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  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sky have been marvellous in coverage here - no matter what time of day - they're live and on the spot.

    SandraM said:

    Scott_P said:

    In other news, while Sky were live in Paris this morning broadcasting explosions and gunfire, the BBC were showing the status of London tube services, followed by the local weather...

    You forgot to mention the BBC interview with Duran Duran.
    I have CNN, BBC World News and Fox News on split screen. Occasionally Fox will go to 'our sister network' Sky News for a report.
    I have been sticking with France24 throughout
    I don't have that option.
    They livestream on Youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/user/france24english
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 18
    Pulpstar said:

    Sky have been marvellous in coverage here - no matter what time of day - they're live and on the spot.

    SandraM said:

    Scott_P said:

    In other news, while Sky were live in Paris this morning broadcasting explosions and gunfire, the BBC were showing the status of London tube services, followed by the local weather...

    You forgot to mention the BBC interview with Duran Duran.
    ITV's report last night after the football with Tom Bradby was excellent I thought. Made it clear that Putin was explicitly going after IS now for the jet.
    I caught it for the first time last night since its change of anchor / format and I thought it worked well (at least last night). When they said they were going chatty, I thought that equated dumbing down further, but actually it gave some interesting insights.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @benglaze: EXCL: Ken Livingstone says Kevan Jones, who has battled depression, is "disturbed" and "should see his GP": https://t.co/cG5gE9Hizz
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    edited 2015 18

    Steven Swinford ‏@Steven_Swinford 23 mins23 minutes ago

    Maria Eagle learned of Ken Livingstone's Trident appointment on Twitter and is so angry she is considering position she is hoping that one of her aides putting a resignation threat out there might compel Corbyn to backtrack which she will immediately retract if her bluff is called
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12002379/Jeremy-Corbyn-ally-Ken-Livingstone-to-lead-Labours-Trident-review.html

    Th new politics.

    There. Corrected it.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Scott_P said:

    @benglaze: EXCL: Ken Livingstone says Kevan Jones, who has battled depression, is "disturbed" and "should see his GP": https://t.co/cG5gE9Hizz

    Welcome to the new brand of politics.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Scott_P said:

    @benglaze: EXCL: Ken Livingstone says Kevan Jones, who has battled depression, is "disturbed" and "should see his GP": https://t.co/cG5gE9Hizz

    Welcome to the new brand of politics.
    For those who thought this might turn out like A Very British Coup are going to need a huge amount of counselling when they are forced to accept that it has turned into a very sad version of a cheap Whitehall farce
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    If it wasn't that people have pitifully short memories REMAIN would be nailed on certainties.
    I'm sure there's never been a time when European solidarity has been as solid.

    For those on the 'remain' side it's time to consolidate.

    It must be clear to everyone how vital European solidarity is now we have this common enemy

    What solidarity? I will start with one rather large European nation and supposedly a key ally of France.

    Germany.

    The historical context is that the present European arrangements were supposed to prevent France and Germany from going to war again. They have had their tiffs but it seems unlikely that the EU is now needed to serve that purpose. I would suggest that there is consequently diminishing common ground between France and Germany, immigration being the most serious. Who knows where that will take us?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Livingstone showing himself to be a prize piece of human refuse.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ken-livingstone-blasts-labour-rival-6853409

    Good of the Mirror to remind its readers about Livingstone's version of kinder, gentler politics.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Got to love the BBC..

    "There are Africans, Algerians, Indians, Chinese, Turkish and many more people from different backgrounds living in the area. The majority of the population is in “sans-papiers” status - meaning they do not yet have a legal status and an ID which would allow them to find a job."

    That would be long hand for there a lot of illegal immigrants living there.

    'Home grown' now seems to also mean they came here is immigrants more than 18 months ago. It's like calling a banana on sale in Aldi as 'homegrown', because it has been on a shelf in Britain for four days of its ten month life.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    edited 2015 18
    Apparently she loves animals, Israel & UKIP, prime PB material I'd have thought.

    https://twitter.com/TheMockneyRebel/status/666778128451268608
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @thinkdefence: Meanwhile, at the Labour Party Defence Review HQ https://t.co/JzlTUKOF2x
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    This is the France 24 internet link - works in the UK, but not sure about elsewhere:

    http://www.france24.com/fr/tv-en-direct-chaine-live
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    CD13 said:

    An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.

    The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.

    ...
    ..
    I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.

    The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.

    Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
    Dear oh dear. He will not need nominating. He is the incumbent.
    But let us suppose the parliamentary party did find some subterfuge to remove him, what effect will that have on the membership? They will go ape. Labour are split. Who would replace Corbyn? The normal factionalism within Labour would only return. Labour dug themselves a big hole and then fell in it.

    Corbyn needs to stay until 2020 because the Stop the War Coalition' need him there so they can deselect their opponents in the PLP and get their own people in. Corbyn was not elected by the PLP. Him being leader is none of their business. If the PLP is down to 200 the STWC do not care. They have a golden opportunity to control the labour party.
    Is the incumbent leader automatically renominated, or does it require 35 MPs to put their names to a form?
    It seems pretty clear to me by the wording and the logic behind it that the incumbent does not need to get nominations, he is the leader. If someone is successful in mounting a challenge against the incumbent then good luck to all parties concerned, but the leader does not have to stand down just because 35 MPs ask him to.
    Of course it would be the best thing all round for Labour if this were not true because Corbyn would not get 35 nominations, not even 25 probably. However even this would leave Labour riven with splits.
    Plus of course even though Corbyn has set a pretty low bar for any future leader whoever it is, when you look at the likely prospects he/she is going to be pretty useless. All of a sudden Hilary Benn is touted as a political genius instead of a regulation by the book loopy lefty.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Thanks, but Fox News, CNN and BBC World News is enough on one screen

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sky have been marvellous in coverage here - no matter what time of day - they're live and on the spot.

    SandraM said:

    Scott_P said:

    In other news, while Sky were live in Paris this morning broadcasting explosions and gunfire, the BBC were showing the status of London tube services, followed by the local weather...

    You forgot to mention the BBC interview with Duran Duran.
    I have CNN, BBC World News and Fox News on split screen. Occasionally Fox will go to 'our sister network' Sky News for a report.
    I have been sticking with France24 throughout
    I don't have that option.
    They livestream on Youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/user/france24english
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 18
    I wonder how Jezza's hug a Jahadi routine would have gone down this morning in Paris?

    Come out. Please come out. There is no need for violence. We can have a nice chat. I have got some freshly baked croissants. I know your angry, but maybe we can sit down and discuss our differences. There is a super cafe around the corner, they do a lovely soya latte...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Someone is going to resign today;
    https://t.co/FnEybJazne
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    dr_spyn said:

    Livingstone showing himself to be a prize piece of human refuse.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ken-livingstone-blasts-labour-rival-6853409

    Good of the Mirror to remind its readers about Livingstone's version of kinder, gentler politics.

    I didn't think it possible that my opinion of him could sink any lower, but I was wrong ...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As Tissue Price put it yesterday:

    "I can't go on like this."
    "That's what you think."
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    I wonder how Jezza's hug a Jahadi routine would have gone down this morning in Paris?

    Come out. Please come out. There is no need for violence. We can have a nice chat. I have got some freshly baked croissants. I know your angry, but maybe we can sit down and discuss our differences. There is a super cafe around the corner, they do a lovely soya latte...

    There is no such thing as a nice soya latte!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @thinkdefence: Meanwhile, at the Labour Party Defence Review HQ https://t.co/JzlTUKOF2x

    Arf - Almost as laughable as appointing Ken Livingstone as co-chair Labour’s defence review.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Scott_P said:

    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX

    not global warming?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    Off topic, I think this is crazy:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34851718

    There's no way replacement nuclear power will be in place for 2025. We're heading for brownouts and a much greater dependency on the import of gas, with all the volality that implies.

    We import the vast bulk of our coal, anyway. (UK production was just 11.5m tonnes in 2014.) So, we're not really any more dependent on imports.

    The prices of natural gas and coal are highly correlated - because they are both just stores of energy and are quite fungible.

    However, natural gas currently trades at a discount to coal, and that is likely to continue for some time, because there is a lot of new LNG capacity coming on stream around the world - Gorgan, Wheatstone, Gladstone, Mozambique, plus the US and (possibly) Canada. This will likely double the amount of LNG available to the UK in the next decade, and will also make the political make-up of potential vendors much more stable.

    Furthermore, for power station operators, natural gas is much more attractive than coal generally: capital and maintenance costs are lower, thermal efficiencies are higher, and power stations can be turned on and off quickly. By comparison, a coal plant take a long time to get up to full power, and can't be easily turned fully on or off. (Indeed, coal plants are typically operating at capacity or not at all. This means they are ill-suited to run as peaking power, which is a problem when they are more expensive on a MWh basis than natural gas.)

    We are not likely to have brown outs, because you can order an Open Cycle Gas Turbine from any one of a number of vendors, and get delivery next July or August. (A Combined Cycle Gas Turbine is a significantly more expensive proposition, requires a lot more space - and planning - and the lead times from Siemens, or GE are a lot longer.)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JGForsyth: Think patience of moderate Labour MPs on the front bench is going to snap very soon, Ken is adding personal unpleasantness to loony leftery
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 18
    Scott_P said:

    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX

    This hole he is digging must be so deep now, he might be reaching the earth's core.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    To think Jez specially appointed a shadow cabinet minister for mental health.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    CD13 said:

    An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.

    The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.

    It seems to me that there was a certain degree of coordination in yesterday's questions designed to undermine Jezza. I think they're probably waiting for a trigger event to attempt a coup. Could be the Syria vote, or losing Oldham, but after yesterday I do think the end is likely to come quite soon. Certainly hope so.

    I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.

    The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.

    Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
    Dear oh dear. He will not need nominating. He is the incumbent.
    But let us suppose the parliamentary party did find some subterfuge to remove him, what effect will that have on the membership? They will go ape. Labour are split. Who would replace Corbyn? The normal factionalism within Labour would only return. Labour dug themselves a big hole and then fell in it.

    Corbyn needs to stay until 2020 because the Stop the War Coalition' need him there so they can deselect their opponents in the PLP and get their own people in. Corbyn was not elected by the PLP. Him being leader is none of their business. If the PLP is down to 200 the STWC do not care. They have a golden opportunity to control the labour party.
    Is the incumbent leader automatically renominated, or does it require 35 MPs to put their names to a form?
    That is apparently unclear from the wording, hence my point 1. It hasn't mattered previously.
    Think this is an issue you can go around in circles over.

    If he's on the ballot, he'll probably win again.
    If he's not, then that'll split the party.

    Removing Corbyn if he doesn't want to go is not going to be an easy thing at all.
    So Jihadi Jez will be everyone's favourite Aunt Sally for ever!! What fun!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: PMQs shortly - Corbyn already having a tough day, if he was looking for a way of winding MPs up, giving Ken L defence job was certainly it
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: Think patience of moderate Labour MPs on the front bench is going to snap very soon, Ken is adding personal unpleasantness to loony leftery

    What are they going to do? Scrunch up sheets of paper and hurl them angrily into the wastepaper basket?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    This is the Corbynite defence

    @tariqibnusiyad: @benglaze @MirrorPolitics what is wrong with telling sick person to see medical help ??
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Police break down the door of a Catholic church looking for a bunch of radical islamists. What's wrong with this picture?

    Also Saint-Denis has an "office de tourisme". Must be run by optimists.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    MP_SE said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    If it wasn't that people have pitifully short memories REMAIN would be nailed on certainties.
    I'm sure there's never been a time when European solidarity has been as solid.

    For those on the 'remain' side it's time to consolidate.

    It must be clear to everyone how vital European solidarity is now we have this common enemy

    What solidarity? I will start with one rather large European nation and supposedly a key ally of France.

    Germany.

    I think people are confusing EU solidarity with normal human emotions such as compassion which is something felt globally. The Little European Unioner mentality can be witnessed here this morning.
    The BOOers were saying how these attacks would help Leave. Just pointing out (and borne out in this poll) that many feel the opposite.

    I agree. Safety in numbers?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Tim_B said:

    Police break down the door of a Catholic church looking for a bunch of radical islamists. What's wrong with this picture?

    Also Saint-Denis has an "office de tourisme". Must be run by optimists.

    To be fair Saint-Denis does get a lot of tourists. Is the venue for a lot of French national football and rugby team matches.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Random_Bod: @JeremyCorbyn4PM OK, that's it. As a life-long @UKLabour voter, this is when I vote Tory despite £12bn benefit cuts https://t.co/GE1jigqjMr
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,876

    MP_SE said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    If it wasn't that people have pitifully short memories REMAIN would be nailed on certainties.
    I'm sure there's never been a time when European solidarity has been as solid.

    For those on the 'remain' side it's time to consolidate.

    It must be clear to everyone how vital European solidarity is now we have this common enemy

    What solidarity? I will start with one rather large European nation and supposedly a key ally of France.

    Germany.

    I think people are confusing EU solidarity with normal human emotions such as compassion which is something felt globally. The Little European Unioner mentality can be witnessed here this morning.
    The BOOers were saying how these attacks would help Leave. Just pointing out (and borne out in this poll) that many feel the opposite.

    I agree. Safety in numbers?
    Yougov have another poll (pre-attack) with Leave 41% to Remain 39%

    It was taken on 28th - 29th October

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/6oror7wfpr/YG-Trackers-Europe-Referendum-171115.pdf
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    One can't help but admire the thoroughness with which Jeremy Corbyn is setting out to destroy the Labour Party. Anyone who thought he would be ineffectual because he's getting on a bit will have to rethink.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 18
    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: Think patience of moderate Labour MPs on the front bench is going to snap very soon, Ken is adding personal unpleasantness to loony leftery

    Yeah right. If any one them actually has the balls to go, then what?

    Remember what happened to James Purnell.

    (Those that do leave in a huff, will be doing Corbyn a favour by self-purging).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740

    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: Think patience of moderate Labour MPs on the front bench is going to snap very soon, Ken is adding personal unpleasantness to loony leftery

    What are they going to do? Scrunch up sheets of paper and hurl them angrily into the wastepaper basket?
    Look Labour removed three time election winner Blair, surely they'll do the same to a loser like Corbyn?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Tim_B said:

    Police break down the door of a Catholic church looking for a bunch of radical islamists. What's wrong with this picture?

    Also Saint-Denis has an "office de tourisme". Must be run by optimists.

    To be fair Saint-Denis does get a lot of tourists. Is the venue for a lot of French national football and rugby team matches.
    And the rather fine basilica:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_St_Denis
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,876

    Sean T nailed it when he said that images of Jonestown came to mind, following the election of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour Leader.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    I wonder what Cameron thinks about having Turkey in the EU these days?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,354

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    So if the Nats white paper was known to be fibs by the writers, will the LDs be launching 56 suits against them as this clearly swayed the GE results in Scotland ?

    @RuthDavidsonMSP: The SNP's case for independence was a fraud - so says the guy who drafted the white paper. My response....
    https://t.co/AVEz6o4ffN
    Davidson is someone who needs to be in Westminster = a talent like that shouldn't be squandered on a Parish Council
    The lack of political talent in Holyrood outside the upper echelons of the SNP is a major part of the problem so she can't be spared.

    But that article understates the dishonesty of the SNP. Dundee was covered with posters like this: http://www.arcofprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/75004449_poverty.png

    Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Apparently they do it all the time

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-victims-but-it-was-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: #BBC also says it has found £10m of savings by 'reducing management layers': are we abt to see big sweep out of senior executives #BBCcuts

    *cough*Yentob*cough*

    But that will only account for about 10%
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PippaCrerar: Ken Livingstone tells me he was not aware that Kevan Jones suffered from depression - but refuses to retract his remarks.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Nothing will happen to Ken Livingstone over the @KevanJonesMP comments. He's a Corbynite. Corbynites can do/say whatever they like now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Apparently they do it all the time

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-victims-but-it-was-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html
    About as believable as excuse as the mother of one of the suicide bombers claiming he never intended to blow himself up, he just got a bit stressed.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Floater said:

    Maria Eagle not happy re Ken Livingstone - heard about appointment on twitter!!

    LOL

    New kinder politics indeed.

    It's "kinda"!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Police break down the door of a Catholic church looking for a bunch of radical islamists. What's wrong with this picture?

    Also Saint-Denis has an "office de tourisme". Must be run by optimists.

    To be fair Saint-Denis does get a lot of tourists. Is the venue for a lot of French national football and rugby team matches.
    That's the Stade de France. It does have an impressive basilica too. It also has history going back many hundreds of years. But today it looks rough.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362

    To think Jez specially appointed a shadow cabinet minister for mental health.

    Livingstone didn't get the memo...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX

    not global warming?
    https://twitter.com/andreatantaros/status/666422512151085061
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    In other news, while Sky were live in Paris this morning broadcasting explosions and gunfire, the BBC were showing the status of London tube services, followed by the local weather...

    BBC World News has been covering the raid quite well. The were the first to report that police dog Diesel had been killed.
    What a scoop!!!!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Their very own China Syndrome at this rate.

    Scott_P said:

    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX

    This hole he is digging must be so deep now, he might be reaching the earth's core.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    edited 2015 18
    It is simply not tenable for Labour to be led by a leader of the parliamentary party in the House of Commons, where the real political power is exercised, who is opposed by 90% of its members.

    So either Corbyn will cease to be their leader in any real sense (in that he actually leads his MPs - instead he will be told by a surrogate leader, or ignored) or a new party will be formed.

    The third 'trying to make it work' option is no longer a go'er, but I expect we'll have a lot more fracturing and dishevelling to go before we get there.

    What it means, of course, is the effective ending of the Labour Party as an effective political force in the UK. At least in its current form.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    It is simply not tenable for Labour to be led by a leader of the parliamentary party in the House of Commons, where the real political power is exercised, who is opposed by 90% of its members.

    So either Corbyn will cease to be their leader in any real sense (in that he actually leads his MPs - instead he will be told by a surrogate leader, or ignored) or a new party will be formed.

    The third 'trying to make it work' option is no longer a go'er, but I expect we'll have a lot more fracturing and dishevelling to go before we get there.

    What it means, of course, is the effective ending of the Labour Party as an effective political force in the UK. At least in its current form.

    Or:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12002530/Jeremy-Corbyn-will-purge-Labour-of-troublesome-MPs-without-getting-blood-on-his-hands.html

    That, I think, is what the Corbynites are ultimately aiming for.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    watford30 said:

    PMQs will be good today if Corbyn has any sense.

    Cameron: Corbyn won't shoot to kill.

    Corbyn: at least I'm honest, what are you doing?

    You do realise that you sound like one of the enemy within, continually denigrating the armed forces, government and security services for not doing a good enough job with poorly maintained equipment?
    Thanks for attempting to put words in my mouth.

    This govt has cut spending on both the armed forces and police, something I absolutely disagree with. The poorly maintained equipment is purely down to this govt. And now the chump is sitting on his hands and singing le Marseillaise.

    I wonder if the pb tories think the late Mrs Thatcher would have done the same.

    As I said earlier we spend the fifth highest amount on the military in the world and as others have said the active equipment is very well maintained and the active personnel very well trained. Keep denigrating them all you like but that's the truth.
    Correct.
    Mr Blackburn should remember that the Falklands were invaded under Mrs Thatcher. The memory he invokes is one of determination to correct her mistake. Mrs Thatcher deserves credit for that and for persisting with the confrontation with the soviet union over nuclear disarmament. But its not the credit he tries to pretend it is.
    You have to love the tory spin here. Let's be clear, Thatcher acted firmly and decisively and was respected for it.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:
    Sean_F said:


    Sean T nailed it when he said that images of Jonestown came to mind, following the election of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour Leader.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    edited 2015 18

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Apparently they do it all the time

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-victims-but-it-was-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html
    I think this commentor has found the nail/head:

    The fans are predominantly nationalist, Sunni Muslims who support Erdogans Islamism and to a large degree ISIS who is their proxy fighting against their Nemesis - the Kurds.

    What people fail to mention is the Ankara bombings a month ago targeted Kurds - there was a minutes silence then too, which was also booed!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited 2015 18
    Anyone who hasn't read 'Messiah' by Gore Vidal in which a new branch of Christianity is formed whose basic precept is the glorification of death should read it. It's disturbingly precient considering it was written in the 50's (and a very good read)
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Mr. Cide, the grid idea is silly.

    F1's current problems are many. The aero issue may be reduced due to new wider front wings and narrower rear wings. Finance and governance need sorting. More than half the grid's struggling, and that's unacceptable. They also need to stop shedding good circuits for lucrative but tedious processional street circuits.

    The engine gaps are excessive. If Ferrari can't compete next year, rules may need to be changed (there's some talk of a 'neutral' engine in 2017, but that may be just a negotiating tactic by Ecclestone and the FIA).

    Your post looks like it's based on an assumption that I'm interested. I don't know where you got that idea from.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Will be interested in Bad Al's next tweet re the new kinder politics from dingosaur Ken Livingstone.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    So if the Nats white paper was known to be fibs by the writers, will the LDs be launching 56 suits against them as this clearly swayed the GE results in Scotland ?

    @RuthDavidsonMSP: The SNP's case for independence was a fraud - so says the guy who drafted the white paper. My response....
    https://t.co/AVEz6o4ffN
    Davidson is someone who needs to be in Westminster = a talent like that shouldn't be squandered on a Parish Council
    The lack of political talent in Holyrood outside the upper echelons of the SNP is a major part of the problem so she can't be spared.

    But that article understates the dishonesty of the SNP. Dundee was covered with posters like this: http://www.arcofprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/75004449_poverty.png

    Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
    Child Poverty is a massive poverty mongering industry. The child poverty action group, who have a very chequered past which i shall put to the side for the moment, act as little more than crooks with the stats. There are four agreed measures of child poverty (or there was until the government got fed up and told them to go and screw themselves). Absolute poverty including household costs, absolute poverty excluding household costs, relative poverty including household costs and relative poverty excluding household costs.

    On three of four of those measures, over the last six to seven years we have seen dramatic reductions, and there was reductions in the previous years as well. Child Poverty it was claimed by the IFS was going to rise dramatically, but it didnt, it reduced.

    At no point on the production of the stats (stats which CPAG was instrumental in setting up) showing these dramatic reductions as the CPAG press released how pleased it is about the reductions, but has some concern about the one area increased.

    They just *ignore* it. And instead press release about the devastating impact of (insert current labour talking point here) XYZ has resulted in more children living in poverty, by picking out the one stat that showed a deterioration.

    Mendacious, deceitful poverty mongers.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Dave wants Turkey to join EU
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    There would be some poetic justice if the person who finally kills off the Corbyn leadership is Ken Livingstone
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,248
    Scott_P said:

    @andrewspoooner: Jeremy Corbyn clarifies that the real danger comes from the British police and not ISIS. https://t.co/RgneCSwxjX

    That comment of Jezza's would be ok (careful use of police powers, etc...) if he didn't have any baggage and could for one minute resist the temptation to relive his finest students' union moments.

    But he does and he can't.

    His subtext will be understood by his old Troops Out mates and his current Stop the War ones as being anti-state. His own state, the UK.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Cide, you responded to a post about F1 with a suggestion to improve it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: "He was rude about me, I was rude about him, he needs to get over it" Ken Livingstone on comments about Kevan Jones
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCEleanorG: Kevan Jones tells @carolewalkercw he finds comments made about him by Ken Livingstone "gravely offensive."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    It is simply not tenable for Labour to be led by a leader of the parliamentary party in the House of Commons, where the real political power is exercised, who is opposed by 90% of its members.

    So either Corbyn will cease to be their leader in any real sense (in that he actually leads his MPs - instead he will be told by a surrogate leader, or ignored) or a new party will be formed.

    The third 'trying to make it work' option is no longer a go'er, but I expect we'll have a lot more fracturing and dishevelling to go before we get there.

    What it means, of course, is the effective ending of the Labour Party as an effective political force in the UK. At least in its current form.

    Or:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12002530/Jeremy-Corbyn-will-purge-Labour-of-troublesome-MPs-without-getting-blood-on-his-hands.html

    That, I think, is what the Corbynites are ultimately aiming for.
    If that does occur, or looks like it is occurring, that should be the trigger for the new parliamentary party to be formed.

    They will know that (due to the Labour brand and FPTP system) that probably means a slaughtering in GE2020 but they will at least get funding, donors and an alternative national platform for the next few years.

    The only other option is to sit there meekly and loudly protest whilst being shot in turn.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Apparently they do it all the time

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-victims-but-it-was-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html
    About as believable as excuse as the mother of one of the suicide bombers claiming he never intended to blow himself up, he just got a bit stressed.
    Someone on my facebook feed claims that those seven hundred British citizens that the security services believe went to fight for ISIS in Syria (of which 350 have returned and are walking around freely) were only there to offer medical assistance and help.

    She seriously wrote that yesterday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    It's a good job France didn't have a scheduled friendly in Ankara last night.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 1 min1 minute ago

    Livingstone refuses to apologise FOUR times on LBC re Kevan Jones comments. "He was rude about me, I was rude back..he needs to get over it"

    Charmer...
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,368
    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    CD13 said:

    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?

    There is going to be months more of this.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited 2015 18
    DavidL said:

    Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.

    As Ruth says:

    THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.

    I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and
passionately disagree with them.

    For many, the goal of
 independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.


    And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I've lost my compass on what's a Bad Day for Jezza these days.
    CD13 said:

    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited 2015 18
    It's like a blackhole suddenly opening up.

    Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 28s28 seconds ago
    Chris Leslie tells me: "Ken surely cannot now remain as chair of this defence review, let alone on Labour's NEC, after such crass comments."

    Toby Perkins ‏@tobyperkinsmp 2m2 minutes ago
    Toby Perkins Retweeted Neil Coyle
    Appalling thing to say, the fact that he's refused to retract even worse. Toby Perkins added,
    Neil Coyle @coyleneil
    Hope Ken Livingstone big enough to apologise asap for offence caused over mental health slur. Unnecessary distraction in already tough time
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Mr. Cide, you responded to a post about F1 with a suggestion to improve it.

    A joke I'm afraid - obviously a bad one. In my opinion it's beyond improvement.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Good move http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3323372/Paris-terror-attacks-British-Muslim-groups-advert-unreservedly-condemning-violence.html
    British Muslim groups take out advert unreservedly condemning terror attacks in Paris 'with one voice' and praising bravery of security guard who risked his life

    Muslim Council of Britain placed ad on behalf of around 300 local mosques
    The message condemns attacks and says that Islam 'forbids terrorism'
    Advert points out that Muslims helped to protect the public during Friday night's violence and praises Stade de France security guard
    The vast majority of Muslims have expressed horror at the events
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 1 min1 minute ago

    Livingstone refuses to apologise FOUR times on LBC re Kevan Jones comments. "He was rude about me, I was rude back..he needs to get over it"

    Charmer...

    Jesus. Is everyone a f***ing victim now? "ive got depression you cant see mean things about me" "Im transgender, i am beautiful and empowering".

    Im with Ken, grow the f**k up.... Of course i would have more sympathy if Ken wasnt at the vanguard of identity politics and grievance feeding for his entire political life.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,013

    It is simply not tenable for Labour to be led by a leader of the parliamentary party in the House of Commons, where the real political power is exercised, who is opposed by 90% of its members.

    So either Corbyn will cease to be their leader in any real sense (in that he actually leads his MPs - instead he will be told by a surrogate leader, or ignored) or a new party will be formed.

    The third 'trying to make it work' option is no longer a go'er, but I expect we'll have a lot more fracturing and dishevelling to go before we get there.

    What it means, of course, is the effective ending of the Labour Party as an effective political force in the UK. At least in its current form.

    Or:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12002530/Jeremy-Corbyn-will-purge-Labour-of-troublesome-MPs-without-getting-blood-on-his-hands.html

    That, I think, is what the Corbynites are ultimately aiming for.
    He can't purge them. The most that he and his acolytes can give them is a deferred sentence of exile. It's all very well setting them up for deselection for 2020 but in the meantime they'll still be in the Commons, during which time they'll be fighting for their political lives and the future of their cause and, perhaps, their party (whether it would result in a breakaway or an attempted counter-coup would depend on whether they still see it as their party).
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    The problem with Labour (one of many) is that you get people like Livingstone hanging aroud like a bad smell.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    CD13 said:

    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?

    There is going to be months more of this.
    Some of his problems are bad politics bad image and being too dim to be clear on his views. That could change. However he is what he is - a loopy lefty. His popularity and his success or failure will be whatever that brings.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2015 18

    Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 1 min1 minute ago

    Livingstone refuses to apologise FOUR times on LBC re Kevan Jones comments. "He was rude about me, I was rude back..he needs to get over it"

    Charmer...

    Kevan Jones was a member of the special Select Committee set up to scrutinise the Bill that became the Armed Forces Act 2011. He was also a member of the Public Bill Committee for the Defence Reform Act 2014. Jones knows his onions, so the new co-chair of the Defence Review will attempt to undermine or possibly purge him from the party.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    @janemerrick23: So when are Labour MPs going to form a Stop The Cor coalition?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    CD13 said:

    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?

    Prime Minister's Questions in half an hour. The nadir may yet lie ahead.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Cide, you pessimist. Bad years are often followed by good ones (cf 2011 and 2012).

    It's easy for jokes, especially sarcasm, to be hard to convey or detect over the interweb.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @paulwaugh · 41s41 seconds ago
    Jeremy Corbyn has asked @ken4london 'to apologise straight away' to Kevan Jones.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Corbyn siad Ken should apologise "straight away". He had the chance. He didn't. So now's what Corbyn going to do.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 1 min1 minute ago

    Jeremy Corbyn has asked @ken4london 'to apologise straight away' to Kevan Jones.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Toby Perkins ‏@tobyperkinsmp 2m2 minutes ago
    Toby Perkins Retweeted Neil Coyle
    Appalling thing to say, the fact that he's refused to retract even worse. Toby Perkins added,
    Neil Coyle @coyleneil
    Hope Ken Livingstone big enough to apologise asap for offence caused over mental health slur. Unnecessary distraction in already tough time

    I love the phrase 'unnecessary distraction' in this sort of context. It's like saying that a massive punch-up at a wedding, with guests hitting each other over the head with chairs and champagne bottles, is an unnecessary distraction from the celebration.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,248
    CD13 said:

    It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?

    surely there is a PB competition here to see who can come up with the most bizarre next appointment/move by Jezza.

    Ofc prior to today 20% of entries would have involved Ken..
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    notme said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!

    What an utter disgrace.

    Apparently they do it all the time

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-for-paris-victims-but-it-was-not-a-mark-of-disrespect-claim-a6738741.html
    About as believable as excuse as the mother of one of the suicide bombers claiming he never intended to blow himself up, he just got a bit stressed.
    Someone on my facebook feed claims that those seven hundred British citizens that the security services believe went to fight for ISIS in Syria (of which 350 have returned and are walking around freely) were only there to offer medical assistance and help.

    She seriously wrote that yesterday.
    Do you never perhaps wonder why you bother with facebook? Is there really any point to it?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @lucianaberger: My response to @ken4london's mental health related comments https://t.co/YyRMzpaQm0
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:
    So what do they know that Cameron doesn't?

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Scott_P said:

    @lucianaberger: My response to @ken4london's mental health related comments https://t.co/YyRMzpaQm0

    "Mr Livingstone" - Ouch!
This discussion has been closed.