politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn: Britain’s first X Factor leader?

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

RE the Matt cartoon and the female barrister. she really is a charmer isn't she.. and Proudman isn't her "real " name

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/11243593/Matt-cartoons.html?frame=3437242


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11859971/Sexism-row-barrister-Charlotte-Proudman-wrote-vitriolic-email-to-her-elderly-grandmother-before-her-death.html

She should stand for the Labour Party, I am sure Harriet Harman would propose her.

If she changed her name by deedpoll then Proudman is her real name. Interesting that her PhD at Cambridge is in FGM. It would be useful to have some barristers who are versed in the subject.

She rather overreacted, and should have given the guy the brush off rather than spread it over Facebook, but doesn't deserve the twittermob lynching. Indeed does anyone deserve the twittermob?

Ok it is her real name.. I did put it in inverted commas.

Quite frankly I think you are far too sympathetic. The guy she slagged off didn't deserve what she did to him either It was deliberate and it was she who took to twitter IIRC.. If you put it out there, expect not everyone to agree with you.

Twittermob lynchings are rarely edifying. Carter-Smith does seem to be a bit inappropriate, and one wonders how he treats women generally.

You are missing the point. If she had not put it out on twitter she wouldn't have got what she received. Putting it on twitter, she hope to humiliate him. What she got back was entirely her own fault and no one else's.

He should not have said what he did, it was foolish in the modern world, but what she did was infinitely more deliberate and nasty., in fact really nasty.

Not long to go now ...

Can we have any guesses about who the BBC and Sky will have in their studios to give instant reactions? I assume Harman'll be there in person.

The words spoken in the first few minutes might help set the tone.

Mr. Saddened, surely this is the Legacy of Miliband?

On the plus side for Labour, after Corbyn they must arrest the trend of getting successively more useless leaders.

saddened said:

Roger said:

David Kendrick

"Last night, on Channel 4 news, Cameron was being mocked for his lack of support for the 'refugees' (not migrants). Nothing new there.

It was given a bizarre twist, when one of the guests was a Jewish woman, nearing 90, who came to this country on kindertransport in 1939. The not-so-subtle point was how differently refugees were treated then. She tried to emote with the best of them, but her 'virtue signalling' was really pretty ordinary.'

This is becoming the humanitarian crisis of our lifetime. The UK's reputation for humanitarianism is being trashed and I mean trashed. Last night I heard the UK being compared unfavourably with Hungary.

Meanwhile our fat f***ing blob of a Prime Minister is watching cricket......

Would you prefer it if he was helming a leaky rubber dinghy, off the coast of Turkey.

Other Tories have been sighted in the Med ....

Eric Pickles was last seen mimicking a large inflatable, supposedly whilst on holiday. Indeed if he teamed up with Nicholas Soames they'd make an awesome flotilla and put the people smugglers out of business in a trice..

Mr. Abroad, either would be a disturbing development.

JackW said:

saddened said:

Roger said:

David Kendrick

"Last night, on Channel 4 news, Cameron was being mocked for his lack of support for the 'refugees' (not migrants). Nothing new there.

It was given a bizarre twist, when one of the guests was a Jewish woman, nearing 90, who came to this country on kindertransport in 1939. The not-so-subtle point was how differently refugees were treated then. She tried to emote with the best of them, but her 'virtue signalling' was really pretty ordinary.'

This is becoming the humanitarian crisis of our lifetime. The UK's reputation for humanitarianism is being trashed and I mean trashed. Last night I heard the UK being compared unfavourably with Hungary.

Meanwhile our fat f***ing blob of a Prime Minister is watching cricket......

Would you prefer it if he was helming a leaky rubber dinghy, off the coast of Turkey.

Other Tories have been sighted in the Med ....

Eric Pickles was last seen mimicking a large inflatable, supposedly whilst on holiday. Indeed if he teamed up with Nicholas Soames they'd make an awesome flotilla and put the people smugglers out of business in a trice..

Watch out for Norwegians with harpoons.

Icarus said:

Is there a book on what time the result will be leaked?

Was the last one leaked early? I don't remember it being leaked...

JosiasJessop said:

Not long to go now ...

Can we have any guesses about who the BBC and Sky will have in their studios to give instant reactions?

Owen Jones
Owen Jones
Owen Jones

Why this jumped-up sixth former debater is always on the telly, beats me. Still, epitomises the Labour party really. Carry on imploding.

Corbyn is indeed Britain's first X Factor leader , but the Yanks beat us to it with the election of the ''American Idol'' and preening poseur , Barak Hussein Obama !...both are symptomatic of a virtual reality created by the entertainment industry , merely the intertwining of Hollywood and politics
I think it was Lenin who first recognised the potential when he claimed that'' Cinema is the greatest propaganda device ever created ''
The real problem for Corbyn is that the vacuous TV watchers have a fickle short attention span and that failed talent show contestants are quickly forgotten ...I expect a short honeymoon period for Corbyn before he is laughed and ridiculed off the stage

Jonathan said:

JackW said:

saddened said:

Roger said:

David Kendrick

"Last night, on Channel 4 news, Cameron was being mocked for his lack of support for the 'refugees' (not migrants). Nothing new there.

It was given a bizarre twist, when one of the guests was a Jewish woman, nearing 90, who came to this country on kindertransport in 1939. The not-so-subtle point was how differently refugees were treated then. She tried to emote with the best of them, but her 'virtue signalling' was really pretty ordinary.'

This is becoming the humanitarian crisis of our lifetime. The UK's reputation for humanitarianism is being trashed and I mean trashed. Last night I heard the UK being compared unfavourably with Hungary.

Meanwhile our fat f***ing blob of a Prime Minister is watching cricket......

Would you prefer it if he was helming a leaky rubber dinghy, off the coast of Turkey.

Other Tories have been sighted in the Med ....

Eric Pickles was last seen mimicking a large inflatable, supposedly whilst on holiday. Indeed if he teamed up with Nicholas Soames they'd make an awesome flotilla and put the people smugglers out of business in a trice..

Watch out for Norwegians with harpoons.

Well quite.

I understand Eric Pickles also cancelled a Japanese coastal holiday over concerns that their whalers would be unable to differentiate a swimming former Cabinet minister from their normal catch.

Estobar said:

Roger said:

David Kendrick



This is becoming the humanitarian crisis of our lifetime. The UK's reputation for humanitarianism is being trashed and I mean trashed. Last night I heard the UK being compared unfavourably with Hungary.

Meanwhile our fat f***ing blob of a Prime Minister is watching cricket......

Agreed. The Tories have come out of this appallingly, dragging down Britain.

In who's eyes?

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

RE the Matt cartoon and the female barrister. she really is a charmer isn't she.. and Proudman isn't her "real " name

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/11243593/Matt-cartoons.html?frame=3437242


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11859971/Sexism-row-barrister-Charlotte-Proudman-wrote-vitriolic-email-to-her-elderly-grandmother-before-her-death.html

She should stand for the Labour Party, I am sure Harriet Harman would propose her.

If she changed her name by deedpoll then Proudman is her real name. Interesting that her PhD at Cambridge is in FGM. It would be useful to have some barristers who are versed in the subject.

She rather overreacted, and should have given the guy the brush off rather than spread it over Facebook, but doesn't deserve the twittermob lynching. Indeed does anyone deserve the twittermob?

Ok it is her real name.. I did put it in inverted commas.

Quite frankly I think you are far too sympathetic. The guy she slagged off didn't deserve what she did to him either It was deliberate and it was she who took to twitter IIRC.. If you put it out there, expect not everyone to agree with you.

Twittermob lynchings are rarely edifying. Carter-Smith does seem to be a bit inappropriate, and one wonders how he treats women generally.

You are missing the point. If she had not put it out on twitter she wouldn't have got what she received. Putting it on twitter, she hope to humiliate him. What she got back was entirely her own fault and no one else's.

He should not have said what he did, it was foolish in the modern world, but what she did was infinitely more deliberate and nasty., in fact really nasty.

We obviously are not going to agree on this. His behaviour was sleazy and inappropriate and needed to be called out. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour, whether sexist or racist just builds an atmosphere where such "banter" is accepted. It needs to be exposed so others can come forward who are less forthright.

Charlotte Proudman has published some interesting work:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/stop-honour-killing-murder-women-oppresive-patriarchy?CMP=fb_gu

We need such people to raise the banner of equal rights at home and abroad. She is not some feminist moaning over her coffee, she is out there fighting for the rights of women in far more misogynist cultures than our own. Clearly the old goat only ogled her picture and didn't read her CV on Linkedin

Casino_Royale said:

Goodnight all.

The next five years of British political history will be one heck of an experience: we will live through it all day-by-day, and it will be exciting. One day we will look back upon it, and we'll hold those strong memories of it for the rest of our lives.

Future generations will read about it with curiosity and interest. And not a little bit of.. WTF?

FIVE YEARS ?....I doubt it , five months sounds about right ...the Tories are clearly going to present Corbyn as a ''Threat to national security'' with his dubious friends and associates , but also with his present world view ...his questioning of the recent Drone attack on those IS creeps is just merely a hint of what's to come .....I suspect that Corbyn will suffer a devastating expose and be forced to resign

Cromwell said:

Casino_Royale said:

Goodnight all.

The next five years of British political history will be one heck of an experience: we will live through it all day-by-day, and it will be exciting. One day we will look back upon it, and we'll hold those strong memories of it for the rest of our lives.

Future generations will read about it with curiosity and interest. And not a little bit of.. WTF?

FIVE YEARS ?....I doubt it , five months sounds about right ...the Tories are clearly going to present Corbyn as a ''Threat to national security'' with his dubious friends and associates , but also with his present world view ...his questioning of the recent Drone attack on those IS creeps is just merely a hint of what's to come .....I suspect that Corbyn will suffer a devastating expose and be forced to resign

I expect the Parliamentary Labour Party will be a rich source of Corbyn stories (current and past) for the press over the next few months.

Cromwell said:

Casino_Royale said:

Goodnight all.

The next five years of British political history will be one heck of an experience: we will live through it all day-by-day, and it will be exciting. One day we will look back upon it, and we'll hold those strong memories of it for the rest of our lives.

Future generations will read about it with curiosity and interest. And not a little bit of.. WTF?

FIVE YEARS ?....I doubt it , five months sounds about right ...the Tories are clearly going to present Corbyn as a ''Threat to national security'' with his dubious friends and associates , but also with his present world view ...his questioning of the recent Drone attack on those IS creeps is just merely a hint of what's to come .....I suspect that Corbyn will suffer a devastating expose and be forced to resign

Who would Labour elect then? Quite possibly they'd re-elect him. Would you arrest the entire Party membership as traitors?

Estobar said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Estobar, polling shows a vast majority either agree with Cameron's migration stance or want him to take a harder line.

'Do you agree that it's right to take out evil terrorists who are hell bent on destroying The Queen?' Yes or No I'm a moron
'Do you agree that it's right to prevent merciless migrant traffickers from exploiting the poor and helpless?' Yes or No I'm a moron
'Do you think Jeremy Corbyn's appalling left wing Jihadist IRA loving propaganda will be very very bad for Britain and plunge us back to 3-day weeks and pie-eating miners in No.10?' Yes or No I'm a moron

Answers to be completed for the establishment residing in Primpose Hill

Who gave you the right to set the exam paper?

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

RE the Matt cartoon and the female barrister. she really is a charmer isn't she.. and Proudman isn't her "real " name

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/11243593/Matt-cartoons.html?frame=3437242


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11859971/Sexism-row-barrister-Charlotte-Proudman-wrote-vitriolic-email-to-her-elderly-grandmother-before-her-death.html

She should stand for the Labour Party, I am sure Harriet Harman would propose her.

If she eserve the twittermob lynching. Indeed does anyone deserve the twittermob?

Ok it is her real name.. I did put it in inverted commas.

Quite frankly I think you are far too sympathetic. The guy she slagged off didn't deserve what she did to him either It was deliberate and it was she who took to twitter IIRC.. If you put it out there, expect not everyone to agree with you.

Twittermob lynchings are rarely edifying. Carter-Smith does seem to be a bit inappropriate, and one wonders how he treats women generally.

You are missing the point. If she had not put it out on twitter she wouldn't have got what she received. Putting it on twitter, she hope to humiliate him. What she got back was entirely her own fault and no one else's.

He should not have said what he did, it was foolish in the modern world, but what she did was infinitely more deliberate and nasty., in fact really nasty.

We obviously are not going to agree on this. His behaviour was sleazy and inappropriate and needed to be called out. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour, whether sexist or racist just builds an atmosphere where such "banter" is accepted. It needs to be exposed so others can come forward who are less forthright.

Charlotte Proudman has published some interesting work:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/stop-honour-killing-murder-women-oppresive-patriarchy?CMP=fb_gu

We need such people to raise the banner of equal rights at home and abroad. She is not some feminist moaning over her coffee, she is out there fighting for the rights of women in far more misogynist cultures than our own. Clearly the old goat only ogled her picture and didn't read her CV on Linkedin

He seems a bit sleazy but said nothing that he couldn't have said to another man. Complimenting someone on a photo they have chosen to display publicly is not sexist.

She wants a career in the media and this has raised her profile, that's about it

alex. said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Cromwell said:

Casino_Royale said:

Goodnight all.

The next five years of British political history will be one heck of an experience: we will live through it all day-by-day, and it will be exciting. One day we will look back upon it, and we'll hold those strong memories of it for the rest of our lives.

Future generations will read about it with curiosity and interest. And not a little bit of.. WTF?

FIVE YEARS ?....I doubt it , five months sounds about right ...the Tories are clearly going to present Corbyn as a ''Threat to national security'' with his dubious friends and associates , but also with his present world view ...his questioning of the recent Drone attack on those IS creeps is just merely a hint of what's to come .....I suspect that Corbyn will suffer a devastating expose and be forced to resign

Who would Labour elect then? Quite possibly they'd re-elect him. Would you arrest the entire Party membership as traitors?

Actually I imagine the concern is that, having established that they can win, the left find a genuinely attractive candidate who's only handicap is that they are "of the left". Not someone who doesn't want the job, has never had any inclination of wanting the job and does not have 30 years of baggage behind them.

Tsipras type character.

Alex, do you think pacifists are traitors? (I ask because you dodged my last question.)

Morning all.

After months of threatening, is this the day Labour finally jumps off the cliff?

Innocent_Abroad said:

alex. said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Cromwell said:

Casino_Royale said:

Goodnight all.

The next five years of British political history will be one heck of an experience: we will live through it all day-by-day, and it will be exciting. One day we will look back upon it, and we'll hold those strong memories of it for the rest of our lives.

Future generations will read about it with curiosity and interest. And not a little bit of.. WTF?

FIVE YEARS ?....I doubt it , five months sounds about right ...the Tories are clearly going to present Corbyn as a ''Threat to national security'' with his dubious friends and associates , but also with his present world view ...his questioning of the recent Drone attack on those IS creeps is just merely a hint of what's to come .....I suspect that Corbyn will suffer a devastating expose and be forced to resign

Who would Labour elect then? Quite possibly they'd re-elect him. Would you arrest the entire Party membership as traitors?

Actually I imagine the concern is that, having established that they can win, the left find a genuinely attractive candidate who's only handicap is that they are "of the left". Not someone who doesn't want the job, has never had any inclination of wanting the job and does not have 30 years of baggage behind them.

Tsipras type character.

Alex, do you think pacifists are traitors? (I ask because you dodged my last question.)

Not something I've particularly thought about, I don't think so. Although pacifism comes in different forms and for different motivations. Many "pacifists" aren't really pacifists anyway in a literal sense.

I would never want an (ideological) pacifist to be in a position to influence decisions about the deployment of military forces though.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Corbyn = Jedward.

Love it David.

Everybody - See you all tomorrow it should be a momentous day.

Just poor Tory mockery , well below David's normal standards.

alex. said:

Is there any precedent for a man so untested at the forefront of British politics to reach such a high position? He's just going to crack very quickly under the strain isn't he? I haven't thought in great detail, but i'm struggling off the top of my head. Even people who spring to mind as being inexperienced you usually find they have held some Govt position or shadow cabinet role. Even Pitt the Younger had had a year as Chancellor!

You might be able to make some allowances if he was young, and his untested nature was simply a consequence of a rapid rise from a young age...

Alex, the only one I can think of is Lord George Bentinck in 1846-47 - a natural backbencher who happened, by a series of coincidences, to end up leading the Protectionist movement. He had never held government office, never had a job, and spent most of his time at race meetings - indeed, the only practical form of work he had ever done was exposing a betting scandal, although he won fame by donating a large sum of money voted to him as a testimonial for this to found a charity. He was a bad debater (it is said, although I'm not quite convinced it is true, that he never spoke in Parliament before he became leader) had no government experience, was actually driven to consider hiring a lawyer to speak on his behalf in Parliament(!) and ultimately resigned after less than two years because he voted for Jewish emancipation on principle and his fellow Protectionists went ape.

Then of course there was Disraeli, who was about the third choice to succeed Bentinck (after Lord Granby and J. C. Herries) who had never held government office either, but was an experienced campaigner and journalist.

However, they both had advantages denied to Corbyn. Bentinck was supported by his party - probably more so in fact than he realised. Disraeli was intelligent and a brilliant debater. The overall leadership of the party was also invested in the very highly respected Earl of Derby, who had had a distinguished career of public service including a spell in the cabinet. Corbyn is hated by most of his colleagues (it's becoming rather obvious why) and he is neither intelligent nor a good speaker. Moreover, he will be in sole charge.

The only other parallel that might be suggested is George Lansbury - but that's a poor parallel. Lansbury was a hugely experienced local politician, had been in parliament for ages, had served in Cabinet and on a number of crucial committees, and was well-known in the country. He was also a dogmatic and not overly-bright socialist pacifist, but there the parallel ends.

This is a car crash that will not end well. I am still bewildered that people who are supposedly both adult and passionate about politics and helping ordinary people cannot see how big a disaster it will be.

LOL @ Ken Livingstone.

"Will you be in line for a job"?

"I'll be 75 when Jeremy forms his first government. Unless he wants a minister for zimmer frames I'll be looking for something else to do."

Jezza would be 71. ("but he's a lot fitter!")

Also repeating his line comparing him to Nigel Farage (!). "Somebody people would like to have a chat with in the pub"(although Jezza doesn't like him saying that, surprise, surprise!)

Is there anything people like less that having a chat in the pub with a teetotaller?

JosiasJessop said:

foxinsoxuk said:

We obviously are not going to agree on this. His behaviour was sleazy and inappropriate and needed to be called out. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour, whether sexist or racist just builds an atmosphere where such "banter" is accepted. It needs to be exposed so others can come forward who are less forthright.

Charlotte Proudman has published some interesting work:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/stop-honour-killing-murder-women-oppresive-patriarchy?CMP=fb_gu

We need such people to raise the banner of equal rights at home and abroad. She is not some feminist moaning over her coffee, she is out there fighting for the rights of women in far more misogynist cultures than our own. Clearly the old goat only ogled her picture and didn't read her CV on Linkedin

They were both out of order. Any good work she does is irrelevant to her actions, which seem to be rooted more in 'look at me!' than in any genuine grievance.

I also think her actions reflect negatively on her professionalism.

Proudman is just capitalising on the age-old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity". Expect to hear more of her identity politics ad nauseam.

oxfordsimon said:

Hosanna Heysanna Sanna Sanna Ho
Sanna Hey Sanna Ho Sanna
Hey J C, J C won't you smile at me?
Sanna Ho Sanna Hey Superstar

Can't get those lyrics out of my head at the moment

Seek help

AndyJS said:

From June:

"The dramatic first major poll of the 2016 Mayor of London battle today reveals that Tory golden boy Zac Goldsmith would lose to Dame Tessa Jowell - but would battle Sadiq Khan to a dead heat.
Exclusive research by YouGov reveals that former Olympics Minister Dame Tessa is currently ahead of both her Labour and Tory rivals as the choice of Londoners to succeed Boris Johnson.
In a Jowell v Goldsmith run-off, she would win by 57 per cent to 43 per cent after excluding voters who are unsure and therefore unlikely to vote.
If the final was between Khan and Goldsmith, there would be a 50-50 draw. However, with a huge number of undecided voters - some four in 10 - everything is still to play for."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/zac-goldsmith-would-lose-mayoral-race-to-tessa-jowell-but-finish-neck-and-neck-with-sadiq-khan-poll-10322781.htm

It may well be a dead heat now but after 8 months of the madness of Corbyn's antics I suspect the voters in London will be well and truly fed up with the Labour Party

News all talking of a Corbyn win with the expectations from Labour he will but if he dosent I just have a feeling that's going to be worse than if he actually does. I mean how on earth does a century old party manage all by themselves to get into a position like this?

The fall out is Corbyn looses will be formidable.

The fallout of he actually wins will be equally formidable.

Snowflake just door stepped by Sky news on her way to London. She seriously does not look happy one little bit or as one shall we say, smiling and bubbly knowing indicators have gone her way.

Cromwell said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Evening all. What a weekend for politics nerds. Watching a major political party commit suicide is a riveting if somewhat disconcerting sight.

I don't know whether this has already been noted, so apologies if so: there is a delicious snippet in the detailed mayoral selection figures: Diane Abbot beat Tessa Jowell amongst the three-quidders in every round until she was eliminated in the fourth round.

Yes , that's the X Factor £3ers at work , voting for a loon like Abbot and rejecting the sensible choice of Tessa Jowell ......this is merely symptomatic of a social phenomena that is eating away at the soul of the West .....the death of the grown-up ...anti austerity , lack of self discipline , vacuous pleasure seeking , refusing to face a harsh reality and personal responsibility

The NHS has sapped our moral fibre for nearly 70 years, eh?

The prospect of a Jeremy Corbyn win this morning is like....


.....


......


..


......

Nope. There is nothing I can liken it to. It is quite unique.

tlg86 said:

JackW said:

A new day has dawned , has it not ....

It's still dark Jack. Apparently on May 2, 1997 Campbell had Blair being driven round the block to kill time to allow it to get light.

Cromwell said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Evening all. What a weekend for politics nerds. Watching a major political party commit suicide is a riveting if somewhat disconcerting sight.

I don't know whether this has already been noted, so apologies if so: there is a delicious snippet in the detailed mayoral selection figures: Diane Abbot beat Tessa Jowell amongst the three-quidders in every round until she was eliminated in the fourth round.

Yes , that's the X Factor £3ers at work , voting for a loon like Abbot and rejecting the sensible choice of Tessa Jowell ......this is merely symptomatic of a social phenomena that is eating away at the soul of the West .....the death of the grown-up ...anti austerity , lack of self discipline , vacuous pleasure seeking , refusing to face a harsh reality and personal responsibility

Khan won convincingly across all sections of the electorate, nothing to do with 3 quidders or x factor. I suspect Jez, will do the same.

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Good piece.

Dreadful for the country and for Labour if he wins. Even Cooper's whining about 'white men' would be preferable.

It is all over MD he has skooshed it.

Incidentally, on skimming previous threads there was a lot of talk comparing Khan and Livingstone. To get the Star Trek reference in early, let's play this out logically.

Ken Livingstone was elected mayor twice, in four attempts. He was elected once because he was the outsider, and Londoners genuinely believed he was somebody who passionately loved the city (that's the city of London, not 'The City' - nobody thought that!) and would do his best for them. He then rejoined Labour and won because he was their official candidate at a time when they were still riding high. He then stood again and lost to Boris Johnson by quite a wide margin, largely because people were put off by his left win message. I can't imagine his casual racism or his ravings about Cuba and Venezuela helped either. Johnson then had what I understand from my friends in London was a distinctly underwhelming four years as mayor, and stood for reelection at a moment when his party was very unpopular. Yet he won again.

Either we must therefore assume that Livingstone is personally toxic, or that his political message is (or both). While he is divisive and controversial, it is clear he can, when he wishes, command widespread personal support. Quite a large number of non-Labour people still say they believe he is someone who will put the city first. As it happens, I think they're wrong, but that's irrelevant. Therefore, the first seems implausible. That leaves the second. And Khan has none of the first - and far more of the second. He's also not got Livingstone's track record in local politics (which, whether you admire the man or not, was undoubtedly impressive in career terms).

If Livingstone couldn't take London on a left wing message against the egregious Johnson, the suggestion that Khan could on a more left wing message against a more centrist and serious candidate is one for the fairies. Even if he does, it will be by a narrow margin when under current circumstances even a man in a monkey suit, or for that matter a monkey on a stick, ought to be able to win London for Labour by a landslide.

Cromwell said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Evening all. What a weekend for politics nerds. Watching a major political party commit suicide is a riveting if somewhat disconcerting sight.

I don't know whether this has already been noted, so apologies if so: there is a delicious snippet in the detailed mayoral selection figures: Diane Abbot beat Tessa Jowell amongst the three-quidders in every round until she was eliminated in the fourth round.

Yes , that's the X Factor £3ers at work , voting for a loon like Abbot and rejecting the sensible choice of Tessa Jowell ......this is merely symptomatic of a social phenomena that is eating away at the soul of the West .....the death of the grown-up ...anti austerity , lack of self discipline , vacuous pleasure seeking , refusing to face a harsh reality and personal responsibility

Despite not being a particularly religious man myself, I see all the things you list as a result of the downturn of religious belief in the west. I would guess that religions were formed in the first place to deal with those issues the last time around

In many ways, the tensions between Islam and the west are a result of the downturn. It would probably have been easier for Muslims to integrate into a country that was robustly Christian than agnostic. It must be hard for a Muslim to feel part of a country that is blase about so many things that he is forbidden.

John_M said:

JosiasJessop said:

foxinsoxuk said:

We obviously are not going to agree on this. His behaviour was sleazy and inappropriate and needed to be called out. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour, whether sexist or racist just builds an atmosphere where such "banter" is accepted. It needs to be exposed so others can come forward who are less forthright.

Charlotte Proudman has published some interesting work:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/stop-honour-killing-murder-women-oppresive-patriarchy?CMP=fb_gu

We need such people to raise the banner of equal rights at home and abroad. She is not some feminist moaning over her coffee, she is out there fighting for the rights of women in far more misogynist cultures than our own. Clearly the old goat only ogled her picture and didn't read her CV on Linkedin

They were both out of order. Any good work she does is irrelevant to her actions, which seem to be rooted more in 'look at me!' than in any genuine grievance.

I also think her actions reflect negatively on her professionalism.

Proudman is just capitalising on the age-old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity". Expect to hear more of her identity politics ad nauseam.

I believe it's called " performance rage."

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Not long to go now ...

Can we have any guesses about who the BBC and Sky will have in their studios to give instant reactions? I assume Harman'll be there in person.

The words spoken in the first few minutes might help set the tone.

It will not be instant , if anything like the recent Scottish dirge , few will be left listening by the time it gets to the result, an interminable serving of merde before even the deputy announced. Five minutes of torture was more than enough , just get it an hour later on the news without all the dross.

Malc, you're not being your usual sympathetic self. Think of those poor people, sitting on their fat wallets in a hot studio as they get paid to talk. Usually there's nothing to talk about, so they invent something that'll sell their next book or get people reading their column in the Daily Sunian TellyIndy Times. That requires real effort.

But today, just for once, they will have something important to talk about! It is your job as a proper EnglishmanScotsman to watch and listen to their fine words. Nay, it is your duty!

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SquareRoot said:

RE the Matt cartoon and the female barrister. she really is a charmer isn't she.. and Proudman isn't her "real " name

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/11243593/Matt-cartoons.html?frame=3437242


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11859971/Sexism-row-barrister-Charlotte-Proudman-wrote-vitriolic-email-to-her-elderly-grandmother-before-her-death.html

She should stand for the Labour Party, I am sure Harriet Harman would propose her.

doesn't deserve the twittermob lynching. Indeed does anyone deserve the twittermob?

Ok it is her real name.. I did put it in inverted commas.

Twittermob lynchings are rarely edifying. Carter-Smith does seem to be a bit inappropriate, and one wonders how he treats women generally.

You are missing the point. If she had not put it out on twitter she wouldn't have got what she received. Putting it on twitter, she hope to humiliate him. What she got back was entirely her own fault and no one else's.

He should not have said what he did, it was foolish in the modern world, but what she did was infinitely more deliberate and nasty., in fact really nasty.

We obviously are not going to agree on this. His behaviour was sleazy and inappropriate and needed to be called out. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour, whether sexist or racist just builds an atmosphere where such "banter" is accepted. It needs to be exposed so others can come forward who are less forthright.

Charlotte Proudman has published some interesting work:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/23/stop-honour-killing-murder-women-oppresive-patriarchy?CMP=fb_gu

We need such people to raise the banner of equal rights at home and abroad. She is not some feminist moaning over her coffee, she is out there fighting for the rights of women in far more misogynist cultures than our own. Clearly the old goat only ogled her picture and didn't read her CV on Linkedin

More like an attention seeking ambitious feminist idiot trying to get up the greasy pole at any cost. Any normal person would just have sent him back a suitable "F**** O*** you sad git" message and left it at that.
You should not give it out if you are not prepared to get it back.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Higher than the GE, Corbyn bringing out the non voters?

@theousherwood: Labour source has just told me - turnout at 76.3 per cent.

Turnout is a pretty meaningless statistic in a self-selectorate.

ThreeQuidder said:

Estobar said:

For the Tories on here still scratching their heads and confidently predicting the implosion of all things Labour I'd suggest you pause, reflect and just remember your majority in the HoC is 9.

Politics is about to become lively.

Sixteen, I believe? 329 seats out of 642 (excluding SF, Speaker and deputies)

Quite. A workable majority.

And once boundary changes occur and when either EVEL is enacted in a strengthened form/Scotland consigns itself to being a Eurozone fief, the Tories will be in a strong position.

Years since the Conservatives won a working majority: 0
Years since New Labour won a working majority: 10
Years since Old Labour won a working majority: 49

ydoethur said:

isam said:

Cromwell said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Evening all. What a weekend for politics nerds. Watching a major political party commit suicide is a riveting if somewhat disconcerting sight.

I don't know whether this has already been noted, so apologies if so: there is a delicious snippet in the detailed mayoral selection figures: Diane Abbot beat Tessa Jowell amongst the three-quidders in every round until she was eliminated in the fourth round.

Yes , that's the X Factor £3ers at work , voting for a loon like Abbot and rejecting the sensible choice of Tessa Jowell ......this is merely symptomatic of a social phenomena that is eating away at the soul of the West .....the death of the grown-up ...anti austerity , lack of self discipline , vacuous pleasure seeking , refusing to face a harsh reality and personal responsibility

Despite not being a particularly religious man myself, I see all the things you list as a result of the downturn of religious belief in the west. I would guess that religions were formed in the first place to deal with those issues the last time around

In many ways, the tensions between Islam and the west are a result of the downturn. It would probably have been easier for Muslims to integrate into a country that was robustly Christian than agnostic. It must be hard for a Muslim to feel part of a country that is blase about so many things that he is forbidden.

I think it was G. K. Chesterton who said that a people who do not believe in God do not believe in nothing, they believe in anything. I don't think the internet, with all its nutty conspiracy theories (Elvis and aliens, Kennedy and the CIA, Holocaust Denial etc.) is helping matters any either. Where you can escape into a dangerous fantasy at the click of a button, it becomes frighteningly easy to stay there.

I guess this thought process of mine is leading to the idea that if we were a fairly strict Christian country, then the choice for young muslims would be "be a strict muslim" or "adopt Christianity"... What we have instead is the option to be vaguely defined as muslim due to background, but in reality be part of a westernised X factor entitlement generation no different to any other, nothing to do with Islam, and this leads to religion being no more than a badge similar to those used in gang culture.

Innocent_Abroad said:

Do you have any evidence that people who identify as "religious" are any less hedonistic than those who don't? Perhaps people become "religious" because hedonism has failed to deliver for them.

As for your view of Islam, the Crusades and the Reconquista in Spain suggest otherwise.

Those were land struggles, not migrations. Moreover, the rather large number of indigenous Muslims in the Crusader states were treated better under the Franks than they were under their previous colonial masters, an awkward fact for those who seek to condemn the Crusades as a long war of Christian aggression against Islam (e.g. Terry Jones) and something that is therefore frequently ignored. For example, Muslims did not have to pay a dhimmi tax to the Kings of Jerusalem, and were granted full access to legal proceedings including the right to swear on the Koran in court. It's not a complete coincidence that Salah ad-Din was a Kurd who reconquered them from outside rather than inside.

If you are interested, I would recommend Ousamah ibn-Munqidh's Memoirs of an Arab-Syrian Gentlemen, where he discusses a case he brought against a knight who had seized one of his ships (the court gave him full redress) and his discussion of the way a Crusader knight kept strict order in his township, including clamping down on an anti-Muslim riot. He also some very funny anecdotes about the lives of the Crusaders among themselves. I think it's mostly available online - try Fordham University's Internet Medieval Sourcebook.

With regard to the Reconquista, I don't know enough either way to say for definite.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Higher than the GE, Corbyn bringing out the non voters?

@theousherwood: Labour source has just told me - turnout at 76.3 per cent.

When the Committee that was supposed to be scrutinising for "entryists" stopped meeting - that to me said it was futile. "What is the effing point in even bothering? We could throw out tens of thousands. Corbyn's still won this at a canter...."

EDIT: And who says they were non-voters at the General Election? FIrst, there's all those amongst who voted Tory in May.... Because it was the politically engaged anyway, you would expect turnout to be higher than at the General.

ydoethur said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Do you have any evidence that people who identify as "religious" are any less hedonistic than those who don't? Perhaps people become "religious" because hedonism has failed to deliver for them.

As for your view of Islam, the Crusades and the Reconquista in Spain suggest otherwise.

If you are interested, I would recommend Ousamah ibn-Munqidh's Memoirs of an Arab-Syrian Gentlemen, where he discusses a case he brought against a knight who had seized one of his ships (the court gave him full redress) and his discussion of the way a Crusader knight kept strict order in his township, including clamping down on an anti-Muslim riot. He also some very funny anecdotes about the lives of the Crusaders among themselves. I think it's mostly available online - try Fordham University's Internet Medieval Sourcebook.

With regard to the Reconquista, I don't know enough either way to say for definite.

The Reconquista was as complex as you can imagine. El Cid fought both for and against Moslems. Christians became more militant later.