TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.
An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
Also Grange Hill station flattened, not far from my way.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.
An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
Israel would never agree to anything like that.
They undoubtedly want to keep going and going. But the US does have leverage on them should they choose to use it.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
In Alien vs Predator I do not feel obliged to pick a side.
Didn't know about this incident until today, while reading a related Wiki article:
The Altalena Affair was a violent confrontation that took place in June 1948 between the newly created Israel Defense Forces and the Irgun (also known as Etzel), one of the Jewish paramilitary groups that were in the process of merging to form the IDF. The confrontation involved a cargo ship, the Altalena, captained by ex-US Navy lieutenant Monroe Fein and led by senior Etzel commander Eliyahu Lankin, which had been loaded with weapons and fighters by the independent Irgun, but arrived during the murky period of the Irgun's absorption into the IDF. Nineteen Israelis, three of them IDF soldiers and 16 of them Irgun members, were killed in the confrontation. The incident brought the newfound Israel to the brink of civil war.[1][2]
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
That particular user is the perfect example of “gives but cannot take”.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
A treacherous friend is a greater evil than a visible enemy.
Rhetorical nonsense.
What got you out of bed on the wrong side today?
I've had a cracking day. I spent 4 hours at the beach with my family in Portsmouth.
It cops a lot of flak, but it's a fun place with loads to do for kids.
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
You may be referring to this, and yes this is very much the same problem Johnson and the conservatives faced and we know what happened in 2024
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
Reshuffle speculation from @DavidPBMaddox: Streeting and Reeves out; Rayner, Haigh and Powell back in
Bit silly to bring back Rayner until investigation over. Would be typical Starmer I guess to bring her in and then she has to be booted again but still.
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
If KuenSSberg is the source it's about as credible as a fart in a colander
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
I don't recall laughing gleefully at the Covid pandemic or the Russian invasion of Ukraine just because they derailed the plans of a Tory government. But I guess everyone is different.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
A treacherous friend is a greater evil than a visible enemy.
Rhetorical nonsense.
What got you out of bed on the wrong side today?
I've had a cracking day. I spent 4 hours at the beach with my family in Portsmouth.
It cops a lot of flak, but it's a fun place with loads to do for kids.
We’ve been up,for a walk by Kielder. Glorious weather, great fun.
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
It is virtually certain that more slave workers died to build that V2, than that.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Depends on the target. If you get an LNG plant to go bang, then it's highly cost effective.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
In Alien vs Predator I do not feel obliged to pick a side.
In no world at all are Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu "good guys".
Liverpool was a fine and prosperous city until the second half of the twentieth century. Still much to recommend it, of course, but in its heyday it was a genuinely fine city.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.
An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
Israel would never agree to anything like that.
It is indeed within Israel's power to stop this, because to date they have shown that they have the power to lead Trump by the nose. Since their threat to the Iranian regime is existential, the Iranian regime can be expected to push back rather than capitulate so long as the attacks continue. The only other way for it to stop is for Iran to be defeated, which means completely losing their capacity to disrupt supplies of oil and gas. There is absolutely no sign of that happening.
Israel by its actions is already well down the road of catastrophically ruining the economy of the UK (and that of most of the rest of the world.) Any state acting thus should be regarded as a state hostile to the UK's interests.
In those circumstances, I think the most effective response of the UK (and others) would be to leave no stone unturned to try and ruin the economy of Israel, to induce them to stop.
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
Also Grange Hill station flattened, not far from my way.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
A treacherous friend is a greater evil than a visible enemy.
Rhetorical nonsense.
What got you out of bed on the wrong side today?
I've had a cracking day. I spent 4 hours at the beach with my family in Portsmouth.
It cops a lot of flak, but it's a fun place with loads to do for kids.
We’ve been up,for a walk by Kielder. Glorious weather, great fun.
Reshuffle speculation from @DavidPBMaddox: Streeting and Reeves out; Rayner, Haigh and Powell back in
Bit silly to bring back Rayner until investigation over. Would be typical Starmer I guess to bring her in and then she has to be booted again but still.
iirc Rayner camp are expecting hmrc to clear it all up and agree what she needs to pay in the next few weeks.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.
An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
Israel would never agree to anything like that.
It is indeed within Israel's power to stop this, because to date they have shown that they have the power to lead Trump by the nose. Since their threat to the Iranian regime is existential, the Iranian regime can be expected to push back rather than capitulate so long as the attacks continue. The only other way for it to stop is for Iran to be defeated, which means completely losing their capacity to disrupt supplies of oil and gas. There is absolutely no sign of that happening.
Israel by its actions is already well down the road of catastrophically ruining the economy of the UK (and that of most of the rest of the world.) Any state acting thus should be regarded as a state hostile to the UK's interests.
In those circumstances, I think the most effective response of the UK (and others) would be to leave no stone unturned to try and ruin the economy of Israel, to induce them to stop.
Apart from the last para, which is a bit daft (while they are backed by the US we have no capacity to "ruin their economy") I agree.
Potentially about to announce a massive intervention ref energy bills a la Truss and sacks the Chancellor whom he has stated is essential to fiscal probity....... All sounds a bit September 2022
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
It is virtually certain that more slave workers died to build that V2, than that.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
A treacherous friend is a greater evil than a visible enemy.
Rhetorical nonsense.
What got you out of bed on the wrong side today?
I've had a cracking day. I spent 4 hours at the beach with my family in Portsmouth.
It cops a lot of flak, but it's a fun place with loads to do for kids.
We’ve been up,for a walk by Kielder. Glorious weather, great fun.
I've been up Kinder Scout. Absolutely glorious.
Oooh, I love Derbyshire. I worked for Bombardier there for a couple of years and developed a real love for the region. Matlock Baths is amazing. A seaside town miles from the sea.
Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.
He's not wrong. But if you have the world's strongest military why not have them earn their keep.
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
If KuenSSberg is the source it's about as credible as a fart in a colander
It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.
It's the psychological effects that predominate
Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
Also Grange Hill station flattened, not far from my way.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
"A little disruption" ? What do you think the effect of the world's largest gas field being put out of action (and there is a serious risk of that - a single missile took out a fifth of Qatar's capacity) for the next few years would be ?
Right now neither the US nor Israel are "very much the good guys". The Iranian regime might be (is) worse still, but that does not render a reckless and very likely futile action a good thing.
Trump on troop deployments: I seem to have great support. CNN came out with a poll today that I'm at 100%. They said they have never seen a poll like that. The CNN poll said I'm at 100%. https://x.com/Acyn/status/2035082293677809824
Trump on troop deployments: I seem to have great support. CNN came out with a poll today that I'm at 100%. They said they have never seen a poll like that. The CNN poll said I'm at 100%. https://x.com/Acyn/status/2035082293677809824
He's right.
They never have seen a poll like that. Because it doesn't exist.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
In Alien vs Predator I do not feel obliged to pick a side.
In no world at all are Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu "good guys".
No matter how bad you think they are, they’re orders of magnitude better than the Iranian Mullahs.
They are executing their own people, in the tens of thousands, for offences as serious as taking off the burqa in public or protesting in the street.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
In Alien vs Predator I do not feel obliged to pick a side.
In no world at all are Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu "good guys".
No matter how bad you think they are, they’re orders of magnitude better than the Iranian Mullahs.
They are executing their own people, in the tens of thousands, for offences as serious as taking off the burqa in public or protesting in the street.
Israel also killed tens of thousands of civilians over the last couple of years.
Trump on troop deployments: I seem to have great support. CNN came out with a poll today that I'm at 100%. They said they have never seen a poll like that. The CNN poll said I'm at 100%. https://x.com/Acyn/status/2035082293677809824
He's right.
They never have seen a poll like that. Because it doesn't exist.
He's picked up that 100% of MAGA are behind him which is the polling that CNN were highlighting a day or two ago.
As he doesn't understand numbers he may press on with this shitshow of a war believing it is not threat to the midterms as he has 100% backing.
Even Little Rocket Man only got 99% the other day.
If these figures are correct, why are we bothering to deploy any fast jets to the region ?
While high-end assets like THAAD and the F-35 grab all the headlines, a "blue-collar" hero, as I like to call it, is quietly winning the drone war every night. The RAF Regiment’s Rapid Sentry system, deployed around Erbil, Iraq, has notched an incredible tally of ~50 Iranian drone intercepts since February 28. To put that in perspective, Rapid Sentry has downed roughly 10 times as many drones as the RAF’s fighter jets in the same theater! It’s the ultimate goalkeeper: a VSHORAD designed exclusively to tackle low and slow threats like the Shahed-136... https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/2035389347248148717
On domestic matters we should get an MRP for the locals soon. If Electoral Calculus follow last years timetable it would be in tomorrows Telegraph. Opinium have a normal VI out at 8
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
Fairly safe assumption.
I've found Cicero's posts informative over years, what, exactly do you think was "pompous" in the comment we sew discussing?
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
If these figures are correct, why are we bothering to deploy any fast jets to the region ?
While high-end assets like THAAD and the F-35 grab all the headlines, a "blue-collar" hero, as I like to call it, is quietly winning the drone war every night. The RAF Regiment’s Rapid Sentry system, deployed around Erbil, Iraq, has notched an incredible tally of ~50 Iranian drone intercepts since February 28. To put that in perspective, Rapid Sentry has downed roughly 10 times as many drones as the RAF’s fighter jets in the same theater! It’s the ultimate goalkeeper: a VSHORAD designed exclusively to tackle low and slow threats like the Shahed-136... https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/2035389347248148717
The fast jets should be used to intercept cruise missiles and similar, rather than drones.
Also, Rapid Sentry is a VSHORAD (very short range air defence) system, and doubtless you'd need several orders of magnitude more of them to defend everywhere. A fast jet is fast - it can get to where the threats are heading - and so it can cover a wider area.
The Ukrainians operate a layered air defence system against drones and business. You certainly wouldn't want fast jets to be the backbone of it, but they'll be part of it.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
Fairly safe assumption.
I've found Cicero's posts informative over years, what, exactly do you think was "pompous" in the comment we sew discussing?
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
Then, if I may ask, why aren't they attacking Iran more?
On domestic matters we should get an MRP for the locals soon. If Electoral Calculus follow last years timetable it would be in tomorrows Telegraph. Opinium have a normal VI out at 8
Yes, I'm not sure after last year's fiasco, Electoral Calculus should be doing another MRP on local elections.
Trump on troop deployments: I seem to have great support. CNN came out with a poll today that I'm at 100%. They said they have never seen a poll like that. The CNN poll said I'm at 100%. https://x.com/Acyn/status/2035082293677809824
He's right.
They never have seen a poll like that. Because it doesn't exist.
But it does.
CNN polled self-identifying MAGA members. They still support Trump.
However, the number of self-identifying MAGA members has dropped significantly. Trump will be losing the House and quite possibly the Senate as a consequence.
But hey, churlish to mention that and spoil his day...
If these figures are correct, why are we bothering to deploy any fast jets to the region ?
While high-end assets like THAAD and the F-35 grab all the headlines, a "blue-collar" hero, as I like to call it, is quietly winning the drone war every night. The RAF Regiment’s Rapid Sentry system, deployed around Erbil, Iraq, has notched an incredible tally of ~50 Iranian drone intercepts since February 28. To put that in perspective, Rapid Sentry has downed roughly 10 times as many drones as the RAF’s fighter jets in the same theater! It’s the ultimate goalkeeper: a VSHORAD designed exclusively to tackle low and slow threats like the Shahed-136... https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/2035389347248148717
The fast jets should be used to intercept cruise missiles and similar, rather than drones.
Also, Rapid Sentry is a VSHORAD (very short range air defence) system, and doubtless you'd need several orders of magnitude more of them to defend everywhere. A fast jet is fast - it can get to where the threats are heading - and so it can cover a wider area.
The Ukrainians operate a layered air defence system against drones and business. You certainly wouldn't want fast jets to be the backbone of it, but they'll be part of it.
The Ukrainian jets have an excellent record at taking down cruise missiles.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
Reshuffle speculation from @DavidPBMaddox: Streeting and Reeves out; Rayner, Haigh and Powell back in
Is it April 1st already !
What a load of nonsense . And if you read the article all it says is if there’s a move to the left then it might be Reeves and Streeting could go . It’s a load of speculation. Basically a load of tosh .
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
Then, if I may ask, why aren't they attacking Iran more?
Because they’re happy to save their ammo while others are attacking Iran, preferring at this stage to use their military for defensive activities.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
So Labour ministers are angry that their plans for government are being disrupted by "events" - karma's a bitch says Boris, Sunak, et al. Awful where the buck stops and I find it hard to stop laughing!
I don't recall laughing gleefully at the Covid pandemic or the Russian invasion of Ukraine just because they derailed the plans of a Tory government. But I guess everyone is different.
I'm laughing at the squirming politicians not the event. But of course you know that so discard the halo.
Reshuffle speculation from @DavidPBMaddox: Streeting and Reeves out; Rayner, Haigh and Powell back in
Is it April 1st already !
What a load of nonsense . And if you read the article all it says is if there’s a move to the left then it might be Reeves and Streeting could go . It’s a load of speculation. Basically a load of tosh .
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
For some balance: you’ve admitted your youth spent as a communist supporter. In any sensible world, that should have disbarred you from any career in mainstream British politics, just as it would for some right-wing youth who spent their time on National Front marches and later fancied a career in the Tory party. But, because of our blind spot when it comes to the abomination of communism, you were allowed to reinvent yourself, sell your soul to New Labour, and serve your time in parliament as one of its foot soldiers. Doubtless, if we dug into your voting record, we would uncover a whole stack of votes you made for things in which you simply don’t believe.
Now, retired from active politics, you’re free to return to putting your principles ahead of keeping your place on the political gravy train.
In the round, far from being a good example, I would suggest you’re an exemplar for much that is wrong with our politics.
It's a view. But I've never felt that there was a huge gap between my youthful Eurocommunism and later acting as a largely loyal Labour MP. Both came from the same essentially idealistic starting point, and although Eurocommunism - supporting the principle of equality and working-class solidarity while rejecting the dictatorial slant of Eastern Europe - proved a dead end I've never apologised for supporting it (I doubt if you'd even know if I wasn't open about it). I felt that Blair and Brown were in principle on board with the project of a more equal society, in a way that I sadly no longer feel with Starmer. Nor did I see the Commons in the least as a gravy train - I took a 50% pay cut on election compared with my previous private sector job, and the 13 years in Parliament wasn't a particularly wealthy time.
Most of us make excuses for our choices and I'm sure that I'd do some things differently if I relived my life. But you imply a more cynical approach than I ever had.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.
If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill. And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.
The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.
Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.
The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.
Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.
Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.
Sorry.
I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
Fairly safe assumption.
I've found Cicero's posts informative over years, what, exactly do you think was "pompous" in the comment we sew discussing?
Well, what did you find informative in it?
Cicero writes well and you want to believe in what they say however it’s undone by pronouncements since Ukraine started that Putin would be toppled, Russia was on the verge of breakdown, etc etc. perfect example of writing what you believe rather than what’s realistic. I would love for their predictions to have come off over the years but it’s wishcasting in nice prose, I can hear it delivered in strong stentorian tones.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
In Alien vs Predator I do not feel obliged to pick a side.
In no world at all are Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu "good guys".
No matter how bad you think they are, they’re orders of magnitude better than the Iranian Mullahs.
They are executing their own people, in the tens of thousands, for offences as serious as taking off the burqa in public or protesting in the street.
You'd think someone who lives in the ME would know the difference between a burqa and a hijab! Iran, Israel and the US all have horrible governments and their horribleness manifests in different ways. The Iranian government is worse when it comes to internal repression, for sure. The Israelis have killed tens of thousands of civilians in recent years. Trump has torn up the US alliance system and launched a war that looks pretty illegal and has resulted in at least hundreds of civilian deaths, so far. So are the Iranian Mullahs worse? Yes. Orders of magnitude worse? I don't think so.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.
An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
Israel would never agree to anything like that.
It is indeed within Israel's power to stop this, because to date they have shown that they have the power to lead Trump by the nose. Since their threat to the Iranian regime is existential, the Iranian regime can be expected to push back rather than capitulate so long as the attacks continue. The only other way for it to stop is for Iran to be defeated, which means completely losing their capacity to disrupt supplies of oil and gas. There is absolutely no sign of that happening.
Israel by its actions is already well down the road of catastrophically ruining the economy of the UK (and that of most of the rest of the world.) Any state acting thus should be regarded as a state hostile to the UK's interests.
In those circumstances, I think the most effective response of the UK (and others) would be to leave no stone unturned to try and ruin the economy of Israel, to induce them to stop.
Apart from the last para, which is a bit daft (while they are backed by the US we have no capacity to "ruin their economy") I agree.
You're of course right that alone the UK doesn't have the capacity to ruin Israel economically. Alone we have the capacity to inflict not insignificant economic damage but not that much. But the same logic applies to pretty well every other state too and if the UK and a handful of other states initially treated Israel thus, further states would I think start to join in, to the extent that they'd then be facing economic damage palpably worse than they are inflicting on us, above and beyond the consequences of higher oil and gas prices (which affects the Israel's economy just as much as it does ours.)
Psychologically too, the spectre of a growing number of states treating Israel as an economic pariah rather than an ally come what may would I think have just as much impact on Israeli public opinion as the economic damage itself.
I don't actually think Netanyahu cares that much about his country's economic prospects at all, nor the very limited threat from Iran to Israel itself (which he's happy to massively exaggerate for his own purposes), what he cares about is his reelection prospects. He'll only stop when he perceives Israeli public opinion turning against him.
For some balance: you’ve admitted your youth spent as a communist supporter. In any sensible world, that should have disbarred you from any career in mainstream British politics, just as it would for some right-wing youth who spent their time on National Front marches and later fancied a career in the Tory party. But, because of our blind spot when it comes to the abomination of communism, you were allowed to reinvent yourself, sell your soul to New Labour, and serve your time in parliament as one of its foot soldiers. Doubtless, if we dug into your voting record, we would uncover a whole stack of votes you made for things in which you simply don’t believe.
Now, retired from active politics, you’re free to return to putting your principles ahead of keeping your place on the political gravy train.
In the round, far from being a good example, I would suggest you’re an exemplar for much that is wrong with our politics.
It's a view. But I've never felt that there was a huge gap between my youthful Eurocommunism and later acting as a largely loyal Labour MP. Both came from the same essentially idealistic starting point, and although Eurocommunism - supporting the principle of equality and working-class solidarity while rejecting the dictatorial slant of Eastern Europe - proved a dead end I've never apologised for supporting it (I doubt if you'd even know if I wasn't open about it). I felt that Blair and Brown were in principle on board with the project of a more equal society, in a way that I sadly no longer feel with Starmer. Nor did I see the Commons in the least as a gravy train - I took a 50% pay cut on election compared with my previous private sector job, and the 13 years in Parliament wasn't a particularly wealthy time.
Most of us make excuses for our choices and I'm sure that I'd do some things differently if I relived my life. But you imply a more cynical approach than I ever had.
I have no idea why @IanB2 should launch that attack on you and you should not need to defend yourself
You are an example of decency in politics and some need to learn from your example
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
For some balance: you’ve admitted your youth spent as a communist supporter. In any sensible world, that should have disbarred you from any career in mainstream British politics, just as it would for some right-wing youth who spent their time on National Front marches and later fancied a career in the Tory party. But, because of our blind spot when it comes to the abomination of communism, you were allowed to reinvent yourself, sell your soul to New Labour, and serve your time in parliament as one of its foot soldiers. Doubtless, if we dug into your voting record, we would uncover a whole stack of votes you made for things in which you simply don’t believe.
Now, retired from active politics, you’re free to return to putting your principles ahead of keeping your place on the political gravy train.
In the round, far from being a good example, I would suggest you’re an exemplar for much that is wrong with our politics.
It's a view. But I've never felt that there was a huge gap between my youthful Eurocommunism and later acting as a largely loyal Labour MP. Both came from the same essentially idealistic starting point, and although Eurocommunism - supporting the principle of equality and working-class solidarity while rejecting the dictatorial slant of Eastern Europe - proved a dead end I've never apologised for supporting it (I doubt if you'd even know if I wasn't open about it). I felt that Blair and Brown were in principle on board with the project of a more equal society, in a way that I sadly no longer feel with Starmer. Nor did I see the Commons in the least as a gravy train - I took a 50% pay cut on election compared with my previous private sector job, and the 13 years in Parliament wasn't a particularly wealthy time.
Most of us make excuses for our choices and I'm sure that I'd do some things differently if I relived my life. But you imply a more cynical approach than I ever had.
Ignore the haters, Nick. You have put in the hours supporting this precious thing called parliamentary democracy. I for one appreciate your service. It's easy to make unpleasant remarks on an anonymous blog, far harder to throw yourself into the imperfect world of politics to make messy compromises and try to nudge things in the right direction.
I remember when Trump was being sensible and was just threatening Greenland, this guy was peppering Facebook with photos and videos of him on current Arctic training with the Marines, Ice climbing, camo’ed up with them etc etc. seems self promotion went to his head.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.
Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
"…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."
Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.
More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
A peace deal with who exactly?
Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.
US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!
I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.
US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
100%.
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
The Iranian regime have killed thousands of civilians, the Israeli regime have killed thousands of civilians.
Comments
It is quite depressing how many people here have an inverted sense of who is good and who is bad here.
Nor should they.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yBigkqFsig
The Altalena Affair was a violent confrontation that took place in June 1948 between the newly created Israel Defense Forces and the Irgun (also known as Etzel), one of the Jewish paramilitary groups that were in the process of merging to form the IDF. The confrontation involved a cargo ship, the Altalena, captained by ex-US Navy lieutenant Monroe Fein and led by senior Etzel commander Eliyahu Lankin, which had been loaded with weapons and fighters by the independent Irgun, but arrived during the murky period of the Irgun's absorption into the IDF. Nineteen Israelis, three of them IDF soldiers and 16 of them Irgun members, were killed in the confrontation. The incident brought the newfound Israel to the brink of civil war.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena_Affair
It cops a lot of flak, but it's a fun place with loads to do for kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Reshuffle speculation from @DavidPBMaddox: Streeting and Reeves out; Rayner, Haigh and Powell back in
As @Foxy said, it's Alien v. Predator...
If you get an LNG plant to go bang, then it's highly cost effective.
Still much to recommend it, of course, but in its heyday it was a genuinely fine city.
Israel by its actions is already well down the road of catastrophically ruining the economy of the UK (and that of most of the rest of the world.) Any state acting thus should be regarded as a state hostile to the UK's interests.
In those circumstances, I think the most effective response of the UK (and others) would be to leave no stone unturned to try and ruin the economy of Israel, to induce them to stop.
All sounds a bit September 2022
We were terrified under a steel table at the time
It is the Guardian's story
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Starmer is first in the queue on that one
What do you think the effect of the world's largest gas field being put out of action (and there is a serious risk of that - a single missile took out a fifth of Qatar's capacity) for the next few years would be ?
Right now neither the US nor Israel are "very much the good guys". The Iranian regime might be (is) worse still, but that does not render a reckless and very likely futile action a good thing.
https://x.com/Acyn/status/2035082293677809824
They never have seen a poll like that. Because it doesn't exist.
They are executing their own people, in the tens of thousands, for offences as serious as taking off the burqa in public or protesting in the street.
As he doesn't understand numbers he may press on with this shitshow of a war believing it is not threat to the midterms as he has 100% backing.
Even Little Rocket Man only got 99% the other day.
While high-end assets like THAAD and the F-35 grab all the headlines, a "blue-collar" hero, as I like to call it, is quietly winning the drone war every night. The RAF Regiment’s Rapid Sentry system, deployed around Erbil, Iraq, has notched an incredible tally of ~50 Iranian drone intercepts since February 28. To put that in perspective, Rapid Sentry has downed roughly 10 times as many drones as the RAF’s fighter jets in the same theater! It’s the ultimate goalkeeper: a VSHORAD designed exclusively to tackle low and slow threats like the Shahed-136...
https://x.com/RealAirPower1/status/2035389347248148717
Opinium have a normal VI out at 8
Israel fought armed terrorists in Hamas.
Two completely different things.
https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/2035404085705261152?s=20
Also, Rapid Sentry is a VSHORAD (very short range air defence) system, and doubtless you'd need several orders of magnitude more of them to defend everywhere. A fast jet is fast - it can get to where the threats are heading - and so it can cover a wider area.
The Ukrainians operate a layered air defence system against drones and business. You certainly wouldn't want fast jets to be the backbone of it, but they'll be part of it.
CNN polled self-identifying MAGA members. They still support Trump.
However, the number of self-identifying MAGA members has dropped significantly. Trump will be losing the House and quite possibly the Senate as a consequence.
But hey, churlish to mention that and spoil his day...
Hurrah for the IDF. Even the rapists in their midst
BREAKING: Former Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who led probe into Russian election interference, has died - MSNOW
What a load of nonsense . And if you read the article all it says is if there’s a move to the left then it might be Reeves and Streeting could go . It’s a load of speculation. Basically a load of tosh .
Nearest one to me is Hexham, or a garage in North Shields if that counts.
There’s a Lidl nearby.
One is acceptable, one is not.
Pure client clap trap
Alien versus Predator.
Most of us make excuses for our choices and I'm sure that I'd do some things differently if I relived my life. But you imply a more cynical approach than I ever had.
Trump: “Robert Mueller just died. Good, I’m glad he’s dead. He can no longer hurt innocent people! President DONALD J. TRUMP”
They fought in a war against an armed enemy and people died as happens in all wars.
That's not blood lust.
Only one nation involved has deliberately murdered tens of thousands of unarmed civilians as opposed to fighting a just war. Only Iran has done that.
Iran, Israel and the US all have horrible governments and their horribleness manifests in different ways. The Iranian government is worse when it comes to internal repression, for sure. The Israelis have killed tens of thousands of civilians in recent years. Trump has torn up the US alliance system and launched a war that looks pretty illegal and has resulted in at least hundreds of civilian deaths, so far. So are the Iranian Mullahs worse? Yes. Orders of magnitude worse? I don't think so.
Psychologically too, the spectre of a growing number of states treating Israel as an economic pariah rather than an ally come what may would I think have just as much impact on Israeli public opinion as the economic damage itself.
I don't actually think Netanyahu cares that much about his country's economic prospects at all, nor the very limited threat from Iran to Israel itself (which he's happy to massively exaggerate for his own purposes), what he cares about is his reelection prospects. He'll only stop when he perceives Israeli public opinion turning against him.
You are an example of decency in politics and some need to learn from your example
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/mar/21/labour-minister-al-carns-claims-on-expenses-for-promotional-videos-birmingham
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6wXs1qlURLs
(Funny url btw.)
Bombing Schools, hospitals, civilian areas blindly.
Shooting innocent families waving white flags.
Gaza
West Bank
Beirut
Call it what you will
Genocide
Mass Murder
Gratuitous Barbarity
The bastards who did it, planned it, organise it, ordered it should be hunted down and given a n example of their own medicine.
Those who blindly advocate it and excuse it should be arrested and charged with war crimes.
It's nit political
It's not religious
It's pure cold blooded murder
If you excuse it, you advocate it...
No words can describe that filth of humanity.
It's as bad as any barbarism in history.
Going to war over that is not blood lust, it is self-defence.
People dying in war is not blood lust.
Our invasion of Iraq led to an estimated hundreds of thousands up to a million deaths, considerably more than died in Gaza. Was that too "blood lust".
War and the deliberate targeting of civilians are two completely different things.
To blur the lines between them is dishonest.