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  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,304
    DavidL said:

    DoctorG said:

    When Kenny Macaskill was justice secretary, and the Lockerbie bomber (Megrahi) was released, Mueller was so incensed by the decision the US authorities sent a letter across to be delivered to Macaskill. The FBI contacted the Scottish police and asked for it to be delivered to the Justice Secretary's house, in the middle of the night.

    The police refused. This is what was sent

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216107.stm

    I'm not sure why they couldn't have sent it by airmail in the usual way, but surely many people would agree with the sentiment: at the time I thought Megrahii should have died in prison. This is what a life sentence means.
    Dr Swire whose daughter died in the Lockerbie bombing didn’t agree and still doesn’t.
    Well, that's his prerogative but different opinions exist.

    (In any case I have always felt that a parent of a murdered person is not the victim and shouldn't be treated as one)

    I think the real subtext was that he was let out early on a pretext because the conviction was believed to be unsafe and it was thought he might win his appeal.
    Nope, his appeal was dealt with posthumously and refused: https://www.judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/judgments/2021/01/15/megrahi-judgment

    It never had any realistic prospect of success because the case turned, as most criminal cases do, on the facts and an appellate court was not in a position to disturb them.

    He was released because he was supposed to have weeks (at the most) to live but he didn't die until May 2012, nearly 3 years after the shameful decision taken by Macaskill.
    IIRC he was given a 50/50 chance of dying within six months. So the equivalent of tossing a coin and getting six heads in a row.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,789

    Ryan Coetzee
    @RyanCoetzee

    I understand some people hate the left. I understand that some people are conservative. I understand some people are nationalists. But what I don’t understand is why anyone, whatever their world view, would be unable to see Trump for what he is as a human being. It’s a simple matter of basic judgement. He is unfit. Utterly unfit.

    https://x.com/RyanCoetzee/status/2035427888728871081
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,517
    edited March 21

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    What you gave us was post the subsidy and levies. It’s actually flagged up on what you gave us.

    The answer to the question is Gas in UK cheaper the renewables, is yes.
    But only after subsidy and levies.

    For simple example, if we put 25% levy on Gas to pay for more energy investment, and took that same levy off renewables at same time, would your original point “the biggest piece of guff about {renewables} being that they are cheaper than gas this is a provable untruth” actually come out the other way around?

    Politically no one puts 25% levy to fund renewables on Gas bills - at least not at this stage but it is coming. I don’t need to explain to you why this particular moment is particularly different in the exciting transformation of UK energy.
  • It’s obvious.

    Build nuclear power stations and build lots of renewables.

    It’s not really difficult to see how we get out of this hole. But people only seem to want to do one. Bizarre.
  • But let’s be honest @Luckyguy1983 basically doesn’t believe in man made climate change (I.e. the science) so anything he says is automatically suspect.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,449
    rcs1000 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    So, I'm a little confused by his analysis.

    For natural gas he has the cost as #75 per MW/h, which is #61 fuel, and #15 carbon credits.

    Which raises a little bit of a question: like how are you capturing operating and capital costs? #75 might be the marginal cost of production for an existing gas plant (i.e. the point at which the value of electricity exceeds the cost of fuel and carbon credits).

    But it's not a fully loaded price. Nobody would build a CCGT if you only got the price of fuel plus the price of carbon credits. You need to get your capital and operational costs covered too.

    So, it seems he's comparing the cost of energy from existing plants (excluding operating costs), agains the fully loaded cost of a KwH from other sources. He also doesn't seem to capture capacity payments in there, which is a little lazy.
    As I understand it, capacity payments are paid to gas and other reliable generators to provide power where there is no generation from intermittent renewables. Since they would not be necessary without intermittent renewables, it would be misleading to add them to the price per megawatt hour of gas - they are in fact a hidden cost of renewable generation. If that is what you mean, it is dealt with at some length in the article.

    I would assume that his costings for 'fuel' include plant running costs. If you doubt this and think he's made a mistake, what's your estiimated addition? £1? £5?

    You seem to basically acknowledge the reasoning is sound.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,517
    edited March 21

    Don't do this Dems. FFS.

    Run a full on primary. Find someone else.

    How many indies are going to choke on this?

    Talerico?


    Josh Barro
    @jbarro

    "First Partner" is such an annoying title choice from Gavin Newsom's wife. Pretentious and clinical at the same time.

    https://x.com/jbarro/status/2035056428621189622

    I actually like the move to First Partner.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,449
    edited March 21

    But let’s be honest @Luckyguy1983 basically doesn’t believe in man made climate change (I.e. the science) so anything he says is automatically suspect.

    I think if you read this back, you'll see what an utterly dickish - bordering on primitive, thing it is to say.

    'I REFUSE TO BELIEVE YOU ABOUT ANYTHING, EVEN IF IT IS A FACT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BLASHPHEMED!'
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 23,108

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2035453862920728630

    EXCL: Morgan McSweeney's mobile phone with texts to Peter Mandelson was stolen.

    These messages may be lost forever - meaning there there will be gaps in The Mandelson files published by No10.

    How very convenient 😂
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,737
    edited March 21
    AI travel advice:

    “Charente-Maritime (La Rochelle to Royan)

    The Manger: Éclade de Moules. Don't just order mussels; look for an Éclade. The mussels are arranged in a concentric circle on a wooden board and covered with a thick layer of pine needles, which are then set on fire. The result is a smoky, resinous flavour you won't find anywhere else.

    The Boire: Pineau des Charentes (Chilled). This is a mistelle (grape juice mixed with Cognac). It is the classic drink in this region “
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849
    edited March 21
    Andy_JS said:

    Important new research.

    "King Harold’s forced march to Battle of Hastings ‘implausible’"

    https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2026-03-21/king-harolds-forced-march-to-battle-of-hastings-implausible

    Historical accounts of a battle 1000 years ago not necessarily one hundred percent accurate? Shocking, if true.

    Army sizes is always a good one. IIRC Herodotus tried to calculate Persian army size with reference to the vast amounts of grain and other supplies that would be needed, but at least he was trying to justify the numbers I guess.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,449

    It’s obvious.

    Build nuclear power stations and build lots of renewables.

    It’s not really difficult to see how we get out of this hole. But people only seem to want to do one. Bizarre.

    It's obvious that that's bollocks.

    Wind and solar need reliable back up generation that can turn on and off whenever you need them. That isn't nuclear. At the moment it's gas - mostly foreign gas.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,789
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    26m
    How long before we find Peter Mandelson’s mobile has accidentally been dropped in the North Sea.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2035483021244010600


    "I left it on the beach on an island. Sadly. I forget the exact name."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849
    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2035453862920728630

    EXCL: Morgan McSweeney's mobile phone with texts to Peter Mandelson was stolen.

    These messages may be lost forever - meaning there there will be gaps in The Mandelson files published by No10.

    How very convenient 😂
    Didn't one of the assistants in the Wagatha Christie trial 'drop her phone in the sea' as a reason not to provide messages?

    Still, with all the talk of the level of petty crime in London surely no one in opposition can suggest claiming your mobile was stolen there is implausible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849

    Don't do this Dems. FFS.

    Run a full on primary. Find someone else.

    How many indies are going to choke on this?

    Talerico?


    Josh Barro
    @jbarro

    "First Partner" is such an annoying title choice from Gavin Newsom's wife. Pretentious and clinical at the same time.

    https://x.com/jbarro/status/2035056428621189622

    I actually like the move to First Partner.
    I don't see why they need a term for it at all, but given they have done in the past I guess they are stuck with it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,789

    It’s obvious.

    Build nuclear power stations and build lots of renewables.

    It’s not really difficult to see how we get out of this hole. But people only seem to want to do one. Bizarre.

    It's obvious that that's bollocks.

    Wind and solar need reliable back up generation that can turn on and off whenever you need them. That isn't nuclear. At the moment it's gas - mostly foreign gas.
    Even if we use the rest of the gas in the North Sea as the backup we still face the question of what we do in thirty years time.

    Which is about the timescale to build a nuke in this country.

    So let's get on with it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,789
    kle4 said:

    Don't do this Dems. FFS.

    Run a full on primary. Find someone else.

    How many indies are going to choke on this?

    Talerico?


    Josh Barro
    @jbarro

    "First Partner" is such an annoying title choice from Gavin Newsom's wife. Pretentious and clinical at the same time.

    https://x.com/jbarro/status/2035056428621189622

    I actually like the move to First Partner.
    I don't see why they need a term for it at all, but given they have done in the past I guess they are stuck with it.
    This is the kind of progressive shit that guarantees the Dem brand is toxic in large amounts of the electorate in the US.

    This is an emergency. The US democracy needs saving.

    This is no time for frippery and distractions.

    COST OF LIVING day in and day out.

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,737

    AI travel advice:

    “Charente-Maritime (La Rochelle to Royan)

    The Manger: Éclade de Moules. Don't just order mussels; look for an Éclade. The mussels are arranged in a concentric circle on a wooden board and covered with a thick layer of pine needles, which are then set on fire. The result is a smoky, resinous flavour you won't find anywhere else.

    The Boire: Pineau des Charentes (Chilled). This is a mistelle (grape juice mixed with Cognac). It is the classic drink in this region “

    Has anyone tried pine needle smoked mussels?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,449
    edited March 21

    It’s obvious.

    Build nuclear power stations and build lots of renewables.

    It’s not really difficult to see how we get out of this hole. But people only seem to want to do one. Bizarre.

    It's obvious that that's bollocks.

    Wind and solar need reliable back up generation that can turn on and off whenever you need them. That isn't nuclear. At the moment it's gas - mostly foreign gas.
    Even if we use the rest of the gas in the North Sea as the backup we still face the question of what we do in thirty years time.

    Which is about the timescale to build a nuke in this country.

    So let's get on with it.
    If we did the things I said in my reply to CHB (when I thought he wanted to have a sensible discussion - more fool me), we would be laughing.

    Sensible mixed energy. Nuclear but not massive expensive nuclear white elephants. Tidal providing reliable renewable energy for centuries with no waste. Domestic oil and gas. Bit of coal. And the wind and solar we're stuck with.

    Playing as badly as we are, with a hand as good as ours, is stupidity bordering on sabotage.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,517
    edited March 21

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    Another option was to pace ourselves through our North Sea riches, and invest it into future returns and securities, like Norway did.

    UK went mad at it, blowing the windfall on cheaper economic costs, lower taxes, and other things like the “triple ratchet” on pensions.

    What is commercially and technically viable to now get out the UK basins, especially the Gas one, is next to nothing.
    In other words: it’s far Too late to be more like Norway.

    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.

    There will always be UK gas under the North Sea, like we have coal too. But just like coal industry, the UK North Sea Gas industry is dead because the commercial cost and technical difficulties extracting the last bits prevents us from having one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,449

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    Another option was to pace ourselves through our North Sea riches, and invest it into future returns and securities, like Norway did.

    UK went mad at it, blowing the windfall on cheaper economic costs, lower taxes, and other things like the “triple ratchet” on pensions.

    What is commercially and technically viable to now get out the UK basins, especially the Gas one, is next to nothing.
    In other words: it’s far Too late to be more like Norway.

    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Sorry but that's simply not true. We have an experienced offshore industry voice on here who can tell you exactly why the industry is on its arse, and it has nothing to do with the reserves not being there.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 963

    Don't do this Dems. FFS.

    Run a full on primary. Find someone else.

    How many indies are going to choke on this?

    Talerico?


    Josh Barro
    @jbarro

    "First Partner" is such an annoying title choice from Gavin Newsom's wife. Pretentious and clinical at the same time.

    https://x.com/jbarro/status/2035056428621189622

    I actually like the move to First Partner.
    I do too, but I think progressives need to understand, at this moment, we are essentially conservatives defending the current order. Otherwise much may be lost.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,499
    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849
    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
    Makes me think of my biggest pet peeve, which is when people (meant positively or negatively) refer to the UK/Great Britain as a 'small island/country'.

    No we are not. Great Britain is a very very large island

    And whilst it is true we are not a very big country by area, we are in fact still a very big country by population - nowhere near the big beasts of India/China, sure, and far away from your USA/Nigeria types, but still a lot bigger than most countries in the world.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,420
    5 live reporting that cucumber and tomato price rises are imminent

    Rocket to rocket!!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,089
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
    Makes me think of my biggest pet peeve, which is when people (meant positively or negatively) refer to the UK/Great Britain as a 'small island/country'.

    No we are not. Great Britain is a very very large island

    And whilst it is true we are not a very big country by area, we are in fact still a very big country by population - nowhere near the big beasts of India/China, sure, and far away from your USA/Nigeria types, but still a lot bigger than most countries in the world.
    In my long list of pet peeves, this is also mine. If Great Britain is a 'small island' the list of medium sized and large islands is very short indeed.
    I think because we live on an island and take it for granted, people just don't appreciate what an unusually large island Great Britain is.
    Agree with the rest of your point also.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,517
    kinabalu said:

    The Mail on Sunday

    Sarah Ferguson explored a TV project to clone the late Queen’s corgis, with replicas sold worldwide. Talks with Hollywood producers framed it as a way to raise funds. Critics cite welfare and ethics concerns, noting pet cloning is costly, uncertain and controversial.

    The Sunday Telegraph

    Israeli government explains to Starmer that Iranian missiles can now hit UK, and encourage UK to join with them in the National Interest of UK Security. Starmer and his government doing their best to cover this up, and hide the facts behind: security concerns restricts what can be discussed.

    I'd say it's more Israel and its government doing their best to drag the UK into a conflict they started for exclusively their own purposes.
    But you concede, it can be seen both ways, and yourselves and others who like your post, bring all sorts of longstanding bias to your answer?

    This is one two governments can go in two very different ways answering - like Labour under Blair answered the same question of rogue state seeking/close to weapons of mass destruction, by joining USA action. Only Spain in Europe agreed.

    The SundayTimes also goes big on Iran’s intercontinental ballistic weapons, that could carry warheads of mass destruction, used against UK’s Chagos base.
    The Subtext from all these headlines in the most influential of papers is explicitly clear.
    This world threat now totally justifies and excuses the Israeli and US action. And considering it’s just as much threat to us, and it’s our fight too, why are we letting US & Israel do the difficult, expensive, fighting and dying bit alone, on our behalf?
    Will the UK Conservative Party under Patel and Badenoch pick this ball up from their friends, and run with it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,849
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
    Makes me think of my biggest pet peeve, which is when people (meant positively or negatively) refer to the UK/Great Britain as a 'small island/country'.

    No we are not. Great Britain is a very very large island

    And whilst it is true we are not a very big country by area, we are in fact still a very big country by population - nowhere near the big beasts of India/China, sure, and far away from your USA/Nigeria types, but still a lot bigger than most countries in the world.
    In my long list of pet peeves, this is also mine. If Great Britain is a 'small island' the list of medium sized and large islands is very short indeed.
    I think because we live on an island and take it for granted, people just don't appreciate what an unusually large island Great Britain is.
    Agree with the rest of your point also.
    I like that Greenland is by far the largest island in the world (not including continental landmasses obviously), and is distorted to seem even more ridiculously massive because of Mercator.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,499
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
    Makes me think of my biggest pet peeve, which is when people (meant positively or negatively) refer to the UK/Great Britain as a 'small island/country'.

    No we are not. Great Britain is a very very large island

    And whilst it is true we are not a very big country by area, we are in fact still a very big country by population - nowhere near the big beasts of India/China, sure, and far away from your USA/Nigeria types, but still a lot bigger than most countries in the world.
    In fact, only two islands on the planet have a higher popluation: Honshu (103m) and Java (150m).
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,737
    Hide six balls in a vessel (5,2)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,749
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    kle4 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    Is Gas cheaper to produce? No, renewable energy is consistently cheaper to produce than gas-fired power.
    Why is Electricity expensive? Because the price is set by expensive gas-fired generation, not the cheaper renewables.

    Generation Costs: Renewables are Cheaper
    Cost of Production: New onshore wind and solar projects are among the cheapest forms of electricity generation in the UK. Once built, the fuel (wind/sun) is free.
    Gas Expense: Gas-fired power plants have high and volatile running costs because they must purchase fuel, often setting the highest price in the market.
    Contracted Prices: New offshore wind projects have seen costs drop significantly, often delivering power at prices below new gas plants.

    Despite renewable generation being cheaper, gas often makes electricity more expensive due to the UK's market structure:
    The Marginal Price Mechanism: The UK electricity market operates on a "marginal pricing" system. This means the price of all electricity is set by the last and most expensive source needed to meet demand, which is frequently gas.
    Gas Sets the Price: According to recent data, gas sets the wholesale price of electricity around 98% of the time. Even if the majority of electricity comes from wind, the final, expensive unit of gas determines the price for everything.
    Green Levies: A significant portion of electricity bills (roughly 23% in some estimates) includes "green levies" to fund renewable projects, adding to the cost compared to direct gas, which has much lower levies.

    Hope these facts help you get the big picture right, Lucky 🙂
    They're not facts dear. They're the shite that you get when you ask an LLM questions and don't bother yourself to query the results. It hasn't even given you numbers!

    The facts are quite clearly laid out in the Substack I helpfully linked to.
    An issue, as I understand it, is partly that Gas in UK is effectively on standby as the fuel of last resort all the time for the renewables. It costs to start and then shut down a gas turbine compared to just running it 24/7.

    If only we had followed the French and built 20 nuke stations in the 1970s/80s
    If an MP, Party Leader, or anyone on PB wants to say “we should be more like Norway right now” the only correct response is the same as at the end of Their Will Be Blood: their head smashed in with a bowling pin for being so fucking ignorant about how this one has already played out.
    Or to ask if they've invented a time machine.
    Or if they understand we have twelve times the population of Norway for roughly the same chunk of resources, so the discussion is moot. Or 11/12ths moot.
    Makes me think of my biggest pet peeve, which is when people (meant positively or negatively) refer to the UK/Great Britain as a 'small island/country'.

    No we are not. Great Britain is a very very large island

    And whilst it is true we are not a very big country by area, we are in fact still a very big country by population - nowhere near the big beasts of India/China, sure, and far away from your USA/Nigeria types, but still a lot bigger than most countries in the world.
    I judge countries on how brightly they shine on the Strava heat map. The UK is a beacon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,595
    edited 12:01AM

    rcs1000 said:

    There are positives from this war, even if we do see energy prices go gaga.

    We could be pretty self-sufficient as a nation. And have made huge strides forward in recent years. Reform fuckheads smashed the Milliband / Cameron / May / Boris / Sunak consensus on renewables. But "lets get rid of wind and solar and use more oil and gas" looks not just really stupid but practically traitorous.

    Whilst I wholly agree with the voices saying lets drill more oil / gas, those same voices also lean towards "instead of renewables". It should be "in addition to renewables"

    Not sure I have seen many people on here say Iintead of renewables.

    Most of the commentary has been instead of importing oil and gas. Something with which I think you agree.

    The fuckhead - to use your rather florid term - is Miliband who somehow thinks importing hydrocarbons is more climate friendly than using our own.
    I didn't say on here. But out there in politics world Reform fuckheads - and they are fuckheads - have filled people's head with all kinds of guff about renewables.

    Milliband is a dick, but he is less wrong than Tice et al who want us to turn our energy security over to Putin.
    There is a lot of guff spoken about renewables - the biggest piece of guff about them being that they are cheaper than gas. This is a provable untruth, but it is still repeated with the same enthusiasm as a North Korean ovation for Kim Jong Un.

    A 2025 Substack by David Turver has this useful table (you may have to blow it up if PB does a micropic):

    https://davidturver.substack.com/p/renewables-are-more-expensive-than-gas

    Now, granted, this was in May 2025.

    The current gas price has shot through the roof - AI has it currently at £126 per megawatt hour. That makes it still cheaper than any renewable bar solar on CFD.
    So, I'm a little confused by his analysis.

    For natural gas he has the cost as #75 per MW/h, which is #61 fuel, and #15 carbon credits.

    Which raises a little bit of a question: like how are you capturing operating and capital costs? #75 might be the marginal cost of production for an existing gas plant (i.e. the point at which the value of electricity exceeds the cost of fuel and carbon credits).

    But it's not a fully loaded price. Nobody would build a CCGT if you only got the price of fuel plus the price of carbon credits. You need to get your capital and operational costs covered too.

    So, it seems he's comparing the cost of energy from existing plants (excluding operating costs), agains the fully loaded cost of a KwH from other sources. He also doesn't seem to capture capacity payments in there, which is a little lazy.
    As I understand it, capacity payments are paid to gas and other reliable generators to provide power where there is no generation from intermittent renewables. Since they would not be necessary without intermittent renewables, it would be misleading to add them to the price per megawatt hour of gas - they are in fact a hidden cost of renewable generation. If that is what you mean, it is dealt with at some length in the article.

    I would assume that his costings for 'fuel' include plant running costs. If you doubt this and think he's made a mistake, what's your estiimated addition? £1? £5?

    You seem to basically acknowledge the reasoning is sound.
    I think the capacity payments work in the favour of natural gas, and I am -in general- a big fan of CCGTs and natural gas fired power generation. I just think you want to have six months of domestic storage, so that -in the event that there is an event like the current one in the Straits- then there is ample domestic supply of natural gas for power generation in the medium term. I don't believe that such storage should be particularly expensive, albeit my knowledge of suitable UK geological structures is not as good as it could be. But I do know that across Europe (and outside the UK) such storage is common.

    CCGTs are (a) low capital cost, (b) low maintenance cost, (c) highly efficient, (d) dispatchable (so power when you need it), and (e) relatively non-polluting. Unlike nuclear, there is no clean-up cost, and your plant is simply never offline for unscheduled maintenance.

    They also mesh well with renewables: if the the sun is shining and the wind isn't blowing, then they simply turn off. If it's nighttime in winter, and the wind isn't blowing, or if power is needed right now... well, they can spin up that primary cycle incredibly quickly.

    That said: you see that table the guy did? If he's done it in 2015, then the gap between solar and gas would have been 20x, not 2x. In the intervening decade, the gap between solar and gas fell 90%. The cost of panel production is only going in one direction. Solar will keep taking a larger and larger share of electricity production -even without any kind of subsidies of CfDs or FITs- because if you put it on your roof, it's offsetting a cost. It's therefore effectively tax free income.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,589
    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    This is an incredible statement from a British Foreign Secretary. Literally acknowledges our interests, allies, global partners, global shipping and the wider Middle East are under direct attack from a hostile state. Then emphasises we will not take offensive action to deter it."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2035397459187224746
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,380
    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2035504529794277839

    President Donald J. Trump has posted to his Truth Social platform warning that if Iran fails to reopen the Strait of Hormuz within 48 hours, the US will begin targeting Iranian power plants. The message was posted at 7:44pm EST.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,030

    The Mail on Sunday

    Sarah Ferguson explored a TV project to clone the late Queen’s corgis, with replicas sold worldwide. Talks with Hollywood producers framed it as a way to raise funds. Critics cite welfare and ethics concerns, noting pet cloning is costly, uncertain and controversial.

    Did they ask InGen to do that one?
    What is "costly, uncertain and controversial" about cloning animals? I can see the argument that the DNA is the intellectual property of the Crown (so should not be done without Royal consent), but it's been decades since Dolly the Sheep.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,589
    BBC: Trump says if Iran doesn't open the strait within 48 hours he'll obliterate Iranian energy plants.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,174
    Andy_JS said:

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    This is an incredible statement from a British Foreign Secretary. Literally acknowledges our interests, allies, global partners, global shipping and the wider Middle East are under direct attack from a hostile state. Then emphasises we will not take offensive action to deter it."

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2035397459187224746

    We’re not strong enough to take them on. They’re too big and we depend on them to maintain most of our weaponry.
  • I’m honestly feeling really depressed about what this war is doing :(
  • https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2035280623808413826

    Lots of interesting stuff in here.

    — Policy proposals being examined include shifting the tax burden away from salaried work toward land and economic rent-seeking, merging employees’ NI with income tax, reforming council tax and creating new incentives for entrepreneurship and risk-taking. It also argues for a targeted deregulation push and an energy policy which refocuses the clean energy transition on driving down costs for households and industry, including moving levies off bills and a sprint for cheap electrification.

    But if Labour did any of these I’d be happy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,825

    I’m honestly feeling really depressed about what this war is doing :(

    It frightens me too. The leaders of the US, Israel, Iran, and Russia are in love with war.

    During the Cold War, both sides were careful not to step over the brink. That restraint is now gone.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,436
    edited 3:13AM
    Sean_F said:

    I’m honestly feeling really depressed about what this war is doing :(

    It frightens me too. The leaders of the US, Israel, Iran, and Russia are in love with war.

    During the Cold War, both sides were careful not to step over the brink. That restraint is now gone.
    I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that if Trump was leader then we’d have had full on nuclear war.

    I don’t agree with a lot of what various Republican and Tory leaders have done in the past however I think they were mostly decent people and followed some kind of ideology. But they were crucially mentally sound, reliable and predictable.

    Not Trump though. Apparently his unpredictability is his best asset. Which I can sort of see until it comes to an actual war where the only result seems to be utter chaos and destruction of the world economy.

    I’ve got no doubt Labour is going to get punished for the war in some form however unlike in 2008 when I can sort of see the arguments the Tories made (without agreeing), this is entirely of the US’s making. They did not need to do any of this.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,825

    Sean_F said:

    I’m honestly feeling really depressed about what this war is doing :(

    It frightens me too. The leaders of the US, Israel, Iran, and Russia are in love with war.

    During the Cold War, both sides were careful not to step over the brink. That restraint is now gone.
    I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that if Trump was leader then we’d have had full on nuclear war.

    I don’t agree with a lot of what various Republican and Tory leaders have done in the past however I think they were mostly decent people and followed some kind of ideology. But they were crucially mentally sound, reliable and predictable.

    Not Trump though. Apparently his unpredictability is his best asset. Which I can sort of see until it comes to an actual war where the only result seems to be utter chaos and destruction of the world economy.

    I’ve got no doubt Labour is going to get punished for the war in some form however unlike in 2008 when I can sort of see the arguments the Tories made (without agreeing), this is entirely of the US’s making. They did not need to do any of this.
    The Iranian regime is vile. But it was contained. Now it has to fight to the bitter end.
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