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This bet makes me disgusted in myself – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,837
    nico67 said:

    Reform are using the same Maga playbook .

    They hate the same groups in society as a majority of their voters so as long as you keep the hate going they’ll stay onside even as you enact other policies that will harm them .

    Hoping Trump getting a kicking by his base as the deluded see the rights rubs off on our voters here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Is this another "coalition of the willing"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,395

    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.

    If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill.
    And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.

    The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
    I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.

    Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
    We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.

    The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.

    Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.

    Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
    "Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest."

    It is way narrower than that. He is in favour of a very narrow, purely Trump Crime Family self interest.

    You think he gives a toss about his voters? About the US military? About those bozos wearing his MAGA hats?
    This makes Trump both easier to buy off - $1bn is a lot for him personally, but peanuts for the US as a whole - and more difficult for democracies in particular to buy off, because we frown at bribery.
    How did the Gulf states' bribes work out for them ?

    There's no point bribing Trump, as he'll just take the money and do as he pleases.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,169
    Scott_xP said:

    @adamjschwarz.bsky.social‬

    It's three weeks into Trump's Iran War and 10 days since he declared victory.

    Iran's enriched uranium has not been secured, the Strait of Hormuz remains blocked by Iran, US sanctions on Iran's oil have been lifted for the first since 1996 and Iran is extending its missile range to record distances.

    D. R. Thorpe says Eden's four goals were to secure the canal; to make sure it remained open and that oil shipments would continue; to depose Nasser; and to prevent the Soviets from gaining influence. "The immediate consequence of the crisis was that the Suez Canal was blocked, oil supplies were interrupted, Nasser's position as the leader of Arab nationalism was strengthened, and the way was left open for Russian intrusion into the Middle East.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Eden#Legacy
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,206
    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    edited 2:00PM

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    Lots of zoom meeting stating in strong terms how this breaches international law....and if they dont knock it off take Iran through the international courts and impose sanctions in their oil...and ring China / India and tell them would they mind stop buying all the Iranian oil.

    That or threaten to send UKs secret weapon, Boaty McBoaty Face.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,063
    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    So the rest of the world is dragged into trying to clear up the USraeli mess.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,776

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    Lots of zoom meeting stating in strong terms how this breaches international law....and if they dont knock it off take Iran through the international courts and impose sanctions in their oil...and ring China / India and tell them would they mind stop buying all the Iranian oil.

    That or threaten to send UKs secret weapon, Boaty McBoaty Face.
    Also a big security conference TV opportunity where the leaders with the worst ratings back home will be congratulated on their Statesmanship.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,395
    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,776
    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    Ministers are said to be furious klaxon
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    Rolling the pitch for loads more tax rises.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,837

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    Threaten to mine the Straits. Nobody gets through then....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653
    Douglas Murray in the New York Post:

    https://x.com/avivaklompas/status/2034945325970944243

    Tucker Carlson’s podcast has become a remorseless roll call of Holocaust deniers, antisemites, Islamic extremists and World War II revisionists.

    While attacking Trump, Carlson eagerly softball-interviews people who love both Hitler and Stalin.

    While accusing everyone else of being obsessed with Israel, Carlson has obsessed about nothing else.

    While saying “We’re not allowed to talk about Jews,” he has talked about nothing but Jews.

    This obsession has culminated in a total derangement over the president’s Iran policy.


    https://nypost.com/2026/03/19/opinion/deranged-tucker-carlson-backstabs-trump/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    edited 2:12PM
    Sandpit said:

    Douglas Murray in the New York Post:

    https://x.com/avivaklompas/status/2034945325970944243

    Tucker Carlson’s podcast has become a remorseless roll call of Holocaust deniers, antisemites, Islamic extremists and World War II revisionists.

    While attacking Trump, Carlson eagerly softball-interviews people who love both Hitler and Stalin.

    While accusing everyone else of being obsessed with Israel, Carlson has obsessed about nothing else.

    While saying “We’re not allowed to talk about Jews,” he has talked about nothing but Jews.

    This obsession has culminated in a total derangement over the president’s Iran policy.


    https://nypost.com/2026/03/19/opinion/deranged-tucker-carlson-backstabs-trump/

    Why Woger is a keen listener is total mystery.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,395

    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    Ministers are said to be furious klaxon
    Well, it's probably true.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,395
    If there's a third Trump administration, they'll probably start appointing the extraterrestrials themselves.

    This man said he was teleported to a Waffle House and his car was "lifted up" with him while he was driving and dropped in a ditch near a church....he's now the head of FEMA's Office of Response and Recovery.
    https://x.com/covie_93/status/2035123306941096327
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,421
    edited 2:15PM
    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,963

    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    Rolling the pitch for loads more tax rises.
    When those tax rises come, they should be named the Trump Tax and the Israel Tax.

    At this moment, the most effective action that the UK could take in support of its desire for an end to this conflict would not be any military one in support of Trump's war but heavy punitive sanctions against Israel in order to target the tail that appears to be wagging the Trump dog. The biggest threat to the UK's economic security at this point is Netanyahu.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,956

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    Then why are you trying to prompt a discussion on the subject?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,584

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    Why?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    edited 2:17PM
    Nigelb said:

    If there's a third Trump administration, they'll probably start appointing the extraterrestrials themselves.

    This man said he was teleported to a Waffle House and his car was "lifted up" with him while he was driving and dropped in a ditch near a church....he's now the head of FEMA's Office of Response and Recovery.
    https://x.com/covie_93/status/2035123306941096327

    Perfectly possible...have you been to a waffle house in the middle.of the night, most of those hanging around dont look very human. Most are definitely off this planet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    The Afroman trial was fun to watch.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    Why?
    Because we’re having an argument about the amount of jury trials we should have. And it’s not going to make a very substantial difference.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,753
    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 523
    edited 2:27PM

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    Gamblers surely prefer a Jury over State led decision making?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527

    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
    Dont they also have something like 95% conviction rate?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,206
    Sandpit said:

    I find it really hard to get animated about jury trials.

    The Afroman trial was fun to watch.
    More fun than Brighton v Liverpool
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,089
    Nigelb said:

    If there's a third Trump administration, they'll probably start appointing the extraterrestrials themselves.

    This man said he was teleported to a Waffle House and his car was "lifted up" with him while he was driving and dropped in a ditch near a church....he's now the head of FEMA's Office of Response and Recovery.
    https://x.com/covie_93/status/2035123306941096327

    I hope he checked whether that was covered by his car insurance before he made that claim.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,753
    edited 2:33PM

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Starmer ends up in the worst of all worlds .

    Which seems to sum up his premiership !

    If you tether yourself to an incontinent donkey you're going to get showered. To the great British public Starmer has joinied Trumps madcap army.. The fact that he's been assigned the job of cleaning the toilets just makes us look worse.

    Would Carney or Macron have volunteered?
    You are facing down an economic event of Biblical proportions thanks to Trump and Bibi's ghost. I can't see that doing nothing to defend access to the straits is an option. How to strategize that without loss of military personnel is quite the conundrum.
    Apart from anything else, I cannot see a way for us to keep the Strait open by military force. If 2 carrier groups of the US Navy cannot, then how can we?

    The only realistic way to open the strait is through negotiation with Tehran. In which case bombing Iran is unlikely to help.
    Overnight Iran launched 2 ballistic missiles at Diego Garcia 4,000 kilometres away

    London is 4,400 kilometres way from Iran

    Let that sink in

    Starmer promises increased defence spending but no defence review yet and no agreement with the treasury

    Trump has created the most extraordinary and dangerous crisis for he wes,t and in particular UK and European defence spending requiring billions of immediate invesrtment

    Labour and the treasury are complaining about how unlucky they are, but welcome to the world of Johnson and the conservatives who saw covid and the war in Ukraine erupt on their watch and we all saw what happened in 2024

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war?CMP=share_btn_url
    The U.K. will come under direct military attack within the next few years.

    Despite BAe/LockMart trying to claim different* ballistic missiles are quite cheap.

    *the quote for an SLBM from BAe at the time of the Trident decision was for more money than SpaceX, ULA and Blue Origin spent on developing orbital launch. All together.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653

    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
    “Don’t Talk to the Police”. This video is now 14 years old.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

    The FBI are the worst of them, for exactly the reasons you say. Don’t ever talk to the police without your lawyer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574
    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    It's a justified emotion tbf.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570
    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    "Or else we will be very, very angry with you. And we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are!"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,753

    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
    Dont they also have something like 95% conviction rate?
    Conviction rates are uniformly high in most countries - they only charge and send to court dead certainties. The movie stuff about 50/50 cases is just that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,395
    Peak vigor from Donald Trump getting off Air Force One to go golfing in Florida again on the taxpayer dime.
    https://x.com/ArtCandee/status/2035135968261677227
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,436
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    It's a justified emotion tbf.
    All so unfair when things happen in the world and it reveals what a shit state we're in isn't it?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,593
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, in genuinely good news, the UK is currently running at 12 GW solar generation.

    OK, it's midday on a sunshine day, but it's only March, and the UK record (last July) is only 14 GW. Someone must be doing something right.

    Unfortunately...


    China produces a bit more than 6/7ths of the worlds solar panels. The solar revolution in energy supply comes to a crashing halt if China invades Taiwan and we decide we don't like it.
    Something of a problem, though there's nothing intrinsically difficult about making a solar panel- other countries have just decided not to bother.

    More importantly, panels are a one-off sale. Once you have them, they carry on generating for decades. Hydrocarbons are a repeat purchase, which is why producers have consumers over a barrel, so to speak.
    Somewhat ironically, what you need more than anything to make solar panels is a cheap source of energy.
    Technically it's the purifying silicon that needs the cheap energy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527
    edited 2:42PM
    Nigelb said:

    Peak vigor from Donald Trump getting off Air Force One to go golfing in Florida again on the taxpayer dime.
    https://x.com/ArtCandee/status/2035135968261677227

    For an 80 year old guy who is overweight, eats poorly, doesn't exercise, and in a job where you do media appearances daily, I am not really sure what I am supposed to be looking at here? Man walks down stairs after flight. My father who was super fit his whole life at 80 couldn't do aircraft stairs as well as Trump is doing there.

    Or it is that he is golfing again? As he does every weekend. GIven he used to bang on and on about Obama golfing too much as president.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570
    Nigelb said:

    Peak vigor from Donald Trump getting off Air Force One to go golfing in Florida again on the taxpayer dime.
    https://x.com/ArtCandee/status/2035135968261677227

    VIGOUR!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,956

    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
    Relevant for those in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574
    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,837
    Liverpool woeful.
  • This war has been an absolute disaster. And all predicted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,527

    HYUFD said:

    Kemi Badenoch needs to fire Priti Patel.

    EXCLUSIVE: Tory ex-Home Secretary Priti Patel BLOCKED the FBI from quizzing Andrew over Epstein

    Priti Patel prevented the FBI from questioning Andrew about his links to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, despite officers having 'documentary evidence suggesting he knew about sex trafficking'


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-ex-home-secretary-priti-36901236

    And the Americans refused to send Anne Sacoolas to the UK after she killed Harry Dunn for her court appearance
    Something to know about the FBI

    They do the following

    1) interview someone for hours, tons of repeated questions
    2) repeat over multiple days, with gaps of weeks between.
    3) if any of your answers differ even slightly, they then charge you with lying to a Federal Agent, which is a serious crime.

    Never volunteer for an interview with the FBI, without serious, expert legal advice to make sure your story is right.
    Dont they also have something like 95% conviction rate?
    Conviction rates are uniformly high in most countries - they only charge and send to court dead certainties. The movie stuff about 50/50 cases is just that.
    Outside of dodgy regimes, I believe Japan has the highest. You get charged in Japan you are going down.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,837
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Yebbut, Trump is going to take Kharg Island...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    It's a justified emotion tbf.
    All so unfair when things happen in the world and it reveals what a shit state we're in isn't it?
    The anger won't be UK specific.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570
    "It tells me goose-stepping morons like you* should start reading books instead of burning them!"

    *Not "you", Malmesbury, of course. Colonel Vogel.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574

    Nigelb said:

    Impotent anger.

    Anger grows among UK ministers amid fears Iran war could jeopardise Britain’s fragile finances
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/uk-ministers-begin-contingency-planning-amid-fears-for-economic-effects-of-iran-war

    Rolling the pitch for loads more tax rises.
    You expect them not to mention that a major oil shock will hit the economy and public finances?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,968

    I do hope they don't come up with Mandeltown.

    Trumpton is what I would worry about.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,744
    Brixian59 said:

    Turns out the attack on DG was a few days ago and Starmer couldnt be bothered to inform parliament or us.

    So what

    He was probably told at least 24 hours after, the Yanks seemed oblivious to it.

    It's a pain in the fucking ass bit of rock with a runway on it.

    And strategically important for many readons.. Thatl god you aren't running our armed forces.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,802

    Liverpool woeful.

    That's been the case for at least 200 years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574
    edited 2:54PM

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    Lots of zoom meeting stating in strong terms how this breaches international law....and if they dont knock it off take Iran through the international courts and impose sanctions in their oil...and ring China / India and tell them would they mind stop buying all the Iranian oil.

    That or threaten to send UKs secret weapon, Boaty McBoaty Face.
    Ok, take the piss out of diplomacy, but what are you suggesting should be the approach?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,376
    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,169

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.

    Blimey. He's right about something at last.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.

    How about the consequences of striking Ukraine?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,216
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    Lots of zoom meeting stating in strong terms how this breaches international law....and if they dont knock it off take Iran through the international courts and impose sanctions in their oil...and ring China / India and tell them would they mind stop buying all the Iranian oil.

    That or threaten to send UKs secret weapon, Boaty McBoaty Face.
    Ok, take the piss out of diplomacy, but what are you suggesting should be the approach?
    There isn't much nuance from the PB Tories. Starmer got it wholly wrong from day one whilst Kemi/Boris/ name you favourite Tory called it right from the start and any changes to their narrative that have been made have been done so in accordance with dynamic circumstances.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,742

    Meanwhile, in genuinely good news, the UK is currently running at 12 GW solar generation.

    OK, it's midday on a sunshine day, but it's only March, and the UK record (last July) is only 14 GW. Someone must be doing something right.

    Unfortunately...


    China produces a bit more than 6/7ths of the worlds solar panels. The solar revolution in energy supply comes to a crashing halt if China invades Taiwan and we decide we don't like it.
    Something of a problem, though there's nothing intrinsically difficult about making a solar panel- other countries have just decided not to bother.

    More importantly, panels are a one-off sale. Once you have them, they carry on generating for decades. Hydrocarbons are a repeat purchase, which is why producers have consumers over a barrel, so to speak.
    We need to get moving on this ASAP. The Dutch have 6x as much solar (per capita) as we do. Estonia 4x. Even Norway has more.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,504
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @adamjschwarz.bsky.social‬

    It's three weeks into Trump's Iran War and 10 days since he declared victory.

    Iran's enriched uranium has not been secured, the Strait of Hormuz remains blocked by Iran, US sanctions on Iran's oil have been lifted for the first since 1996 and Iran is extending its missile range to record distances.

    D. R. Thorpe says Eden's four goals were to secure the canal; to make sure it remained open and that oil shipments would continue; to depose Nasser; and to prevent the Soviets from gaining influence. "The immediate consequence of the crisis was that the Suez Canal was blocked, oil supplies were interrupted, Nasser's position as the leader of Arab nationalism was strengthened, and the way was left open for Russian intrusion into the Middle East.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Eden#Legacy
    Suez and this shitfest are very like the 1812 war too. The US started it to stop UK impressing US sailors and to stop them demanding US ships had to stop and pay tariffs in British ports and hopefully gain a bit of territory on the side.

    At the end of the war they still dint overturn the British actions, territory returned as before and all that happened was it cost a lot of money, lives, increased Canadian determination and identity to remain not American and ultimately the White House burnt. Perhaps a similar ending ahead.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Yebbut, Trump is going to take Kharg Island...
    Yes, hearing this. Hoping it's wrong and we get something more like my scenario.

    Warning to you and all pundits, if he hears phrases like "Trump is gonna take Kharg Island" it will only encourage him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,968

    Liverpool woeful.

    That's been the case for at least 200 years.
    They've only be around for 133 years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,169
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @adamjschwarz.bsky.social‬

    It's three weeks into Trump's Iran War and 10 days since he declared victory.

    Iran's enriched uranium has not been secured, the Strait of Hormuz remains blocked by Iran, US sanctions on Iran's oil have been lifted for the first since 1996 and Iran is extending its missile range to record distances.

    D. R. Thorpe says Eden's four goals were to secure the canal; to make sure it remained open and that oil shipments would continue; to depose Nasser; and to prevent the Soviets from gaining influence. "The immediate consequence of the crisis was that the Suez Canal was blocked, oil supplies were interrupted, Nasser's position as the leader of Arab nationalism was strengthened, and the way was left open for Russian intrusion into the Middle East.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Eden#Legacy
    Suez and this shitfest are very like the 1812 war too. The US started it to stop UK impressing US sailors and to stop them demanding US ships had to stop and pay tariffs in British ports and hopefully gain a bit of territory on the side.

    At the end of the war they still dint overturn the British actions, territory returned as before and all that happened was it cost a lot of money, lives, increased Canadian determination and identity to remain not American and ultimately the White House burnt. Perhaps a similar ending ahead.
    Trump's already given it a headstart by knocking half of it down.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,613
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    If Trump was a Prime Minister that might have worked. Sack him disgrace him get rid of all the hawks who led him on and in a few years it might have settled down. As it is no such get out exists
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,157

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.

    There’s a saying about a broken clock……
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,284

    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.

    If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill.
    And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.

    The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
    I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.

    Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
    A treacherous friend is a greater evil than a visible enemy.
    Rhetorical nonsense.
    What got you out of bed on the wrong side today?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,206
    edited 3:15PM
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Yebbut, Trump is going to take Kharg Island...
    Yes, hearing this. Hoping it's wrong and we get something more like my scenario.

    Warning to you and all pundits, if he hears phrases like "Trump is gonna take Kharg Island" it will only encourage him.
    Good.

    Better than him TACOing out.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574
    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    If Trump was a Prime Minister that might have worked. Sack him disgrace him get rid of all the hawks who led him on and in a few years it might have settled down. As it is no such get out exists
    I'm not exactly predicting it (not with the vile characters on all sides of this thing) but I do think it's possible.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,613
    I'd love to find out the name of the school/headmistress
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,741
    Any betting in the UK on the upcoming Hungarian election? If so, what are the odds?

    Are the Hungarian polls, collectively, biased?

    (For the record: Kudos to whoever revealed that fake assassination plot. I would like to think it was a Western intelligence agency -- and one that is smart enough not to reveal its role.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,753
    Roger said:

    I'd love to find out the name of the school/headmistress
    If it’s anything the situation with schools in London, I doubt you’d get much comfort from that.

    I helped setup the library in a primary school (my daughter was going there). The parents who got upset about books came from several groups - and were quite predictable as to who they were.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,659
    How interesting, one for the conspiracy theorists:

    Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) proposed staging an assassination attempt on Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in order to boost his chances in the April parliamentary elections - The Washington Post.

    https://bsky.app/profile/kateinkharkiv.bsky.social/post/3mhl3rd5u7s2b
  • So Kemi Badenoch is accusing the government of a U-turn on Iran.

    Hahahaha
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,574

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Yebbut, Trump is going to take Kharg Island...
    Yes, hearing this. Hoping it's wrong and we get something more like my scenario.

    Warning to you and all pundits, if he hears phrases like "Trump is gonna take Kharg Island" it will only encourage him.
    Good.

    Better than him TACOing out.
    No, not good. But I will say one thing in your vein. Despite this shitshow being unjustified, reckless and criminal if - a big if but let's go with it for these purposes - if it leads to a materially better (for its people) Iran, I'll be happy about that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570
    Foxy said:

    How interesting, one for the conspiracy theorists:

    Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) proposed staging an assassination attempt on Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in order to boost his chances in the April parliamentary elections - The Washington Post.

    https://bsky.app/profile/kateinkharkiv.bsky.social/post/3mhl3rd5u7s2b

    A bit like with Trump in July '24?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,659

    Foxy said:

    How interesting, one for the conspiracy theorists:

    Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) proposed staging an assassination attempt on Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in order to boost his chances in the April parliamentary elections - The Washington Post.

    https://bsky.app/profile/kateinkharkiv.bsky.social/post/3mhl3rd5u7s2b

    A bit like with Trump in July '24?
    Never crossed my mind...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,791

    So Kemi Badenoch is accusing the government of a U-turn on Iran.

    Hahahaha

    As I understand it she wants an explanation why Starmer had not announced the attack on Diego Garcia before the US media
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,741
    Here's the WaPo article on the faked assassination proposal: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2026/03/21/hungary-election-interference-russia-orban/

    And what they say about how they obtained the story:
    Officers from the intelligence service, or SVR, suggested that drastic action might be necessary — a strategy they called “the Gamechanger.” In an internal report for the SVR obtained and authenticated by a European intelligence service and reviewed by The Washington Post, the operatives proposed a way to “fundamentally alter the entire paradigm of the election campaign” — “the staging of an assassination attempt on Viktor Orban.”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,539
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    An interesting sign of the times. Ukraine will stop sending recruits abroad for military training because western instructors lack experience in modern combat.

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukraine-stop-sending-troops-abroad-training/

    It's more to do with the unsustainable amount of AWOLs they get in foreign locations. Hundreds a time went missing in Spain. They still wanted to be trained by NATO Instructors (mainly French) because they can't take Ukrainian SNCOs off the front line to do it, they just want it done in Ukraine so gopniks can't leg it.

    Forgot to sat there is an interview on Noviny Live with Mark Francois lookalike Gen. Mezhevikin who is head of Doctrine and Training where he lays all this out. Basically foreign authorities will put no effort into looking for and apprehending the AWOL. It's quite amusing because he's a native Russian speaker who has to gasp and flounder his way through the interview in Ukrainian for reasons.
    Are Russian and Ukrainian vaguely intelligible to speakers of either? Like someone with a strong Geordie accent speaking to someone with a strong Scouse accent for example? Edit to add, not just the accents but words and phrases peculiar to each area.
    They have a fairly high degree of mutual intelligibility. It’s more different than Geordie vs Scouse, but it’s much less different than English vs French.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,710

    Roger said:

    I'd love to find out the name of the school/headmistress
    If it’s anything the situation with schools in London, I doubt you’d get much comfort from that.

    I helped setup the library in a primary school (my daughter was going there). The parents who got upset about books came from several groups - and were quite predictable as to who they were.
    https://youtu.be/YZ_moQRYE7s?si=Ru5LKkMDIcd-g2GH

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,791
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Yebbut, Trump is going to take Kharg Island...
    Yes, hearing this. Hoping it's wrong and we get something more like my scenario.

    Warning to you and all pundits, if he hears phrases like "Trump is gonna take Kharg Island" it will only encourage him.
    Good.

    Better than him TACOing out.
    No, not good. But I will say one thing in your vein. Despite this shitshow being unjustified, reckless and criminal if - a big if but let's go with it for these purposes - if it leads to a materially better (for its people) Iran, I'll be happy about that.
    I do not think any of us wanted this, but trying to undo where we are now is pointless and it will require a collective resolve from the gulf states and the west to get out of this calamity
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,539
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,089
    Bomb Tel Aviv! WWII Middle East Air Offensive

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPluxN4uvc

    It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,791

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    Actually that would be an ideal solution in a perfect world

    Their region their resolution makes common sense
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653
    edited 3:46PM

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    A peace deal with who exactly?

    Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.

    US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,089

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    Possibly but they likely want an imperialist Shia Iran to fuck off even more.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,570

    Bomb Tel Aviv! WWII Middle East Air Offensive

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPluxN4uvc

    It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.

    And the Indians and Russians jointly conquered Iran within 6 days in August 1941...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,539
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    A peace deal with who exactly?

    Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.

    US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
    They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!

    I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,504

    Here's the WaPo article on the faked assassination proposal: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2026/03/21/hungary-election-interference-russia-orban/

    And what they say about how they obtained the story:

    Officers from the intelligence service, or SVR, suggested that drastic action might be necessary — a strategy they called “the Gamechanger.” In an internal report for the SVR obtained and authenticated by a European intelligence service and reviewed by The Washington Post, the operatives proposed a way to “fundamentally alter the entire paradigm of the election campaign” — “the staging of an assassination attempt on Viktor Orban.”
    Weirdly I can’t think of any other recent staged assassination attempts on running for President where a successful attempt would have made the world a better place.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,593

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    Possibly but they likely want an imperialist Shia Iran to fuck off even more.
    They weren't that keen on the imperialistic Shah ruled Persia, either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,753

    Bomb Tel Aviv! WWII Middle East Air Offensive

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPluxN4uvc

    It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.

    Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.

    It's the psychological effects that predominate
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,593
    ydoethur said:

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.

    Blimey. He's right about something at last.
    Just think of what a strong place Putin's Russia would be in right now if they hadn't invaded Ukraine.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,089
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    Possibly but they likely want an imperialist Shia Iran to fuck off even more.
    They weren't that keen on the imperialistic Shah ruled Persia, either.
    Small Arab Sunni states must like an imperialist Shia Persian state as much as the Baltic states like an imperialist Russia.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,614
    Pogocar is the GOAT

    Tom Pidcock though take a bow

    Half a wheel in 6 hours 20 mins
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,791

    Bomb Tel Aviv! WWII Middle East Air Offensive

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPluxN4uvc

    It seems that the Italian air force with a few medium range bombers were able to kill about 10x as many people in Tel Aviv that Iran has managed in multiple wars.

    Ballistic missiles are extremely ineffective in causing actual damage and casualties - the German V2 campaign probably cost them more than the cost of the damage they did.

    It's the psychological effects that predominate
    Killed 6 of our neighbours mind you
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653
    edited 4:10PM
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035368449598226502

    Lavrov says the US is pushing Russia off energy markets, stages coups and eliminates leaders for resources, Venezuela and Iran are purely about oil, Washington's approach to Middle East talks will never work, and the consequences of striking Iran will echo for years.

    Blimey. He's right about something at last.
    Just think of what a strong place Putin's Russia would be in right now if they hadn't invaded Ukraine.
    But they did invade Ukraine, and now they’re minus a million men and Moscow state TV is extolling the virtues of life without internet.

    https://x.com/wartranslated/status/2035078774362886452
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,653

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels.

    Yes, but what are they going to do about it?
    "…to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the Strait."

    Now that the incoming drones and missiles have reduced significantly in recent days, expect the GCC nations to move towards a more offensive phase of their operation. They have navies specifically built towards this problem, and if the US can keep the Apaches and Warthogs flying over the Hormuz area it shouldn’t be massively difficult.

    More important is the insurance issue for civil vessels, AIUI Scott Bessent is working on this at the moment, with presumably Lloyd’s of London also involved.
    I presume the GCC nations would rather the US and Israel just fucked off now and a peace deal was done?
    A peace deal with who exactly?

    Because it definitely won’t be anyone to do with the Iranian regime that’s been bombing them for the past 22 days.

    US and Israel are saving the GCC countries a lot of ammo at the moment.
    They only need that ammo because the US and Israel started bombing Iran!

    I’m sure the GCC are happy to see Iran being taken down a notch, but the war isn’t exactly unfolding to their advantage. A quick end to the war, Iran damaged, the straits of Hormuz open again, that seems like a good result for them. Ongoing war with no clear war aims, is that what they want?
    They’re been waiting and preparing for this month for the past 47 years. A little disruption is worth it to see Iran finally defeated once and for all.

    US and Israel are very much the good guys, and Iran is very much the bad guy.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,391
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Statement from 20 countries including UK and UAE on the Straight of Hormuz.

    https://x.com/mofauae/status/2035326341596446810

    TL:DR F*** off Iran and allow free passage of vessels, or we’ll intervene.

    An agreement on the Straits would be facilitated by the US and Israel stopping the bombing. We could then have victory for Iran (regime still in place), victory for USA and Israel (Iran's military capability diminished) and the ships flowing again. Do this soon and the economic fallout could be mitigated to something less than ruinous.
    Israel would never agree to anything like that.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,142

    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    The nation with the strongest interest in reopening the strait, and with the military power to be able to try, is of course China.

    If the US were to wash its hands of the disaster it has precipitated, then that leaves a vacuum which they might fill.
    And the "nations don't have allies, just interests" crowd might just start thinking about making common cause with them.

    The Chinese leadership is evil, but rational. You can deal with them. The US leadership is evil, and insane.
    I don't think the Chinese or Iranian leadership are comparable to the US leadership in the evil stakes.

    Trump is breaching boundaries and taboos he never should have in a Western country, which shocks us to the core, but his regime isn't totalitarian.
    We believed that the community of interests based on the Atlantic Charter was an alliance of principles, and that our common values mattered. Trump has rejected those common values in favour of a narrow, purely American self interest. From the European point of view, if you had a choice of two offers, one from the USA and one from China, our community of values would have always chosen America. Now, given the United States refuses to accept that community, the alliance is effectively over. Worse, many of the decisions that Trump has taken have not only been taken with no reference to the NATO alliance, several of them have in fact been directly hostile to the interests of the Europeans. In fact Trump has made comments, such as his wish to destroy the Lloyds of London insurance market that are directly contrary to our own national interests. His insults to our PM are simply not acceptable in any forum, while his despicable hostility to Ukraine and his pro Moscow, pro Orban stance is a direct challenge to the interests of the EU.

    The abject incompetence of the attack on Iran gives us a chance to haul in the USA in the short term but if we fail to put some restraint on Trump, then the USA not only ceases to be any kind of ally, but becomes instead a direct strategic competitor. Under such circumstances, we start to make deals that no longer reference a community of interests which no longer holds, but instead we will start to aim to do deals that weaken the American threat. In fact, whatever happens in Iran now, the Europeans have no choice- we can no longer rely on American weapons or political support. We will need to rearm and face the challenge not just of China, but the USA too and that is the irrevocable change that Trump's treachery has caused. When Putin goes, there will be a scramble to get Russia onside- and while that could still be a while off, we already see a conflict of interests- the US wants to keep Russia strong enough to challenge China, even if Putinism is still in the saddle, Europe could only work with Russia after Putin and his system have gone.

    Trump will be remembered with horror, but his poisonous legacy will probably remain.

    Incidentally, re the Trump-Mandelson-Epstein connection: two of the children accusing Trump of abuse in the files have boys names. The full files are, of course, not yet released, but the accusations against Trump in the materials that have been released show a man of almost limitless depravity, especially since it appears that several of the victims seem to have met mysterious deaths.
    Too long and too pompous. Didn't read it.

    Sorry.
    I bow to your expertise on pomposity but how do you know the piece was pompous if you didn't read it?
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