Will the UK’s unelected ruler take the advice of America’s unelected ruler? – politicalbetting.com

david_herdson said:

Roger said:

david_herdson said:

Roger said:

Leon said:

spudgfsh said:

Malmesbury said:

state_go_away said:

There will be of course be no election until 2028/29 . However the mere fact this is being taken semi seriously shows how bad labour have started . A bit of class war has backfired especially regarding farmers and the banal promise of "growth" has especially backfired given the abysmal budget that everyone can see is anti-growth

It's not being taken even semi-seriously by anyone with a brain.

- Calling for another election is fine, as far as I am concerned.
- Getting the House of Commons to debate having another election via enough petition votes is fine.
- The majority of the House voting for a dissolution and another election, this evening. Fine

The last isn't going to happen. Short of Starmer announcing that Trump is the Saviour Of The World - that *might* swing enough Labour MPs against him.

even if SKS is forced to resign as PM, Labour have enough seats to switch to someone else. I can't see it happening.

I had drinks with a labour insider last night. He surprised me by saying that Starmer is already in Trouble, and that if his dire polling does not improve in 18 months labour will remove him

Could be bollocks. My friend is loyal Labour. Centrist

Why come on here with a completely invented story knowing that no one on here believes a word you say?

FWIW, I believe Leon. I don't believe his friend's prediction because - as I noted below - Labour doesn't remove its leaders (not least because it doesn't really have the mechanism to do so).

Think about it. A Labour INSIDER has parroted in the exact same terms what Leon has been repeating ad nauseam since Labour came to power.

The only added extra is that its now been confirmed by a Labour Insider!Like he would even know a LABOUR INSIDER

Hmm. Do I think someone who lives and works in the London media industry knows a Labour member? I guess it's possible.

Roger must think that here in NW1 - or in the Groucho Club - I’ve managed to surround myself with a large group of Farageist friends. That would be quite an achievement, a bit like Roger spending every night in a Wetherspoons

RobD said:

biggles said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend

If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!

Well, yes.

I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.

Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.

How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?

As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.

20? Put a jumper on man!

Mrs Biggles would like you. I go for 17 and she raises it to 20. It oscillates through the day.

Mind you we do also have a coal fire as an affectation.

My parents have it on 18, but only for one hour in the morning and one in the evening. It's like an ice box every time I visit.

My dad, by contrast, goes for 25. It’s like walking into the punishment box in Bridge on the River Kwai.

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MoonRabbit said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MoonRabbit said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Kemi jumps on the bandwagon:

https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1874749990842814606

The time is long overdue for a full national inquiry into the rape gangs scandal.

Trials have taken place all over the country in recent years but no one in authority has joined the dots.

2025 must be the year that the victims start to get justice.

Oh FFS!

Here is the IICSA website - https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html.

Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?

Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?

This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.

What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?

The IICSA Report - nothing because the government - disgracefully - refused to take action on its recommendations. See https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/05/24/kicking-issues-into-the-long-grass/

The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.

Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.

The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.

It is something. By no means enough, of course.

But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.

Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.

This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.

🙂‍↔️ you are clueless.

Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?

Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.

This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.

All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.

Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.

I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.

There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐

It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.

If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.

Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.

The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.

You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.

I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.

What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐

You are correct that the worst part of it is the willingness of people in authority to treat rape as less important than their ideology.

As Terry Pratchett puts it:

“Treating people as things, that’s what sin is …that’s where it begins.”

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MoonRabbit said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MoonRabbit said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Kemi jumps on the bandwagon:

https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1874749990842814606

The time is long overdue for a full national inquiry into the rape gangs scandal.

Trials have taken place all over the country in recent years but no one in authority has joined the dots.

2025 must be the year that the victims start to get justice.

Oh FFS!

Here is the IICSA website - https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html.

Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?

Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?

This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.

What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?

The IICSA Report - nothing because the government - disgracefully - refused to take action on its recommendations. See https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/05/24/kicking-issues-into-the-long-grass/

The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.

Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.

The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.

It is something. By no means enough, of course.

But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.

Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.

This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.

🙂‍↔️ you are clueless.

Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?

Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.

This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.

All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.

Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.

I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.

There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐

It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.

If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.

Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.

The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.

You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.

I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.

What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐

You are correct that the worst part of it is the willingness of people in authority to treat rape as less important than their ideology.

As Terry Pratchett puts it:

“Treating people as things, that’s what sin is …that’s where it begins.”

I've never met anyone who's been anything other than horrified by rape.

But, for some reason, it's considered to be a 'private' crime.

ydoethur said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

spudgfsh said:

Malmesbury said:

state_go_away said:

There will be of course be no election until 2028/29 . However the mere fact this is being taken semi seriously shows how bad labour have started . A bit of class war has backfired especially regarding farmers and the banal promise of "growth" has especially backfired given the abysmal budget that everyone can see is anti-growth

It's not being taken even semi-seriously by anyone with a brain.

- Calling for another election is fine, as far as I am concerned.
- Getting the House of Commons to debate having another election via enough petition votes is fine.
- The majority of the House voting for a dissolution and another election, this evening. Fine

The last isn't going to happen. Short of Starmer announcing that Trump is the Saviour Of The World - that *might* swing enough Labour MPs against him.

even if SKS is forced to resign as PM, Labour have enough seats to switch to someone else. I can't see it happening.

I had drinks with a labour insider last night. He surprised me by saying that Starmer is already in Trouble, and that if his dire polling does not improve in 18 months labour will remove him

Could be bollocks. My friend is loyal Labour. Centrist

It's bollocks. Labour doesn't remove anyone. Ever. They do talk about it a lot though.

Well, they did remove MacDonald but that was only after he'd literally walked out on them and set up government with the Tories.

They removed Lansbury in 1935, but that was as much as anything else because he'd fallen out with the unions.

Lansbury resigned after being humiliated, and - as you mention - losing crucial union support. But even then, he wasn't actively ejected from the leadership.

And it was 90 years ago.

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

Razedabode said:

Musk is looking deranged on X. But I think the mood on there captures *something* that has changed and won’t be going away - and I’ve no idea where it leads

What I do know is that people evidently voted for change / something different, and what it appears is happening with Labour in government is barely any different. The system we have in this country just isn’t fit for purpose.

There is a definite and dramatic vibe shift. The Temple of Woke is collapsing. In America. There are multiple signs everywhere now

What starts there will v likely come here

To paraphrase Harold MacMillan, there is certainly a Wind of Change.

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

Razedabode said:

Musk is looking deranged on X. But I think the mood on there captures *something* that has changed and won’t be going away - and I’ve no idea where it leads

What I do know is that people evidently voted for change / something different, and what it appears is happening with Labour in government is barely any different. The system we have in this country just isn’t fit for purpose.

There is a definite and dramatic vibe shift. The Temple of Woke is collapsing. In America. There are multiple signs everywhere now

What starts there will v likely come here

To paraphrase Harold MacMillan, there is certainly a Wind of Change.

And thank Christ for that.

It's possibly the most pernicious political ideology I've encountered in my lifetime. Really insidious.

StillWaters said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Another GE is not going to happen before 2029, but what we are witnessing is disunity and bitterness growing at a fearful rate with unknown consequences

Social media is virtually out of control with Musk pouring petrol on the flames

We can jump.up and down and shout to the heavens, but what we really need is good governance and I do not see where that is coming from

Very difficult times ahead

Social media needs to be regulated. It should be a public utility with fixed returns on capital. There should be no economic incentive to run toxic algorithms

But then how could Nick Clegg make $20m in five years?

Well, I see that there has been the usual outrage about the appalling rape and abuse of girls.

Understandably - given the horrific nature of what was done and described in the transcripts of the sentencing remarks. What was done was horrific.

But was it that much more horrific than what you can find on internet porn sites easily enough? Indeed, how many of the men were carrying out in real life what they saw on porn sites? And how many of those men expressing outrage are equally outraged about the abuse of girls routinely uploaded to pornhub etc?

Or in the fact that allegations of choking - common in porn - are an increasing factor in rape allegations - https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/choking-allegations-rape-cases-scotland-drc7p27df?

Or is the outrage only about who is doing these dreadful things? And conveniently ignoring all the other types of men who have done horrific things to women, girls, children (of both sexes) in all sorts of places and institutions for decades and decades while people turned a blind eye and promoted those in charge rather than holding anyone accountable?

Shecorns88 said:

GIN1138 said:

Of course the King won't dissolve Parliament just a few months after the election and with Labour having such a strong and stable majority.

That said, the attacks from Musk are just another element of the narrative that Labour is turning out to be a very, very unpopular government and upsetting people on all sides of the political divide.

WFA will be the next thing to come back and bite them with this freezing cold weather set to last for a good week or more...

It isn't.

It's unpopular in the minds of 35 to 40% of the population who cannot accept Labour won.

Wait 2 years and Labour will be far more popular.

Why would Labour be more popular in two years when governments only ever get more unpopular in mid-term?

Edit: I suppose they might ditch Starmar, lol!

Yes no way is this happening. Even though the Fixed Term Parliaments Act was repealed by the Johnson Government and replaced by the Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act 2022 enabling the Monarch to dissolve Parliament and call a general election again even though 5 years had not elapsed since the last one it would never be used unless the PM of the day requested a snap general election. Given Labour's majority in Parliament the Labour government is also likely to last the full 5 years however unpopular Starmer or any replacement Labour PM becomes.

The Australian replacement of Whitlam by Fraser as PM by the Governor General in 1975 and immediate snap double dissolution Federal Election was a different scenario as the elected Senate was controlled by the Coalition and blocking all legislation from the elected Labor controlled House of Representatives. Given Whitlam refused to call a double dissolution replacing him by Fraser who would call a snap Federal election was the only way to break the deadlock and get legislation through again and indeed Australians did indeed elect Fraser and his Liberal-National coalition by a landslide in the subsequent election giving them a majority in the House of Representatives as well as the Senate.

In the UK though such a scenario does not arise as we do not have an elected Senate like Australia but an unelected upper house in the form of the House of Lords which can only delay House of Commons legislation for a year not block it completely

Cyclefree said:

Well, I see that there has been the usual outrage about the appalling rape and abuse of girls.

Understandably - given the horrific nature of what was done and described in the transcripts of the sentencing remarks. What was done was horrific.

But was it that much more horrific than what you can find on internet porn sites easily enough? Indeed, how many of the men were carrying out in real life what they saw on porn sites? And how many of those men expressing outrage are equally outraged about the abuse of girls routinely uploaded to pornhub etc?

Or in the fact that allegations of choking - common in porn - are an increasing factor in rape allegations - https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/choking-allegations-rape-cases-scotland-drc7p27df?

Or is the outrage only about who is doing these dreadful things? And conveniently ignoring all the other types of men who have done horrific things to women, girls, children (of both sexes) in all sorts of places and institutions for decades and decades while people turned a blind eye and promoted those in charge rather than holding anyone accountable?

We can compare the outrage at l'affaire Pelicot with events in northern English towns.

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

spudgfsh said:

Malmesbury said:

state_go_away said:

There will be of course be no election until 2028/29 . However the mere fact this is being taken semi seriously shows how bad labour have started . A bit of class war has backfired especially regarding farmers and the banal promise of "growth" has especially backfired given the abysmal budget that everyone can see is anti-growth

It's not being taken even semi-seriously by anyone with a brain.

- Calling for another election is fine, as far as I am concerned.
- Getting the House of Commons to debate having another election via enough petition votes is fine.
- The majority of the House voting for a dissolution and another election, this evening. Fine

The last isn't going to happen. Short of Starmer announcing that Trump is the Saviour Of The World - that *might* swing enough Labour MPs against him.

even if SKS is forced to resign as PM, Labour have enough seats to switch to someone else. I can't see it happening.

I had drinks with a labour insider last night. He surprised me by saying that Starmer is already in Trouble, and that if his dire polling does not improve in 18 months labour will remove him

Could be bollocks. My friend is loyal Labour. Centrist

Labour are in trouble because the ideological project of the modern UK is in trouble. The question is becoming whether it can be reformed or whether it will end in some kind of collapse or revolution.

We don't do collapse or revolution here.

Thankfully.

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

Razedabode said:

Musk is looking deranged on X. But I think the mood on there captures *something* that has changed and won’t be going away - and I’ve no idea where it leads

What I do know is that people evidently voted for change / something different, and what it appears is happening with Labour in government is barely any different. The system we have in this country just isn’t fit for purpose.

There is a definite and dramatic vibe shift. The Temple of Woke is collapsing. In America. There are multiple signs everywhere now

What starts there will v likely come here

To paraphrase Harold MacMillan, there is certainly a Wind of Change.

Perhaps a Divine Wind of Change?

Cyclefree said:

Well, I see that there has been the usual outrage about the appalling rape and abuse of girls.

Understandably - given the horrific nature of what was done and described in the transcripts of the sentencing remarks. What was done was horrific.

But was it that much more horrific than what you can find on internet porn sites easily enough? Indeed, how many of the men were carrying out in real life what they saw on porn sites? And how many of those men expressing outrage are equally outraged about the abuse of girls routinely uploaded to pornhub etc?

Or in the fact that allegations of choking - common in porn - are an increasing factor in rape allegations - https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/choking-allegations-rape-cases-scotland-drc7p27df?

Or is the outrage only about who is doing these dreadful things? And conveniently ignoring all the other types of men who have done horrific things to women, girls, children (of both sexes) in all sorts of places and institutions for decades and decades while people turned a blind eye and promoted those in charge rather than holding anyone accountable?

It was more horrific because it was non-consensual, and because of the ages of the victims.

Otherwise, I agree with your point that pornography played a role.

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

Leon said:

spudgfsh said:

Malmesbury said:

state_go_away said:

There will be of course be no election until 2028/29 . However the mere fact this is being taken semi seriously shows how bad labour have started . A bit of class war has backfired especially regarding farmers and the banal promise of "growth" has especially backfired given the abysmal budget that everyone can see is anti-growth

It's not being taken even semi-seriously by anyone with a brain.

- Calling for another election is fine, as far as I am concerned.
- Getting the House of Commons to debate having another election via enough petition votes is fine.
- The majority of the House voting for a dissolution and another election, this evening. Fine

The last isn't going to happen. Short of Starmer announcing that Trump is the Saviour Of The World - that *might* swing enough Labour MPs against him.

even if SKS is forced to resign as PM, Labour have enough seats to switch to someone else. I can't see it happening.

I had drinks with a labour insider last night. He surprised me by saying that Starmer is already in Trouble, and that if his dire polling does not improve in 18 months labour will remove him

Could be bollocks. My friend is loyal Labour. Centrist

Labour are in trouble because the ideological project of the modern UK is in trouble. The question is becoming whether it can be reformed or whether it will end in some kind of collapse or revolution.

You say that "Labour are in trouble" in relation to "will it end in some kind of collapse or revolution". Is the solution for Chaz to overthrow Labour so that we can put the Tories in?

If only we had the Tories in government, the "modern UK" would not be "in trouble". It was a paradise until July, and Labour broke it.

Boooooo I say, Booooooo. The only way to save our democracy, our modern UK is to overthrow democracy. People Voted the Wrong Way and we must Vote Again. Just as we didn't after Brexit where the exact same people suggested it would be outrageous to overthrow democracy and vote again.

No, as we've seen over the last 14 years, the Tories are part of the problem and are just as much in thrawl to the same ideology. Putting the Tories back in charge wouldn't help at all.

It's easier to critique capitalism than design a realistic alternative tbf.

Is this a feature of capitalism?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/10/birmingham-city-council-agrees-deal-over-equal-pay-claims

Birmingham city council has reached an agreement to settle historical equal pay claims that left the authority with liabilities estimated at £760m and pushed it into effective bankruptcy.

I thought you were talking about the ideology on which the UK is based. There are several
but I'd say it's capitalism if you have to pick just one.

What are you saying it is? What ideology has
a bigger impact on life in Britain than capitalism?

I'm not sure what the best name for it is but maybe legalism. The idea that the path towards progress comes from encoding ever more 'rights'.

A legacy of the great civil rights battles of the 60s and 70s. I don't think there's majority support for reversing all or any of that.

Roger said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Roger said:

david_herdson said:

Roger said:

Leon said:

spudgfsh said:

Malmesbury said:

state_go_away said:

There will be of course be no election until 2028/29 . However the mere fact this is being taken semi seriously shows how bad labour have started . A bit of class war has backfired especially regarding farmers and the banal promise of "growth" has especially backfired given the abysmal budget that everyone can see is anti-growth

It's not being taken even semi-seriously by anyone with a brain.

- Calling for another election is fine, as far as I am concerned.
- Getting the House of Commons to debate having another election via enough petition votes is fine.
- The majority of the House voting for a dissolution and another election, this evening. Fine

The last isn't going to happen. Short of Starmer announcing that Trump is the Saviour Of The World - that *might* swing enough Labour MPs against him.

even if SKS is forced to resign as PM, Labour have enough seats to switch to someone else. I can't see it happening.

I had drinks with a labour insider last night. He surprised me by saying that Starmer is already in Trouble, and that if his dire polling does not improve in 18 months labour will remove him

Could be bollocks. My friend is loyal Labour. Centrist

Why come on here with a completely invented story knowing that no one on here believes a word you say?

FWIW, I believe Leon. I don't believe his friend's prediction because - as I noted below - Labour doesn't remove its leaders (not least because it doesn't really have the mechanism to do so).

Think about it. A Labour INSIDER has parroted in the exact same terms what Leon has been repeating ad nauseam since Labour came to power.

The only added extra is that its now been confirmed by a Labour Insider!Like he would even know a LABOUR INSIDER

Hmm. Do I think someone who lives and works in the London media industry knows a Labour member? I guess it's possible.

Roger must think that here in NW1 - or in the Groucho Club - I’ve managed to surround myself with a large group of Farageist friends. That would be quite an achievement, a bit like Roger spending every night in a Wetherspoons

I spent a large part of an evening in Grouchos with an actual Labour shadow cabinet minister when there were some seriously interesting things going on in the Labour Party and there's no way he would have given me such a dreary bit of non gossip and if he had I would have found it too fatuous to report on here

That’s a shame, because it would have enlivened the endless pointless stream of low-watt, low-IQ verbal
effluent that otherwise constitutes your PB commentary. Like spotting an unusually large dead dog in an otherwise toxic canal

williamglenn said:

Rory Stewart calls Elon Musk a “genuine fascist”.

https://x.com/ben_kew/status/1875193771572506860

Of course some Trump supporters did try and storm the Capitol in Jan 2021 to try and stop then President elect Biden and the Democrats in Congress taking office and they were arguably Fascists. Not sure if Musk supported them then though

biggles said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend

If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!

Well, yes.

I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.

Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.

How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?

As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.

20? Put a jumper on man!

Mrs Biggles would like you. I go for 17 and she raises it to 20. It oscillates through the day.

Mind you we do also have a coal fire as an affectation.

17? Wuss!

Mine's on 15.

(Admittedly that's because I'm in my office which is heated by a less than adequate electric radiator battling valiantly but unsuccessfully against the cold outside.)

ydoethur said:

biggles said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend

If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!

Well, yes.

I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.

Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.

How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?

As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.

20? Put a jumper on man!

Mrs Biggles would like you. I go for 17 and she raises it to 20. It oscillates through the day.

Mind you we do also have a coal fire as an affectation.

17? Wuss!

Mine's on 15.

(Admittedly that's because I'm in my office which is heated by a less than adequate electric radiator battling valiantly but unsuccessfully against the cold outside.)

Mine’s on 22, only a couple of degrees below the outside ambient at the moment. Any lower and it starts to get expensive.

As Cookie got away with a picture from Pen-y-Ghent yesterday (no objections to that) and it is still vaguely holiday season I'm going to post two from my walk in the sun today (joined together to skirt the rules).

In this case, though, Leon style, there is a (probably too hard) quiz question to go with them.

How do they relate to British politics?

As a clue, they were taken in the southern part of Rotherham district, and the first image is rock (and moss), not pavement.

MarqueeMark said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

state_go_away said:

The conservatives are still in deep political trouble and need to stop the Reform bandwagon. I voted Reform last election so not that fussed if they do not but one way to stop it might be to persuade Sunak to step down as an MP - If the tories are going to win a by -election currently Richmond is about the best candidate .This may steady leakage to Reform

Reform are only a superficial threat to the Tories. It's Labour for whom they are existential because they are claiming the mantle of defending the interests of the British working class against those who, in the name of ideology, think their interests should take second place.

My worry is that Reform and the Tories take each other out for a second time, and we get another term of these Britain hating/destroying See You Next Tuesdays for another 5 years.

They need to deal.

Or...the Conservatives need to make the case that voting Reform brings about the 180 degree opposite of what those voting Reform want.

Tricky though "stop being self-indulgent wankers!" might be to tell Reform voters, it is most apt...

The biggest issue is that Reform couldn't fart in a toilet- they are a professional NOTA /protest party.

If you wanted someone Reformy who would actually be half effective, and get stuff done, you'd go for Jenrick.

MarqueeMark said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

state_go_away said:

The conservatives are still in deep political trouble and need to stop the Reform bandwagon. I voted Reform last election so not that fussed if they do not but one way to stop it might be to persuade Sunak to step down as an MP - If the tories are going to win a by -election currently Richmond is about the best candidate .This may steady leakage to Reform

Reform are only a superficial threat to the Tories. It's Labour for whom they are existential because they are claiming the mantle of defending the interests of the British working class against those who, in the name of ideology, think their interests should take second place.

My worry is that Reform and the Tories take each other out for a second time, and we get another term of these Britain hating/destroying See You Next Tuesdays for another 5 years.

They need to deal.

Or...the Conservatives need to make the case that voting Reform brings about the 180 degree opposite of what those voting Reform want.

Tricky though "stop being self-indulgent wankers!" might be to tell Reform voters, it is most apt...

The Tory problem is who is going to trust them ? They.ve had too many say one thing pre election and then do the opposite for anyone to take them at face value.

Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.

Shecorns88 said:

GIN1138 said:

Of course the King won't dissolve Parliament just a few months after the election and with Labour having such a strong and stable majority.

That said, the attacks from Musk are just another element of the narrative that Labour is turning out to be a very, very unpopular government and upsetting people on all sides of the political divide.

WFA will be the next thing to come back and bite them with this freezing cold weather set to last for a good week or more...

It isn't.

It's unpopular in the minds of 35 to 40% of the population who cannot accept Labour won.

Wait 2 years and Labour will be far more popular.

As for Musk.

Be it the CIA, the FBI, some disaffected MAGA type, a Muslim Cell, Mossad or too much Charlie I don't see him around long

5/6 the Charlie
5/4 Lone gunman
3/1 Trump supporter
6/1 CIA
8/1 Mossad

There's a damn sight more than 35% to 40% saying "I didn't bloody well vote for them...!"

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

state_go_away said:

I think the Musk thing is well overblown. He is known for saying what he wants over many years . Most people note it and move on . It may well just be a reaction to a lot of labour staff overtly supporting the democrats in the US election. Farage is astute enough to not get too drawn in and will concentrate more on more mainstream issues turning out to be crap -uncontrolled immigration IS mainstream btw

It's the fact Musk is a turncoat and deserted the Democrats.

For a comparator, imagine if it had been - instead - Zuckerberg who quit the Democrats and went full MAGA.

We'd be seeing something quite similar, with lots of Facebook and Meta sledging, and alternatives to WhatsApp being suggested.

I think that Zuck is due to go to the dark side sooner rather than later.

That seems quite likely to me. Especially if there's money in it.

It's a very odd header.

Musk seems a bit mad at the moment. I suspect he'll calm down and get on with the good stuff.

KC3 on the other hand is doing a wonderfully level-headed acceptance of his riches.

Whilst the turbulent world of the daft churns, I'm sure most of us can get on with life.

Who would have thought 3 years ago MVG would start at over 2/1 for a world darts final! Apparently Apple AI has already declared Littler the winner . Hope it wont be held against me when AI takes over the world but I think MVG is a good bet at over 2/1 - He has walked the walk many times , it may be a bit overwhelming for Littler

state_go_away said:

Who would have thought 3 years ago MVG would start at over 2/1 for a world darts final! Apparently Apple AI has already declared Littler the winner . Hope it wont be held against me when AI takes over the world but I think MVG is a good bet at over 2/1 - He has walked the walk many times , it may be a bit overwhelming for Littler

I'm on Luke from the start but wish I'd backed MVG when his half of the draw opened up.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

Rory Stewart calls Elon Musk a “genuine fascist”.

https://x.com/ben_kew/status/1875193771572506860

Ridiculous comment.

The man's a complete fake.

He's a bit of a twat.

He lost all credibility with his 'absolutely guaranteed' stick over Kamala Harris winning the US election, and then tried to wiggle out of it after with a vomit-inducing spin line of 'I'd rather be wrong thinking the best of people than right thinking the worst'.

It's no wonder he never amounted to much in the parliamentary party.

I was fairly non-keen when I first saw a Ted talk someone was raving about by him posted here. Nothing personal about him, just not keen as a politician. Then I wasn't keen on his messiah walking in the London Mayoral race. Then there's his embrace of Bad Al. We are just not sympatico.

Secretly, he's in awe of Bad Al and craves his approval.

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend

If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!

Well, yes.

I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.

Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.

How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?

As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.

I live in a rented flat with a (23 year old) combi boiler. It has one control on it, numbered from 0 to 10, and one of those old manual timers with the circle of switches. The radiators have controls on them which are technically thermostats. I suppose. But it's not like real thermostatic control of the air temperature.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

state_go_away said:

I think the Musk thing is well overblown. He is known for saying what he wants over many years . Most people note it and move on . It may well just be a reaction to a lot of labour staff overtly supporting the democrats in the US election. Farage is astute enough to not get too drawn in and will concentrate more on more mainstream issues turning out to be crap -uncontrolled immigration IS mainstream btw

It's the fact Musk is a turncoat and deserted the Democrats.

For a comparator, imagine if it had been - instead - Zuckerberg who quit the Democrats and went full MAGA.

We'd be seeing something quite similar, with lots of Facebook and Meta sledging, and alternatives to WhatsApp being suggested.

I think that Zuck is due to go to the dark side sooner rather than later.

Get the popcorn ready.

Casino_Royale said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

Rory Stewart calls Elon Musk a “genuine fascist”.

https://x.com/ben_kew/status/1875193771572506860

Ridiculous comment.

The man's a complete fake.

He's a bit of a twat.

He lost all credibility with his 'absolutely guaranteed' stick over Kamala Harris winning the US election, and then tried to wiggle out of it after with a vomit-inducing spin line of 'I'd rather be wrong thinking the best of people than right thinking the worst'.

It's no wonder he never amounted to much in the parliamentary party.

Just to be clear - I meant Musk was not genuine fascist as he's a complete fake.

It may be true of Rory Stewart as well.

...

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Shecorns88 said:

WFA

Whilst the Mail, Express and Telegraph desperately await a victim to Martyr on the real world

Tourism bosses in Devon and Cornwall, Canary Islands, Malta and The Costas are raging at massive drop off in Bookings for January and February

Millions of oldies can't have their State sponsored WFW Winter Fuel Week away.

There are going to be many pensioners freezing this weekend with a report on Sky that some are choosing between heating and eating and the principle reason the 20 labour councillors defected this week was the change in WFA

And in view of the appalling state of the economy it is not a surprise there is a drop in tourism

Yes the golden legacy has been squandered in six months.

I am surprised at the enthusiasm on here for the overthrow of the recently elected Government. If Chas won't play ball with Musk, how many assassinations does he need for a VONC to pass?

And you lot said I was an enemy of democracy for asking for a second EU referendum.

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.

It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs

Very very dark, but not with humour

The Republicans had to invent their own US child abuse crisis - supposedly underneath pizza parlours.

Not us though...

carnforth said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend

If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!

Well, yes.

I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.

Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.

How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?

As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.

I live in a rented flat with a (23 year old) combi boiler. It has one control on it, numbered from 0 to 10, and one of those old manual timers with the circle of switches. The radiators have controls on them which are technically thermostats. I suppose. But it's not like real thermostatic control of the air temperature.

You need to get a new boiler.

That goes to 11.

MarqueeMark said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.

It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs

Very very dark, but not with humour

The Republicans had to invent their own US child abuse crisis - supposedly underneath pizza parlours.

Not us though...

The Labour child abuse scandal has a nice ring to it.

Omnium said:

Casino_Royale said:

Shecorns88 said:

GIN1138 said:

Of course the King won't dissolve Parliament just a few months after the election and with Labour having such a strong and stable majority.

That said, the attacks from Musk are just another element of the narrative that Labour is turning out to be a very, very unpopular government and upsetting people on all sides of the political divide.

WFA will be the next thing to come back and bite them with this freezing cold weather set to last for a good week or more...

It isn't.

It's unpopular in the minds of 35 to 40% of the population who cannot accept Labour won.

Wait 2 years and Labour will be far more popular.

This post is a real keeper.

Let's see how popular Labour are on 3rd January 2027, folks.

Ok, what's special about 3rd Jan '27? (A Sunday)

Two years from now.

After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.

MaxPB said:

After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.

I'm sure you must be aware of the BBC series?

Shecorns88 said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Shecorns88 said:

WFA

Whilst the Mail, Express and Telegraph desperately await a victim to Martyr on the real world

Tourism bosses in Devon and Cornwall, Canary Islands, Malta and The Costas are raging at massive drop off in Bookings for January and February

Millions of oldies can't have their State sponsored WFW Winter Fuel Week away.

There are going to be many pensioners freezing this weekend with a report on Sky that some are choosing between heating and eating and the principle reason the 20 labour councillors defected this week was the change in WFA

And in view of the appalling state of the economy it is not a surprise there is a drop in tourism

Yes the golden legacy has been squandered in six months.

I am surprised at the enthusiasm on here for the overthrow of the recently elected Government. If Chas won't play ball with Musk, how many assassinations does he need for a VONC to pass?

And you lot said I was an enemy of democracy for asking for a second EU referendum.

The golden legacy.

PMSL

You don't do irony do you?

carnforth said:

Mexicanpete said:

MarqueeMark said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.

It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs

Very very dark, but not with humour

The Republicans had to invent their own US child abuse crisis - supposedly underneath pizza parlours.

Not us though...

The Labour child abuse scandal has a nice ring to it.

"Labour's Rape Gangs", please. (For avoidance of doubt, I'm joking.)

I don't think this renewed interest in the scandal will be going anywhere sadly. Starmer can't really convene a public enquiry he'd be an important witness at, and the Labour party aren't going to force him to.

I don't know, if Musk can get it on the front pages and publicise the details there will be enough of a public outcry that they will be forced to call one and it will be worse because they'll have been dragged into it kicking and screaming.

Omnium said:

MaxPB said:

After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.

I'm sure you must be aware of the BBC series?

Yeah I couldn't find it easily though. The film was on Netflix.

MaxPB said:

After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.

Smiley's People was filmed

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083480/

Complete with Capt. Picard as Karla.

In the remake that you watched the mis-casting of Mark Strong as Jim Prideaux annoyed. Ian Bannen had the right kind of savagery.

RobD said:

Omnium said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Shecorns88 said:

WFA

Whilst the Mail, Express and Telegraph desperately await a victim to Martyr on the real world

Tourism bosses in Devon and Cornwall, Canary Islands, Malta and The Costas are raging at massive drop off in Bookings for January and February

Millions of oldies can't have their State sponsored WFW Winter Fuel Week away.

There are going to be many pensioners freezing this weekend with a report on Sky that some are choosing between heating and eating and the principle reason the 20 labour councillors defected this week was the change in WFA

And in view of the appalling state of the economy it is not a surprise there is a drop in tourism

Yes the golden legacy has been squandered in six months.

I am surprised at the enthusiasm on here for the overthrow of the recently elected Government. If Chas won't play ball with Musk, how many assassinations does he need for a VONC to pass?

And you lot said I was an enemy of democracy for asking for a second EU referendum.

Is anyone really advocating such things here?

No, they aren't.

Check out some of yesterday's posts. No names but someone beginning with M.

Mexicanpete said:

Omnium said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Shecorns88 said:

WFA

Whilst the Mail, Express and Telegraph desperately await a victim to Martyr on the real world

Tourism bosses in Devon and Cornwall, Canary Islands, Malta and The Costas are raging at massive drop off in Bookings for January and February

Millions of oldies can't have their State sponsored WFW Winter Fuel Week away.

There are going to be many pensioners freezing this weekend with a report on Sky that some are choosing between heating and eating and the principle reason the 20 labour councillors defected this week was the change in WFA

And in view of the appalling state of the economy it is not a surprise there is a drop in tourism

Yes the golden legacy has been squandered in six months.

I am surprised at the enthusiasm on here for the overthrow of the recently elected Government. If Chas won't play ball with Musk, how many assassinations does he need for a VONC to pass?

And you lot said I was an enemy of democracy for asking for a second EU referendum.

Is anyone really advocating such things here?

Musk has asked for Chas to dissolve Parliament and for Phillips to be imprisoned, oh and Tommy Ten Names to be released. Hands up all those in favour.

Yes, but he's Musk. Have any PBers suggested such a thing? ("as you lot")

carnforth said:

Mexicanpete said:

MarqueeMark said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.

It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs

Very very dark, but not with humour

The Republicans had to invent their own US child abuse crisis - supposedly underneath pizza parlours.

Not us though...

The Labour child abuse scandal has a nice ring to it.

"Labour's Rape Gangs", please. (For avoidance of doubt, I'm joking.)

I don't think this renewed interest in the scandal will be going anywhere sadly. Starmer can't really convene a public enquiry he'd be an important witness at, and the Labour party aren't going to force him to.

You missed out "child".

Alphabet_Soup said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Shecorns88 said:

WFA

Whilst the Mail, Express and Telegraph desperately await a victim to Martyr on the real world

Tourism bosses in Devon and Cornwall, Canary Islands, Malta and The Costas are raging at massive drop off in Bookings for January and February

Millions of oldies can't have their State sponsored WFW Winter Fuel Week away.

There are going to be many pensioners freezing this weekend with a report on Sky that some are choosing between heating and eating and the principle reason the 20 labour councillors defected this week was the change in WFA

And in view of the appalling state of the economy it is not a surprise there is a drop in tourism

Regarding the Canaries and the Costas, if the Spanish insist on treating British tourists like crap at passport control (as has been alleged) no surprise if they go somewhere else next time.

The argument is nonsense anyway as the WFA is £200 per household or £300 for the over 80s, and frankly it is not going to prevent those who want to go abroad doing so, but also why go somewhere the locals are hostile to you ?

Omnium said:

MaxPB said:

After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.

I'm sure you must be aware of the BBC series?

Recently released by BBC DVD on Blu Ray too.

I watched the BBC series on a flight to Cape Verde. It’s sublime.