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A blast from the past – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,392
    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Edward Lucas of FT went canvassing for Harris in PA and struggled to find any Harris voters.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Edward Lucas of FT went canvassing for Harris in PA and struggled to find any Harris voters.
    He can’t have looked very hard
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    John Profumo
    Airey Neave
    Dick Taverne
    You would say that wouldn't you?

    There are some really left field ideas coming in thick and fast.

    In some respects it's easier to suggest who definitely shouldn't be on the list. I still like the list @ydoethur compiled earlier. Who doesn't like a bit of Buttskellism?
    Without Profumo perhaps the Conservatives win in 1964.

    Without Neave perhaps Heath holds off Thatcher in 1975.

    Without Taverne perhaps there is no SDP.

    The actions of 'little people' can affect the world of politics.

    A more recent example would be those final two Labour MPs who allowed Corbyn to become a Labour leader candidate.
    I think you are giving too much credibility to butterfly effects. In that case Eric Joyce nutting Stuart Andrew in a Parliamentary bar makes him more relevant than Farage.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    edited October 21

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    John Profumo
    Airey Neave
    Dick Taverne
    You would say that wouldn't you?

    There are some really left field ideas coming in thick and fast.

    In some respects it's easier to suggest who definitely shouldn't be on the list. I still like the list @ydoethur compiled earlier. Who doesn't like a bit of Buttskellism?
    Without Profumo perhaps the Conservatives win in 1964.

    Without Neave perhaps Heath holds off Thatcher in 1975.

    Without Taverne perhaps there is no SDP.

    The actions of 'little people' can affect the world of politics.

    A more recent example would be those final two Labour MPs who allowed Corbyn to become a Labour leader candidate.
    Are there two sorts of influential non-PMs, possibly at cross-purposes?

    Some are people who do a lot in government (or perhaps opposition) without being in the right place at the right time get the top job. Healy or Butler or Heseltine, say. Kinnock or Ashdown, perhaps.

    Others are disruptors. They mostly threw stones, but one or more of those stones hit. Suspect that's where you put Benn, Farage, Powell.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    The Serious Fraud Office is investigating the construction of a hotel and conference centre owned by one of the UK’s biggest trade unions, the BBC can reveal.

    Unite the Union spent a total of £112m of its members’ money on the project in Birmingham.

    The building has since been valued at just £29m, suggesting £83m has been wasted.

    A KC-led inquiry commissioned by Unite’s general secretary Sharon Graham also identified a missing £14m which has been described as a “mystery” and does not feature in the project’s final accounts.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5z54236wgo
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Except Vance himself started that "rumour".
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    Cicero said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Except Vance himself started that "rumour".
    After years of condemning former President Donald Trump for spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories, Democrats are now poking fun at his running mate using a false, vulgar rumor.

    The rumor, first posted on X last month, involves a fake passage about a sex act and a couch supposedly in Sen. JD Vance's 2016 book, "Hillbilly Elegy."

    The lie spread like wildfire, spawning jokes and memes even as the original joke's author clarified that it wasn't real and later made his account private. Several news outlets published fact-checks of the claim.

    The fervor reached a peak in Philadelphia, the day Vice President Kamala Harris named Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her running mate. Walz told an arena filled with thousands of excited supporters: “I got to tell you, I can’t wait to debate the guy [Vance]. That is, if he’s willing to get off the couch and show up.”


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-false-jd-vance-couch-trump-misinformation-rcna166155

    For the past two weeks, Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has been mocked as someone who has sex with couches — a strange situation even in the no-holds-barred world of presidential politics.

    Now the person who created the bizarre meme is coming clean to Business Insider about how he came up with the weird accusation.

    Back on July 15, after Vance was announced as Donald Trump’s running mate, a social media user whose handle on X, formerly Twitter, was @rickrudescalves made a bogus post stating that “Hillbilly Elegy,” Vance’s bestselling book, mentioned him having sex with a “latex glove shoved between two couch cushions.”

    The claim was completely made up by “Rick,” which is how Business Insider referred to the jokester to preserve his anonymity.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jd-vance-couch-sex-meme-creator_n_66a94103e4b0a3cd43f77791
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    John Profumo
    Airey Neave
    Dick Taverne
    You would say that wouldn't you?

    There are some really left field ideas coming in thick and fast.

    In some respects it's easier to suggest who definitely shouldn't be on the list. I still like the list @ydoethur compiled earlier. Who doesn't like a bit of Buttskellism?
    Without Profumo perhaps the Conservatives win in 1964.

    Without Neave perhaps Heath holds off Thatcher in 1975.

    Without Taverne perhaps there is no SDP.

    The actions of 'little people' can affect the world of politics.

    A more recent example would be those final two Labour MPs who allowed Corbyn to become a Labour leader candidate.
    You could also argue that it was the assassination of Airey Neave that saved the Liberal Democrats.
    I think you mean Ian Gow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,392
    We like to think that fascism can’t happen in America. But it’s happening right now. A president who tried to impose elements of fascism in his first term—and who then deployed mob violence in an attempt to stay in power—is seeking a mandate to go much further. And half of the electorate is on the brink of giving him that mandate.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/lets-be-honest-trumps-running-as
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879

    Cicero said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Except Vance himself started that "rumour".
    After years of condemning former President Donald Trump for spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories, Democrats are now poking fun at his running mate using a false, vulgar rumor.

    The rumor, first posted on X last month, involves a fake passage about a sex act and a couch supposedly in Sen. JD Vance's 2016 book, "Hillbilly Elegy."

    The lie spread like wildfire, spawning jokes and memes even as the original joke's author clarified that it wasn't real and later made his account private. Several news outlets published fact-checks of the claim.

    The fervor reached a peak in Philadelphia, the day Vice President Kamala Harris named Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her running mate. Walz told an arena filled with thousands of excited supporters: “I got to tell you, I can’t wait to debate the guy [Vance]. That is, if he’s willing to get off the couch and show up.”


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-false-jd-vance-couch-trump-misinformation-rcna166155

    For the past two weeks, Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has been mocked as someone who has sex with couches — a strange situation even in the no-holds-barred world of presidential politics.

    Now the person who created the bizarre meme is coming clean to Business Insider about how he came up with the weird accusation.

    Back on July 15, after Vance was announced as Donald Trump’s running mate, a social media user whose handle on X, formerly Twitter, was @rickrudescalves made a bogus post stating that “Hillbilly Elegy,” Vance’s bestselling book, mentioned him having sex with a “latex glove shoved between two couch cushions.”

    The claim was completely made up by “Rick,” which is how Business Insider referred to the jokester to preserve his anonymity.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jd-vance-couch-sex-meme-creator_n_66a94103e4b0a3cd43f77791
    TBF, "I got to tell you, I can’t wait to debate the guy [Vance]. That is, if he’s willing to get off the couch and show up" is not actually accusing him of anything, even if it is a bit naff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879
    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Edward Lucas of FT went canvassing for Harris in PA and struggled to find any Harris voters.
    He can’t have looked very hard
    Oh, one can convince oneself of anything. If you go to some rural Arizona counties, I'm sure you'll find places that are 90% Trump. And if you are in the immediate environs of Arizona State University in Phoenix, you will probably find an equal abundance of Harris voters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    John Profumo
    Airey Neave
    Dick Taverne
    You would say that wouldn't you?

    There are some really left field ideas coming in thick and fast.

    In some respects it's easier to suggest who definitely shouldn't be on the list. I still like the list @ydoethur compiled earlier. Who doesn't like a bit of Buttskellism?
    Without Profumo perhaps the Conservatives win in 1964.

    Without Neave perhaps Heath holds off Thatcher in 1975.

    Without Taverne perhaps there is no SDP.

    The actions of 'little people' can affect the world of politics.

    A more recent example would be those final two Labour MPs who allowed Corbyn to become a Labour leader candidate.
    You could also argue that it was the assassination of Airey Neave that saved the Liberal Democrats.
    I think you mean Ian Gow.
    You are correct, and I am wrong.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    rcs1000 said:

    Cicero said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Except Vance himself started that "rumour".
    After years of condemning former President Donald Trump for spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories, Democrats are now poking fun at his running mate using a false, vulgar rumor.

    The rumor, first posted on X last month, involves a fake passage about a sex act and a couch supposedly in Sen. JD Vance's 2016 book, "Hillbilly Elegy."

    The lie spread like wildfire, spawning jokes and memes even as the original joke's author clarified that it wasn't real and later made his account private. Several news outlets published fact-checks of the claim.

    The fervor reached a peak in Philadelphia, the day Vice President Kamala Harris named Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her running mate. Walz told an arena filled with thousands of excited supporters: “I got to tell you, I can’t wait to debate the guy [Vance]. That is, if he’s willing to get off the couch and show up.”


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/democrats-false-jd-vance-couch-trump-misinformation-rcna166155

    For the past two weeks, Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has been mocked as someone who has sex with couches — a strange situation even in the no-holds-barred world of presidential politics.

    Now the person who created the bizarre meme is coming clean to Business Insider about how he came up with the weird accusation.

    Back on July 15, after Vance was announced as Donald Trump’s running mate, a social media user whose handle on X, formerly Twitter, was @rickrudescalves made a bogus post stating that “Hillbilly Elegy,” Vance’s bestselling book, mentioned him having sex with a “latex glove shoved between two couch cushions.”

    The claim was completely made up by “Rick,” which is how Business Insider referred to the jokester to preserve his anonymity.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jd-vance-couch-sex-meme-creator_n_66a94103e4b0a3cd43f77791
    TBF, "I got to tell you, I can’t wait to debate the guy [Vance]. That is, if he’s willing to get off the couch and show up" is not actually accusing him of anything, even if it is a bit naff.
    You don't need to accuse when you can insinuate.

    And it highlighted a problem with the Dem campaign that they preferred to attack with bigoted insinuations than to stick to the issues (where Vance was more vulnerable).
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    We like to think that fascism can’t happen in America. But it’s happening right now. A president who tried to impose elements of fascism in his first term—and who then deployed mob violence in an attempt to stay in power—is seeking a mandate to go much further. And half of the electorate is on the brink of giving him that mandate.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/lets-be-honest-trumps-running-as

    When you have the likes of Milley, Mattis, and Esper essentially saying Trump is a fascist and a threat to the US — and none of them are remotely bleeding-heart liberals — people ought to take them seriously. That people can still excuse Trump's obvious threats simply shows how his outrageous behaviour has been normalised over the last 9 years or so. Something has gone profoundly wrong with American politics. I've got no time for people who make any excuses for Trump.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    One for @JosiasJessop

    A row of self-driving waymos queuing to pick up concertgoers in SF last night


  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Andy_JS said:

    What is it with America and conspiracy theories?
    I’m reminded of the Heathrow ‘drones’ incident.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Unsurprisingly the conversation of reparations has been pushed up the agenda again. If Labour decides to pay up, can Black and Asian people opt out of the additional tax as historic victims of slavery?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    Regarding the inclusion of Benn: as David Edgerton points out, the 80's was basically an argument between Thatcher (and hence Joseph) and Benn. It should also be pointed out that his work on democracy inspired Brexiteers (I think Gove explicitly mentioned this?). I think the theoreticians are, for good or ill, the more interesting, so I'd also include Daniel Hannan.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    edited October 21
    tlg86 said:

    Having looked at bodycam footage of the shooting, I can see why the jury acquitted:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1848393888853065808

    The context of armed police being deployed because the vehicle was involved in an armed incident previously is important. He wasn't armed, but the police weren't to know this. If he's prepared to use his car as a weapon, I think it's a reasonable response.

    Also he was planning a hit....

    I am also interested whose car it was. It wasn't his and that is a £100k car, totally normal to lend that sort of car out to a random....and we aren't allowed to know the person who is on trial for carrying out the hit he was involved in the planning of.

    I think there are some missing piece of puzzle we aren't been told. Whist expected to believe he was just a humble wannabe architect, who was in the wrong place wrong time.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,706

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    John Profumo
    Airey Neave
    Dick Taverne
    David Mellor for his part in the doom-spiral of the Major government. And the Vulcan guy. Redwood.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly the conversation of reparations has been pushed up the agenda again. If Labour decides to pay up, can Black and Asian people opt out of the additional tax as historic victims of slavery?

    Even Starmer isn't tinned ear enough to cave in to those demands.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,584

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    That's true here too. In the PB village Sunak would have won a landslide.
    On what grounds? I can think of only about 5 who definitely voted for Sunak on here, me, BigG, TSE and JohnO and Casino
    Oh come, come. @MarqueeMark putting a cross besides the yellow peril. I think not!

    Onto the other question of the night. What about Hume and Trimble as a double header?

    What a great debate this evening. It is of course only enabled because it is bedtime in Japan.
    Pete, you assume anyone who doesn't share your consistent loathing of the Tories must be a Tory!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Nigelb said:

    So they're going to elect a president they hate.

    Net Favorable Polling:

    Harris: +5%
    Walz: +4%

    Vance: -15%
    Trump: -18%

    AP / Oct 18, 2024

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1848373070378999877

    It would refute a long standing PB axiom.


    “only 38% of registered voters think the national economy is doing well, while 62% say it is in poor condition.”

    https://politicalwire.com/2024/10/21/most-voters-say-economy-is-poor/

    How does any incumbent survive, when the voters think this of the economy?

    Isn’t the key axiom: it’s the economy, stupid?

    In the case of Trump edging home thanks to rust belt, the economy, voters feeling poorer than time of the last election, AND illegal immigration. How everyone laughed when Trump banged on about cats and dogs being eaten - but the cats and dogs became but a constant metaphor in minds of voters everywhere, of everything they don’t like to see in their local communities when they look outside their window.

    A Trump win should not come as a surprise to any of us.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    Hmmm: you can make a case for Cash (early proponent of Brexit), and Salmond (the rise of the SNP in Scotland.)

    Owen is a bit... meh... because he's like Jenkins only with the number of achievements before the SDP.

    And Livingstone was a nonentity as an MP.

    While Barbara Castle, other than being (the first?) women cabinet minister, what's the case for her being particularly influential?
    I thought the Duchess of Atholl came before her as a minister, but even she was perhaps first equal (would need to check timings).

    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-information-office/m04c.pdf

    Mrs Castle - In Place of Strife and Equal Pay Act.

    Drunk Driving Laws. National Speed Limit. Seatbelts fitted to all new cars. All were prescient.

    All 1966-1967.

    Road deaths peaked at 8,000 in 1966.
    By 1980 they were down to 6,000, and 5,000 by 1990.

    Just between 1966 and 1980 that's about 14,000 people who weren't dead. That uses the assumption in would have stuck 8,000 a year; in fact the trend was sharply up at that stage.


    Interesting! Definitely an arguable case there.

    The WW2 figure must be blackout and young services drivers (not just US lorries either), more than compensating for the reduction in driving.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    tlg86 said:

    Having looked at bodycam footage of the shooting, I can see why the jury acquitted:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1848393888853065808

    The context of armed police being deployed because the vehicle was involved in an armed incident previously is important. He wasn't armed, but the police weren't to know this. If he's prepared to use his car as a weapon, I think it's a reasonable response.

    Also he was planning a hit....

    I am also interested whose car it was. It wasn't his and that is a £100k car, totally normal to lend that sort of car out to a random....and we aren't allowed to know the person who is on trial for carrying out the hit he was involved in the planning of.

    I think there are some missing piece of puzzle we aren't been told. Whist expected to believe he was just a humble wannabe architect, who was in the wrong place wrong time.
    I don’t think we are expected to believe the last bit. He was clearly involved in some pretty bad stuff, that’s obvious. He also tried to ram his borrowed car through a police roadblock, endangering officers. That, and the links to the gun offences (the hit) led to his death. He was a stupid idiotic criminal.
    There is presumably other cases/trials extant which is why we don’t have the full facts. We should be wary of falling into the Tommy Robinson trap.
  • viewcode said:

    Regarding the inclusion of Benn: as David Edgerton points out, the 80's was basically an argument between Thatcher (and hence Joseph) and Benn. It should also be pointed out that his work on democracy inspired Brexiteers (I think Gove explicitly mentioned this?). I think the theoreticians are, for good or ill, the more interesting, so I'd also include Daniel Hannan.

    Hard not to laugh then that Benn lost his seat in Thatcher’s 83 landslide.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    Nigelb said:

    So they're going to elect a president they hate.

    Net Favorable Polling:

    Harris: +5%
    Walz: +4%

    Vance: -15%
    Trump: -18%

    AP / Oct 18, 2024

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1848373070378999877

    It would refute a long standing PB axiom.


    “only 38% of registered voters think the national economy is doing well, while 62% say it is in poor condition.”

    https://politicalwire.com/2024/10/21/most-voters-say-economy-is-poor/

    How does any incumbent survive, when the voters think this of the economy?

    Isn’t the key axiom: it’s the economy, stupid?

    In the case of Trump edging home thanks to rust belt, the economy, voters feeling poorer than time of the last election, AND illegal immigration. How everyone laughed when Trump banged on about cats and dogs being eaten - but the cats and dogs became but a constant metaphor in minds of voters everywhere, of everything they don’t like to see in their local communities when they look outside their window.

    A Trump win should not come as a surprise to any of us.
    No it shouldn't but then again if Haley was GOP nominee she would probably be heading for a landslide, it is Trump making this election still too close to call.

    Plus in actual reality inflation is falling and the US economy is growing not in recession, even if voters still are feeling the effects of the lockdown
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    edited October 21

    tlg86 said:

    Having looked at bodycam footage of the shooting, I can see why the jury acquitted:

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1848393888853065808

    The context of armed police being deployed because the vehicle was involved in an armed incident previously is important. He wasn't armed, but the police weren't to know this. If he's prepared to use his car as a weapon, I think it's a reasonable response.

    Also he was planning a hit....

    I am also interested whose car it was. It wasn't his and that is a £100k car, totally normal to lend that sort of car out to a random....and we aren't allowed to know the person who is on trial for carrying out the hit he was involved in the planning of.

    I think there are some missing piece of puzzle we aren't been told. Whist expected to believe he was just a humble wannabe architect, who was in the wrong place wrong time.
    I don’t think we are expected to believe the last bit. He was clearly involved in some pretty bad stuff, that’s obvious. He also tried to ram his borrowed car through a police roadblock, endangering officers. That, and the links to the gun offences (the hit) led to his death. He was a stupid idiotic criminal.
    There is presumably other cases/trials extant which is why we don’t have the full facts. We should be wary of falling into the Tommy Robinson trap.
    Not sure what you mean by the Tommy Robinson trap. I am not suggesting there is a cover up or some giant conspiracy or whatever Robinson grift is these days.

    Rather that there are other trials on going in which not all the detailed are not allowed to be reported, but we do know if he hadn't been killed he would have stood trial for planning an assassination and associates have been already found guilty for their part in it.

    The people protesting this evening clearly think was are supposed to believe he was just a random innocent bloke unlawfully killed by the police.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,308
    edited October 21
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 962
    many Arab Americans are Christian.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    Nunu5 said:

    many Arab Americans are Christian.
    and rich
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 962

    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly the conversation of reparations has been pushed up the agenda again. If Labour decides to pay up, can Black and Asian people opt out of the additional tax as historic victims of slavery?

    Even Starmer isn't tinned ear enough to cave in to those demands.
    it won't be a straight up reparations. It will be billions of pounds in "aid" money.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly the conversation of reparations has been pushed up the agenda again. If Labour decides to pay up, can Black and Asian people opt out of the additional tax as historic victims of slavery?

    Even Starmer isn't tinned ear enough to cave in to those demands.
    it won't be a straight up reparations. It will be billions of pounds in "aid" money.
    Be a brave move.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Quote:

    "After an hour waiting outside the sports centre where the town hall was taking place, and two more hours wandering around inside before Trump arrived, I had time for a dozen short conversations. They were mostly about how difficult life has become for people in Michigan. Factories keep closing or laying off workers, and inflation has wiped out a large chunk of their income and savings. Drugs and alcohol are everywhere.
    This is an America with no visible signs of wealth. From downtown Detroit to Dearborn and Warren, and then the rural counties north of Flint, there is rampant poverty, dwindling opportunities and an ageing population. By next year, more than 40 per cent of Michigan counties will have more than a quarter of their population older than 65. Many attendees told me they were unemployed. All complained about grocery prices. They spoke with little ambition for their jobs, careers, and even for their children."
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    What about Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln MP???

    And this guy calls himself a political scientist!!!
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,723
    viewcode said:

    Regarding the inclusion of Benn: as David Edgerton points out, the 80's was basically an argument between Thatcher (and hence Joseph) and Benn. It should also be pointed out that his work on democracy inspired Brexiteers (I think Gove explicitly mentioned this?). I think the theoreticians are, for good or ill, the more interesting, so I'd also include Daniel Hannan.

    Hannan is a complete fraud though. Pretty much every 'intellectual' argument he's ever made has been entirely false. With disastrous results for both his party and the country.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    This was one of the most striking things to me about the US the first time I went there. As a country it's incredibly diverse, but it's a diverse collection of little mono-cultures.

    That said, I expect people know more voters from the other side than they think they do. A lot of people just don't like to get in an argument and if you say something a bit political they'll mirror it back to you to be friendly. I expect more so now than before, as conservative culture is getting more violent and progressive culture is getting more judgemental.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    I wonder what the odds are of Harris winning the election with Arizona, Nevada and North Carolina (plus Michigan), but not carrying Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,324
    edited October 21
    Ive seen some claims doing the rounds that GOP favouring pollsters have been pumping out a high volume of polls favouring Trump, not surprisingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,308
    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    That's true here too. In the PB village Sunak would have won a landslide.
    On what grounds? I can think of only about 5 who definitely voted for Sunak on here, me, BigG, TSE and JohnO and Casino
    Oh come, come. @MarqueeMark putting a cross besides the yellow peril. I think not!

    Onto the other question of the night. What about Hume and Trimble as a double header?

    What a great debate this evening. It is of course only enabled because it is bedtime in Japan.
    Pete, you assume anyone who doesn't share your consistent loathing of the Tories must be a Tory!
    Now that's not a fair analysis. I utterly despise the Johnsonian Tories but I would be quite content to see a Government of Gaulke, Spreadsheet, Grieve, Soubry, Stewart and many, many others. I suspect there are many Tories who do share my loathing and despise Johnsonian Conservatives, including those former Tories named above.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    That's true here too. In the PB village Sunak would have won a landslide.
    On what grounds? I can think of only about 5 who definitely voted for Sunak on here, me, BigG, TSE and JohnO and Casino
    Oh come, come. @MarqueeMark putting a cross besides the yellow peril. I think not!

    Onto the other question of the night. What about Hume and Trimble as a double header?

    What a great debate this evening. It is of course only enabled because it is bedtime in Japan.
    Pete, you assume anyone who doesn't share your consistent loathing of the Tories must be a Tory!
    Now that's not a fair analysis. I utterly despise the Johnsonian Tories but I would be quite content to see a Government of Gaulke, Spreadsheet, Grieve, Soubry, Stewart and many, many others. I suspect there are many Tories who do share my loathing and despise Johnsonian Conservatives, including those former Tories named above.
    Is that Spreadsheet Shapps or Spreadsheet Hammond
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There does seem to be a momentum for Trump, although I suspect the election remains close. On the YouTube channels I watch that would indeed seem to be the case. Maybe they are all wishcasting but then maybe you are too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    Live stream of New Brunswick election with Éric Grenier and Philippe Fournier.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVEDPPanW0E
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    That's true here too. In the PB village Sunak would have won a landslide.
    On what grounds? I can think of only about 5 who definitely voted for Sunak on here, me, BigG, TSE and JohnO and Casino
    Oh come, come. @MarqueeMark putting a cross besides the yellow peril. I think not!

    Onto the other question of the night. What about Hume and Trimble as a double header?

    What a great debate this evening. It is of course only enabled because it is bedtime in Japan.
    Pete, you assume anyone who doesn't share your consistent loathing of the Tories must be a Tory!
    Now that's not a fair analysis. I utterly despise the Johnsonian Tories but I would be quite content to see a Government of Gaulke, Spreadsheet, Grieve, Soubry, Stewart and many, many others. I suspect there are many Tories who do share my loathing and despise Johnsonian Conservatives, including those former Tories named above.
    Is that Spreadsheet Shapps or Spreadsheet Hammond
    Phil.

    Shapps is on my naughty list.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,308
    Trump is so happy to discover that the process of putting the McDonalds fries in the cardboard sleeve is hygienic:

    https://x.com/danscavino/status/1848075113238852092
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,701
    edited October 21
    Startling in the severity with which voting integrity process is being treated in MIchigan.

    Michigan Attorney Charging 4 votes and 3 election staff with felonies in relation to 4 cases of double voting - ie 4 people voted both in absence and on voting day, and election workers allowed them to go through over alarms on the system.

    Penalties are up to 5 years.

    "Election Integrity Matters"
    Michigan AG announces charges in double-voting case
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyFSPoG4S4k

    (It's always interesting which areas of law are applied precisely, and which are just ignored. For the other, try the enforcement of traffic tickets against NYPD employees, or where they have deliberately obscured their number plates.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    The Serious Fraud Office is investigating the construction of a hotel and conference centre owned by one of the UK’s biggest trade unions, the BBC can reveal.

    Unite the Union spent a total of £112m of its members’ money on the project in Birmingham.

    The building has since been valued at just £29m, suggesting £83m has been wasted.

    A KC-led inquiry commissioned by Unite’s general secretary Sharon Graham also identified a missing £14m which has been described as a “mystery” and does not feature in the project’s final accounts.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5z54236wgo

    Unite are running projects in the style of government?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423

    The Serious Fraud Office is investigating the construction of a hotel and conference centre owned by one of the UK’s biggest trade unions, the BBC can reveal.

    Unite the Union spent a total of £112m of its members’ money on the project in Birmingham.

    The building has since been valued at just £29m, suggesting £83m has been wasted.

    A KC-led inquiry commissioned by Unite’s general secretary Sharon Graham also identified a missing £14m which has been described as a “mystery” and does not feature in the project’s final accounts.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5z54236wgo

    Unite are running projects in the style of government?
    No - this hotel actually got built.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    New Brunswick provincial general election 2024

    Initial results looking good for NB Liberals versus incumbent NB Progressive Conservatives, but still WAY too early to tell.

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/new-brunswick/2024/results/
    https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6538524
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135

    New Brunswick provincial general election 2024

    Initial results looking good for NB Liberals versus incumbent NB Progressive Conservatives, but still WAY too early to tell.

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/new-brunswick/2024/results/
    https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6538524

    You can also watch on YouTube here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8PUJTwlYgw
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Got any source for that claim?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,324
    edited October 21
    Just a quick note on Israel-Iran. It is unlikely there will be any more cabinet meetings or anything else before an attack. The US is still desperately trying to tamper down the Israeli response and the reported visit by the ever smooth Anthony Blinken to Jerusalem tomorrow (that is Tuesday) is noteworthy as perhaps another delay tactic.

    Israels own delays are around shoring up defences. The US THAAD battery is now ready, though Israel has asked for another, not an easy thing for the US to release. The other concern Israel has is that it hasnt got enough anti ballistic missiles in stock. Israeli companies are doing 24/7 shifts to keep them coming. The other self imposed delay is simple strategic ambiguity.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,955
    One of the most striking features of modern American politics is the number of mixed marriages among prominent politicians. I'll mention just a few: Mitch McConnell, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris, Jeb Bush, and Clarence Thomas.

    Or are the children of mixed marriages, for example, Bruce Harrell (Seattle mayor). In Oklahoma, it is still a political plus to be part Indian.

    In general both those mixes seem to be political pluses -- in most places. Despite the efforts of those who favor identity politics.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    What about Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln MP???

    And this guy calls himself a political scientist!!!
    What about Vernon Bogdanor, responsible for a generation of Oxford PPE graduates unleashed on Britain, like David Cameron, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak. Or Ed Davey, Ed Balls and Ed Miliband.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,701
    edited October 21
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    UKIP at the time was Nigel Farage and his mates.

    Nigel Farage left UKIP and created Reform instead - so yep a brand has disappeared but Farage is still around attracting a particular type of voter...

    Sir Vernon Bogdanor, Cameron's old PPE tutor, has included Farage in his list of the 6 most influential UK politicians since WW2 who never became PM which form the basis of his new book.

    Benn, Bevan, Powell, Jenkins and Joseph also make the list
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Weather-Politicians-Changed-Britain-ebook/dp/B0DDSZXLXC
    Difficult to argue with that list.

    The standout ones for me are Jenkins and Farage for what they achieved, although Bevan also maybe, but he is before my time. Benn, Powell and Joseph I don't think achieved as much.

    A missing one is possibly Healy.
    Hmmm.

    I would have said missing out Butler, Gaitskell, Dalton, Cripps, Crosland and Macleod for the likes of Powell or Jenkins raises some serious questions over the reliability of that list.

    Really, it’s always bound to be subjective, but the omissions are pretty glaring. Sounds more like a wish list of people he’s heard of and wants to write about than a realistic assessment of who mattered and when.

    However it could have been worse. He could have included Roy Hattersley.
    It looks more like the effect they had on the political parties and elections than what they did in government.

    Powell with his effect on 1970 and 1974.

    Jenkins with his effect on the SDP and 1983.
    I think there's a much bigger case for putting Powell on there than Benn.
    Others in the next category down:

    - David Owen
    - Ken Livingstone
    - Alex Salmond
    - Barbara Castle
    - Bill Cash
    Hmmm: you can make a case for Cash (early proponent of Brexit), and Salmond (the rise of the SNP in Scotland.)

    Owen is a bit... meh... because he's like Jenkins only with the number of achievements before the SDP.

    And Livingstone was a nonentity as an MP.

    While Barbara Castle, other than being (the first?) women cabinet minister, what's the case for her being particularly influential?
    I thought the Duchess of Atholl came before her as a minister, but even she was perhaps first equal (would need to check timings).

    https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons-information-office/m04c.pdf

    Mrs Castle - In Place of Strife and Equal Pay Act.

    Drunk Driving Laws. National Speed Limit. Seatbelts fitted to all new cars. All were prescient.

    All 1966-1967.

    Road deaths peaked at 8,000 in 1966.
    By 1980 they were down to 6,000, and 5,000 by 1990.

    Just between 1966 and 1980 that's about 14,000 people who weren't dead. That uses the assumption in would have stuck 8,000 a year; in fact the trend was sharply up at that stage.


    Interesting! Definitely an arguable case there.

    The WW2 figure must be blackout and young services drivers (not just US lorries either), more than compensating for the reduction in driving.
    I'm interested in the two knees on the chart where improvement stopped in 1997 and 2010.

    2010 was Cameron dropping the New Labour casualty reduction targets.

    What happened to stall improvement between 1997 and 2003 ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    Breaking - CBC projects Liberal majority government in New Brunswick, overthrowing incumbent Progressive Conservative provincial government.

    With Liberal leader Susan Hicks to be first Premier in NB history.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Letter from Michigan: “No one I know is voting for Kamala Harris”
    Will Donald Trump win the struggling swing state?
    By Bruno Maçães"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2024/2024/10/letter-from-michigan-no-one-i-know-is-voting-kamala-harris

    Harris voters only know Harris voters.
    Trump voters only know Trump voters.

    It's one of the most unhealthy things about US democracy right now.
    That's true here too. In the PB village Sunak would have won a landslide.
    On what grounds? I can think of only about 5 who definitely voted for Sunak on here, me, BigG, TSE and JohnO and Casino
    Oh come, come. @MarqueeMark putting a cross besides the yellow peril. I think not!

    Onto the other question of the night. What about Hume and Trimble as a double header?

    What a great debate this evening. It is of course only enabled because it is bedtime in Japan.
    Pete, you assume anyone who doesn't share your consistent loathing of the Tories must be a Tory!
    Now that's not a fair analysis. I utterly despise the Johnsonian Tories but I would be quite content to see a Government of Gaulke, Spreadsheet, Grieve, Soubry, Stewart and many, many others. I suspect there are many Tories who do share my loathing and despise Johnsonian Conservatives, including those former Tories named above.
    Is that Spreadsheet Shapps or Spreadsheet Hammond
    I think you may have misheard the adjective for Shapps. It's not spreadsheet, it's spreadsh[That's enough - Ed]
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534

    One of the most striking features of modern American politics is the number of mixed marriages among prominent politicians. I'll mention just a few: Mitch McConnell, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris, Jeb Bush, and Clarence Thomas.

    Or are the children of mixed marriages, for example, Bruce Harrell (Seattle mayor). In Oklahoma, it is still a political plus to be part Indian.

    In general both those mixes seem to be political pluses -- in most places. Despite the efforts of those who favor identity politics.

    Or perhaps BECAUSE of identity politics? Which is NOT as inevitably as blinkered and narrow as some may suppose.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,701
    Nunu5 said:

    many Arab Americans are Christian.
    Fun fact: only 31% of Iranian Americans are Muslim:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Americans
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573

    Breaking - CBC projects Liberal majority government in New Brunswick, overthrowing incumbent Progressive Conservative provincial government.

    With Liberal leader Susan Hicks to be first Premier in NB history.

    Missing word?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    In New Brunswick, the incumbent Tories are more than losing, they are getting a right kicking by the voters.

    Liberal Party
    158,856 48.6% = 31 elected or leading (+14 since 2020)
    Progressive Conservative Party
    114,182 34.9% = 16 elected or leading (-11)
    Green Party
    44,540 13.6% = 2 elected or leading (-1)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    edited October 22
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
    Kamala ate her lunch quickly and is now looking around for afters, finding none.
    Trump ate his lunch more slowly and has still to clean his plate.
    We don't know who has more food.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    MattW said:

    Nunu5 said:

    many Arab Americans are Christian.
    Fun fact: only 31% of Iranian Americans are Muslim:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Americans
    That's why they're not in Iran.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    The premier of New Brunswick has lost his own seat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    viewcode said:
    Thanks viewcode. About to read it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
    Kamala ate her lunch quickly and is now looking around for afters, finding none.
    Trump ate his lunch more slowly and has still to clean his plate.
    We don't know who has more food.
    Nor do we know if the changes the pollsters have made have made them better at finding Trump voters, nor if in their attempts to weight by past vote they may have overcorrected.

    Nor do we know if the abortion referendums in Arizona, Nevada and Florida will have any impact on turnout.

    Essentially, all we know right now is that the pollsters say it is close.

    And it might be. Or it might not be.

    Neither Trump +5, not Harris +5 would surprise me that much, even though that is a difference of 14 million votes between the margins of the two candidates.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879
    viewcode said:
    That's a good piece, albeit it chooses to ignore examples that point the other way, such as Quebec in Canada.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,983

    In New Brunswick, the incumbent Tories are more than losing, they are getting a right kicking by the voters.

    Liberal Party
    158,856 48.6% = 31 elected or leading (+14 since 2020)
    Progressive Conservative Party
    114,182 34.9% = 16 elected or leading (-11)
    Green Party
    44,540 13.6% = 2 elected or leading (-1)

    They went Woke, and ignored their own base. Sound familiar?

    "Policy 713, a provincial education policy which sets minimum requirements for public schools and districts in the province related to individuals identifying and perceived as LGBTQIA2S+, became the subject of massive debate following a 2023 decision made to review and ultimately revise the policy by the Progressive Conservative-led government under Higgs and Bill Hogan, the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. In the aftermath of its revision, a third of the Progressive Conservative caucus members elected under Higgs have either resigned or announced that they would not seek re-election, with some criticizing Higgs' leadership and highlighting a growing disconnect between their personal beliefs and the party's stance."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
    Kamala ate her lunch quickly and is now looking around for afters, finding none.
    Trump ate his lunch more slowly and has still to clean his plate.
    We don't know who has more food.
    Nor do we know if the changes the pollsters have made have made them better at finding Trump voters, nor if in their attempts to weight by past vote they may have overcorrected.

    Nor do we know if the abortion referendums in Arizona, Nevada and Florida will have any impact on turnout.

    Essentially, all we know right now is that the pollsters say it is close.

    And it might be. Or it might not be.

    Neither Trump +5, not Harris +5 would surprise me that much, even though that is a difference of 14 million votes between the margins of the two candidates.
    Well yes, but I do have to bring you up on one point, specifically "Nor do we know if the changes the pollsters have made have made them better at finding Trump voters"

    In the UK, changes made due to the previous election (from memory) made things worse in 2015, 2017, and 2024. Adjustments to the weights and variables are only best-guesses based on the last election, and the last election was exceptional, being held in the middle of a pandemic.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    Andy_JS said:

    The premier of New Brunswick has lost his own seat.

    He was NOT alone; 5 members of his provincial cabinet also bit the Big Weenie of Defeat tonight.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,879
    This is a really good piece from Nate Silver: https://substack.com/home/post/p-150143916?source=queue

    The question is are the pollsters right?

    And - basically - in 2020, what you should have done is throw away the State polling, see that Biden was running about 2.5% ahead of Hillary in the national polling, and simply add that to her vote count in every State. Which would have gotten you almost exactly the right result.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    edited October 22
    It's probably getting more and more difficult for pollsters to get accurate results because the population as a whole (in most countries) is getting increasingly diverse in lots of different ways that no-one fully understands.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
    Kamala ate her lunch quickly and is now looking around for afters, finding none.
    Trump ate his lunch more slowly and has still to clean his plate.
    We don't know who has more food.
    Nor do we know if the changes the pollsters have made have made them better at finding Trump voters, nor if in their attempts to weight by past vote they may have overcorrected.

    Nor do we know if the abortion referendums in Arizona, Nevada and Florida will have any impact on turnout.

    Essentially, all we know right now is that the pollsters say it is close.

    And it might be. Or it might not be.

    Neither Trump +5, not Harris +5 would surprise me that much, even though that is a difference of 14 million votes between the margins of the two candidates.
    Well yes, but I do have to bring you up on one point, specifically "Nor do we know if the changes the pollsters have made have made them better at finding Trump voters"

    In the UK, changes made due to the previous election (from memory) made things worse in 2015, 2017, and 2024. Adjustments to the weights and variables are only best-guesses based on the last election, and the last election was exceptional, being held in the middle of a pandemic.
    The pollsters' fallacy is to try to fix sampling problems by weighting. Finding the Trump demographics missed last time is a sampling issue.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534

    In New Brunswick, the incumbent Tories are more than losing, they are getting a right kicking by the voters.

    Liberal Party
    158,856 48.6% = 31 elected or leading (+14 since 2020)
    Progressive Conservative Party
    114,182 34.9% = 16 elected or leading (-11)
    Green Party
    44,540 13.6% = 2 elected or leading (-1)

    They went Woke, and ignored their own base. Sound familiar?

    "Policy 713, a provincial education policy which sets minimum requirements for public schools and districts in the province related to individuals identifying and perceived as LGBTQIA2S+, became the subject of massive debate following a 2023 decision made to review and ultimately revise the policy by the Progressive Conservative-led government under Higgs and Bill Hogan, the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. In the aftermath of its revision, a third of the Progressive Conservative caucus members elected under Higgs have either resigned or announced that they would not seek re-election, with some criticizing Higgs' leadership and highlighting a growing disconnect between their personal beliefs and the party's stance."
    Source of quatation?

    Note that "in the wake of" doing a LOT of lifting, for example implying that ALL of NB Progressive Conservative governing caucus resignations/retirements due to anti-Wokeism?

    Any actual evidence that PC base is actually as anti-gay/trans as you are? OR that the today's election was lost because PC's "ignored their own base".

    It appears they may have lost by catering toooooooo much to their base!

    More recent polling (from this summer) shows that BIG ISSUE for voters was/is health care.

    https://nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024-2651-N.B.-Political-July-Omni-Populated-report.pdf

    Fun fact: while new Premier Susan Holt affirmed her support for LBGT New Brunswickers in her victory speech tonight, her husband stood behind her . . . wearing a large rainbow flag belt-buckle.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    Ive seen some claims doing the roubds that GOP favouring pollsters havew been pumping out a highy volume of polls favouring Trump, not surpsingly, in order to create an impression

    No idea how much veracity to it but nothing would surprise me.

    However since those claims started circulating, the shift to Trump has been backed up by 'high-quality' polls, so it seems to be real.
    There has definitely been a move to Trump. But - so far - it's a pretty small one: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    Since the beginning of the month, the national gap has shrunk from a 2.8 percentage points Harris lead, to a 1.8% one. Most of this has come from Trump increasing his share of the vote from 45.7% to 46.4%, while Harris has just shed 0.2% to 48.2%.
    I suspect this is the most accurate assessment of current polling on PB tonight. I tend to follow anti-Trump YouTube channels and they seem to remain reasonably comfortable (wishcasting?) but stress the need to get voting to ensure Trump doesn't win. We seem to opine on PB that Trump is home and hosed, quite possibly because we have a handful of Trump rampers who only post Trump-positive polls. Now they may be on the money of course, but I like your analysis better.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,946
    edited October 22

    In New Brunswick, the incumbent Tories are more than losing, they are getting a right kicking by the voters.

    Liberal Party
    158,856 48.6% = 31 elected or leading (+14 since 2020)
    Progressive Conservative Party
    114,182 34.9% = 16 elected or leading (-11)
    Green Party
    44,540 13.6% = 2 elected or leading (-1)

    They went Woke, and ignored their own base. Sound familiar?

    "Policy 713, a provincial education policy which sets minimum requirements for public schools and districts in the province related to individuals identifying and perceived as LGBTQIA2S+, became the subject of massive debate following a 2023 decision made to review and ultimately revise the policy by the Progressive Conservative-led government under Higgs and Bill Hogan, the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. In the aftermath of its revision, a third of the Progressive Conservative caucus members elected under Higgs have either resigned or announced that they would not seek re-election, with some criticizing Higgs' leadership and highlighting a growing disconnect between their personal beliefs and the party's stance."
    Source of quatation?

    Wikipedia, as a 5 second google shows.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_New_Brunswick_general_election

    Note that "in the wake of" doing a LOT of lifting, for example implying that ALL of NB Progressive Conservative governing caucus resignations/retirements due to anti-Wokeism?

    Any actual evidence that PC base is actually as anti-gay/trans as you are? OR that the today's election was lost because PC's "ignored their own base".

    Just eyeballing the opinion polls in that wikipedia article, it seems that most of the decline in PC support occurred in 2020-1, and seemed to coincide with housing being the main issue. There was another, smaller, decline in the past year, when healthcare and 713 seemed more salient.

    Obviously none of us know anything about New Brunswick politics, but from the sparse data in the wikipedia article, the above seems plausible.
  • Gove's new BBC radio show (series?) "Surviving Politics" is excellent, imo.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    In New Brunswick, the incumbent Tories are more than losing, they are getting a right kicking by the voters.

    Liberal Party
    158,856 48.6% = 31 elected or leading (+14 since 2020)
    Progressive Conservative Party
    114,182 34.9% = 16 elected or leading (-11)
    Green Party
    44,540 13.6% = 2 elected or leading (-1)

    They went Woke, and ignored their own base. Sound familiar?

    "Policy 713, a provincial education policy which sets minimum requirements for public schools and districts in the province related to individuals identifying and perceived as LGBTQIA2S+, became the subject of massive debate following a 2023 decision made to review and ultimately revise the policy by the Progressive Conservative-led government under Higgs and Bill Hogan, the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. In the aftermath of its revision, a third of the Progressive Conservative caucus members elected under Higgs have either resigned or announced that they would not seek re-election, with some criticizing Higgs' leadership and highlighting a growing disconnect between their personal beliefs and the party's stance."
    Source of quatation?

    Note that "in the wake of" doing a LOT of lifting, for example implying that ALL of NB Progressive Conservative governing caucus resignations/retirements due to anti-Wokeism?

    Any actual evidence that PC base is actually as anti-gay/trans as you are? OR that the today's election was lost because PC's "ignored their own base".

    It appears they may have lost by catering toooooooo much to their base!

    More recent polling (from this summer) shows that BIG ISSUE for voters was/is health care.

    https://nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024-2651-N.B.-Political-July-Omni-Populated-report.pdf

    Fun fact: while new Premier Susan Holt affirmed her support for LBGT New Brunswickers in her victory speech tonight, her husband stood behind her . . . wearing a large rainbow flag belt-buckle.
    Let's hope he wears a little more in future.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Leon said:

    One for @JosiasJessop

    A row of self-driving waymos queuing to pick up concertgoers in SF last night


    Yes. Waymos. In SF. A carefully geofenced area, with people going locally within geofenced area.

    Cool, isn't it?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,983

    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.

    A low coefficient of friction is both a blessing and a curse for railways.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    edited October 22

    Gove's new BBC radio show (series?) "Surviving Politics" is excellent, imo.

    Series, with six episodes available for downstreaming now:-
    1. Introducing... Surviving Politics with Michael Gove
    2. Surviving Politics with Michael Gove: Margaret Hodge
    3. Surviving Politics with Michael Gove: Peter Mandelson
    4. Surviving Politics with Michael Gove: Amber Rudd
    5. Surviving Politics with Michael Gove: Arlene Foster
    6. Surviving Politics with Michael Gove: Humza Yousaf
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00244lr/episodes/guide
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Don't worry. I think your team has got this. Hats off to William Glenn for his endeavours.

    Still don't see the attraction myself mind.
    I want Trump to lose.

    Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.
    Trump does nothing *but* spout bigoted crap, so even if you were right (which you are not) that can’t be a possible explanation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Breaking: A woman was wedged between boulders for seven hours after she slipped head-first into a three-metre crevice while trying to retrieve her phone in regional New South Wales.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    ydoethur said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Don't worry. I think your team has got this. Hats off to William Glenn for his endeavours.

    Still don't see the attraction myself mind.
    I want Trump to lose.

    Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.
    Trump does nothing *but* spout bigoted crap, so even if you were right (which you are not) that can’t be a possible explanation.
    Not logically true

    Trump voters are looking for a solution to their tough lies

    Trump offers them that (albeit simplistic and one that one work, but they don’t know that).

    Harris/Walz don’t
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 22

    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.

    Oh crap, that’s the Aberystwyth train. From memory that line is single track pretty much all the way from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth, with only a couple of passing places for the trains to cross. It was common to have to sit and wait for the other train to arrive. Very rural area.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.

    Even allowing for leaf mould, we should be asking how the points were set in such a way that an approaching train ended up in the wrong part of a passing loop.

    Details are a bit scanty but it’s presumably at Talerddig where there is a steep hill - indeed, the passing loop was retained so there would be time to pin/unpin the brakes in the days before DMUs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited October 22

    ydoethur said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Don't worry. I think your team has got this. Hats off to William Glenn for his endeavours.

    Still don't see the attraction myself mind.
    I want Trump to lose.

    Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.
    Trump does nothing *but* spout bigoted crap, so even if you were right (which you are not) that can’t be a possible explanation.
    Not logically true

    Trump voters are looking for a solution to their tough lies

    Trump offers them that (albeit simplistic and one that one work, but they don’t know that).

    Harris/Walz don’t
    I’m not sure of your point, unless you say that babbling nonsense about sharks, eating pets, Jesus counting ballots, racist abuse of his rival and the deep state is not ‘bigoted crap’ and is instead somehow a solution to people’s ills.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: tipped Ferrari yesterday for the Constructors', at 9.5. Now down to 6. If they have a good Mexico, this may be hedgeable sooner rather than later, but as I've also backed McLaren at 4.1 I'll just let it ride, most likely.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    ydoethur said:

    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.

    Even allowing for leaf mould, we should be asking how the points were set in such a way that an approaching train ended up in the wrong part of a passing loop.

    Details are a bit scanty but it’s presumably at Talerddig where there is a steep hill - indeed, the passing loop was retained so there would be time to pin/unpin the brakes in the days before DMUs.
    Yes, I wondered that. Apparently it is one of the test lines for the new ETCS level 2 signalling system, though I doubt that would have had much bearing on the issue.

    A few decades ago, there was a crash in ?Essex? where the first passenger train on a Monday morning went into the buffers at a terminus. The previous day, the line had been closed for tests. They had put a gel on the rails to lower adhesion and ran trains along to test different techniques to counter it. This was a couple of miles away from the terminus.

    Except they did not clean the rails properly. The first service train the nest day went along the line, got its wheels coated in the gel, and could not stop.

    (From memory; details might be wrong...)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Oh, and in other news, we are now the proud hostages of two kittens.

    The first steps on Mrs J's path to becoming a mad cat lady. :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited October 22
    ydoethur said:

    There was a rain 'crash' (collision) in Wales last night; one person died of a heart attack. It looks as though a train lost traction and slid into a loop, where it hit a waiting train.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0yg7m8meo

    The railways still haven't got over the problems of leaf fall in autumn and the light DMUs used nowadays (heavy trains tend to break down the leaf mulch and make better contact with the rail). Apparently a railhead treatment train, which is designed to break down the mulch on the rails passed along the line yesterday.

    Even allowing for leaf mould, we should be asking how the points were set in such a way that an approaching train ended up in the wrong part of a passing loop.

    Details are a bit scanty but it’s presumably at Talerddig where there is a steep hill - indeed, the passing loop was retained so there would be time to pin/unpin the brakes in the days before DMUs.
    Sounds like it’s close to there, possibly at Llanbrynmair a couple of miles NW of Talerddig.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/21/two-trains-crash-wales-llanbrynmair-powys/

    There’s about 10 miles of A470/A489 closed, from Glantwymyn to the junction at Plas Llysyn, 2/3 of the way to Caersws, according to Google Maps.

    (Good luck to any English journos trying to type all those names out this morning!)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Oh, and in other news, we are now the proud hostages of two kittens.

    The first steps on Mrs J's path to becoming a mad cat lady. :)

    Does she not need to get rid of you first?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972

    Haven't heard that one before but I do remember Walz peddling stories about Vance's sexual activities.

    The 'Vance shags his couch' being a variant of 'hillbillies shag their sisters'.
    Don't worry. I think your team has got this. Hats off to William Glenn for his endeavours.

    Still don't see the attraction myself mind.
    I want Trump to lose.

    Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.
    Trump does nothing *but* spout bigoted crap, so even if you were right (which you are not) that can’t be a possible explanation.
    Not logically true

    Trump voters are looking for a solution to their tough lies

    Trump offers them that (albeit simplistic and one that one work, but they don’t know that).

    Harris/Walz don’t
    I’m not sure of your point, unless you say that babbling nonsense about sharks, eating pets, Jesus
    counting ballots, racist abuse of his rival and
    the deep state is not ‘bigoted crap’ and is
    instead somehow a solution to people’s ills.
    He’s saying “your life is shit, it’s not your fault. It’s the others. I’m going to protect you and look after you”.

    Everything else is details.

    It’s garbage but it’s appealing.

    The Democrats are not communicating a solution that works to the left behind.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    I am happy to report that Kyoto is still magical. But Japanese breakfasts are still disgusting
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    DavidL said:

    Oh, and in other news, we are now the proud hostages of two kittens.

    The first steps on Mrs J's path to becoming a mad cat lady. :)

    Does she not need to get rid of you first?
    Step two of the plan, I fear.... :)
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