'Angels of Victory memorial, which is being created in the forest near Moshchun, where some of the fiercest battles to defend Kyiv from Russian invaders took place in March 2022.'
Not to kill the mood, but Babi Yar would be worth visiting and one would likely need a strong drink afterwards. I believe it featured in a distinguished British novel.
Edit: beaten to it by the lad hisself!
Btw I am going anyway. It’s one of the reasons I’m coming to Kyiv. How could I not go there!?
I’ve just been writing about the Kishinev pogrom for the gazette. Quite astonishingly pivotal in world history
Babi Yar took place shortly before the Wannsee conference. There’s a school of thought that suggests that the impunity with which the boys in black & feldgrau carried out the massacres encouraged Hitler to go gang busters on the Final Solution.
The Nazis had a doctrine of incremental radicalisation - this was one of the arguments with the Left Nazis, who wanted complete revolution *now*.
Combine this with Working Towards The Leader (imagine what Hitler would want and do that) and you have competitive escalation.
So the massacres and butchery got worse and worse.
Wansee was about formalising and taking control of the murder. As a political power move by Himmler and Heydrich. And making sure everyone understood they were all part of it.
Now back at my computer. I hadn't been out properly before today - we'd done social media but not pressing the flesh. It is extraordinary, like nothing I have sensed since 1997, the level of anger.
Tory last time voters volunteering up the defenestration of David Duguid and our Normandy shame. A country adrift. SNP last time voters raising the terrible state of public services and wondering why Flynn is boasting about it in debates.
And I met the SNP candidate! Handshake and a photo together. Even he thinks I can come second (with a laugh, but he's serious).
What does it mean? Governing parties are in for a beating, and for the Tories I fear it may be terminal. I don't get any sense of the SNP benefiting from not being Tory - I canvassed adjacent doors to the SNP for a few minutes and they were told to go away and I was listened to. And thats in Strichen - where Alex Salmond lives.
In England? Reform are going to monster the Tories in red wall type seats, the LibDems and Labour everywhere else. Forget crossover, I think the Tories aren't going to be the official opposition.
I need to have a think about how I can craft the next round of social media stuff, but I think I stand a much better chance this weekend than I did last weekend...
I want to know your view on North Sea oil. I will probably be working in Aberdeen second half of this year. Labour want to shut the whole industry down what's the LibDem position ?
I'm not looking forward to having to put a pile of decent people out of work.
We want to keep the NE at the heart of the energy sector for decades to come. Oil and gas are absolutely at the heart of that, but we need a just transition into renewables to keep up there. What is a "just" transition? Not trying to turn the taps off as the SNP tried to do. Not going against renewables as the Tories tried to do.
Its both. I heat my house by oil remember, and make YouTube videos about my electric car. Just transition means that you can have both and convert dying gas fields into CCS and migrate jobs into the bonanza that is wind.
a reminder of what a windfall tax can do to North Sea revenues:
A reminder that Norway has been much more consistent in taxing its petroleum industry and has therefore succeeded in generating more taxation and more production.
And what a fantastic country it is in which to live or dwell.
Amongst the happiest people on earth, in the top two (the other being Finland)
You know they bulldoze ethnic minority ghettoes if they feel they are refusing to assimilate?
“How Denmark’s ‘ghetto list’ is ripping apart migrant communities Copenhagen and other cities are planning mass housing evictions in a ‘social experiment’ to encourage integration”
The scenario outlined in that Bloomberg article seems quite plausible. If the Tories are left with 100-150 seats and Farage gets elected but Reform fail to break through in terms of seats, there will be a lot of pressure to let him join the party and run for the leadership.
It might lead to a load of Never-Farage Tories leaving the party, but would mean we'd be left with a consolidated right-wing movement.
No we would not as the very significant chunk of right wingers, like myself, @Big_G_NorthWales and many, many, many more on here alone who despise Farage would be left outside the party of the right.
You're more of a liberal internationalist, so maybe you would be more at home in a party of like-minded people.
I'm more of a liberal nationalist than a liberal internationalist.
And having disparate parties of "like minded people" is not united big tent parties like you claimed.
Liberal nationalism is pretty much Farage's philosophical position, so why do you despise him?
How the hell is Farage liberal !?
I despise him as he's a racist anti-immigration xenophobe.
The main way in which he's a liberal is that he believes in free speech. Defending what other people say even if you disagree with it.
Except he doesn't.
He's all for banning all kinds of free speech with which he disagrees e.g. his policies in this election include illiberally banning schools from teaching "gender ideology" or "critical race theory" - how is that liberal, to ban schools and universities from teaching things?gay rights or gender rights in schools (to quote directly @BartholomewRoberts previous thread)
“Zero tolerance” policing, which the party said has been a success in New York, would mean offenders received jail sentences for all violent crimes and the possession of a knife. A new offence of substantial possession of drugs would lead to heavy fines, while the use of stop-and-search would be vastly expanded, with Reform hailing it as a “proven deterrent to knife crime”.
Police leadership teams would be reviewed and where necessary replaced, with a “strong preference” for military veterans.
All diversity, equality and inclusion roles and regulations would be abolished in an attempt to stop what Mr Tice referred to in his spring conference speech as “two-tier policing”.
Police and Crime Commissioners would either be scrapped or reformed – “either they get the power to make a real change or they should go” – and degree-standard entry would be replaced with entrance exams, while officers would have to complete two years of probation.
Violent offenders would receive automatic life imprisonment as part of an urgent review.
The definition of hate crime would be changed in order to require “proper evidence”, pro-Palestinian marches banned using existing powers, 10,000 new detention places created and the budget of the National Crime Agency increased to tackle foreign gang crime.
Young offenders, meanwhile, would face high intensity training camps that would reopen to offer “basic education, training and values… [This model] is needed more than ever.”
Critical Race Theory attempts to teach all white children that they are intrinsically racist and sinful by virtue of their skin colour, and this racism can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated. Moreover, it tells white kids that if they deny their racism that is PROOF of their racism: as only a racist would deny they are racist
It is a vile, evil, degraded, and anti-white theology and it has as much place in our schools as outright white supremacism.
Look at it this way. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently superior and more noble? I imagine you don’t. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently morally inferior and sinful? Also no
That’s the position of Farage: teach neither of these things. What’s yours?
Ignoring the distorted way you are attempting to twist a viewpoint you disagree with, the very claim was that he supported speech he disagrees with but is banning it, which is clearly not free speech.
Plus of course:
Christianity attempts to teach all children that they are intrinsically sinful by virtue of original sin, and this sin can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated ...
Should teaching about Christianity be banned by your logic?
Slight footnote: Catholic Christianity teaches original sin. The Orthodox church doesn't, and the Church of England in its usual wonderful way is entirely ambiguous.
Though when I went to an Anglican school we were told all the time in services that we're all sinners.
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
After Sunak's disgraceful behaviour I have no idea how the conservatives deal with it but no matter, Farage being hailed as the Messiah of the right should worry anyone who believes in a fair society and democracy
He is Trump supporting, anti vax and net zero, and promotes division and discord
I notice @Roger dismisses him as virtually irrelevant but he is not.
The cameras are following him 24/7 and he is dominating the agenda so much I expect Labour supporters in the red wall may be attracted to his rhetoric, as any improvement for Reform can only come from them as he has converted as many conservatives as is likely
I do not know how this pans out and whether we will see tactical voting to try to dismiss his influence, but be not complacent, Farage as an MP will attrack a lot of attention and continue the disruption in our politics
An interesting feature of his 'disgraceful behaviour' is that he has a staff of 10,200! Even if his etiquette left a lot to be desired you would think at least one of the 10,200 would have a clue what the correct protocol ought to have been.
Now back at my computer. I hadn't been out properly before today - we'd done social media but not pressing the flesh. It is extraordinary, like nothing I have sensed since 1997, the level of anger.
Tory last time voters volunteering up the defenestration of David Duguid and our Normandy shame. A country adrift. SNP last time voters raising the terrible state of public services and wondering why Flynn is boasting about it in debates.
And I met the SNP candidate! Handshake and a photo together. Even he thinks I can come second (with a laugh, but he's serious).
What does it mean? Governing parties are in for a beating, and for the Tories I fear it may be terminal. I don't get any sense of the SNP benefiting from not being Tory - I canvassed adjacent doors to the SNP for a few minutes and they were told to go away and I was listened to. And thats in Strichen - where Alex Salmond lives.
In England? Reform are going to monster the Tories in red wall type seats, the LibDems and Labour everywhere else. Forget crossover, I think the Tories aren't going to be the official opposition.
I need to have a think about how I can craft the next round of social media stuff, but I think I stand a much better chance this weekend than I did last weekend...
I want to know your view on North Sea oil. I will probably be working in Aberdeen second half of this year. Labour want to shut the whole industry down what's the LibDem position ?
I'm not looking forward to having to put a pile of decent people out of work.
We want to keep the NE at the heart of the energy sector for decades to come. Oil and gas are absolutely at the heart of that, but we need a just transition into renewables to keep up there. What is a "just" transition? Not trying to turn the taps off as the SNP tried to do. Not going against renewables as the Tories tried to do.
Its both. I heat my house by oil remember, and make YouTube videos about my electric car. Just transition means that you can have both and convert dying gas fields into CCS and migrate jobs into the bonanza that is wind.
a reminder of what a windfall tax can do to North Sea revenues:
A reminder that Norway has been much more consistent in taxing its petroleum industry and has therefore succeeded in generating more taxation and more production.
And what a fantastic country it is in which to live or dwell.
Amongst the happiest people on earth, in the top two (the other being Finland)
You know they bulldoze ethnic minority ghettoes if they feel they are refusing to assimilate?
“How Denmark’s ‘ghetto list’ is ripping apart migrant communities Copenhagen and other cities are planning mass housing evictions in a ‘social experiment’ to encourage integration”
The scenario outlined in that Bloomberg article seems quite plausible. If the Tories are left with 100-150 seats and Farage gets elected but Reform fail to break through in terms of seats, there will be a lot of pressure to let him join the party and run for the leadership.
It might lead to a load of Never-Farage Tories leaving the party, but would mean we'd be left with a consolidated right-wing movement.
No we would not as the very significant chunk of right wingers, like myself, @Big_G_NorthWales and many, many, many more on here alone who despise Farage would be left outside the party of the right.
You're more of a liberal internationalist, so maybe you would be more at home in a party of like-minded people.
I'm more of a liberal nationalist than a liberal internationalist.
And having disparate parties of "like minded people" is not united big tent parties like you claimed.
Liberal nationalism is pretty much Farage's philosophical position, so why do you despise him?
How the hell is Farage liberal !?
I despise him as he's a racist anti-immigration xenophobe.
The main way in which he's a liberal is that he believes in free speech. Defending what other people say even if you disagree with it.
Except he doesn't.
He's all for banning all kinds of free speech with which he disagrees e.g. his policies in this election include illiberally banning schools from teaching "gender ideology" or "critical race theory" - how is that liberal, to ban schools and universities from teaching things?gay rights or gender rights in schools (to quote directly @BartholomewRoberts previous thread)
“Zero tolerance” policing, which the party said has been a success in New York, would mean offenders received jail sentences for all violent crimes and the possession of a knife. A new offence of substantial possession of drugs would lead to heavy fines, while the use of stop-and-search would be vastly expanded, with Reform hailing it as a “proven deterrent to knife crime”.
Police leadership teams would be reviewed and where necessary replaced, with a “strong preference” for military veterans.
All diversity, equality and inclusion roles and regulations would be abolished in an attempt to stop what Mr Tice referred to in his spring conference speech as “two-tier policing”.
Police and Crime Commissioners would either be scrapped or reformed – “either they get the power to make a real change or they should go” – and degree-standard entry would be replaced with entrance exams, while officers would have to complete two years of probation.
Violent offenders would receive automatic life imprisonment as part of an urgent review.
The definition of hate crime would be changed in order to require “proper evidence”, pro-Palestinian marches banned using existing powers, 10,000 new detention places created and the budget of the National Crime Agency increased to tackle foreign gang crime.
Young offenders, meanwhile, would face high intensity training camps that would reopen to offer “basic education, training and values… [This model] is needed more than ever.”
Critical Race Theory attempts to teach all white children that they are intrinsically racist and sinful by virtue of their skin colour, and this racism can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated. Moreover, it tells white kids that if they deny their racism that is PROOF of their racism: as only a racist would deny they are racist
It is a vile, evil, degraded, and anti-white theology and it has as much place in our schools as outright white supremacism.
Look at it this way. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently superior and more noble? I imagine you don’t. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently morally inferior and sinful? Also no
That’s the position of Farage: teach neither of these things. What’s yours?
Ignoring the distorted way you are attempting to twist a viewpoint you disagree with, the very claim was that he supported speech he disagrees with but is banning it, which is clearly not free speech.
Plus of course:
Christianity attempts to teach all children that they are intrinsically sinful by virtue of original sin, and this sin can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated ...
Should teaching about Christianity be banned by your logic?
Slight footnote: Catholic Christianity teaches original sin. The Orthodox church doesn't, and the Church of England in its usual wonderful way is entirely ambiguous.
Though when I went to an Anglican school we were told all the time in services that we're all sinners.
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
Didn’t Leon tell us extensively that he believed in God?
Or has he changed his mind about that as well as everything else?
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It is. But I wish I'd come of age before them, and had to learn how to talk to strangers to get out of problematic situations. I feel I'm very soft on that front.
First, thanks to @rcs1000 and @TSE for publishing my latest ramblings on matters close to home (well homes past in my case) and thanks to everyone for the comments and the betting suggestions.
I've used local election results, past GE results and my local knowledge to try and discern what might happen in these 21 crucial constituencies in the outer London suburbs on July 4th.
My guesttimate for London is Labour 61, Conservative 9 and Liberal Democrat 5.
The Conservative survivors could be: Harrow East, Ruislip Northwood & Pinner, Bromley & Biggin Hill, Old Bexley & Sidcup, Orpington, Croydon East, Croydon South, Hornchurch & Upminster and Romford.
Some of these will be expected - Croydon East is the one which may surprise. For those who don't know Croydon, it used to be the case the north of the Borough voted strongly Labour and the south strongly Conservative. There were a few battleground areas - Addiscombe, Waddon, Woodside, Selhurst and Fairfield which was where the Conservative and Labour parties fought.
New Addington, a council estate first planned as a Garden Village in the mid-30s but finished in the late 40s and 50s, was a Labour heartland of council houses - the Labour leader of the council, Valerie Shawcross, came from the estate in the 90s. However, the coming of the Croydon Tramlink and the fact properties were much cheaper than in central Croydon, along with the sale of the council properties, has changed the political composition.
New Addington has trended Conservative in recent years and at the 2022 the Conservatives won both the Wards. That, along with the fact Selsdon (traditionally Tory) and Shirley (ditto) are in the new Croydon East makes me think this area may be much tougher for Labour and the 10/1 on the Conservatives to win the seat (their candidate is a local councillor) looks a great bet.
Someone earlier pointed out laying Labour in Croydon South might be a good idea - I wouldn't disagree.
(Long-time lurker popping back for an election-time appearance.. greetings )
Strikes me that, quite apart from tilting the left-right balance, BoJo's purge of remainers before the 2019 election has left a deficit of pure and simple competence, relative to the current crop.
A whole generation of middle-ranking, maybe unremarkable at the time, ministers and MPs left the Commons after losing the whip.
Some of them would have shone in the past 4.5 years, tacking gently to the right a la Mordaunt and leaving Brexit behind as a do-or-die issue, to bring in enough proto-Reformers. The Hammonds, Gaukes, Grieves, Greenings etc.
Given the discussion here about the dearth of talent to succeed Sunak, it feels like that clear-out will come to be seen as a defining moment in creating the Tories' current and future survival-level struggles.
☝️ this person gets it
Yeah it was really good post and point, one that Leon and the other headbangers from the right could do with listening to.
It’s going to make the tories’ return that much harder and take that much longer.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Interesting to see how some PBers leapt to conclusion, that the assailant who attacked the Danish PM very recently, has been sentenced to just 12 day incarceration. Apparently without trial or any investigation as to motive or anything else.
Yeah, right. Or rather, wrong. Obviously!
Because that’s what the Reuters report said in its headline
“Man who attacked Danish PM sentenced to 12 days in custody”
Indeed it still says that after being updated. Very misleading
The English speaking media, particularly that in the U.K., often don’t understand the detail of legal procedure in their own jurisdictions.
I find this is true. Because of american tv shows and reporting on things like the Trump trials my legal knowledge is full of terms and principles that are american, and basic details of our own legal system are unknown to me.
No information on the Newham Council website as to the persons nominated for the General Election in East Ham or West Ham & Beckton.
News of yet another resignation from the ruling Labour group on the Council - two by elections scheduled for July 4th, another for the 18th and possibly a second on that day as well.
(Long-time lurker popping back for an election-time appearance.. greetings )
Strikes me that, quite apart from tilting the left-right balance, BoJo's purge of remainers before the 2019 election has left a deficit of pure and simple competence, relative to the current crop.
A whole generation of middle-ranking, maybe unremarkable at the time, ministers and MPs left the Commons after losing the whip.
Some of them would have shone in the past 4.5 years, tacking gently to the right a la Mordaunt and leaving Brexit behind as a do-or-die issue, to bring in enough proto-Reformers. The Hammonds, Gaukes, Grieves, Greenings etc.
Given the discussion here about the dearth of talent to succeed Sunak, it feels like that clear-out will come to be seen as a defining moment in creating the Tories' current and future survival-level struggles.
☝️ this person gets it
Yeah it was really good post and point, one that Leon and the other headbangers from the right could do with listening to.
It’s going to make the tories’ return that much harder and take that much longer.
And shows why the current lot has to lose very badly so that the centre right can reconstruct without illusions. Otherwise we will get a version of 'Labour won because we were not right wing enough. One more heave'.
The mob that are not going to have to govern (Reform) can always out-populist a party that has to pick up the pieces.
In case anyone missed this a few minutes with a Reform candidate for Horsham with one or two rather er....old fashioned views!! (I understand he was later replaced)
In case anyone missed this a few minutes with a Reform candidate for Horsham with one or two rather er....old fashioned views!! (I understand he was later replaced)
(Long-time lurker popping back for an election-time appearance.. greetings )
Strikes me that, quite apart from tilting the left-right balance, BoJo's purge of remainers before the 2019 election has left a deficit of pure and simple competence, relative to the current crop.
A whole generation of middle-ranking, maybe unremarkable at the time, ministers and MPs left the Commons after losing the whip.
Some of them would have shone in the past 4.5 years, tacking gently to the right a la Mordaunt and leaving Brexit behind as a do-or-die issue, to bring in enough proto-Reformers. The Hammonds, Gaukes, Grieves, Greenings etc.
Given the discussion here about the dearth of talent to succeed Sunak, it feels like that clear-out will come to be seen as a defining moment in creating the Tories' current and future survival-level struggles.
☝️ this person gets it
I think this analysis skips over the previous extinction level event that the tories had in the European elections in 2019. It was Johnson that saved the party and the purge of 'centrists/moderates' followed that. But after Dominic Cummings left government, there has been no strategy. There was a brief episode when the tories went 'woke', followed by madness, confusion, drift, and a vaguely convincing attempt to restore the 'sanity' and 'stability' of the coalition years. The drift in strategic direction cannot be overcome by competent politicians. People like Sunak, Hunt, Gove, Alex Chalk are highly competent, but politically the project had no credibility or direction. Nothing could be solved by bringing back people like Dominic Grieve or Rory Stewart.
No information on the Newham Council website as to the persons nominated for the General Election in East Ham or West Ham & Beckton.
News of yet another resignation from the ruling Labour group on the Council - two by elections scheduled for July 4th, another for the 18th and possibly a second on that day as well.
Not much sign of crossover from the latest We Think poll conducted yesterday and Thursday which still has the Tories on 20% ahead of Reform on 15% even if Labour well ahead overall on 45%.
Reform also lack the geographic concentration their Canadian counterparts had in 1993 in western Canada which enabled them to pick up lots of seats there.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commissioned by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
No information on the Newham Council website as to the persons nominated for the General Election in East Ham or West Ham & Beckton.
News of yet another resignation from the ruling Labour group on the Council - two by elections scheduled for July 4th, another for the 18th and possibly a second on that day as well.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
Not much sign of crossover from the latest We Think poll conducted yesterday and Thursday which still has the Tories on 20% ahead of Reform on 15% even if Labour well ahead overall on 45%.
Reform also lack the geographic concentration their Canadian counterparts had in 1993 in western Canada which enabled them to pick up lots of seats there.
Most voters in the blue wall and elsewhere know that public services are shot to pieces and tax cuts are not affordable or appropriate at this point imo.
The scenario outlined in that Bloomberg article seems quite plausible. If the Tories are left with 100-150 seats and Farage gets elected but Reform fail to break through in terms of seats, there will be a lot of pressure to let him join the party and run for the leadership.
It might lead to a load of Never-Farage Tories leaving the party, but would mean we'd be left with a consolidated right-wing movement.
No we would not as the very significant chunk of right wingers, like myself, @Big_G_NorthWales and many, many, many more on here alone who despise Farage would be left outside the party of the right.
You're more of a liberal internationalist, so maybe you would be more at home in a party of like-minded people.
I'm more of a liberal nationalist than a liberal internationalist.
And having disparate parties of "like minded people" is not united big tent parties like you claimed.
Liberal nationalism is pretty much Farage's philosophical position, so why do you despise him?
How the hell is Farage liberal !?
I despise him as he's a racist anti-immigration xenophobe.
The main way in which he's a liberal is that he believes in free speech. Defending what other people say even if you disagree with it.
Except he doesn't.
He's all for banning all kinds of free speech with which he disagrees e.g. his policies in this election include illiberally banning schools from teaching "gender ideology" or "critical race theory" - how is that liberal, to ban schools and universities from teaching things?gay rights or gender rights in schools (to quote directly @BartholomewRoberts previous thread)
“Zero tolerance” policing, which the party said has been a success in New York, would mean offenders received jail sentences for all violent crimes and the possession of a knife. A new offence of substantial possession of drugs would lead to heavy fines, while the use of stop-and-search would be vastly expanded, with Reform hailing it as a “proven deterrent to knife crime”.
Police leadership teams would be reviewed and where necessary replaced, with a “strong preference” for military veterans.
All diversity, equality and inclusion roles and regulations would be abolished in an attempt to stop what Mr Tice referred to in his spring conference speech as “two-tier policing”.
Police and Crime Commissioners would either be scrapped or reformed – “either they get the power to make a real change or they should go” – and degree-standard entry would be replaced with entrance exams, while officers would have to complete two years of probation.
Violent offenders would receive automatic life imprisonment as part of an urgent review.
The definition of hate crime would be changed in order to require “proper evidence”, pro-Palestinian marches banned using existing powers, 10,000 new detention places created and the budget of the National Crime Agency increased to tackle foreign gang crime.
Young offenders, meanwhile, would face high intensity training camps that would reopen to offer “basic education, training and values… [This model] is needed more than ever.”
Critical Race Theory attempts to teach all white children that they are intrinsically racist and sinful by virtue of their skin colour, and this racism can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated. Moreover, it tells white kids that if they deny their racism that is PROOF of their racism: as only a racist would deny they are racist
It is a vile, evil, degraded, and anti-white theology and it has as much place in our schools as outright white supremacism.
Look at it this way. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently superior and more noble? I imagine you don’t. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently morally inferior and sinful? Also no
That’s the position of Farage: teach neither of these things. What’s yours?
Ignoring the distorted way you are attempting to twist a viewpoint you disagree with, the very claim was that he supported speech he disagrees with but is banning it, which is clearly not free speech.
Plus of course:
Christianity attempts to teach all children that they are intrinsically sinful by virtue of original sin, and this sin can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated ...
Should teaching about Christianity be banned by your logic?
Slight footnote: Catholic Christianity teaches original sin. The Orthodox church doesn't, and the Church of England in its usual wonderful way is entirely ambiguous.
Though when I went to an Anglican school we were told all the time in services that we're all sinners.
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
No as that is sin by acts not original sin which is sin inherited merely by the act of birth, so Anglican position is not the same as the RC belief in original sin.
I think Leon is just saying inherited inferiority of whites being taught in schools will just lead to a further backlash to the hard nationalist white across western societies, leading to even more Farages, Trumps, Melonis, Wilders and Le Pens
The scenario outlined in that Bloomberg article seems quite plausible. If the Tories are left with 100-150 seats and Farage gets elected but Reform fail to break through in terms of seats, there will be a lot of pressure to let him join the party and run for the leadership.
It might lead to a load of Never-Farage Tories leaving the party, but would mean we'd be left with a consolidated right-wing movement.
No we would not as the very significant chunk of right wingers, like myself, @Big_G_NorthWales and many, many, many more on here alone who despise Farage would be left outside the party of the right.
You're more of a liberal internationalist, so maybe you would be more at home in a party of like-minded people.
I'm more of a liberal nationalist than a liberal internationalist.
And having disparate parties of "like minded people" is not united big tent parties like you claimed.
Liberal nationalism is pretty much Farage's philosophical position, so why do you despise him?
How the hell is Farage liberal !?
I despise him as he's a racist anti-immigration xenophobe.
The main way in which he's a liberal is that he believes in free speech. Defending what other people say even if you disagree with it.
Except he doesn't.
He's all for banning all kinds of free speech with which he disagrees e.g. his policies in this election include illiberally banning schools from teaching "gender ideology" or "critical race theory" - how is that liberal, to ban schools and universities from teaching things?gay rights or gender rights in schools (to quote directly @BartholomewRoberts previous thread)
“Zero tolerance” policing, which the party said has been a success in New York, would mean offenders received jail sentences for all violent crimes and the possession of a knife. A new offence of substantial possession of drugs would lead to heavy fines, while the use of stop-and-search would be vastly expanded, with Reform hailing it as a “proven deterrent to knife crime”.
Police leadership teams would be reviewed and where necessary replaced, with a “strong preference” for military veterans.
All diversity, equality and inclusion roles and regulations would be abolished in an attempt to stop what Mr Tice referred to in his spring conference speech as “two-tier policing”.
Police and Crime Commissioners would either be scrapped or reformed – “either they get the power to make a real change or they should go” – and degree-standard entry would be replaced with entrance exams, while officers would have to complete two years of probation.
Violent offenders would receive automatic life imprisonment as part of an urgent review.
The definition of hate crime would be changed in order to require “proper evidence”, pro-Palestinian marches banned using existing powers, 10,000 new detention places created and the budget of the National Crime Agency increased to tackle foreign gang crime.
Young offenders, meanwhile, would face high intensity training camps that would reopen to offer “basic education, training and values… [This model] is needed more than ever.”
Critical Race Theory attempts to teach all white children that they are intrinsically racist and sinful by virtue of their skin colour, and this racism can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated. Moreover, it tells white kids that if they deny their racism that is PROOF of their racism: as only a racist would deny they are racist
It is a vile, evil, degraded, and anti-white theology and it has as much place in our schools as outright white supremacism.
Look at it this way. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently superior and more noble? I imagine you don’t. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently morally inferior and sinful? Also no
That’s the position of Farage: teach neither of these things. What’s yours?
Ignoring the distorted way you are attempting to twist a viewpoint you disagree with, the very claim was that he supported speech he disagrees with but is banning it, which is clearly not free speech.
Plus of course:
Christianity attempts to teach all children that they are intrinsically sinful by virtue of original sin, and this sin can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated ...
Should teaching about Christianity be banned by your logic?
Slight footnote: Catholic Christianity teaches original sin. The Orthodox church doesn't, and the Church of England in its usual wonderful way is entirely ambiguous.
Though when I went to an Anglican school we were told all the time in services that we're all sinners.
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
No, there's a big difference between saying that we are all sinful and saying that only some of us are by virtue of some characteristic that we're born with.
'Angels of Victory memorial, which is being created in the forest near Moshchun, where some of the fiercest battles to defend Kyiv from Russian invaders took place in March 2022.'
Not to kill the mood, but Babi Yar would be worth visiting and one would likely need a strong drink afterwards. I believe it featured in a distinguished British novel.
Edit: beaten to it by the lad hisself!
Btw I am going anyway. It’s one of the reasons I’m coming to Kyiv. How could I not go there!?
I’ve just been writing about the Kishinev pogrom for the gazette. Quite astonishingly pivotal in world history
It would be a remarkable place for any of us to visit but for you? Extraordinary.
Are you going to put the tenner in a charity box there? I'd ask you to do likewise for me if I could think of an easy way to send it to you.
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
England are somewhere between 20 and 30 runs behind here.
The old truisms are, well, true. We won’t know until both sides bat.
They will be very hard pushed to match what Australia managed in that power play. They are clawing it back a bit but they are well behind at the moment in my view.
Not much sign of crossover from the latest We Think poll conducted yesterday and Thursday which still has the Tories on 20% ahead of Reform on 15% even if Labour well ahead overall on 45%.
Reform also lack the geographic concentration their Canadian counterparts had in 1993 in western Canada which enabled them to pick up lots of seats there.
Most voters in the blue wall and elsewhere know that public services are shot to pieces and tax cuts are not affordable or appropriate at this point imo.
Most voters in the blue wall who voted Tory last time have expensive houses they want to keep in the family and children, often nearby who want to inherit them without a big IHT bill. Some will also use private schools and private health rather than public services (though of course since 2019 the Tories have put vast sums into the NHS too). They might even win over a few 2019 LDs too who voted for Cameron and May with big houses now Brexit is less of an issue and Boris is gone
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
If that Tory -> Reform swing is repeated in the polls which had them close together than we'll get the crossover narrative this weekend.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
But the Reformulation Tax was designed to be broadly revenue neutral - the idea was to encourage fast food restaurants to change their recipes to reduce sugar and salt content where possible.
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
But the Reformulation Tax was designed to be broadly revenue neutral - the idea was to encourage fast food restaurants to change their recipes to reduce sugar and salt content where possible.
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
In case anyone missed this a few minutes with a Reform candidate for Horsham with one or two rather er....old fashioned views!! (I understand he was later replaced)
Have we really reached the stage where polling with the Tories on 89 seats is greeted by their biggest cheerleader with "we'll take that"? Apparently so.
Interesting to see how some PBers leapt to conclusion, that the assailant who attacked the Danish PM very recently, has been sentenced to just 12 day incarceration. Apparently without trial or any investigation as to motive or anything else.
Yeah, right. Or rather, wrong. Obviously!
Because that’s what the Reuters report said in its headline
“Man who attacked Danish PM sentenced to 12 days in custody”
Indeed it still says that after being updated. Very misleading
The English speaking media, particularly that in the U.K., often don’t understand the detail of legal procedure in their own jurisdictions.
I find this is true. Because of american tv shows and reporting on things like the Trump trials my legal knowledge is full of terms and principles that are american, and basic details of our own legal system are unknown to me.
Ironically the terminology of the American court system is that of the 17th and 18th century English system but which the latter has gradually discarded over the years. Grand juries were still sitting in England and Wales until the 1930s, the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours was only abolished here in the 1970s, and we had Plaintiffs instead of Claimants until 1999. A lot of the old terminology and procedure was permanently baked into the US system by the Constitution so they’ve kept it.
England are somewhere between 20 and 30 runs behind here.
The old truisms are, well, true. We won’t know until both sides bat.
They will be very hard pushed to match what Australia managed in that power play. They are clawing it back a bit but they are well behind at the moment in my view.
It’s not looking great, but a few quick wickets and they might push them below 200.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
But the Reformulation Tax was designed to be broadly revenue neutral - the idea was to encourage fast food restaurants to change their recipes to reduce sugar and salt content where possible.
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
If that Tory -> Reform swing is repeated in the polls which had them close together than we'll get the crossover narrative this weekend.
And if I have understood the methodologies correctly (please correct me if wrong someone) this one will be making assumptions about “Tory” don’t knows that may now be quite flawed.
Have we really reached the stage where polling with the Tories on 89 seats is greeted by their biggest cheerleader with "we'll take that"? Apparently so.
Yes but bear in mind there are still over three weeks to go, plenty of time for the Tories to look aback wistfully at when they thought they might get nearly 90 seats.
Interesting to see how some PBers leapt to conclusion, that the assailant who attacked the Danish PM very recently, has been sentenced to just 12 day incarceration. Apparently without trial or any investigation as to motive or anything else.
Yeah, right. Or rather, wrong. Obviously!
Because that’s what the Reuters report said in its headline
“Man who attacked Danish PM sentenced to 12 days in custody”
Indeed it still says that after being updated. Very misleading
The English speaking media, particularly that in the U.K., often don’t understand the detail of legal procedure in their own jurisdictions.
I find this is true. Because of american tv shows and reporting on things like the Trump trials my legal knowledge is full of terms and principles that are american, and basic details of our own legal system are unknown to me.
Ironically the terminology of the American court system is that of the 17th and 18th century English system but which the latter has gradually discarded over the years. Grand juries were still sitting in England and Wales until the 1930s, the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours was only abolished here in the 1970s, and we had Plaintiffs instead of Claimants until 1999. A lot of the old terminology and procedure was permanently baked into the US system by the Constitution so they’ve kept it.
What about the banging of the gavel? Did we ever have that here?
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
If that Tory -> Reform swing is repeated in the polls which had them close together than we'll get the crossover narrative this weekend.
That swing is from pre Farage, same as the other pollsters showed this week, its the first post Clacton Savanta poll
Via @Savanta_UK , 5-7 Jun. Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
Sunak would take that I expect, Tories over double the level of Reform despite his disastrous week (apart from the debate) and also ahead of the LDs on seats too.
That’s much closer to actual local election and by-election results. No way Reform are up at 17-18%. 8.5% in Brexiteer nursing home Torquay just last week.
Green continue their slow journey down to the 2-3% norm.
LLG 59%, RefCon 37%. Relatively high RefCon score thanks to rounding and SNP.
It is. But I wish I'd come of age before them, and had to learn how to talk to strangers to get out of problematic situations. I feel I'm very soft on that front.
You could always leave your smartphone in your hotel room on purpose. Give it a practice
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
But the Reformulation Tax was designed to be broadly revenue neutral - the idea was to encourage fast food restaurants to change their recipes to reduce sugar and salt content where possible.
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
Not much sign of crossover from the latest We Think poll conducted yesterday and Thursday which still has the Tories on 20% ahead of Reform on 15% even if Labour well ahead overall on 45%.
Reform also lack the geographic concentration their Canadian counterparts had in 1993 in western Canada which enabled them to pick up lots of seats there.
Most voters in the blue wall and elsewhere know that public services are shot to pieces and tax cuts are not affordable or appropriate at this point imo.
Most voters in the blue wall who voted Tory last time have expensive houses they want to keep in the family and children, often nearby who want to inherit them without a big IHT bill. Some will also use private schools and private health rather than public services (though of course since 2019 the Tories have put vast sums into the NHS too). They might even win over a few 2019 LDs too who voted for Cameron and May with big houses now Brexit is less of an issue and Boris is gone
The only card the Tories have left is to bribe rich elderly homeowners as much as possible and hope that large numbers of them don't sit on their hands or flounce to Reform. We've already had guarantees on property taxation and pension income, it'd be remarkable if they didn't pledge to abolish inheritance tax as well.
The scenario outlined in that Bloomberg article seems quite plausible. If the Tories are left with 100-150 seats and Farage gets elected but Reform fail to break through in terms of seats, there will be a lot of pressure to let him join the party and run for the leadership.
It might lead to a load of Never-Farage Tories leaving the party, but would mean we'd be left with a consolidated right-wing movement.
No we would not as the very significant chunk of right wingers, like myself, @Big_G_NorthWales and many, many, many more on here alone who despise Farage would be left outside the party of the right.
You're more of a liberal internationalist, so maybe you would be more at home in a party of like-minded people.
I'm more of a liberal nationalist than a liberal internationalist.
And having disparate parties of "like minded people" is not united big tent parties like you claimed.
Liberal nationalism is pretty much Farage's philosophical position, so why do you despise him?
How the hell is Farage liberal !?
I despise him as he's a racist anti-immigration xenophobe.
The main way in which he's a liberal is that he believes in free speech. Defending what other people say even if you disagree with it.
Except he doesn't.
He's all for banning all kinds of free speech with which he disagrees e.g. his policies in this election include illiberally banning schools from teaching "gender ideology" or "critical race theory" - how is that liberal, to ban schools and universities from teaching things?gay rights or gender rights in schools (to quote directly @BartholomewRoberts previous thread)
“Zero tolerance” policing, which the party said has been a success in New York, would mean offenders received jail sentences for all violent crimes and the possession of a knife. A new offence of substantial possession of drugs would lead to heavy fines, while the use of stop-and-search would be vastly expanded, with Reform hailing it as a “proven deterrent to knife crime”.
Police leadership teams would be reviewed and where necessary replaced, with a “strong preference” for military veterans.
All diversity, equality and inclusion roles and regulations would be abolished in an attempt to stop what Mr Tice referred to in his spring conference speech as “two-tier policing”.
Police and Crime Commissioners would either be scrapped or reformed – “either they get the power to make a real change or they should go” – and degree-standard entry would be replaced with entrance exams, while officers would have to complete two years of probation.
Violent offenders would receive automatic life imprisonment as part of an urgent review.
The definition of hate crime would be changed in order to require “proper evidence”, pro-Palestinian marches banned using existing powers, 10,000 new detention places created and the budget of the National Crime Agency increased to tackle foreign gang crime.
Young offenders, meanwhile, would face high intensity training camps that would reopen to offer “basic education, training and values… [This model] is needed more than ever.”
Critical Race Theory attempts to teach all white children that they are intrinsically racist and sinful by virtue of their skin colour, and this racism can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated. Moreover, it tells white kids that if they deny their racism that is PROOF of their racism: as only a racist would deny they are racist
It is a vile, evil, degraded, and anti-white theology and it has as much place in our schools as outright white supremacism.
Look at it this way. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently superior and more noble? I imagine you don’t. Do you want your kids to be taught whites are inherently morally inferior and sinful? Also no
That’s the position of Farage: teach neither of these things. What’s yours?
Ignoring the distorted way you are attempting to twist a viewpoint you disagree with, the very claim was that he supported speech he disagrees with but is banning it, which is clearly not free speech.
Plus of course:
Christianity attempts to teach all children that they are intrinsically sinful by virtue of original sin, and this sin can never be extirpated, merely ameliorated ...
Should teaching about Christianity be banned by your logic?
Slight footnote: Catholic Christianity teaches original sin. The Orthodox church doesn't, and the Church of England in its usual wonderful way is entirely ambiguous.
Though when I went to an Anglican school we were told all the time in services that we're all sinners.
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
No as that is sin by acts not original sin which is sin inherited merely by the act of birth, so Anglican position is not the same as the RC belief in original sin.
I think Leon is just saying inherited inferiority of whites being taught in schools will just lead to a further backlash to the hard nationalist white across western societies, leading to even more Farages, Trumps, Melonis, Wilders and Le Pens
That’s not what CRT is but never mind. I don’t agree with CRT so I’m loath to spend much time defending it. But it most certainly isn’t what Leon describes it to be. But that’s all I’m saying on the subject. It’s a pointless distraction.
Interesting to see how some PBers leapt to conclusion, that the assailant who attacked the Danish PM very recently, has been sentenced to just 12 day incarceration. Apparently without trial or any investigation as to motive or anything else.
Yeah, right. Or rather, wrong. Obviously!
Because that’s what the Reuters report said in its headline
“Man who attacked Danish PM sentenced to 12 days in custody”
Indeed it still says that after being updated. Very misleading
The English speaking media, particularly that in the U.K., often don’t understand the detail of legal procedure in their own jurisdictions.
I find this is true. Because of american tv shows and reporting on things like the Trump trials my legal knowledge is full of terms and principles that are american, and basic details of our own legal system are unknown to me.
Ironically the terminology of the American court system is that of the 17th and 18th century English system but which the latter has gradually discarded over the years. Grand juries were still sitting in England and Wales until the 1930s, the distinction between felonies and misdemeanours was only abolished here in the 1970s, and we had Plaintiffs instead of Claimants until 1999. A lot of the old terminology and procedure was permanently baked into the US system by the Constitution so they’ve kept it.
What about the banging of the gavel? Did we ever have that here?
Have we really reached the stage where polling with the Tories on 89 seats is greeted by their biggest cheerleader with "we'll take that"? Apparently so.
I wouldn’t describe HYUFD as the Tories biggest cheerleader. He’s avowedly partisan, but in far less of an “I know best” way than most.
One of the most objective and insightful partisan commentators on here, up there with Nick Palmer when he’s not talking up Labour prospects in Lib Dem targets.
There is not a single voter in the country who needs a journalist to tell them this. There is not a single poster or lurker on PB who needed you to tell us this, so why did you post it?
What do we think was the strategy? All built around the 2K Lie? Which Penny persisted with to ridicule and disbelief.
Once something like that falls apart so quickly, so cuts through not as a Labour tax rise but as a lie, each mention, billboard and advert is actually hurting the Conservative vote.
Calling a Snappy Lec without a strong campaign ready, without a strong strategy ready, is this the nub of what’s gone wrong - to the disbelief of Tory members and MPs?
Why does anyone post any links on here? A: to share news, opinion, information, gossip, jokes...
I cannot imagine why you are so sore about Battery posting this?
Because Moon is annoyed their "actually the Tories are doing great" rubbish has failed.
She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem, then she had a Damascene conversion to being a Tory and then spent the last two weeks telling us Rishi is actually good and the public will produce a Tory victory.
Her judgement is a joke and she's been found out. That's why she's going off on one.
“She spent months pretending to be Labour, then Lib Dem”
Dear Horse Bat. Stop lying about my voting record. This ain’t a game. This is serious.
I’ve never said I’ve voted Labour. I said I have voted Libdem, and for a man with a bin on his head. All that we can put down to rebellious youthfulness. I’ve only ever posted that I will never in my life vote Labour.
It’s perfectly okay for dissatisfied Tories to vote Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are very much centre right. Con, Ref, Libdem are right of centre parties. All the left agree on is the individual and the state, the parties of the right understand it’s families and neighbourhoods, and protecting our shared cultural inheritances that is the foundation of society, and not the state.
The right cuts down Labours bulbous state and ruinous state spending, and by doing so boosts families, household incomes, aspiration, and individual freedom.
Conservatism exists not to stop progress, nor keep everything the same, but in acknowledgement natures way is everything forever changes, and we need to conserve what is of value and importance. You build a wall to keep the wild things out. Within the wall you build a path to get you from A to B safely in the dark or inclement weather. Where your way leads across the stream, you build a bridge. If you now do nothing to conserve the path and the wall and the bridge, nature will take them from you. It will change your world and take everything you value from you. Those things you want your children to learn in the right way, whilst on your knee? they will learn it first elsewhere, in the wrong way. The world always needs Conservative thinking and action. If we don’t get Conservatives back in government soon, the country will fall apart.
None of this is game playing, Horse Bat, like you refer to it with your child like level of political understanding.
"ChatGPT, write some drivel about politics"
Not just you customary ungentlemanly rudeness stands out, but your complete inability to discuss the real politics behind all this, makes it oh so clear you don’t actually understand the philosophical make up of British Politics, do you?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
I can see why the Tories are against whoppers being taxed to be fair.
It’s a Wedge issue… hands off our our lightly spiced wedgies!
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
Er. Wasn't the Junk Food Tax / Reformulation Tax part of the National Food Strategy that was commission by... er, Michael Gove in 2019?
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
We are over taxed as it is, last thing we need is Labours hated Pizza Tax.
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
But the Reformulation Tax was designed to be broadly revenue neutral - the idea was to encourage fast food restaurants to change their recipes to reduce sugar and salt content where possible.
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
I understand that the Lib Dems are targetting a selcted number of constituencies.
Is there any evidence on the ground that this is creating a differential voting impact compared with comparable constituencies?
Don't know, Nicky, but they do not appear to be short of resources in Tewkesbury, which is 88th on their target list.
It may help that it neighbours Cheltenham, which the LDs will win, and Cotswold South which they might do. They did well in the locals, so it's maybe more reachable than you might think, but it is still a 20k majority.
Suella as leader, Liz as Shadow Chancellor. Or Treasury spokesperson, if the Lib Dems pass them on seats. And assuming both of them manage to get returned, of course.
Comments
Combine this with Working Towards The Leader (imagine what Hitler would want and do that) and you have competitive escalation.
So the massacres and butchery got worse and worse.
Wansee was about formalising and taking control of the murder. As a political power move by Himmler and Heydrich. And making sure everyone understood they were all part of it.
Like I said this morning, do you ever get anything correct on pb.com?
Which should mean Anglicanism too is banned via @Leon logic.
Democracy Club (see link) has them standing in 610 - implying they are not standing in 22 GB seats (inc Chorley).
Can anyone list all 22?
https://democracyclub.org.uk/blog/2024/06/08/2024-uk-general-election-candidate-summary/
Embarrassing
Or has he changed his mind about that as well as everything else?
Labours tax on our junk food meals and take away deliveries is an absolute disgrace, by the way. Do you defend Labours tax on our whoppers, Horse Bat? Or can you at least condemn the worst Labour tax grab of them all?
Wood has just matched Jacks with 22 runs in an over. England are pretty much out of this already.
First, thanks to @rcs1000 and @TSE for publishing my latest ramblings on matters close to home (well homes past in my case) and thanks to everyone for the comments and the betting suggestions.
I've used local election results, past GE results and my local knowledge to try and discern what might happen in these 21 crucial constituencies in the outer London suburbs on July 4th.
My guesttimate for London is Labour 61, Conservative 9 and Liberal Democrat 5.
The Conservative survivors could be: Harrow East, Ruislip Northwood & Pinner, Bromley & Biggin Hill, Old Bexley & Sidcup, Orpington, Croydon East, Croydon South, Hornchurch & Upminster and Romford.
Some of these will be expected - Croydon East is the one which may surprise. For those who don't know Croydon, it used to be the case the north of the Borough voted strongly Labour and the south strongly Conservative. There were a few battleground areas - Addiscombe, Waddon, Woodside, Selhurst and Fairfield which was where the Conservative and Labour parties fought.
New Addington, a council estate first planned as a Garden Village in the mid-30s but finished in the late 40s and 50s, was a Labour heartland of council houses - the Labour leader of the council, Valerie Shawcross, came from the estate in the 90s. However, the coming of the Croydon Tramlink and the fact properties were much cheaper than in central Croydon, along with the sale of the council properties, has changed the political composition.
New Addington has trended Conservative in recent years and at the 2022 the Conservatives won both the Wards. That, along with the fact Selsdon (traditionally Tory) and Shirley (ditto) are in the new Croydon East makes me think this area may be much tougher for Labour and the 10/1 on the Conservatives to win the seat (their candidate is a local councillor) looks a great bet.
Someone earlier pointed out laying Labour in Croydon South might be a good idea - I wouldn't disagree.
It’s going to make the tories’ return that much harder and take that much longer.
We won’t pay the burger tax, we won’t pay the burger tax. Ala la laa
News of yet another resignation from the ruling Labour group on the Council - two by elections scheduled for July 4th, another for the 18th and possibly a second on that day as well.
The mob that are not going to have to govern (Reform) can always out-populist a party that has to pick up the pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usV9RhxZhVs
Reform also lack the geographic concentration their Canadian counterparts had in 1993 in western Canada which enabled them to pick up lots of seats there.
I agree with those suggesting bigger tax cuts in the manifesto, especially on inheritance tax to try and save much of the bluewall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election
Yes, Truss dumped it and Sunak's since turned it into a culture war talking point. And now it's just another example of the Tory 2024 election campaign rubbishing everything they were elected on in 2019. I'm not sure it's going to end very well for them...
VAT on to Eat out, under Labour.
(stop sniggering at the back, PB)
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2024/06/canada-pre-qualifying-2024.html
I think Leon is just saying inherited inferiority of whites being taught in schools will just lead to a further backlash to the hard nationalist white across western societies, leading to even more Farages, Trumps, Melonis, Wilders and Le Pens
🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday
@Telegraph
📈20pt Labour lead - highest since Jan
🌹Lab 46 (+4)
🌳Con 26 (-2)
➡️Reform 11 (+2)
🔶LD 10 (+1)
🌍Green 3 (-1)
🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
⬜️Other 3 (-2)
2,095 UK adults, 5-7 June
(chg 31 May-2 June)
CON: 26% (-2)
RFM: 11% (+2)
LDM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 3% (-1)
SNP: 2% (-1)
Via @Savanta_UK, 5-7 Jun.
Changes w/ 31 May - 2 Jun.
📈20pt Labour lead - highest since Jan
🌹Lab 46 (+4)
🌳Con 26 (-2)
➡️Reform 11 (+2)
🔶LD 10 (+1)
🌍Green 3 (-1)
🎗️SNP 2 (-1)
⬜️Other 3 (-2)
2,095 UK adults, 5-7 June
(chg 31 May-2 June)
https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1799494098526822476
Are you going to put the tenner in a charity box there? I'd ask you to do likewise for me if I could think of an easy way to send it to you.
Also Survation, and a couple of others.
Electoral Calculus gives 490 Labour seats, 89 Tory seats, 35 LD seats, 13 SNP, 1 Green and 0 for Reform on the new Savanta
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=26&LAB=46&LIB=10&Reform=11&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
It wasn't designed to raise money, although it would very probably have reduced NHS costs in the long term.
The NFS recommendations are worth a read - it's unfortunate that they got caught up in the Tory infighting. I suppose you can count it as another of those Gove "great idea, but no follow through" episodes.
https://www.nationalfoodstrategy.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/National-Food-Strategy-Recommendations-in-Full.pdf
Apparently so.
Did we ever have that here?
Green continue their slow journey down to the 2-3% norm.
LLG 59%, RefCon 37%. Relatively high RefCon score thanks to rounding and SNP.
https://x.com/Dannythefink/status/1799471385187852646
One of the most objective and insightful partisan commentators on here, up there with Nick Palmer when he’s not talking up Labour prospects in Lib Dem targets.
It may help that it neighbours Cheltenham, which the LDs will win, and Cotswold South which they might do. They did well in the locals, so it's maybe more reachable than you might think, but it is still a 20k majority.
If it does go, they are having a very good night.
Oh, wait…
reputation, in this election.
Why do they think Reform are doing so much better, than others ? Is that because of their treatment of "Don't Knows" who lean Tory ?