One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

Sean_F said:

DM_Andy said:

wooliedyed said:

MikeL said:

Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

Corbyn
Abbott
Shaheen
Russell-Moyle
Begum

Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

Corbyn and Abbott wouldn't join Galloway imo (he has pledged to support them as indies though), Begum, Shaheen possibly, Brussels Boiled not sure

Why would LRM join up with George "I don't want my children to be taught that gay relationships are normal" Galloway?

Queers for Palestine.

You would need to have a heart of stone not to laugh at LRM getting the boot. I recall some his past rants which were very nasty.

Sean_F said:

Credit where it’s due. Sacking LRM is excellent, one of the nastiest of MP’s.

But he hasn't been sacked.

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

It is, but Honiton was taken by the LDs in a by-election and East Devon had a strong independent showing so it's not illogical to campaign there.

So we have the Tories only one step away from announcing they are bringing back the death penalty, Labour arguing among themselves over Diane Abbott while unwilling to propose basically anything different to the Tories (pre GE plans) and Ed Davey acting like a clown from Cirque du Soleil....and a former PM going all Trump deep state on fringe podcasts.

Aren't we spoiled for choices.

CarlottaVance said:

Sean_F said:

Credit where it’s due. Sacking LRM is excellent, one of the nastiest of MP’s.

I entirely agree that he’s a nasty MP who I disagree with in the strongest possible terms - but at this stage sacking him was up to the voters of Kemptown.

This stinks to high heaven.

No it wasn't up to the voters of Kemptown as it is up to the Labour Party who gets selected as one of their candidates.

They've left it very late to get involved and prevent him, and that is suspicious and may well stink to high heaven, but the democracy of it does not factor into it. It stinks or not regardless of that.

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

It's not even a core vote strategy, it's a "tough transparent bit around the pips" vote strategy. I think it's called the endocarp.

It's certainly set to be the endosunak.

On the other hand, it's another indication that the public polls agree with whatever data the parties are collecting.

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy

What’s all this Natty Serves bollocks ?

DM_Andy said:

FFS, Nigel Farage and Piers Morgan on the same Question Time panel?

There are times for the pantomime bollocks, now is not it. Why do we care what either think, they aren't standing at the GE, and host small tv shows.

ping said:

DavidL said:

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.

She was already mental long before she became PM

And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.

I'm actually slightly less catastrophic about the tories' medium-to-long-term survival prospects, than I was a few months ago.

I was somewhat swimming against consensus, back then. I sense I'm swimming against consensus again, now, but this time the other way.

Don't get me wrong, I think the betting markets are broadly right and the tories are in for a shellacking. It might even be worth seeking tory seats on the spreads and betting on the underestimated possibility of them falling off the ftpt cliff. Still an unlikely prospect, but betting value, nonetheless.

But medium-to-long-term? I recon the party decides, this next time. The survival instinct will kick in. It'll survive and recover. The powerbrokers understand the existential threat. 2022 was a disaster that almost destroyed them.

Almost.

The country deserves a competent opposition Conservative Party, ready to take power if Labour fuck up.

And that's what we're going to get.

Look at the local elections. The Tories are not going to oblivion any time soon.

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy

What’s all this Natty Serves bollocks ?

The kids is calling it Natty Serves innit bruv

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Quite. And a racist conspiracy theory for double points.

DM_Andy said:

Roger said:

They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.

Note that in early 1990s, was told in Dublin by a working-class Catholic, originally from Northern Ireland, that the Rev. Dr. Ian Paisley had a very good personal (if not political) reputation among working-class Catholics in North Belfast. Due to his direct assistance to Catholic families in need of assistance.

Don't have details, but have heard the same story from other source. And given the forceful nature (to put it mildly) of Paisley the Elder's powerful personality, my guess is that when he set out to assist somebody, for whatever reason - they sure enough got assisted.

Perhaps something similar re: Corbyn & Abbot re: ultra-orthodox Jewish communities in their bailiwicks?

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy

What’s all this Natty Serves bollocks ?

The kids is calling it Natty Serves innit bruv

word

Luckyguy1983 said:

theProle said:

I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.

An excellent post, and one that @BartholomewRoberts should read carefully before claiming to be a supporter both of the current direction of travel in the energy market and of free market principles.

I don't even support Net Zero, but the scenario that @Pagan2 is highly unlikely to be true, because diesel generators come with a massive bunch of compromises.

Firstly, does the generator support the peak load? It's easy to get one that will support your average electricity usage (and that's how people calculate things). But your average load might well be 30% of your maximum load. So to get it working, you may need to spend a lot, lot more than you thought on a generator.

Secondly, at a basic efficiency level, diesel generators are - what - c. 35% efficient. But when under load, that can easily drop to 25%. And then there's maintenance. There's regular thermal expansion and contraction, and there's going to be a lot of wear and tear.

Thirdly, there's hassle. You need to get the diesel to you, and you need to store it. And that is going to cost you both time and money.

If you assume that your only costs are fuel, and that your generator runs at optimal efficiency all the time, you *might* get to £5k/annual saving. But even that is slightly bullshit, because domestic electricity prices lag wholesale ones, while the cost of diesel moves very quickly in line with the world market. And that's before capital cost and maintenance. And you don't even get hot water as a byproduct.

Anyone who thinks they are going to save money by going off grid with a diesel generator is incapable of basic mathematics.

Tom Kerridge is an absolute lad. If he's up for Labour so am I

Highly amused that people have been portraying Starmer as weak, and suddenly he's booting out the Corbynites.

Almost like he wants to get elected, and doesn't want to be saddled with a load of absolute maniacs saying/doing stupid shit.

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Tom Kerridge is an absolute lad. If he's up for Labour so am I

Lol

MJW said:

RochdalePioneers said:

LostPassword said:

Andy_JS said:

We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

"@patrickkmaguire
EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

Has any reason been given?

Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.

If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.

I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?

Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.

So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.

Because they don't agree on an awful lot? One reason Corbynism was called a 'cult' was that a lot of it was centred on one man and his supposed benevolence. That brought together people who didn't actually agree on a lot but liked the idea of a cuddly socialist who told them what they wanted to hear.

It was a rare phenomenon in decades of infighting. Contained its own contradictions that brought its own downfall, but still.

Now you find that Galloway's creeps don't like the spotty SOAS types who can recite every argument between Marxists in deliberately impenetrable language. Who in turn look down on the rainbow rhythms 'inclusivity' gang and those who are happy in The Greens. Who themselves think those who are just on the left of Labour but quite like party structures and are more concerned about issue x or y than tearing it all down are sellouts. That's before we get to different communities with separate priorities.

They all liked the idea of a Corbyn government, seeing in it what they wanted to see. Damned if they can agree on what comes next without that. Even the man himself would struggle to hold together the 'movement' now its marginalised.

Why don't they form their own party is the 1994 question. That was the year a guy took over as Labour leader who openly praised Thatcher. You would have thought that could have been taken as a signal by the left, but it wasn't.

It's not only because what remains of the Labour left doesn't fancy life in the 57 varieties-ism that plagues the left outside of Labour. It's also because they haven't got the energy to do anything new, having been geared up for the boring work of serving as the loyal "opposition" within Labour and the trade unions for as long as anyone can remember. (In fact a similar thing could be said about the left outside of Labour, but that's another topic.)

One could of course also ask the same question of Labour itself, namely why on Earth don't they fight the Tories. They don't fight the Tories when the Tories are in office, and they don't try to erode the strength of what nourishes the Tory part of society when Labour are in office either. It's easy to mock people who ask that question, but look where we are now, and look at what has never effectively been challenged in this country - the City, Oxford and Cambridge universities, the top private schools[*], NATO, the monarchy, the officer caste, Big Pharma, etc. etc. Wilson and Callaghan and Blair and Brown don't exactly seem to have done much to dent the power of the natural party of government.

*VAT would hardly hurt them. Meanwhile, +1 Dura_Ace for calling them bourgeois turd factories. Nailed them in three words.

Benpointer said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Tom Kerridge is an absolute lad. If he's up for Labour so am I

You were anyway to be fair.

I am indeed but I'll be happy to vote Tory again when they decide to be less insane.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Tom Kerridge is an absolute lad. If he's up for Labour so am I

He's a Man Utd supporter. He is therefore of no value to anybody

Labour history is cyclical - hours before a selection vote in Ilford South in 2019, moderate stalwart Jas Athwal was suspended over last-minute allegations which were similarly unspecified and (in his instance) later found to be groundless.

There will be fury from the left over Russell-Moyle but as Athwall, Tom Watson, Alistair Campbell attest, every Labour leadership produces variations on the same theme.

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1795874827380687081

@Savanta_UK

Our first poll of the campaign for our GE partners
@Telegraph
includes questions to the public on what tasks they'd trust Sunak & Starmer with:

🛞Change a tire: 43% Starmer, just 17% Sunak
🦘Win I'm a celeb: 32% Starmer, 21% Sunak
🍺Buy the first round: 41% Starmer, 25% Sunak

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.

Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board

Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?

Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.

As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.

Exactly so, and it's not even 100 small business leaders. It's like, um, 72 of them some of which aren't even in business anymore and are simply down as "former" leaders.

It's giving out the opposite message on Labour and business that they'd like it to, precisely because of what it doesn’t say.

wooliedyed said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Tom Kerridge is an absolute lad. If he's up for Labour so am I

He's a Man Utd supporter. He is therefore of no value to anybody

If Tom Kerridge is a Man Utd supporter and he's up for Labour, so am I.

Benpointer said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy

What’s all this Natty Serves bollocks ?

The kids is calling it Natty Serves innit bruv

I very much doubt that.

They is bruv, right through to the genny lec all yous hear is Natty Serves for all

Scott_xP said:

@Savanta_UK

Our first poll of the campaign for our GE partners
@Telegraph
includes questions to the public on what tasks they'd trust Sunak & Starmer with:

🛞Change a tire: 43% Starmer, just 17% Sunak
🦘Win I'm a celeb: 32% Starmer, 21% Sunak
🍺Buy the first round: 41% Starmer, 25% Sunak

Jesus. Really?

I'd pick neither.

DM_Andy said:

FFS, Nigel Farage and Piers Morgan on the same Question Time panel?

I never watch it anyway but if I did…..

Scott_xP said:

@Savanta_UK

Our first poll of the campaign for our GE partners
@Telegraph
includes questions to the public on what tasks they'd trust Sunak & Starmer with:

🛞Change a tire: 43% Starmer, just 17% Sunak
🦘Win I'm a celeb: 32% Starmer, 21% Sunak
🍺Buy the first round: 41% Starmer, 25% Sunak

A lawyer buying the first round? Nah

Scott_xP said:

@Savanta_UK

Our first poll of the campaign for our GE partners
@Telegraph
includes questions to the public on what tasks they'd trust Sunak & Starmer with:

🛞Change a tire: 43% Starmer, just 17% Sunak
🦘Win I'm a celeb: 32% Starmer, 21% Sunak
🍺Buy the first round: 41% Starmer, 25% Sunak

I like how perception of Sunak’s Croesus like wealth informs the slightly better buy the first round score.

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Howls of derision/outrage/whatever heard today on PB, are clearly demonstrating that . . .

Keir fear is REALLY rampant here!

For the 2-cents or less it's worth, my own take is that Starmer GAINS by pumping as much bilge off his barge as possible. Both by lightening Labour's boat AND by demonstrating that he's tough enough to do it.

What a fictional PM used to call, "giving 'em a bit of stick". Which is a quality that voters appreciate, at least in moderation. And Keir Starmer is doing it moderately, at least in one way anyway.

Agreed. The very people on PB shedding crocodile tears for how poor Jeremy and Diane have been treated are exactly the same people who would claiming that Labour was anti-semitic and the left were waiting to pounce if they were still standing for the Labour Party.

Many of the voters that are planning to switch to Labour this time will be delighted to see Corbyn and Abbott kicked into touch. The Corbynite left and Hamas sympathisers were always gone to piss and moan when Labour did what it had to do to win a GE.

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?

But the term is not confined to such people. As our probably new Russian friend just mentioned, it was also thrown at anyone who suggested that covid might have been created in a lab.

It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.

Leon said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

@bondegezou and maybe @turbotubbs (tho the latter at least admits doubts)

Otherwise no. No one on earth now believes it came from the market. That includes the US government (democrats as well as republicans) who are now firmly gunning for Ecohealth and Peter Daszak who likely made the virus in the Wuhan lab with US money

Whaaaaaat? It didn't come from bat soup???? Crazy.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Does anyone remember when Russel-Moyle stole the Mace lol

Of course, it seems like about 5 minutes ago.

I have to say I am a bit baffled that PB seems to have concluded Dianne Abbott will cost Labour votes. She was very unpopular around these parts and was cited as a reason to not vote Labour in 2019 by several people.

Does anyone know when we will find out if the Sun or Times are backing Labour?

EPG said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.

It’s just wearyingly ridiculous

THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES

What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????

Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses

And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now

If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”

kle4 said:

There are obviously ranges of conspiracy theories. People can be a too free to call any unpopular opinion a conspiracy theory for example. But is there another useful phrase to use for those cases where people clearly do ignore facts or invent details in some complex and implausible scenario, often in support of particular political views or absurdity, like that the moon is a megastructure?

The Covid example is a good case in point - with lots of theories flying around and no one really with a firm idea at that time whether the lab leak theory was correct or not it wasn't outrageous for people to raise that idea depending on the detail of what was proposed. But 5G is about mind control or whatever?

It's often the certainty that highlights a conspiracy theorist. They *know* what happened, because they are awesome and can see truths few others can. There can be no other alternatives; their theory is correct.

When it comes to things like lab leak, I'm perfectly open to the idea. However, it has not been proven, and there are other alternatives that al ad so make sense. But when someone settles on one possibility, at the exclusion of all the other possibilities, then they can become a conspiracy theorist b/s merchant.

My favourite conspiracy theory was the person who claimed that the Argentinians sunk a RN carrier during the Falklands war. He did at least argue with his opponents, and took on board some of the facts they presented. This led him to make the claim that the USA built another Invincible-class carrier in secret to replace the one the Argentinians had sunk...

All because the Argentinian Junta needed a good news story, whether truthful or not.

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?

But the term is not confined to such people. As our probably new Russian friend just mentioned, it was also thrown at anyone who suggested that covid might have been created in a lab.

It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.

I don't know that it's got quite the right connotations, but OK, I'll give "conspiracy junkie" a go.

Liz Truss is rapidly becoming a conspiracy junkie.

I don’t agree, but I applaud and I'm glad to see the term being used at least once.

Casino_Royale said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

He's doing the Hovis advert.
https://youtu.be/6Mq59ykPnAE?t=33

It's also a fairly traditional image with young laydees from art house films.

It's in Brecon and Radnorshire constituency which is a top 30 LD target. Lab, Green are nowhere.

He's doing the same quirky things to get attention.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Does anyone know when we will find out if the Sun or Times are backing Labour?

Ironically, the only right-wing / centre-right paper who sided with Sunak, in the Sunak vs Truss battle, will almost certainly endorse Starmer this time round.

Talking of which, the Times' How to win an election show/podcast/YouTube is a great listen!

Leon said:

EPG said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.

It’s just wearyingly ridiculous

THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES

What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????

Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses

And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now

If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”

Was the bat soup on the menu in the lab canteen?

kle4 said:

Scott_xP said:

@benrileysmith

Our latest poll asked voters whether Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer was best placed to manage 13 different policy areas? Tax, NHS, crime etc. Starmer won on all 13.

https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1795907687655276871

Ouch. Rishi closest on Economy and Defence, not unexpectedly, but still.

Interesting.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Does anyone know when we will find out if the Sun or Times are backing Labour?

When Murdoch has received the relevant assurances

Leon said:

EPG said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.

It’s just wearyingly ridiculous

THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES

What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????

Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses

And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now

If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”

I can't believe that anyone wants to seriously debate this anymore. The probabilities and circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming it reaches the realms of obvious.

The much more difficult questions are what are the implications of such actions by China? Are we confident that they have learned their lesson and will not play such games again? And can we ever forgive them for the millions of dead?

None of these questions have easy answers. Avoidance of them is the only possible justification for pretending that there is a doubt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-57268111 "The institute is a 40-minute drive from the Huanan wet market where the first cluster of infections emerged."

Qiu et al. (2019), https://mednexus.org/doi/10.1016/j.bsheal.2019.12.004 : "Zhejiang Province in China has taken the initiative to establish a comprehensively integrated laboratory biosafety management system called SINS (Standardization, Informatization, Normalization and Systematization). The SINS model system has been introduced and adopted in 1,721 BSL-2 laboratories in Zhejiang Province,"

MattW said:

Casino_Royale said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

He's doing the Hovis advert.
https://youtu.be/6Mq59ykPnAE?t=33

It's also a fairly traditional image with young laydees from art house films.

It's in Brecon and Radnorshire constituency which is a top 30 LD target. Lab, Green are nowhere.

He's doing the same quirky things to get attention.

and it seems to be working.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

I have to say I am a bit baffled that PB seems to have concluded Dianne Abbott will cost Labour votes. She was very unpopular around these parts and was cited as a reason to not vote Labour in 2019 by several people.

PB Tories seem smitten. Not my cup of tea mind.

wooliedyed said:

Leon said:

EPG said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.

It’s just wearyingly ridiculous

THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES

What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????

Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses

And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now

If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”

Was the bat soup on the menu in the lab canteen?

I still follow this argument even tho it is basically settled. The zoonosis people - the wet marketeers - have now “evolved” their argument such that if it came from the lab via a spillage, if a a bat pissed on a lab worker or a bat bit a cleaner who then went to the market, that now counts as a “natural origin” and they are still right, so the lab is fine and exonerated

Seriously. That is the latest contortion they are making to get their beliefs to square with the
awkward facts

They are as bad as David Icke. Quite depressing that science has become so warped

But anyway. Tish tish: now I must abed in Moldova. Tomorrow, to the wineries! 🥂

Leon said:

EPG said:

geoffw said:

Leon said:

rfry said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

I'm glad we've cleared that up.

I've never heard of him.

I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.

Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.

Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism

Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?

The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.

It’s just wearyingly ridiculous

THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES

What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????

Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses

And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now

If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”

In case anyone just goes ahead and trusts you, the distance between the lab and the market is around 10km. To leak to the market, and to fail to leak in a similar way anywhere in between or around, is the challenge to the lab leak theory. You need to assume (a) they infected their own market or (b) it survived only in the market and subsequently spread in a way consistent with gradual growth during December, and in a way not consistent with a superspreader event due to the timings of the cases.