Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.
Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.
As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Yep. Who cares what Tom Kerridge thinks? Er, me.
Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.
EXCLUSIVE: in one of the final actions of Parliament, just before dissolution, the Government had legislated to ban private prescriptions (originating in UK or abroad) of puberty blockers for under 18s. NHS prescriptions will be restricted - legally - to official trials.
A very sad case. The conduct of the doctor is shocking and the warning given by the President of the Family Division highly unusual and deeply troubling. Labour would be wise to take heed of it.
The purge of the Labour Left disappoints me. Not because I really support their positions, but because I believe the party needs to tolerate a range of views. Abbott in particular has not deserved the treatment she has been given.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
She was already mental long before she became PM
And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
I love how you're still trying to push the idea that they made the wrong decision, even in the throes of his disastrous unforced election. Tory members have been thoroughly vindicated in their decision and they deserve an apology. The loons are the ones who supported and continue to defend the useless article. The man could come and shit in your morning Alpen and you'd still try and claim it would have all worked out if only the awful party had elected him earlier.
Yeah, Sunak’s not good, but are you arguing Truss was better? Truss who is going full-on deep state conspired against her?
Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
She was already mental long before she became PM
And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
That depends on who is left standing. If it's a sensible faction in a good position of power, it might get sorted. If it's all nutters or a close split, it could be like the Chinese civil war. I have no idea in whose hands the preponderance of safe seats lies. I simply daren't look into it.
Edit: I know the membership is still a problem. But they might not factor much into it is two sensible candidates are offered to them.
Will there be two sensible MP's left to facilitate that?
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
Yesterday he was in Hinckley and Bosworth which though on paper looks safe for the Tories is likely to be a Lib Dem gain.
Credit where it’s due. Sacking LRM is excellent, one of the nastiest of MP’s.
I entirely agree that he’s a nasty MP who I disagree with in the strongest possible terms - but at this stage sacking him was up to the voters of Kemptown.
Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.
Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.
Maybe he could light his own farts next.
Or appear in enormous bloomers and throw buckets of confetti over children
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
It is, but Honiton was taken by the LDs in a by-election and East Devon had a strong independent showing so it's not illogical to campaign there.
Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
She was already mental long before she became PM
And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
That depends on who is left standing. If it's a sensible faction in a good position of power, it might get sorted. If it's all nutters or a close split, it could be like the Chinese civil war. I have no idea in whose hands the preponderance of safe seats lies. I simply daren't look into it.
Edit: I know the membership is still a problem. But they might not factor much into it is two sensible candidates are offered to them.
Will there be two sensible MP's left to facilitate that?
"I simply daren't look into it." I said it and I mean it!
FWIW I think David Duguid would be one of the last survivors of a Conpocalypse. That is, if he makes it to the election. Last I heard he had been in intensive care down in Glasgow.
So we have the Tories only one step away from announcing they are bringing back the death penalty, Labour arguing among themselves over Diane Abbott while unwilling to propose basically anything different to the Tories (pre GE plans) and Ed Davey acting like a clown from Cirque du Soleil....and a former PM going all Trump deep state on fringe podcasts.
Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
She was already mental long before she became PM
And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
I'm actually slightly less catastrophic about the tories' medium-to-long-term survival prospects, than I was a few months ago.
I was somewhat swimming against consensus, back then. I sense I'm swimming against consensus again, now, but this time the other way.
Don't get me wrong, I think the betting markets are broadly right and the tories are in for a shellacking. It might even be worth selling tory seats on the spreads and betting on the underestimated possibility of them falling off the ftpt cliff. Still an unlikely prospect, but betting value, nonetheless.
But medium-to-long-term? I recon the party decides, this next time. The survival instinct will kick in. It'll survive and recover. The powerbrokers understand the existential threat. 2022 was a disaster that almost destroyed them.
Almost.
The country deserves a competent opposition Conservative Party, ready to take power if Labour fuck up.
Credit where it’s due. Sacking LRM is excellent, one of the nastiest of MP’s.
I entirely agree that he’s a nasty MP who I disagree with in the strongest possible terms - but at this stage sacking him was up to the voters of Kemptown.
This stinks to high heaven.
No it wasn't up to the voters of Kemptown as it is up to the Labour Party who gets selected as one of their candidates.
They've left it very late to get involved and prevent him, and that is suspicious and may well stink to high heaven, but the democracy of it does not factor into it. It stinks or not regardless of that.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
It's not even a core vote strategy, it's a "tough transparent bit around the pips" vote strategy. I think it's called the endocarp.
It's certainly set to be the endosunak.
On the other hand, it's another indication that the public polls agree with whatever data the parties are collecting.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Yep. Who cares what Tom Kerridge thinks? Er, me.
Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.
Yes, it’s the tone-deafness that really jars. Of all the people to mock, as an “anonymous business figure”, you pick Tom Kerridge? The genial and amiable TV chef and small businessman who is also massively talented and was the first publican to win two Michelin stars? The guy that presents excellent TV shows explaining how to start and run restaurants as a serious business?
It’s just so inept. For their next idea the Tories should get Michelle Mone to publicly smear dung on Joanna Lumley
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
Why does Electoral Calculus take as its starting point the 2019 general election, and ignore not only the famous byelection which the Lib Dems won, but also last year's local government elections?
Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
She was already mental long before she became PM
And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
I'm actually slightly less catastrophic about the tories' medium-to-long-term survival prospects, than I was a few months ago.
I was somewhat swimming against consensus, back then. I sense I'm swimming against consensus again, now, but this time the other way.
Don't get me wrong, I think the betting markets are broadly right and the tories are in for a shellacking. It might even be worth seeking tory seats on the spreads and betting on the underestimated possibility of them falling off the ftpt cliff. Still an unlikely prospect, but betting value, nonetheless.
But medium-to-long-term? I recon the party decides, this next time. The survival instinct will kick in. It'll survive and recover. The powerbrokers understand the existential threat. 2022 was a disaster that almost destroyed them.
Almost.
The country deserves a competent opposition Conservative Party, ready to take power if Labour fuck up.
And that's what we're going to get.
Look at the local elections. The Tories are not going to oblivion any time soon.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
Not exactly focussed, is it? For the Chartists, cappuccino, the Communication Workers Union, against the Iraq war, poverty, racism, PFI, and Thames Water parasites. And on and on and on.
Decent crowd, though - and sounds like he has some union support.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Quite. And a racist conspiracy theory for double points.
They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".
He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.
I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.
Note that in early 1990s, was told in Dublin by a working-class Catholic, originally from Northern Ireland, that the Rev. Dr. Ian Paisley had a very good personal (if not political) reputation among working-class Catholics in North Belfast. Due to his direct assistance to Catholic families in need of assistance.
Don't have details, but have heard the same story from other source. And given the forceful nature (to put it mildly) of Paisley the Elder's powerful personality, my guess is that when he set out to assist somebody, for whatever reason - they sure enough got assisted.
Perhaps something similar re: Corbyn & Abbot re: ultra-orthodox Jewish communities in their bailiwicks?
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
Yesterday he was in Hinckley and Bosworth which though on paper looks safe for the Tories is likely to be a Lib Dem gain.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
But you'd surely admit that a person who thinks it's always Friday, regardless of the evidence to the contrary on Saturday to Thursday, is a bit odd?
The point about 'conspiracy theorists' is not that they believe in a single conspiracy but that they believe in them repeatedly, without the worrying about the evidence, or lack of it.
I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.
Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now. By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.
Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.
I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.
Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.
An excellent post, and one that @BartholomewRoberts should read carefully before claiming to be a supporter both of the current direction of travel in the energy market and of free market principles.
I don't even support Net Zero, but the scenario that @Pagan2 is highly unlikely to be true, because diesel generators come with a massive bunch of compromises.
Firstly, does the generator support the peak load? It's easy to get one that will support your average electricity usage (and that's how people calculate things). But your average load might well be 30% of your maximum load. So to get it working, you may need to spend a lot, lot more than you thought on a generator.
Secondly, at a basic efficiency level, diesel generators are - what - c. 35% efficient. But when under load, that can easily drop to 25%. And then there's maintenance. There's regular thermal expansion and contraction, and there's going to be a lot of wear and tear.
Thirdly, there's hassle. You need to get the diesel to you, and you need to store it. And that is going to cost you both time and money.
If you assume that your only costs are fuel, and that your generator runs at optimal efficiency all the time, you *might* get to £5k/annual saving. But even that is slightly bullshit, because domestic electricity prices lag wholesale ones, while the cost of diesel moves very quickly in line with the world market. And that's before capital cost and maintenance. And you don't even get hot water as a byproduct.
Anyone who thinks they are going to save money by going off grid with a diesel generator is incapable of basic mathematics.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.
As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
If I was a shareholder of a FTSE250 company I wouldn't want my CEO getting involved in partisan politics.
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Yep. Who cares what Tom Kerridge thinks? Er, me.
Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.
But, I suspect you'd care very much if you had an impressive list of captains of industry, FTSE 250 C-Suite leaders - who are precisely who Reeves and Starmer have been courting over recent months - but you don't.
It's quite usual for Labour to flop out a list of popular celebs who love them in the few weeks before an election.
I'm not any more impressed by it this time than I have been before.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
"@patrickkmaguire EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"
Has any reason been given?
Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.
If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.
I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?
Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.
So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.
Because they don't agree on an awful lot? One reason Corbynism was called a 'cult' was that a lot of it was centred on one man and his supposed benevolence. That brought together people who didn't actually agree on a lot but liked the idea of a cuddly socialist who told them what they wanted to hear.
It was a rare phenomenon in decades of infighting. Contained its own contradictions that brought its own downfall, but still.
Now you find that Galloway's creeps don't like the spotty SOAS types who can recite every argument between Marxists in deliberately impenetrable language. Who in turn look down on the rainbow rhythms 'inclusivity' gang and those who are happy in The Greens. Who themselves think those who are just on the left of Labour but quite like party structures and are more concerned about issue x or y than tearing it all down are sellouts. That's before we get to different communities with separate priorities.
They all liked the idea of a Corbyn government, seeing in it what they wanted to see. Damned if they can agree on what comes next without that. Even the man himself would struggle to hold together the 'movement' now its marginalised.
Why don't they form their own party is the 1994 question. That was the year a guy took over as Labour leader who openly praised Thatcher. You would have thought that could have been taken as a signal by the left, but it wasn't.
It's not only because what remains of the Labour left doesn't fancy life in the 57 varieties-ism that plagues the left outside of Labour. It's also because they haven't got the energy to do anything new, having been geared up for the boring work of serving as the loyal "opposition" within Labour and the trade unions for as long as anyone can remember. (In fact a similar thing could be said about the left outside of Labour, but that's another topic.)
One could of course also ask the same question of Labour itself, namely why on Earth don't they fight the Tories. They don't fight the Tories when the Tories are in office, and they don't try to erode the strength of what nourishes the Tory part of society when Labour are in office either. It's easy to mock people who ask that question, but look where we are now, and look at what has never effectively been challenged in this country - the City, Oxford and Cambridge universities, the top private schools[*], NATO, the monarchy, the officer caste, Big Pharma, etc. etc. Wilson and Callaghan and Blair and Brown don't exactly seem to have done much to dent the power of the natural party of government.
*VAT would hardly hurt them. Meanwhile, +1 Dura_Ace for calling them bourgeois turd factories. Nailed them in three words.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?
There are obviously ranges of conspiracy theories. People can be a too free to call any unpopular opinion a conspiracy theory for example. But is there another useful phrase to use for those cases where people clearly do ignore facts or invent details in some complex and implausible scenario, often in support of particular political views or absurdity, like that the moon is a megastructure?
The Covid example is a good case in point - with lots of theories flying around and no one really with a firm idea at that time whether the lab leak theory was correct or not it wasn't outrageous for people to raise that idea depending on the detail of what was proposed. But 5G is about mind control or whatever?
As bondegezou notes what descriptor can be used instead?
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
Labour history is cyclical - hours before a selection vote in Ilford South in 2019, moderate stalwart Jas Athwal was suspended over last-minute allegations which were similarly unspecified and (in his instance) later found to be groundless.
There will be fury from the left over Russell-Moyle but as Athwall, Tom Watson, Alistair Campbell attest, every Labour leadership produces variations on the same theme.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
But you'd surely admit that a person who thinks it's always Friday, regardless of the evidence to the contrary on Saturday to Thursday, is a bit odd?
The point about 'conspiracy theorists' is not that they believe in a single conspiracy but that they believe in them repeatedly, without the worrying about the evidence, or lack of it.
But that is not what the term indicates. The terminology is quite clear. And it's also not the way the term works, which does seem to be to discourage 'conspiracy theories' of any sort from being discussed. Perhaps if conspiracies were discussed widely, put to the test, and where appropriate, the wrongdoers were brought to justice, some people wouldn't jump off the deep end. Really they have been encouraged to believe that polite society has shunned them for entertaining such ideas.
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.
As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
Exactly so, and it's not even 100 small business leaders. It's like, um, 72 of them some of which aren't even in business anymore and are simply down as "former" leaders.
It's giving out the opposite message on Labour and business that they'd like it to, precisely because of what it doesn’t say.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.
The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”
This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”
Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board
Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.
As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
I thought the complaint was they they didn’t have anyone from the FTSE 250 - ie the next 250 mid sized businesses that are too small for the FTSE 100?
The showing from very large businesses was not great to be honest - only one current FTSE 100 CEO - although not surprising as most are very careful not to come out openly for a party, but the FTSE 250 is not the largest 250 listed companies, its those ranked 101-350.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
What’s all this Natty Serves bollocks ?
The kids is calling it Natty Serves innit bruv
I very much doubt that.
They is bruv, right through to the genny lec all yous hear is Natty Serves for all
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
Otherwise no. No one on earth now believes it came from the market. That includes the US government (democrats as well as republicans) who are now firmly gunning for Ecohealth and Peter Daszak who likely made the virus in the Wuhan lab with US money
Howls of derision/outrage/whatever heard today on PB, are clearly demonstrating that . . .
Keir fear is REALLY rampant here!
For the 2-cents or less it's worth, my own take is that Starmer GAINS by pumping as much bilge off his barge as possible. Both by lightening Labour's boat AND by demonstrating that he's tough enough to do it.
What a fictional PM used to call, "giving 'em a bit of stick". Which is a quality that voters appreciate, at least in moderation. And Keir Starmer is doing it moderately, at least in one way anyway.
Agreed. The very people on PB shedding crocodile tears for how poor Jeremy and Diane have been treated are exactly the same people who would claiming that Labour was anti-semitic and the left were waiting to pounce if they were still standing for the Labour Party.
Many of the voters that are planning to switch to Labour this time will be delighted to see Corbyn and Abbott kicked into touch. The Corbynite left and Hamas sympathisers were always gone to piss and moan when Labour did what it had to do to win a GE.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?
But the term is not confined to such people. As our probably new Russian friend just mentioned, it was also thrown at anyone who suggested that covid might have been created in a lab.
It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.
Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
Why does Electoral Calculus take as its starting point the 2019 general election, and ignore not only the famous byelection which the Lib Dems won, but also last year's local government elections?
Labour are nowhere in this seat.
Only 2/3rds of it is part of the Tiverton and Honiton seat that was won at the by-election, the other 1/3 of the seat the Lib Dems polled 2.8% last time, and in the 2023 local elections Conservatives heavily out-polled the Lib Dems so that will influence the EC projection.
To be fair there was a big vote for the East Devon Independent Alliance and there is a sense that that group are Lib Dems in disguise, though they were still competing against the Lib Dems in the council elections and their main strength is in the Exmouth and Exeter East part of the council.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
Otherwise no. No one on earth now believes it came from the market. That includes the US government (democrats as well as republicans) who are now firmly gunning for Ecohealth and Peter Daszak who likely made the virus in the Wuhan lab with US money
Whaaaaaat? It didn't come from bat soup???? Crazy.
Anyone know when results start to come through from the South African election?
No, though there will be at least one early result it appears.
Catering for only 165 registered voters, the historic Robben Island is normally the first polling station to have its result declared in South Africa’s elections.
This year will be no different as the result is expected after midnight.
Asipe Zilwa, presiding officer at the island’s voting station, says with three hours remaining only 51 votes had been cast, although many of the outstanding ballots were expected to be completed after the staff of the Robben Island Museum finish their working day.
“Everything went smoothly and only one party, the ANC, had an agent present,” says Zilwa.
The secured ballots are expected to be transported to Cape Town on the first ferry in the morning, accompanied by a member of South Africa's police service.
Interestingly, the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) claimed the majority of the votes on the island in the 2021 municipal elections.
Our latest poll asked voters whether Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer was best placed to manage 13 different policy areas? Tax, NHS, crime etc. Starmer won on all 13.
I have to say I am a bit baffled that PB seems to have concluded Dianne Abbott will cost Labour votes. She was very unpopular around these parts and was cited as a reason to not vote Labour in 2019 by several people.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?
But the term is not confined to such people. As our probably new Russian friend just mentioned, it was also thrown at anyone who suggested that covid might have been created in a lab.
It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.
I don't know that it's got quite the right connotations, but OK, I'll give "conspiracy junkie" a go.
Liz Truss is rapidly becoming a conspiracy junkie.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.
It’s just wearyingly ridiculous
THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES
What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????
Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses
And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now
If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”
Our latest poll asked voters whether Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer was best placed to manage 13 different policy areas? Tax, NHS, crime etc. Starmer won on all 13.
There are obviously ranges of conspiracy theories. People can be a too free to call any unpopular opinion a conspiracy theory for example. But is there another useful phrase to use for those cases where people clearly do ignore facts or invent details in some complex and implausible scenario, often in support of particular political views or absurdity, like that the moon is a megastructure?
The Covid example is a good case in point - with lots of theories flying around and no one really with a firm idea at that time whether the lab leak theory was correct or not it wasn't outrageous for people to raise that idea depending on the detail of what was proposed. But 5G is about mind control or whatever?
It's often the certainty that highlights a conspiracy theorist. They *know* what happened, because they are awesome and can see truths few others can. There can be no other alternatives; their theory is correct.
When it comes to things like lab leak, I'm perfectly open to the idea. However, it has not been proven, and there are other alternatives that al ad so make sense. But when someone settles on one possibility, at the exclusion of all the other possibilities, then they can become a conspiracy theorist b/s merchant.
My favourite conspiracy theory was the person who claimed that the Argentinians sunk a RN carrier during the Falklands war. He did at least argue with his opponents, and took on board some of the facts they presented. This led him to make the claim that the USA built another Invincible-class carrier in secret to replace the one the Argentinians had sunk...
All because the Argentinian Junta needed a good news story, whether truthful or not.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
When one encounters someone who believes that the Jews control the world and engineered COVID-19 so they could inject lots of vaccines into people that would kill them, do you have a handy term to describe them other than "conspiracy theorist"?
But the term is not confined to such people. As our probably new Russian friend just mentioned, it was also thrown at anyone who suggested that covid might have been created in a lab.
It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.
I don't know that it's got quite the right connotations, but OK, I'll give "conspiracy junkie" a go.
Liz Truss is rapidly becoming a conspiracy junkie.
I don’t agree, but I applaud and I'm glad to see the term being used at least once.
Does anyone know when we will find out if the Sun or Times are backing Labour?
Listen to last nights LBC phone in and then make your mind up. It's not going to lose them the election or maybe even more than a tiny handful of seats if at all, but it has pissed off a lot of people. It's a case of DYOR but that's my view
Does anyone know when we will find out if the Sun or Times are backing Labour?
Ironically, the only right-wing / centre-right paper who sided with Sunak, in the Sunak vs Truss battle, will almost certainly endorse Starmer this time round.
Talking of which, the Times' How to win an election show/podcast/YouTube is a great listen!
I have to say I am a bit baffled that PB seems to have concluded Dianne Abbott will cost Labour votes. She was very unpopular around these parts and was cited as a reason to not vote Labour in 2019 by several people.
I think the idea is it could be used by dicontented Labour factions to cause a ruckus, but I just cannot see it - that faction is on the outs right now, the party is salivating at the prospect of getting back into power so even most who are sympathetic are not goign to go anywhere, most constituencies probably won't have a further left option other than the Greens to vote for, and with the general increase in the Labour vote predicted that surely means more centrist voters who won't have liked Abbott or the hard left anyway.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.
It’s just wearyingly ridiculous
THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES
What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????
Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses
And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now
If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”
I have to say I am a bit baffled that PB seems to have concluded Dianne Abbott will cost Labour votes. She was very unpopular around these parts and was cited as a reason to not vote Labour in 2019 by several people.
The left will throw their toys out of the pram and huff and puff. If Labour lose votes here and there it will be barely noticeable. It will heighten the Corbynite unwind but that’s no bad thing.
Our latest poll asked voters whether Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer was best placed to manage 13 different policy areas? Tax, NHS, crime etc. Starmer won on all 13.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.
I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
I've never heard of him.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
Indeed the covid lab leak theory was initially denounced as a conspiracy theory.
Not just that. The lab leak hypothesis was a “racist conspiracy theory” and the scientific powers-that-be managed to silence it for a year on TwiX and Facebook. You literally weren’t allowed to talk about it, like we were all Galileo trying to push heliocentrism
Does anyone nowadays not think it came from the lab?
The lack of early cases around the lab, and the gradual growth of early cases around the market, are problems for the lab leak theory. I think you would have to believe that there were many unreported and suppressed cases, prior to any official knowledge of COVID-19 on the part of China, that were caused by the lab leak, and that China suppressed all the cases that affecting everywhere except the market, including the lab of course, which also had the ancestral properties of the variants of the virus traced to the market. This is the most plausible version I can come up with, and it is less plausible to me than a simpler theory around a market.
It’s just wearyingly ridiculous
THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES
What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????
Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses
And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now
If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”
I can't believe that anyone wants to seriously debate this anymore. The probabilities and circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming it reaches the realms of obvious.
The much more difficult questions are what are the implications of such actions by China? Are we confident that they have learned their lesson and will not play such games again? And can we ever forgive them for the millions of dead?
None of these questions have easy answers. Avoidance of them is the only possible justification for pretending that there is a doubt.
Comments
As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.
A very sad case. The conduct of the doctor is shocking and the warning given by the President of the Family Division highly unusual and deeply troubling. Labour would be wise to take heed of it.
I'm glad we've cleared that up.
This stinks to high heaven.
The Tories have failed to close Labour’s lead since the snap election was called
Was 17pts before. Still 17pts after
That’s per our new Telegraph-Savanta poll done Friday to Sun
🌹Labour 44% (+1)
🌳 Conservative 27% (+1)
🔶 Lib Dems 10% (=)
➡️Reform UK 8% (-1)
🌍 Green 4% (-1)
I said it and I mean it!
FWIW I think David Duguid would be one of the last survivors of a Conpocalypse. That is, if he makes it to the election. Last I heard he had been in intensive care down in Glasgow.
Aren't we spoiled for choices.
I was somewhat swimming against consensus, back then. I sense I'm swimming against consensus again, now, but this time the other way.
Don't get me wrong, I think the betting markets are broadly right and the tories are in for a shellacking. It might even be worth selling tory seats on the spreads and betting on the underestimated possibility of them falling off the ftpt cliff. Still an unlikely prospect, but betting value, nonetheless.
But medium-to-long-term? I recon the party decides, this next time. The survival instinct will kick in. It'll survive and recover. The powerbrokers understand the existential threat. 2022 was a disaster that almost destroyed them.
Almost.
The country deserves a competent opposition Conservative Party, ready to take power if Labour fuck up.
And that's what we're going to get.
They've left it very late to get involved and prevent him, and that is suspicious and may well stink to high heaven, but the democracy of it does not factor into it. It stinks or not regardless of that.
It's certainly set to be the endosunak.
On the other hand, it's another indication that the public polls agree with whatever data the parties are collecting.
I dislike the phrase conspiracy theorist. It's for dullards. Conspiracies happen sometimes. One assumes people who like to call other people conspiracy theorist don't actually deny the notion of conspiracy itself. Therefore 'conspiracy theorist' as a value judgement makes no sense. It's like insulting someone by calling them 'a person who thinks it's another person's birthday'. A birthday believer. Or a person who thinks it's Friday. A friday freak. Sometimes it is Friday. Sometimes it's someone else's birthday.
restaurants as a serious business?
It’s just so inept. For their next idea the Tories should get Michelle Mone to publicly smear dung on Joanna Lumley
Labour are nowhere in this seat.
Not exactly focussed, is it? For the Chartists, cappuccino, the Communication Workers Union, against the Iraq war, poverty, racism, PFI, and Thames Water parasites. And on and on and on.
Decent crowd, though - and sounds like he has some union support.
Don't have details, but have heard the same story from other source. And given the forceful nature (to put it mildly) of Paisley the Elder's powerful personality, my guess is that when he set out to assist somebody, for whatever reason - they sure enough got assisted.
Perhaps something similar re: Corbyn & Abbot re: ultra-orthodox Jewish communities in their bailiwicks?
The point about 'conspiracy theorists' is not that they believe in a single conspiracy but that they believe in them repeatedly, without the worrying about the evidence, or lack of it.
Firstly, does the generator support the peak load? It's easy to get one that will support your average electricity usage (and that's how people calculate things). But your average load might well be 30% of your maximum load. So to get it working, you may need to spend a lot, lot more than you thought on a generator.
Secondly, at a basic efficiency level, diesel generators are - what - c. 35% efficient. But when under load, that can easily drop to 25%. And then there's maintenance. There's regular thermal expansion and contraction, and there's going to be a lot of wear and tear.
Thirdly, there's hassle. You need to get the diesel to you, and you need to store it. And that is going to cost you both time and money.
If you assume that your only costs are fuel, and that your generator runs at optimal efficiency all the time, you *might* get to £5k/annual saving. But even that is slightly bullshit, because domestic electricity prices lag wholesale ones, while the cost of diesel moves very quickly in line with the world market. And that's before capital cost and maintenance. And you don't even get hot water as a byproduct.
Anyone who thinks they are going to save money by going off grid with a diesel generator is incapable of basic mathematics.
Almost like he wants to get elected, and doesn't want to be saddled with a load of absolute maniacs saying/doing stupid shit.
It's quite usual for Labour to flop out a list of popular celebs who love them in the few weeks before an election.
I'm not any more impressed by it this time than I have been before.
Galloway now heading up the Stop the Waugh movement
It's not only because what remains of the Labour left doesn't fancy life in the 57 varieties-ism that plagues the left outside of Labour. It's also because they haven't got the energy to do anything new, having been geared up for the boring work of serving as the loyal "opposition" within Labour and the trade unions for as long as anyone can remember. (In fact a similar thing could be said about the left outside of Labour, but that's another topic.)
One could of course also ask the same question of Labour itself, namely why on Earth don't they fight the Tories. They don't fight the Tories when the Tories are in office, and they don't try to erode the strength of what nourishes the Tory part of society when Labour are in office either. It's easy to mock people who ask that question, but look where we are now, and look at what has never effectively been challenged in this country - the City, Oxford and Cambridge universities, the top private schools[*], NATO, the monarchy, the officer caste, Big Pharma, etc. etc. Wilson and Callaghan and Blair and Brown don't exactly seem to have done much to dent the power of the natural party of government.
*VAT would hardly hurt them. Meanwhile, +1 Dura_Ace for calling them bourgeois turd factories. Nailed them in three words.
The Covid example is a good case in point - with lots of theories flying around and no one really with a firm idea at that time whether the lab leak theory was correct or not it wasn't outrageous for people to raise that idea depending on the detail of what was proposed. But 5G is about mind control or whatever?
As bondegezou notes what descriptor can be used instead?
There will be fury from the left over Russell-Moyle but as Athwall, Tom Watson, Alistair Campbell attest, every Labour leadership produces variations on the same theme.
https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1795874827380687081
Our first poll of the campaign for our GE partners
@Telegraph
includes questions to the public on what tasks they'd trust Sunak & Starmer with:
🛞Change a tire: 43% Starmer, just 17% Sunak
🦘Win I'm a celeb: 32% Starmer, 21% Sunak
🍺Buy the first round: 41% Starmer, 25% Sunak
It's giving out the opposite message on Labour and business that they'd like it to, precisely because of what it doesn’t say.
The showing from very large businesses was not great to be honest - only one current FTSE 100 CEO - although not surprising as most are very careful not to come out openly for a party, but the FTSE 250 is not the largest 250 listed companies, its those ranked 101-350.
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/practically-a-book-review-rootclaim
I'd pick neither.
Otherwise no. No one on earth now believes it came from the market. That includes the US government (democrats as well as republicans) who are now firmly gunning for Ecohealth and Peter Daszak who likely made the virus in the Wuhan lab with US money
Many of the voters that are planning to switch to Labour this time will be delighted to see Corbyn and Abbott kicked into touch. The Corbynite left and Hamas sympathisers were always gone to piss and moan when Labour did what it had to do to win a GE.
It won't catch on, but I'd suggest 'conspiracy junkie' or 'conspiracy addict' might better the notion better.
To be fair there was a big vote for the East Devon Independent Alliance and there is a sense that that group are Lib Dems in disguise, though they were still competing against the Lib Dems in the council elections and their main strength is in the Exmouth and Exeter East part of the council.
Catering for only 165 registered voters, the historic Robben Island is normally the first polling station to have its result declared in South Africa’s elections.
This year will be no different as the result is expected after midnight.
Asipe Zilwa, presiding officer at the island’s voting station, says with three hours remaining only 51 votes had been cast, although many of the outstanding ballots were expected to be completed after the staff of the Robben Island Museum finish their working day.
“Everything went smoothly and only one party, the ANC, had an agent present,” says Zilwa.
The secured ballots are expected to be transported to Cape Town on the first ferry in the morning, accompanied by a member of South Africa's police service.
Interestingly, the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) claimed the majority of the votes on the island in the 2021 municipal elections.
Robben Island was used by the apartheid government to incarcerate political prisoners between 1961 and 1991.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-69067213
Our latest poll asked voters whether Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer was best placed to manage 13 different policy areas? Tax, NHS, crime etc. Starmer won on all 13.
https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1795907687655276871
Liz Truss is rapidly becoming a conspiracy junkie.
THERE WAS A LAB 2 MINUTES WALK FROM THE MARKET MAKING DANGEROUS BAT CORONAVIRUSES
What are the odds? Seriously?? What are the fucking odds????
Of all the cities in all the world this dangerously evolved novel bat coronavirus happened to emerge in the ONLY city in the world with a laboratory dedicated to evolving dangerous novel bat coronaviruses
And the leakiest of the labs - BSL2 - described as “Wild West” be Jeremy Farrar (now head of WHO) - was right by the market. It leaked from the lab and was spread at the market. That’s what happened. We all know it now
If you look at the emails at the time, gouged out by freedom of info, all the top scientists at that time presumed it probably came from the lab. Including Jeremy Farrar. They just didn’t say it publicly because “that will damage science” and “cause a shitshow with China”
When it comes to things like lab leak, I'm perfectly open to the idea. However, it has not been proven, and there are other alternatives that al ad so make sense. But when someone settles on one possibility, at the exclusion of all the other possibilities, then they can become a conspiracy theorist b/s merchant.
My favourite conspiracy theory was the person who claimed that the Argentinians sunk a RN carrier during the Falklands war. He did at least argue with his opponents, and took on board some of the facts they presented. This led him to make the claim that the USA built another Invincible-class carrier in secret to replace the one the Argentinians had sunk...
All because the Argentinian Junta needed a good news story, whether truthful or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
https://youtu.be/6Mq59ykPnAE?t=33
It's also a fairly traditional image with young laydees from art house films.
It's in Brecon and Radnorshire constituency which is a top 30 LD target. Lab, Green are nowhere.
He's doing the same quirky things to get attention.
Talking of which, the Times' How to win an election show/podcast/YouTube is a great listen!
The much more difficult questions are what are the implications of such actions by China? Are we confident that they have learned their lesson and will not play such games again? And can we ever forgive them for the millions of dead?
None of these questions have easy answers. Avoidance of them is the only possible justification for pretending that there is a doubt.