One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Sean_F said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
(to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.

She's Diane Abbott. Surely she'll get a place in the House of Lords, and no matter her faults, to my mind she has one of the best claims to a place in that House.

Agreed. Punt her up to the Lords. She’s earned it (unlike many)

Sadly that goes against one of my proposed House of Lords quickie reforms, if Keir is looking to do something without wasting capital on a full scale reform.

No MP may become a Peer until 8 years or 2 parliamentary terms has passed, whichever is longer.

The point of it being to ensure ex-MPs earn a place with post parliamentary work, and that it is not treated as a retirement home, or a way to convince recalcitrant MPs to step aside.

But on current rules she'd be a shoo-in.

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

William Hague without the good points.

MikeL said:

Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

Corbyn
Abbott
Shaheen
Russell-Moyle
Begum

Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

Most of that lot wouldn't be seen dead in Galloway's WPB.

You're right that they could plausibly have stood together - perhaps not as a party in the traditional sense, more likely as an informal alliance. But they've probably left it too late.

Corbyn's not really ruthless enough, and probably still has too much residual loyalty to the party. But I suspect it actually might've worked out better for Labour if he'd gone for it a year ago - resigned from the party, set up a new grouping, attracted a few like-minded defectors.

If nothing else, it would have cauterized the wound.

ToryJim said:

Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

at one point the Greens had two leaders because they presumably wanted a few different view points - how things change - The greens seems to have turned into the most extreme party - which might not be so bad if it was about environmental policies but that seems boring to them now when they can play in Middle East politics and take on board anything Stonewall comes out with

Roger said:

They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.

AlsoLei said:

MikeL said:

Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

Corbyn
Abbott
Shaheen
Russell-Moyle
Begum

Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

Most of that lot wouldn't be seen dead in Galloway's WPB.

You're right that they could plausibly have stood together - perhaps not as a party in the traditional sense, more likely as an informal alliance. But they've probably left it too late.

Corbyn's not really ruthless enough, and probably still has too much residual loyalty to the party. But I suspect it actually might've worked out better for Labour if he'd gone for it a year ago - resigned from the party, set up a new grouping, attracted a few like-minded defectors.

If nothing else, it would have cauterized the wound.

Change UK did rubbish when malcontents from the main parties joined up . Corbyn is better on his own because like Galloway he is respected by many who do not share or know his politics

Your regular reminder that our top political parties are practically best friends compared to how things go in america.

A Trump supporter wearing a “Hang Biden for treason” shirt claims the Coronavirus was “released intentionally” by Dems to steal the 2020 election:

“It was a Plandemic and everyone knows it…Everyone responsible for it should be at the end of a noose”
https://nitter.poast.org/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1795884604869542243#m

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

sbjme19 said:

Taz said:

ToryJim said:

Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?

I've wondered why IDS wasn't stepping down like so many other Tories when he was in a highly vulnerable position. Perhaps having experienced his opponent already he took the view there was still everything to play for.

He's still cracking value on the consistency markets.

I'm on at 11/2 where I'd probably have him 5/2 now

Casino_Royale said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

Going downhill fast ! Like his campaign

Faiza Shaheen is another nutter. Get rid.

Roger said:

They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

Oh Roger. It sounds like you are happy to stay true to ideology, dispense with pragmatism and give the Tories another five years. Bless you!

RochdalePioneers said:

So, you know RLM, recently outrageously deselected? I assume that when he demanded the mandatory reselection of Labour MPs that the MPs he envisaged being removed by a partisan putsch were awful Blairite types?

Do have to laugh…

So in what universe does the membership should have complete freedom to pick their own candidates equal the membership should have no opportunity to pick their own candidates?

DM_Andy said:

Roger said:

They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.

As I understand it, it's a bit of a mix - but they're certainly not as straightforwardly anti-Corbynite as outsiders might expect. They're unlikely to get on as well with a bunch of bussed-in supporters who don't understand the nuances, though, which is why Abbott is stronger with the support of the local party than she is without it.

(And they're not the only Jewish community in the seat, either, which complicates the picture further)

Omnium said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

William Hague without the good points.

Identical then?

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

Watch dealer should not have been alone, company says

He was found dead at his home in Shepperton, Surrey, in non-suspicious circumstances the following day.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11lne4wzro

Its a very sad story, but why does reading a BBC article these days feel like I need a translator to understand what they mean but won't say. The guy killed himself. His family have said so.

bondegezou said:

rcs1000 said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?

Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.

Exactly, and if I didn't know that then I might have taken at face value Sandpit's assertion that Carl Benjamin was now a moderate, mainstream centre-right political analyst.

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

*pokes head above parapet*

*actually goes over the top*

Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other

I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

..

wooliedyed said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

GIN1138 said:

Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....

She told me I could consolidate all my debts into one easy payment.

The thing is it is dead easy to criticise the Tories without going down the Steve Bray rabbit hole. You look bonkers if you keep making these wild false claims and posting weird rumours.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got in for me!

…

FrancisUrquhart said:

Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.

I’m sure if he had been pictured with a £50 rucksack then everyone would have been giving him grief about using a prop that he would never actually own rather than the sort of backpack a billionaire chooses these days and so he was being fake.

FrancisUrquhart said:

wooliedyed said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

GIN1138 said:

Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....

She told me I could consolidate all my debts into one easy payment.

The thing is it is dead easy to criticise the Tories without going down the Steve Bray rabbit hole. You look bonkers if you keep making these wild false claims and posting weird rumours.

She's just plain weird.

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

*pokes head above parapet*

*actually goes over the top*

Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other

I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.

I too have met many wonderful Israelis. And quite a few rude and unpleasant ones

But you’re carefully avoiding my argument. Anti-Arab racism has suffused Israeli society, and can now be found at the top of the Israeli government

Yes it is explicable, even understandable, given Israel’s position. But it is also quite horrible to witness

Tragically, exactly the same radicalisation can be found on the Palestinian side. Hamas is popular, the moderates are not

As I say, maybe the only solution is all out war. Finish it once and for all, either way, peace now seems impossible

RochdalePioneers said:

LostPassword said:

Andy_JS said:

We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

"@patrickkmaguire
EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

Has any reason been given?

Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.

If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.

I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?

Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.

So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.

Because they don't agree on an awful lot? One reason Corbynism was called a 'cult' was that a lot of it was centred on one man and his supposed benevolence. That brought together people who didn't actually agree on a lot but liked the idea of a cuddly socialist who told them what they wanted to hear.

It was a rare phenomenon in decades of infighting. Contained its own contradictions that brought its own downfall, but still.

Now you find that Galloway's creeps don't like the spotty SOAS types who can recite every argument between Marxists in deliberately impenetrable language. Who in turn look down on the rainbow rhythms 'inclusivity' gang and those who are happy in The Greens. Who themselves think those who are just on the left of Labour but quite like party structures and are more concerned about issue x or y than tearing it all down are sellouts. That's before we get to different communities with separate priorities.

They all liked the idea of a Corbyn government, seeing in it what they wanted to see. Damned if they can agree on what comes next without that. Even the man himself would struggle to hold together the 'movement' now its marginalised.

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.

She was already mental long before she became PM

And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.

theProle said:

I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.

An excellent post, and one that @BartholomewRoberts should read carefully before claiming to be a supporter both of the current direction of travel in the energy market and of free market principles.

Neil Parish has been very visible lately. I wonder if the old tractor tugger is being stuck in somewhere?

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.

She was cracked long before she was booted from the job she never should have had.

SKS is a ruthless bastard. He is purging the hard left and making sure only Blairites or Starmerites will run the party in the future.

Jezza should have tried it whilst he was leader.

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

*pokes head above parapet*

*actually goes over the top*

Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other

I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.

I too have met many wonderful Israelis. And quite a few rude and unpleasant ones

But you’re carefully avoiding my argument. Anti-Arab racism has suffused Israeli society, and can now be found at the top of the Israeli government

Yes it is explicable, even understandable, given Israel’s position. But it is also quite horrible to witness

Tragically, exactly the same radicalisation can be found on the Palestinian side. Hamas is popular, the moderates are not

As I say, maybe the only solution is all out war. Finish it once and for all, either way, peace now seems impossible

AIPAC and the Israel lobby in the USA are immensely powerful which means the US has consistently gone easy on Israel in a way it likely wouldnt for other countries.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.

That is very British. Germany - by contrast - is full of middle sized firms.

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.

That is very British. Germany - by contrast - is full of middle sized firms.

I thought that might be the case. Again, while politicians are arguing over bollocks, this stuff is actually important. Why is this the case, how do we change it...It not good for the balance of the economy long term to be so imbalanced.

Casino_Royale said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.

Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.

You could probably find a few dozen small business owners to back any party.

And Jimmy Wales and a celebrity chef is pretty desperate.

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

MattW said:

Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

Straight out of the Hovis advert.

https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

Cycle Chic it is not.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

WTF is he doing?

Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.

Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.

Maybe he could light his own farts next.

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Chortle. Not as advertised.

"Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.

Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board

Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?

Yep. Who cares what Tom Kerridge thinks? Er, me.

Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.

The purge of the Labour Left disappoints me. Not because I really support their positions, but because I believe the party needs to tolerate a range of views. Abbott in particular has not deserved the treatment she has been given.

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Farooq said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.

She was already mental long before she became PM

And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.

I love how you're still trying to push the idea that they made the wrong decision, even in the throes of his disastrous unforced election. Tory members have been thoroughly vindicated in their decision and they deserve an apology. The loons are the ones who supported and continue to defend the useless article. The man could come and shit in your morning Alpen and you'd still try and claim it would have all worked out if only the awful party had elected him earlier.

Yeah, Sunak’s not good, but are you arguing Truss was better? Truss who is going full-on deep state conspired against her?

Taz said:

DM_Andy said:

Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy

Yesterday he was in Hinckley and Bosworth which though on paper looks safe for the Tories is likely to be a Lib Dem gain.