Josiah Mortimer @josiahmortimer Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"
Chaminda Jayanetti @cjayanetti must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc
She kept pretty quiet after her ousing, and I kind of admire that such an epic humiliation did not destroy her. Given things have gone poorly I'd assume she would have focused on trying to say her economic plans were right all along, but she seems to be more interested in culture war stuff instead.
There's more money in the culture war stuff, so that probably played a part in shaping her post-PM path. Her views on economic radicalism are interesting, but it would only be worth her while concentrating on them if she hoped to find a way back from the wilderness.
By chasing the culture war cash, she's telling us that she doesn't think she can do that.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".
Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
However a key difference between the cases is that we can specify what laws Donald Trump has broken, and on which dates too, with evidence that can be taken to court.
Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever. Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.
Edit. Now 101.
As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.
I think there is so much power in batting these days. Sixes over 100m are becoming increasingly common. Not sure that any woman will have that level of power. Also. no female batsman is used to dealing with a 90mph bowler coming at their throat. I think a non fast bowler is a much better bet.
You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.
This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.
The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
Yes, although I think LRM is a jerk this is alarmingly open to abuse.
An alternative would be to say that he would be suspended *after* the election while an investigation took place.
Edit - unless they can find a placeholder? But I suspect at this stage even if Starmer isn't playing silly buggers an NEC imposition is the only route fast enough.
Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
Lots.....Just none iconic
But what’s the criteria here? The photo or the event?
Not picking a political fight, just genuinely interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever. Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.
Edit. Now 101.
As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.
I think there is so much power in batting these days. Sixes over 100m are becoming increasingly common. Not sure that any woman will have that level of power. Also. no female batsman is used to dealing with a 90mph bowler coming at their throat. I think a non fast bowler is a much better bet.
Almost feels like they'd have a better chance at Test level - for all the Bazball stuff people can still build a big innings without a single six, plenty of top players at Test level are not famed as the biggest of hitters, so raw power is less important than in ODI or T20.
Obviousy the base level of top athletes is still there with any disparity between sexes, but it seems more achievable.
You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.
This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.
The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
Yes, although I think LRM is a jerk this is alarmingly open to abuse.
An alternative would be to say that he would be suspended *after* the election while an investigation took place.
Edit - unless they can find a placeholder? But I suspect at this stage even if Starmer isn't playing silly buggers an NEC imposition is the only route fast enough.
It's open to abuse in many ways from many fronts. It stinks.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.
Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.
And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...
I have no issue with Angela Rayner's background, upbringing, sex or her (rather good) dancing to 90s Old Skool anthems.
I do have an issue with her politics and her way of personalising politics.
Angela Rayner is the right type of working class person for the middle classes. It’s the Essex white van man or northern brexiteer types they have disdain for but they can use the likes of Rayner to say, I’m not anti working class I like Angela Rayner.
Plenty of us are working class. Some, like Rayner, use it as a badge of honour and a political tool and the posh boys lap it up.
Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
Lots.....Just none iconic
It what’s the criteria here? Not picking a political fight, just generally interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.
It's not particularly the photographic quality -though one of the most famous shots ever taken is here -more that they're famous shots. For example I knew them all bar three or four.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
Sometimes they do, but over time most youtube personalities, like others, pander to their core support.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".
Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
However a key difference between the cases is that we can specify what laws Donald Trump has broken, and on which dates too, with evidence that can be taken to court.
They have the presumption of innocence. Not quite the same thing.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
It's preaching to the converted to the most part. 180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute. Even if only 0.1% of that is political that's 10 times how much as you can watch even if you did so 24 hours per day. So people are going to more attracted to stuff that strokes their feelings. How many people are really going to watch Vaush and Lotus Eaters, I suspect not many.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
I suspect with Abbott it's a degree of self-centredness and a lack of awareness of others, rather than avid anti-semitism (though I may be wrong, I don't know her personally).
She herself has been subjected to horrendous racist abuse over the years and she struggles to accept that other ethnicities have been abused in similar, sometimes worse, ways.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Howls of derision/outrage/whatever heard today on PB, are clearly demonstrating that . . .
Keir fear is REALLY rampant here!
For the 2-cents or less it's worth, my own take is that Starmer GAINS by pumping as much bilge off his barge as possible. Both by lightening Labour's boat AND by demonstrating that he's tough enough to do it.
What a fictional PM used to call, "giving 'em a bit of stick". Which is a quality that voters appreciate, at least in moderation. And Keir Starmer is doing it moderately, at least in one way anyway.
I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.
Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now. By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.
Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.
I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.
Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.
Wouldn't it be nice if James Daly was charged with wasting police time?
A mate of mine had outrageous allegations made against him. The police investigated as the allegations were serious. Satisfied themselves that there was nothing to see. Same person repeats the allegation with an "oh yeah, there was this other occasion as well" spin. And the accuser was told very clearly by the police that they would do them for perverting the course of justice if they didn't shut up and go away.
So yes, lets do James Daly. A man so strong in his convictions that he refused to make them in public because either he didn't understand what the whips had told him to tell the police, or because he did know, and knew they were defamatory if repeated because they were totally baseless.
Happily we won't hear from him again after 5th July.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.
Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.
I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.
Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.
I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.
I think the introduction of STV as in Ireland and Scottish local elections would be perfect, if you want more seats you have to be transfer friendly as well as reduce the chance of an overwhelming majority on only 40% of the vote.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
I've already explained and I don't want to repeat myself.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
The people crying on behalf of Abbott couldn't give a shiny one to see the back of the Conservatives.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.
But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
I know IDS is a faithful Roman Catholic but I don't think even he thought he could have been that lucky however many Hail Marys he said.
If the official Labour candidate Fazia Shaheen (who also stood last time for Labour and has a big following in the left of Labour) has been suspended and stands as an Independent against whoever replaces her as Labour candidate IDS has just gone from a 1% chance of victory to a near 50% chance of victory even on current polls as the Labour vote in Chingford and Woodford Green would split in 2
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Another Corbynite v Starmerite battle then in Hackney, this is unnecessary from Starmer, even Blair kept Tony Benn, Abbott and Skinner and Corbyn as Labour candidates
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.
Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.
I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
She's all yours. Would you vote for her? I wouldn't.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.
But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?
I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.
However, critics were quick to point out that the list didn’t contain a single chief executive of a FTSE 100 company. Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
And it seems that the person who told the Times that she'd been binned did so after Abbott herself told the BBC that she'd been barred (based on, it appears, on absolutely no concrete information).
So it could well be the case that the Times' leaker was actually just repeating something they'd heard from Abbott.
It's all a bit circular, and feels a bit like the actions of someone determined to be upset come what may.
(That's not to say that the party shouldn't have tried harder to keep her happy, of course - but Abbott isn't just an innocent victim in this mess)
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
Is the Trump jury expected to pend several days deliberating, or will they wrap it up today?
Why don't you ask them? The thing about jury trial is nobody knows what the jury is thinking once it goes into the jury room to deliberate on its verdict, even the judge and defendant and counsel
You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.
The guy is an absolute bellend, but it really stinks. It could also absolutely open the floodgates for all parties, you just need one person to make some difficult to disprove complaint about historic bad behaviour now and they are off the campaign.
Another Corbynite v Starmerite battle then in Hackney, this is unnecessary from Starmer, even Blair kept Tony Benn, Abbott and Skinner and Corbyn as Labour candidates
Blair was in a slightly different situation in that the left had been put back in their box over nearly a decade and a half. Starmer has to deal with a left that is stronger and less completely discredited than Blair had to handle. He might be over doing things but he probably feels the need to assert the amount of change. Blair largely took the credit for Kinnocks heavy lifting.
I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.
We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.
That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.
I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.
The main thing this story shows Starmer is ruthless. Abbott's sacking was botched almost certainly by an aide, not by Starmer himself.
There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.
But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?
I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.
That's a separate if possibly tangential issue - whether the party is as inclusive of internal factions as it should be - to whether as an individual someone has support from colleagues.
That was part of Corbyn's problem apparently - a nice enough man to his colleagues, but not really well known or supported, so leading the party was very hard, lacking those personal relationships.
Abbott is not seeking to lead the party, and it may be that if Keir is pushing out factional opponents he is making the wrong call, but if there is not a fuss in the party, I'd be curious why that is.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.
Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.
We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.
That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.
I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.
The main thing this story shows Starmer is ruthless. Abbott's sacking was botched almost certainly by an aide, not by Starmer himself.
There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.
The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.
People can care about foreign affairs, but if that is the number one issue on the doorstep in a constituency I'd be assuming a pushing bias from the person reporting it, or something really odd about that constituency. Not the NHS, cost of living, climate change, nothing?
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
She's Diane Abbott. Surely she'll get a place in the House of Lords, and no matter her faults, to my mind she has one of the best claims to a place in that House.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
I am old enough to remember when PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott was being laughed at by PB Tories for wearing two left ( or right) shoes and for being unable to count.
Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated' Fight is on
So Abbott has decided to force the decision.
Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.
Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated' Fight is on
So Abbott has decided to force the decision.
Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.
Whilst it will make no overall difference it will lose labour more votes outside Hackney than she costs them there. A lot of anger bubbling up over it. They are fortunate to be 20 clear
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.
Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
Anecdote is anecdote, obviously it has flaws. I don't really see how anecdotes about the internal machinations of a constituency party really relate to her electoral performance though, as someone could be a great MP (and as a backbencher for most of her career I'd assume she was pretty good) but not get on with local officials or colleagues - I know councillors who cannot stand their local MP who is of the same party as them for instance.
She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?
The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.
People can care about foreign affairs, but if that is the number one issue on the doorstep in a constituency I'd be assuming a pushing bias from the person reporting it, or something really odd about that constituency. Not the NHS, cost of living, climate change, nothing?
I agree. I suspect she was finding what she wanted to find.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
I am old enough to remember when PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott was being laughed at by PB Tories for wearing two left ( or right) shoes and for being unable to count.
The "forced choice" option among the Undecideds who are likely to vote splits 46% Don't Know, 17% Conservative and 15% Labour so hard to say the DKs are breaking decisively for either of the two main parties (and this has been shown in other polls).
The baseline is Labour 33%, Conservative 18% - the YouGov split was 33-14 so there's the difference - the two sample sizes similar at just over 2000.
I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.
Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now. By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.
Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.
I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.
Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.
Hang on: when you say you are saving £5k per year, are you including *all* the costs?
Are you including the cost of the generator? Are you also recognizing that they do not last forever, and any money you spent on the generator could have been spent on a productive asset (i.e. money has a cost).
Diesel generators are also not maintenance free. And you will have downtime when it is not generating power; how do you plan on dealing with that?
Natural gas powered combined heating and power units - where you have your hot water as byproduct - are (a) massively more reliable (as you don't have particulate build-up over time), (b) are designed to run 24/7 and (c) may well be cheaper once you remember that you won't be paying anything additional for hot water or heating.
They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".
He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.
Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
Obviously that makes them unique
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.
Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
Anecdote is anecdote, obviously it has flaws. I don't really see how anecdotes about the internal machinations of a constituency party really relate to her electoral performance though, as someone could be a great MP (and as a backbencher for most of her career I'd assume she was pretty good) but not get on with local officials or colleagues - I know councillors who cannot stand their local MP who is of the same party as them for instance.
She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?
The last constituencies to elect a really nice and honourable MP were probably the rotten boroughs.
SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
I doubt there is a universal consensus about the correct balance between seeking to control things versus being too uninvolved to the point of laziness.
We shall soon find out.
A funny outcome would be some of the more self confident shadow cabinet members not getting into the Cabinet proper, or dumped in as NI Secretary or something (important, to be sure, but not the position people would hope for), as Keir surprises them on the day.
Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.
Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.
From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
I'll quote the double down.
“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”
And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.
It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.
Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.
And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.
Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.
Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y
Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
Comments
By chasing the culture war cash, she's telling us that she doesn't think she can do that.
However a key difference between the cases is that we can specify what laws Donald Trump has broken, and on which dates too, with evidence that can be taken to court.
An alternative would be to say that he would be suspended *after* the election while an investigation took place.
Edit - unless they can find a placeholder? But I suspect at this stage even if Starmer isn't playing silly buggers an NEC imposition is the only route fast enough.
Not picking a political fight, just genuinely interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.
And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.
Obviousy the base level of top athletes is still there with any disparity between sexes, but it seems more achievable.
Guardianistas try and deny this, and lecture the rest of us, whilst going the full Opus Dei on the self-flagellation when they can't resist.
It's silly.
The labour left are really gormless mugs. They just want everyone to be friends and sit around the campfire singing Kumbayah.
The labour right are ruthless.
It is, putting it simply, malicious allegations put around for the purposes of political smear.
But, as the Tories want us all to consider MPs tax arrangements, shall we all remember Nadim "I'll Sue You" Zahawi?
I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
https://x.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1795832705265135975?s=61
She herself has been subjected to horrendous racist abuse over the years and she struggles to accept that other ethnicities have been abused in similar, sometimes worse, ways.
What do you call someone who is in a protest movement with Tommy Robinson?
Keir fear is REALLY rampant here!
For the 2-cents or less it's worth, my own take is that Starmer GAINS by pumping as much bilge off his barge as possible. Both by lightening Labour's boat AND by demonstrating that he's tough enough to do it.
What a fictional PM used to call, "giving 'em a bit of stick". Which is a quality that voters appreciate, at least in moderation. And Keir Starmer is doing it moderately, at least in one way anyway.
Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.
Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.
I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.
Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.
So yes, lets do James Daly. A man so strong in his convictions that he refused to make them in public because either he didn't understand what the whips had told him to tell the police, or because he did know, and knew they were defamatory if repeated because they were totally baseless.
Happily we won't hear from him again after 5th July.
Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.
I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.
(to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
And another one. Purge baby purge
Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
Dalmatia doesn’t count
https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61
The people crying on behalf of Abbott couldn't give a shiny one to see the back of the Conservatives.
But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
If the official Labour candidate Fazia Shaheen (who also stood last time for Labour and has a big following in the left of Labour) has been suspended and stands as an Independent against whoever replaces her as Labour candidate IDS has just gone from a 1% chance of victory to a near 50% chance of victory even on current polls as the Labour vote in Chingford and Woodford Green would split in 2
Fight is on
Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/
The list is as bad as the dodgy dossier of PPE suppliers that Labour declared the government must use ASAP during COVID.
So it could well be the case that the Times' leaker was actually just repeating something they'd heard from Abbott.
It's all a bit circular, and feels a bit like the actions of someone determined to be upset come what may.
(That's not to say that the party shouldn't have tried harder to keep her happy, of course - but Abbott isn't just an innocent victim in this mess)
LAB: 44% (+1)
CON: 27% (+1)
LDM: 10% (=)
RFM: 8% (-1)
GRN: 4% (-1)
SNP: 3% (=)
Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
Changes w/ 17-19 May.
Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.
SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
And that applies to any faction of the party, even though it's most common on the far-left.
There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.
That was part of Corbyn's problem apparently - a nice enough man to his colleagues, but not really well known or supported, so leading the party was very hard, lacking those personal relationships.
Abbott is not seeking to lead the party, and it may be that if Keir is pushing out factional opponents he is making the wrong call, but if there is not a fuss in the party, I'd be curious why that is.
Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
https://news.sky.com/story/ex-chancellors-and-churchills-grandson-the-21-tories-sacked-for-defying-boris-johnson-over-brexit-11801765
Pretty good actually.
https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61
Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.
A 14 point lead and solid labour majority not enough for you?
Corbyn
Abbott
Shaheen
Russell-Moyle
Begum
Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?
But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.
And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?
She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?
I was not here then.
Looking at the More In Common data.
The "forced choice" option among the Undecideds who are likely to vote splits 46% Don't Know, 17% Conservative and 15% Labour so hard to say the DKs are breaking decisively for either of the two main parties (and this has been shown in other polls).
The baseline is Labour 33%, Conservative 18% - the YouGov split was 33-14 so there's the difference - the two sample sizes similar at just over 2000.
Are you including the cost of the generator? Are you also recognizing that they do not last forever, and any money you spent on the generator could have been spent on a productive asset (i.e. money has a cost).
Diesel generators are also not maintenance free. And you will have downtime when it is not generating power; how do you plan on dealing with that?
Natural gas powered combined heating and power units - where you have your hot water as byproduct - are (a) massively more reliable (as you don't have particulate build-up over time), (b) are designed to run 24/7 and (c) may well be cheaper once you remember that you won't be paying anything additional for hot water or heating.
He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.
We shall soon find out.
A funny outcome would be some of the more self confident shadow cabinet members not getting into the Cabinet proper, or dumped in as NI Secretary or something (important, to be sure, but not the position people would hope for), as Keir surprises them on the day.