One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?

Gardenwalker said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?

Can't say I've ever gotten that impression.

Omnium said:

DavidL said:

Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever.
Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.

Edit. Now 101.

As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.

I think there is so much power in batting these days. Sixes over 100m are becoming increasingly common. Not sure that any woman will have that level of power. Also. no female batsman is used to dealing with a 90mph bowler coming at their throat. I think a non fast bowler is a much better bet.

Roger said:

biggles said:

Roger said:

OT. Some iconic shots. '30 images that changed the way we see women'

'https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/18/38-images-that-changed-the-way-we-see-women-for-better-and-for-worse-photography

Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.

Lots.....Just none iconic

But what’s the criteria here? The photo or the event?

Not picking a political fight, just genuinely interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.

Gardenwalker said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?

Err, nope.

And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.

Taz said:

Casino_Royale said:

eek said:

DougSeal said:

Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.

And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...

I have no issue with Angela Rayner's background, upbringing, sex or her (rather good) dancing to 90s Old Skool anthems.

I do have an issue with her politics and her way of personalising politics.

Angela Rayner is the right type of working class person for the middle classes. It’s the Essex white van man or northern brexiteer types they have disdain for but they can use the likes of Rayner to say, I’m not anti working class I like Angela Rayner.

Plenty of us are working class. Some, like Rayner, use it as a badge of honour and a political tool and the posh boys lap it up.

Exactly so.

wooliedyed said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Gardenwalker said:

The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...

Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then

I suspect that wouldn’t rear its head until after the election.

The labour left are really gormless mugs. They just want everyone to be friends and sit around the campfire singing Kumbayah.

The labour right are ruthless.

Sean_F said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

Saying someone is too ugly to be raped is a disgusting “joke.”

Vile.

Nigel_Foremain said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!

yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!

Well, the police, the council and HMRC have all looked at her - repeatedly in the case of the police - and found nothing wrong.

It is, putting it simply, malicious allegations put around for the purposes of political smear.

But, as the Tories want us all to consider MPs tax arrangements, shall we all remember Nadim "I'll Sue You" Zahawi?

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

biggles said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.

It's preaching to the converted to the most part. 180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute. Even if only 0.1% of that is political that's 10 times how much as you can watch even if you did so 24 hours per day. So people are going to more attracted to stuff that strokes their feelings. How many people are really going to watch Vaush and Lotus Eaters, I suspect not many.

Diane is at the Diane protest outside the Diane Abbott Hackney Town Hall as we speak.

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?

Err, nope.

And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.

I’m not using a label for someone I disagree with. I’m using a label for someone who is far right and embraces conspiracy theories.

What do you call someone who is in a protest movement with Tommy Robinson?

I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.

Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.

I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

DM_Andy said:

bondegezou said:

Sandpit said:

Gardenwalker said:

Sandpit said:

DM_Andy said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

Taz said:

williamglenn said:

Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

File under "who gives a shit"

Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.

I'll quote the double down.

“There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.

By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.

The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?

From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?

I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.

Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?

No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM

You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.

wooliedyed said:

https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=19

And another one. Purge baby purge

The NEC thanking Rishi for the unexpected GE giving them carte blanche to move fast in the urgent situation.

kle4 said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.

Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.

I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.

I think the introduction of STV as in Ireland and Scottish local elections would be perfect, if you want more seats you have to be transfer friendly as well as reduce the chance of an overwhelming majority on only 40% of the vote.

Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.

She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?

Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
Fight is on

Cookie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

Just saying...

StepMUM. She isn't American!

Ah, I thought "Stepmum" was the term you used for people who... aren't in videos. While "Stepmom" is for... performers.

Mexicanpete said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.

It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.

Obviously that makes them unique

Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?

Sean_F said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
(to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.

She's all yours. Would you vote for her? I wouldn't.

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.

She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?

Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?

I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

And it seems that the person who told the Times that she'd been binned did so after Abbott herself told the BBC that she'd been barred (based on, it appears, on absolutely no concrete information).

So it could well be the case that the Times' leaker was actually just repeating something they'd heard from Abbott.

It's all a bit circular, and feels a bit like the actions of someone determined to be upset come what may.

(That's not to say that the party shouldn't have tried harder to keep her happy, of course - but Abbott isn't just an innocent victim in this mess)

kle4 said:

wooliedyed said:

Gardenwalker said:

The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!

But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!

Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.

Benpointer said:

Is the Trump jury expected to pend several days deliberating, or will they wrap it up today?

Why don't you ask them? The thing about jury trial is nobody knows what the jury is thinking once it goes into the jury room to deliberate on its verdict, even the judge and defendant and counsel

ToryJim said:

Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?

HYUFD said:

wooliedyed said:

Diane is standing, 'by whatever means necessary'

Another Corbynite v Starmerite battle then in Hackney, this is unnecessary from Starmer, even Blair kept Tony Benn, Abbott and Skinner and Corbyn as Labour candidates

Blair was in a slightly different situation in that the left had been put back in their box over nearly a decade and a half. Starmer has to deal with a left that is stronger and less completely discredited than Blair had to handle. He might be over doing things but he probably feels the need to assert the amount of change. Blair largely took the credit for Kinnocks heavy lifting.

rcs1000 said:

kle4 said:

wooliedyed said:

Gardenwalker said:

The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!

But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!

Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.

There's definitely something for me, there, with SKS in punishing those who go against him.

And that applies to any faction of the party, even though it's most common on the far-left.

Taz said:

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.

She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?

Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?

I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.

That's a separate if possibly tangential issue - whether the party is as inclusive of internal factions as it should be - to whether as an individual someone has support from colleagues.

That was part of Corbyn's problem apparently - a nice enough man to his colleagues, but not really well known or supported, so leading the party was very hard, lacking those personal relationships.

Abbott is not seeking to lead the party, and it may be that if Keir is pushing out factional opponents he is making the wrong call, but if there is not a fuss in the party, I'd be curious why that is.

FF43 said:

CarlottaVance said:

I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.

We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.

That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.

I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.

The main thing this story shows Starmer is ruthless. Abbott's sacking was botched almost certainly by an aide, not by Starmer himself.

There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.

Almost certainly by an aide?

Taz said:

ToryJim said:

Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

People can care about foreign affairs, but if that is the number one issue on the doorstep in a constituency I'd be assuming a pushing bias from the person reporting it, or something really odd about that constituency. Not the NHS, cost of living, climate change, nothing?

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 44% (+1)
CON: 27% (+1)
LDM: 10% (=)
RFM: 8% (-1)
GRN: 4% (-1)
SNP: 3% (=)

Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
Changes w/ 17-19 May.

Looks more realistic but with 3 points down on Labour and on the LDs.

So realistic but wrong. Right, got it.

rcs1000 said:

kle4 said:

wooliedyed said:

Gardenwalker said:

The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!

But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!

Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.

Funnily enough Clare Short of Blairs cabinet called him a Stalinist today and pledged for the Greens

wooliedyed said:

rcs1000 said:

kle4 said:

wooliedyed said:

Gardenwalker said:

The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!

But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!

Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.

Funnily enough Clare Short of Blairs cabinet called him a Stalinist today and pledged for the Greens

I think that a pretty net positive for Starmer .

Lol, Rob Roberts running as an indy. Dirty sod

ToryJim said:

Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

So its a tweet complaining about the use of puberty blockers, not going on some hate filled rant about the Jews (that is allowed in the Green party).

Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

Corbyn
Abbott
Shaheen
Russell-Moyle
Begum

Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

AlsoLei said:

wooliedyed said:

Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
Fight is on

So Abbott has decided to force the decision.

Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.

Whilst it will make no overall difference it will lose labour more votes outside Hackney than she costs them there. A lot of anger bubbling up over it. They are fortunate to be 20 clear

Mexicanpete said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.

She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.

It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.

Obviously that makes them unique

Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?

I am old enough to remember when PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott was being laughed at by PB Tories for wearing two left ( or right) shoes and for being unable to count.

So what ?

I was not here then.

theProle said:

I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.

Hang on: when you say you are saving £5k per year, are you including *all* the costs?

Are you including the cost of the generator? Are you also recognizing that they do not last forever, and any money you spent on the generator could have been spent on a productive asset (i.e. money has a cost).

Diesel generators are also not maintenance free. And you will have downtime when it is not generating power; how do you plan on dealing with that?

Natural gas powered combined heating and power units - where you have your hot water as byproduct - are (a) massively more reliable (as you don't have particulate build-up over time), (b) are designed to run 24/7 and (c) may well be cheaper once you remember that you won't be paying anything additional for hot water or heating.

They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

Taz said:

ToryJim said:

Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?

I doubt there is a universal consensus about the correct balance between seeking to control things versus being too uninvolved to the point of laziness.

We shall soon find out.

A funny outcome would be some of the more self confident shadow cabinet members not getting into the Cabinet proper, or dumped in as NI Secretary or something (important, to be sure, but not the position people would hope for), as Keir surprises them on the day.