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Beware the Bookie rules before betting on a GE2024 overall majority – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    edited February 15

    I know that Americans often have idle discussions about how they might split their country up, but do they ever have idle discussions about adding other countries as new States?

    Just wondering whether the light-hearted interest in the UK joining the US is reciprocated?

    They won't even admit part of their own country (Puerto Rico) as a state as it would alter the balance of Congress, let alone add other countries.
    Yes, but they at least talk about adding Puerto Rico as a State. And there are various more-or-less whimsical suggestions of dividing the country between red and blue states.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,640
    I very much doubt Labour will drop below 40% in Rochdale.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...
    So you're only fairly close to Fairey Close ?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,662

    The Northern Line? Separate them! Since the Battersea branch was added its already (mostly) operationally separate at that end. Run Battersea - Edgware as one line, and Morden to High Barnet as the other line. Expensive and complex junctions at Camden Town are largely left with the lines separate, interchanges at Camden sub-surface, done.

    Battersea line for the western half, City line for the eastern half.

    I believe that something along these lines is being planned, to allow for a more frequent and reliable service. Hopefully they can rename one of the branches the Franz Fanon Black Lives Matter Intersectional Feminism Line for maximum lolz.
  • viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited February 15

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    The names are naff, but which are negative? They're all positive.
    What really annoys me is the changing of old names to sanitise them. There's such stuff as Titmouse and Gropecunt Lanes in Oxford, which I suppose needed i t, but the incomers mocing to Trotter Haugh in Edinburgh whined about it some years back. Yet Trotter wass an important local l andowner and a haugh a flat riverside piece of land. They wanted it changed but the street name is still there. Ignoran t folk - all they could think about was Del Boy & co.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325

    The new Tube map.

    They need to sort out the Northern lines next – five lines masquerading as one, for reasons unknown.

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-with-the-new-lo-names.pdf

    Reasons are pretty well known for that one. If you want to properly split the Northern Line, it needs to be easy for lots of people to change trains at Camden Town. That's expensive, and commercial development atop the site has been Nimbied out.

    Full story here:

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/we-need-to-talk-about-camden/
    Would you have to change the rules of Mornington Crescent?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    .

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Stay, it gives Mike great joy that the site is still vibrant as we approach PB’s 20th birthday next month and 2024 is going to be the best year for political betting with potentially a presidential election and Uk general election within days of each other.
    Although I can't remember what it stands for, he will always be OGH.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited February 15
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Stay, it gives Mike great joy that the site is still vibrant as we approach PB’s 20th birthday next month and 2024 is going to be the best year for political betting with potentially a presidential election and Uk general election within days of each other.
    Although I can't remember what it stands for, he will always be OGH.
    [deleted as corrected by LP]
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,640

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    His delivery record is good:

    • Night Tube
    • Crossrail
    • Ulez
    • Ulez-X

    But, his railway-naming skills leave a lot to be desired.
    His contribution to the delivery of Crossrail is that he just happened to be in office when Crossrail opened.
    That was Boris's contribution to the Boris bikes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,120
    edited February 15

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Obviously it's a personal decision for you, but I'm sure Mike would prefer it if you stayed.

    I'm sure Mike will be taking much comfort in the coming days, weeks, months and years, knowing that his personal creation and the community he built up continues to thrive.

    Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    I know that Americans often have idle discussions about how they might split their country up, but do they ever have idle discussions about adding other countries as new States?

    Just wondering whether the light-hearted interest in the UK joining the US is reciprocated?

    They won't even admit part of their own country (Puerto Rico) as a state as it would alter the balance of Congress, let alone add other countries.
    Yes, but they at least talk about adding Puerto Rico as a State. And there are various more-or-less whimsical suggestions of dividing the country between red and blue states.
    Um, given Trumps plan to send Red State National Guard into Blue States to flush out the migrants and deport them, I wouldn't be too sure about the "whimsical" bit.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506

    I very much doubt Labour will drop below 40% in Rochdale.

    I think they will drop below 40%, because there are so many other plausible candidates.
    But I think they will win comfortably. A combination of people who have already voted, people who agree with Azhar Ali, people who don't care, and people who have paid the whole kerfuffle little attention.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...
    So you're only fairly close to Fairey Close ?
    And it should be Blackburd anyway.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Blackburd
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Stay, it gives Mike great joy that the site is still vibrant as we approach PB’s 20th birthday next month and 2024 is going to be the best year for political betting with potentially a presidential election and Uk general election within days of each other.
    Although I can't remember what it stands for, he will always be OGH.
    Our GRacious Host.
    Our Genial Host.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    Also - very hard to measure UK food inflation, given the concealed but pervasive reduction of quantity and/or quality.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    ...
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Stay, it gives Mike great joy that the site is still vibrant as we approach PB’s 20th birthday next month and 2024 is going to be the best year for political betting with potentially a presidential election and Uk general election within days of each other.
    Although I can't remember what it stands for, he will always be OGH.
    Our GRacious Host.
    Always assume Genial, a bit like Genial Harry Grout in Poridge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Still trying to come to terms with the sad news about Mike.

    My first post was on the first anniversary of the Site's formation. It has been a big part of my life ever since. For a decade or so it helped keep me solvent and it has always been a great source of fun and enlightenment. Over the years I got to know Mike well enough to make me wonder now whether it might be time for me to take my coat. To stay feels a bit like lingering at a party after the host has had to retire to bed unwell. He wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but somehow it doesn't feel right to keep posting away while OGH and My Good Friend is incapacitated.

    I'll think it over but you'll understand if I go a bit quiet. If any of you have views on the matter that you'd like to share privately, you know where to find me.

    Atb.

    PtP

    Stay, it gives Mike great joy that the site is still vibrant as we approach PB’s 20th birthday next month and 2024 is going to be the best year for political betting with potentially a presidential election and Uk general election within days of each other.
    Although I can't remember what it stands for, he will always be OGH.
    Our GRacious Host.
    Our Genial Host.
    Ah, thanks! Even better.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    The names are naff, but which are negative? They're all positive.
    What really annoys me is the changing of old names to sanitise them. There's such stuff as Titmouse and Gropecunt Lanes in Oxford, which I suppose needed i t, but the incomers mocing to Trotter Haugh in Edinburgh whined about it some years back. Yet Trotter wass an important local l andowner and a haugh a flat riverside piece of land. They wanted it changed but the street name is still there. Ignoran t folk - all they could think about was Del Boy & co.
    Sorry mods - please censor the text. Completely overlooked it in a compound word. Apologies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    What's negative about the new names? Unless yhou think votes for women are bad, and you can't possibly mean that. Liberty is nice and historical, so are some of the others.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,699
    edited February 15
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,640
    Cookie said:

    I very much doubt Labour will drop below 40% in Rochdale.

    I think they will drop below 40%, because there are so many other plausible candidates.
    But I think they will win comfortably. A combination of people who have already voted, people who agree with Azhar Ali, people who don't care, and people who have paid the whole kerfuffle little attention.
    Labour above or below 40% in Rochdale: I say above, you say below, loser donates £5 to Alzheimer's Research UK?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    Taz said:

    I'd propose

    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Cushing Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    Shouldn't that be
    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    • The McCoy Line
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325

    The window between Starmer gaining an overall majority and Starmer gaining an effective majority is only the SF and/or SDLP MPs. It is unlikely to come into play but far from impossible. I suspect it is at the very limit of Con possibilities but it is worth keeping in mind

    The possibilities are fascinating, and if the polls narrow (they will) it will be endless discussion.

    To be simplistic and over simplify, per impossibile, Labour gain only 45 seats, all at the expense of the Tories, and LD gain 10, ditto. Labour then have only 247 seats, 79 short of a mathematical/bookies majority but Tories have 310 (16 short). The Tories, SFAICS, cannot form a government; Labour (with rainbow) can and will.
  • As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Chapeau @BartholomewRoberts
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Labour will win Rochdale.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,843

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    edited February 15
    algarkirk said:

    The window between Starmer gaining an overall majority and Starmer gaining an effective majority is only the SF and/or SDLP MPs. It is unlikely to come into play but far from impossible. I suspect it is at the very limit of Con possibilities but it is worth keeping in mind

    The possibilities are fascinating, and if the polls narrow (they will) it will be endless discussion.

    To be simplistic and over simplify, per impossibile, Labour gain only 45 seats, all at the expense of the Tories, and LD gain 10, ditto. Labour then have only 247 seats, 79 short of a mathematical/bookies majority but Tories have 310 (16 short). The Tories, SFAICS, cannot form a government; Labour (with rainbow) can and will.
    I would doubt that a rainbow coalition would be formed. I'd expect the Tories to continue as a weak minority government for a while before calling another election on the basis that Labour couldn't form a government and the voters should give the Tories a majority.
  • kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Its turned a divide into a chasm between the real experiences of those who have to pay for the roof over their head, and those who don't.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...
    So you're only fairly close to Fairey Close ?
    A battle to get to it though.
  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 143
    edited February 15
    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Muffin the Mule Line
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    It really does baffle me, that people think that anything but a comfortable Labour Majority is possible at this point.

    I say this as a Tory who would love Sunak to pull something out the bag, but if you offered me 200 Tory seats at the next election I'd bite your hand off.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    I'd propose

    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Cushing Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    Shouldn't that be
    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    • The McCoy Line
    Or now:
    The Eccleston line
    The Tenant line
    The Smith line
    The Whittaker line
    The Tenant line
    The Gatwa Line
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    edited February 15

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...
    So you're only fairly close to Fairey Close ?
    A battle to get to it though.
    Now that's an aircraft not much better than the AI ones.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 779
    Surely the generation-spanning choices should be:

    Buffy Line
    Xander Line
    Willow Line
    Cordelia Line
    Giles Line
    (Cant have the Angel Line, so) Spike Line
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    I'd propose

    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Cushing Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    Shouldn't that be
    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    • The McCoy Line
    It kinda depends on whether its actors playing the Doctor/Doctor Who, or just those playing him on TV, as the two films with Cushing predated Troughton.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284

    algarkirk said:

    The window between Starmer gaining an overall majority and Starmer gaining an effective majority is only the SF and/or SDLP MPs. It is unlikely to come into play but far from impossible. I suspect it is at the very limit of Con possibilities but it is worth keeping in mind

    The possibilities are fascinating, and if the polls narrow (they will) it will be endless discussion.

    To be simplistic and over simplify, per impossibile, Labour gain only 45 seats, all at the expense of the Tories, and LD gain 10, ditto. Labour then have only 247 seats, 79 short of a mathematical/bookies majority but Tories have 310 (16 short). The Tories, SFAICS, cannot form a government; Labour (with rainbow) can and will.
    I would doubt that a rainbow coalition would be formed. I'd expect the Tories to continue as a weak minority government for a while before calling another election on the basis that Labour couldn't form a government and the voters should give the Tories a majority.
    That only just worked when Harold Wilson tried it in 1974, and before long he needed the support of David Steel and the Liberals.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...
    So you're only fairly close to Fairey Close ?
    A battle to get to it though.
    Now that's an aircraft not much better than the AI ones.
    Obligatory reminder that a fantastic engine (the Merlin) does not necessarily make a fantastic aircraft.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited February 15

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    The way things are going in Spain, fresh tomatoes and red peppers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/15/spain-water-barcelona-farmers-tourism-catalonia-drought
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    a
    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    The names are naff, but which are negative? They're all positive.
    What really annoys me is the changing of old names to sanitise them. There's such stuff as Titmouse and Gropecunt Lanes in Oxford, which I suppose needed i t, but the incomers mocing to Trotter Haugh in Edinburgh whined about it some years back. Yet Trotter wass an important local l andowner and a haugh a flat riverside piece of land. They wanted it changed but the street name is still there. Ignoran t folk - all they could think about was Del Boy & co.
    I totally agree. Being from Derby, I think our nearest neighbour should still be called 'Snottingham' ...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,583

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,699
    edited February 15

    Surely the generation-spanning choices should be:

    Buffy Line
    Xander Line
    Willow Line
    Cordelia Line
    Giles Line
    (Cant have the Angel Line, so) Spike Line

    We have a winner.

    Since there's six lines you could also go for:

    Ross Line
    Rachel Line
    Chandler Line
    Monica Line
    Joey Line
    Phoebe Line
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325

    Surely the generation-spanning choices should be:

    Buffy Line
    Xander Line
    Willow Line
    Cordelia Line
    Giles Line
    (Cant have the Angel Line, so) Spike Line

    Coke Line
    County Line
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,572
    isam said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    They are all pretty naff, aren't they?

    I would have gone for geographical names, so the Forest line for the Chingford branch (which ends at Epping Forest), the Thames line for the Richmond branch and so on...
    I agree, they are much better
    What about the Nimby Line running towards the North West?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Surely the generation-spanning choices should be:

    Buffy Line
    Xander Line
    Willow Line
    Cordelia Line
    Giles Line
    (Cant have the Angel Line, so) Spike Line

    Or just plain Lines for the City/Canary Wharf.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,583
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Chat GPT just helped me: Can you create for me five very woke names for railways?

    ChatGPT
    Sure, here are five "woke" names for railways:

    1. Unity Line
    2. Harmony Express
    3. Diversity Junction
    4. Inclusion Railway
    5. Equity Route

    In Rainham, Essex there was a notorious council estate called The Mardyke, and when it was knocked down, the streets that replaced it had names like that
    There are plenty of people who think precisely like this.
    We have a couple of Harry Potter inspired street names near us, as our part of the town was built at the height of the books' popularity. Later sections are named after airplanes and manufacturers, as they're nearer the old Bourn airfield. Vickers way, York Road, Spitfire Road, Fairey Close, Blackbird Road etc.

    Better names and themes than Khan's monstrosities...

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    The names are naff, but which are negative? They're all positive.
    What really annoys me is the changing of old names to sanitise them. There's such stuff as Titmouse and Gropecunt Lanes in Oxford, which I suppose needed i t, but the incomers mocing to Trotter Haugh in Edinburgh whined about it some years back. Yet Trotter wass an important local l andowner and a haugh a flat riverside piece of land. They wanted it changed but the street name is still there. Ignoran t folk - all they could think about was Del Boy & co.
    There's a Cut Throat Lane in (I believe) OKC's neck of the woods. Although a local historian claims that's a corruption of Cut Athwart Lane. In which case the reverse of sanitation seems to have happened over time.
  • Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    As long as we don't have a Henry Line.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    As long as we don't have a Henry Line.
    Eh?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    I'd propose

    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Cushing Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    Shouldn't that be
    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    • The McCoy Line
    Or now:
    The Eccleston line
    The Tenant line
    The Smith line
    The Whittaker line
    The Tenant line
    The Gatwa Line
    Peter Capaldi retconned already? Harsh.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Muffin the Mule Line

    The Clangers are busy

    @mitchprothero

    If you’ve ever built or detonated a space nuke, I’d love to talk about it for a @VICENews story that I’m apparently working on. My DMs are as open as my mind.

    @petersbeaumont1

    I’m working on a defensive space drone that is code named Clanger.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284
    On Canvey Island many of the older roads have Dutch names in tribute to the original drainers and reclaimers of the land, and builders of the first sea-wall.
    Thus Haarlem Rd., Van Diemanns Pass, Syderveldt Road, and many more.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Parody Rishi Sunak
    @Parody_PM

    Please stop calling it a Rishession - it's not big and it's not clever.
    Bit like me really.
    #Rishession
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    83% of Labour voters think that Israel should stop the war and call an immediate ceasefire.

    ✅ Call a ceasefire: 83% (+6)
    ❌ Continue the war: 3% (-4)

    Despite this, Labour opposes a ceasefire.

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 12-13 Feb (+/- vs 16 Nov)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506

    Cookie said:

    I very much doubt Labour will drop below 40% in Rochdale.

    I think they will drop below 40%, because there are so many other plausible candidates.
    But I think they will win comfortably. A combination of people who have already voted, people who agree with Azhar Ali, people who don't care, and people who have paid the whole kerfuffle little attention.
    Labour above or below 40% in Rochdale: I say above, you say below, loser donates £5 to Alzheimer's Research UK?
    You're on!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,661
    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    I quite like the Wombles suggestion. Sadiq's choices are absolutely appalling. I could just about stomach Windrush and Liberty, although they seem daft, but the others are hopeless.

    Khan is going to regret this!




  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    As long as we don't have a Henry Line.
    Eh?
    He was bricked up in a tunnel for always and always and always. Which is a harsh response to the new Minimum Service Level laws.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    As long as we don't have a Henry Line.
    Eh?
    He was bricked up in a tunnel for always and always and always. Which is a harsh response to the new Minimum Service Level laws.
    Ah, thanks!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    I quite like the Wombles suggestion. Sadiq's choices are absolutely appalling. I could just about stomach Windrush and Liberty, although they seem daft, but the others are hopeless.

    Khan is going to regret this!




    I'm not sure Khan has the degree of self-reflection necessary to regret anything.

    I agree though. The Wombles suggestion would have been perfect. And the current choices are ridiculous.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,640
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I very much doubt Labour will drop below 40% in Rochdale.

    I think they will drop below 40%, because there are so many other plausible candidates.
    But I think they will win comfortably. A combination of people who have already voted, people who agree with Azhar Ali, people who don't care, and people who have paid the whole kerfuffle little attention.
    Labour above or below 40% in Rochdale: I say above, you say below, loser donates £5 to Alzheimer's Research UK?
    You're on!
    @Cookie Great. I will go away and look down the sofa in case I need it...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    Scott_xP said:

    Parody Rishi Sunak
    @Parody_PM

    Please stop calling it a Rishession - it's not big and it's not clever.
    Bit like me really.
    #Rishession

    Not that funny, and not really fair. He is clever, but completely lacks the ability to do politics.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325

    83% of Labour voters think that Israel should stop the war and call an immediate ceasefire.

    ✅ Call a ceasefire: 83% (+6)
    ❌ Continue the war: 3% (-4)

    Despite this, Labour opposes a ceasefire.

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 12-13 Feb (+/- vs 16 Nov)

    Oddly, SFAICS, this survey asks whether Israel should call a ceasefire but not whether Hamas should.

    BTW 15% of 18-24 think the massacre of 1000 men women and children by Hamas in October was 'justified'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    The trials of Trump.
    Only the best lawyers...

    Blanche: "We strenuously object to what's happened in this courtroom... it shouldn't happen in this country."

    Judge: "What's your legal argument at this point?"

    Blanche: "That *is* my legal argument."

    Judge: "That isn't a legal argument. I'll see you March 25."

    And... scene.

    https://twitter.com/Jose_Pagliery/status/1758161786459640153
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,304
    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    algarkirk said:

    83% of Labour voters think that Israel should stop the war and call an immediate ceasefire.

    ✅ Call a ceasefire: 83% (+6)
    ❌ Continue the war: 3% (-4)

    Despite this, Labour opposes a ceasefire.

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 12-13 Feb (+/- vs 16 Nov)

    Oddly, SFAICS, this survey asks whether Israel should call a ceasefire but not whether Hamas should.

    BTW 15% of 18-24 think the massacre of 1000 men women and children by Hamas in October was 'justified'.
    Someone sent me a link to a video a few days ago which characterised the October massacre as "fighting back", which I thought was a fairly sanitised description of a pogrom.

    It's by this use of language that such opinions are formed.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,073
    edited February 15

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
    Irrational pet hate - oat milk. Milk comes from mammals. Oat milk is not a milk, its a massively processed grain.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 15
    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really. Same goes for any Tory rebranding that costs a lot of public money, before we get too deep into whataboutery. Governments and councils always plead poverty, but find the money for stuff that no one really cares about
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,073

    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
    Irrational pet hate - oat milk. Milk comes from mammals. Oat milk is not a milk, its a massively processed grain.
    Sure, but you should try it regardless. You might be surprised.

    Jord is the best widely-available one I think. Though we have a local supplier which produces a sublime product.

    I'm not pushing it for green reasons - it's the taste.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    isam said:

    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really.

    Depends if it's part of a periodic cycle, though. And the system is so complex now that some similar naming is pretty much necessary - colour alone won't do, increasingly (even if one isn't colour blind).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973

    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
    Irrational pet hate - oat milk. Milk comes from mammals. Oat milk is not a milk, its a massively processed grain.
    Oat puree?
    Oat velouté?
    Oat juice?

    What do you think about milk of magnesia?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
    Irrational pet hate - oat milk. Milk comes from mammals. Oat milk is not a milk, its a massively processed grain.
    Is it that processed? A little rapeseed oil and a few fairly useful minerals and vitamins.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    FPT - Malmsbury's suggestion is an excellent one. Dementia research gets a fraction of the money that cancer research does and can potentially offer greater benefit (as many cancers already have good survival rates now)

    I'm not a scientist, but this is the big UK charity:
    https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org

    Actually Alzheimer's has seen quite a big increase in research in the last few years, since the first (albeit only marginally effective) therapies were approved.

    There's a US list of some of the clinical trials here:
    https://www.nia.nih.gov/research/ongoing-AD-trials


    A further note - Alzheimer's is far from the only cause of dementia, but the Alzheimer's charity funds other research, too.

    As noted here, for example:
    https://ukdri.ac.uk/about-us/to-donate
    If you would like to donate to the UK Dementia Research Institute, please do so via our charity partners: Alzheimer’s Society (0330 333 0804) and Alzheimer’s Research UK (0300 111 5555).

    When making a gift, please let the charities know that you would like your donation to be used for the UK Dementia Research Institute, and they will ensure that it is directed appropriately. Please note that both charities don't only focus on Alzheimer's disease, but fund research across the breadth of diseases that cause dementia.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,073
    Is 2.5 (bf) on Lab in Rochdale a good price? I was expecting odds-on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    That's like saying life is too short to not use instant coffee.
    Many of the gastroidiots on here think that.
    I've recently bought some rather nice coffee mugs from Loveramics.

    Sizes: flat white, cappuccino and latte.

    I have an excellent espresso machine - wouldn't touch instant now.

    I've acquired a taste for oat milk in coffee (50/50 with cows').
    Irrational pet hate - oat milk. Milk comes from mammals. Oat milk is not a milk, its a massively processed grain.
    In many countries “milk” is a protected term, and there’s been lots of arguments about it. Same with “meat”.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    isam said:

    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really. Same goes for any Tory rebranding that costs a lot of public money, before we get too deep into whataboutery. Governments and councils always plead poverty, but find the money for stuff that no one the current leader looking for their legacy really cares about

    FTFY :D
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,973
    isam said:

    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really. Same goes for any Tory rebranding that costs a lot of public money, before we get too deep into whataboutery. Governments and councils always plead poverty, but find the money for stuff that no one really cares about

    There are a lot of signs that will need changing.

    Leaving side the specific names chosen, having distinct identities for the separate lines should make using the network easier, so it's probably worth the expense.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    edited February 15
    Only just seen the previous thread. Best wishes to OGH and family.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139

    On Canvey Island many of the older roads have Dutch names in tribute to the original drainers and reclaimers of the land, and builders of the first sea-wall.
    Thus Haarlem Rd., Van Diemanns Pass, Syderveldt Road, and many more.

    Around here, there are various names around 'Adventurers', like Adventurers' Fen. AIUI named because the people who drained the land were 'adventuring' with their money. Maybe we should be 'PoliticalAdventurers' ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really. Same goes for any Tory rebranding that costs a lot of public money, before we get too deep into whataboutery. Governments and councils always plead poverty, but find the money for stuff that no one really cares about

    There are a lot of signs that will need changing.

    Leaving side the specific names chosen, having distinct identities for the separate lines should make using the network easier, so it's probably worth the expense.
    Maybe it was a common complaint that the Overground was hard to use, I haven’t used it much in years, but when I did, before it was branded the overground, it didn’t seem that difficult. The Suffragette line was called the North London Line for instance, easy enough
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FPT point of order it's the Lioness line not the Lionesses line.

    Which is slightly (but not much) better.

    Unless you're trying to pronounce it after a skinful. Come to think of it "I'm just jumping on a Suffragette" is probably going to get some traction amongst the lairy friday night out crowd.

    All in all the names have a vague "if Dave Spart ran a competition for the under 8s to name the lines, then miraculously picked the worst names out of a hat" feel to them.
    The London plan comes across as typical Sadiq being Sadiq, and looking for the sort of names that will offend people who don’t like him, further cementing societal division.

    If you’re going to give out random names then auction them off. Loads of cities, including mine, do this, the big money is for the destination and interchange stations, or companies buying the station nearest their own business.
    I don’t think Khan goes out of his way to cause division.
    I just think he’s a bit of a twit. His instincts are just off. Kind of a leftist Sunak.
    Perhaps, but, as someone who does disgreee with him on almost everything, it comes across as needlessly antagonistic. There’s plenty of London history that can be seen as positive for the city, rather than dwelling on negative history.
    What's negative about the new names? Unless yhou think votes for women are bad, and you can't possibly mean that. Liberty is nice and historical, so are some of the others.
    “Windrush” recalls when Amber Rudd resigned over a scandal, “Sufragettes” recalls a load of protestors, “Lioness” is for a *women’s* football team, rather than the 1966 squad.

    I stand by my original comment that it’s deliberately antagonistic. Stick with “Elizabeth Line” and similar, that have no political connotations.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    .

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    I take about 15 minutes to make a dish of pasta from scratch, which is pretty quick. I spend 10 seconds of that time grating parmesan. Life isn't that short.
  • Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I did think about other cultural icons and the Trumpton Firemen were the first to come to mind. I also considered:

    Clangers Line
    Bagpuss Line
    Magic Roundabout Line
    Andy Pandy Line
    Flowerpot Men Line
    Ivor the Train Line.
    Thomas Line
    Gordon Line
    James Line
    :
    :
    What! No Mavis, Annie or Clarabel?!
    I quite like the Wombles suggestion. Sadiq's choices are absolutely appalling. I could just about stomach Windrush and Liberty, although they seem daft, but the others are hopeless.

    Khan is going to regret this!




    I'm not sure Khan has the degree of self-reflection necessary to regret anything.

    I agree though. The Wombles suggestion would have been perfect. And the current choices are ridiculous.

    Wombles is a trademark. So that would not have been useable without paying royalties. The ones chosen are not exactly great, though.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    I'd propose

    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Cushing Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    Shouldn't that be
    • The Hartnell Line
    • The Troughton Line
    • The Pertwee Line
    • The Baker Line
    • The Davison Line
    • The McCoy Line
    Or now:
    The Eccleston line
    The Tenant line
    The Smith line
    The Whittaker line
    The Tenant line
    The Gatwa Line
    Don't expect the Whittaker line to be running....
  • I have just seen what Cookie and Bondegezou have been getting up to down-thread. Great idea! In the same spirit I've got a tenner that says the Liberal Democrat will win in Rochdale on 29 February - any takers at evens? Loser to pay a tenner to Alzheimer's Research UK. Come on, who'se feeling lucky?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,030
    mwadams said:

    As it's not the Underground but it is the Overground...

    Great Uncle Bulgaria Line
    Tobermory Line
    Tomsk Line
    Orinoco Line
    Wellington Line
    Madam Cholet Line

    Anyone who wants to study the movement of large numbers of people could then examine the Orinoco flow.
    Have we done

    Pugh
    Pugh
    Barney McGrew
    Cuthbert
    Dibble
    Grubb

    I rather like naming 2 of them the same. It is in keeping with the generally baffling routing.
    I disagree.

    For maximum bafflement we should got for the Pugh line and the Pew line
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,468
    FF43 said:

    .

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    PART THREE

    ...Now when the Johnson Administration in Britain came over to talk to Donald
    Trump's Administration about a trade deal and they found out what the
    conditions would be they walked away. And then the next government came in and did the same thing and walked away (or was it Teresa May?). Anyway there were two back-to-back and so the Brits right now are in this nether world where they kind of quietly admit to themselves that, in order to find a future that has some degree of economic functionality, they have to get into bed with their kids and accept all the demands and the hit to their economy will be real and the hit
    to their ego will be massive...


    ...But the alternatives (trying to build an alternate system or maybe going back to the EU) neither of those are long-term solutions that are very functional, so really what we're doing is going through the paces until the Brits admit the obvious, and when that happens Britain will lose the thing that it values the most: its freedom to act, its agency. It will become a subsidiary of the American system for Better or For Worse and while that will be horrible for the British mindset it is the best game in town from both an economic and a security point of view and in time I have no doubt that that is where the Brits will end up, so stiff upper lip...

    I'm not sure I share all this guy's analysis, but I do share his conclusion. The only real alternative to the UK being part of the EU is being much more closely aligned with the US, perhaps even as the 51st or 51st-53rd states.
    And that’s why the right pushed so hard for Brexit, and told their fantastical lies to make it happen. They would rather have a small state, low tax, highly unequal UK, with a crumbling public realm and services, rather than EU-style worker protections, environmental protections, etc, etc, etc.

    So they whipped up an immigration panic and promised unicorns for all to get just enough people to shoot themselves in the foot.
    The idea that EU regulation resulted in higher consumer prices - a shibboleth of Euroscepticism since the early 90s - turned out to be total junk as well.

    Witness food prices.
    And yet we still get squealing and whining that farmers may face competition from the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Why isn't affordable Aussie and Kiwi good enough for us without any tariffs?
    The net impact so far is that prices are up (even net of the broader inflation issues), and choice is down.
    It’s possible, though I defer to Nick Palmer, that welfare standards are expected to decline too.
    I'd like to see any evidence whatsoever that prices are up in the UK compared to other countries net of broader inflation issues. Or that choice is down similarly.

    Food inflation has been seen across the globe, so I'm sceptical.

    There's nothing wrong with animal welfare in New Zealand etc, I'd be quite delighted to see non-tariff barriers that are falsely portrayed as "welfare" issues to be abolished.
    First of many results on Google.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-blame-third-britains-food-bill-rise-researchers-say-2023-05-25/
    Counter-example: https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/11/21/real-food-inflation-in-europe-which-countries-are-hit-the-hardest

    The UK has lower real food inflation than the Euro Area.
    Um: stupid question: what's real inflation?

    I know what prices are. Shoes used to cost £X
    I know what inflated prices are. Shoes now cost £2X
    I know what real prices are. Shoes in real terms cost £2X/(1+inflation rate)
    But I don't know what real inflation is.
    Can you give me an example?
    The real inflation that X as opposed to Y else now costs more than it would have in real currency.

    A prime example would be houses. House price inflation has outstripped inflation for decades, so houses now cost more in real terms than they would.

    While a counter-example of real deflation is often technology goods. If you would spend £1000 in 2000 on a computer, but could get one for about £300 today, in real terms that's declined in cost by much more than 70% because £1000 in 2000 money is more than £1000 today.
    Indeed. And we're all told inflation has been low for the past two decades, because the price of flatscreen tellys and fast fashion has cratered. Meanwhile, the cost of keeping a roof over your head has skyrocketed to the point where absolutely nobody feels any richer despite every home having a massive flatscreen telly. See also: energy prices, childcare prices, almost all the basics you actually need to live a half decent life, etc.
    Olive oil.
    Grated parmesan
    How about ungrated parmesan? Has inflation been for the grater good?
    Life is too short to grate your own parmesan
    I take about 15 minutes to make a dish of pasta from scratch, which is pretty quick. I spend 10 seconds of that time grating parmesan. Life isn't that short.
    Worth getting a small easy to wash grater though. Washing up a box grater just for that is tiresome.

    Commiserations to Mike. Hope it's as good as it can be.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    The rebranding of the London Overground is reported to have cost £6.3m. Is this true? If so it seems ludicrous really. Same goes for any Tory rebranding that costs a lot of public money, before we get too deep into whataboutery. Governments and councils always plead poverty, but find the money for stuff that no one really cares about

    There are a lot of signs that will need changing.

    Leaving side the specific names chosen, having distinct identities for the separate lines should make using the network easier, so it's probably worth the expense.
    Maybe it was a common complaint that the Overground was hard to use, I haven’t used it much in years, but when I did, before it was branded the overground, it didn’t seem that difficult. The Suffragette line was called the North London Line for instance, easy enough

    The suffragette line is just a stupid name - it's too long. It will become the Suffer Line, which is pretty much what the North London Line was whenever I used it.

This discussion has been closed.