Today’s front pages – politicalbetting.com

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

kinabalu said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.

Malmesbury said:

Eabhal said:

Brompton, of the cool folding bicycle and Great British success story (loads of them exported out here to Melbourne, for example) have plans for an ambitious new factory in Kent.

4,000 jobs. A 60 acre nature reserve. 200,000 bikes a year. Actual manufacturing investment in the UK!

BUT NO.

National Highways, for the fourth time in a row, have opposed the plans, delaying the approval process. All because Brompton want their staff to commute by bicycle, rather than by car.

If anyone wants to understand why the UK will struggle to mitigate climate change, has chronic congestion problems, zero productivity growth and a dearth of investment, see the above.

Process. Probably they don't promote ZEVs enough, therefore computer says no.

On the subject of Brompton - they have a very good hire scheme (small but growing) https://bromptonhire.com/our-locations/. Mostly railway stations.

Quite a few times now, on the days with better weather, I've seen people taking them on trains out to the countryside. A number of times, it's a couple with one person with an owned Brompton (work) and the other hiring one for the day.

Well worth a look.

bigjohnowls said:

On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

Huge boost to my Party

RochdalePioneers said:

There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

Eabhal said:

Another transport thing.

Amazing visualisation of just how rubbish the train network is outside London: https://x.com/Coneee/status/1755500503985750445?s=20

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

Roger said:

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

Alanbrooke said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pulpstar said:

rcs1000 said:

StillWaters said:

With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

* Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
* Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
* 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
* To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.

We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !

But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.

Stick him on a train to Dublin.

Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?

Because he broke the rules

Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

I don't think many feel that anymore

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

Pulpstar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

Partially, there's a £400m underspend on the dentistry budget though - the system isn't worth it for dentists for new patients with bad teeth and gums. The unit system needs radically overhauling, yesterday.

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

Alanbrooke said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pulpstar said:

rcs1000 said:

StillWaters said:

With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

* Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
* Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
* 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
* To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.

We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !

But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.

Stick him on a train to Dublin.

Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?

Because he broke the rules

Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

I don't think many feel that anymore

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

When did casino go?

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.

But if you change channel (to the only other channel), they are showing The Dam Busters on a loop. With the name of the dog* unbleeped.

*Dog not included for scale.

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

DavidL said:

bigjohnowls said:

On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

Huge boost to my Party

Yep, he announces that we are not going to spend money that we do not have and can't afford to borrow without increasing taxes and interest rates, killing the growth these investments are allegedly going to bring.


He is serious about being PM. Whether he will be a good one or someone simply shoved around by the the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or is willing to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them, remains to be seen.

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

Alanbrooke said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pulpstar said:

rcs1000 said:

StillWaters said:

With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

* Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
* Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
* 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
* To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.

We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !

But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.

Stick him on a train to Dublin.

Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?

Because he broke the rules

Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

I don't think many feel that anymore

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

When did casino go?

Harper said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.

HYUFD said:

'Russia's election commission has rejected anti-war challenger Boris Nadezhdin as a candidate in next month's presidential vote.

Mr Nadezhdin has been relatively critical of Vladimir Putin's full-scale war in Ukraine when few dissenting voices have been tolerated in Russia.

He had tried to challenge claims by the election commission that more than 15% of the signatures he submitted with his candidate application were flawed.

But the commission rejected his bid.

Refusing to give up, Mr Nadezhdin said on social media that he would challenge the decision in Russia's Supreme Court.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68237791

Harper said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.

Carnyx said:

Eabhal said:

Another transport thing.

Amazing visualisation of just how rubbish the train network is outside London: https://x.com/Coneee/status/1755500503985750445?s=20

While we are on transport, this came up specially for you and @MattW :

https://www.thenational.scot/sport/24105286.edinburgh-route-tops-list-worst-cycle-lanes-world/

TimS said:

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who's starting renting out rooms to lodgers - posh HMO as you say. £800 per month for a room, in SE London. If you're a retired couple sitting in one of the 4 or 5 bed houses on our road, probably having long paid off the mortgage (our next door neighbours both bought their houses in the 1970s for about £5k) you could potentially rent out your spare rooms and get £2,400-£3,200 pcm.

noneoftheabove said:

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

StillWaters said:

Roger said:

Alanbrooke said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pulpstar said:

rcs1000 said:

StillWaters said:

With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

* Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
* Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
* 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
* To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.

We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !

But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.

Stick him on a train to Dublin.

Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?

Because he broke the rules

Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

I don't think many feel that anymore

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

When did casino go?

007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

Which makes for interesting math.

JosiasJessop said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Our town's dentist is technically an NHS dentists, but apparently you need the luck of the devil to get on the NHS list there (they are very good dentists, if that helps).

A new dentist has opened up in the town, in a very central location. And from what I see on their website, they don't take NHS patients.

We're lucky in that we can afford to go private. But many people we know can not, and some don't have cars to take them to NHS dentists elsewhere.

The system will have to change; I don't know in what way, though.

• Set up a National Dental Service
  
• Train dentists for free, on the condition that they work for the NDS for at least ten years after qualification
  
• After about five years you'll have a pipeline.
  

DavidL said:

Harper said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.

Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

Which makes for interesting math.

I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

1) for some company
2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so

Pulpstar said:

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

Which makes for interesting math.

I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

1) for some company
2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so

I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.

St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Harper said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.

Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.

Radical indeed! The Tory perspective is to cut money for education, for training, for investment.

The last budget did some good things on investment with the 100% write offs in year1 but, as I said at the time it did not go nearly far enough. We need to incentivise training and we need to ensure that we get better, more practical, use of our considerable education spend. I think Hunt recognises this but, of course, there are more important matters setting the terms of his budget such as bribing voters with their own money. I am not convinced Reeves will not be constrained by similar priorities.

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Pulpstar said:

Heard on the radio the other day Kiev dentists were having difficulty coming over. Of all the people we both need and want as immigrants to the country I'd have thought they'd be at the very top.

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

Heard on the radio the other day Kiev dentists were having difficulty coming over. Of all the people we both need and want as immigrants to the country I'd have thought they'd be at the very top.

If we can't run a country without importing dentists, then we can't run a country.

Pulpstar said:

eek said:

Nigelb said:

Malmesbury said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.

See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

Which makes for interesting math.

I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

1) for some company
2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so

I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.

Simon_Peach said:

Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

Simon_Peach said:

Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

RochdalePioneers said:

malcolmg said:

edmundintokyo said:

StillWaters said:

With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

* Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
* Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
* 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
* To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

This is what the internationally-agreed rules say, so you can put it the other way around and ask: Aside from the rowing boat issue, would the system be better if someone who escaped to a safe country had to remain in that safe country and couldn't go further away from the place they're fleeing? I think it would be worse because countries closer to the source of a crisis generally have more people showing up, so if there's a threshold where there are too many people showing up for a country to cope, it's better if the people involved spread themselves further into different countries.

I think British anti-immigration people would understand this if Britain was closer to a source of refugees. If they'd taken in 3 million people fleeing from Icelandic volcano carnage [*] and some of them had friends in Germany and wanted to move on, and they got apprehended trying to enter Germany, they wouldn't be saying "fair enough, we got them first, we'll take them back".

[*] I know, Iceland doesn't have that many people although they have a lot of volcano carnage.

Rules are crap then , this clownwas an economic migrant at best and should have been on teh next boat home.
This country is truly Fcuked up by morons and do gooders running the public services.

Yes, we are fucked because we do not people illegally leave the country. We should turn a blind eye and not check vehicles, thus ensuring that the worst criminals and suspects can simply slip away from justice.

That what you want? You can't turn a blind eye selectively.

Malmesbury said:

Mexicanpete said:

TOPPING said:

boulay said:

TOPPING said:

You've got to love Kinabalu's favourite Old Haileyburian Bazza Gardiner.

Labour's u-turn is "politically jejeune".

Classic Old Labour rhetoric.

“Jejune” please Topping.

oh god.

Indeed, banished to Conhome for just the month if you are lucky.

{Puts on black cap}

You have been found guilty of crimes against PB. May you been taken from this place to a place of confinement. Where you will be placed in a cell with Piers Morgan, Piers Corbyn and Julian Assange, 24/366. The only entertainment will be

- the worst Radiohead song on permanent loop.
- A computer that only allows you to read the worst comments on ConHome
- a option to program in Python.

May God have mercy upon your soul. because we won't.

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Simon_Peach said:

Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

Yes I'm not sure I've seen a white British dentist since I was a child. I suspect the net effect of immigration on dentist availability has been positive.

Malmesbury said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.

kjh said:

Malmesbury said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.

It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it

bondegezou said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

Selebian said:

kjh said:

Malmesbury said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.

It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it

Everyone who consumes it dies.

Nigelb said:

Selebian said:

kjh said:

Malmesbury said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

boulay said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue

This is where you fucked up.

No, it isn't

It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white

I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.

I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

See below

i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?

The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal

Great movie, tho. Really really great

I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke

Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.

It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.

I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!

Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.

This took me 30 seconds to find


"Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

"Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

"Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

There are many, many more

Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.

It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it

Everyone who consumes it dies.

As does everyone who doesn't, though.

Sandpit said:

bondegezou said:

148grss said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.

That isn't what that video says to any sane person

Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them

It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.

Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed

Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.

And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

Would you agree with that?

Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.

I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.

If the universities want to attract more foreign students, then perhaps they should be building somewhere for them to live?