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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,002
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Brompton, of the cool folding bicycle and Great British success story (loads of them exported out here to Melbourne, for example) have plans for an ambitious new factory in Kent.

    4,000 jobs. A 60 acre nature reserve. 200,000 bikes a year. Actual manufacturing investment in the UK!

    BUT NO.

    National Highways, for the fourth time in a row, have opposed the plans, delaying the approval process. All because Brompton want their staff to commute by bicycle, rather than by car.

    If anyone wants to understand why the UK will struggle to mitigate carbon emissions, has chronic congestion problems, zero productivity growth and a dearth of investment, see the above.

    It seems like the issue is with Brompton not providing parking spaces, which is understandable given their approach and philosophy but the Highways England concerns are also understandable as they're worried about people parking on nearby roads (on the basis not everyone working there is going to be within cycling distance). Sounds like they need to get together around a table to thrash it out.
    Yup - looks like it. https://road.cc/content/news/new-car-free-brompton-factory-facing-delays-306637#:~:text=In documents published in January,concerns in the interim period.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,803
    On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

    SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

    Huge boost to my Party
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461
    edited February 8
    boulay said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    It has to be watched on a non-Summer bank holiday weekend for me. No idea why but maybe just a reminder of childhood watching it on bank holidays. Don’t know why they changed it to a Welsh regiment though.

    Wish they would show Khartoum again as well - last time it was on tv they showed it with the cinema intermission which was weird but fun.

    On old films with Charlton Heston I was watching 55 days at Peking the other week and was amused by Heston giving it large as the tough military man giving David Niven grief and then comparing their real life military service was amusing, I could imagine Niven raising his eyebrow as Heston spoke his lines.
    Ben Hur is another classic that drags you in, and you end up watching the whole movie. Again

    Also: Singing in the Rain

    And Oliver!

    And La La Land. My God I love that movie, always makes me NEARLY cry
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.
    But if you change channel (to the only other channel), they are showing The Dam Busters on a loop. With the name of the dog* unbleeped.

    *Dog not included for scale.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,946

    Eabhal said:

    Brompton, of the cool folding bicycle and Great British success story (loads of them exported out here to Melbourne, for example) have plans for an ambitious new factory in Kent.

    4,000 jobs. A 60 acre nature reserve. 200,000 bikes a year. Actual manufacturing investment in the UK!

    BUT NO.

    National Highways, for the fourth time in a row, have opposed the plans, delaying the approval process. All because Brompton want their staff to commute by bicycle, rather than by car.

    If anyone wants to understand why the UK will struggle to mitigate climate change, has chronic congestion problems, zero productivity growth and a dearth of investment, see the above.

    Process. Probably they don't promote ZEVs enough, therefore computer says no.

    On the subject of Brompton - they have a very good hire scheme (small but growing) https://bromptonhire.com/our-locations/. Mostly railway stations.

    Quite a few times now, on the days with better weather, I've seen people taking them on trains out to the countryside. A number of times, it's a couple with one person with an owned Brompton (work) and the other hiring one for the day.

    Well worth a look.
    I sold mine after this episode...



    It did serve me well for commuting in Cairo. I should have got a fucking VC for going around the El-Tahrir roundabout on it. They don't ride like a normal bike (terminal death wobble sets in at 55km/h) and every fucking part on them (even the hubs) are bespoke so spares are a nightmare. But still a sound product that was Dura Ace Approved (until the Truss incident).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544
    philiph said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Don't know if this has been commented on in previous threads but Nevada held its Democratic primary on Tuesday. The United States being what it is with timely counting (and Nevada seems particularly poor at electoral administration), not all the votes are in yet but the top-line is unsurprising: Biden has won with about 90% (NotA finished second with nearly 6%).

    Point is, that's another 36 pledged delegates in Biden's bag, giving him a clean sweep of the 91 up for grabs so far. Small beer out of the 3,770 to be elected in total (never mind the 4,540 once super-delegates are added in), but it's another incremental step and each such step makes it harder for the Democrats to pick anyone else, or to do so in a way that looks, well, democratic.

    In a month or so, it'll be all but over. Super Tuesday is in less than 4 weeks, by when a third of delegates will have been chosen. A week later, another 6.5% are up for grabs; a week after that, another 10% will be - and that should then be that, providing Biden wants to remain in the race, which he gives every indication of wanting to do.

    Biden probably won't die between now and the end of the Democratic primaries. But it's a massively higher chance, by orders of magnitude than him actually losing the primaries. And if he does die, it'll be Harris.
    He might voluntarily step down but not for Harris. It would have to be for someone who he believes has an even better chance of defeating Trump.
    I think this is the most unbelievable moment in American (and therefore potentially global) politics.

    Choose between Biden and Trump

    How can the civilised world have degenerated so much as to make this possible?

    This is way more serious than climate change. Discuss
    Biden is old and has a stammer. Aside from that he is a typical, and at least averagely efffective, western democratic leader, compared to the cohort over the last half century. It is not the choice between the two that is the problem, it is Trump and that too many people are supporting him, even at the expense of democratic norms.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,978

    On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

    SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

    Huge boost to my Party

    Yep, he announces that we are not going to spend money that we do not have and can't afford to borrow without increasing taxes and interest rates, killing the growth these investments are allegedly going to bring.


    He is serious about being PM. Whether he will be a good one or someone simply shoved around by the the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or is willing to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them, remains to be seen.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,877
    edited February 8

    There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Partially, there's a £400m underspend on the dentistry budget though - the system isn't worth it for dentists for new patients with bad teeth and gums. The unit system needs radically overhauling, yesterday.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,876
    Another transport thing.

    Amazing visualisation of just how rubbish the train network is outside London: https://x.com/Coneee/status/1755500503985750445?s=20
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466
    Eabhal said:

    Another transport thing.

    Amazing visualisation of just how rubbish the train network is outside London: https://x.com/Coneee/status/1755500503985750445?s=20

    While we are on transport, this came up specially for you and @MattW :

    https://www.thenational.scot/sport/24105286.edinburgh-route-tops-list-worst-cycle-lanes-world/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466
    Pulpstar said:

    There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Partially, there's a £400m underspend on the dentistry budget though - the system isn't worth it for dentists for new patients with bad teeth and gums. The unit system needs radically overhauling, yesterday.
    Often people who have simply fallen off the radar for a couple of years as a result of covid, or a move of job or had their dentist retire or whatever.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,309

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who's starting renting out rooms to lodgers - posh HMO as you say. £800 per month for a room, in SE London. If you're a retired couple sitting in one of the 4 or 5 bed houses on our road, probably having long paid off the mortgage (our next door neighbours both bought their houses in the 1970s for about £5k) you could potentially rent out your spare rooms and get £2,400-£3,200 pcm.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,876
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Brompton, of the cool folding bicycle and Great British success story (loads of them exported out here to Melbourne, for example) have plans for an ambitious new factory in Kent.

    4,000 jobs. A 60 acre nature reserve. 200,000 bikes a year. Actual manufacturing investment in the UK!

    BUT NO.

    National Highways, for the fourth time in a row, have opposed the plans, delaying the approval process. All because Brompton want their staff to commute by bicycle, rather than by car.

    If anyone wants to understand why the UK will struggle to mitigate climate change, has chronic congestion problems, zero productivity growth and a dearth of investment, see the above.

    Process. Probably they don't promote ZEVs enough, therefore computer says no.

    On the subject of Brompton - they have a very good hire scheme (small but growing) https://bromptonhire.com/our-locations/. Mostly railway stations.

    Quite a few times now, on the days with better weather, I've seen people taking them on trains out to the countryside. A number of times, it's a couple with one person with an owned Brompton (work) and the other hiring one for the day.

    Well worth a look.
    I sold mine after this episode...



    It did serve me well for commuting in Cairo. I should have got a fucking VC for going around the El-Tahrir roundabout on it. They don't ride like a normal bike (terminal death wobble sets in at 55km/h) and every fucking part on them (even the hubs) are bespoke so spares are a nightmare. But still a sound product that was Dura Ace Approved (until the Truss incident).
    £2.5k of taxpayer money well spent on that photo to be fair. Still generating repeat laughs and entertainment years later.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,924
    Pulpstar said:

    There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Partially, there's a £400m underspend on the dentistry budget though - the system isn't worth it for dentists for new patients with bad teeth and gums. The unit system needs radically overhauling, yesterday.
    In the same way that reducing capacity in the driving test system ended up pushing the entire thing into a new metastable state where you can’t get driving tests, reducing dentist services resulted in similarly perverse incentives: now no dentist wants to go into NHS dentistry now because they know they’ll be promptly flooded with the worst cases of people who have been unable to get their teeth fixed for years & they’ll make a loss on every patient because of the NHS fee structure.

    It is emblematic of this government’s inability to get basic things right that they haven’t even managed to solve this basic “dentist fee structure doesn’t match up with their patient’s needs” reality, even when it’s completely within their power to do so & the £ have already been allocated from the health budget.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,002

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.
    But if you change channel (to the only other channel), they are showing The Dam Busters on a loop. With the name of the dog* unbleeped.

    *Dog not included for scale.
    Time for a good book then, preferably one without any 'heroic' war nonsense. Eg I'm into a Japanese magical realist epic atm. I pick it up whenever I'm tempted to do something reprehensible.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    TimS said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who's starting renting out rooms to lodgers - posh HMO as you say. £800 per month for a room, in SE London. If you're a retired couple sitting in one of the 4 or 5 bed houses on our road, probably having long paid off the mortgage (our next door neighbours both bought their houses in the 1970s for about £5k) you could potentially rent out your spare rooms and get £2,400-£3,200 pcm.
    I have been told that many of the new build flats come with the discreet "keyhole-in-handle" style of door locks. On every bedroom. The assumption is HMO occupation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.
    But if you change channel (to the only other channel), they are showing The Dam Busters on a loop. With the name of the dog* unbleeped.

    *Dog not included for scale.
    Time for a good book then, preferably one without any 'heroic' war nonsense. Eg I'm into a Japanese magical realist epic atm. I pick it up whenever I'm tempted to do something reprehensible.
    Or fire up The Cruel Sea.

    "Snorkers! Good oh!"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    edited February 8

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    Yep. You can't get away from it. If you want to not watch it you have to make that a priority.
    But if you change channel (to the only other channel), they are showing The Dam Busters on a loop. With the name of the dog* unbleeped.

    *Dog not included for scale.
    It would be racist to include a picture of the dog. ;)
  • There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Given that all but one of the nine dentists at my local practice are of non-British heritage, I have my doubts that cutting immigration is the way to deal with the lack of dentists.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    Nowhere. He's lurking. Last active 09:50 this morning...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    'Russia's election commission has rejected anti-war challenger Boris Nadezhdin as a candidate in next month's presidential vote.

    Mr Nadezhdin has been relatively critical of Vladimir Putin's full-scale war in Ukraine when few dissenting voices have been tolerated in Russia.

    He had tried to challenge claims by the election commission that more than 15% of the signatures he submitted with his candidate application were flawed.

    But the commission rejected his bid.

    Refusing to give up, Mr Nadezhdin said on social media that he would challenge the decision in Russia's Supreme Court.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68237791
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of

    urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    The covid lockdowns shook many peoples belief in the idea of the uk as a free country. State overreach was all pervasive.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,803
    DavidL said:

    On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

    SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

    Huge boost to my Party

    Yep, he announces that we are not going to spend money that we do not have and can't afford to borrow without increasing taxes and interest rates, killing the growth these investments are allegedly going to bring.


    He is serious about being PM. Whether he will be a good one or someone simply shoved around by the the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or is willing to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them, remains to be seen.
    Borrowing for Investment not for the sake of it

    And if you prioritize austerity Reeves fiscal rules over saving the planet

    Your either an idiot or not bothered about the future of the planet
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793
    boulay said:

    Don’t know why they changed it to a Welsh regiment though.

    The regimental HQ, and the museum of the battle, are in Wales
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    Not enough Witt at t' Drift
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    HYUFD said:

    'Russia's election commission has rejected anti-war challenger Boris Nadezhdin as a candidate in next month's presidential vote.

    Mr Nadezhdin has been relatively critical of Vladimir Putin's full-scale war in Ukraine when few dissenting voices have been tolerated in Russia.

    He had tried to challenge claims by the election commission that more than 15% of the signatures he submitted with his candidate application were flawed.

    But the commission rejected his bid.

    Refusing to give up, Mr Nadezhdin said on social media that he would challenge the decision in Russia's Supreme Court.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68237791

    Good luck with that. And dont get on planes you know how unreliable they can be these days.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,978
    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
  • There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Good morning

    On dentistry I have always had dental issues and for many years now my wife and I pay for Denplan

    The service is outstanding and I have had immediate access to a dentist in Oxford on our way to Heathrow to fly to New Zealand when a crown fell out at the M6 toll road, further emergency treatment actually in New Zealand on another trip to our sons, multiple visits by my wife over a troublesome tooth and only last week a same day emergency appointment to replace a filling that had fallen out just before my pacemaker operation was due.

    For all if this we pay £850 pa in total and recognise that we are fortunate to be able to do so but whilst comfortable we are not wealthy but choose to spend on this service and would recommend it to anyone
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,877
    HYUFD said:

    'Russia's election commission has rejected anti-war challenger Boris Nadezhdin as a candidate in next month's presidential vote.

    Mr Nadezhdin has been relatively critical of Vladimir Putin's full-scale war in Ukraine when few dissenting voices have been tolerated in Russia.

    He had tried to challenge claims by the election commission that more than 15% of the signatures he submitted with his candidate application were flawed.

    But the commission rejected his bid.

    Refusing to give up, Mr Nadezhdin said on social media that he would challenge the decision in Russia's Supreme Court.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68237791

    Somehow Smarkets let me have a ton on Putin being re-elected at Evens a while back. The only minor worry was the Prigozhin episode.
  • HarperHarper Posts: 197
    DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    Way too sensible for our govt.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,016
    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    That might increase nominal GDP but it doesn't increase GDP per capita.

    The way to generate growth is through higher productivity.

    The way to generate higher productivity is for the country to live within its means.

    The country living within its means is an idea which terrifies most people and all politicians.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,876

    Eabhal said:

    Brompton, of the cool folding bicycle and Great British success story (loads of them exported out here to Melbourne, for example) have plans for an ambitious new factory in Kent.

    4,000 jobs. A 60 acre nature reserve. 200,000 bikes a year. Actual manufacturing investment in the UK!

    BUT NO.

    National Highways, for the fourth time in a row, have opposed the plans, delaying the approval process. All because Brompton want their staff to commute by bicycle, rather than by car.

    Hmmm, details please.....this seems to be the week of the one half of the story only to gain outrage and sympathy.
    There was a relatively neutral article on Kent online

    It seems that National Highways said “you need to have parking for people who have no choice but to drive”

    Brompton said “ok” and negotiated to share a near by shopping centre car park

    National highways has now said “since there is an option to drive lots of employees may do so, hence we need a road traffic impact assessment”

    It’s either bureaucratic nonsense or may be the regional director has a nimby interest of some kind
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,876
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another transport thing.

    Amazing visualisation of just how rubbish the train network is outside London: https://x.com/Coneee/status/1755500503985750445?s=20

    While we are on transport, this came up specially for you and @MattW :

    https://www.thenational.scot/sport/24105286.edinburgh-route-tops-list-worst-cycle-lanes-world/
    Weirdly proud of this
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,803
    UK workers must accept lower pay deals to help beat inflation, says £375k a year Bank of England Deputy Governor.

    Silence on exec pay, dividends, share buybacks.

    Average wages unchanged since 2006. Millions already in poverty.

    Directors pay spiralling out of control since 2010

    And there we have it stuff your fiscal rules up your centrist arses until there is more Social Justice and wankers like the Bank of England Deputy Governor can spout such tosh

    Im off for a lie down!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,983
    TimS said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    I was talking to a neighbour yesterday who's starting renting out rooms to lodgers - posh HMO as you say. £800 per month for a room, in SE London. If you're a retired couple sitting in one of the 4 or 5 bed houses on our road, probably having long paid off the mortgage (our next door neighbours both bought their houses in the 1970s for about £5k) you could potentially rent out your spare rooms and get £2,400-£3,200 pcm.
    Decent tax free allowance under the rent a room scheme too. We rent out our basement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    a
    DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    It seems fairly clear that the current model of immigration/economy is of running faster and faster to stay in the same place.

    We need to change out of that. A large problem is the refusal of organisation (public and private) to invest in productivity increasing mechanisation.

    Within a few years, the automated fruit picking machines will be cheaper than the sub-minimum-wage employees.

    What about getting ahead of the curve and looking at things like lifting machines in care homes? We are fairly close to personal robots that could be very helpful to the elderly - imagine a Boston Dynamics "dog" that follows you round. If you are tired, sit on it. It carries the shopping for you, has a phone built in, recharges itself when it can. And if you fall down, it tries to help you up and can sound the alarm, if necessary.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,876

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.
    Why?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866
    edited February 8
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
    I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

    To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

    1) for some company
    2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so
  • DavidL said:

    On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

    SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

    Huge boost to my Party

    Yep, he announces that we are not going to spend money that we do not have and can't afford to borrow without increasing taxes and interest rates, killing the growth these investments are allegedly going to bring.


    He is serious about being PM. Whether he will be a good one or someone simply shoved around by the the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or is willing to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them, remains to be seen.
    Borrowing for Investment not for the sake of it

    And if you prioritize austerity Reeves fiscal rules over saving the planet

    Your either an idiot or not bothered about the future of the planet
    There is a difference. Unless Labour get elected then none of what they say matters. And you passionately want them to lose. The future of the planet? Just your political pawn at this point.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,531

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Our town's dentist is technically an NHS dentists, but apparently you need the luck of the devil to get on the NHS list there (they are very good dentists, if that helps).

    A new dentist has opened up in the town, in a very central location. And from what I see on their website, they don't take NHS patients.

    We're lucky in that we can afford to go private. But many people we know can not, and some don't have cars to take them to NHS dentists elsewhere.

    The system will have to change; I don't know in what way, though.
    • Set up a National Dental Service
    • Train dentists for free, on the condition that they work for the NDS for at least ten years after qualification
    • After about five years you'll have a pipeline.
    In his most recent books Steve Richards pointed out that the privatisation model has a flaw: if the public blame the Govt for an industry going wrong, but the industry is privatised, then a Minister can't do anything.

    We have to stop pretending that Government is magic and can do everything without public funding via taxation nor a Government department. It's not a labour vs conservative point (well it is, but not with the current parties), simply about how you achieve an outcome.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,978

    DavidL said:

    On the day it is announced we suffered the World's first year-long breach of key 1.5C warming limit

    SKS announces we cant afford to invest in Green initiatives

    Huge boost to my Party

    Yep, he announces that we are not going to spend money that we do not have and can't afford to borrow without increasing taxes and interest rates, killing the growth these investments are allegedly going to bring.


    He is serious about being PM. Whether he will be a good one or someone simply shoved around by the the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or is willing to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them, remains to be seen.
    Borrowing for Investment not for the sake of it

    And if you prioritize austerity Reeves fiscal rules over saving the planet

    Your either an idiot or not bothered about the future of the planet
    The delusion that what we do in this country has a material effect on the global situation is just frankly weird and has resulted in some deeply bizarre policies which resulted in us importing an ever growing share of the stuff we use to our very considerable detriment.

    The UK government must operate in the interests of the UK. That means, for example, we want to adopt wind power and other renewable energy in a huge way and reduce our imports of oil for fuel. It means that we want to encourage electric vehicles running off that home produced power and reducing the particulates in the cities. There are many "green" things we should be doing but the wish list of the £28bn looked very poorly focused to me.

    One of the things that the UK government must do is operate within the parameters set by the markets. Truss and Kwarteng showed vividly what happens if you don't. This will remain the case as long as we are borrowing £100bn a year to fund an ever less productive public sector. If we want genuine freedom to act we need to stop borrowing and live within our means. Not sure Reeves is up for that but she certainly recognises the lesson of Truss.
  • DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    Radical indeed! The Tory perspective is to cut money for education, for training, for investment.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,016

    UK workers must accept lower pay deals to help beat inflation, says £375k a year Bank of England Deputy Governor.

    Silence on exec pay, dividends, share buybacks.

    Average wages unchanged since 2006. Millions already in poverty.

    Directors pay spiralling out of control since 2010

    And there we have it stuff your fiscal rules up your centrist arses until there is more Social Justice and wankers like the Bank of England Deputy Governor can spout such tosh

    Im off for a lie down!

    One issue having negative effects on productivity is executive capture.

    When too much of the wealth created is being taken by the executive oligarchy instead of by the workers who have created it then it acts as a disincentive for those workers to create more.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,877
    edited February 8
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
    I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

    To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

    1) for some company
    2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so
    I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,978

    DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    Radical indeed! The Tory perspective is to cut money for education, for training, for investment.
    The last budget did some good things on investment with the 100% write offs in year1 but, as I said at the time it did not go nearly far enough. We need to incentivise training and we need to ensure that we get better, more practical, use of our considerable education spend. I think Hunt recognises this but, of course, there are more important matters setting the terms of his budget such as bribing voters with their own money. I am not convinced Reeves will not be constrained by similar priorities.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
    I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

    To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

    1) for some company
    2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so
    I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.
    Will have a higher expected value, yes, but with more risk.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443

    https://www.ft.com/content/6fb1602d-a08b-4a8c-bac0-047b7d64aba5

    This is a fantastic article, I thoroughly recommend it.

    Nice.

    And one of the reasons Brexit is a bad idea: you need the power and weight of the EU to combat the large tech companies.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,983
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.
    St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data
    St Paul's has had a large African/Caribbean population since the 1950s (it has had a carnival since the early 1960s and was where the Bristol Bus Boycott started) so will also be home to a significant non white population who are not immigrants and certainly not recent arrivals. I just don't know how one can judge whether the crowd outside the dental practice are recent immigrants or not based on their appearance.
    It all reminds me of some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on her beautiful English. Her parents are Sri Lankan but she was born in Margate and was studying at Cambridge University at the time so her English language skills were not really that surprising.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.
    Why?
    Not quite sure, someone called "Charles the Third, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories, King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith", "Chaz" and it all went downhill from there.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    Radical indeed! The Tory perspective is to cut money for education, for training, for investment.
    The last budget did some good things on investment with the 100% write offs in year1 but, as I said at the time it did not go nearly far enough. We need to incentivise training and we need to ensure that we get better, more practical, use of our considerable education spend. I think Hunt recognises this but, of course, there are more important matters setting the terms of his budget such as bribing voters with their own money. I am not convinced Reeves will not be constrained by similar priorities.
    It is a peculiar British disease. Go back 50 or 60 years and we had world-leading industrials. And through crap management and commie unions and then Thatcherism we threw it all away.

    Name any project and the right wing ask "who will pay for that". Proper investment delivers a return on investment - capitalism! But the supposedly pro-capitalism political set sees all investment as being subsidy. Money which is spent once, thrown away and not delivering value.

    They know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Unless we change this mindset - which is also embedded now within Labour - then we will never change this.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,876
    edited February 8

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.
    Why?
    Not quite sure, someone called "Charles the Third, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories, King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith", "Chaz" and it all went downhill from there.
    Charlie? He doesn’t really like Chaz or Chuckie as nicknames, but generally he’s pretty chill.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542
    edited February 8
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    007 February (not quite but that was his first day of absence). I'd imagine he will be baccarat soon enough.
    Why?
    Not quite sure, someone called "Charles the Third, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories, King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith", "Chaz" and it all went downhill from there.
    Charlie? He doesn’t really like Chaz or Chuckie as nicknames, but generally he’s pretty chill.
    Does he post on here?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,531
    Pulpstar said:

    Heard on the radio the other day Kiev dentists were having difficulty coming over. Of all the people we both need and want as immigrants to the country I'd have thought they'd be at the very top.

    If we can't run a country without importing dentists, then we can't run a country.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

    There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Heard on the radio the other day Kiev dentists were having difficulty coming over. Of all the people we both need and want as immigrants to the country I'd have thought they'd be at the very top.

    If we can't run a country without importing dentists, then we can't run a country.
    To be fair if there are a few jobs that need filling, it doesn't necessarily indicate a root and branch problem.
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 407
    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
    I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

    To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

    1) for some company
    2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so
    I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.
    Given that she is on a civil service pension - there is little more she can actually do on that side.

    I know things will arrive which will change her plans but once she has finished her (rather well paid) appenticeship she will be on enough money that the mortgage doesn’t matter unless she wanted to move somewhere posher
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,145
    edited February 8

    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

    We have 2 excellent Romanian dentists in our practice and it is headed up by an Indian dentist

    Our dentist is a lovely Welsh lady but everyone in the practice is like so many in the health service, professional and caring

    And believe me since mid October I have been involved with an extraordinary number of NHS staff who excel in caring
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,983

    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

    Yes I'm not sure I've seen a white British dentist since I was a child. I suspect the net effect of immigration on dentist availability has been positive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Apparently the worst shortages of NHS dentists are in rural areas and coastal strips - not exactly the favoured destinations of newcomers.

    And, as has been pointed out, St. Pauls is the area of Bristol that has had a high proportion of immigrants since at least the 1950s. You may be too young to remember the 1980 riots, when local youth expressed their displeasure at their persecution by the police. Those same youths, older and wiser, doubtless form part of the queue for a dentist that has animated you so much.
    Don’t suppose dentistry provision in Jaywick is great, apart for canines.

    Too soon?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,544

    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

    I thought the game was Simon Says not Leon Says?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461

    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

    Yes. Of course. Literally just half an hour ago I said “let’s expel all Romanian dentists from the country”

    Go back and see the comment. About 5.30pm

    It is becoming quite hard being the only sane, sorry, vaguely right wing person on this forum

    I’d be grateful if you didn’t just make shit up like everyone else. Thanks
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,800

    malcolmg said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    This is what the internationally-agreed rules say, so you can put it the other way around and ask: Aside from the rowing boat issue, would the system be better if someone who escaped to a safe country had to remain in that safe country and couldn't go further away from the place they're fleeing? I think it would be worse because countries closer to the source of a crisis generally have more people showing up, so if there's a threshold where there are too many people showing up for a country to cope, it's better if the people involved spread themselves further into different countries.

    I think British anti-immigration people would understand this if Britain was closer to a source of refugees. If they'd taken in 3 million people fleeing from Icelandic volcano carnage [*] and some of them had friends in Germany and wanted to move on, and they got apprehended trying to enter Germany, they wouldn't be saying "fair enough, we got them first, we'll take them back".

    [*] I know, Iceland doesn't have that many people although they have a lot of volcano carnage.
    Rules are crap then , this clownwas an economic migrant at best and should have been on teh next boat home.
    This country is truly Fcuked up by morons and do gooders running the public services.
    Yes, we are fucked because we do not people illegally leave the country. We should turn a blind eye and not check vehicles, thus ensuring that the worst criminals and suspects can simply slip away from justice.

    That what you want? You can't turn a blind eye selectively.
    WTF are you talking about. I am saying they should enforce the borders strictly and not alow entry/chuck out any illegal arseholes immediately , NOT do as you want and let anyone in and not keep any controls/ just let them stay.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Harper said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    Unfortunately the only way the uk economy can now generate growth above zero is to have massive non white non eu immigration. Otherwise we would basically be stuck in a permanent recession.
    Or we could invest in new tech and train our existing people to use it. A bit radical, I admit.
    Radical indeed! The Tory perspective is to cut money for education, for training, for investment.
    The last budget did some good things on investment with the 100% write offs in year1 but, as I said at the time it did not go nearly far enough. We need to incentivise training and we need to ensure that we get better, more practical, use of our considerable education spend. I think Hunt recognises this but, of course, there are more important matters setting the terms of his budget such as bribing voters with their own money. I am not convinced Reeves will not be constrained by similar priorities.
    It is a peculiar British disease. Go back 50 or 60 years and we had world-leading industrials. And through crap management and commie unions and then Thatcherism we threw it all away.

    Name any project and the right wing ask "who will pay for that". Proper investment delivers a return on investment - capitalism! But the supposedly pro-capitalism political set sees all investment as being subsidy. Money which is spent once, thrown away and not delivering value.

    They know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Unless we change this mindset - which is also embedded now within Labour - then we will never change this.
    And then we are back to the problem of picking winners. Which ends up with Ground Nuts.

    Everything has to be paid for. The idea that "Proper investment has a return, so it's free" is just as mad as "No investment".

    Government would have to get it's head round the following

    - Some investments go bad. You plan for that. Multiple schemes, invest in the *end result*
    - Your pet idea may be a total fuck up. The one suggested by the Opposition is better. Even worse, the best answer is from someone who isn't in government.

    For example, you want investment in ZEV. Offer to pay a subsidy, per kWh of zero emission power storage* delivered in an actual vehicle. Subsidy graded according to the UK content.

    I actually suggested that to a couple of minor politicians. The horror was interesting - "But that would mean giving public money to whoever does that. No Strategic Plan! No policy control!"

    *Do not specify technology in any way.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919

    TOPPING said:

    boulay said:

    TOPPING said:

    You've got to love Kinabalu's favourite Old Haileyburian Bazza Gardiner.

    Labour's u-turn is "politically jejeune".

    Classic Old Labour rhetoric.

    “Jejune” please Topping.
    oh god.
    Indeed, banished to Conhome for just the month if you are lucky.
    {Puts on black cap}

    You have been found guilty of crimes against PB. May you been taken from this place to a place of confinement. Where you will be placed in a cell with Piers Morgan, Piers Corbyn and Julian Assange, 24/366. The only entertainment will be

    - the worst Radiohead song on permanent loop.
    - A computer that only allows you to read the worst comments on ConHome
    - a option to program in Python.

    May God have mercy upon your soul. because we won't.
    Python you say. C++ for effort
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,764
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    If you build enough homes of any kind, the prices will fall. Even the Ancient Romans knew this.

    This is, in part, why we don't build the houses required.

    The conversion effect in the market is fascinating. Where I work (small bank), the new joiners no longer expect to move to their own flat. Instead they live in posh versions of HMOs. Whereas a few years ago...

    Similarly, in West London, the houses built by the Victorians and Edwardians, quite explicitly, for the poor, are now 7 figures.

    I do wonder, if the property market ever unwinds, how that will change.
    See also the increasing prevalence of the 45 year mortgage - taken out, on average, by someone aged 33.

    Which makes for interesting math.
    I thought the 35 year mortgage twin A is taking out aged 21 seemed rather long

    To add her plan is to have a lodger or 2 (probably post grad students) for a couple of reasons

    1) for some company
    2) the income should allow her to pay the mortgage off in 10 years or so
    I was thinking about this. Isn't it mathematically best to take out as long a mortgage as possible, and shovel as much money into either a lifetime ISA or your pension (Depending on salary etc) as possible ? Your mortgage is pretty almost always the cheapest money available.
    That’s what they used to call an endowment mortgage. Which worked brilliantly, until suddenly they very much didn’t.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    With all the caveats - this is one case, it’s the Daily Mail (so may be at least half true), etc etc this is a good example of why ordinary people get frustrated by the asylum system

    * Fled Syria in 2014 to avoid being called up. Ok, seems reasonable
    * Settled in Germany where he had family. Makes sense
    * 3 years ago he rowed with his family because he drinks and smokes and they said that means he’s not a good Muslim. Hmmh. Seems unlikely… may be @TheScreamingEagles can comment
    * To quote him: 'I thought the UK would be a good place to find work in the construction industry, I am a talented plasterer,'

    In what world is someone who was settled for 5+ years in Germany and has admitted that they are coming to the UK to find work a potential asylum claimant. And how has it taken 3 years to make that determination?

    This isn’t a comment on the level of immigration or the need for people to do jobs. It’s a comment on the breakdown is the asylum process. If you want legal immigration that should be separate


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13058261/why-wont-police-let-leave-britain-ilegal-channel-migrant-living-rowing-boat.html

    Quite: this should have been a 48 hour determination at most.
    We must have the only police force in the world that actively tried to stop someone who admits, and is actively trying to go stop leaving !
    But, what can they do with this boat-dwelling arsehole? They can't deport him to Syria. They can't deport him to Germany because of our hard won BREXIT FREEDOMS. The Old Bill can't just not enforce the law that says you can't blag your way onto ferries.
    Stick him on a train to Dublin.
    Brutal! I remember aged 18 going to Spain for a week just before taking up my first job. On the beach I met an English guy about the same age as me with a battered boat and 'Joe's Speedboat' daubed on the side.

    He had a bevy of girls around him and every now and then someone would turn up wanting a ski he'd give them a spin round the bay. I spent most of the week with him and I spent the next several years wondering why I was working like a dog in London and wasn't doing what Joe was doing with his bevvy of girls not a care in the world driving his speedboat.

    When did we become this morose place where we worry about someone from another country sleeping under a boat or
    even buying one if he wants to? What's wrong with foreigners being here? When did this obsession start?
    Because he broke the rules
    Do you remember when we used to think we lived in a 'free country'? When most lived by the philosophy of 'live and let live'? '

    I don't think many feel that anymore
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    When did casino go?
    Cashed in his chips.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,310

    Just rung and cancelled my NHS dental appointment for next week… our NHS dentist is Romanian and @Leon says he shouldn’t be in the country… and who am I to argue with @Leon

    Yes I'm not sure I've seen a white British dentist since I was a child. I suspect the net effect of immigration on dentist availability has been positive.
    My dentist was white British until about 18 months ago. His wife died suddenly and he had to cut back for childcare duties and so stopped his NHS work and only does private work now. Fortunate to have had no trouble getting NHS dentistry at the same practice, though - was an Eastern European last time, but this morning I saw a British (from accent) dentist of South Asian ethnicity. For whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be a problem just here. GP services here are also good, it must be said. The town has a relatively high Eastern European population - high non-UK for Yorks & Humber anyway - although the surrounding district is very white British.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,865

    There is something missing in what @leon is saying.

    The political set telling people that darkies are responsible for a lack of NHS dentistry are the same political set who continually cut funding to NHS dentistry.

    The solution to a lack of NHS provision for dentists and GPs and hospital beds isn't less foreigners. Its more money spent on provision.

    Good morning

    On dentistry I have always had dental issues and for many years now my wife and I pay for Denplan

    The service is outstanding and I have had immediate access to a dentist in Oxford on our way to Heathrow to fly to New Zealand when a crown fell out at the M6 toll road, further emergency treatment actually in New Zealand on another trip to our sons, multiple visits by my wife over a troublesome tooth and only last week a same day emergency appointment to replace a filling that had fallen out just before my pacemaker operation was due.

    For all if this we pay £850 pa in total and recognise that we are fortunate to be able to do so but whilst comfortable we are not wealthy but choose to spend on this service and would recommend it to anyone
    One of my carers is Polish ……. she’s here legally ….. needed dental treatment. She was so fed up with the wait and cost here that she flew ‘home’ ….. £50 return IIRC ….. saw her family …..and had the necessary treatment for about £75.
    Saved her several months of waiting and £100 or so.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
    It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,054

    I see the Right are pushing back over Rishi's PMQs controversy yesterday. The alternative narrative is that Sir Keir put on a mawkish, insincere display that milked a tragic murder for his own grubby political ends. Which narrative will gain supremacy?

    For most people, the one that was prevalent at the time it was reported, not the one presented later to people still discussing it on social media.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
    It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it
    It's found at the scene of every single crime.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,940

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

    There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.
    We have over 2 million British students in higher education at the moment. Reducing that number would go a long way to removing the need to import workers from overseas.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878
    ..

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.
    St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data
    St Paul's has had a large African/Caribbean population since the 1950s (it has had a carnival since the early 1960s and was where the Bristol Bus Boycott started) so will also be home to a significant non white population who are not immigrants and certainly not recent arrivals. I just don't know how one can judge whether the crowd outside the dental practice are recent immigrants or not based on their appearance.
    It all reminds me of some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on her beautiful English. Her parents are Sri Lankan but she was born in Margate and was studying at Cambridge University at the time so her English language skills were not really that surprising.
    Suggesting that British born BAMEs aren’t really British is Goodwin’s latest slippery little trick. I suppose they’re an easy visible target towards which to direct the torch wielding mob.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,764

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

    There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.
    If the universities want to attract more foreign students, then perhaps they should be building somewhere for them to live?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,300
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    The problem is though that while it's quite easy to ignore the nazis, the 'everything is racist' loons - who as you note, are a minority - are nevertheless particularly influential, and their views have particular currency in education, broadcasting and the civil service. Very difficult to just ignore if you want to be educated or entertained or interact with the public sector.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,310
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
    It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it
    Everyone who consumes it dies.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,876
    Eabhal said:
    Curious timing. No official report out yet on the iPad use.

    Something else going on?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
    It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it
    Everyone who consumes it dies.
    As does everyone who doesn't, though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,940

    ..

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.
    St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data
    St Paul's has had a large African/Caribbean population since the 1950s (it has had a carnival since the early 1960s and was where the Bristol Bus Boycott started) so will also be home to a significant non white population who are not immigrants and certainly not recent arrivals. I just don't know how one can judge whether the crowd outside the dental practice are recent immigrants or not based on their appearance.
    It all reminds me of some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on her beautiful English. Her parents are Sri Lankan but she was born in Margate and was studying at Cambridge University at the time so her English language skills were not really that surprising.
    Suggesting that British born BAMEs aren’t really British is Goodwin’s latest slippery little trick. I suppose they’re an easy visible target towards which to direct the torch wielding mob.
    "The Scots are as British as anyone," isn't your usual line.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,310
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    I didn't see you travelling down this path tbh. What does it matter what colour people are. Plus I've no idea whether your "stat" is true. I haven't yet come across a black Polish plumber or Romanian bricklayer or indeed Albanian chippie but I'm sure some exist.

    Or are you feeling a bit besieged on PB atm and are doubling down.
    I am merely saying that the video is - arguably - a visual representation of the pressure mass migration is putting on the UK's public services and infra. This is hardly a new point from me, I am hardly going off on a new Nazi tangent, am I? I expect you've heard me make the point before

    And yet there are PB-ers who deny this is an issue. Who deny that mass migration might be at least part of the reason we see such pressure on UK health, education, sewage, roads, &c

    See below

    i do feel slightly beseiged, but I quite enjoy it (for now). With @Casino_Royale gone I am like the last redcoat in Zulu, the drunken malingerer in the sick bay turned hero, shooting up at the thatch as the lefty hordes overwhelm the Drift. Hooky. That was his name. Hooky. Got a VC didn't he?
    The drunken malingerer thing was bullshit, incidentally. He was a lay Methodist preacher and an exemplary soldier, IIRC.

    Also, IIRC, his descendants protested at his portrayal
    Great movie, tho. Really really great

    I imagine it is barely showable now, as it is quite non-Woke
    Apart from it being on woke Channel 4 at new year and on 4OD (maybe still is) it’s barely showable.
    It is on all the bloody time. Not sure what Leon is getting at. I know because it sucks me in every time. The Hook story line is a really good one - bad boy comes good. Shame it is complete fiction and upsets his family so much, but then most films of true events do this as otherwise they would be boring if they were really true accounts.
    I am happy to accept that in this instance - the public broadcasting of Zulu - I am totally wrong, and pleased to be wrong

    It always sucks me in too. The scene where they do the rapid fire shooting is one of the most amazing and rivetting in all cinema. Also the Welsh singing: spine tingling!
    Agree the Welsh singing. Tugs at the heart strings.

    The thing is for most of us when we see and read things the word woke or non-woke doesn't cross our minds unless it is very blatant.

    Even now I am struggling to see what is non-woke in Zulu. I assume it is the nationalism and empire, but that is our history. Only the nutters should get offended. One could even at a stretch see woke elements to the film (I don't) eg the respect for the Zulus, disrespect and failings of Christianity, disrespect for the upper classes (initially).

    Most of us just enjoy a well made film, well acted without any thought of woke.
    This took me 30 seconds to find


    "Sir Michael Caine has described the inclusion of the film Zulu on a list of cultural works that could incite the far right as the “biggest load of bull****” he has ever heard.

    Last month a review of counter-terrorism programme Prevent found that Zulu was among works cited as ‘key texts’ for white nationalists."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/michael-caine-zulu-prevent-far-right-extremism/

    "Nick Ferrari In Fiery Row With Campaigner Over Calls To Ban “Racist” Zulu Film"

    "Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film from Folkestone's Silver Screen Cinema listings"

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/calls-to-axe-racist-zulu-film-from-cinema-185221/

    There are many, many more
    Yes I had already read these before making my post. Initially I was going to respond to your first post about it being non-woke as bollocks and then found you were right and there was stuff out there, so I didn't and made my more considered post above later.

    My point still stands which is referring to the nutters, not the vast majority of normal people.

    Let's face it, it would not be surprising if the far right used this film as well as other films like the Dambusters to get all over patriotic and wet their pants with excitement. Equally most of us are also not in the loon camp who then want to ban films because it encourages 0.001% of the population to march down the street making Nazi salutes.

    Those headlines reflect the loons on both sides, not normal people.

    Racists use DiHydrogen Monoxide extensively. So obviously it should be banned.
    It's very nasty stuff. I understand you can drown in it
    Everyone who consumes it dies.
    As does everyone who doesn't, though.
    Yeah, you can't win, can you? :disappointed:
  • Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

    There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.
    If the universities want to attract more foreign students, then perhaps they should be building somewhere for them to live?
    Plenty of new halls of residence have gone up in Sheffield. Several of which appear to be predominantly chinese.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,876
    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    That isn't what that video says to any sane person

    Now, don't get me wrong,. every person in that queue deserves free dental care, that is our national policy, that is their right. And dentistry in the UK has been SHITE for decades, and getting worse (I get all mine in Bangkok)

    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue (compared to national average) does suggest that part of the problem with our NHS (and much else) is the fact we are allowing in immigrants at an historically unprecedented rate - 1.3m in two years, more, per capita, than ever entered the USA - and that is going to fuck up a free heath service, and much else, unless the economy explodes with growth (which it has not done)

    Of course, much of the blame lies with the Tories, they've been in power 14 years and demonstrably screwed this up. Fie on them
    It demonstrates a longstanding truth, that NHS services are worse in poorer areas. The paucity of the services owes nothing to immigration and everything to a government policy of underfunding the NHS and public services more broadly. Immigration is just the convenient excuse Tory stooges wheel out to cover for the government's failings, lapped up by the week minded.
    Do you really honestly believe that adding 10m people to our population, in a few short years - an influx so vast it is greater (per capita) than America experienced during the era of Ellis Island - has NOT put pressure on our NHS, infra, sewage, education, etc?

    I mean, to me this is so ridiculous it is not debatable. It is blindingly obvious. But if you demur I'm kinda impressed
    Of course, if the government chooses not to fund the necessary expansion of public services. But that is a choice.
    And what if the government literally can't afford to fund this necessary expansion. What then? The obvious answer is: end immigration

    Would you agree with that?
    Even if we accept your premise (I don't) the question is a) how and b) how much does that cost?

    If you end immigration we have to increase spending on borders and visa checks and policing people who do and don't have documentation. We have to have more raids and deportations and such. All this requires infrastructure, training, staff, legal battles, boats etc. that the state does not currently have.

    Whereas, again, the government could spend more on infrastructure that benefits everyone (including immigrants) and do some Keynesian economics at the same time. But the government doesn't want to do that because it is wedded to austerity and only the private sector being able to deliver things.

    Whether it's a new Garden City somewhere or appropriate developments on the edges of existing urban areas - I think we both agree new development wouldn't be bad. It's just that the governments answer to new development will be "let a private company do it and build loads of 4-5 bedroom houses that only well off people can afford, as well as a few luxury flats, and let them be overpriced and sold to landlords or investment companies and therefore not alleviate the pressure on the market at all". And that won't solve the underlying issues of rent and house prices being too high. We need council housing to create a base line of affordable homes of acceptable quality.
    I don't see why a shift in immigration policy to, say, cut the current immigration numbers by 80% would require any significant change in spending on borders and visa checks. We already spend on those. If the government wanted, they could just give out fewer visas.

    There are other reasons why that might not be a good idea. I work in the university sector and we'd be f****d if there was a large drop in overseas student numbers.
    If the universities want to attract more foreign students, then perhaps they should be building somewhere for them to live?
    They are doing, contributing to the housing crisis in university cities and towns. They are far more profitable for developers than standard flats, and they eat up what space is available.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,800
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Our town's dentist is technically an NHS dentists, but apparently you need the luck of the devil to get on the NHS list there (they are very good dentists, if that helps).

    A new dentist has opened up in the town, in a very central location. And from what I see on their website, they don't take NHS patients.

    We're lucky in that we can afford to go private. But many people we know can not, and some don't have cars to take them to NHS dentists elsewhere.

    The system will have to change; I don't know in what way, though.
    I am a member of a village whatsapp group that I forgot to leave. The big thing atm is finding a dentist. Someone needed urgent treatment and then everyone piled in with their views (as is the way). Someone else had googled/investigated that there was no NHS dentist taking new patients within 60 miles of the village.

    It turns out, according to group wisdom, that Mydentist was the preferred option and offers "20% more expensive than the NHS with many benefits that make it worthwhile". From which I can deduce that the NHS isn't free anyway. These are people of a low economic group who are accepting that going private is necessary and anyway not that much more expensive than the NHS.
    No way they are getting real "private" for 20% above NHS costs. Sounds like poundstretchers private.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,137
    Eabhal said:
    Glad to see the SNP, like Labour and Conservatives, refer to *our* NHS.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.
    St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data
    St Paul's has had a large African/Caribbean population since the 1950s (it has had a carnival since the early 1960s and was where the Bristol Bus Boycott started) so will also be home to a significant non white population who are not immigrants and certainly not recent arrivals. I just don't know how one can judge whether the crowd outside the dental practice are recent immigrants or not based on their appearance.
    It all reminds me of some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on her beautiful English. Her parents are Sri Lankan but she was born in Margate and was studying at Cambridge University at the time so her English language skills were not really that surprising.
    People who attended the University of Cambridge speak the best. Fact.

    We also write the best.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878

    ..

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Much of urban Britain is now completely dystopian. That queue for the dentists in St Paul's

    https://x.com/uk8qnzl/status/1754997596521734573?s=20

    Er, you haven't noticed that we have discussed it several times on PB, including Labour's modification of the photo to a Britain Isn't Working-style election poster. But it is always good to remind ourselves that that is the way in which current government policy drills down to the ordinary punter on the street.
    But the obvious BME over-representation in that queue
    This is where you fucked up.
    No, it isn't

    It will be newcomers seeking dentists. Settled citizens (of any stripe) will already have dentists, in the main

    For the last eight years the vast majority of migration into Britain - since Brexit - has been non-white, non-EU. You would therefore expect a queue of new people, presumably seeking a dentist, to be non-white
    Not really. People move around, and will need a new dentist. Existing dental practices shut down and their patients need a new dentist. Plenty of people simply don't have a dentist because NHS dentists in their area won't take new patients. You just looked at a queue of non white people and said "they must be immigrants" on the basis of no information. Given that you live in Camden you have a surprisingly provincial and outdated view of British society.
    St Paul's, Bristol, has one of the higher levels of non-UK-born inhabitants in the country. So, no, I didn't just presume, I looked at the data
    St Paul's has had a large African/Caribbean population since the 1950s (it has had a carnival since the early 1960s and was where the Bristol Bus Boycott started) so will also be home to a significant non white population who are not immigrants and certainly not recent arrivals. I just don't know how one can judge whether the crowd outside the dental practice are recent immigrants or not based on their appearance.
    It all reminds me of some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on her beautiful English. Her parents are Sri Lankan but she was born in Margate and was studying at Cambridge University at the time so her English language skills were not really that surprising.
    Suggesting that British born BAMEs aren’t really British is Goodwin’s latest slippery little trick. I suppose they’re an easy visible target towards which to direct the torch wielding mob.
    "The Scots are as British as anyone," isn't your usual line.
    We’re as British as any other person born in the UK. Polling suggests we don’t feel as strong an attachment to that identity as BAME folk, despite the best efforts of Goodwin and his fellow travellers to put them off.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,137
    Fifty weeks exactly to the next general election, 23rd January, 2025.
This discussion has been closed.