Latest from YouGov not good for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

System · October 2023

Latest from YouGov not good for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak gets his lowest score to date on our 'who would make the best PM' questionRishi Sunak: 20% (-5 from 4-5 Oct)Keir Starmer: 32% (-2)Not sure: 43% (+5)https://t.co/SB5X5Uon8i pic.twitter.com/VMH7nlxO9m

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DavidL · October 2023

LDs on the slide.

eek · October 2023

It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.

Stark_Dawning · October 2023

There must be something in Sir Keir's past that can be used to portray him as a friend of Hamas. Rishi needs to unearth this and disseminate it pronto.

Benpointer · October 2023

Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'

Casino_Royale · October 2023

Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.

University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.

OnlyLivingBoy · October 2023

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.

Does the government have any money? Not a sausage. The Chancellor says we have to "prepare for the wurst."

Casino_Royale · October 2023

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.

Unlucky generals.

That said, Sunak played a bad hand atrociously: scrap HS2, ban fags and extra maths.

No creativity or political insight whatsoever.

NickPalmer · October 2023

Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.

boulay · October 2023

OnlyLivingBoy said:

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.
Does the government have any money? Not a sausage. The Chancellor says we have to "prepare for the wurst."

That’s a banger of a pun.

FeersumEnjineeya · October 2023

OnlyLivingBoy said:

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.
Does the government have any money? Not a sausage. The Chancellor says we have to "prepare for the wurst."

We can expect a lot of salami slicing.

Stark_Dawning · October 2023

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.

I suspect Hunt is doing the lower-expectations game. He and Rishi will be secretly planning a budget bonanza that will blow Sir Keir out the water.

MattW · October 2023

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.

Oooer.

Glad I took a one year freeze deal on Elec / Gas yesterday at 1% below the current cap.

Stuartinromford · October 2023

OnlyLivingBoy said:

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.
Does the government have any money? Not a sausage. The Chancellor says we have to "prepare for the wurst."

But a British Sausage, not an emulsified high-fat offal tube.

IanB2 · October 2023

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.

Certainly, it seems most unlikely that Hamas hasn’t anticipated that a ground invasion would be the Israeli response.

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.

IanB2 · October 2023

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.

This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south

PJH · October 2023

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.

Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.

Casino_Royale · October 2023

Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.

Leon · October 2023

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.

What’s more, all this is happening as everyone gets measurably dumber

IQs down, SATS down, we are tipping into the moronic inferno

Even on here, a pretty bright forum, I have to talk slowly and with simple words so people understand. Like I’m a kindergarten teacher

It gets wearisome

There are a few exceptions - yourself, @Richard_Tyndall, @Richard_Nabavi, @richardDodd, @Martin_Kinsella, @Polruan, @Aberjeffrey, @hunchman, @FormerToryOrange, @gealbhan, @Bromptonaut, @kingbongo, @Edin_Rokz, @HillmanMinx, @YossariansChild, @welshowl, @Ratters, @ukpaul, @Adrian_Harper and the entire moderation team, but everyone else is thick as a brick

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.

I am sure our TurboTubbs will attest to this.

Also, universities are much more proactive in taking into consideration students personal circumstances etc. AFAIK, for every module, the university will provide those running it with list of those who should get extra consideration etc, not just for things like dyslexia but wider ranges of life issues.

Long gone are the day of student should be happy just to even be talked at by some academic and then told to bugger off and learn the rest / do the assignments.

They are "service" providers.

Fairliered · October 2023

DavidL said:
LDs on the slide.

Don’t you mean broken, sleazy LDs on the slide 😆?

Richard_Tyndall · October 2023

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.

The year (1986) I graduated from Cardiff with a Desmond in Geology there were two Firsts and three 2:1s out of a class of 60 or so. And they had to go through a series of vivas to get those awards.

Leon · October 2023

And @LibDem_Colin

Benpointer · October 2023

MattW said:

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.
Oooer.

Glad I took a one year freeze deal on Elec / Gas yesterday at 1% below the current cap.

Just checked - best 1yr fix I can get is 0.7% above current cap. Not bothering.

boulay · October 2023

…

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
What’s more, all this is happening as everyone gets measurably dumber

IQs down, SATS down, we are tipping into the moronic inferno

Even on here, a pretty bright forum, I have to talk slowly and with simple words so people understand. Like I’m a kindergarten teacher

It gets wearisome

There are a few exceptions - yourself, @Richard_Tyndall, @Richard_Nabavi, @richardDodd, @Martin_Kinsella, @Polruan, @Aberjeffrey, @hunchman, @FormerToryOrange, @gealbhan, @Bromptonaut, @kingbongo, @Edin_Rokz, @HillmanMinx, @YossariansChild, @welshowl, @Ratters, @ukpaul, @Adrian_Harper and the entire moderation team, but everyone else is thick as a brick

You missed LadyG, Eadric and SeanT from that lengthy list of your alter egos.

Andy_JS · October 2023

"Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
Germany, Infratest dimap poll:

CDU/CSU-EPP: 29% (+1)
AfD-ID: 23% (+1)
SPD-S&D: 15% (-1)
GRÜNE-G/EFA: 13% (-1)
FDP-RE: 5% (-1)
LINKE-LEFT: 4%
FW-RE: 4% (+1)

+/- vs. 25-27 September 2023

Fieldwork: 10-11 October 2023
Sample size: 1,203"

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1712737524924215519

Fairliered · October 2023

Casino_Royale said:
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.

Bigging up Israel won’t help, if it upsets the Middle East oil producers.

Benpointer · October 2023

FeersumEnjineeya said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

eek said:
It gets worse for Rishi - cancelling HS2 won't even give Rishi any tax cuts with which he can try to bribe voters with

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1712761346817740998

Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
🚨NEW🚨
On the fringes of the IMF meetings in Marrakech, Chancellor @Jeremy_Hunt
tells me govt is facing a £20-30bn increase in debt payments in next month's Autumn Statement.
Weaker growth. Higher gas prices.
"We need to prepare for the worst," he says.
Does the government have any money? Not a sausage. The Chancellor says we have to "prepare for the wurst."
We can expect a lot of salami slicing.

Is there much mortadella-ete off the essential spend?

DecrepiterJohnL · October 2023

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.

Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.

Andy_JS · October 2023

FrancisUrquhart said:
The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.

The police need to get a grip on this sort of crime.

Fairliered · October 2023

Will Humza Yousaf be statesmanlike and offer to assist? https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,humza-yousaf-is-uniquely-placed-to-bridge-divides-in-this-unfolding-tragedy

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

DecrepiterJohnL said:

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.
Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.

Well we all know its a two bit institution ;-)

Last thing on universities....one thing I would say now compared to say 30 years ago, I would suggest that in general students are much more career focused and work to achieve the necessary to move onto that future career. Its less a place you go to piss away 3 years of your life, then decide what you might do, and much more just the next stepping stone in the chain.

The downside is this reinforces that its just about that mindset of get the minimum required grade, and less about the general exposure to interesting and complex ideas and concepts.

Fairliered · October 2023

DecrepiterJohnL said:

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.
Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.

Ah, but a first from Oxford is the equivalent of a 2.2 from Cambridge and a third from a Russell Group university.

jamesdoyle · October 2023

boulay said:
…
Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
What’s more, all this is happening as everyone gets measurably dumber

IQs down, SATS down, we are tipping into the moronic inferno

Even on here, a pretty bright forum, I have to talk slowly and with simple words so people understand. Like I’m a kindergarten teacher

It gets wearisome

There are a few exceptions - yourself, @Richard_Tyndall, @Richard_Nabavi, @richardDodd, @Martin_Kinsella, @Polruan, @Aberjeffrey, @hunchman, @FormerToryOrange, @gealbhan, @Bromptonaut, @kingbongo, @Edin_Rokz, @HillmanMinx, @YossariansChild, @welshowl, @Ratters, @ukpaul, @Adrian_Harper and the entire moderation team, but everyone else is thick as a brick
You missed LadyG, Eadric and SeanT from that lengthy list of your alter egos.

Byronic is waving madly, feeling left out.

Nigelb · October 2023

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
What’s more, all this is happening as everyone gets measurably dumber

IQs down, SATS down, we are tipping into the moronic inferno

Even on here, a pretty bright forum, I have to talk slowly and with simple words so people understand. Like I’m a kindergarten teacher

Says the bloke who has problems with the concept of 'majority' and 'most'.

HYUFD · October 2023

Sunak now doing clearly worse than Boris was when he resigned on the best PM poll v Starmer, albeit Sunak still polling better than Truss when she resigned. Notably both Sunak and Starmer now polling below their parties, neither it seems are net assets for their party as Blair or Boris or Cameron were

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
The police need to get a grip on this sort of crime.

Problem is courts are backed up, prison are full....what's the worst that is going to happen even if the police do investigate...

The individual who threaten Aled Jones and his kid with a machete, who threatened to cut off his arm and robbed him of his Rolex in broad daylight didn't even get prison time.

HYUFD · October 2023

Andy_JS said:
"Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
Germany, Infratest dimap poll:

CDU/CSU-EPP: 29% (+1)
AfD-ID: 23% (+1)
SPD-S&D: 15% (-1)
GRÜNE-G/EFA: 13% (-1)
FDP-RE: 5% (-1)
LINKE-LEFT: 4%
FW-RE: 4% (+1)

+/- vs. 25-27 September 2023

Fieldwork: 10-11 October 2023
Sample size: 1,203"

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1712737524924215519

Looks like centre right v nationalist hard right in Germany as the 2 main parties, even the governing SPD and Greens combined now below the opposition Union

Andy_JS · October 2023

"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

IanB2 said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
Certainly, it seems most unlikely that Hamas hasn’t anticipated that a ground invasion would be the Israeli response.

I suspect that Hamas have bitten off more than they could chew here. I believe their intention was to inflict enough of an atrocity to absolutely kill off dead any Israel/Saudi peace talks, but while expecting America and the west to restrain Israel from going into a full on attack in response.

Far from those who say that Hamas want a full war, I suspect that Hamas wanted to be terrorists, to terrorise Israel and keep peace from occurring but losing their grip on Gaza was not the intention.

Cycles of attack and retaliation aren't ending the hostilities, action needs to be taken break the cycle.

That either means reaching an accommodation with Hamas and agreeing peace with them, or destroying them, there is no realistic middle ground. Since reaching an accommodation with Hamas is impossible, once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how nauseating, is what has to happen.

Hopefully as many civilian deaths as possible can be avoided, but Hamas have to be destroyed.

LostPassword · October 2023

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'

They still lead Labour by 46-25 among over-65s.

One of the things about this is that it must cut across families in a way that voting intention divides by race, social background, etc, would do much less often. Be careful with the Turkey carving knife at Christmas everyone!

Ghedebrav · October 2023

On topic, SKSFPE

HYUFD · October 2023

Final polls before tomorrow's referendum in Australia on a Voice for Aborigines to the Australian Parliament have No ahead by 20%, 7%, 18% and 13% including DKs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum

MattW · October 2023

IanB2 said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south

I read that this morning; imo it is vacuous. Simon Jenkins doesn't really do content.

eek · October 2023

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.

And that's already gone - see my post earlier - interest rates are going to make any tax cuts impossible...

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

It seems from the poll that Sunak is now performing in this series as bad or worse than Boris ever did?

Unsurprising really, Sunak has all the integrity of Boris but without his charm.

Taz · October 2023

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960

Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.

LostPassword · October 2023

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.

The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.

Nigelb · October 2023

Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 24%, Lab 47% (11-12 Oct 2023)
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/47592-voting-intention-con-24-lab-47-11-12-oct-2023

Sean_F · October 2023

DecrepiterJohnL said:

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.
Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.

It’s a bit like the Royal Naval College automatically passing cadets from Gulf States, after they failed a minor royal, who was executed on his return home.

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

LostPassword said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.

With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?

If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.

Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.

Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.

Nigelb · October 2023

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south
I read that this morning; imo it is vacuous. Simon Jenkins doesn't really do content.

A few of the points made, if taken in isolation, aren't ridiculous.
The false dichotomy, between 'levelling up' and building new towns, renders it utterly worthless as commentary.

TimS · October 2023

Nigelb said:
Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 24%, Lab 47% (11-12 Oct 2023)
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/47592-voting-intention-con-24-lab-47-11-12-oct-2023

LLG 62% vs RefCon 32%, almost unchanged from last time. This shows what I suspected might happen - Labour conference bounce at the expense of the Lib Dems - good news for Labour in Mid Beds potentially.

Whatever house effects YouGov have, they seem to be giving Labour some of the highest scores of any of the pollsters in recent months, and the Tories some of the lowest.

Ghedebrav · October 2023

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'

I daresay a coaltion of your FiL types, ex-Kippers confused by Reclorm/Refaim UK, straightforward ABL types, a handful of sad but loyal centrists and, I suspect, pensioners who will get a bung in the spring budget.

Farage has the potential to bring that Tory seat count down to the low hundreds if he had the will and resources to stand against them across England and Wales. Suspect he prefers the entrist option though.

Andy_JS · October 2023

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
The police need to get a grip on this sort of crime.
Problem is courts are backed up, prison are full....what's the worst that is going to happen even if the police do investigate...

The individual who threaten Aled Jones and his kid with a machete, who threatened to cut off his arm and robbed him of his Rolex in broad daylight didn't even get prison time.

The police station in my nearest town closed down recently. That means there's a town with 35,000 people and no police station. Luckily it's a very law-abiding place, but you wonder how long it'll be before criminals from other areas realise they could probably commit crimes there without much chance of being apprehended.

HYUFD · October 2023

Ronaldo could be sentenced to 99 lashes for adultery if he returns to Iran
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12627115/Cristiano-Ronaldo-sentenced-99-lashes-ADULTERY-reports-Iran-claim-photo-painter.html

Stuartinromford · October 2023

BartholomewRoberts said:
It seems from the poll that Sunak is now performing in this series as bad or worse than Boris ever did?

Unsurprising really, Sunak has all the integrity of Boris but without his charm.

And that's probably a good thing for the national conversation.

If you muct have a sewer, much better that it smells like a sewer, as Claud Cockburn put it. Then there's no confusion about whether to drink from it or not.

The curious thing is that it wasn't Rishi's original image. Yes, he was a bit vain ("RISHI SUNAK'S Eat Out To Help Out" and all that) and absurdly rich. But I think we generally thought he had considerably more integrity than Big Dog and a firmer grip on reality than the Truss. Both of those look increasingly shlonky.

Is the whole blooming barrel rotten? And if so, what next for the Apple Conservative Party?

Fairliered · October 2023

Taz said:

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960
Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.

The SNP are experts on tantrums. They have one every time someone supports womens’ rights or criticises their little green helpers.

HYUFD · October 2023

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
The police need to get a grip on this sort of crime.
Problem is courts are backed up, prison are full....what's the worst that is going to happen even if the police do investigate...

The individual who threaten Aled Jones and his kid with a machete, who threatened to cut off his arm and robbed him of his Rolex in broad daylight didn't even get prison time.

He did, 24 months detention

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/aled-jones-daytona-rolex-teenager-detention-order-sentence-chiswick-b1111138.html

Richard_Tyndall · October 2023

Ghedebrav said:

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'
I daresay a coaltion of your FiL types, ex-Kippers confused by Reclorm/Refaim UK, straightforward ABL types, a handful of sad but loyal centrists and, I suspect, pensioners who will get a bung in the spring budget.

Farage has the potential to bring that Tory seat count down to the low hundreds if he had the will and resources to stand against them across England and Wales. Suspect he prefers the entrist option though.

The party of which he is the honourary president have already said they will stand in every seat in England, Wales and Scotland.

HYUFD · October 2023

BartholomewRoberts said:
It seems from the poll that Sunak is now performing in this series as bad or worse than Boris ever did?

Unsurprising really, Sunak has all the integrity of Boris but without his charm.

Sunak is now polling clearly worse than Boris did when he resigned, albeit still better than Truss was when she resigned

Nigelb · October 2023

I'm not sure what lesson to draw from this, other than the prospect of future miseries.

(BBC)
...In the Palestinian refugee camp of Burj al-Shemali, in southern Lebanon, people are preparing for one this afternoon. The camp is run by various Palestinian factions, including Islamic Jihad.

I've come here to meet the mother of one of the militants from that group, who crossed into Israel on Monday and was killed by the Israel Defense Forces. This was one of several incidents involving Israel and militants from Lebanon that have occurred along the border since Hamas attacked Israel on Saturday.

Azab Mousa, 45, said she was “proud” of her son, 22-year-old Hamza, and that she had “encouraged him” to go ahead with the attack. “He told me what he was going to do... I stood by his side and made sure he wasn’t going to give up,” she said.

“If I had 10 sons, I’d send them all to do the same, because we need to reclaim our land.”

The family arrived in Lebanon from Syria in 2011, after the start of the civil war there, and have never been to the place they call Palestine.

Hamza’s brother, 20-year-old Mohammed, said he was not affiliated with any group but that he was willing to do something like what his brother had done. “Every man here is proud of him.”...

SirNorfolkPassmore · October 2023

eek said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
And that's already gone - see my post earlier - interest rates are going to make any tax cuts impossible...

I tend to agree there won't be a bonanza, but the Budget could well be a chance to offer jam tomorrow. It'd be politically preferable for Sunak/Hunt to offer immediate gratification but, to the extent current economic conditions preclude it without a Truss-style market meltdown, the alternative is to set plans for 2025-8... which will only be delivered if you keep Sunak in Number 10 etc. Again, the sales approach would be "long term decisions for a brighter future" (just not a brighter now as it's too tricky).

Ghedebrav · October 2023

Richard_Tyndall said:

Ghedebrav said:

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'
I daresay a coaltion of your FiL types, ex-Kippers confused by Reclorm/Refaim UK, straightforward ABL types, a handful of sad but loyal centrists and, I suspect, pensioners who will get a bung in the spring budget.

Farage has the potential to bring that Tory seat count down to the low hundreds if he had the will and resources to stand against them across England and Wales. Suspect he prefers the entrist option though.
The party of which he is the honourary president have already said they will stand in every seat in England, Wales and Scotland.

They'd need *him* though. Tice is a charisma black hole.

Richard_Tyndall · October 2023

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?

If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.

Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.

Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.

Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.

Nigelb · October 2023

The headline in a conservative publication.

Republicans rudderless as Speaker mess consumes House
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4253701-republicans-rudderless-speaker-mess-house/

jamesdoyle · October 2023

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.
Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.
It’s a bit like the Royal Naval College automatically passing cadets from Gulf States, after they failed a minor royal, who was executed on his return home.

My father once had a minor royal (not Gulf State) turfed out of Dartmouth for drug dealing. Maggie Thatcher tried to tell Dad not to do it, but he ignored her.

FrancisUrquhart · October 2023

HYUFD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
The normalisation of this type of crime in busy areas in broad daylight, the guy getting cash out doesn't even react beyond a shrug.

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1712804159873745059

Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
The police need to get a grip on this sort of crime.
Problem is courts are backed up, prison are full....what's the worst that is going to happen even if the police do investigate...

The individual who threaten Aled Jones and his kid with a machete, who threatened to cut off his arm and robbed him of his Rolex in broad daylight didn't even get prison time.
He did, 24 months detention

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/aled-jones-daytona-rolex-teenager-detention-order-sentence-chiswick-b1111138.html

My apologises...I misremembered, I thought it was suspended sentence.

HYUFD · October 2023

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south
I read that this morning; imo it is vacuous. Simon Jenkins doesn't really do content.

It is a sound article, focus development in and around cities across the country (as Gove is shifting towards and Starmer is partly looking at) not on new towns in the rural South

SirNorfolkPassmore · October 2023

Taz said:

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960
Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.

It's rather rude, and definitely not a sensible way to handle it where the MP alleges bullying (as it suggests she probably was bullied by SNP colleagues).

But is it actually sexist? Accusing someone of a "tantrum" is fairly commonly directed at both male and female politicians who are thought to be behaving childishly - it's a very common insult directed at Trump, for instance.

Accusing a women of being "hysterical" would be sexist due to the word origin and typical use. But a "tantrum"... not sure it is as such.

viewcode · October 2023

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south
I read that this morning; imo it is vacuous. Simon Jenkins doesn't really do content.

I haven't read the link and so cannot speak to its content. But Simon Jenkins was the trigger for my slow-motion falling out from the Grauniad. In the Noughties/early Tens, he wrote an article dismissing new houses because it spoilt his view from the motorway. I said many rude words at that. Silly person.

Malmesbury · October 2023

DecrepiterJohnL said:

PJH said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
Interesting. In my year (at what is now one of the Russell Group) in the late 80s there were just 3 1sts out of about 110, and about 30 2:1s.
Oxford has 95 per cent firsts and upper seconds.

It was said, during WWI, that in the German Armies commanded by the Crown Prince, only suicides could escape being awarded the Iron Cross Second Class.

Carnyx · October 2023

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Taz said:

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960
Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.
It's rather rude, and definitely not a sensible way to handle it where the MP alleges bullying (as it suggests she probably was bullied by SNP colleagues).

But is it actually sexist? Accusing someone of a "tantrum" is fairly commonly directed at both male and female politicians who are thought to be behaving childishly - it's a very common insult directed at Trump, for instance.

Accusing a women of being "hysterical" would be sexist due to the word origin and typical use. But a "tantrum"... not sure it is as such.

Tantrum has clear connotations of childishness, being infantile, and therefore ungendered, I'd have thought. Chambers: sudden fit of childish, uncontrolled bad temper or rage.

Edit: same overtones as throwing one's teddy [out of the pram].

LostPassword · October 2023

LostPassword said:

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'
They still lead Labour by 46-25 among over-65s.

One of the things about this is that it must cut across families in a way that voting intention divides by race, social background, etc, would do much less often. Be careful with the Turkey carving knife at Christmas everyone!

Among under-65s Labour lead the Tories by 54-17.

I think there's a real chance that the oldie vote for the Tories is in part a vote for the incumbent government, and so this gap might reduce if Labour win the election and don't tax the oldies or turn down the pension tap.

Unless the Tories work out how to attract the votes of youngsters, this could lead them to being even more unpopular in opposition, for a while.

Ghedebrav · October 2023

HYUFD said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NickPalmer said:
Conference bounce, but still - well timed for the by-elections too. Apart from black swans, Rishi only has one shot left in his locker - the spring budget.
This critique, from the centre-left, of Labour’s latest (indeed almost sole) new idea, is worth five minutes of your time:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/12/labour-new-towns-cities-south
I read that this morning; imo it is vacuous. Simon Jenkins doesn't really do content.

It is a sound article, focus development in and around cities across the country (as Gove is shifting towards and Starmer is partly looking at) not on new towns in the rural South

Struck me as quite sensible too.

He doesn't mention it (namechecking Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle) but Sheffield is another city that strikes me as absolutely ripe for further development (make your own Threads jokes here, but as a South Yorkshireman and semi-regular visitor to the city still, it has a great location, two big universities, a strong cultural tradition and plenty of this new 'greyfield' stuff I've been hearing about.

Luckyguy1983 · October 2023

Casino_Royale said:
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.

Start fracking.

rottenborough · October 2023

V. interesting piece on an invasion in Gaza and what it would mean with discussion of the laws of war:

"As the war continues and as the destruction mounts, you will hear a number of voices condemn Israel for a disproportionate response, but many of these critics fundamentally misunderstand what proportionality means in the law of war."

"Proportionality does not require the Israel Defense Forces to respond with the same degree of force or take the same proportion of casualties as Hamas. In addition, as the manual states, “the proportionality standard does not require that no incidental harm results from attacks.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/opinion/israel-hamas-isis-gaza.html

Benpointer · October 2023

Nigelb said:
Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 24%, Lab 47% (11-12 Oct 2023)
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/47592-voting-intention-con-24-lab-47-11-12-oct-2023

Er... that's the one in the thread header, is it not?

eek · October 2023

Luckyguy1983 said:

Casino_Royale said:
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.
Start fracking.

Has the Geology of the UK changed overnight?

Fracking simply doesn't make sense in the UK....

Benpointer · October 2023

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Possibly taking people with 2:2s is not exactly hiring the best and the brightest. Given the work undertaken, cryptography, I would have hoped / thought, that a 1st would be required. That is still only filtering for the top 1/3 of graduates.
That's bollocks.

A first often indicates the hardest working, the best prepared, or the best (financially) supported , not necessarily the most brilliant.
I once briefly had a boss who was probably the best paid and most sought-after tax lawyer in the City, who had got a 2:2 at a red brick university. By his own account, he spent too much time tinkering with cars, and was also pretty mediocre at a lot of law... but happened to be a genius in one rather niche area of it.

That's not at all uncommon, I suspect. A lot of people with 2.2s aren't anything like that, of course... but, anecdotally, I have a hunch that there are more geniuses with 2.2s than with 2.1s. I have a 2.1 myself, and it is the degree of the perfectly competent plodder.
University has radically changed since your day.

The grade inflation since introduction of fees over the past 20 years driven by "the market" and also some concern from universities over being sued for bad grades disadvantaging future careers (they have had to fight court cases in the recent past), means that you really have to work hard not to get a 2:1 if you aren't a moron.

A first used to be this rare thing, a 2:1 or a 2:2 quite the norm, and the 3rd for those who weren't really achieving.

Its flipped now, over 75% of graduates get a 2:1 or above because most graduate scheme of any note require it.

Because of all this there has been serious talk of moving to either just percentages or having a "higher" sort of 1st+ award for those achieving an average over 80%+, not the 70% for a 1st, in the same way A-Level has A*.
What’s more, all this is happening as everyone gets measurably dumber

IQs down, SATS down, we are tipping into the moronic inferno

Even on here, a pretty bright forum, I have to talk slowly and with simple words so people understand. Like I’m a kindergarten teacher

It gets wearisome

There are a few exceptions - yourself, @Richard_Tyndall, @Richard_Nabavi, @richardDodd, @Martin_Kinsella, @Polruan, @Aberjeffrey, @hunchman, @FormerToryOrange, @gealbhan, @Bromptonaut, @kingbongo, @Edin_Rokz, @HillmanMinx, @YossariansChild, @welshowl, @Ratters, @ukpaul, @Adrian_Harper and the entire moderation team, but everyone else is thick as a brick

In bold - the only aspect of your post that we all agree with.

Luckyguy1983 · October 2023

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Casino_Royale said:
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.
Start fracking.
Has the Geology of the UK changed overnight?

Fracking simply doesn't make sense in the UK....

The companies that want to spend their own money fracking when they're currently banned from doing so must know less about it than you then I suppose.

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?

If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.

Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.

Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.

Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.

Maybe, maybe not. Though its worth noting that the Battle of Monte Cassino and World War II in general both ended up being Allied victories.

Which is what is needed here, a clear cut Israeli victory.

Whether it makes Gaza easier or tougher for Hamas to defend if it is levelled or not, is operationally something the IDF and Israel needs to worry about.

If destroying it is proportionate to the military objective, then it is a legitimate target though.

The very actions of Hamas, in both their brutality and their using human shields, means there is little alternative.

For those who say don't do this, what is the realistic alternative that will successfully result in the complete destruction of Hamas and prevent further atrocities?

If you don't have an alternative, then this is a proportionate attack if it occurs, because it is necessary to achieve the military objective at a time of war.

Taz · October 2023

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Taz said:

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960
Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.
It's rather rude, and definitely not a sensible way to handle it where the MP alleges bullying (as it suggests she probably was bullied by SNP colleagues).

But is it actually sexist? Accusing someone of a "tantrum" is fairly commonly directed at both male and female politicians who are thought to be behaving childishly - it's a very common insult directed at Trump, for instance.

Accusing a women of being "hysterical" would be sexist due to the word origin and typical use. But a "tantrum"... not sure it is as such.

Maybe it’s regional, it’s just one of those terms, like hissy fit, which seems to be applied more to women than men in my experience.

HYUFD · October 2023

'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

rottenborough said:
V. interesting piece on an invasion in Gaza and what it would mean with discussion of the laws of war:

"As the war continues and as the destruction mounts, you will hear a number of voices condemn Israel for a disproportionate response, but many of these critics fundamentally misunderstand what proportionality means in the law of war."

"Proportionality does not require the Israel Defense Forces to respond with the same degree of force or take the same proportion of casualties as Hamas. In addition, as the manual states, “the proportionality standard does not require that no incidental harm results from attacks.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/opinion/israel-hamas-isis-gaza.html

Precisely my point I have been making.

Proportionality is about what is necessary to achieve your objectives.

So start with what your objective is, and work backwards essentially.

Objective: Destroy Hamas.

What is necessary to do that?

Is there an alternative that would result in fewer civilian casualties without resulting in dramatically more Israeli casualties?

If there is no alternative, then the Israeli response is both proportionate and lawful.

Cyclefree · October 2023

Responded to @maxh on previous thread, if he (or anyone else) is interested.

Completely off topic, parts of Glasgow are really very attractive. There is a wonderful Continental feel to much of the architecture. The flat I am staying in reminds me very much of the flat I grew up in in Italy. It is - at such a time - very comforting.

And the weather is lovely. And the conference I'm attending very inspiring.

Benpointer · October 2023

HYUFD said:
'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20

Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.

Benpointer · October 2023

Luckyguy1983 said:

eek said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Casino_Royale said:
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.

Again.

Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.

Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.
Start fracking.
Has the Geology of the UK changed overnight?

Fracking simply doesn't make sense in the UK....
The companies that want to spend their own money fracking when they're currently banned from doing so must know less about it than you then I suppose.

They probably know that can leave HMG to (literally) pick up the pieces for any damage caused to buildings.

SirNorfolkPassmore · October 2023

Taz said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Taz said:

Andy_JS said:
"MP Lisa Cameron defected to Tories in 'tantrum', says SNP president"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67098960
Not a sexist comment at all, oh no.
It's rather rude, and definitely not a sensible way to handle it where the MP alleges bullying (as it suggests she probably was bullied by SNP colleagues).

But is it actually sexist? Accusing someone of a "tantrum" is fairly commonly directed at both male and female politicians who are thought to be behaving childishly - it's a very common insult directed at Trump, for instance.

Accusing a women of being "hysterical" would be sexist due to the word origin and typical use. But a "tantrum"... not sure it is as such.
Maybe it’s regional, it’s just one of those terms, like hissy fit, which seems to be applied more to women than men in my experience.

The term "hissy fit" itself derives from the word "hysteria", which was a medical condition only diagnosed in women as it was believed to relate to problems with the uterus (hystera being the Greek word). So I entirely see how that would be a sexist term typically (albeit not always) applied to women.

You might be right that "tantrum" is more usually directed at women, and one could potentially do an analysis of newspaper articles etc - though that may be skewed by Trump, who was very frequently accused of throwing tantrums. My hunch is you're not correct due to the word origin, but you could be.

HYUFD · October 2023

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:
'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.

Or how far Wokeism has now infiltrated our big corporate firms not just the public sector, whatever you thought of Sunak or Braverman's remarks and even if you disagreed with them as too anti trans not sure why it needs paid counselling

JosiasJessop · October 2023

Cyclefree said:
Responded to @maxh on previous thread, if he (or anyone else) is interested.

Completely off topic, parts of Glasgow are really very attractive. There is a wonderful Continental feel to much of the architecture. The flat I am staying in reminds me very much of the flat I grew up in in Italy. It is - at such a time - very comforting.

And the weather is lovely. And the conference I'm attending very inspiring.

Until recently, my previous experiences of Glasgow had been conferences in modern halls; changing trains at stations, and the very centre. Then I spent a couple of days walking around it (e.g. along the canal, and down from Milngavie), and found parts of it were surprisingly pleasant. Even as pleasant as Edinburgh in places. And yes, that is high praise from me.

Edit: But Glasgow could make more of its canal, as it does its riverfront.

Benpointer · October 2023

LostPassword said:

Benpointer said:
Frankly, I'm astonished that the Tories still get 24%.

People like my 91 yo father-in-law, I guess - 'voted Conservative all my life and I'm not going to change now'
They still lead Labour by 46-25 among over-65s.

One of the things about this is that it must cut across families in a way that voting intention divides by race, social background, etc, would do much less often. Be careful with the Turkey carving knife at Christmas everyone!

My FiL is frankly quite embarrassed by the Tories, he's just using the 'none of the others would be any better' excuse, but generally he doesn't want to talk about it. He's certainly not going to argue with anyone about politics atm. Stark contrast to the 2019 election.

Theuniondivvie · October 2023

Fairliered said:
Will Humza Yousaf be statesmanlike and offer to assist? https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,humza-yousaf-is-uniquely-placed-to-bridge-divides-in-this-unfolding-tragedy

Would be a dilemma for the Humza haters, go with why is this jumped councillor sticking his nose in or why isn’t he straining every sinew to fix the Middle East? A queasy mixture of both I’d guess.

MaxPB · October 2023

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?

If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.

Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.

Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.

Why is India in green on that map?! India has enough of it's own problems with militant Islamists, why take any more?

Sean_F · October 2023

HYUFD said:
'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20

I think over the past week, we've seen what "fuelling hate" really means.

It doesn't mean "someone said something I mildly disagree with."

HYUFD · October 2023

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:
'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20
I think over the past week, we've seen what "hate" really means.

It doesn't mean "someone said something I mildly disagree with."

Have Jewish staff triggered by Hamas atrocities also been offered paid counselling one might ask?

Sean_F · October 2023

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:
'Lloyds Bank Offers 30,000 Staff Paid BUPA Counselling if Triggered By Conservative Party Conference Trans Rhetoric “Fuelling Hate”
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712807316221743227?s=20
https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1712808597300654555?s=20
I think over the past week, we've seen what "hate" really means.

It doesn't mean "someone said something I mildly disagree with."
Have Jewish staff triggered by Hamas atrocities also been offered paid counselling one might ask?

I think that question probably answers itself.

Carnyx · October 2023

Cyclefree said:
Responded to @maxh on previous thread, if he (or anyone else) is interested.

Completely off topic, parts of Glasgow are really very attractive. There is a wonderful Continental feel to much of the architecture. The flat I am staying in reminds me very much of the flat I grew up in in Italy. It is - at such a time - very comforting.

And the weather is lovely. And the conference I'm attending very inspiring.

Kelvingrove Park is the UNiversity quartier - walk south through the riverside* park at lunchtime perhaps, uni with the art gallery is on the right, and you end up with the city Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum, free entry (not sure about the Mary Quant exhib which I have not seen). Byres Road is good for studenty/hipster cafes but I always liked haggis in the greenhousey restaurant at the ag&m.

DYOR re opening, times etc.

*Kelvin not Clyde
https://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/museums/venues/kelvingrove-art-gallery-and-museum

BartholomewRoberts · October 2023

MaxPB said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

Casino_Royale said:
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.

Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?

If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.

Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.

Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.

Why is India in green on that map?! India has enough of it's own problems with militant Islamists, why take any more?

I didn't make the map, that's the map @Sunil_Prasannan has kept sharing of countries that have recognised Palestine as a state. India is on that list, the UK is not.

Though I imagine to be fair the current Indian government going all over again the current Indian government would probably be wiser and not have made that decision. I don't know, but I'm guessing it was a predecessor government that made the decision?

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