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Rishi Sunak’s chopper is going to get him into a lot of trouble – politicalbetting.com

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  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,030
    DougSeal said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    “Not fast enough”

    For who? You? Sorry but don’t care what you want. It will take also long as it takes until it is done.

    It will also be slow until it is fast.

    “The minefield is killing them a piece at a time”

    Which is why all civilised countries discourage their use. They also don’t distinguish between civilians and combatants. However the analysis indicates that, slow and painful as it may be, Ukraine is on the right side of the assymetric attrition equation.

    “They should redirect their forces in the North East”

    Which has much less strategic significance

    “Going via Belarus”

    Invading a third country would not be a good idea
    "Invading a third country would not be a good idea"

    Whereas demining Zaporizhizhia with people is?

    Asymmetric attrition is very expensive in terms of people, and is based on a faulty assumption - namely, it doesn't matter if you are killing them faster than they are killing you. The important point is land. If you can gain land faster in the North East than in the mid south, then go there.

    Why do you think the Brits fought in the Western Desert in WWIi? Because they could fight there and win.
    I think Brits fought in the Western Desert to stop the Germans getting their hands on oil and the Suez Canal but I may be mistaken.
    👍 yep
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    Sam Freedman
    @Samfr
    ·
    4h
    Think the way grid weeks are becoming publicly discussed things - "small boats week", "NHS week" - might be the thing that finally kills off this 25 year old approach to govt comms that hasn't worked in years.

    https://twitter.com/Samfr

    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    edited August 2023
    ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Interesting thread on the drone war. Looks like the future.

    https://twitter.com/sambendett/status/1690692642357587969?t=0qfIzvcTYBXSqvxWE6obVw&s=19
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,043
    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    In Putin's Russia, Troll posts you!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    edited August 2023
    A
    DougSeal said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up. I've just told you what the most important plank of its strategic significance is. Check with any grownup.
    I genuinely think that Putin is a deeply sexually frustrated man and that’s his reason for continuing the war. It compensates for what he can’t get.
    I have absolutely no idea what you mean, old chap.

    image
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,114

    "Drip" coffee is what we were referring to as filter coffee. Most dedicated coffee shops have moved on from that and invested in better infrastructure, but many cafes still use that.

    Some of the specialty coffee places will do pour-over filter coffee as a specific method too -- there's a "high end" version as well as the "haven't bought an espresso machine" places.

    It's been a long while since I've been in a cafe that only did filter coffee in the "machine that does a big pot" style -- I get the impression that these days they tend to have machines of the "push button for cappuccino" type even if they don't really care about coffee.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    *) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    *) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    *) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    *) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    *) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    The US Navy can't enter Sevastopol. It would be a breach of the Montreux convention.

    Besides, they wouldn't want to, outside the paranoid fantasies of the boy buggerers, oops, Russian government. The US isn't interested in conquering Russia.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Don't (was passes for) coffee shops in UK, have a jug of cream out for customers to put it into their own coffee?

    Standard in USA. Though of course ANY solution though up by Americans, MUST be unsuitable for Britons!

    ADDENDUM - every morning at my local coffee shop, I order a 16-ounce "drip coffee" which is available either dark or light; I ask them for the later but with a little of the former on top.

    Then I add my own cream.
    No.

    You might get that in a café though.

    "Drip" coffee is what we were referring to as filter coffee. Most dedicated coffee shops have moved on from that and invested in better infrastructure, but many cafes still use that.
    In most US coffee shops these days, "drip" coffee is NOT made using an old Mr. Coffee machine, once made famous on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific) by Joe DiMaggio via his ubiquitous commercials.

    Not sure of the precise process, but the "drip" coffee I consume, is indistinguishable (to me anyway) from a fresh-brewed "Americano".

    Personally like, for a bit of fun, to occasionally order a "Canadiano".

    What's that, they ask? An "Americano" with maple syrup, naturally!

    Then I ask them, for my order, to please hold the maple syrup.
  • YestttYesttt Posts: 3

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy?
    No.

    We're more fortunate than the people of Russia and Ukraine who have been dragged into it with Putin's desperate attempt to prove his cock isn't under 2cm long.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Unlike the Russian navy...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Putin is almost certainly a deeply repressed homosexual, IMHO.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    edited August 2023
    DougSeal said:

    Sam Freedman
    @Samfr
    ·
    4h
    Think the way grid weeks are becoming publicly discussed things - "small boats week", "NHS week" - might be the thing that finally kills off this 25 year old approach to govt comms that hasn't worked in years.

    https://twitter.com/Samfr

    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?
    Is that sarcasm, or did I miss something quite interesting?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,661
    ydoethur said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Unlike the Russian navy...
    Increasingly likely to be stored at the bottom of the Black Sea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Seems we're getting double helpings of Russian trolls this weekend. That's good, because I missed the chance to troll the one yesterday and it is quite fun trolling them back.

    The question is, why? Last time we had this much activity was when Prigozhin went off on one and Putin had that panic attack. Has something dramatic happened that the Russians are trying to cover up?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Cameron had an Andy Coulson, who used to give him a weekly briefing sheet on the price of anything a politician had ever been asked, and the price of anything that had been in the news recently.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,043
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    You should go to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by Capitalism:

    https://youtu.be/g1Sq1Nr58hM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Sandpit said:

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Cameron had an Andy Coulson, who used to give him a weekly briefing sheet on the price of anything a politician had ever been asked, and the price of anything that had been in the news recently.
    I wonder what Johnson's answer would be if he were asked what the price of a peerage is?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,787
    stodge said:

    I've not commented much on the Ukraine.

    The truth is we've got "used" to it - the killing and the dying continues in the background for us and even (it seems) for some of western Ukraine. The early uncertainties and fears of escalation into something of potentially global import have for now receded.

    The conflict is contained - it's more akin to the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s which began with huge threats to global oil supplies but de-escalated into a conflict of attrition.

    I've reached the conclusion for many beyond the Ukraine and Russia, the status quo of the current conflict works and will be maintained. We'll do enough to ensure Ukraine doesn't lose - presumably we will also do enough to ensure Russia doesn't lose as well.

    and that (for all the high minded discussion of whether Putin is gay) is Realpolitik . Its what makes the world the world it is.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,030

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    1) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    2) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    3) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    4) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    5) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
    Added numbers to your post for clarity

    1&2 are correct
    3 - not really
    4 - yes but this isn’t demonstrated here
    5 - no: the generals are praised for hitting something so it’s not stupid

    6 - he thinks it provides ammunition for the lily livered pantywaisted peaceniks in Western Europe

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    stodge said:

    I've not commented much on the Ukraine.

    The truth is we've got "used" to it - the killing and the dying continues in the background for us and even (it seems) for some of western Ukraine. The early uncertainties and fears of escalation into something of potentially global import have for now receded.

    The conflict is contained - it's more akin to the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s which began with huge threats to global oil supplies but de-escalated into a conflict of attrition.

    I've reached the conclusion for many beyond the Ukraine and Russia, the status quo of the current conflict works and will be maintained. We'll do enough to ensure Ukraine doesn't lose - presumably we will also do enough to ensure Russia doesn't lose as well.

    and that (for all the high minded discussion of whether Putin is gay) is Realpolitik . Its what makes the world the world it is.
    It isn't really. Iran and Iraq were not the world's third and eighth largest producers of grain.

    That's particularly pertinent given much of the northern hemisphere looks set to have a pretty shocking harvest this year due to adverse weather.

    While they were (and are) major oil producers, so is Russia. So even that doesn't help.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,030
    edited August 2023
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    The difference is one of risk and reward. The US would not have risked war with Russia to stop them using Sevastopol. Russia was willing to risk war with the US in 2014 to secure it.

    Before this latest invasion, Russia occupying Sevastopol was a fait accompli. And the US could live with that. But the f**kwits in Moscow have put it back on the table.

    And Ukraine wants Crimea for the gas.

    Interests are aligned.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    pm215 said:

    "Drip" coffee is what we were referring to as filter coffee. Most dedicated coffee shops have moved on from that and invested in better infrastructure, but many cafes still use that.

    Some of the specialty coffee places will do pour-over filter coffee as a specific method too -- there's a "high end" version as well as the "haven't bought an espresso machine" places.

    It's been a long while since I've been in a cafe that only did filter coffee in the "machine that does a big pot" style -- I get the impression that these days they tend to have machines of the "push button for cappuccino" type even if they don't really care about coffee.

    My folks still have an original 1970s Cona. Beautiful to look at and great coffee.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Blimey, Saturday comes around again quickly these days.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    The US has no desire to enter or occupy Sevastopol. But they would rather Russia doesn’t have it.

    Before this latest invasion, Russia occupying Sevastopol was a fait accompli. And the US could live with that. But the f**kwits in Moscow have put it back on the table.

    And Ukraine wants Crimea for the gas.

    Interests are aligned.
    And for control of the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait. Particularly to get rid of the bridge, which was partly constructed to blockade Mariupol.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    No I don’t

    I think there are too many people on this site living in an echo chamber of yay Ukraine, win win win

    And having now actually been to Ukraine this month, and talked to Ukrainians in Ukraine, I think I can speak with a smidgen more authority than more. Just a smidgen mind. Nothing dramatic. I’m not suddenly claiming to be Basil Liddell Hart of Bakhmut
    Anti-personnel mines are very nasty but they've been around for decades and don't form an impenetrable barrier, and we don't send men over the top anymore, en mass, to defuse them.

    Artillery and air power are far more likely to inhibit Ukrainian offensives, and cause casualties.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,114
    Sandpit said:

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Cameron had an Andy Coulson, who used to give him a weekly briefing sheet on the price of anything a politician had ever been asked, and the price of anything that had been in the news recently.
    The politician still has to care enough to read and memorise the briefing, though. I bet even if his staffers had done the research work Johnson would never have even read it, let alone remembered anything in it. (Arguably correctly so -- Cameron was more likely to be posed the question and Boris could bluff and joke his way out of it.)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,627
    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Today's main debate is about coffee. Do you like instant coffee? ☕
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    A

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    *) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    *) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    *) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    *) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    *) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
    The types of weapons they are using for the civilian strikes are not especially good at precision strikes on land. Quite a few lash ups from old anti ship missiles etc.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    *) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    *) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    *) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    *) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    *) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
    If you intercept missiles, it still results in things on the ground being hit, albeit not the intended targets.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    A

    stodge said:

    I've not commented much on the Ukraine.

    The truth is we've got "used" to it - the killing and the dying continues in the background for us and even (it seems) for some of western Ukraine. The early uncertainties and fears of escalation into something of potentially global import have for now receded.

    The conflict is contained - it's more akin to the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s which began with huge threats to global oil supplies but de-escalated into a conflict of attrition.

    I've reached the conclusion for many beyond the Ukraine and Russia, the status quo of the current conflict works and will be maintained. We'll do enough to ensure Ukraine doesn't lose - presumably we will also do enough to ensure Russia doesn't lose as well.

    and that (for all the high minded discussion of whether Putin is gay) is Realpolitik . Its what makes the world the world it is.
    Who is saying that Putin is gay?

    image
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    No I don’t

    I think there are too many people on this site living in an echo chamber of yay Ukraine, win win win

    And having now actually been to Ukraine this month, and talked to Ukrainians in Ukraine, I think I can speak with a smidgen more authority than more. Just a smidgen mind. Nothing dramatic. I’m not suddenly claiming to be Basil Liddell Hart of Bakhmut
    Anti-personnel mines are very nasty but they've been around for decades and don't form an impenetrable barrier, and we don't send men over the top anymore, en mass, to defuse them.

    Artillery and air power are far more likely to inhibit Ukrainian offensives, and cause casualties.
    Last autumn Ukraine got a few lightly-armed jeeps well behind Russian lines, causing chaos for the enemy. It seemed a bit to me like the Long-Range Desert Group back in WW2 (I might be wrong...)

    The mines make that approach much more difficult, if not impossible. They make maneuver warfare very costly and much slower.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    The difference is one of risk and reward. The US would not have risked war with Russia to stop them using Sevastopol. Russia was willing to risk war with the US in 2014 to secure it.

    Before this latest invasion, Russia occupying Sevastopol was a fait accompli. And the US could live with that. But the f**kwits in Moscow have put it back on the table.

    And Ukraine wants Crimea for the gas.

    Interests are aligned.
    The US has no need or interest in a naval base that simply presents a fixed target in easy reach of a potential enemy. They prefer to use a form of naval power that has range.

    The “strategic naval base” next to the enemy went out of fashion before WWI - see Heligoland.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    *) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    *) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    *) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    *) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    *) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
    If you intercept missiles, it still results in things on the ground being hit, albeit not the intended targets.
    A solid hit detonates the warhead, meaning that the ground is hit by a collection of scrap. A opposed to a ton or so of TNT right next to something,
  • Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    :innocent:


  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,043
    edited August 2023

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Today's main debate is about coffee. Do you like instant coffee? ☕
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raf_coffee

    "Raf or raf coffee is a popular coffee drink in Russia and the countries of the former USSR, which appeared in the late 1990s. Prepared by adding cream and vanilla sugar to a single shot of espresso and then foaming the mix with a steam heater. The main differences from latte are the use of vanilla sugar and cream instead of milk and the fact that the whole mix is foamed together instead of just milk. Syrup is often used instead of vanilla sugar."
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    stodge said:

    I've not commented much on the Ukraine.

    The truth is we've got "used" to it - the killing and the dying continues in the background for us and even (it seems) for some of western Ukraine. The early uncertainties and fears of escalation into something of potentially global import have for now receded.

    The conflict is contained - it's more akin to the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s which began with huge threats to global oil supplies but de-escalated into a conflict of attrition.

    I've reached the conclusion for many beyond the Ukraine and Russia, the status quo of the current conflict works and will be maintained. We'll do enough to ensure Ukraine doesn't lose - presumably we will also do enough to ensure Russia doesn't lose as well.

    Oh I don't think the latter is the case - the plan seems to be to ensure Russia loses access to Crimea with all the political impact that will have..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139

    Ratters said:

    The liberation of Kherson was now 9 months' ago now.

    It's fair to say the second half of the war has been more of a stalemate then the first.

    Hopefully there will be a significant breakthrough before long.

    Ukraine held off a counteroffensive

    They waited through the mud season

    They are gradually attriting Russian positions and strangling Crimea.

    Not everything works to a 24 hour new cycle
    Attrition is massively important IMO. We see lots of videos and pictures of Ukraine blatting Russia far behind Russian lines - from ammunition dumps to communication lines. We see lots of videos of Russia hitting behind Ukrainian lines, but they *appear* to be much more targeted on civilian infrastructure.

    Appearances can be deceptive, of course: it would be that Russia is regularly hitting vital Ukrainian units, and have really destroyed 5,194 Himars unit as they claim, and the Ukrainians are keeping the behind-the-lines losses very secret.

    But IMO this is what will break one side or the other: attrition, particularly over logistics. Such a break could be very sudden. And I doubt Russia will be advantaged by keeping on hitting the targets they *appear* to be currently hitting - just as the war on Ukraine's power infrastructure did not work over the winter.
    That’s what I meant when I said it would be slow until it is fast
    It's why I don't understand Russian targeting. We are not seeing lots of Ukrainian weaponry and stores being destroyed tens of km away from the lines; what we are seeing is civilian infrastructure being destroyed. Perhaps there are things we are not seeing, but we know we are seeing Russia hitting civilian infrastructure.

    Some non-exclusive possibilities:
    *) Russia and Putin feel they can destroy Ukrainian resolve by targeting civilians, despite that rarely having worked.
    *) They are performing the same strategy they did in Syria, Chechnya etc, as it is what they know.
    *) Putin wants Ukrainian civilians to undergo a punishment beating.
    *) Russia's long-range weaponry are even less accurate than we thought.
    *) They're being stupid and don't care what they hit, as long as they hot something.
    If you intercept missiles, it still results in things on the ground being hit, albeit not the intended targets.
    Yes, there's probably some of that as well.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,939

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Don't (was passes for) coffee shops in UK, have a jug of cream out for customers to put it into their own coffee?

    Standard in USA. Though of course ANY solution though up by Americans, MUST be unsuitable for Britons!

    ADDENDUM - every morning at my local coffee shop, I order a 16-ounce "drip coffee" which is available either dark or light; I ask them for the later but with a little of the former on top.

    Then I add my own cream.
    Cream should be poured over your pudding, not added to your coffee.

    And don't get me started on that "Half and half" abomination.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    edited August 2023
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sam Freedman
    @Samfr
    ·
    4h
    Think the way grid weeks are becoming publicly discussed things - "small boats week", "NHS week" - might be the thing that finally kills off this 25 year old approach to govt comms that hasn't worked in years.

    https://twitter.com/Samfr

    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?
    Is that sarcasm, or did I miss something quite interesting?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Don't (was passes for) coffee shops in UK, have a jug of cream out for customers to put it into their own coffee?

    Standard in USA. Though of course ANY solution though up by Americans, MUST be unsuitable for Britons!

    ADDENDUM - every morning at my local coffee shop, I order a 16-ounce "drip coffee" which is available either dark or light; I ask them for the later but with a little of the former on top.

    Then I add my own cream.
    Cream should be poured over your pudding, not added to your coffee.

    And don't get me started on that "Half and half" abomination.
    The whole problem is solved if you abandon coffee and drink hot chocolate instead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    edited August 2023
    Nigelb said:


    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:



    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?

    Is that sarcasm, or did I miss something quite interesting?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html
    Oh, so they haven't finally locked the stupid git up for his academy chains disaster that have involuntarily screwed millions of people?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:


    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:



    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?

    Is that sarcasm, or did I miss something quite interesting?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html
    Oh, so they haven't finally locked the stupid git up for his academy chains disaster that have involuntarily screwed millions of people?
    No, this is the crypto exchange Bahamas dude.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    CatMan said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    Today's main debate is about coffee. Do you like instant coffee? ☕
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raf_coffee

    "Raf or raf coffee is a popular coffee drink in Russia and the countries of the former USSR, which appeared in the late 1990s. Prepared by adding cream and vanilla sugar to a single shot of espresso and then foaming the mix with a steam heater. The main differences from latte are the use of vanilla sugar and cream instead of milk and the fact that the whole mix is foamed together instead of just milk. Syrup is often used instead of vanilla sugar."
    Yuk!
  • dixiedean said:

    Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    At least Cookie has succulent plums.
    There's always that.
    At least that gave me a laugh!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    The difference is one of risk and reward. The US would not have risked war with Russia to stop them using Sevastopol. Russia was willing to risk war with the US in 2014 to secure it.

    Before this latest invasion, Russia occupying Sevastopol was a fait accompli. And the US could live with that. But the f**kwits in Moscow have put it back on the table.

    And Ukraine wants Crimea for the gas.

    Interests are aligned.
    The US has no need or interest in a naval base that simply presents a fixed target in easy reach of a potential enemy. They prefer to use a form of naval power that has range.

    The “strategic naval base” next to the enemy went out of fashion before WWI - see Heligoland.
    To be fair Heligoland has been much more popular as a toy based family resort since it moved to Windsor than it ever had as an island in the North Sea.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,052
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    No I don’t

    I think there are too many people on this site living in an echo chamber of yay Ukraine, win win win

    And having now actually been to Ukraine this month, and talked to Ukrainians in Ukraine, I think I can speak with a smidgen more authority than more. Just a smidgen mind. Nothing dramatic. I’m not suddenly claiming to be Basil Liddell Hart of Bakhmut
    More Judith Chalmers in fact...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,030

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    Yesttt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    Did you notice the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia at all?
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I hate to point out again what I have continually been pointing out for over a month now. The Ukrainians have only advanced between 15 and 30km south of Orkhiv in the last three months. They are not gaining ground fast enough. They need to go around or go over, because the minefield is killing them a piece at a time. Mines do not care for courage or grim determination, they kill the strong and the weak alike. They should redirect their forces in the North East, where the land is not so heavily mined and they can cheat by going via Belarus.

    Leaving aside the geography of the Ukrainian/Belarus border is not the best for military manoeuvres - which was to Ukraine's advantage in the attack on Kyiv - Zelensky would be mad to take any action that might bring Belarus into the war, particularly since it would infuriate the Americans.

    I suspect in any case you're misjudging his strategic aim. It seems to be to isolate Crimea and force the Russians out of it in the belief they will then lose interest in Eastern Ukraine.

    Whether he's right or not I don't know, but it's at least logical. Russia does seem unreasonably obsessed with the Crimea.

    Maybe the lack of desire for the US Navy to enter Sevastopol has something to do with it?

    FFS...all these so-wise pronunciations. Some things should be obvious.
    Привет товарищ
    Have you ever been involved in a conflict, little fake-oh, super-boring, couldn't quite manage to make his mark in online psywar boy? I mean a conflict where you actually contributed, rather than being the village idiot on one of the sides, or a mere gunslinger. How did you understand it without trying to understand your enemy's POV? If you think Sevastopol isn't strategically important, frankly you should just shut up.
    I’d argue it’s more strategically important to the Russians (Tarsus just doesn’t cut it) than to the Americans. But sometimes it’s a win to deny something to an enemy

    And make no mistake. China is a rival. Russia is an enemy.
    If a resource is strategically important to a strategic enemy, yes it's a strategic win to deny it to them. Not much gets past you, eh?
    The difference is one of risk and reward. The US would not have risked war with Russia to stop them using Sevastopol. Russia was willing to risk war with the US in 2014 to secure it.

    Before this latest invasion, Russia
    occupying Sevastopol was a fait accompli. And the US could live with that. But the f**kwits in Moscow have put it back on the table.

    And Ukraine wants Crimea for the gas.

    Interests are aligned.
    The US has no need or interest in a naval base that simply presents a fixed target in easy reach of a potential enemy. They prefer to use a form of naval power that has range.

    The “strategic naval base” next to the enemy went out of fashion before WWI - see Heligoland.
    You need repair and resupply bases.

    Souda Bay is has more than sufficient capacity, is better located and less risky than Sevastopol
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:


    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:



    Isn’t Sam in jail for breach of his bail conditions?

    Is that sarcasm, or did I miss something quite interesting?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/11/us-judge-sends-sam-bankman-fried-to-jail-over-witness-tampering.html
    Oh, so they haven't finally locked the stupid git up for his academy chains disaster that have involuntarily screwed millions of people?
    Not yet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    edited August 2023
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    It's a lot bigger than the old Tynedale now. Taking in bits of western Newcastle, a major new housing development in Morpeth and some rural land out towards Ashington and Bedlington too.
    Which is why Hexham is a curious name. It isn't really centred on there any more.
    And Prudhoe and Ponteland are just as big settlements within its boundaries.
  • . . . yet another attack upon Truth, Justice and the British Way, by incorrigibly Anglo-phobic New York Times . . .

    NYT ($) - Do These Shoes Make Me Look Like a Tourist?
    A reader asks: to sneaker or not to sneaker?

    Q: I’ll be visiting Europe for the first time this summer and need advice for stylish walking shoes. I mainly wear dresses, but if I wear ballet flats while walking all day, my feet tend to swell up (not an issue with sneakers, but no way). Do you have any suggestions for a more closed shoe that wouldn’t out me as l’américaine? — Jennifer, Seattle


    A: By your shoes, they shall know you. I’m not entirely kidding. Shoes may not be the windows to the soul, but for a long time they were the source of national stereotype.

    Germans, it was said, were the travelers in sandals and white athletic socks. You could tell an Italian banker because he was the one in brown shoes, no matter what color his suit. The British, on the other hand, went around intoning “no brown in town.” American tourists wore sneakers.

    But that was then! Between the explosion of sneaker culture, the “fashionization” of Birkenstocks and the general rise of comfort clothing, those old lines have started to blur. If Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader, can wear sneakers to a meeting in the Oval Office, and Serena Williams can wear them to the Met Gala, Americans can wear them in Europe. So, for that matter, can Europeans. (So, for that matter, do Europeans.)

    Indeed, sneakers and Birks are by no means the giveaways they once were. They are pretty much an integral part of every wardrobe, not to mention every designer collection on Avenue Montaigne. So don’t be so quick to dismiss them.

    According to Dana Thomas, an author (and New York Times contributor) who has lived in Paris for more than two decades, the only footwear that really screams “tourist” these days is Crocs. . . .

    SSI - notice the not-so-subtle dig at "no brown in town" implying the British - or at least the English - are all racists!
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Don't (was passes for) coffee shops in UK, have a jug of cream out for customers to put it into their own coffee?

    Standard in USA. Though of course ANY solution though up by Americans, MUST be unsuitable for Britons!

    ADDENDUM - every morning at my local coffee shop, I order a 16-ounce "drip coffee" which is available either dark or light; I ask them for the later but with a little of the former on top.

    Then I add my own cream.
    Cream should be poured over your pudding, not added to your coffee.

    And don't get me started on that "Half and half" abomination.
    You can put saltpetre in YOUR coffee for all I care. Then see IF your cream your pudding!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    edited August 2023

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    We could merge the two West Bromwich seats, so we have West Bromwich East West.

    But sadly they went for West Bromwich, and Tipton and Wednesbury.
  • Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    .

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another telling paragraph from that awful Russian mine story. This is a Ukrainian source speaking:


    “Yuri Sak, an adviser to the ministry of defence, is less convinced. “They have been preparing for a war in which they mine from Poland to Lisbon,” he said. “I fear they have enough.””

    The war is possibly over. In terms of Ukraine “winning”. I hope I am wrong and I am happy to be persuaded otherwise. But it seems to me that Putin has successfully defended his gains

    As the Ukrainians say in the article, even if they had the right kit it wouldn’t do the job. They are running out of men

    The war is not 'possibly' over, and will not be as long as Ukraine and Ukrainians wants to fight. Having seen what Russia does to 'conquered' territories post-2014 and post-2022, my guess is that the fighting spirit will remain strong.

    But it also requires the west to back them for as long as they want to fight. Beware of doing Putin's job for him.
    This is so fucking tiresome. Merely pointing out that the Ukraine attack is now bogged down in Russian minefields - and losing terrible numbers of men - does not make me a Putinist. It is the case. Read the articles. Ukrainians themselves are saying it
    You're fine, but I think the issue is more that you keep stating the obvious (that Russia will take a lot of shifting from Ukraine, might never be, and it will be long and bloody either way) in a tone more suited to delivering an outlier view or a scoop.
    But it IS received as an outlying position. Look at the people on this thread accusing me of purveying “doom porn”. It’s irritating
    I think you misunderstand slightly. It's an empathy thing. This war is unusual in that one side is clearly and wholly in the wrong. We almost all desperately want them to lose. So your repeated postings of the obvious fact that this might not happen anytime soon if at all comes across as taunting. No, too strong, needling. Because that's its only effect. To needle. See what I'm driving at?
    No I don’t

    I think there are too many people on this site living in an echo chamber of yay Ukraine, win win win

    And having now actually been to Ukraine this month, and talked to Ukrainians in Ukraine, I think I can speak with a smidgen more authority than more. Just a smidgen mind. Nothing dramatic. I’m not suddenly claiming to be Basil Liddell Hart of Bakhmut
    Anti-personnel mines are very nasty but they've been around for decades and don't form an impenetrable barrier, and we don't send men over the top anymore, en mass, to defuse them.

    Artillery and air power are far more likely to inhibit Ukrainian offensives, and cause casualties.
    Last autumn Ukraine got a few lightly-armed jeeps well behind Russian lines, causing chaos for the enemy. It seemed a bit to me like the Long-Range Desert Group back in WW2 (I might be wrong...)

    The mines make that approach much more difficult, if not impossible. They make maneuver warfare very costly and much slower.
    Anti-personnel mines are a problem for troops on foot.

    They aren't in APCs or Tanks. Shortage of those is probably the problem.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    edited August 2023

    . . . yet another attack upon Truth, Justice and the British Way, by incorrigibly Anglo-phobic New York Times . . .

    NYT ($) - Do These Shoes Make Me Look Like a Tourist?
    A reader asks: to sneaker or not to sneaker?

    Q: I’ll be visiting Europe for the first time this summer and need advice for stylish walking shoes. I mainly wear dresses, but if I wear ballet flats while walking all day, my feet tend to swell up (not an issue with sneakers, but no way). Do you have any suggestions for a more closed shoe that wouldn’t out me as l’américaine? — Jennifer, Seattle


    A: By your shoes, they shall know you. I’m not entirely kidding. Shoes may not be the windows to the soul, but for a long time they were the source of national stereotype.

    Germans, it was said, were the travelers in sandals and white athletic socks. You could tell an Italian banker because he was the one in brown shoes, no matter what color his suit. The British, on the other hand, went around intoning “no brown in town.” American tourists wore sneakers.

    But that was then! Between the explosion of sneaker culture, the “fashionization” of Birkenstocks and the general rise of comfort clothing, those old lines have started to blur. If Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader, can wear sneakers to a meeting in the Oval Office, and Serena Williams can wear them to the Met Gala, Americans can wear them in Europe. So, for that matter, can Europeans. (So, for that matter, do Europeans.)

    Indeed, sneakers and Birks are by no means the giveaways they once were. They are pretty much an integral part of every wardrobe, not to mention every designer collection on Avenue Montaigne. So don’t be so quick to dismiss them.

    According to Dana Thomas, an author (and New York Times contributor) who has lived in Paris for more than two decades, the only footwear that really screams “tourist” these days is Crocs. . . .

    SSI - notice the not-so-subtle dig at "no brown in town" implying the British - or at least the English - are all racists!

    Your stout defence of the NYT is admirable. My mother in law was very put out when I kept hiding her copy while visiting her in Connecticut.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    After the success of their "Stop the Boats Week" during which record numbers of asylum seekers made it across the Channel, and sadly some didn't, inmates had to be taken off the controversial and extremely expensive Stockholm Bibby barge because they didn't bother to check for legionella, and when the Tory Party descended into infighting ... the government is now moving straight onto ... "NHS Week". I wonder what remarkable achievements they have in store for us, for NHS Week?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    Given Germany's history one can understand the panic but banning it will simply move the dissent into extra-democratic channels.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    FF43 said:

    After the success of their "Stop the Boats Week" during which record numbers of asylum seekers made it across the Channel, and sadly some didn't, inmates had to be taken off the controversial and extremely expensive Stockholm Bibby barge because they didn't bother to check for legionella, and when the Tory Party descended into infighting ... the government is now moving straight onto ... "NHS Week". I wonder what remarkable achievements they have in store for us, for NHS Week?

    40 new hospitals, to replace the 55 hospitals they accidentally burn down.
  • ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
  • Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    OMG I'm sounding like a doom monger, not my usual optimistic self. Probably too much wine with dinner. Sorry.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,860
    FF43 said:

    After the success of their "Stop the Boats Week" during which record numbers of asylum seekers made it across the Channel, and sadly some didn't, inmates had to be taken off the controversial and extremely expensive Stockholm Bibby barge because they didn't bother to check for legionella, and when the Tory Party descended into infighting ... the government is now moving straight onto ... "NHS Week". I wonder what remarkable achievements they have in store for us, for NHS Week?

    The total collapse of the NHS, probably.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    You could have your kitchen in the garage.

    Believe me, that's bloody annoying.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    DougSeal said:

    . . . yet another attack upon Truth, Justice and the British Way, by incorrigibly Anglo-phobic New York Times . . .

    NYT ($) - Do These Shoes Make Me Look Like a Tourist?
    A reader asks: to sneaker or not to sneaker?

    Q: I’ll be visiting Europe for the first time this summer and need advice for stylish walking shoes. I mainly wear dresses, but if I wear ballet flats while walking all day, my feet tend to swell up (not an issue with sneakers, but no way). Do you have any suggestions for a more closed shoe that wouldn’t out me as l’américaine? — Jennifer, Seattle


    A: By your shoes, they shall know you. I’m not entirely kidding. Shoes may not be the windows to the soul, but for a long time they were the source of national stereotype.

    Germans, it was said, were the travelers in sandals and white athletic socks. You could tell an Italian banker because he was the one in brown shoes, no matter what color his suit. The British, on the other hand, went around intoning “no brown in town.” American tourists wore sneakers.

    But that was then! Between the explosion of sneaker culture, the “fashionization” of Birkenstocks and the general rise of comfort clothing, those old lines have started to blur. If Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader, can wear sneakers to a meeting in the Oval Office, and Serena Williams can wear them to the Met Gala, Americans can wear them in Europe. So, for that matter, can Europeans. (So, for that matter, do Europeans.)

    Indeed, sneakers and Birks are by no means the giveaways they once were. They are pretty much an integral part of every wardrobe, not to mention every designer collection on Avenue Montaigne. So don’t be so quick to dismiss them.

    According to Dana Thomas, an author (and New York Times contributor) who has lived in Paris for more than two decades, the only footwear that really screams “tourist” these days is Crocs. . . .

    SSI - notice the not-so-subtle dig at "no brown in town" implying the British - or at least the English - are all racists!

    Your stout defence of the NYT is admirable. My mother in law was very put out when I kept hiding her copy while visiting her in Connecticut.
    Don't knock the New York Times.

    They gave us Wordle.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    The latest YouGov poll in Germany has them even higher:

    CDU/CSU - 27 %
    AfD - 23 %
    SPD - 17 %
    Greens - 14 %
    Linke - 6 %
    FDP - 5 %

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/yougov.htm
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Presumably 'and the Andouillettes' is somewhere in LA?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Can you imagine the arguments come redistricting? You’d get lawsuits over which town/locality got priority in such amalgamated names. I’m surprised it doesn’t happen here. People in these parts hit the roof over a proposal to rename “Canterbury” to “Canterbury and Whitstable”. Proud people in Durovernum Cantiacorum.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Great pic of the back of Trump’s head with this.
    Anyone know what the @*&! is going on with it ?

    https://twitter.com/politicoalex/status/1690775779523567616
    DeSantis super PAC officials were involved in an altercation with Trump supporters at a Des Moines bar late Friday night, per 3 eyewitness accounts
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Or 'North Florida and the Orange Haired Twats?'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Can you imagine the arguments come redistricting? You’d get lawsuits over which town/locality got priority in such amalgamated names. I’m surprised it doesn’t happen here. People in these parts hit the roof over a proposal to rename “Canterbury” to “Canterbury and Whitstable”. Proud people in Durovernum Cantiacorum.
    Once you accept these names though, the world's your oyster.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    OMG I'm sounding like a doom monger, not my usual optimistic self. Probably too much wine with dinner. Sorry.
    You’ve been reading Leon’s posts. Reading him in lockdown seriously fucked with my head at points. Then there was the whole Threads thing. Now the AI apocalypse…
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    . . . yet another attack upon Truth, Justice and the British Way, by incorrigibly Anglo-phobic New York Times . . .

    NYT ($) - Do These Shoes Make Me Look Like a Tourist?
    A reader asks: to sneaker or not to sneaker?

    Q: I’ll be visiting Europe for the first time this summer and need advice for stylish walking shoes. I mainly wear dresses, but if I wear ballet flats while walking all day, my feet tend to swell up (not an issue with sneakers, but no way). Do you have any suggestions for a more closed shoe that wouldn’t out me as l’américaine? — Jennifer, Seattle


    A: By your shoes, they shall know you. I’m not entirely kidding. Shoes may not be the windows to the soul, but for a long time they were the source of national stereotype.

    Germans, it was said, were the travelers in sandals and white athletic socks. You could tell an Italian banker because he was the one in brown shoes, no matter what color his suit. The British, on the other hand, went around intoning “no brown in town.” American tourists wore sneakers.

    But that was then! Between the explosion of sneaker culture, the “fashionization” of Birkenstocks and the general rise of comfort clothing, those old lines have started to blur. If Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader, can wear sneakers to a meeting in the Oval Office, and Serena Williams can wear them to the Met Gala, Americans can wear them in Europe. So, for that matter, can Europeans. (So, for that matter, do Europeans.)

    Indeed, sneakers and Birks are by no means the giveaways they once were. They are pretty much an integral part of every wardrobe, not to mention every designer collection on Avenue Montaigne. So don’t be so quick to dismiss them.

    According to Dana Thomas, an author (and New York Times contributor) who has lived in Paris for more than two decades, the only footwear that really screams “tourist” these days is Crocs. . . .

    SSI - notice the not-so-subtle dig at "no brown in town" implying the British - or at least the English - are all racists!

    Your stout defence of the NYT is admirable. My mother in law was very put out when I kept hiding her copy while visiting her in Connecticut.
    Don't knock the New York Times.

    They gave us Wordle.
    They bought it. It was developed by a British software developer who sold out for $$$. Insert your own national decay metaphor here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordle
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    . . . yet another attack upon Truth, Justice and the British Way, by incorrigibly Anglo-phobic New York Times . . .

    NYT ($) - Do These Shoes Make Me Look Like a Tourist?
    A reader asks: to sneaker or not to sneaker?

    Q: I’ll be visiting Europe for the first time this summer and need advice for stylish walking shoes. I mainly wear dresses, but if I wear ballet flats while walking all day, my feet tend to swell up (not an issue with sneakers, but no way). Do you have any suggestions for a more closed shoe that wouldn’t out me as l’américaine? — Jennifer, Seattle


    A: By your shoes, they shall know you. I’m not entirely kidding. Shoes may not be the windows to the soul, but for a long time they were the source of national stereotype.

    Germans, it was said, were the travelers in sandals and white athletic socks. You could tell an Italian banker because he was the one in brown shoes, no matter what color his suit. The British, on the other hand, went around intoning “no brown in town.” American tourists wore sneakers.

    But that was then! Between the explosion of sneaker culture, the “fashionization” of Birkenstocks and the general rise of comfort clothing, those old lines have started to blur. If Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader, can wear sneakers to a meeting in the Oval Office, and Serena Williams can wear them to the Met Gala, Americans can wear them in Europe. So, for that matter, can Europeans. (So, for that matter, do Europeans.)

    Indeed, sneakers and Birks are by no means the giveaways they once were. They are pretty much an integral part of every wardrobe, not to mention every designer collection on Avenue Montaigne. So don’t be so quick to dismiss them.

    According to Dana Thomas, an author (and New York Times contributor) who has lived in Paris for more than two decades, the only footwear that really screams “tourist” these days is Crocs. . . .

    SSI - notice the not-so-subtle dig at "no brown in town" implying the British - or at least the English - are all racists!

    Your stout defence of the NYT is admirable. My mother in law was very put out when I kept hiding her copy while visiting her in Connecticut.
    Don't knock the New York Times.

    They gave us Wordle.
    They bought it. It was developed by a British software developer who sold out for $$$. Insert your own national decay metaphor here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordle
    In that case - screw 'em.
  • Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    OMG I'm sounding like a doom monger, not my usual optimistic self. Probably too much wine with dinner. Sorry.
    "I didn't get where I am today by being a doom monger!"
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    I’m not sure what the outcome of this action would be save that I don’t think it will have the effect they’re hoping for.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    I’m not sure what the outcome of this action would be save that I don’t think it will have the effect they’re hoping for.
    Banning parties that have not as a group committed criminal acts usually only makes them come back stronger.

    Perhaps they should ask themselves rather why it's doing so well in Germany, of all places.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,297

    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    The latest YouGov poll in Germany has them even higher:

    CDU/CSU - 27 %
    AfD - 23 %
    SPD - 17 %
    Greens - 14 %
    Linke - 6 %
    FDP - 5 %

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/yougov.htm
    I can't see this working out well - a party with 17% of the vote trying to abolish a rival party with 23% of the vote.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Just observing that - it may not be the exploits of Leon or the extremes of our Gulf contingent or even the froideur of our Scandinavian expats - but I’m sitting in the well deck of our little canal boat in a remote Warwickshire mooring, three pints of Old Rosie into the evening, and this country is fucking glorious sometimes.

    As you were.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    Just observing that - it may not be the exploits of Leon or the extremes of our Gulf contingent or even the froideur of our Scandinavian expats - but I’m sitting in the well deck of our little canal boat in a remote Warwickshire mooring, three pints of Old Rosie into the evening, and this country is fucking glorious sometimes.

    As you were.

    Not the "Comfortably Numb" by any chance?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    The extreme right are not your friends.

    I see your point about declining centrists panicking over the ascension of right wing nationalism , but I seem to remember Germany had some local difficulties with the far right once before.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Don't (was passes for) coffee shops in UK, have a jug of cream out for customers to put it into their own coffee?

    Standard in USA. Though of course ANY solution though up by Americans, MUST be unsuitable for Britons!

    ADDENDUM - every morning at my local coffee shop, I order a 16-ounce "drip coffee" which is available either dark or light; I ask them for the later but with a little of the former on top.

    Then I add my own cream.
    Cream should be poured over your pudding, not added to your coffee.

    And don't get me started on that "Half and half" abomination.
    The Canadians don't drink "half and half", they drink "double double" instead.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    On Topic When TSE says someones chopper is going to get him into trouble we should listen to him IMO

    Has great expertise in this area
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Or 'North Florida and the Orange Haired Twats?'
    Believe you'll find the Twat-in-Chief's lair at Mar-a-Lardo, is located in SOUTH Florida?

    Though future Orange-Hair, Matt Gaetz IS from North Florida, indeed he grew up (chronologically anyway) in house on Redneck Riviera featured in "The Truman Show".
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Scott_xP said:

    Just observing that - it may not be the exploits of Leon or the extremes of our Gulf contingent or even the froideur of our Scandinavian expats - but I’m sitting in the well deck of our little canal boat in a remote Warwickshire mooring, three pints of Old Rosie into the evening, and this country is fucking glorious sometimes.

    As you were.

    Not the "Comfortably Numb" by any chance?
    No but we passed that yesterday - think it was moored in Heyford and heading south!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    Scott_xP said:

    Just observing that - it may not be the exploits of Leon or the extremes of our Gulf contingent or even the froideur of our Scandinavian expats - but I’m sitting in the well deck of our little canal boat in a remote Warwickshire mooring, three pints of Old Rosie into the evening, and this country is fucking glorious sometimes.

    As you were.

    Not the "Comfortably Numb" by any chance?
    No but we passed that yesterday - think it was moored in Heyford and heading south!
    It was in a remote Warwickshire mooring this morning...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Or 'North Florida and the Orange Haired Twats?'
    Believe you'll find the Twat-in-Chief's lair at Mar-a-Lardo, is located in SOUTH Florida?

    Though future Orange-Hair, Matt Gaetz IS from North Florida, indeed he grew up (chronologically anyway) in house on Redneck Riviera featured in "The Truman Show".
    Actually, great fun could be had. West Virginia's 1st congressional district could be renamed South West West Virginia and it’s 2nd North East West Virginia.
  • Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Presumably 'and the Andouillettes' is somewhere in LA?
    Had to google that, as never heard that term down in the great Bayou State.

    "Andouille" (pronounced "ahn-do-ee" at least by non-Cajun French speakers) is what they talk about in Louisiana; according to some blurb on the web:

    What's the difference between andouille sausage and andouillettes?

    Andouille is a sausage made from the stomach and the ...
    In traditional French cooking the andouille was not smoked but poached. It would then be left to cool and then served in thin slices. Andouillettes is a smaller version of andouille, where the small intestine is used to make the casing instead of the large intestine.

    SSI - all the examples of andouille that I've ever sampled, in or outside of Louisiana, feature rice as part of the sausage stuffing.

    As for a LA legislative constituency, how's about "East Orleans and the Gris-Gris".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Or 'North Florida and the Orange Haired Twats?'
    Believe you'll find the Twat-in-Chief's lair at Mar-a-Lardo, is located in SOUTH Florida?

    Though future Orange-Hair, Matt Gaetz IS from North Florida, indeed he grew up (chronologically anyway) in house on Redneck Riviera featured in "The Truman Show".
    I never could get a handle on Florida.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    The latest YouGov poll in Germany has them even higher:

    CDU/CSU - 27 %
    AfD - 23 %
    SPD - 17 %
    Greens - 14 %
    Linke - 6 %
    FDP - 5 %

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/yougov.htm
    I can't see this working out well - a party with 17% of the vote trying to abolish a rival party with 23% of the vote.
    Yes it would have been like May's Tories trying to ban Corbyn Labour or New Labour trying to ban UKIP.

    You beat your opponents at the ballot box if you can, banning them just leads them onto the streets and in the worst case scenario to violence and terrorism

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    DougSeal said:

    Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    OMG I'm sounding like a doom monger, not my usual optimistic self. Probably too much wine with dinner. Sorry.
    You’ve been reading Leon’s posts. Reading him in lockdown seriously fucked with my head at points. Then there was the whole Threads thing. Now the AI apocalypse…
    The thing to understand is that the Trans Gay Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs are actually a great bunch. Life and soul of a good party. Embrace them as your friends, not fear them as the Apoco-cycle-clips or whatever.

    The nuclear weapons are just really funky door stops.

    Interesting fact. At Los Alamos, they had pure samples of all the elements for neutron cross section analysis. So the room where they stored the plutonium they had made to date - they mad a door stop out of gold. Because what was inside was worth several hundred million dollars. At that time…
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    ..

    Today's discussions even more depressing than Friday's :(

    Be positive

    It could be worse
    How can things be worse? Ukraine is losing the war, covered in mines and nearly flat. Millions of migrants are trying to escape the horrible places in the world to get to slightly less horrible places. The planet is on fire. The world has insufficient resources: fuel, water, food, space. We have a disastrous government that is sitting back while the country's infrastructure falls apart (the NHS, social care, housing, public transport, roads)

    Or am I reading the wrong news?
    OMG I'm sounding like a doom monger, not my usual optimistic self. Probably too much wine with dinner. Sorry.
    The world having insufficient water is a particularly ludicrous piece of chicken-littledom. It has exactly the same amount of water it's always had. Get a grip and stop being so suggestible.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    edited August 2023
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    After the success of their "Stop the Boats Week" during which record numbers of asylum seekers made it across the Channel, and sadly some didn't, inmates had to be taken off the controversial and extremely expensive Stockholm Bibby barge because they didn't bother to check for legionella, and when the Tory Party descended into infighting ... the government is now moving straight onto ... "NHS Week". I wonder what remarkable achievements they have in store for us, for NHS Week?

    40 new hospitals, to replace the 55 hospitals they accidentally burn down.
    Aren't most of those 40 new hospitals just rebranding exercises. The original plan was to repaint them as well but the paint was repurposed to repaint that immigration centre a few weeks ago..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    edited August 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Germany's governing SPD considers a ban on the far right AfD as it reaches 21% in the polls

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/

    The pro-Russia faction is what is driving the AfD vote. How do you feel about that?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    edited August 2023
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but just discovered the putative Berwick and Morpeth constituency has been renamed by the less pleasing, but more accurate, Northumberland North.
    Making me wonder how Hexham has avoided Northumberland West?
    Have there been any other last minute name changes I've missed?

    I wondered whether it might be a hangover from the old days of the districts, but since the district was called Tynedale (which would surely also be a logical name for the seat?) that seems unlikely.

    Maybe Hexham is just less of a mouthful and they couldn't be bothered to change it?

    (By the way, I think it will be 'North Northumberland' rather than 'Northumberland North,' as it's a county seat, which i have to say is a bit clumsy.)
    I am waiting for the Scottish Parliament seat of Clydebank and Milngavie to be re-named East Dunbartonshire West and West Dunbartonshire East.
    Sadly this kind of thing, is why in USA congressional and (almost all) state legislative districts are numbered instead of named.

    Sad because personally love "West Bromwich East" and the like!

    If YOU get to have (another example) "South Holland and the Deepings" then why can't WE have "East Carolina and the Drippings"?

    Or "East Arkansas and the Chitterlings"!
    Can you imagine the arguments come redistricting? You’d get lawsuits over which town/locality got priority in such amalgamated names. I’m surprised it doesn’t happen here. People in these parts hit the roof over a proposal to rename “Canterbury” to “Canterbury and Whitstable”. Proud people in Durovernum Cantiacorum.
    Once you accept these names though, the world's your oyster.
    Some will object, but they're just being shellfish.
This discussion has been closed.