When’s Rishi going to risk a general election? – politicalbetting.com

noneoftheabove said:

turbotubbs said:

Sandpit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

This is the new great white hope of Toryism?



https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1688822346277105664?s=20

I’ve said it before, but many voters don’t understand why we can’t simply put irregular arrivals on a bus to Dover, and back from whence they came on the first available ferry.

And right thinking people on pb may not agree, but an awful lot of people in the U.K. don’t believe someone arriving from France is coming from an unsafe country.*


*Not my view, France is an absolute hell hole…**

**And yes, I know there is no requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country.

So much wrong with this post and shows a lot of the reasons why a party that has talked about stopping asylum and reducing immigration for twenty years and been in power for most of them has absolutely failed to deliver.

There is no such thing as right thinking people.
(Almost) No-one thinks France is an unsafe country.
France takes more asylum seekers than the UK.

But mostly why this weird fixation on claiming asylum seekers have to claim asylum in the first safe country, when you know that is not the law, and the governing party against the asylum seekers have no plan to make it the law.

It wouldn't work anyway and just lead to spillover conflicts in distressed regions.

There are lots of ways to reduce asylum claims and/or immigration if we really want to. Moaning about the status quo is not a solution.

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

turbotubbs said:

noneoftheabove said:

turbotubbs said:

Sandpit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

This is the new great white hope of Toryism?



https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1688822346277105664?s=20

I’ve said it before, but many voters don’t understand why we can’t simply put irregular arrivals on a bus to Dover, and back from whence they came on the first available ferry.

And right thinking people on pb may not agree, but an awful lot of people in the U.K. don’t believe someone arriving from France is coming from an unsafe country.*


*Not my view, France is an absolute hell hole…**

**And yes, I know there is no requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country.

So much wrong with this post and shows a lot of the reasons why a party that has talked about stopping asylum and reducing immigration for twenty years and been in power for most of them has absolutely failed to deliver.

There is no such thing as right thinking people.
(Almost) No-one thinks France is an unsafe country.
France takes more asylum seekers than the UK.

But mostly why this weird fixation on claiming asylum seekers have to claim asylum in the first safe country, when you know that is not the law, and the governing party against the asylum seekers have no plan to make it the law.

It wouldn't work anyway and just lead to spillover conflicts in distressed regions.

There are lots of ways to reduce asylum claims and/or immigration if we really want to. Moaning about the status quo is not a solution.

You understand I hope that I was representing what an awful lot of people believe, not my own beliefs? People put themselves in the shoes of someone fleeing in terror and then deciding that France isn’t actually the right place to claim asylum and wonder why. That’s why people vote for parties that get tough (or claim to) on asylum as they don’t believe any of those crossing from France are genuine asylum seekers.

TheKitchenCabinet said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Sandpit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

This is the new great white hope of Toryism?



https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1688822346277105664?s=20

I’ve said it before, but many voters don’t understand why we can’t simply put irregular arrivals on a bus to Dover, and back from whence they came on the first available ferry.

And right thinking people on pb may not agree, but an awful lot of people in the U.K. don’t believe someone arriving from France is coming from an unsafe country.*


*Not my view, France is an absolute hell hole…**

**And yes, I know there is no requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country.

The paradox of the average bigot.

The UK is the best country in the world, the Frogs are revolting.

Also.

Where are all them asylum seekers flocking from? Why do they want to come here rather than stay in France?

I daresay they haven't lost a moment's sleep over it.

Not really a paradox and easily explainable.

You can understand the reasons why migrants would prefer the UK over France - language, lack of a national identity system making it easier to get lost in the system, extensive family networks (helps with the last point), free use of health facilities plus benefits such as housing provided by authorities who do not ask too many questions and are willing to accept your explanation.

However, that does not mean you think France is a hell hole. Sure, it is certainly a tougher country for migrants to live in because of the rules, restrictions etc but a lot of peoples' views are "if you are truly fleeing death and persecution, then surely a live in France is infinitely better?" The true answer, of course, is yes but many migrants are looking to come in for economic reasons.

It doesn't make you a bigot to think that way. But you are a bigot - in a different way - if you make no attempt to understand somebody's views and characterise them in simplistic terms.

RochdalePioneers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/sexually-assaulted-mp-labour-chris-bryant

The sad thing is that gay MPs still need to be in the closet. We've evolved significantly as a society over the last decade especially. Yet the fear of exposure from a society who is being whipped into a right wing frenzy to other anyone who doesn't conform to whatever the current Lee Anderson standard of behaviour is.

Leon said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

You're thinking Marstons (formerly Wolverhampton & Dudley). They sold it a few months ago so aren't directly implicated.

They might take some indirect flak on lack of due diligence into the buyer... but how much due diligence does anyone perform on someone buying their property? Are they offering to pay more than anyone else is offering? Tick. Have they transferred the funds to my account? Tick.

They are refusing to reveal who bought it, perhaps not illegal but looks damn shady

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

But he's p*ssing in the wind Leon. The wonkiest pub in Britain has gone forever. The owner will be fined and after the dust has settled will be allowed to build whatever he desires. It is an outrage, but no one is going to rebuild it as a facsimile of the original. The developer wins.

Pathetic defeatism

String the culprits up, by their goolies

At the very least we can make a horrifying example of these greedy fucks, so that others are less inclined to do the same shit

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Casino_Royale said:

RochdalePioneers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/sexually-assaulted-mp-labour-chris-bryant

The sad thing is that gay MPs still need to be in the closet. We've evolved significantly as a society over the last decade especially. Yet the fear of exposure from a society who is being whipped into a right wing frenzy to other anyone who doesn't conform to whatever the current Lee Anderson standard of behaviour is.

Except that's not what that article talks about. It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians.

Did you even read it?

Yes. "“One of them, who was not out, did so repeatedly. Another, who is still in the house and still does not accept that he is gay, pushed me against a wall and felt my crotch."

and

"“I remember when I came out in 2001, I was regularly touched up by older, senior, gay – they weren’t out – MPs. I never felt I was able to report it because you end up being part of the story, and that’s the last thing you want. And I think a lot of women have been through that.”"

It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians *who are in the closet*.

If they were out, would they be sneaking around grabbing Chris Bryant's arse as he has repeatedly suffered by closeted MPs?

We need to stamp out the over-sexed grabby atmosphere in the parliamentary estate which has seen scandal after scandal. But we already know that. The new nugget in the article is that so many of the gay gropers aren't openly gay. They're still the Little Britain MP giving a press conference with wife and kids surrounding them.

Loopy. Can I go about touching women's arses if society is depriving me of sex?

No. Next question.

Correct, because I am responsible for my own decisions, life choices and actions. And the difference is...

I don't know what point you are edging towards. I'm talking about the new angle in Bryant's book - that there are still a stack of MPs in the closet.

We already knew there was a groping problem. It needs to be stamped out. Lets assume that this will happen now that there is an awful lot of focus on it. So groping isn't my issue.

So what is?

You are trying to excuse or minimise sexual misconduct, on spartist grounds. Despite what you think, society is not in a very real sense the root cause of this conduct.

Taz said:

File under "What a shock"

The Australian company set to buy failed battery start-up Britishvolt has missed the deadline to pay for it.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britishvolt-factory-deal-in-doubt-after-buyer-recharge-misses-deadline-for-final-payment/ar-AA1eVeBE?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=baf314ff68ab4aa1861c78c17dc209ff&ei=8

This is not looking like it is going to happen at all.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Andy_JS said:

Gavin Williamson represents the area where the Crooked House was located. I wonder if he's said anything about it so far.

Yes. I have the press release here:

EMBARGOED UNTIL 1PM, 8 AUGUST 2023

There was a crooked man, and he walked a crooked mile,
He found a crooked sixpence against a crooked stile;
He bought a crooked cat which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all lived together in a little crooked house.
Which burned down. Probably a faulty fireplace or something.

ENDS

Notes for editors:

All enquiries to SIR Gavin Williamson MP c/o House of Commons.

Sandpit said:

Breaking: Man stabbed outside British Museum, another man in custody. Museum evacuated, and closed until further notice.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/08/british-museum-stabbing-london-latest-news/

Edit: Met statement:

“Police have arrested a man on suspicion of GBH following an incident at the junction of Russell Street and Museum Street around 10am on Tuesday 8 August.

“A man was treated for a stab wound to the arm at the scene and taken by London Ambulance Service to hospital.

“His condition is being assessed.

“This was an isolated incident and there is no outstanding risk to the public. It is not being treated as terror-related.

“The scene may be in place for much of today.

“Anyone with information or footage which could assist the police investigation is asked to contact police on 101, quoting CADF 2184/08AUG, or anonymously via Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.”

Leon said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

But he's p*ssing in the wind Leon. The wonkiest pub in Britain has gone forever. The owner will be fined and after the dust has settled will be allowed to build whatever he desires. It is an outrage, but no one is going to rebuild it as a facsimile of the original. The developer wins.

I suspect Street's intervention has nothing to do with saving a wonky pub, and everything to do with a desire to expand the West Midlands Combined Authority to encompass a pretty reliable Conservative county.

I also think it had everything to do with jumping on an obvious bandwagon, and harnessing a popular moment of outrage, to get himself on the front page of the Guardian

But there's nothing wrong with that. This is what big city mayors are for. Harnessing popular feeling. Good for him. If only the Tories had someone with that skill and instinct as a candidate in London

The pub wasn't even in his political parish. The actual MP for Dudley and the pub, who has remained pitifully inert and silent is....

Gavin Williamson

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Casino_Royale said:

RochdalePioneers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/sexually-assaulted-mp-labour-chris-bryant

The sad thing is that gay MPs still need to be in the closet. We've evolved significantly as a society over the last decade especially. Yet the fear of exposure from a society who is being whipped into a right wing frenzy to other anyone who doesn't conform to whatever the current Lee Anderson standard of behaviour is.

Except that's not what that article talks about. It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians.

Did you even read it?

Yes. "“One of them, who was not out, did so repeatedly. Another, who is still in the house and still does not accept that he is gay, pushed me against a wall and felt my crotch."

and

"“I remember when I came out in 2001, I was regularly touched up by older, senior, gay – they weren’t out – MPs. I never felt I was able to report it because you end up being part of the story, and that’s the last thing you want. And I think a lot of women have been through that.”"

It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians *who are in the closet*.

If they were out, would they be sneaking around grabbing Chris Bryant's arse as he has repeatedly suffered by closeted MPs?

We need to stamp out the over-sexed grabby atmosphere in the parliamentary estate which has seen scandal after scandal. But we already know that. The new nugget in the article is that so many of the gay gropers aren't openly gay. They're still the Little Britain MP giving a press conference with wife and kids surrounding them.

Loopy. Can I go about touching women's arses if society is depriving me of sex?

No. Next question.

Correct, because I am responsible for my own decisions, life choices and actions. And the difference is...

I don't know what point you are edging towards. I'm talking about the new angle in Bryant's book - that there are still a stack of MPs in the closet.

We already knew there was a groping problem. It needs to be stamped out. Lets assume that this will happen now that there is an awful lot of focus on it. So groping isn't my issue.

So what is?

You are trying to excuse or minimise sexual misconduct, on spartist grounds. Despite what you think, society is not in a very real sense the root cause of this conduct.

No, I'm really not. And have said repeatedly that groping by anyone is bad. My point wasn't about groping at all. Bryant is talking about his experiences being groped - which is bad and like all parliamentary groping needs to be stamped out.

I was querying why MPs are still in the closet in 2023. Whether those closeted MPs are gropers or not. Groping is bad. Being gay isn't bad - or shouldn't be seen to be. And yet...

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Leon said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

But he's p*ssing in the wind Leon. The wonkiest pub in Britain has gone forever. The owner will be fined and after the dust has settled will be allowed to build whatever he desires. It is an outrage, but no one is going to rebuild it as a facsimile of the original. The developer wins.

I suspect Street's intervention has nothing to do with saving a wonky pub, and everything to do with a desire to expand the West Midlands Combined Authority to encompass a pretty reliable Conservative county.

I also think it had everything to do with jumping on an obvious bandwagon, and harnessing a popular moment of outrage, to get himself on the front page of the Guardian

But there's nothing wrong with that. This is what big city mayors are for. Harnessing popular feeling. Good for him. If only the Tories had someone with that skill and instinct as a candidate in London

The pub wasn't even in his political parish. The actual MP for Dudley and the pub, who has remained pitifully inert and silent is....

Gavin Williamson

Yes and no.

I mean, I get the politics of intervening in an issue that isn't actually in his remit but closely borders his patch and which people in his patch are naturally concerned about. And I quite like Street - I think he's a reasonably effective metropolitan Mayor.

But it is a pretty inexpensive bit of politics for him, and one wonders what his approach would be if the pub was in fact in his patch. As it is, his authority doesn't miss out on the CIL/s106 levy from development on the site, and doesn't face the legal bill for planning appeals. He also gets to say "well, if you'd been in West Mids Combined Authority, things might have panned out differently". So it's a bit of a free swim.

Jim_Miller said:

FPT: This data on time of day, and day of week, car crashes in the US:
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/crashes-by-time-of-day-and-day-of-week/

If you can avoid US roads on Friday and Saturday nights, you will be safer, by a signficant margin.

(I apologize for possibly reviving a discussion that seemed to be going nowhere -- but I think that, in improving road safety, we have to look at the problem of impaired drivers, as well as speed limits.)

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Jim_Miller said:

FPT: This data on time of day, and day of week, car crashes in the US:
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/crashes-by-time-of-day-and-day-of-week/

If you can avoid US roads on Friday and Saturday nights, you will be safer, by a signficant margin.

(I apologize for possibly reviving a discussion that seemed to be going nowhere -- but I think that, in improving road safety, we have to look at the problem of impaired drivers, as well as speed limits.)

20 years back, visiting American colleagues marvelled at how drunk-driving had become socially unacceptable in Britain whereas in the US it was still considered perfectly normal to drive home and take your chance with the police. Of course, things may well have changed in the last two decades, although now there is also the huge increase in drug use.

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I’m hopping about the Crooked House Affair.
Pubs are one of the best things about this country.

They should be heavily subsidised, as France does to its bistros and the US does to its strip malls.

The “developer” should be forced to re-build it.
With his teeth.

It's also an example of where social media can be a positive thing. In the past, you'd have learned about this days or weeks after it happened, the outrage would be retrospective and weak, you'd then move on and forget it. On TwitterX and Facebook it is all immediate, visceral and in real-time, and the alleged culprits get intense pressure from the start. So things happen. I hope

Gardenwalker said:

I’m hopping about the Crooked House Affair.
Pubs are one of the best things about this country.

They should be heavily subsidised, as France does to its bistros and the US does to its strip malls.

The “developer” should be forced to re-build it.
With his teeth.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

Jim_Miller said:

FPT: This data on time of day, and day of week, car crashes in the US:
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/crashes-by-time-of-day-and-day-of-week/

If you can avoid US roads on Friday and Saturday nights, you will be safer, by a signficant margin.

(I apologize for possibly reviving a discussion that seemed to be going nowhere -- but I think that, in improving road safety, we have to look at the problem of impaired drivers, as well as speed limits.)

Gardenwalker said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

It wasn’t shut down.
Someone burned it down and then bulldozed it to destroy the evidence.

Gardenwalker said:

Did the Tory Party Chairman, supported by the Justice Secretary, really say he wished asylum seekers would fuck off?

What a churl, what an absolute boor.
Yet Casino comes on here, ranting about the “libs”.

The solution to pretty much any issue in Britain starts with terminating the current government with extreme prejudice.

Sandpit said:

Miklosvar said:

Anabobazina said:

Let’s make all residential areas 20mph.

And I say that as a driver of a high performance car.

Twenty is plenty in town.

Muy retro, don't think I have heard the expression high performance car since about the time the first golf GTI came out.

The Lotus Carton created quite a stir in the early ‘90s, but these days Tesla calls it’s top-of-the line cars “performance”, and they’re considerably faster than a 30-year-old saloon with a big engine.

Gardenwalker said:

Barty is setting up a false binary choice.

It’s thoroughly possible to build new housing without setting light to, and then hastily demolishing, an 18th century pub.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

You just get more and more ridiculous

Where were you when London Euston was demolished to make way for the current concrete jungle?

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

If you want a concerted effort to save pubs, halls etc, then start by drinking in them. Frequent those establishments and provide them custom.

If you can't be bothered, then don't complain if they go out of business. Put your money where your mouth is and go buy a pint or two. Regularly.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

If you want a concerted effort to save pubs, halls etc, then start by drinking in them. Frequent those establishments and provide them custom.

If you can't be bothered, then don't complain if they go out of business. Put your money where your mouth is and go buy a pint or two. Regularly.

Gardenwalker said:

Did the Tory Party Chairman, supported by the Justice Secretary, really say he wished asylum seekers would fuck off?

What a churl, what an absolute boor.
Yet Casino comes on here, ranting about the “libs”.

The solution to pretty much any issue in Britain starts with terminating the current government with extreme prejudice.

Gardenwalker said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

If you want a concerted effort to save pubs, halls etc, then start by drinking in them. Frequent those establishments and provide them custom.

If you can't be bothered, then don't complain if they go out of business. Put your money where your mouth is and go buy a pint or two. Regularly.

You’re ignoring Leon’s post upthread.

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Miklosvar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Casino_Royale said:

RochdalePioneers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/sexually-assaulted-mp-labour-chris-bryant

The sad thing is that gay MPs still need to be in the closet. We've evolved significantly as a society over the last decade especially. Yet the fear of exposure from a society who is being whipped into a right wing frenzy to other anyone who doesn't conform to whatever the current Lee Anderson standard of behaviour is.

Except that's not what that article talks about. It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians.

Did you even read it?

Yes. "“One of them, who was not out, did so repeatedly. Another, who is still in the house and still does not accept that he is gay, pushed me against a wall and felt my crotch."

and

"“I remember when I came out in 2001, I was regularly touched up by older, senior, gay – they weren’t out – MPs. I never felt I was able to report it because you end up being part of the story, and that’s the last thing you want. And I think a lot of women have been through that.”"

It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians *who are in the closet*.

If they were out, would they be sneaking around grabbing Chris Bryant's arse as he has repeatedly suffered by closeted MPs?

We need to stamp out the over-sexed grabby atmosphere in the parliamentary estate which has seen scandal after scandal. But we already know that. The new nugget in the article is that so many of the gay gropers aren't openly gay. They're still the Little Britain MP giving a press conference with wife and kids surrounding them.

Loopy. Can I go about touching women's arses if society is depriving me of sex?

No. Next question.

Correct, because I am responsible for my own decisions, life choices and actions. And the difference is...

I don't know what point you are edging towards. I'm talking about the new angle in Bryant's book - that there are still a stack of MPs in the closet.

We already knew there was a groping problem. It needs to be stamped out. Lets assume that this will happen now that there is an awful lot of focus on it. So groping isn't my issue.

So what is?

You are trying to excuse or minimise sexual misconduct, on spartist grounds. Despite what you think, society is not in a very real sense the root cause of this conduct.

No, I'm really not. And have said repeatedly that groping by anyone is bad. My point wasn't about groping at all. Bryant is talking about his experiences being groped - which is bad and like all parliamentary groping needs to be stamped out.

I was querying why MPs are still in the closet in 2023. Whether those closeted MPs are gropers or not. Groping is bad. Being gay isn't bad - or shouldn't be seen to be. And yet...

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

But he's p*ssing in the wind Leon. The wonkiest pub in Britain has gone forever. The owner will be fined and after the dust has settled will be allowed to build whatever he desires. It is an outrage, but no one is going to rebuild it as a facsimile of the original. The developer wins.

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick

Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

If you want a concerted effort to save pubs, halls etc, then start by drinking in them. Frequent those establishments and provide them custom.

If you can't be bothered, then don't complain if they go out of business. Put your money where your mouth is and go buy a pint or two. Regularly.

If they had better cycle provision I'd be more likely to buy a pint.

But seriously - I am a regular pub goer and claim to have singlehandedly kept my local pizzeria going during lockdown. I just wish the pints were as cheap as the cans you can buy in Tesco.

Sandpit said:

The Lotus Carton created quite a stir in the early ‘90s, but these days Tesla calls it’s top-of-the line cars “performance”, and they’re considerably faster than a 30-year-old saloon with a big engine.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

RochdalePioneers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/sexually-assaulted-mp-labour-chris-bryant

The sad thing is that gay MPs still need to be in the closet. We've evolved significantly as a society over the last decade especially. Yet the fear of exposure from a society who is being whipped into a right wing frenzy to other anyone who doesn't conform to whatever the current Lee Anderson standard of behaviour is.

Except that's not what that article talks about. It talks about sexual misconduct in parliament by other gay politicians.

Did you even read it?

That’s the Kevin Spacey and Philip Schofield argument, conflating openness about sexuality with sexual misbehavior.

It’s not really a surprise that there’s sexually deviant behaviour going on in Parliament.

Careful now. Spacey has been acquitted on every charge ever brought to court.

There is also no sexual misbehaviour been proved against Schofield. The Daily Mail simply sought to create outrage amongst its sexually vanilla readership over the fact that an older man might be attracted to a younger one and visa versa. They then made up a load of bollox to justify their prurience by saying that Schofield "took advantage of his power" when it is perfectly possible that the young man might possibly have made the first advance for all they knew. It was just pure homophobia.

AIUI Schofield's situation was very different, given that he got the man a job at the company, abusing and misusing his position.

Most companies would sack an employee for such behaviour, and rightly so IMO. Whilst not illegal, it was wrong.

Yes, no, maybe, depending what actually happened. Many large companies encourage employees to recruit their friends and family. For one thing, it is cheaper than paying agency fees and more reliable because a degree of informal pre-screening has gone on. It is when there is a perceived abuse of power that things get messy, and I'm not sure that has even been alleged in the Schofield case.

Leon said:

@Gardenwalker says, pubs are one of the best things about Britain, and anyone who goes around criminally tearing down 220 year old British pubs with amazing quirks will feel the wrath of many - and rightly

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Miklosvar said:

Leon said:

Andy Street is doing good clever politics on that pub that got torched and demolished

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/08/west-midlands-mayor-calls-for-crooked-house-pub-to-be-rebuilt-brick-by-brick


Tories need more like him. Instinctive politicians

I believe you can make such an order if and only if you can prove it was deliberately demolished. His letter rather pathetically skirts round the fact that he knows this perfectly well.

I think we can be fairly sure it was “deliberately demolished” as here is the footage of it being deliberately demolished by a great big JCB, a day after the fire.

https://twitter.com/dadgey/status/1688829090403381248?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

This all smacks of panic to me. Someone torched it and was frightened by the massive online reaction which got police and politicians involved, now they’ve kicked off an even bigger reaction

It won’t go away now

Ah OK the JCB may have been a mistake. if they have any sense they will have a surveyor's report after the fire saying JFC this buiding is lethally dangerous and needs demolished asap. BUT the point about the Punch Bowl is that it was listed, this is not. Not even sure they needed to torch it, unless they were getting in quick ahead of a fast track listing application (if such a thing is possible).

The Georgian Group was pursuing a quick listing with the support of locals

You’ve got this wrong. It’s definitely a highly suspicious sequence of events. Which also implicates Marathon’s the brewers

No, you have got me wrong. I think it absolutely stinks, but I think they will get away with it.

Mind you it was a fugly building and I don't feel that its loss hugely diminishes me. If people valued it they should have drunk a lot of beer there on a regular basis, and it would still be a pub.

One of the reasons it became less popular as a pub is that there was strangely sustained campaign of fly-tipping alll around it, making it hard to access and sometimes unpleasant to visit: I actually learned that from Gavin Williamson's Facebook page. And then in recent months it was suspiciously attacked so that its kitchen and loos were almost unusable....

It sounds to me like these last few days have merely been the culmination of a years long process of making it unviable as a pub, so it will be sold, so it can then be torched and demolished, and then someone makes an absolute mint turning it all into housing

And for once we as a nation should say No, fuck that, and put these greedy c*nts in jail, as an example. Sorted

This is what's wrong with this country. The building wasn't listed, if the owners wanted to demolish it, they ought to just be able to send in bulldozers and it should be none of anyone else's business.

We have a chronic shortage of housing in this country and any time anyone suggests building on greenfield land people scream out no, redevelop brownfield instead.

Now there's a plot of brownfield land available for redevelopment and there is outrage at that too.

Which is it? Do you want green land developed? Or "brownfield" which means tearing down old buildings, just like this.

And if you want a pub to stay open, best bet is to go and drink there. Not never go then complain an establishment you never drank at has shut down.

I'm sure your UK would have incredible GDP figures. But it would utterly charmless, and the welfare of the people who live here no better (or even worse).

There does need to be some sort of concerted effort to save pubs, halls. There is a value in social cohesion that doesn't appear on a spreadsheet. For one, it means that you can escape your poxy flat or new build for a few hours.

If you want a concerted effort to save pubs, halls etc, then start by drinking in them. Frequent those establishments and provide them custom.

If you can't be bothered, then don't complain if they go out of business. Put your money where your mouth is and go buy a pint or two. Regularly.

If they had better cycle provision I'd be more likely to buy a pint.

But seriously - I am a regular pub goer and claim to have singlehandedly kept my local pizzeria going during lockdown. I just wish the pints were as cheap as the cans you can buy in Tesco.

Likewise, I love pubs. I am a regular in at least two around me - the Edinboro Castle and the York and Albany - and often stroll to others in Primrose Hill

I visit plenty of pubs further afield. Soho, Hampstead, Highgate, all over London, and I love a country pub, a coastal pub, a historic pub. I even like really down at heel sketchy pubs, they too can have intense character. As @Gardenwalker says, pubs are one of the best things about Britain, and anyone who goes around criminally tearing down 220 year old British pubs with amazing quirks will feel the wrath of many - and rightly

One main reason I haven't drunk in the Crooked House is because I have never been to South Staffs (at least as far as I can recall) so have never had the chance. A stupid argument

Leon said:

...@BartholomewRoberts who wants to turn every inch of Britian into red brick semi detached Barratt homes...

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

@Gardenwalker says, pubs are one of the best things about Britain, and anyone who goes around criminally tearing down 220 year old British pubs with amazing quirks will feel the wrath of many - and rightly

I completely agree with this incidentally.

But then I'm not the one who regularly says to only build on brownfield land. Quite the opposite.

If you want to preserve old buildings and pubs especially, then that means new developments can't happen on that old land, so need to happen elsewhere instead.

There is no mythical bank of brownfield land ready for development that excludes old buildings or pubs.