Are the SNP too wee, too poor, too stupid to fight an election? – politicalbetting.com

Nigelb said:

Eight British Hurricane fighter planes dating back to World War Two have been found buried in a forest in Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1675481951548096514

Ukraine are going to rebuild one for an air museum.

The Russians would probably have put it back in service.

The reason they're there is interesting: under lend-lease, Russia had to pay for anything that was still intact at the end of the war. So at the end of the war, they destroyed and buried lots of kit.

They were untrustworthy, ungrateful barstewards even then.

JosiasJessop said:

Nigelb said:

Eight British Hurricane fighter planes dating back to World War Two have been found buried in a forest in Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1675481951548096514

Ukraine are going to rebuild one for an air museum.

The Russians would probably have put it back in service.

The reason they're there is interesting: under lend-lease, Russia had to pay for anything that was still intact at the end of the war. So at the end of the war, they destroyed and buried lots of kit.

They were untrustworthy, ungrateful barstewards even then.

A few years ago there were rumours of dozens of spitfires buried somewhere (out east I think). Did anything ever come of it?

Andy_JS said:

turbotubbs said:

Andy_JS said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Verstappen is beyond arrogant. 24s ahead, demands they pit him so he can go for fastest lap, team does so and then he's weaving around on the penultimate lap with LeClerc only a few seconds behind. And then of course sets the fastest lap on the final lap.

Max Verstappen might be an arrogant prick but he’s still more likeable than this Australian team.

Australia are the Red Bull of cricket. Undoubtedly talented, but make a point of being total w@nkers even when they win.

Maybe they haven't forgotten about Stuart Broad's refusal to walk when he edged to slip a few years ago.

Sorry, that’s bullshit. He didn’t refuse to walk. The Aussies appealed, the umpire said not out. That he had hit the ball is irrelevant. Most cricketers at test level don’t walk.

I think that incident was less sportsmanlike than what happened today with Bairstow.

Of course it wasn't. Awaiting the umpires decision is certainly not unsportsmanlike. Especially when the umpire gives you not out.

turbotubbs said:

state_go_away said:

turbotubbs said:

Andy_JS said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Verstappen is beyond arrogant. 24s ahead, demands they pit him so he can go for fastest lap, team does so and then he's weaving around on the penultimate lap with LeClerc only a few seconds behind. And then of course sets the fastest lap on the final lap.

Max Verstappen might be an arrogant prick but he’s still more likeable than this Australian team.

Australia are the Red Bull of cricket. Undoubtedly talented, but make a point of being total w@nkers even when they win.

Maybe they haven't forgotten about Stuart Broad's refusal to walk when he edged to slip a few years ago.

Sorry, that’s bullshit. He didn’t refuse to walk. The Aussies appealed, the umpire said not out. That he had hit the ball is irrelevant. Most cricketers at test level don’t walk.

its not BS - its called playing by the rules - you cannot pick and choose who is "cheating" or "unsportsmanlike" when Broad did that - fine but then dont whinge when you get it back (like today)

Can you show me the rule that says a batsman has to walk when they are caught? Nope, didn’t think so.

Now I play village cricket and always walk. But I wouldn’t if I was playing for England.

Its on the same page as the rule that says you can't run out dozey batsmen......

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

I didn't realise this fact:


"England captain Ben Stokes on Sunday created history by smashing most sixes in a Test innings on English soil. The 32-year-old achieved the feat by slamming nine sixes in England's second innings in the Lord's Ashes Test."

https://inshorts.com/en/news/ben-stokes-creates-history-smashes-most-sixes-in-a-test-innings-in-england-1688311473078

Some England career Test sixes

Cook 11
Stewart 10
Gower 10
Strauss 10
Boycott 8
Atherton 4

He’s ridiculously good. I also didn’t realise that he’s physically quite big. Broad shouldered. Intimidating

France: The rioting will continue until everyone has a new iPhone.

HYUFD said:

Clutch_Brompton said:

HYUFD said:

Cicero said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

Eh? Wycombe is not a marginal seat by any standards, despite a relatively large Muslim community (which historically splits fairly evenly between Tory and Labour), it is a rock solid seat. If you lose Wycombe you lose most of the Home Counties.

Eh? Wycombe is only 43rd on the Labour target list.

Sunak could still win most seats and lose Wycombe
https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

Wycombe is absolutely a marginal nowadays. Last time out Baker held on by about 8%. In any sort of a Lab victory it would almost certainly fall. So if there is a post-GE vacancy then Baker probably won't be around

Indeed. Wycombe also voted 52% Remain and the Conservatives are now in only third place with Remainers with Yougov on just 13% behind Labour on 57% and the LDs on 15%.

Even if the Conservatives still lead with Leavers but only with 41% compared to the 74% of Leavers Boris won in 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/w
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/06/29/voting-intention-con-24-lab-46-27-28-jun-2023
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

Under various boundaries, the Tories have held the seat since 1951. While I agree that Baker´s majority fell, that is because he is not very popular personally. Even with that, losing Wycombe would still be a disastrous result. The fact that HYFUD thinks that this is a) entirely to be expected and b) a good thing, suggests that the Conservative Party is already circling the drain.

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

Leon said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

I didn't realise this fact:


"England captain Ben Stokes on Sunday created history by smashing most sixes in a Test innings on English soil. The 32-year-old achieved the feat by slamming nine sixes in England's second innings in the Lord's Ashes Test."

https://inshorts.com/en/news/ben-stokes-creates-history-smashes-most-sixes-in-a-test-innings-in-england-1688311473078

Some England career Test sixes

Cook 11
Stewart 10
Gower 10
Strauss 10
Boycott 8
Atherton 4

He’s ridiculously good. I also didn’t realise that he’s physically quite big. Broad shouldered. Intimidating

His Dad was an international Rugby League prop, so no surprise there.
Big, rough unit, played for Workington. Then returned to coach them. Hence England.

Cicero said:

HYUFD said:

Clutch_Brompton said:

HYUFD said:

Cicero said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

Eh? Wycombe is not a marginal seat by any standards, despite a relatively large Muslim community (which historically splits fairly evenly between Tory and Labour), it is a rock solid seat. If you lose Wycombe you lose most of the Home Counties.

Eh? Wycombe is only 43rd on the Labour target list.

Sunak could still win most seats and lose Wycombe
https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

Wycombe is absolutely a marginal nowadays. Last time out Baker held on by about 8%. In any sort of a Lab victory it would almost certainly fall. So if there is a post-GE vacancy then Baker probably won't be around

Indeed. Wycombe also voted 52% Remain and the Conservatives are now in only third place with Remainers with Yougov on just 13% behind Labour on 57% and the LDs on 15%.

Even if the Conservatives still lead with Leavers but only with 41% compared to the 74% of Leavers Boris won in 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/w
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/06/29/voting-intention-con-24-lab-46-27-28-jun-2023
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

Under various boundaries, the Tories have held the seat since 1951. While I agree that Baker´s majority fell, that is because he is not very popular personally. Even with that, losing Wycombe would still be a disastrous result. The fact that HYFUD thinks that this is a) entirely to be expected and b) a good thing, suggests that the Conservative Party is already circling the drain.

He certainly is

turbotubbs said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

Is Ben stokes the greatest all round cricketer ever? I’d say yes. That was certainly the best innings of Test cricket I’ve ever personally witnessed. He’s phenomenal

Most devastating all round cricketer ever? Probably
Greatest? Not really

We have short memories. Sobers hit six sixes in a over in 1968 (not test, but first class).

Not first class. Was a one day game.

A marvellous story from the BBC illustrating the maxim "Social media make an ass of you and me":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66081242

A silly spat that originated with someone posting a picture of Tina Turner and her ex-husband. Someone else implying that meant they thought domestic violence was OK, and the first person concluding that the second person's comment reflected a contemptuous attitude to black and Asian people who didn't share her political views.

Both of them should have something better to do with their time.

turbotubbs said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

Is Ben stokes the greatest all round cricketer ever? I’d say yes. That was certainly the best innings of Test cricket I’ve ever personally witnessed. He’s phenomenal

Most devastating all round cricketer ever? Probably
Greatest? Not really

We have short memories. Sobers hit six sixes in a over in 1968 (not test, but first class).

Stokes just hit the most sixes in a test innings, in England, EVER

And it was the fourth innings!

It’s probably not right to measure him against other players. He is unique in multiple ways

He’s simply one of the greatest cricketers ever. C’est tout

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

Is Ben stokes the greatest all round cricketer ever? I’d say yes. That was certainly the best innings of Test cricket I’ve ever personally witnessed. He’s phenomenal

Most devastating all round cricketer ever? Probably
Greatest? Not really

We have short memories. Sobers hit six sixes in a over in 1968 (not test, but first class).

Stokes just hit the most sixes in a test innings, in England, EVER

And it was the fourth innings!

It’s probably not right to measure him against other players. He is unique in multiple ways

He’s simply one of the greatest cricketers ever. C’est tout

I agree with all of that. It’s never easy to compare players across eras. I think some of the great WIs players would have loved T20.

DavidL said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

I didn't realise this fact:


"England captain Ben Stokes on Sunday created history by smashing most sixes in a Test innings on English soil. The 32-year-old achieved the feat by slamming nine sixes in England's second innings in the Lord's Ashes Test."

https://inshorts.com/en/news/ben-stokes-creates-history-smashes-most-sixes-in-a-test-innings-in-england-1688311473078

Some England career Test sixes

Cook 11
Stewart 10
Gower 10
Strauss 10
Boycott 8
Atherton 4

He’s ridiculously good. I also didn’t realise that he’s physically quite big. Broad shouldered. Intimidating

A bit like rugby players. Seen on a pitch they look big, but not necessarily that big. Meet them with members of the public and they are huge.

I will never forget queuing for breakfast between Broad and Finn in Leeds. I felt like a somewhat inferior midget. These people are not only very skilled, they are astonishing athletes who work incredibly hard on their physiques. Its only when you are right beside them you really see it. Somehow, on the TV, when they are talking to each other you get the impression they are normal. They are not.

They are so fast now. Out in the field

There’s no comparison between, say, the cricketers of the 80s and the 2020s. The latter are vastly fitter and quicker

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

I am sure you could vote for Starmer as you did for Blair twice if Sunak loses the next election and a more rightwing Tory becomes leader

turbotubbs said:

noneoftheabove said:

turbotubbs said:

state_go_away said:

turbotubbs said:

Andy_JS said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Verstappen is beyond arrogant. 24s ahead, demands they pit him so he can go for fastest lap, team does so and then he's weaving around on the penultimate lap with LeClerc only a few seconds behind. And then of course sets the fastest lap on the final lap.

Max Verstappen might be an arrogant prick but he’s still more likeable than this Australian team.

Australia are the Red Bull of cricket. Undoubtedly talented, but make a point of being total w@nkers even when they win.

Maybe they haven't forgotten about Stuart Broad's refusal to walk when he edged to slip a few years ago.

Sorry, that’s bullshit. He didn’t refuse to walk. The Aussies appealed, the umpire said not out. That he had hit the ball is irrelevant. Most cricketers at test level don’t walk.

its not BS - its called playing by the rules - you cannot pick and choose who is "cheating" or "unsportsmanlike" when Broad did that - fine but then dont whinge when you get it back (like today)

Can you show me the rule that says a batsman has to walk when they are caught? Nope, didn’t think so.

Now I play village cricket and always walk. But I wouldn’t if I was playing for England.

Its on the same page as the rule that says you can't run out dozey batsmen......

Rubbish. There is no rule, or rather law, that says a batsman has to walk if they hit the ball and are caught. If the umpire upholds an appeal, they have to depart.

Exactly. And equally no law that says you can't run out a dozey batsman.

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

Cicero said:

HYUFD said:

Clutch_Brompton said:

HYUFD said:

Cicero said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

Eh? Wycombe is not a marginal seat by any standards, despite a relatively large Muslim community (which historically splits fairly evenly between Tory and Labour), it is a rock solid seat. If you lose Wycombe you lose most of the Home Counties.

Eh? Wycombe is only 43rd on the Labour target list.

Sunak could still win most seats and lose Wycombe
https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

Wycombe is absolutely a marginal nowadays. Last time out Baker held on by about 8%. In any sort of a Lab victory it would almost certainly fall. So if there is a post-GE vacancy then Baker probably won't be around

Indeed. Wycombe also voted 52% Remain and the Conservatives are now in only third place with Remainers with Yougov on just 13% behind Labour on 57% and the LDs on 15%.

Even if the Conservatives still lead with Leavers but only with 41% compared to the 74% of Leavers Boris won in 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/w
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/06/29/voting-intention-con-24-lab-46-27-28-jun-2023
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-election

Under various boundaries, the Tories have held the seat since 1951. While I agree that Baker´s majority fell, that is because he is not very popular personally. Even with that, losing Wycombe would still be a disastrous result. The fact that HYFUD thinks that this is a) entirely to be expected and b) a good thing, suggests that the Conservative Party is already circling the drain.

No, it is just changing demographics post Brexit.

For example in the May local elections the Tories held councils like Dartford and Harlow and Basildon and Braintree and Dudley and Wyre Forest that Blair won and areas like Torbay that the LDs won in 1997.

However the Tories no longer control lots of council areas containing parliamentary seats in the Home Counties they won in 1997. Wycombe being a Home Counties Remain seat typical of that.

The core Conservative vote now is skilled working class Leave voters and pensioners, whereas in 1997 it was the upper middle class. The latter are now swing voters post Brexit

Flatlander said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

DavidL said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

noneoftheabove said:

Leon said:

I didn't realise this fact:


"England captain Ben Stokes on Sunday created history by smashing most sixes in a Test innings on English soil. The 32-year-old achieved the feat by slamming nine sixes in England's second innings in the Lord's Ashes Test."

https://inshorts.com/en/news/ben-stokes-creates-history-smashes-most-sixes-in-a-test-innings-in-england-1688311473078

Some England career Test sixes

Cook 11
Stewart 10
Gower 10
Strauss 10
Boycott 8
Atherton 4

He’s ridiculously good. I also didn’t realise that he’s physically quite big. Broad shouldered. Intimidating

A bit like rugby players. Seen on a pitch they look big, but not necessarily that big. Meet them with members of the public and they are huge.

I will never forget queuing for breakfast between Broad and Finn in Leeds. I felt like a somewhat inferior midget. These people are not only very skilled, they are astonishing athletes who work incredibly hard on their physiques. Its only when you are right beside them you really see it. Somehow, on the TV, when they are talking to each other you get the impression they are normal. They are not.

They are so fast now. Out in the field

There’s no comparison between, say, the cricketers of the 80s and the 2020s. The latter are vastly fitter and quicker

Something to bear in mind when looking at scoring rates. No bowlers ever dived to save runs in the sixties when Boycott was batting…

I can remember Derek Randall being hailed as the best in the field when he threw himself around to stop a few runs.

Now we have whole teams of Derek Randalls.

I've been watching test cricket from the early 80s on YouTube and the only type of dive most fielders did was with their feet. They almost never did a head-first dive to stop the ball with their hands.

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

Nope they cheated. They tried it yesterday and didn't get away with it so they tried again today and unfortunately did. No surprise given two of their team have already served lengthy bans for cheating. Your 'whataboutism' is very sad.

I've laid Australia for the series at 1.2. England are the better team and I don't think we'll lose any of the remaining matches. 2/2 or 3/2 depending on the weather.

kinabalu said:

I've laid Australia for the series at 1.2. England are the better team and I don't think we'll lose any of the remaining matches. 2/2 or 3/2 depending on the weather.

We're the better team at what? Not cricket, that's for sure.

twistedfirestopper3 said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

Carnyx said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Kick Australia out of the Commonwealth.

Fucking disgrace we share a monarch with them.

Ban them from putting the Union Jack on their flag.

Utter rubbish, the King is as much King of Australia as King of the UK. Both are Commonwealth realms

Your treasonous words will not be forgotten.

More treason being rude about any of the realms of his Majesty

I don't think Chaz is going to arrest us.

"Offences constituting high treason include plotting the murder of the sovereign; committing adultery with the sovereign's consort, with the sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or with the wife of the heir to the throne; levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort; and attempting to undermine the lawfully established line of succession. Several other crimes have historically been categorised as high treason, including counterfeiting money and being a Catholic priest."

From Wiki. I'm not at all sure which one HYUFD thinks TSE has been up, or down, to.

"committing adultery with the sovereign's consort"

So that means that the king is guilty of high treason.

No, as Andrew Parker Bowles was never King.

But Chaz committed adultery, so one rule for us, but not for him?

Not just adultery, but adultery with Camilla who is indisputably "the sovereign's consort".

And the equally indisputable facts, that he was NOT (yet)sovereign AND she was NOT (yet) consort at will committing adultery, would appear to NOT alter the case, legally speaking?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

I would just say the grounded catch and the run out were simply unsporting and while the catch was correctly ruled out the run out may have been legal, but does nothing to enhance the Aussies reputation for fair play

and what about Englands reputation - do we excuse Broad those years ago? Its the tribalism I detest really - England are not superior morally to Australia or anyone - they all try to win (good!) -

Richard_Tyndall said:

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

Nope they cheated. They tried it yesterday and didn't get away with it so they tried again today and unfortunately did. No surprise given two of their team have already served lengthy bans for cheating. Your 'whataboutism' is very sad.

I don't think they did, and particularly as it was a fellow wicket-keeper I see no reason to even disapprove.

Also any bad blood that the crowd has managed to summon is entirely misplaced. I know it's commonplace now, and no long voyages are involved, but the Australian cricket team are our guests.

agingjb2 said:

"You don't walk in test matches." T.E.Bailey - Essex and England.

fair enough , not really arguing that but another rule is you try and get batsman out when fielding

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

Carnyx said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Kick Australia out of the Commonwealth.

Fucking disgrace we share a monarch with them.

Ban them from putting the Union Jack on their flag.

Utter rubbish, the King is as much King of Australia as King of the UK. Both are Commonwealth realms

Your treasonous words will not be forgotten.

More treason being rude about any of the realms of his Majesty

I don't think Chaz is going to arrest us.

"Offences constituting high treason include plotting the murder of the sovereign; committing adultery with the sovereign's consort, with the sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or with the wife of the heir to the throne; levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort; and attempting to undermine the lawfully established line of succession. Several other crimes have historically been categorised as high treason, including counterfeiting money and being a Catholic priest."

From Wiki. I'm not at all sure which one HYUFD thinks TSE has been up, or down, to.

"committing adultery with the sovereign's consort"

So that means that the king is guilty of high treason.

No, as Andrew Parker Bowles was never King.

But Chaz committed adultery, so one rule for us, but not for him?

Not just adultery, but adultery with Camilla who is indisputably "the sovereign's consort".

And the equally indisputable facts, that he was NOT (yet)sovereign AND she was NOT (yet) consort at will committing adultery, would appear to NOT alter the case, legally speaking?

Of course they do, the Queen was consort at the time and Philip was her consort and Charles' father

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

I don’t think this is about cheating, it’s about the spirit of cricket. You can make a good case that the spirit of cricket requires batters to walk if they know they hit a ball and we’re caught. Yet arguably that’s not where the modern game is. Many batsman will try to give the impression of innocence despite knowing that they have edged the ball. Broads was odd because it was a decent edge to slip, but for some reason the umpire missed it, thought it had just turned and said not out. No DRS back then.
This stumping is similar to the wierd run out a few years ago when the batter thought the ball had gone for four, the fielders gave that impression and then a run out was affected. In that game, yea intervened and the appeal was withdrawn.
Was Bairstow at fault? Yes, a little. He wasn’t seeking to gain an advantage, so I don’t know why the Aussies were ‘annoyed’. It was like excessive backing up. They took their chance and it paid off. I will try to stump batsman who bat out their ground to faster bowlers, but not at the end of an over when it’s pretty clear it’s over - the standing umpire wasn’t even looking.
So legal, yes. Just as the catch yesterday wasn’t a catch. Spirit of the game ? No, but it’s test cricket. Bring the rage to Headingly.

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

I am sure you could vote for Starmer as you did for Blair twice if Sunak loses the next election and a more rightwing Tory becomes leader

I most certainly will not vote for your RefUk light party, and for our country's sake I hope that common sense, decency, integrity and honesty are reestablished in time in the conservative party and you and the ERG are marginalised as per Corbyn in labour

The wets will entirely own the coming defeat.

I look forward to the next proper Tory government; when it happens it won't contain the likes of Rishi and Hunt, I suspect.

It is the nature of a flawed world that it will always contain the likes of them. The important thing is that they're nowhere near No. 10 or No. 11. And better still that the Treasury is removed as a force completely. It has been a thoroughly malign force on the British economy for decades - possibly centuries.

turbotubbs said:

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

I don’t think this is about cheating, it’s about the spirit of cricket. You can make a good case that the spirit of cricket requires batters to walk if they know they hit a ball and we’re caught. Yet arguably that’s not where the modern game is. Many batsman will try to give the impression of innocence despite knowing that they have edged the ball. Broads was odd because it was a decent edge to slip, but for some reason the umpire missed it, thought it had just turned and said not out. No DRS back then.
This stumping is similar to the wierd run out a few years ago when the batter thought the ball had gone for four, the fielders gave that impression and then a run out was affected. In that game, yea intervened and the appeal was withdrawn.
Was Bairstow at fault? Yes, a little. He wasn’t seeking to gain an advantage, so I don’t know why the Aussies were ‘annoyed’. It was like excessive backing up. They took their chance and it paid off. I will try to stump batsman who bat out their ground to faster bowlers, but not at the end of an over when it’s pretty clear it’s over - the standing umpire wasn’t even looking.
So legal, yes. Just as the catch yesterday wasn’t a catch. Spirit of the game ? No, but it’s test cricket. Bring the rage to Headingly.

I personally do not like the crowd being whipped up in cricket (leave it to football) , Golf is not the better for the hostile atmosphere of the Ryder Cup (in fact we pride ourselves that the atmosphere is more civilised when Europe host it) . Cricket is not better when you have loutish fans

Stuartinromford said:

Mexicanpete said:

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

I am sure you could vote for Starmer as you did for Blair twice if Sunak loses the next election and a more rightwing Tory becomes leader

I most certainly will not vote for your RefUk light party, and for our country's sake I hope that common sense, decency, integrity and honesty are reestablished in time in the conservative party and you and the ERG are marginalised as per Corbyn in labour

The wets will entirely own the coming defeat.

I look forward to the next proper Tory government; when it happens it won't contain the likes of Rishi and Hunt, I suspect.

How so?

The Conservatives are in the mess they find themselves in because of Truss and Kwarteng's absurd budget which was lauded by all the moon howlers as the first truly Conservative budget in living memory.

Sunak and Hunt have done a stunning job considering what Truss left them with.

For some, Sunak and Hunt are wets. That's objectively insane (Sunak is a straightforward Thatcherite- an updated miniaturised Peter Lilley, if you like) but believed. It's like that perception that Sunak, who believed in Brexit before it was cool, is somehow a remainer. It only makes sense because all the actual wets left years ago.

Similar to Marjorie Taylor Greene being toooo much of a lib-tard RHINO for the "Freedom Caucus"?

Leon said:

state_go_away said:

turbotubbs said:

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

I don’t think this is about cheating, it’s about the spirit of cricket. You can make a good case that the spirit of cricket requires batters to walk if they know they hit a ball and we’re caught. Yet arguably that’s not where the modern game is. Many batsman will try to give the impression of innocence despite knowing that they have edged the ball. Broads was odd because it was a decent edge to slip, but for some reason the umpire missed it, thought it had just turned and said not out. No DRS back then.
This stumping is similar to the wierd run out a few years ago when the batter thought the ball had gone for four, the fielders gave that impression and then a run out was affected. In that game, yea intervened and the appeal was withdrawn.
Was Bairstow at fault? Yes, a little. He wasn’t seeking to gain an advantage, so I don’t know why the Aussies were ‘annoyed’. It was like excessive backing up. They took their chance and it paid off. I will try to stump batsman who bat out their ground to faster bowlers, but not at the end of an over when it’s pretty clear it’s over - the standing umpire wasn’t even looking.
So legal, yes. Just as the catch yesterday wasn’t a catch. Spirit of the game ? No, but it’s test cricket. Bring the rage to Headingly.

I personally do not like the crowd being whipped up in cricket (leave it to football) , Golf is not the better for the hostile atmosphere of the Ryder Cup (in fact we pride ourselves that the atmosphere is more civilised when Europe host it) . Cricket is not better when you have loutish fans

Yeah it is. Speaking as a lout who had a blast today

We could have sat there all polite watching Australia win easily. Instead 98% of the crowd went bonkers and turned the whole stadium into a seething cauldron of hate directed at Australia. Which made for intense and fantastic cricket

Jeez. People moan that Test cricket is dying - perhaps facile attitudes like yours are part of the reason?

any civilised country or indeed person knows to be respectful and welcoming to guests - Football has let itself down for years by louts booing oppositions anthems , lets not drag cricket to that level (or indeed ourselves)

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

state_go_away said:

turbotubbs said:

state_go_away said:

Leon said:

Another point (I’ll shut up about the cricket in a minute)

Stokes will argue that the Bairstow dismissal possibly cost England the game. But the Bairstow dismissal turned the crowd from a good natured boozy audience. expecting defeat, into a visceral mob of constant booing and heckling

And this visibly destabilised Australia. You could see it in their body language. Their bowling got weaker and they dropped catches etc

So paradoxically the “Aussie cheating” helped England 🤷‍♂️

the Aussies of course did not cheat - unlike Broad a few years ago it could be argued. The aussies appealed for a legitimate wicket (thats why he was out) , Broad did not walk despite 100% knowing he was out (and tried to decieve the umpire by his mannerisms) - I would argue both are fair to do in the modern game but please have none of this pathetic "we woz robbed by cheats " rubbish

I don’t think this is about cheating, it’s about the spirit of cricket. You can make a good case that the spirit of cricket requires batters to walk if they know they hit a ball and we’re caught. Yet arguably that’s not where the modern game is. Many batsman will try to give the impression of innocence despite knowing that they have edged the ball. Broads was odd because it was a decent edge to slip, but for some reason the umpire missed it, thought it had just turned and said not out. No DRS back then.
This stumping is similar to the wierd run out a few years ago when the batter thought the ball had gone for four, the fielders gave that impression and then a run out was affected. In that game, yea intervened and the appeal was withdrawn.
Was Bairstow at fault? Yes, a little. He wasn’t seeking to gain an advantage, so I don’t know why the Aussies were ‘annoyed’. It was like excessive backing up. They took their chance and it paid off. I will try to stump batsman who bat out their ground to faster bowlers, but not at the end of an over when it’s pretty clear it’s over - the standing umpire wasn’t even looking.
So legal, yes. Just as the catch yesterday wasn’t a catch. Spirit of the game ? No, but it’s test cricket. Bring the rage to Headingly.

I personally do not like the crowd being whipped up in cricket (leave it to football) , Golf is not the better for the hostile atmosphere of the Ryder Cup (in fact we pride ourselves that the atmosphere is more civilised when Europe host it) . Cricket is not better when you have loutish fans

Yeah it is. Speaking as a lout who had a blast today

We could have sat there all polite watching Australia win easily. Instead 98% of the crowd went bonkers and turned the whole stadium into a seething cauldron of hate directed at Australia. Which made for intense and fantastic cricket

Jeez. People moan that Test cricket is dying - perhaps facile attitudes like yours are part of the reason?

any civilised country or indeed person knows to be respectful and welcoming to guests - Football has let itself down for years by louts booing oppositions anthems , lets not drag cricket to that level (or indeed ourselves)

It’s totally different to football. For a start the fans are all mingled, unlike the segregation at football. Also note it was booing, nothing more. If you want a crowd sleeping, gently applauding a run, then the Ashes probably isn’t for you.

Presumably Bairstow believed the ball to be dead when he left his ground? Did the wicket keeper think that Bairstow believed the ball to be dead?

agingjb2 said:

Presumably Bairstow believed the ball to be dead when he left his ground? Did the wicket keeper think that Bairstow believed the ball to be dead?

he had actually already threw it before Bairstow wandered

agingjb2 said:

Presumably Bairstow believed the ball to be dead when he left his ground? Did the wicket keeper think that Bairstow believed the ball to be dead?

I think he thought that yes, but he also saw a chance to affect a stumping, and succeeded.

kyf_100 said:

Chris said:

A marvellous story from the BBC illustrating the maxim "Social media make an ass of you and me":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66081242

A silly spat that originated with someone posting a picture of Tina Turner and her ex-husband. Someone else implying that meant they thought domestic violence was OK, and the first person concluding that the second person's comment reflected a contemptuous attitude to black and Asian people who didn't share her political views.

Both of them should have something better to do with their time.

Too many tweets make a

(your daily view count has been exceeded, please pay $8 to continue scrolling).

I knew Musk was mad, but I didn't think he was stupid. The average twitter user will scroll six hundred or whatever posts in half an hour (skipping over 95% of them). Never seen someone so intent on Ratnering their own brand.

I don't know if it's a weekend effect, but as the frequency of twitter posts have decreased, PB has become much more fun. Ok it's now full of cricket and F1 fans, but you can't have everything. 😀

Mexicanpete said:

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

I am sure you could vote for Starmer as you did for Blair twice if Sunak loses the next election and a more rightwing Tory becomes leader

I most certainly will not vote for your RefUk light party, and for our country's sake I hope that common sense, decency, integrity and honesty are reestablished in time in the conservative party and you and the ERG are marginalised as per Corbyn in labour

The wets will entirely own the coming defeat.

I look forward to the next proper Tory government; when it happens it won't contain the likes of Rishi and Hunt, I suspect.

How so?

The Conservatives are in the mess they find themselves in because of Truss and Kwarteng's absurd budget which was lauded by all the moon howlers as the first truly Conservative budget in living memory.

Sunak and Hunt have done a stunning job considering what Truss left them with.

I wouldn't say stunning, but in view of the toxic legacy of Johnson and Truss they have at least made a start but those who mourn the passing of the last two PMs are in denial and if they prevail are looking at decades in the wilderness

Mexicanpete said:

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Stuartinromford said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

I first heard this said by a Labour member in the 1990s, but I'm sure the gag is older than that;

We can't chuck all the nutters out, there would be nobody left.

As I said early this morning the conservative party are in a grave position as they tear themselves apart and the country looks on in anger

The way to win elections is in the centre ground which Starmer and Reeves have claimed , while Johnson and his disciples lack of self awareness is unbelievable and frankly they are hiding in the conservative party and destroying from within like a Trojan horse when their true allegiance is with RefUK and Farage

Post GE24 if the right have their way and the disgraceful Braverman is anywhere near power, than I am political homeless as are many millions of other one nation conservatives

I am sure you could vote for Starmer as you did for Blair twice if Sunak loses the next election and a more rightwing Tory becomes leader

I most certainly will not vote for your RefUk light party, and for our country's sake I hope that common sense, decency, integrity and honesty are reestablished in time in the conservative party and you and the ERG are marginalised as per Corbyn in labour

The wets will entirely own the coming defeat.

I look forward to the next proper Tory government; when it happens it won't contain the likes of Rishi and Hunt, I suspect.

How so?

The Conservatives are in the mess they find themselves in because of Truss and Kwarteng's absurd budget which was lauded by all the moon howlers as the first truly Conservative budget in living memory.

Sunak and Hunt have done a stunning job considering what Truss left them with.

Piss off. The mini budget was masterful compared to the economic vandalism meted out by Sunak/Hunt since. The more grounded Sunak fans now acknowledge as much, and (rightly) bemoan Kwarteng/Truss's presentation of the budget not its content.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

..

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

More than one of your posts of late have celebrated what you believe will be the end of various Tory MPs' careers. Perhaps you should take some of the shame you seem so keen to dish out.

Sadly because of Johnson and your beloved Truss conservative mps across the land are facing a career ending election

The conservative party will only obtain office by moving to the centre ground (one nation conservatives) and marginalising those who have brought it into shame and disrepute

The 'centre ground', aka statist socialism, ends in IMF bailouts or bankruptcy, it ends in a big state apparatus and high taxes. It is the sort of thing bureaucracy loves, because it is self perpetuating.

We need to encourage self reliance, low taxation, and a small state.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

..

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

More than one of your posts of late have celebrated what you believe will be the end of various Tory MPs' careers. Perhaps you should take some of the shame you seem so keen to dish out.

Sadly because of Johnson and your beloved Truss conservative mps across the land are facing a career ending election

The conservative party will only obtain office by moving to the centre ground (one nation conservatives) and marginalising those who have brought it into shame and disrepute

That only works if Labour moves far to the left in Government. Otherwise, you have two centrist parties competing, and then what's the point of voting, but also the electorate who do bother will probably stick with the devil they know, (unless they screw up disastrously, in which case it won't matter what the opposition says).

viewcode said:

kyf_100 said:

Chris said:

A marvellous story from the BBC illustrating the maxim "Social media make an ass of you and me":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66081242

A silly spat that originated with someone posting a picture of Tina Turner and her ex-husband. Someone else implying that meant they thought domestic violence was OK, and the first person concluding that the second person's comment reflected a contemptuous attitude to black and Asian people who didn't share her political views.

Both of them should have something better to do with their time.

Too many tweets make a

(your daily view count has been exceeded, please pay $8 to continue scrolling).

I knew Musk was mad, but I didn't think he was stupid. The average twitter user will scroll six hundred or whatever posts in half an hour (skipping over 95% of them). Never seen someone so intent on Ratnering their own brand.

I don't know if it's a weekend effect, but as the frequency of twitter posts have decreased, PB has become much more fun. Ok it's now full of cricket and F1 fans, but you can't have everything. 😀

Have we all read Cory Doctorow's thesis on "enshittification", the process that all social media goes through as a result of platforms extracting value to the point of killing the golden goose?

https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

When you think about it, PB has outlived most social media platforms - here before Facebook which is a dead platform now, Instagram dying, Twitter taking a very rapid turn for the worse...

The interesting thing about the Doctorow idea is that you'd imagine social media platforms would learn from the mistakes of their predecessors, but it keeps happening because of the way the capitalist system itself demands the extraction of value. On reading it, I couldn't help but wonder if the UK was being "enshittified" in the same way.

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

..

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

More than one of your posts of late have celebrated what you believe will be the end of various Tory MPs' careers. Perhaps you should take some of the shame you seem so keen to dish out.

Sadly because of Johnson and your beloved Truss conservative mps across the land are facing a career ending election

The conservative party will only obtain office by moving to the centre ground (one nation conservatives) and marginalising those who have brought it into shame and disrepute

The 'centre ground', aka statist socialism, ends in IMF bailouts or bankruptcy, it ends in a big state apparatus and high taxes. It is the sort of thing bureaucracy loves, because it is self perpetuating.

We need to encourage self reliance, low taxation, and a small state.

Self reliance, low taxation and a small state - which of those has this incompetent set of Tory Governments delivered over the past 13 years?

Hint none of them...

kyf_100 said:

viewcode said:

kyf_100 said:

Chris said:

A marvellous story from the BBC illustrating the maxim "Social media make an ass of you and me":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66081242

A silly spat that originated with someone posting a picture of Tina Turner and her ex-husband. Someone else implying that meant they thought domestic violence was OK, and the first person concluding that the second person's comment reflected a contemptuous attitude to black and Asian people who didn't share her political views.

Both of them should have something better to do with their time.

Too many tweets make a

(your daily view count has been exceeded, please pay $8 to continue scrolling).

I knew Musk was mad, but I didn't think he was stupid. The average twitter user will scroll six hundred or whatever posts in half an hour (skipping over 95% of them). Never seen someone so intent on Ratnering their own brand.

I don't know if it's a weekend effect, but as the frequency of twitter posts have decreased, PB has become much more fun. Ok it's now full of cricket and F1 fans, but you can't have everything. 😀

Have we all read Cory Doctorow's thesis on "enshittification", the process that all social media goes through as a result of platforms extracting value to the point of killing the golden goose?

https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

When you think about it, PB has outlived most social media platforms - here before Facebook which is a dead platform now, Instagram dying, Twitter taking a very rapid turn for the worse...

The interesting thing about the Doctorow idea is that you'd imagine social media platforms would learn from the mistakes of their predecessors, but it keeps happening because of the way the capitalist system itself demands the extraction of value. On reading it, I couldn't help but wonder if the UK was being "enshittified" in the same way.

The same thing happened to the lad magazines

Suits took over and demanded maximum profit for minimum effort which made the product worse and worse - and then they fell off a cliff coz they couldn’t compete with free shit on the internet. There was nothing worth paying for

Mortimer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

..

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well.

Suella Braverman’s rhetoric about child sexual abuse and grooming gangs has cost her the support of an influential Conservative backer, Steve Baker, in a sign her hardline approach to culture war issues could hamper her chances of becoming Tory leader.

Baker, a Tory MP on the Brexiter right of the party, who is now a Northern Ireland minister, was Braverman’s de facto campaign manager when she stood to succeed Boris Johnson as Conservative leader and prime minister last summer.

While Braverman, now the home secretary, was eliminated in the second round of MPs’ voting, her candidacy was seen as a marker for a possible future contest, one likely if the Conservatives lose the next general election.

However, it is understood Baker has decided he would not back Braverman again because of serious concerns over the way she has approached the issue of so-called grooming gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/02/steve-baker-withdraws-support-for-suella-braverman-over-grooming-gangs-rhetoric-says-ally

As Baker will almost certainly lose his marginal Wycombe seat to Labour at the general election I doubt Suella cares.

By the time she likely runs for Tory Leader of the Opposition, Baker will be a very ex MP and not even able to vote in the MP rounds

And that sums up you and the whole sorry story of the right and Johnson as your hero

You are actually celebrating the career end of a conservative mp

Shame on you, and go and join RefUK as that is where you and the ERG truly belong

More than one of your posts of late have celebrated what you believe will be the end of various Tory MPs' careers. Perhaps you should take some of the shame you seem so keen to dish out.

Sadly because of Johnson and your beloved Truss conservative mps across the land are facing a career ending election

The conservative party will only obtain office by moving to the centre ground (one nation conservatives) and marginalising those who have brought it into shame and disrepute

The 'centre ground', aka statist socialism, ends in IMF bailouts or bankruptcy, it ends in a big state apparatus and high taxes. It is the sort of thing bureaucracy loves, because it is self perpetuating.

We need to encourage self reliance, low taxation, and a small state.

Re your last sentence there is no disagreement but due to covid, the war in Ukraine and in part Brexit state intervention was essential and it will take time to recover the country's finances and move to lower taxation

Any misstep now by ether Sunak or Starmer when he is in power will turn the interest rate hikes on at devastating effect