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Are the SNP too wee, too poor, too stupid to fight an election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,750

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Norway is already outside the EU.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Leon said:

    Looks like the French Riots are deinitely not "over"

    Lyon burns as we speak

    Well the 2005 ones went for 3 weeks. I presume they only stopped because the rioters were due vacation time, as per French union rules.
    "You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    Curious how many folk feel able to Unionsplain on behalf of bits where - so far as I know - they have no vote or citizenship, actual or potential.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    Curious how many folk feel able to Unionsplain on behalf of bits where - so far as I know - they have no vote or citizenship, actual or potential.

    What drivel is this? We are all citizens of the UK, where we all have a vote - and therefore a role and a say. Long may it remain so, and - with the corrupt SNP totally imploding - there is no present threat to this state of affairs, praise the Lord

    This is, by the by, why you ain't getting a 2nd referendum. Because the entire UK decides what is best for the UK, not you stupid smelly Nats
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:00 Yaphet Kotto and Veronica Cartwright are collecting oxygen bottles. It's not going well. Behind her is a bright light. A shadow passes across it. Veronica glances up and freezes. The creature rises to its full height...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:02. "Danger. The Emergency destruct system has been activated..."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    viewcode said:

    11:02. "Danger. The Emergency destruct system has been activated..."

    11:05 Twenty-two. Twenty-one. Twenty...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:02. "Danger. The Emergency destruct system has been activated..."

    11:05 Twenty-two. Twenty-one. Twenty...
    11:06 "Mother! Turn the coolant unit back on..."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:08 "You have one minute to abandon ship"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:09 "Nine. Eight. Seven. Six..."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the French Riots are deinitely not "over"

    Lyon burns as we speak

    Well the 2005 ones went for 3 weeks. I presume they only stopped because the rioters were due vacation time, as per French union rules.
    We should riot more
    Did Putin pay you to say that?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:12: Sigourney goes along the consoles, setting the shuttle up for the trip back to Earth. Behind the console is a mess of wires and pipes, including an elongated dome. She presses more buttons and the hidden alien extends its arm. She hasn't escaped. She retreats into a closet and dons a spacesuit...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    dixiedean said:

    Today is the midpoint day.
    Day 183 of 365.
    We are closer to 2024 now as to 2022.

    And Rishi still hasn't halved inflation yet! 👿
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It was very well timed. If the keeper had held onto it even for a second or two, or Bairstow a little slower in setting off, it would not have worked, yet the throw came at the precise moment needed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

    11:19: "This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off...". The music rolls, as do the credits. The end
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    .
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It was very well timed. If the keeper had held onto it even for a second or two, or Bairstow a little slower in setting off, it would not have worked, yet the throw came at the precise moment needed.
    It was perhaps the most perfect thing I've seen on a cricket pitch.
    🇳🇿
    Perfectly abysmal.
    The cheapest of cheap shots.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

    11:19: "This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off...". The music rolls, as does the credits. The end
    Got rather tends there at the end.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    More and more football fans are starting to patrol the streets in France amid the escalating riots and looting

    This video shows young supporters of Lyon out on the streets in the city tonight.

    Vigilantism is on the rise in France.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1675613946751991808?s=20
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Odd.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Yeah but I saw Ben Stokes hit arguably the greatest Test innings ever seen in England. In an ashes match. On the last day at Lord’s (which is, I’ve realised, my nearest cricket pitch)

    A mere loss to some Aussie gamesmanship is nothing compared to that. It is genuinely something I will cherish to my dying moment

    Like seeing Led Zep play live in the Marquee in 1971. Like seeing a young Olivier play Hamlet at the Old Vic. Like watching Zhukov giving orders in the black ruins of Stalingrad

    I WAS THERE
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

    11:19: "This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off...". The music rolls, as does the credits. The end
    Got rather tends there at the end.
    The music is odd. It's not a big rousing score like John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith, more a small spooky score, something that wouldn't be out of place in Planet Of The Apes or an episode of UFO. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's very period specific. But apart from that it's damn nearly timeless. The early computer graphics - if you can even call them that - famously get reused in Blade Runner. It invented all the clichés: sirens, alarms, Big Gothic Spaceship, "ten seconds to self-destruct", corridors with walls made out of perforated plastic, lighting from behind the walls, pull-away panels enabling immersive sets, gusts of carbon dioxide(?) to add atmosphere. There's only seven people in the cast. The set design is brilliant, and every time the effects are a bit dodgy, just pump more smoke into the studio. Three years later he did Blade Runner. Damn.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Yeah but I saw Ben Stokes hit arguably the greatest Test innings ever seen in England. In an ashes match. On the last day at Lord’s (which is, I’ve realised, my nearest cricket pitch)

    A mere loss to some Aussie gamesmanship is nothing compared to that. It is genuinely something I will cherish to my dying moment

    Like seeing Led Zep play live in the Marquee in 1971. Like seeing a young Olivier play Hamlet at the Old Vic. Like watching Zhukov giving orders in the black ruins of Stalingrad

    I WAS THERE
    Yea, yea, yea. Bit I was there for this:

    https://www.lords.org/lords/our-history/honours-boards/a-flintoff/142

    Actually, of course, that wasn't comparable with Stokes because it was nowhere near resulting in a win, but was still awesome to behold - in the crowd quite frightening in the way he was hitting some of those balls.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

    11:19: "This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off...". The music rolls, as does the credits. The end
    Got rather tends there at the end.
    The music is odd. It's not a big rousing score like John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith, more a small spooky score, something that wouldn't be out of place in Planet Of The Apes or an episode of UFO. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's very period specific. But apart from that it's damn nearly timeless. The early computer graphics - if you can even call them that - famously get reused in Blade Runner. It invented all the clichés: sirens, alarms, Big Gothic Spaceship, "ten seconds to self-destruct", corridors with walls made out of perforated plastic, lighting from behind the walls, pull-away panels enabling immersive sets, gusts of carbon dioxide(?) to add atmosphere. There's only seven people in the cast. The set design is brilliant, and every time the effects are a bit dodgy, just pump more smoke into the studio. Three years later he did Blade Runner. Damn.
    Yes. Ridley Scott has a claim to be the greatest movie director ever. Fuck all that orson Welles or Tarkovsky or Fellini shite

    Scott has made three or four of the greatest movies of all time
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Odd.
    How so? I don't have to stay loyal to a team. In 2005 I liked Flintoff and Pietersen. I also liked Warne and Lee. I didn't like Vaughan or Ponting. On balance I found England much more pleasing that time around. But this time around I like Australia much better.
    If England play Hungary in the football I'll support England. If they play Italy, I'll support Italy.
    England's just another country which I like and dislike depending on who's on the field. It's how most people feel about most countries other than their own, I think.
    Hmm. Okay. You have a strange way about sporting loyalties - i.e. yours are entirely ad hoc. I'm not going to condemn it if that is your bag, but 'unusual' is not the word.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023

    agingjb2 said:

    agingjb2 said:

    Presumably Bairstow believed the ball to be dead when he left his ground? Did the wicket keeper think that Bairstow believed the ball to be dead?

    The replay I saw seemed to show Carey throwing it almost immediately after he caught it, didn’t seem much think about it.
    So "finally settling in the wicket keeper's hands" had not happened. There is no doubt that Bairstow was correctly given out.

    Spirit of cricket? Barely present in an Ashes test, but purists might question whether or what the (rather inattentive) Bairstow was trying to accomplish by moving down the pitch - certainly not stealing a run.

    It was out under the letter of the law. But surely the stumping rule was introduced so that the batsmen can't get the advantage of going down the pitch to a delivery without incurring some risk; it wasn't intended to allow a sneaky a dismissal when the batman wrongly thought the over had been called.
    How do you think Carey should have been able to stump Bairstow, given that he wasn't able to stand up owing to the fact that Green was bowling short pitched deliveries making it unwise to do so? What you say is the same thing as saying that Carey shouldn't have been able to stump Bairstow under any circumstances just because he was standing back.

    Anyone who says what Carey did was wrong is implicitly calling for a new rule of cricket stating that "A batsman cannot be stumped by the wicket keeper if the latter is standing back from the stumps".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Yeah but I saw Ben Stokes hit arguably the greatest Test innings ever seen in England. In an ashes match. On the last day at Lord’s (which is, I’ve realised, my nearest cricket pitch)

    A mere loss to some Aussie gamesmanship is nothing compared to that. It is genuinely something I will cherish to my dying moment

    Like seeing Led Zep play live in the Marquee in 1971. Like seeing a young Olivier play Hamlet at the Old Vic. Like watching Zhukov giving orders in the black ruins of Stalingrad

    I WAS THERE
    Yea, yea, yea. Bit I was there for this:

    https://www.lords.org/lords/our-history/honours-boards/a-flintoff/142

    Actually, of course, that wasn't comparable with Stokes because it was nowhere near resulting in a win, but was still awesome to behold - in the crowd quite frightening in the way he was hitting some of those balls.
    Flintoff at his best was genius

    A notch below Stokes, I’d say, coz Stokes is also an incredible captain

    But close
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Yeah but I saw Ben Stokes hit arguably the greatest Test innings ever seen in England. In an ashes match. On the last day at Lord’s (which is, I’ve realised, my nearest cricket pitch)

    A mere loss to some Aussie gamesmanship is nothing compared to that. It is genuinely something I will cherish to my dying moment

    Like seeing Led Zep play live in the Marquee in 1971. Like seeing a young Olivier play Hamlet at the Old Vic. Like watching Zhukov giving orders in the black ruins of Stalingrad

    I WAS THERE
    Indeed, great innings by Stokes.

    Day marred though by oiks in the Long Room booing and being rude to the Australian players, correctly the MCC has suspended them. How on earth they got in in the first place is beyond me, the MCC Pavilion and Long Room is supposed to be exclusive for those who know how to behave ie posh by manners not just with money. Much like the Royal Box at Wimbledon or the Royal Enclosure at Ascot
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,915
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    "Proper media is for more sensible reporting of something that did happen."

    But they don't do that either. They are just pitifully slow, and when they do report, it is with lazy bias and a lack of nous

    Exactly, they sit in this awkward middle ground of being neither quick enough to tell you what is happening now, or slow enough to dispense with immediacy and take a considered view after the fact.

    It's really a very difficult problem for news channels and news shows. Probably they should spend less on news, and more on documentaries.

    I honestly think news reporting was a lot better when there was less of it, and the main news show was late in the day, and often bookended with current affairs documentaries.
    Yes, I entirely agree

    Their job in reporting "news" in the moment is over. Social media does it so much faster. albeit with flaws. But nothing can match its instant speed

    Legacy news needs to move to slower and considered analysis, or indeed political polemics (which should be allowed on all sides in a healthy polity)
    I think you're underplaying the "flaws". Last week I heard the Putin was in St Petersburg, Putin was fleeing east, Putin was in a bunker, Putin had been detained, Putin was dead.
    I heard Lukashenko was in Turkey, in Moscow, was also dead, was now taking over a new Russia-Belorussian union.
    I heard it was a coup, a revolution, a trap, a feint, an insurrection, a fiction, a CIA plot. I heard Wagner were already in Moscow and that they hadn't even left Rostov. I heard the Wagner column was bombed, was attacked by civilians, was cheered by civilians, and, again for emphasis, didn't exist.

    That's not "flaws". That's epistemological anarchy.
    That's what Bayes Theorem is for.

    For example, the only person saying Lukashenko was poised to lead a new Russia-Belorussian union was the one poster we have on here with a weird obsession about Lukashenko. So it's quite easy to assign a very low probability to that possibility. You can do the same to all the other possible events on your list on the basis of the reliability of the source for the information, whether it was from more than one source, came with any video or photographic evidence, etc.

    Now all that takes a bit more effort than blindly ingesting the assessment of a BBC correspondent, so you're only going to do it for something you're particularly interested in. and You will make mistakes, same as the BBC correspondent will.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Andy_JS said:

    agingjb2 said:

    agingjb2 said:

    Presumably Bairstow believed the ball to be dead when he left his ground? Did the wicket keeper think that Bairstow believed the ball to be dead?

    The replay I saw seemed to show Carey throwing it almost immediately after he caught it, didn’t seem much think about it.
    So "finally settling in the wicket keeper's hands" had not happened. There is no doubt that Bairstow was correctly given out.

    Spirit of cricket? Barely present in an Ashes test, but purists might question whether or what the (rather inattentive) Bairstow was trying to accomplish by moving down the pitch - certainly not stealing a run.

    It was out under the letter of the law. But surely the stumping rule was introduced so that the batsmen can't get the advantage of going down the pitch to a delivery without incurring some risk; it wasn't intended to allow a sneaky a dismissal when the batman wrongly thought the over had been called.
    How do you think Carey should have been able to stump Bairstow, given that he wasn't able to stand up owing to the fact that Green was bowling short pitched deliveries making it unwise to do so? What you say is the same thing as saying that Carey shouldn't have been able to stump Bairstow under any circumstances just because he was standing back.

    Anyone who says what Carey did was wrong is implicitly calling for a new rule of cricket stating that "A batsman cannot be stumped by the wicket keeper if the latter is standing back from the stumps".
    Er no. The stumping rule was surely introduced for the following reason: it's massively advantageous to the batsman if he can stride down the pitch and hit the ball on the full-toss or before it has the chance to spin etc. Therefore, to counter a batsman doing this with impunity, the stumping rule was introduced: if he does leave his crease, then he has to be able to hit the ball; if he misses it (and therefore demonstrates insufficient skill) then the whole stumping thing can kick in. None of that applied to the Bairstow business.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023
    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    This is a first on PB. I agree with Farooq. (Maybe the fact I used to be a wicket keeper myself has something to do with it).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It worked because they knew he went walkabout AT THE END OF THE OVER.

    Hence the reason it was unsporting behaviour. The Long Room were absolutely right to boo them for it. They brought the game into disrepute.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It worked because they knew he went walkabout AT THE END OF THE OVER.

    Hence the reason it was unsporting behaviour. The Long Room were absolutely right to boo them for it. They brought the game into disrepute.
    But I don't think it was just at the end of the over. He did it during overs as well. And Carey threw the ball immediately, as fast as he possibly could have.

    From Jonathan Agnew's match report:

    "Bairstow had gone on the same wander down the pitch after each of the previous three balls"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66082593
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It worked because they knew he went walkabout AT THE END OF THE OVER.

    Hence the reason it was unsporting behaviour. The Long Room were absolutely right to boo them for it. They brought the game into disrepute.
    But I don't think it was just at the end of the over. He did it during overs as well. And Carey threw the ball immediately, as fast as he possibly could have.
    I think we all agree it was within the laws. But it was a wicket taken, at a crucial stage of the match and in the series, not by any sporting superiority but through a technicality.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It worked because they knew he went walkabout AT THE END OF THE OVER.

    Hence the reason it was unsporting behaviour. The Long Room were absolutely right to boo them for it. They brought the game into disrepute.
    But I don't think it was just at the end of the over. He did it during overs as well. And Carey threw the ball immediately, as fast as he possibly could have.

    From Jonathan Agnew's match report:

    "Bairstow had gone on the same wander down the pitch after each of the previous three balls"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66082593
    I didn't think 'wandering down the pitch' was a crucial consideration within the game of cricket - I thought it was all about batsmen hitting balls delivered by bowlers. But if that's how it's now going ...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It worked because they knew he went walkabout AT THE END OF THE OVER.

    Hence the reason it was unsporting behaviour. The Long Room were absolutely right to boo them for it. They brought the game into disrepute.
    But I don't think it was just at the end of the over. He did it during overs as well. And Carey threw the ball immediately, as fast as he possibly could have.

    From Jonathan Agnew's match report:

    "Bairstow had gone on the same wander down the pitch after each of the previous three balls"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66082593
    Still makes no difference. In fact it makes it worse. It is clear on each occasion he was doing it after the ball was considered dead. He even tapped his crease which made it clear it was not part of any movement in response to the delivery.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    edited July 2023
    Regarding a possible Tamworth by-election, the Tories have a serious organisational problem if there is one. Because they've just selected current MP for Walsall North, Eddie Hughes, as candidate for Tamworth at the next general election, since Walsall North is being abolished in boundary changes. But obviously such a move by Eddie Hughes only works in a general election context. He can't move to Tamworth for a by-election without causing a by-election in Walsall North. Bit of a headache for the Tories.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    A minor milestone in Germany. The AfD have won their first mayoral election in Raguhn-Jeßnitz.

    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/regional/sachsenanhalt/stichwahl-in-raguhn-jessnitz-100.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    "Proper media is for more sensible reporting of something that did happen."

    But they don't do that either. They are just pitifully slow, and when they do report, it is with lazy bias and a lack of nous

    Exactly, they sit in this awkward middle ground of being neither quick enough to tell you what is happening now, or slow enough to dispense with immediacy and take a considered view after the fact.

    It's really a very difficult problem for news channels and news shows. Probably they should spend less on news, and more on documentaries.

    I honestly think news reporting was a lot better when there was less of it, and the main news show was late in the day, and often bookended with current affairs documentaries.
    Yes, I entirely agree

    Their job in reporting "news" in the moment is over. Social media does it so much faster. albeit with flaws. But nothing can match its instant speed

    Legacy news needs to move to slower and considered analysis, or indeed political polemics (which should be allowed on all sides in a healthy polity)
    I think you're underplaying the "flaws". Last week I heard the Putin was in St Petersburg, Putin was fleeing east, Putin was in a bunker, Putin had been detained, Putin was dead.
    I heard Lukashenko was in Turkey, in Moscow, was also dead, was now taking over a new Russia-Belorussian union.
    I heard it was a coup, a revolution, a trap, a feint, an insurrection, a fiction, a CIA plot. I heard Wagner were already in Moscow and that they hadn't even left Rostov. I heard the Wagner column was bombed, was attacked by civilians, was cheered by civilians, and, again for emphasis, didn't exist.

    That's not "flaws". That's epistemological anarchy.
    That's what Bayes Theorem is for.

    For example, the only person saying Lukashenko was poised to lead a new Russia-Belorussian union was the one poster we have on here with a weird obsession about Lukashenko. So it's quite easy to assign a very low probability to that possibility. You can do the same to all the other possible events on your list on the basis of the reliability of the source for the information, whether it was from more than one source, came with any video or photographic evidence, etc.

    Now all that takes a bit more effort than blindly ingesting the assessment of a BBC correspondent, so you're only going to do it for something you're particularly interested in. and You will make mistakes, same as the BBC correspondent will.
    Lukashenia is already the President of the Russian-Belarusian joint union and has been for some time. Indeed it was in that capacity that he came to Moscow to broker the deal. His family did indeed fly to Turkey.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    The Polish prime minister has posted a video on Twitter comparing Poland with France.

    https://twitter.com/MorawieckiM/status/1674855346387537920
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    11:16: "You are my lucky star. Lucky lucky lucky star...".

    11:18: "Final report of the USS Nostromo..."

    11:19: "This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off...". The music rolls, as does the credits. The end
    Got rather tends there at the end.
    The music is odd. It's not a big rousing score like John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith, more a small spooky score, something that wouldn't be out of place in Planet Of The Apes or an episode of UFO. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's very period specific. But apart from that it's damn nearly timeless. The early computer graphics - if you can even call them that - famously get reused in Blade Runner. It invented all the clichés: sirens, alarms, Big Gothic Spaceship, "ten seconds to self-destruct", corridors with walls made out of perforated plastic, lighting from behind the walls, pull-away panels enabling immersive sets, gusts of carbon dioxide(?) to add atmosphere. There's only seven people in the cast. The set design is brilliant, and every time the effects are a bit dodgy, just pump more smoke into the studio. Three years later he did Blade Runner. Damn.
    Is it the first time you've seen it ?

    I watched it a couple of years ago, and found it much slower than I remembered, and slightly showing its age.

    When it first came out, genuinely scarey.
    Back then, Alien and Bladerunner were a new world. The dystopias seem almost comfortable now, so widely adopted the tropes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    edited July 2023
    China's new espionage law make detention of foreign journalists (and everyone else) likely for carrying out ordinary journalism. Just as Russia does.

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=354045
    ...Analysts view that ambiguous clauses of the new bill provides plenty of excuses for China to wrongfully accuse foreign nationals it dislikes, adding risks to bilateral relations between Seoul and Beijing that have been on thin ice in recent months.

    Compared to the previous anti-spy law which defined espionage as covering "state secrets and intelligence," the amended law ― which came into effect from Saturday ― more broadly views spying as accessing "any documents, data, materials and items related to national security and interests," as well as cyberattacks against state organizations or critical information infrastructure.

    But the new law does not define specifically what falls under China's national security or interests.

    Moreover, the new bill grants extensive investigative power to Chinese national security agencies, which now have the authority to gain access to data and information on personal property such as smartphones and laptops.

    The law also allows the authorities to impose exit bans on any suspected individual ― regardless of their nationality ― if they are deemed a potential national security risk if they leave China...

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    "Proper media is for more sensible reporting of something that did happen."

    But they don't do that either. They are just pitifully slow, and when they do report, it is with lazy bias and a lack of nous

    Exactly, they sit in this awkward middle ground of being neither quick enough to tell you what is happening now, or slow enough to dispense with immediacy and take a considered view after the fact.

    It's really a very difficult problem for news channels and news shows. Probably they should spend less on news, and more on documentaries.

    I honestly think news reporting was a lot better when there was less of it, and the main news show was late in the day, and often bookended with current affairs documentaries.
    Yes, I entirely agree

    Their job in reporting "news" in the moment is over. Social media does it so much faster. albeit with flaws. But nothing can match its instant speed

    Legacy news needs to move to slower and considered analysis, or indeed political polemics (which should be allowed on all sides in a healthy polity)
    I think you're underplaying the "flaws". Last week I heard the Putin was in St Petersburg, Putin was fleeing east, Putin was in a bunker, Putin had been detained, Putin was dead.
    I heard Lukashenko was in Turkey, in Moscow, was also dead, was now taking over a new Russia-Belorussian union.
    I heard it was a coup, a revolution, a trap, a feint, an insurrection, a fiction, a CIA plot. I heard Wagner were already in Moscow and that they hadn't even left Rostov. I heard the Wagner column was bombed, was attacked by civilians, was cheered by civilians, and, again for emphasis, didn't exist.

    That's not "flaws". That's epistemological anarchy.
    That's, either you're following the wrong people or you clicked the "For you" tab. Never click the "for you" tab.
  • gonatasgonatas Posts: 17
    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    "Proper media is for more sensible reporting of something that did happen."

    But they don't do that either. They are just pitifully slow, and when they do report, it is with lazy bias and a lack of nous

    Exactly, they sit in this awkward middle ground of being neither quick enough to tell you what is happening now, or slow enough to dispense with immediacy and take a considered view after the fact.

    It's really a very difficult problem for news channels and news shows. Probably they should spend less on news, and more on documentaries.

    I honestly think news reporting was a lot better when there was less of it, and the main news show was late in the day, and often bookended with current affairs documentaries.
    Yes, I entirely agree

    Their job in reporting "news" in the moment is over. Social media does it so much faster. albeit with flaws. But nothing can match its instant speed

    Legacy news needs to move to slower and considered analysis, or indeed political polemics (which should be allowed on all sides in a healthy polity)
    I think you're underplaying the "flaws". Last week I heard the Putin was in St Petersburg, Putin was fleeing east, Putin was in a bunker, Putin had been detained, Putin was dead.
    I heard Lukashenko was in Turkey, in Moscow, was also dead, was now taking over a new Russia-Belorussian union.
    I heard it was a coup, a revolution, a trap, a feint, an insurrection, a fiction, a CIA plot. I heard Wagner were already in Moscow and that they hadn't even left Rostov. I heard the Wagner column was bombed, was attacked by civilians, was cheered by civilians, and, again for emphasis, didn't exist.

    That's not "flaws". That's epistemological anarchy.
    That's, either you're following the wrong people or you clicked the "For you" tab. Never click the "for you" tab.
    Perhaps he was referring more to PB which grasped all those possibilities for its portfolio.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    The Scottish nationalists argue that Scotland has a historical identity that means it should get a special status in a way, that, say Cumbria doesn’t. O&S have a historical identity that warrant a special status in a different way to the rest of Scotland.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Norway is already outside the EU.
    So…? This isn’t about the EU. It’s about whether any sub-parts of a nation should get special treatment in a national referendum. Many in Scotland feel Scotland should in the Brexit referendum. I suggest that O&S should in a Scottish independence referendum.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    "As one SNP MP put it recently, the SNP is ‘intellectually dead from the neck up’ ..."

    Is there any other way you can be "dead from the neck up"?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    Curious how many folk feel able to Unionsplain on behalf of bits where - so far as I know - they have no vote or citizenship, actual or potential.

    Many in Edinburgh and Glasgow feel they can define what Scotland means. Many in London and Manchester feel they can define what the United Kingdom mean. I suggest that the people of O&S should get to decide their own future based on their own historical separate identity.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    That's disappointing from you - didn't have you down as a sporting anglo-phobe.
    I'm not always. I loved England's win in 2005.
    But I was always rooting for this Australia over this England, and today's shenanigans really tickled me.
    Yeah but I saw Ben Stokes hit arguably the greatest Test innings ever seen in England. In an ashes match. On the last day at Lord’s (which is, I’ve realised, my nearest cricket pitch)

    A mere loss to some Aussie gamesmanship is nothing compared to that. It is genuinely something I will cherish to my dying moment

    Like seeing Led Zep play live in the Marquee in 1971. Like seeing a young Olivier play Hamlet at the Old Vic. Like watching Zhukov giving orders in the black ruins of Stalingrad

    I WAS THERE
    Yea, yea, yea. Bit I was there for this:

    https://www.lords.org/lords/our-history/honours-boards/a-flintoff/142

    Actually, of course, that wasn't comparable with Stokes because it was nowhere near resulting in a win, but was still awesome to behold - in the crowd quite frightening in the way he was hitting some of those balls.
    Flintoff at his best was genius

    A notch below Stokes, I’d say, coz Stokes is also an incredible captain

    But close
    Better bowler.
    A genuine quick.
    For a short while one of the world's best.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    edited July 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    Curious how many folk feel able to Unionsplain on behalf of bits where - so far as I know - they have no vote or citizenship, actual or potential.

    Many in Edinburgh and Glasgow feel they can define what Scotland means. Many in London and Manchester feel they can define what the United Kingdom mean. I suggest that the people of O&S should get to decide their own future based on their own historical separate identity.
    I suggest Orkney and Shetland already have separate identities from each other and may have separate ambitions for their futures, particularly considering their different relationships with future oil reserves. Great that you're on board with people(s) having autonomy over deciding their constitutional futures, look forward to your support in pushing that principle with whichever Unionist party you vote for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    gonatas said:

    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.

    You are ignoring rule 30, regarding runouts.

    30.1.2 However, a batter shall not be considered to be out of his/her ground if, in running or diving towards his/her ground and beyond, and having grounded some part of his/her person or bat beyond the popping crease, there is subsequent loss of contact between the ground and any part of his/her person or bat, or between the bat and person.

    Bairstow could correctly argue he had set off on a run, and returned to his ground - he even turned round to check he had.

    Unsportsmanlike appeal, and poor umpiring, IMO.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491

    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    Curious how many folk feel able to Unionsplain on behalf of bits where - so far as I know - they have no vote or citizenship, actual or potential.

    Many in Edinburgh and Glasgow feel they can define what Scotland means. Many in London and Manchester feel they can define what the United Kingdom mean. I suggest that the people of O&S should get to decide their own future based on their own historical separate identity.
    I suggest Orkney and Shetland already have separate identities from each other and may have separate ambitions for their futures, particularly considering their different relationships with future oil reserves. Great that you're on board with people(s) having autonomy over deciding their constitutional futures, look forward to your support in pushing that principle with whichever Unionist party you vote for.
    Happy for Orkney and Shetland to get separate plebiscites.

    I always believe people should get to decide their own futures.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,477
    Nigelb said:

    gonatas said:

    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.

    You are ignoring rule 30, regarding runouts.

    30.1.2 However, a batter shall not be considered to be out of his/her ground if, in running or diving towards his/her ground and beyond, and having grounded some part of his/her person or bat beyond the popping crease, there is subsequent loss of contact between the ground and any part of his/her person or bat, or between the bat and person.

    Bairstow could correctly argue he had set off on a run, and returned to his ground - he even turned round to check he had.

    Unsportsmanlike appeal, and poor umpiring, IMO.
    But he wasn't run out.
    He was stumped.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Cricketers have arm tattoos these days? O tempora, o mores.

    Still, glad to see Bairstow has found something else to do after Blessed City, Heavenly Salem.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    gonatas said:

    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.

    You are ignoring rule 30, regarding runouts.

    30.1.2 However, a batter shall not be considered to be out of his/her ground if, in running or diving towards his/her ground and beyond, and having grounded some part of his/her person or bat beyond the popping crease, there is subsequent loss of contact between the ground and any part of his/her person or bat, or between the bat and person.

    Bairstow could correctly argue he had set off on a run, and returned to his ground - he even turned round to check he had.

    Unsportsmanlike appeal, and poor umpiring, IMO.
    But he wasn't run out.
    He was stumped.
    He was ruled to have been stumped, incorrectly in my view, as I explained.

    You can't be stumped if you've commenced a run.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    An essay by the Ukrainian writer killed in the Russian bombing of the pizzeria last week.
    A Russian speaker, as she explains in the piece.

    https://iwpcollections.squarespace.com/victoria-amelina
    ...As a Czech writer and one of the leading figures of the Prague Spring, Milan Kundera deeply understood what the brave Hungarian had meant, in Budapest in 1956, by dying for Europe. As a Ukrainian writer in Kyiv in 2022, I can’t stop thinking about the essay written in 1983 by the Czech author, in exile after the Prague Spring failed in 1968.

    We, Central Europeans, are ready to fight for Europe, even if at times our love may be unrequited. This readiness to die for Europe despite its betrayal and indifference is what makes us Central Europeans in the first place, be it in 1956, 1968, or 2014.

    "We are going to die for Hungary and for Europe," said the Hungarian News Agency director, but Europe didn't come to his country's rescue. It also didn't come to the Czechs’ rescue during Prague Spring in 1968, or the Ukrainians in 2014. If being a Central European is to be betrayed by Europe, Ukraine is certainly a member of the club.

    However, when Russia started the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Europe did take Ukrainians in and accepted us unconditionally...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It was very well timed. If the keeper had held onto it even for a second or two, or Bairstow a little slower in setting off, it would not have worked, yet the throw came at the precise moment needed.
    It was perhaps the most perfect thing I've seen on a cricket pitch.
    🇳🇿
    Perfectly abysmal.
    The cheapest of cheap shots.
    England , Bad Losers as ever.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,972
    Meanwhile...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/02/orkney-could-leave-uk-for-norway-as-it-explores-alternative-governance
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    gonatas said:

    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.

    You are ignoring rule 30, regarding runouts.

    30.1.2 However, a batter shall not be considered to be out of his/her ground if, in running or diving towards his/her ground and beyond, and having grounded some part of his/her person or bat beyond the popping crease, there is subsequent loss of contact between the ground and any part of his/her person or bat, or between the bat and person.

    Bairstow could correctly argue he had set off on a run, and returned to his ground - he even turned round to check he had.

    Unsportsmanlike appeal, and poor umpiring, IMO.
    But he wasn't run out.
    He was stumped.
    He was ruled to have been stumped, incorrectly in my view, as I explained.

    You can't be stumped if you've commenced a run.
    It was a bloody slow "run".

    The man screwed up, that is all. Thought the ball was dead, it was not.

    For all that I hear wailing and gnashing about the aussies for being cads, it felt more like it was the England fans / MCC morons who were behaving badly. Hence the MCC having to apologise to the aussies for the behaviour of their members.

    This is sport. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky. England won the world cup by a freak accident right at the end against NZ. In the rules even if unfair from a sporting perspective. The result stands and nobody here thinks it shouldn't. Until the result goes against you then its Hell On Earth.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    .
    Nigelb said:

    An essay by the Ukrainian writer killed in the Russian bombing of the pizzeria last week.
    A Russian speaker, as she explains in the piece.

    https://iwpcollections.squarespace.com/victoria-amelina
    ...As a Czech writer and one of the leading figures of the Prague Spring, Milan Kundera deeply understood what the brave Hungarian had meant, in Budapest in 1956, by dying for Europe. As a Ukrainian writer in Kyiv in 2022, I can’t stop thinking about the essay written in 1983 by the Czech author, in exile after the Prague Spring failed in 1968.

    We, Central Europeans, are ready to fight for Europe, even if at times our love may be unrequited. This readiness to die for Europe despite its betrayal and indifference is what makes us Central Europeans in the first place, be it in 1956, 1968, or 2014.

    "We are going to die for Hungary and for Europe," said the Hungarian News Agency director, but Europe didn't come to his country's rescue. It also didn't come to the Czechs’ rescue during Prague Spring in 1968, or the Ukrainians in 2014. If being a Central European is to be betrayed by Europe, Ukraine is certainly a member of the club.

    However, when Russia started the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Europe did take Ukrainians in and accepted us unconditionally...

    Next time Russia claims to act on behalf of Russian speakers in Ukraine, remember the words of the writer they murdered.
    ...At the contest in Moscow I met kids from all those countries Russia would later try to invade or assimilate: Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Moldova. The Russian Federation invested a lot of money in raising children like us from the "former Soviet republics" as Russians. They probably invested more in us than they did in the education of children in rural Russia: those who were already conquered didn't need to be tempted with summer camps and excursions to the Red Square.

    Hopefully I will have turned out to be one of the worst investments of the Russian Federation.

    In Moscow, a famous journalist from ORT, a top Russian TV channel at the time, approached me for an interview on the evening news. I was flattered and almost felt like a star. The journalist started with a polite question about how I liked the event and the Russian capital, but quickly moved on to her real agenda. She said that we all know Russian speakers are oppressed, and then invited me to participate in the propaganda: "How oppressed do you feel as a Russian speaker in the west of Ukraine? How dangerous is it to speak Russian on the streets of your hometown, Lviv?"

    I gasped as I realized that I wasn't a star at all; I was just being used to manipulate millions of evening news viewers. The huge camera was watching me and a big, professional microphone was in front of me for the first time in my life. I was only fifteen years-old. But in that split second, I had to figure out once and for all where the borders of my home were. I wasn't Russian, after all–I was a Ukrainian kid brought to Moscow to reinforce certain Russian narratives. I may have believed that Russia was a great country with peace at its core, but I only felt that way because of watching the very channel that was now trying to manipulate an inexperienced fifteen-year-old like me...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    The Scottish nationalists argue that Scotland has a historical identity that means it should get a special status in a way, that, say Cumbria doesn’t. O&S have a historical identity that warrant a special status in a different way to the rest of Scotland.
    Given that Scotland does have a legal and national identity *at present* that is a distinct misapprehension. That reflects history, but does not directly depend on a historical identity.

    Illogical for you to demand that a referendum for independence for Scotland includes the instant breakup of the new state. Also illogical for youy to demand that voters vote on a second order event when they don't know the result of the first one. Makes much more sense for Orcadians to vote on their own independence when they see what the landscape is like, which is fine with me. And "Britain" does have a history of trying to sabotage independence by Partition, which is what you sound like, rightly or wrongly.

    The Orkney complaints, in any case, seem to centre on the current situation and are not to do with independence for Scotland per se. They seem to centre in part on the fact that the Shetlanders are getting more money. Presumably this reflects the relative deals struck by the then local authorities and the oil companies etc., and I can't see that the Shetlanders can be blamed for getting more oil/money in their areas.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    The Scottish nationalists argue that Scotland has a historical identity that means it should get a special status in a way, that, say Cumbria doesn’t. O&S have a historical identity that warrant a special status in a different way to the rest of Scotland.
    Given that Scotland does have a legal and national identity *at present* that is a distinct misapprehension. That reflects history, but does not directly depend on a historical identity.

    Illogical for you to demand that a referendum for independence for Scotland includes the instant breakup of the new state. Also illogical for youy to demand that voters vote on a second order event when they don't know the result of the first one. Makes much more sense for Orcadians to vote on their own independence when they see what the landscape is like, which is fine with me. And "Britain" does have a history of trying to sabotage independence by Partition, which is what you sound like, rightly or wrongly.

    The Orkney complaints, in any case, seem to centre on the current situation and are not to do with independence for Scotland per se. They seem to centre in part on the fact that the Shetlanders are getting more money. Presumably this reflects the relative deals struck by the then local authorities and the oil companies etc., and I can't see that the Shetlanders can be blamed for getting more oil/money in their areas.
    I was only suggesting an Orkney vote *after* a successful Scottish independence vote, so I think that means we are in agreement.

    Yes, Britain (including England and Scotland) has sought to sabotage independence movements. I think there’s a limit to the applicability of the history of the disassembling of a colonial Empire to the history of England and Scotland’s relationship.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    edited July 2023
    .....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    It was very well timed. If the keeper had held onto it even for a second or two, or Bairstow a little slower in setting off, it would not have worked, yet the throw came at the precise moment needed.
    It was perhaps the most perfect thing I've seen on a cricket pitch.
    🇳🇿
    Perfectly abysmal.
    The cheapest of cheap shots.
    England , Bad Losers as ever.
    Morning, malc.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    NEW THREAD, so Orkney's fate will forever be unknown
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263

    Meanwhile...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/02/orkney-could-leave-uk-for-norway-as-it-explores-alternative-governance

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    gonatas said:

    This is a me too movement I can definitely join. Don't wander about until the ball is dead.

    You are ignoring rule 30, regarding runouts.

    30.1.2 However, a batter shall not be considered to be out of his/her ground if, in running or diving towards his/her ground and beyond, and having grounded some part of his/her person or bat beyond the popping crease, there is subsequent loss of contact between the ground and any part of his/her person or bat, or between the bat and person.

    Bairstow could correctly argue he had set off on a run, and returned to his ground - he even turned round to check he had.

    Unsportsmanlike appeal, and poor umpiring, IMO.
    But he wasn't run out.
    He was stumped.
    He was ruled to have been stumped, incorrectly in my view, as I explained.

    You can't be stumped if you've commenced a run.
    It was a bloody slow "run".

    The man screwed up, that is all. Thought the ball was dead, it was not.

    For all that I hear wailing and gnashing about the aussies for being cads, it felt more like it was the England fans / MCC morons who were behaving badly. Hence the MCC having to apologise to the aussies for the behaviour of their members.

    This is sport. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky. England won the world cup by a freak accident right at the end against NZ. In the rules even if unfair from a sporting perspective. The result stands and nobody here thinks it shouldn't. Until the result goes against you then its Hell On Earth.
    There's no challenging the umpire's ruling.
    But it's perfectly fair to say that it was incorrect.
    And there's no rule about how quickly you need to run.

    And yes, it's sport - bad sportsmen are not uncommon.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    Farooq said:

    Just caught the clip of Bairstow being run out and it's funnier than I imagined. They way the keeper threw at the stumps straight away, knowing ginge would wander off. The crowd booing because they're thick as shit. The blank confusion on Bairstow's face.

    They pulled his trousers down and spanked his arse in broad daylight. Amazing.

    Rubbish. The umpire behaved as if it was over. Bairstow believed it was over. The Aussies showed how low they are prepared to go to win yet again.
    Never forget sandpaper.
    SANDPAPER. bunch of cheating xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxs…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Carnyx said:

    Any Scottish independence referendum should give Orkney and the Shetlands an escape clause.
    As in, escape to Norway?
    Many in Scotland complained of being dragged out of the EU against their will. Likewise, the people of O&S should not be dragged out of the UK against their will, should Scotland vote for independence. In that eventuality, they should be given the option to stay in the UK or to chart another path separate to the rest of Scotland.
    Just Orkney and Shetland? No other parts that might be given the same clause?
    The Scottish nationalists argue that Scotland has a historical identity that means it should get a special status in a way, that, say Cumbria doesn’t. O&S have a historical identity that warrant a special status in a different way to the rest of Scotland.
    Given that Scotland does have a legal and national identity *at present* that is a distinct misapprehension. That reflects history, but does not directly depend on a historical identity.

    Illogical for you to demand that a referendum for independence for Scotland includes the instant breakup of the new state. Also illogical for youy to demand that voters vote on a second order event when they don't know the result of the first one. Makes much more sense for Orcadians to vote on their own independence when they see what the landscape is like, which is fine with me. And "Britain" does have a history of trying to sabotage independence by Partition, which is what you sound like, rightly or wrongly.

    The Orkney complaints, in any case, seem to centre on the current situation and are not to do with independence for Scotland per se. They seem to centre in part on the fact that the Shetlanders are getting more money. Presumably this reflects the relative deals struck by the then local authorities and the oil companies etc., and I can't see that the Shetlanders can be blamed for getting more oil/money in their areas.
    I was only suggesting an Orkney vote *after* a successful Scottish independence vote, so I think that means we are in agreement.

    Yes, Britain (including England and Scotland) has sought to sabotage independence movements. I think there’s a limit to the applicability of the history of the disassembling of a colonial Empire to the history of England and Scotland’s relationship.
    Indeed, we agree. But on the latter point, many a unionist instantly responds to indyref2 by proposing partition (e.g. PB passim). So it's still applicable in the semse of very much part of the universe of discourse.
This discussion has been closed.