A 25% swing from Leave puts Remain on 73% and a 46% lead over Leave – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.Foxy said:
I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.Casino_Royale said:
Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?IanB2 said:
He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.Nigelb said:I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.
Hidden depths.
It's an international competition.
People are backing their own countries.
Lesson there.0 -
I thought it sounded like "Dynamite" by Mud.Foxy said:Croatia tick all the boxes...
0 -
I think that is the point.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.1 -
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?0 -
The can and do already vote in local elections and devolved administration electionswilliamglenn said:
The article says it refers to EU citizens who live in the UK.geoffw said:It must be referring to expats living in Europe
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Better quality image here-rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/
Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
tax here.
Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
0 -
Election Day dawns and the first news is that the new domain for Turkey's largest social media network has been banned
https://twitter.com/06JAnk/status/16574933643070013510 -
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.0 -
Mae Muller..... wasn't very good.......
We won't, but we're not winning it. Not sure we'll even make top half.Sunil_Prasannan said:UK were OK, hopefully we won't get nul points
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Then do it state by state on a bilateral basiswilliamglenn said:
The EU can't offer that deal because voting rights in national elections is a national competence.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
Labour seems very keen to give stuff away with no reciprocity
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Compared to the studio recording, Mae is like 10x worse.
Why they chose somebody without seeing if she could sing live I will never know0 -
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.0 -
The other similar group is Commonwealth and they already can do so.Stuartinromford said:
Better quality image here-rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/
Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
tax here.
Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?0 -
Interval act time!0
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Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.0 -
Yes, but what lesson? One possible lesson is that it's possible to hold strong Europhilia and strong national patriotism at the same time.Casino_Royale said:
I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.Foxy said:
I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.Casino_Royale said:
Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?IanB2 said:
He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.Nigelb said:I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.
Hidden depths.
It's an international competition.
People are backing their own countries.
Lesson there.1 -
Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=190 -
It's red meat to his Remainer base, and plays to the global citizen thing. Keeps them on board.rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
It also allows him to draw upon an alternative base of support, once he betrays the soft Tories who'll get him into office.0 -
Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?0 -
In the arena?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
Couldn't they wait until tomorrow?0 -
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.0 -
They were invited to join for the 60th anniversary (2015 I think), but were allowed to compete in subsequent contests.ping said:Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?0 -
Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.0 -
The only way that works is if the EU pitches itself as a protector and guarantor of national identity.Stuartinromford said:
Yes, but what lesson? One possible lesson is that it's possible to hold strong Europhilia and strong national patriotism at the same time.Casino_Royale said:
I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.Foxy said:
I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.Casino_Royale said:
Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?IanB2 said:
He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.Nigelb said:I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.
Hidden depths.
It's an international competition.
People are backing their own countries.
Lesson there.
They might have far more luck if they tried that tack, rather than federalism0 -
EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears0 -
They certainly won’t be voting for the Tories ! So expect the right wing press over the next few days to go ballistic if this DT headline is confirmed .Stuartinromford said:
Better quality image here-rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/
Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
tax here.
Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?0 -
The big question is , who drove the campervan north?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contestping said:Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?0 -
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.0 -
If anyone has settled status and pays tax of course they should be able to voteDialup said:EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears1 -
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.0 -
SNPgate is getter ever weirder.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=191 -
This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/16574906445064970340 -
Jenkin's 1990s AMS system report is still sat on the Labour shelf.NeilVW said:
Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.0 -
It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=191 -
And was it bought on Amazon?geoffw said:
The big question is , who drove the campervan north?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
0 -
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.1 -
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the ToriesCasino_Royale said:
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.0 -
EU nationals can already vote in council elections and when you frame it as “ settled immigrants who pay tax” the latter is the key point. The policy does come with risks but I’d be surprised if Labour haven’t road tested this.1
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We'd get a left-wing bloc and right-wing bloc on roughly 40-45% each together with gadflies and centrist liberals. They'd chop and change a fair bit and no-one would be in power forever.HYUFD said:
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the ToriesCasino_Royale said:
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.1 -
Why not? It’s only what they are doing to him and his people.CatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/16574906445064970340 -
I think he's engaging in anchoring.CatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".6 -
If they actually mean to do it, it has to be in the manifesto. And they want the row about it to be now, not when the manifesto is launched in Autumn '24. And they want to see how big the row is, to know if to put it in the manifesto at all. So half preparation, and half kite-flying?rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.0 -
If Australia win they’re not allowed to hold next years contest . I think it goes to the runner-up.kinabalu said:
Yes, odd. If they ever won it would cause problems.ping said:Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?0 -
Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.HYUFD said:
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the ToriesCasino_Royale said:
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.1 -
Entirely non suspicious action.Nigelb said:Election Day dawns and the first news is that the new domain for Turkey's largest social media network has been banned
https://twitter.com/06JAnk/status/16574933643070013510 -
Why would you seek to play down something as potentially serious as this ?Mexicanpete said:
It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=190 -
Woah for the first time, yes 100% I agree with you!Big_G_NorthWales said:
If anyone has settled status and pays tax of course they should be able to voteDialup said:EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears0 -
Given the Russian invaders come, obviously, from Russia, the idea it would be beyond the pale to advance into Russia itself is also obviously barmy (notwithstanding nuclear concerns), so there would presumably be military benefit to attacking that area more, especially if Crimea and other areas are entrenched.rcs1000 said:
I think he's engaging in anchoring.CatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
But as you say it gives him an easy 'concession' to his partners.0 -
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rishi-sunaks-mini-honeymoon-is-over-and-the-knives-are-out-for-him-again_uk_645cf4c9e4b0c10612ea1c2f
The Tories give up according to Huffington Post0 -
No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.rcs1000 said:
I think he's engaging in anchoring.CatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".0 -
They would co-host it with a European countrynico679 said:
If Australia win they’re not allowed to hold next years contest . I think it goes to the runner-up.kinabalu said:
Yes, odd. If they ever won it would cause problems.ping said:Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?
https://eurovoix.com/2017/05/13/happens-australia-wins-eurovision-song-contest/0 -
I quite liked what Jenkins came up with, but I’m a nerd. Too hard to explain to the man on the Clapham Omnibus.rottenborough said:
Jenkin's 1990s AMS system report is still sat on the Labour shelf.NeilVW said:
Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.0 -
You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.Casino_Royale said:
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.2 -
Lennon should come with a distressing content warning.1
-
I'm fine with the plan, but I think presenting it in those terms, as though it is inherently weird not to permit it, is unfair - it cannot possibly be uncommon for nations to restrict the vote in national elections to their own citizens. 5 seconds on google suggests that is the case in France for example.Dialup said:EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears0 -
Sounds like someone forgot the difference between an organisation and a personal piggy bankFF43 said:
SNPgate is getter ever weirder.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=190 -
Who is that murdering "Imagine"?
Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful0 -
You have a super sensitive 'class war' detector. But, yes, that private school policy is important. It's hardly red meat, it's more of a bone, but it is important because it shows he hasn't forgotten us.Casino_Royale said:
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.0 -
Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.
He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.
He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.
I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead0 -
Yes, it's definitely working. But it won't last long into Government where he will have to start disappointing people, and show where his true colours lie.Northern_Al said:
You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.Casino_Royale said:
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.0 -
Well I'm not confident on my 8/1 UK top 10 coming in. She was a bit underwhelming.
Italy and Israel were the standouts for me.0 -
If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.Casino_Royale said:
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.2 -
Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!0
-
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds seems to be an olive branch to the left . I’m sure EU nationals are well aware of which party were handmaidens of a despicable campaign against them and will vote accordingly .
0 -
Great cover of Kitten's "Home Again" though.Mexicanpete said:Who is that murdering "Imagine"?
Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful0 -
I'm sure you're right. Soon, the Telegraph will be letting us know that Starmer has promised anybody who arrives in a small boat several votes each in all elections.FF43 said:
If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.Casino_Royale said:
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.CatMan said:
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.rcs1000 said:
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.CatMan said:
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?rcs1000 said:
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.williamglenn said:
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.0 -
I don't know if they are true or not but the allegations are certainly eye catching.Malmesbury said:
Sounds like someone forgot the difference between an organisation and a personal piggy bankFF43 said:
SNPgate is getter ever weirder.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=190 -
I like Mae but we’re not allowed a vote so I’ve voted 3 times for Cyprus which was my fave of the night and thrown a vote each to Australia, Ukraine and France .0
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Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PRMexicanpete said:
Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.HYUFD said:
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the ToriesCasino_Royale said:
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.0 -
No, we heard it from Horse first, surely?Dialup said:Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!
0 -
Yes you heard it from Horse first. I hope he will be allowed back.Northern_Al said:
No, we heard it from Horse first, surely?Dialup said:Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!
0 -
The wonderful Netta. Toy in 2019 was utterly spectacular in every way https://youtu.be/84LBjXaeKk4Mexicanpete said:Who is that murdering "Imagine"?
Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful2 -
And that’s just in the Scottish government?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
0 -
...
BigG. you always get very excited when your political foes appear to be in trouble, remember Currygate? And for example on the flipside you played down Partygate at its height.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why would you seek to play down something as potentially serious as this ?Mexicanpete said:
It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
I accept the SNP are in trouble, but I suspect the Mail are gilding this particular lily. I don't believe Labour, or the Conservatives will benefit as much as we are told, from the SNP's travails.1 -
Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.-1
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Yep. Very much so. But technical edit: the expulsions haven't been "left, right and centre". Just "left".Dialup said:Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.
He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.
He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.
I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead0 -
While you may, of course, be right, once Ukraine controls Maripol, there will no longer be a land bridge to Crimea. That will make it very hard for Russia to supply its forces there.williamglenn said:
No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.rcs1000 said:
I think he's engaging in anchoring.CatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".2 -
Two nights in a row Russia have hit large arms depots in Ukraine. I don't know why they suddenly know where these arms depots are after a year of throwing their missiles against less consequential targets, but it's a major problem for Ukraine.0
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Sent defender is a Russian backed organisationCatMan said:This is a bit woah:
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
But this looks like a long list of potential options ra try et than a specific plan
0 -
Apologies if already posted but the Norway song is the backing tune to a coup by Penny Mordaunt. The singer even wore a similar outfit.1
-
I am aware of all of that, but there was something unique happening during the Brexit years. That is not to say that won't happen again, but I believe Conservatives will not be in Government for all but 24 of the next 71 (going on 73) yearsHYUFD said:
Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PRMexicanpete said:
Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.HYUFD said:
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the ToriesCasino_Royale said:
You're not thinking straight.Mexicanpete said:
Uncoalitionable Tories.Casino_Royale said:
What makes you say that?Mexicanpete said:
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.Casino_Royale said:
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.StillWaters said:
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?Dialup said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
P S. He hasn't won yet.
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.0 -
Some ideas:CorrectHorseBat said:Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.
4CorrectHorseBat
CorrectHorseBat4
CorrectHorseB4t0 -
Counting time!0
-
UK 4 points from Ukraine!
No nul points this year!0 -
Solid start for UK. Sweden expected to romp it. In line with my internal polling.0
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I can assure you I am the CorrectHorseBatteryRochdalePioneers said:
Some ideas:CorrectHorseBat said:Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.
4CorrectHorseBat
CorrectHorseBat4
CorrectHorseB4t0 -
Isn't Hannah Waddingham fabulous? I had never heard of her until a few weeks ago1
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There seems to be something of an appetite for a right wing party in the blue wall. There also seems to be an appetite for a right wing party in the red wall. Unfortunately for the Tories, those parties appear to be mutually exclusive to each other. PR creates an opening for both of those parties to exist without the conflict we saw play out ast week.0
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Are these the jury and public votes combined?0
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I think the UK is safe in not having to worry about hosting the contest again next year........0
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No. Just jury.Andy_JS said:Are these the jury and public votes combined?
0 -
No, these are just jury votes. They do the public vote afterwards in one go.Andy_JS said:Are these the jury and public votes combined?
0 -
I think it's jury only. Public vote will be reported in aggregate at the endAndy_JS said:Are these the jury and public votes combined?
0
