Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
I wonder if there is currently any country which allows all permanent residents of age to vote. I know there are some countries which have limited arrangements like we have with Ireland - Portugal & Brazil, for example.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
It's red meat to his Remainer base, and plays to the global citizen thing. Keeps them on board.
It also allows him to draw upon an alternative base of support, once he betrays the soft Tories who'll get him into office.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay tax here.
Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
They certainly won’t be voting for the Tories ! So expect the right wing press over the next few days to go ballistic if this DT headline is confirmed .
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
EU nationals can already vote in council elections and when you frame it as “ settled immigrants who pay tax” the latter is the key point. The policy does come with risks but I’d be surprised if Labour haven’t road tested this.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.
P S. He hasn't won yet.
What makes you say that?
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Uncoalitionable Tories.
You're not thinking straight.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
We'd get a left-wing bloc and right-wing bloc on roughly 40-45% each together with gadflies and centrist liberals. They'd chop and change a fair bit and no-one would be in power forever.
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
If they actually mean to do it, it has to be in the manifesto. And they want the row about it to be now, not when the manifesto is launched in Autumn '24. And they want to see how big the row is, to know if to put it in the manifesto at all. So half preparation, and half kite-flying?
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
Given the Russian invaders come, obviously, from Russia, the idea it would be beyond the pale to advance into Russia itself is also obviously barmy (notwithstanding nuclear concerns), so there would presumably be military benefit to attacking that area more, especially if Crimea and other areas are entrenched.
But as you say it gives him an easy 'concession' to his partners.
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.
Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.
EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears
I'm fine with the plan, but I think presenting it in those terms, as though it is inherently weird not to permit it, is unfair - it cannot possibly be uncommon for nations to restrict the vote in national elections to their own citizens. 5 seconds on google suggests that is the case in France for example.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
You have a super sensitive 'class war' detector. But, yes, that private school policy is important. It's hardly red meat, it's more of a bone, but it is important because it shows he hasn't forgotten us.
Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.
He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.
He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.
I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.
Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.
Yes, it's definitely working. But it won't last long into Government where he will have to start disappointing people, and show where his true colours lie.
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds seems to be an olive branch to the left . I’m sure EU nationals are well aware of which party were handmaidens of a despicable campaign against them and will vote accordingly .
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.
I'm sure you're right. Soon, the Telegraph will be letting us know that Starmer has promised anybody who arrives in a small boat several votes each in all elections.
I like Mae but we’re not allowed a vote so I’ve voted 3 times for Cyprus which was my fave of the night and thrown a vote each to Australia, Ukraine and France .
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.
P S. He hasn't won yet.
What makes you say that?
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Uncoalitionable Tories.
You're not thinking straight.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.
Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PR
I like Mae but we’re not allowed a vote so I’ve voted 3 times for Cyprus which was my fave of the night and thrown a vote each to Australia, Ukraine and France .
It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.
Why would you seek to play down something as potentially serious as this ?
BigG. you always get very excited when your political foes appear to be in trouble, remember Currygate? And for example on the flipside you played down Partygate at its height.
I accept the SNP are in trouble, but I suspect the Mail are gilding this particular lily. I don't believe Labour, or the Conservatives will benefit as much as we are told, from the SNP's travails.
Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.
He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.
He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.
I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead
Yep. Very much so. But technical edit: the expulsions haven't been "left, right and centre". Just "left".
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.
While you may, of course, be right, once Ukraine controls Maripol, there will no longer be a land bridge to Crimea. That will make it very hard for Russia to supply its forces there.
Two nights in a row Russia have hit large arms depots in Ukraine. I don't know why they suddenly know where these arms depots are after a year of throwing their missiles against less consequential targets, but it's a major problem for Ukraine.
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday
Good.
Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?
Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.
P S. He hasn't won yet.
What makes you say that?
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Uncoalitionable Tories.
You're not thinking straight.
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.
Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PR
I am aware of all of that, but there was something unique happening during the Brexit years. That is not to say that won't happen again, but I believe Conservatives will not be in Government for all but 24 of the next 71 (going on 73) years
There seems to be something of an appetite for a right wing party in the blue wall. There also seems to be an appetite for a right wing party in the red wall. Unfortunately for the Tories, those parties appear to be mutually exclusive to each other. PR creates an opening for both of those parties to exist without the conflict we saw play out ast week.
Comments
People are backing their own countries.
Lesson there.
https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/
Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
tax here.
Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
https://twitter.com/06JAnk/status/1657493364307001351
P S. He hasn't won yet.
Labour seems very keen to give stuff away with no reciprocity
Why they chose somebody without seeing if she could sing live I will never know
I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
Reminds me of the late lamented Madame JoJos on Brewer Street
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
It also allows him to draw upon an alternative base of support, once he betrays the soft Tories who'll get him into office.
Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?
Couldn't they wait until tomorrow?
They might have far more luck if they tried that tack, rather than federalism
Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.
Crocodile tears
Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.
Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
"U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.
Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.
Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
But as you say it gives him an easy 'concession' to his partners.
The Tories give up according to Huffington Post
https://eurovoix.com/2017/05/13/happens-australia-wins-eurovision-song-contest/
Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.
Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful
He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.
He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.
I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead
Italy and Israel were the standouts for me.
I accept the SNP are in trouble, but I suspect the Mail are gilding this particular lily. I don't believe Labour, or the Conservatives will benefit as much as we are told, from the SNP's travails.
But this looks like a long list of potential options ra try et than a specific plan
4CorrectHorseBat
CorrectHorseBat4
CorrectHorseB4t
No nul points this year!