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A 25% swing from Leave puts Remain on 73% and a 46% lead over Leave – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.

    Hidden depths.

    He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.
    Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?

    It's an international competition.
    I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.
    I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.

    People are backing their own countries.

    Lesson there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Foxy said:

    Croatia tick all the boxes...

    I thought it sounded like "Dynamite" by Mud.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I think that is the point.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744

    geoffw said:

    It must be referring to expats living in Europe

    The article says it refers to EU citizens who live in the UK.
    The can and do already vote in local elections and devolved administration elections
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293
    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Better quality image here-

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/

    Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
    tax here.

    Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Election Day dawns and the first news is that the new domain for Turkey's largest social media network has been banned
    https://twitter.com/06JAnk/status/1657493364307001351
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited May 2023

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Mae Muller..... wasn't very good.......

    UK were OK, hopefully we won't get nul points :)

    We won't, but we're not winning it. Not sure we'll even make top half.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,324

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    The EU can't offer that deal because voting rights in national elections is a national competence.
    Then do it state by state on a bilateral basis

    Labour seems very keen to give stuff away with no reciprocity
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Compared to the studio recording, Mae is like 10x worse.

    Why they chose somebody without seeing if she could sing live I will never know
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Foxy said:

    Croatia tick all the boxes...

    High Camp circa '88.

    Reminds me of the late lamented Madame JoJos on Brewer Street

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,809

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Better quality image here-

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/

    Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
    tax here.

    Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
    The other similar group is Commonwealth and they already can do so.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,950
    Interval act time!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,293

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.

    Hidden depths.

    He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.
    Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?

    It's an international competition.
    I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.
    I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.

    People are backing their own countries.

    Lesson there.
    Yes, but what lesson? One possible lesson is that it's possible to hold strong Europhilia and strong national patriotism at the same time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,228
    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    It's red meat to his Remainer base, and plays to the global citizen thing. Keeps them on board.

    It also allows him to draw upon an alternative base of support, once he betrays the soft Tories who'll get him into office.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    In the arena?

    Couldn't they wait until tomorrow?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,950
    edited May 2023
    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    They were invited to join for the 60th anniversary (2015 I think), but were allowed to compete in subsequent contests.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I'm just surprised that Casino is watching the camp, European wokefest that is Eurovision.

    Hidden depths.

    He’s there waving his little blue and yellow starred flag, not that he’d ever admit it.
    Do you see many of those being flown in the audience?

    It's an international competition.
    I think only flags of entrants are allowed. They have had problems with secessionist in the past.
    I've seen a couple. But 99%+ are not.

    People are backing their own countries.

    Lesson there.
    Yes, but what lesson? One possible lesson is that it's possible to hold strong Europhilia and strong national patriotism at the same time.
    The only way that works is if the EU pitches itself as a protector and guarantor of national identity.

    They might have far more luck if they tried that tack, rather than federalism
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?

    Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.

    Crocodile tears
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Better quality image here-

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/sunday-telegraph-front-page-2023-05-14/

    Plan seems to be for settled migrants who live in the UK permanently and pay
    tax here.

    Is that a category that only applies to EU citizens?
    They certainly won’t be voting for the Tories ! So expect the right wing press over the next few days to go ballistic if this DT headline is confirmed .
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    The big question is , who drove the campervan north?

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    They are members of the European Broadcasting Union, as are Israel.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,228
    Dialup said:

    EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?

    Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.

    Crocodile tears

    If anyone has settled status and pays tax of course they should be able to vote
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Croatia tick all the boxes...

    High Camp circa '88.

    Reminds me of the late lamented Madame JoJos on Brewer Street
    I used to go there a lot during a time when I went everywhere a lot. Fond but hazy memories.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    SNPgate is getter ever weirder.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited May 2023
    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    NeilVW said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.
    Jenkin's 1990s AMS system report is still sat on the Labour shelf.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    geoffw said:

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    The big question is , who drove the campervan north?

    And was it bought on Amazon?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
    Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    Yes, odd. If they ever won it would cause problems.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    EU nationals can already vote in council elections and when you frame it as “ settled immigrants who pay tax” the latter is the key point. The policy does come with risks but I’d be surprised if Labour haven’t road tested this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    HYUFD said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
    Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
    We'd get a left-wing bloc and right-wing bloc on roughly 40-45% each together with gadflies and centrist liberals. They'd chop and change a fair bit and no-one would be in power forever.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,562
    CatMan said:

    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034

    Why not? It’s only what they are doing to him and his people.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    Yes, odd. If they ever won it would cause problems.
    If Australia win they’re not allowed to hold next years contest . I think it goes to the runner-up.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,652
    edited May 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    If they actually mean to do it, it has to be in the manifesto. And they want the row about it to be now, not when the manifesto is launched in Autumn '24. And they want to see how big the row is, to know if to put it in the manifesto at all. So half preparation, and half kite-flying?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    HYUFD said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
    Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
    Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Nigelb said:

    Election Day dawns and the first news is that the new domain for Turkey's largest social media network has been banned
    https://twitter.com/06JAnk/status/1657493364307001351

    Entirely non suspicious action.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,228

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.
    Why would you seek to play down something as potentially serious as this ?
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?

    Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.

    Crocodile tears

    If anyone has settled status and pays tax of course they should be able to vote
    Woah for the first time, yes 100% I agree with you!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034

    I think he's engaging in anchoring.

    He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.

    Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
    Given the Russian invaders come, obviously, from Russia, the idea it would be beyond the pale to advance into Russia itself is also obviously barmy (notwithstanding nuclear concerns), so there would presumably be military benefit to attacking that area more, especially if Crimea and other areas are entrenched.

    But as you say it gives him an easy 'concession' to his partners.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034

    I think he's engaging in anchoring.

    He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.

    Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
    No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    nico679 said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Apologies for asking an obvious question that must have been asked a million times before, but…

    Why the hell is Australia in Eurovision?

    Yes, odd. If they ever won it would cause problems.
    If Australia win they’re not allowed to hold next years contest . I think it goes to the runner-up.
    They would co-host it with a European country

    https://eurovoix.com/2017/05/13/happens-australia-wins-eurovision-song-contest/
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732

    NeilVW said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    Bit different in PR where you might have several right-leaning splinter parties. Depends on the system chosen, of course.
    Jenkin's 1990s AMS system report is still sat on the Labour shelf.
    I quite liked what Jenkins came up with, but I’m a nerd. Too hard to explain to the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,405

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
    You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.

    Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Lennon should come with a distressing content warning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Dialup said:

    EU citizens shouldn't get to vote if they're settled because...?

    Of course the same people are happy to see voters disenfranchised when they don't vote Tory.

    Crocodile tears

    I'm fine with the plan, but I think presenting it in those terms, as though it is inherently weird not to permit it, is unfair - it cannot possibly be uncommon for nations to restrict the vote in national elections to their own citizens. 5 seconds on google suggests that is the case in France for example.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515
    FF43 said:

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    SNPgate is getter ever weirder.
    Sounds like someone forgot the difference between an organisation and a personal piggy bank
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited May 2023
    Who is that murdering "Imagine"?

    Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    edited May 2023

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
    You have a super sensitive 'class war' detector. But, yes, that private school policy is important. It's hardly red meat, it's more of a bone, but it is important because it shows he hasn't forgotten us.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.

    He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.

    He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.

    I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
    You're right. Very methodically, brick by brick, Starmer is building an unbeatable alliance of voters who can find just enough in Labour's offer to tempt them. He's systematically picking off one group at a time and giving them reason to vote Labour. He knows exactly what he's doing with every speech and every policy announcement.

    Whatever you think, and whether or not Mandelson is giving advice, it's quite impressive. And seems to be working.
    Yes, it's definitely working. But it won't last long into Government where he will have to start disappointing people, and show where his true colours lie.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    Well I'm not confident on my 8/1 UK top 10 coming in. She was a bit underwhelming.

    Italy and Israel were the standouts for me.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
    If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Votes for 16 and 17 year olds seems to be an olive branch to the left . I’m sure EU nationals are well aware of which party were handmaidens of a despicable campaign against them and will vote accordingly .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327

    Who is that murdering "Imagine"?

    Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful

    Great cover of Kitten's "Home Again" though.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,405
    FF43 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    That could be a big political mistake. It's more toxic than promising to bring back EU movement beause it goes to the heart of how we define the demos.
    It's very odd: there aren't any obvious votes in it, and (lest we forget) it's not like EU citizens (other than the Irish and the Maltese) had a vote in our General Elections in the past.
    Surely most EU citizens who live in the UK aren't going to vote Tory though, are they?
    I'm thinking short-term. There's an election in 18 months time, why would Labour propose any policy that would horrify a lot of people, while not enthusing even their own supporters.
    Well maybe, but I suspect most of the people it will horrify won't vote Labour anyway, and it throws a bit of Remainerism to smelly Remoaners like me.
    Exactly: he's throwing red meat to the base where it's needed, EU citizen Remainerism on this for the smelly Remoaners, private school class-war for the left-wing base, and then adds things like "we are the real conservatives" on top to attract the soft Tories.

    Everyone then has something to crow about why it's worth supporting SKS to their political fellow travellers.

    Very definitely being advised by Mandelson.
    If I'm reading the article right, this is spin from Conservatives or their supporters, not Labour. The Labour policy is to allow all permanent residents the vote, not specifically EU ones, although these might make up the majority of such voters. It is in the interest of the Conservatives to make a fuss about EU citizens getting the vote, hence the article in the Sunday Telegraph.
    I'm sure you're right. Soon, the Telegraph will be letting us know that Starmer has promised anybody who arrives in a small boat several votes each in all elections.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    FF43 said:

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    SNPgate is getter ever weirder.
    Sounds like someone forgot the difference between an organisation and a personal piggy bank
    I don't know if they are true or not but the allegations are certainly eye catching.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    I like Mae but we’re not allowed a vote so I’ve voted 3 times for Cyprus which was my fave of the night and thrown a vote each to Australia, Ukraine and France .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313
    edited May 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
    Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
    Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.
    Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PR
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744
    nico679 said:

    I like Mae but we’re not allowed a vote so I’ve voted 3 times for Cyprus which was my fave of the night and thrown a vote each to Australia, Ukraine and France .

    Early and often eh?

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,405
    Dialup said:

    Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!

    No, we heard it from Horse first, surely?
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    Horse said many months ago Mandelson was advising SKS, along with Blair. You heard it here first!

    No, we heard it from Horse first, surely?
    Yes you heard it from Horse first. I hope he will be allowed back.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,809
    kinabalu said:

    Well I'm not confident on my 8/1 UK top 10 coming in. She was a bit underwhelming.

    Italy and Israel were the standouts for me.

    Moldova or Finland for me.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    Who is that murdering "Imagine"?

    Edit: and "You spin me round". Awful

    The wonderful Netta. Toy in 2019 was utterly spectacular in every way https://youtu.be/84LBjXaeKk4
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,324

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    And that’s just in the Scottish government?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    ...

    Sorry to interrupt the Eurovision song contest but Police Scotland investating 1,000 alleged cases of fraud

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1657496055620009984?t=Xl1oBAPp29aXGWugOefsLQ&s=19

    It's OK, it's only the (Scottish) Mail, so probably bearing little relevance to reality.
    Why would you seek to play down something as potentially serious as this ?
    BigG. you always get very excited when your political foes appear to be in trouble, remember Currygate? And for example on the flipside you played down Partygate at its height.

    I accept the SNP are in trouble, but I suspect the Mail are gilding this particular lily. I don't believe Labour, or the Conservatives will benefit as much as we are told, from the SNP's travails.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    Dialup said:

    Keir Starmer has been rather underrated I feel. Since 2020 he has managed to move the party back to the centre, something which took over a decade previously.

    He has made the party in his own image, expelling Corbynites and Corbyn MPs left, right and centre.

    He has worked very slowly to build an image of boring competence and a very slow march of policies aimed at different parts of a "winning" coalition.

    I think he is good at politics. And the fact so many people don't is why he is currently 15 points ahead

    Yep. Very much so. But technical edit: the expulsions haven't been "left, right and centre". Just "left".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258

    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034

    I think he's engaging in anchoring.

    He wants Crimea back. The West (generally) would be happy with Russia being chased out of the Donbas with their tail between their legs.

    Zelensky is therefore proposing action inside Russia, so that when he says "fuck it, actually I'll just take Crimea back instead", the West says "phew... that sounds fine".
    No, I don't think it's that. It's a military/political strategy. Instead of a risky move to take Crimea back directly, they occupy territory across the border because it's militarily easier and then negotiate a swap.
    While you may, of course, be right, once Ukraine controls Maripol, there will no longer be a land bridge to Crimea. That will make it very hard for Russia to supply its forces there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    Two nights in a row Russia have hit large arms depots in Ukraine. I don't know why they suddenly know where these arms depots are after a year of throwing their missiles against less consequential targets, but it's a major problem for Ukraine.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,324
    CatMan said:

    This is a bit woah:

    "U.S. Intelligence Officials have stated that “Behind-Closed-Doors” Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky has proposed moving the Conflict in a Concerning Direction that would Involved the Occupation of Russian Border-Towns and Villages, Bombing an Oil Pipeline that Supplies the NATO Member Country Hungry, and even Long-Range Missile Strikes on Targets across the Russian Federation."

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1657490644506497034

    Sent defender is a Russian backed organisation

    But this looks like a long list of potential options ra try et than a specific plan
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,505
    Apologies if already posted but the Norway song is the backing tune to a coup by Penny Mordaunt. The singer even wore a similar outfit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dialup said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1657488045623443460

    Labour to give EU citizens the vote #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Good.

    Surely we are going to hear lots of complaints about trying to fix the electorate?

    Or may be this will be a reciprocal deal with the EU so that UK citizens in Europe get to vote too?
    Starmer knows he will shed votes in office so is planning now to expand his coalition.
    If he wants to stay PM for evah he is best going with PR.

    P S. He hasn't won yet.
    What makes you say that?

    I'd say it'd make it easier for him to lose office.
    Uncoalitionable Tories.
    You're not thinking straight.

    Remember: whatever happens 40% of the country are centre-right and there are very many more mechanisms that can tell under PR.

    Lib Dems and Greens won't be willing Labour lackies for long and, even if they are, in totality won't maintain 60% of the vote in aggregate either.
    Plus RefUK would win 10-15% of MPs under PR and be likely coalition partners for the Tories
    Yes but probably at the expense of the Tories.
    Not necessarily, in 2015 UKIP got 13%, as Labour got only 30% and the Tories 37% much of the UKIP vote came from Labour's traditional working class vote. They are the type of voters who voted UKIP in 2015, Labour or the Tories in 2017, for Boris and the Conservatives in 2019 and are now voting Labour again but could easily go to RefUK with PR
    I am aware of all of that, but there was something unique happening during the Brexit years. That is not to say that won't happen again, but I believe Conservatives will not be in Government for all but 24 of the next 71 (going on 73) years
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.

    Some ideas:
    4CorrectHorseBat
    CorrectHorseBat4
    CorrectHorseB4t
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,950
    Counting time!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,950
    UK 4 points from Ukraine!

    No nul points this year!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Solid start for UK. Sweden expected to romp it. In line with my internal polling.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Did it work? Good evening, glad to be back.

    Some ideas:
    4CorrectHorseBat
    CorrectHorseBat4
    CorrectHorseB4t
    I can assure you I am the CorrectHorseBattery
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Isn't Hannah Waddingham fabulous? I had never heard of her until a few weeks ago
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    There seems to be something of an appetite for a right wing party in the blue wall. There also seems to be an appetite for a right wing party in the red wall. Unfortunately for the Tories, those parties appear to be mutually exclusive to each other. PR creates an opening for both of those parties to exist without the conflict we saw play out ast week.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    Are these the jury and public votes combined?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    I think the UK is safe in not having to worry about hosting the contest again next year........
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Andy_JS said:

    Are these the jury and public votes combined?

    No. Just jury.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    Andy_JS said:

    Are these the jury and public votes combined?

    No, these are just jury votes. They do the public vote afterwards in one go.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Andy_JS said:

    Are these the jury and public votes combined?

    I think it's jury only. Public vote will be reported in aggregate at the end
This discussion has been closed.