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Ceremonies – politicalbetting.com

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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Have you forgotten those three hazy, crazy months in the summer of 2019 when she was Secretary of State for Defence?

    The only thing I can remember her doing was either lying or being woefully uninformed about when T31 would enter service. She was off by five years.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,706
    The helicopter 'flypast' is both underwhelming and also strangely British. We do drizzle so well.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Apocalypse Now vibes.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    I think that's a slightly odd take. So much of this is about luck and timing: if Smith had died in 1993 instead of 1994; or 1996, would Blair have still been elected Labour leader? How many brilliant potential PMs have not got near the job simply because there was no vacancy for the party leadership, let alone the PMship?

    In the case of Mordaunt and Stewart, the timing of the opportunity was such that their party required their leader to have criteria of reliability on a batshit issue, over good governance.

    Most politicians do not get a second chance; Johnson and Sunak being two obvious recent counter-examples where they did get a second chance.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    Dialup said:

    I love how you were prime minister for such a short time that even you feel the need to prove you have an invite

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1654838817059160184

    It's quite depressing that whenever I want to laugh at Liz Truss, I remember that for seven weeks she'd achieved a damn sight more than I ever will. What was the truth about the necklace btw?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    Leon said:

    The Carolean aesthetic is off to a good start.

    image

    Ooooooofff
    Has been Penny Queen of Wokery now been officially forgiven?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    RAFAT finally mustering a nine-ship for that flypast!
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    We've done Penny already.

    The country and sensible people said choose her.

    The Tories decided she was too woke and chose idiot Truss.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023
    @LostPassword

    “Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.”

    Not sure I agree with this.

    In reality, “leadership” is mostly about perception.

    Figuring out which way the wind is blowing before anyone else, then loudly directing the wind to blow in that particular direction.

    The most impressive leaders are the greatest charlatans.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Penny lost my respect when she changed her tune and lied about her past views. She should have stuck to her guns.

    I thought she was into swords?
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,386
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    So now we are reduced to Deborah Meaden and Anton du Beke opining on the day’s happenings

    If you so obviously loathe it and find it laughable - why the fucking fucketty fuck are you watching a single minute of coverage?!

    People like you are plastic republicans. You secretly love royalty, but you are too socially insecure to admit this because you associate monarchism with lower class people from Wolverhampton wearing Union Jack hats on the Mall
    I haven't watched a single second of it, but even I'd question what Meadon and du Beke bring to the table if I had.
    Look, I get the importance of today, and don't begrudge it. I'm not even a staunch republican, we're not set up well to be a republic and do we really want a President Blair/Cameron/Johnson/Mordaunt?
    We're good at this pageantry malarkey, and millions of the population love it.
    I just find the cap doffing and oath pledging, the royal titles and hangers on offensive. And the expense is grotesque.
    Keep the monarchy, but fire most of them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Have you forgotten those three hazy, crazy months in the summer of 2019 when she was Secretary of State for Defence?

    The only thing I can remember her doing was either lying or being woefully uninformed about when T31 would enter service. She was off by five years.
    I vaguely recall her doing something in, or just above, a swimming pool? But that was before MoD.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    How did the public swearing of the oath go? (This was going to bring about the end of the monarchy a few days ago.)

    I affirmed my allegiance by testily muttering "Bloody pen!" and throwing my Mont Blanc through the window.
    EVERY STINKING TIME!
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    And that's the point. You vote on culture issues and you get idiot candidates.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    edited May 2023

    DavidL said:

    Lordy, could you be more careful: "potentially" running an "avoidance" scheme. Is running avoidance schemes not what accountants do and isn't it perfectly legal?

    Thin gruel for those of us who have so far been enjoying this luxurious feast put on by the SNP for general amusement. Must do better.
    Dan Neidle’s version pulls fewer punches: https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/05/06/schoolfees/
    It’s also totally unnecessary.

    Much simpler:

    - issue non voting B shares to the children
    - Differential dividend rights that can be declared by the board
    - Live 7 years to take those shares out of the estate for inheritance tax purposes

    The tax saving basically arises from moving from a 39% tax rate to using the personal allowance and dividend allowance for the kids (about £14k) and then paying a lower rate of tax on the balance

    That is likely to fall foul of Chapter 5 Part 5 ITTOIA 2005 (settlements regime).
    I am by no means a tax person, but I was meaning transfer of real economic ownership in the company (just non-voting shares and the right to a different dividend). But same rights on winding up.

    Edit: to be clear not meaning a trust structure. A direct stake being handed to the kids instead. So fully subject to inheritance tax, income tax, etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    ohnotnow said:

    The helicopter 'flypast' is both underwhelming and also strangely British. We do drizzle so well.

    Were they on a rotor?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    TOPPING said:

    The king seems to be wearing a jacket taken from the wine waiter at Toni's Local Trattoria in Barking.

    He would have been more comfortable in a British design similar to this.

    https://gearhumans.com/products/3d-gh-napoleon-13

  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,123
    edited May 2023

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    ydoethur said:

    ohnotnow said:

    The helicopter 'flypast' is both underwhelming and also strangely British. We do drizzle so well.

    Were they on a rotor?
    The flypast was choppered short.
  • Foxy said:

    Dialup said:

    I love how you were prime minister for such a short time that even you feel the need to prove you have an invite

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1654838817059160184

    It's quite depressing that whenever I want to laugh at Liz Truss, I remember that for seven weeks she'd achieved a damn sight more than I ever will. What was the truth about the necklace btw?
    Best thing Truss managed was to cure the world of "Imposter Syndrome". No one need ever feel out of their depth ever again.
    I genuinely loathe Truss. She cost me about 30 grand as she fecked the housing market a week after we put our house on the market. Had to scale back my plans on a new mountain bike and an upgrade on the van. Never forgive her for that!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    For anyone that wants the TINGLEZ again. ZADOK the Priest

    Sadly it has Huw Edwards waffling over the initial bars but still


    https://twitter.com/markhiggie1/status/1654821230468276226?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma

    Indeed. A large part of modern politics is showmanship, and as I've also mentioned many, many times, there's few politicians who can both do that, and also project empathy, if and wherever necessary.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited May 2023
    In perhaps the least interesting observation of the day I just noticed that Camilla's pageboys are wearing mini Grenadier Guards uniforms. Quite recently Camilla was made Colonel of the Grenadier Guards.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,983
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    So now we are reduced to Deborah Meaden and Anton du Beke opining on the day’s happenings

    If you so obviously loathe it and find it laughable - why the fucking fucketty fuck are you watching a single minute of coverage?!

    People like you are plastic republicans. You secretly love royalty, but you are too socially insecure to admit this because you associate monarchism with lower class people from Wolverhampton wearing Union Jack hats on the Mall
    This is spot on.

    It's all for show.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    ping said:

    @LostPassword

    “Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.”

    Not sure I agree with this.

    In reality, “leadership” is mostly about perception.

    Figuring out which way the wind is blowing before anyone else, then loudly directing the wind to blow in that particular direction.

    The most impressive leaders are the greatest charlatans.

    I remember a great cartoon about Tony Blair with the legend “I am their leader; I must follow them”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,474

    Leon said:

    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma

    Indeed. A large part of modern politics is showmanship, and as I've also mentioned many, many times, there's few politicians who can both do that, and also project empathy if and wherever necessary.
    She was very poor in the Con leadership debates. I thought her the best of a bad lot, but she really wasn't up to much.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412

    Foxy said:

    Dialup said:

    I love how you were prime minister for such a short time that even you feel the need to prove you have an invite

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1654838817059160184

    It's quite depressing that whenever I want to laugh at Liz Truss, I remember that for seven weeks she'd achieved a damn sight more than I ever will. What was the truth about the necklace btw?
    Best thing Truss managed was to cure the world of "Imposter Syndrome". No one need ever feel out of their depth ever again.
    I genuinely loathe Truss. She cost me about 30 grand as she fecked the housing market a week after we put our house on the market. Had to scale back my plans on a new mountain bike and an upgrade on the van. Never forgive her for that!
    Could have been worse, she could have pinched your bathrobes as well.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Chris said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    Dialup said:

    The Met Police.

    Being attacked in the streets? Bike nicked? Can't help mate.

    Placard - to the Tower with you

    I am a monarchist but preventing lawful protests by Republicans is wrong on so many levels. Stupid action by Government enacting the laws and stupid action by the police in enforcing them this way.
    I don't see the PB Wokefinders for Freedom lamenting this. Just wait for the anti-woke protests under a Labour government. Labour have been given absolute carte blanche to deal with them in the same way.
    New Labour had people arrested for holding up, in silence, a placard saying “Remember Tibet” ...
    Yes, of course that makes it OK. How could anyone have doubted it?
    You're missing the point.
    By all means tell me what point you were trying to make.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,633
    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
    Normally with this sort of thing you only get two chances max.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,983
    Penny Mordaunt looks and acts the part, and can do empathy just like Jacinda, but that is where her capabilities begin and end. There is no depth or thought to the lady.

    Her pro-Woke views are probably similarly shallow but she could also turn up to be obstinately pig-headed about them rather than think it through and that sort of intellectual limitation rules her out, I'm afraid.

    We need someone who knows how, where and why to put up resistance.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma

    Indeed. A large part of modern politics is showmanship, and as I've also mentioned many, many times, there's few politicians who can both do that, and also project empathy if and wherever necessary.
    She was very poor in the Con leadership debates. I thought her the best of a bad lot, but she really wasn't up to much.
    Good in the first and OK in the last ones, as I remember, but yes, Sunak was better.

    Don't forget, though, that debating skills are not the necessarily the measure of success of a politician. Bozo was pretty bad on his feet, for instance, and as well as being able to show empathy, she also has the benefit of a slightly mysterious type of charisma to keep a distance when needed, which the eggs-and-bacon stand-up, whatever other gifts he may have in language and imagination, definitely doesn't.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    edited May 2023
    Professor Michael Thrasher's HoC seats forecast based on the local elections.

    Lab 298
    Con 238
    LD 39
    Others 75

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    ping said:

    @LostPassword

    “Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.”

    Not sure I agree with this.

    In reality, “leadership” is mostly about perception.

    Figuring out which way the wind is blowing before anyone else, then loudly directing the wind to blow in that particular direction.

    The most impressive leaders are the greatest charlatans.

    I remember a great cartoon about Tony Blair with the legend “I am their leader; I must follow them”
    Originally, ascribed to Alexandre Ledru-Rollin.

    Je suis leur chef, il fallait bien les suivre.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Charles trying to work out if she underlined or crossed out his name.

    https://twitter.com/beardedgenius/status/1654815223130341377?s=46
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,280
    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
    Harold Wilson I think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma

    Indeed. A large part of modern politics is showmanship, and as I've also mentioned many, many times, there's few politicians who can both do that, and also project empathy if and wherever necessary.
    She was very poor in the Con leadership debates. I thought her the best of a bad lot, but she really wasn't up to much.
    Good in the first and OK in the last ones, as I remember, but yes, Sunak was better.

    Don't forget, though, that debating skills are not the necessarily the measure of success of a politician. Bozo was pretty bad on his feet, for instance, and she has the added benefit of a slightly mysterious type of charisma to keep a distance when needed, which the eggs-and-bacon stand-up, whatever other gifts he may have in language and imagination, definitely doesn't.
    However wasn’t it later revealed that was facing private family night mares through those debates, hence her oddly lacklustre performances?

    Let’s face it, the Tories are gonna need someone non-posh with a bit of star quality. They are not overburdened with candidates

    She also has a good sense of humour and is capable of making Starmer look like the stiff old twat that he is
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    edited May 2023

    IanB2 said:

    So now we are reduced to Deborah Meaden and Anton du Beke opining on the day’s happenings

    The BBC always do this. I don’t know why they always think we need the opinions of minor celebrities.
    Lord Reith fans, please explain.

    Incidentally, I prefer to watch big national events on ITV/STV. They have a tendency to surprise on the upside.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    @Leon makes brilliant posts, doesn't he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
    Harold Wilson I think.
    Disraeli was overlooked twice, first for Bentinck and then for Granby.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    @LostPassword

    “Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.”

    Not sure I agree with this.

    In reality, “leadership” is mostly about perception.

    Figuring out which way the wind is blowing before anyone else, then loudly directing the wind to blow in that particular direction.

    The most impressive leaders are the greatest charlatans.

    I remember a great cartoon about Tony Blair with the legend “I am their leader; I must follow them”
    Originally, ascribed to Alexandre Ledru-Rollin.

    Je suis leur chef, il fallait bien les suivre.
    Absolutely - this was a cartoon with a rocky road up to a shining city on a hill. I forget what it was signposted - something like “fiscal prudence” - and a large crowd going along the broad grassy path marked “uncontrolled spending” with Tony Blair scurrying along behind them

    So lots of mixed metaphors but made its point well.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,123
    edited May 2023

    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
    Harold Wilson I think.
    I don't think so. He stood against Gaitskell, but only once (the other election in that period was a challenge by Tony Greenwood). Then he won the leadership election following Gaitskell's death. So only twice I think.

    Callaghan and Foot were also both second-time-lucky.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Professor Michael Thrasher's HoC seats forecast based on the local elections.

    Lab 298
    Con 238
    LD 39
    Others 75

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917

    Independents and residents' associations don't tend to stand in Westminster elections.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,280

    Dura_Ace said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, I think I've found the answer to the question I posed a few days ago. Tories on here don't seem to like the current Conservative party very much, and certainly not that keen on the current leadership, so I asked: Who do you want?

    Clearly, she's been found. Mordaunt.

    The moment she says JK Rowling may have a point over trans issues, you’ll know Mordaunt is on it like a car bonnet.
    If Penny hadn’t got caught up with Stonewall, she could have been PM for the past eight months.
    If the Tory membership ditched their best candidate over this issue perhaps that says more about them than anything else: obsessed with culture war issues at the expense of real world problems does absolutely sum up the current state of the Conservatives tbh.
    Leadership in politics is about persuading people and winning their support.

    Penny Mordaunt's failure to win an election within her own party doesn't scream excellence in political leadership to me, particularly when the other leading candidates were Liz Truss and a teetotaler who comes across as an overeager teenager. Same argument as Rory Stewart.
    Actually, her failure to win TWO leadership elections - she put her name forward again when the other two candidates were Sunny Delight boy, and a discredited, congenital liar.
    Has anyone ever won a party leadership at the third attempt?
    Harold Wilson I think.
    I don't think so. He stood against Gaitskell, but only once (the other election in that period was a challenge by Tony Greenwood). Then he won the leadership election following Gaitskell's death. So only twice I think.
    You're right. I thought Wilson challenged Gaitskell twice, but it was Greenwood who challenged the second time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Local perspective on the evisceration of the Greens in Brighton:

    https://twitter.com/hanoverhussy/status/1654535217691127809
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I seriously think Mordaunt has been such a star today she has put herself in a prime position to take over from Rishi

    Right now it’s her versus Kemi B

    Illogical but there it is. She has charisma

    Indeed. A large part of modern politics is showmanship, and as I've also mentioned many, many times, there's few politicians who can both do that, and also project empathy if and wherever necessary.
    She was very poor in the Con leadership debates. I thought her the best of a bad lot, but she really wasn't up to much.
    Good in the first and OK in the last ones, as I remember, but yes, Sunak was better.

    Don't forget, though, that debating skills are not the necessarily the measure of success of a politician. Bozo was pretty bad on his feet, for instance, and she has the added benefit of a slightly mysterious type of charisma to keep a distance when needed, which the eggs-and-bacon stand-up, whatever other gifts he may have in language and imagination, definitely doesn't.
    However wasn’t it later revealed that was facing private family night mares through those debates, hence her oddly lacklustre performances?

    Let’s face it, the Tories are gonna need someone non-posh with a bit of star quality. They are not overburdened with candidates

    She also has a good sense of humour and is capable of making Starmer look like the stiff old twat that he is
    She also has the same view of gender identity as Nicola Sturgeon, and tried to bring a very similar Bill to that which cost the Scottish leader her job, to the UK Parliament.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,467
    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    David Olusoga.

    Very good.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Is it all over now?

    This road in Ilford North actually exists :)

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    David Olusoga.

    Very good.
    Er, what?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,633

    Andy_JS said:

    Professor Michael Thrasher's HoC seats forecast based on the local elections.

    Lab 298
    Con 238
    LD 39
    Others 75

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917

    Independents and residents' associations don't tend to stand in Westminster elections.
    Most of the 75 will be SNP where the election results - even factoring the good LAB vote - will have made little difference and also NI where there would be no impact.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Penny Mordaunt looks and acts the part, and can do empathy just like Jacinda, but that is where her capabilities begin and end. There is no depth or thought to the lady.

    Her pro-Woke views are probably similarly shallow but she could also turn up to be obstinately pig-headed about them rather than think it through and that sort of intellectual limitation rules her out, I'm afraid.

    We need someone who knows how, where and why to put up resistance.

    I share some of your reservations but she was very good as leader of the House in some pretty tricky spots for the government. I don't think she is the brightest but she has a clear sense of narrative and a good turn of phrase. I think she will make a good LOTO during the first term of the Labour government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Dialup said:

    @Leon makes brilliant posts, doesn't he?

    Thankyou. Finally I am acknowledged
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,765
    edited May 2023
    I would rather Penny had won the leadership contest the first time out, but to be completely honest as much as she absolutely nailed it today, carrying a sword around an abbey does not a party leader make.

    Fundamentally she still faces the same issues as cost her the job last time around - there seem to be elements in the party who really don’t like her and distrust her.

    After a GE defeat the party will elect someone who makes them feel good about themselves. That will be Braverman doing her hanging and flogging act or Badenoch and her culture war. I’m not sure Penny will get a look in.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,474

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,806
    Leon said:

    Dialup said:

    @Leon makes brilliant posts, doesn't he?

    Thankyou. Finally I am acknowledged
    You never get positive feedback from the Gazette? You should really find a new job.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    I don't know why bloody Nicholas Witchell has to keep mentioning bloody Harry. He sounds obsessed with the man.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    David Olusoga. Have you not watched A House Through Time? He's one of the best people on TV. Went to school with Gazza.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    Leon said:

    For anyone that wants the TINGLEZ again. ZADOK the Priest

    Sadly it has Huw Edwards waffling over the initial bars but still


    https://twitter.com/markhiggie1/status/1654821230468276226?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Clare Balding said something about a commentary-free version on iplayer or somewhere. Maybe someone who knows how to clip videos for Twitter can do the needful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Penny Mordaunt has had her dress and hat for the coronation custom embroidered with gold ferns -- a nod to the Privy Councillor's uniform.

    The colour, by designer Safiyaa, is "Poseidon", a reference to her Portsmouth constituency.


    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1654783523012636676?s=20
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Andy_JS said:

    Professor Michael Thrasher's HoC seats forecast based on the local elections.

    Lab 298
    Con 238
    LD 39
    Others 75

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917

    Independents and residents' associations don't tend to stand in Westminster elections.
    Most of the 75 will be SNP where the election results - even factoring the good LAB vote - will have made little difference and also NI where there would be no impact.
    No, I meant in England! People will vote for the three main parties.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Professor Michael Thrasher's HoC seats forecast based on the local elections.

    Lab 298
    Con 238
    LD 39
    Others 75

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-elections-labour-would-fall-28-short-of-overall-majority-in-general-election-sky-news-vote-share-projection-shows-12873917

    Independents and residents' associations don't tend to stand in Westminster elections.
    Yes, although you can see Ashfield Independents potentially being the ones to unseat Lee Anderson.

    I believe the lady who stands in East Devon and has come pretty close a couple of times, Claire Wright, has said she's not going for one last heave (rather surprisingly as she's relatively young and it's probably her best chance against the Tories - albeit boundary changes carve up the seat rather).
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    DavidL said:

    Penny Mordaunt looks and acts the part, and can do empathy just like Jacinda, but that is where her capabilities begin and end. There is no depth or thought to the lady.

    Her pro-Woke views are probably similarly shallow but she could also turn up to be obstinately pig-headed about them rather than think it through and that sort of intellectual limitation rules her out, I'm afraid.

    We need someone who knows how, where and why to put up resistance.

    I share some of your reservations but she was very good as leader of the House in some pretty tricky spots for the government. I don't think she is the brightest but she has a clear sense of narrative and a good turn of phrase. I think she will make a good LOTO during the first term of the Labour government.
    I would say if you have mystique, you can use that in tricky situations, even if others are quicker on their feet. I can't think of any other modern politicians with some sort of mystique. is there anyone ? Possibly Rory Stewart.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    David Olusoga.

    Very good.
    Er, what?
    The BBC commentator. David Olusoga. He was very good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Leon said:

    For anyone that wants the TINGLEZ again. ZADOK the Priest

    Sadly it has Huw Edwards waffling over the initial bars but still


    https://twitter.com/markhiggie1/status/1654821230468276226?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Clare Balding said something about a commentary-free version on iplayer or somewhere. Maybe someone who knows how to clip videos for Twitter can do the needful.
    I’ve been watching the official royal family youtube channel.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=O8OslFp1B6g
    No commentary.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    I don't know why bloody Nicholas Witchell has to keep mentioning bloody Harry. He sounds obsessed with the man.

    Balding gingers in it together.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    David Olusoga. Have you not watched A House Through Time? He's one of the best people on TV. Went to school with Gazza.
    Will look him out. All worth listening to if that's anything to go by. Thx.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    David Olusoga.

    Very good.
    Er, what?
    The BBC commentator. David Olusoga. He was very good.
    I reckon our very own @viewcode’s essay up top is the most eloquent dissection of the Coronation that I have seen
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    OK, so I managed to see most of the helicopters and the Red Arrows from my bedroom window in Ilford, but at a distance! Had to zoom in with my camera! FWIW:

    2 Apaches and a Lynx


    3 Chinooks and a Eurocopter(?)


    Red Arrows

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,467
    Foxy said:

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
    It’s illegal to show games at 3pm on a Saturday normally though
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Duke of Sussex did not join his family back at Buckingham Palace, meaning that he will not feature in any of the official portraits

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/05/06/prince-harry-returns-us-after-king-charles-coronation/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Foxy said:

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
    It’s illegal to show games at 3pm on a Saturday normally though
    Sorry which football and channel is this?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    The Duke of Sussex did not join his family back at Buckingham Palace, meaning that he will not feature in any of the official portraits

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/05/06/prince-harry-returns-us-after-king-charles-coronation/

    He’ll have left as quickly as possible, going straight to Heathrow.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    Foxy said:

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
    It’s illegal to show games at 3pm on a Saturday normally though
    Don't think there is any professional football clashing apart from Prem and Prem reserves so no one objected.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Foxy said:

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
    It’s illegal to show games at 3pm on a Saturday normally though
    It’s not illegal. What there is is Article 48:

    https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-uefa/administration/marketing/blocked-broadcasting-hours/

    There’s no lower league football in England today, so it’s not an issue for them. The only question was, would Scotland object? Given Sky are their broadcast partners, they weren’t going to object.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    OK, so I managed to see most of the helicopters and the Red Arrows from my bedroom window in Ilford, but at a distance! Had to zoom in with my camera! FWIW:

    2 Apaches and a Lynx


    3 Chinooks and a Eurocopter(?)


    Red Arrows

    Puma with the Chinooks, I think.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,765
    The ceremony really was something rather special. I’m glad I decided to watch it.

    I can take or leave the procession/balcony stuff, it doesn’t have the same mystique and power as a 1500 year old book, or a service the core elements of which haven’t changed for 1000 years, or Zadok.

    I understand a little more now why the former Queen was reportedly so devoutly wedded to her duty and her coronation oath. It is a very powerful service/ceremony and I can imagine it having a very strong impact on the person at the centre of it.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,420
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    Will make me ever more proud if my generation are the ones to abolish this archaic nonsense.

    Bring on President Mordaunt
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Carnyx said:

    OK, so I managed to see most of the helicopters and the Red Arrows from my bedroom window in Ilford, but at a distance! Had to zoom in with my camera! FWIW:

    2 Apaches and a Lynx


    3 Chinooks and a Eurocopter(?)


    Red Arrows

    Puma with the Chinooks, I think.
    Yes, I think you're right!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    This is also because various Trumpians have started using it more, though, quite comically,
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    DavidL said:

    Penny Mordaunt looks and acts the part, and can do empathy just like Jacinda, but that is where her capabilities begin and end. There is no depth or thought to the lady.

    Her pro-Woke views are probably similarly shallow but she could also turn up to be obstinately pig-headed about them rather than think it through and that sort of intellectual limitation rules her out, I'm afraid.

    We need someone who knows how, where and why to put up resistance.

    I share some of your reservations but she was very good as leader of the House in some pretty tricky spots for the government. I don't think she is the brightest but she has a clear sense of narrative and a good turn of phrase. I think she will make a good LOTO during the first term of the Labour government.
    I would say if you have mystique, you can use that in tricky situations, even if others are quicker on their feet. I can't think of any other modern politicians with some sort of mystique. is there anyone ? Possibly Rory Stewart.
    Tricky one to pin down, but here’s a selection of some politicians I think have some mystique in the sense of seeming somewhat otherworldly

    - John Redwood (alas)
    - Caroline Lucas
    - Wera Hobhouse
    - Rishi Sunak, actually
    - Thangam Debbonaire
    - Emily Thornberry
    - Mark Drakeford
    - Jeremy Hunt
    - Rory


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    David Olusoga. Have you not watched A House Through Time? He's one of the best people on TV. Went to school with Gazza.
    And Gazza stood up for him against racist twats. Forgave him Gordon Brown’s favourite goal when I heard that.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    Penny Mordaunt looks and acts the part, and can do empathy just like Jacinda, but that is where her capabilities begin and end. There is no depth or thought to the lady.

    Her pro-Woke views are probably similarly shallow but she could also turn up to be obstinately pig-headed about them rather than think it through and that sort of intellectual limitation rules her out, I'm afraid.

    We need someone who knows how, where and why to put up resistance.

    I share some of your reservations but she was very good as leader of the House in some pretty tricky spots for the government. I don't think she is the brightest but she has a clear sense of narrative and a good turn of phrase. I think she will make a good LOTO during the first term of the Labour government.
    I would say if you have mystique, you can use that in tricky situations, even if others are quicker on their feet. I can't think of any other modern politicians with some sort of mystique. is there anyone ? Possibly Rory Stewart.
    Tricky one to pin down, but here’s a selection of some politicians I think have some mystique in the sense of seeming somewhat otherworldly

    - John Redwood (alas)
    - Caroline Lucas
    - Wera Hobhouse
    - Rishi Sunak, actually
    - Thangam Debbonaire
    - Emily Thornberry
    - Mark Drakeford
    - Jeremy Hunt
    - Rory


    Agree on Emily Thornberry and Rory. Possibly also Lisa Nandy, even Angela Rayner and also Michele Donelan. It does tend to have a connection to attractiveness to the opposite sex, I think.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    To be fair it is their history too and forged a lot of their attitudes and institutions, common law for example and their sherrifs etc but they just have the hump that they got President Trump.

    A lot of the comments on the NYT live-blog were corkers though with readers slagging off the Brits for colonising and taking objects without the self-awareness once to see what they did to Native Americans. Didn’t notice any demands there to hand back the land they stole.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    The King's horse Saga just failed to win at Newmarket, ironically beaten by King of Conquest.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    David Olusoga. Have you not watched A House Through Time? He's one of the best people on TV. Went to school with Gazza.
    Will look him out. All worth listening to if that's anything to go by. Thx.
    Yes, he really is. A House Through Time is genius TV. Each series focuses on a single house (usually Georgian) and goes through the lives of all of its inhabitants, along the way shedding light on historical events and social change while also uncovering quite moving individual stories. A bit like Who Do You Think You Are but more highbrow and interesting. Olusoga is a very engaging host with interesting things to say and a kind of open and empathetic approach that really brings the best out of the material. It's a good one to watch with kids too, educational without being boring.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    David Olusoga. Have you not watched A House Through Time? He's one of the best people on TV. Went to school with Gazza.
    And Gazza stood up for him against racist twats. Forgave him Gordon Brown’s favourite goal when I heard that.
    Yeah he said Gazza was the only rough kid at the school who wasn't a racist.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 686
    Meanwhile in Cardiff - 100s attend 'not my king' march while only around 20 attend 'official coronation screening' in Cardiff Castle. And special postbox has been redecorated.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    To be fair it is their history too and forged a lot of their attitudes and institutions, common law for example and their sherrifs etc but they just have the hump that they got President Trump.

    A lot of the comments on the NYT live-blog were corkers though with readers slagging off the Brits for colonising and taking objects without the self-awareness once to see what they did to Native Americans. Didn’t notice any demands there to hand back the land they stole.
    One of the main reasons the American colonists broke the link with us was because the British authorities were preventing them from expanding more aggressively into Native American lands, IIRC. There's plenty of blame and shame to go around (or pride I suppose if colonialism is your bag).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    Have they? I thought the problem with Anglo-Saxon was that it was pretty localised to dear old blighty, and it is the term "dark ages" that has historians clutching their pearls and reaching for neologisms like "early mediaeval".
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    I expected no less of you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Foxy said:

    No idea why there’s football on the telly at 3pm on a Saturday but it’s great! Anyone know why this is??

    It was scheduled for tomorrow, but brought forward because of the CL SF with Real Madrid.
    It’s illegal to show games at 3pm on a Saturday normally though
    It's Escape to Victory, the movie :lol:
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited May 2023

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very sensible bloke on BBC giving a social commentary on it all. Not sure who it is.

    "Difficult to incorporate or acknowledge the changes in modern Britain in a thousand year old ceremony."

    Over a 1000 years actually. Edgar in 975AD established the template. I love this fact
    There's a rather more detailed account of how the coronation ceremony has changed over the centuries here:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-not-so-brief-history-of-british-coronations-180982088/

    Actually the only element of the ceremony it mentions in connection with the coronation of Edgar is the anointing. And as we all know that is much older - "Zadok the priest [etc]".
    An article tainted with Woke bullshit

    “During the early medieval period (also known anachronistically as the Anglo-Saxon era),”

    American historians have decided “Anglo-Saxon” is white supremacist. They can fuck off. It’s our history, not theirs
    Have they? I thought the problem with Anglo-Saxon was that it was pretty localised to dear old blighty, and it is the term "dark ages" that has historians clutching their pearls and reaching for neologisms like "early mediaeval".
    There's two issues.

    There is an issue in the U.S., where various troglodyte Trumpians have started using phrases like "proud Anglo-Saxon", even if they're more commonly actually something else, and parts of the American left have thus now decided that this can now always only represent anything awful, in the usual and current symbiosis of extremism, and polarisation from right to left, of modern America.
This discussion has been closed.