So what will now happen in Scotland at the general election? – politicalbetting.com

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

LostPassword said:

NerysHughes said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening.

I do also wonder if there is a future in which the most common model is owning small EVs for the 90% of our journeys which are local and renting large ICEs or other type for longer journeys. My understanding is that EVs are much more cost effective as small, relatively low range vehicles, and I wonder whether by trying to make EVs do what ICEs do we are solving the wrong problem.

As a personal example, in my family we have two cars: a 14 year old Ford Focus and a rather newer MPV. We initially bought an MPV because we had three children under 5, and needed something which could fit three car seats in - but we're through that stage now. Now the reason for having an MPV is that a few times a year, all five of us plus luggage will go on a journey of more than 200 miles. I think many people are the same - we have the car we need for the extreme example of the journeys we make, rather than the typical example.
90% of the time, though, there is at least one car parked outside our house. And weeks, months can go by without ever going much more than 50 miles from home.
It feels like a much more resource-efficient solution would be to own a small EV, and on the rare occasion we needed two cars at once, or that we needed a bigger car, rent one.

An EV works well as a second car, for most people who have a private driveway and a regular job. It does the daily commute, runs errands around town, and goes on charge every night. That covers 90% of journeys.

I can definitely see the last of the MPV and SUV petrol cars being snapped up by rental companies, they’re going to hold up in value and everyone’s going to want one at Christmas.

The worry for those buying an EV today, is that the technology moves so quickly that a five-year-old car is as popular as a five-year-old phone. When the new one does 500 miles and charges in 5 minutes, who will want an old one? What if the charging standard changes to enable faster speeds, and you’re stuck with the old one? I’d always lease an EV rather than buy it, which gives some random bank the risk of prices imploding. There are EV taxis that have done huge mileages (500,000+), but the concern is that the battery has a life measured mostly in time rather than usage.

There’s also concerns around the connectivity of EVs in particular, especially with Tesla who own the chargers. There’s stories from the US, of cars repaired outside the dealer network being banned from the charging network for “safety” reasons. Even if you own the car, do you really actually *own* the car?

Man living in petrostate not a fan of EVs.

Just playing the devil’s advocate. There’s actually a few EVs out here, but electricity is expensive and petrol is cheap.

At least there’s the infrastructure though, which isn’t the case in large parts of the world outside the West. There’s not going to be a huge rise in EV use in large parts of Asia or Africa any time soon.

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

In 3 years of EV ownership, I have only had to use a public charger twice, and neither time did I have to wait. It is not often that I drive more than 280 miles in a day, and charging overnight on cheap electricity is better.

Indeed, because you have a driveway and a regular job, it’s a good fit. The concerns are around the edge cases, especially poorer people living in apartment blocks, who will have to pay a lot more to charge their car on the public network, then you would on cheap overnight home power.

60% of motorists have access to a driveway, so that will be the norm for most people.

There clearly needs to be investment in the charging network for everyone else. Cheap solar panels will be the answer for Asia and Africa. There are big solar developments in lots of countries there.

60% does seem rather high

Worth remembering that about one-third of households don't have a car at all. So that's 60% of two-thirds, or about 40% of all households.

Sounds a lot more reasonable a figure.

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

MarqueeMark said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burgessian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

StillWaters said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.

200 T-55 vs 14 Challenger 2s… I wouldn’t bet against the T-55s

I refer you to the Battle of Norfolk.

Not quite the same tank versions but earlier iterations.

From wiki. Quite something.

"A British Challenger 1 tank during the 1st Gulf War. The British Challenger tank was the most efficient tank of the Gulf war suffering no losses while destroying approximately 300 Iraqi tanks during combat operations."

The Challengers will have four major advantages over the older Russian tanks

i) Longer firing range

ii) Much better armour

iii) GPS

iv) Night vision

In the original Gulf War a single battalion of Abrams, which are comparable to Challengers, destroyed an entire Iraqi division.

Also, like then, the Ukranians will have much better live time intelligence info.

It doesn't really make any sense to do a direct comparison as there has been very little hardcore tank-on-tank action in the SMO; that is not how it's being fought.

Also, you'll be very lucky to see a Russian tank as the 100% truth telling Ukrainians now claim to have destroyed every tank in the Russian army.

Like the seventy odd HIMARs systems Russia claims to have taken out ?
(Actual score, zero.)

One reason for the older tanks might be that some of them are just in a better state fo repair.
Captured Russian T-62 with the name Leopard 2 in service with Ukraine. P.S: The tank is almost new, the mileage is only 440 km.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1640744321103060998

The T80s and newer T72s are reported to be pretty high mileage in general.

As Dura Ace must know, the numbers quoted refer to the number of tanks initially committed to the "SMO"/invasion of Ukraine, as supplemented after it went so swimmingly to start with.

Which is why they are having to rob their museums and tank graveyards.

Emerald said:

Julia Hartley Brewer starting to go full on antivax on talkradio this morning. She says we have been big pharma guinea pigs. Interesting.

Leon said:

AI is getting so powerful this is now a thing:


“Elon Musk and over 1,100 tech experts have signed an open letter to stop AI training beyond GPT-4.

AI is getting too powerful too quickly, and they want at least a 6-month pause on AI training 😬”

https://twitter.com/garymarcus/status/1640884040835428357?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

I don’t believe it will work. Whoever gets the best AGI first will become enormously powerful and enormously rich. When have humans ever resisted that?

Plus, the Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Japanese, Russians etc will be working on their own versions, they won’t stop because the military capabilities of AGI will be monumental, and if you’re enemy has them and you don’t you’re screwed

LostPassword said:

Cookie said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening.

I do also wonder if there is a future in which the most common model is owning small EVs for the 90% of our journeys which are local and renting large ICEs or other type for longer journeys. My understanding is that EVs are much more cost effective as small, relatively low range vehicles, and I wonder whether by trying to make EVs do what ICEs do we are solving the wrong problem.

As a personal example, in my family we have two cars: a 14 year old Ford Focus and a rather newer MPV. We initially bought an MPV because we had three children under 5, and needed something which could fit three car seats in - but we're through that stage now. Now the reason for having an MPV is that a few times a year, all five of us plus luggage will go on a journey of more than 200 miles. I think many people are the same - we have the car we need for the extreme example of the journeys we make, rather than the typical example.
90% of the time, though, there is at least one car parked outside our house. And weeks, months can go by without ever going much more than 50 miles from home.
It feels like a much more resource-efficient solution would be to own a small EV, and on the rare occasion we needed two cars at once, or that we needed a bigger car, rent one.

An EV works well as a second car, for most people who have a private driveway and a regular job. It does the daily commute, runs errands around town, and goes on charge every night. That covers 90% of journeys.

I can definitely see the last of the MPV and SUV petrol cars being snapped up by rental companies, they’re going to hold up in value and everyone’s going to want one at Christmas.

The worry for those buying an EV today, is that the technology moves so quickly that a five-year-old car is as popular as a five-year-old phone. When the new one does 500 miles and charges in 5 minutes, who will want an old one? What if the charging standard changes to enable faster speeds, and you’re stuck with the old one? I’d always lease an EV rather than buy it, which gives some random bank the risk of prices imploding. There are EV taxis that have done huge mileages (500,000+), but the concern is that the battery has a life measured mostly in time rather than usage.

There’s also concerns around the connectivity of EVs in particular, especially with Tesla who own the chargers. There’s stories from the US, of cars repaired outside the dealer network being banned from the charging network for “safety” reasons. Even if you own the car, do you really actually *own* the car?

Man living in petrostate not a fan of EVs.

Just playing the devil’s advocate. There’s actually a few EVs out here, but electricity is expensive and petrol is cheap.

At least there’s the infrastructure though, which isn’t the case in large parts of the world outside the West. There’s not going to be a huge rise in EV use in large parts of Asia or Africa any time soon.

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

In 3 years of EV ownership, I have only had to use a public charger twice, and neither time did I have to wait. It is not often that I drive more than 280 miles in a day, and charging overnight on cheap electricity is better.

Indeed, because you have a driveway and a regular job, it’s a good fit. The concerns are around the edge cases, especially poorer people living in apartment blocks, who will have to pay a lot more to charge their car on the public network, then you would on cheap overnight home power.

Not just tower blocks. Any home without off-street parking is screwed as you cannot safely run power cables across the pavement.

I've always wondered whether the way electric vehicles are charged is suboptimal. I wonder whether there is a solution whereby you could charge a battery in your house and then take it out and put it into your car and charge battery to battery? This might also make for a better model for roadside charging - drop off a low charge battery and swap it for a high charge battery.
I'm aware this is a half-thought through solution with lots of impracticalities (like batteries with sufficient charge being bloody heavy) - but I'd argue that we've arrived at the current solution for EV charging a little arbitrarily. It feels like a better solution ought to exist.

The battery in a Tesla model Y apparently weighs 2 tonnes!

Another big problem for battery-swapping is that you'd hardly want to swap out your new battery for a battery that's been through 1,000 charge and discharge cycles.

Flatlander said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

For a while the horse drawn carriage was probably still better but eventually became obsolete.

The government of the time didn't put an arbitrary deadline on it though.

When the car was better and cheaper, people started using them.

When electric is better and cheaper (it is already better for some uses, although not cheaper) then everyone will be keen to swap.

I'm not convinced that will be by 2030 though.

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

Cookie said:

Westie said:

Cookie said:

Dura_Ace said:

Cookie said:

I love the dashboard of my 2009 Ford Focus. It is just about perfection.

Reading these two sentences gave my eyes AIDS and caused me to have a mini-stroke. Thanks.

I thought you were a driver, Dura_Ace, not some pampered fop who needs to be able to specify the temperature of his seat and that his air temperature needs to be two degrees lower than that of his passenger and who needs a computer to tell him the way home.

And another thing: complicated climate control doesn't work. Or it doesn't work particularly effectively. Certainly less effectively than 'I am a bit cold - I will turn the dial a bit from blue to red - ah, that's better'.

I'm not saying that a 2009 Ford Focus is the best driving experience ever. It's perfectly adequate - you can keep up with the traffic, it doesn't veer off to the left. I daresay if you were racing you would want something a bit more exciting.
But my point is that nothing which has happened since then - new buttons, flashing lights, push button ignition, electric handbrakes - makes life any better at all.

Electric handbrakes are shit and mean you can't use the handbrake to control the car on a steep hill. All they do is stop the car rolling away when you park. A brick in front of a tyre, or behind it, would achieve the same thing.

Climate control is rubbish and is far inferior to the old Ford model of one dial for heat and another for whoosh.

GPS is for girly men who can't read maps and who like being told "turn left", "turn right", etc. - ideal for the Covid generation. Lock yourself up. You came within 3 metres of someone who missed his vaccine appointment. Do not pass Go. Do not enjoy solving problems. That's your tool's job.

Automatic transmission is also shit and for drivers who don't enjoy being in control of a car or the feeling of brrrm, brrrrrrrrrm.

Teslas are like pornosex for those with microscopic testicles who can't even manage a proper J Arthur.

Spot on.

I got a lift from someone in a Tesla recently.
It was clearly a very good car. He was very pleased in demonstrating how well it accelerated.
It wasn't a particularly pleasant journey however as there were lots of sudden small changes of speed. I don't know whether to blame the driver or the car for this (I suspect the former).
He also INSISTED on following his satnav rather than my directions, making the journey much longer. He couldn't conceive that the satnav wouldn't be the perfect answer.
He was also baffled when I tried to direct him to a location close to a station - a reasonably well-known location on a main road less than a mile from where he had lived for over five years - because being totally reliant on satnavs he was as ignorant as a baby about his local geography.

Dura_Ace said:

MarqueeMark said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burgessian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

StillWaters said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.

200 T-55 vs 14 Challenger 2s… I wouldn’t bet against the T-55s

I refer you to the Battle of Norfolk.

Not quite the same tank versions but earlier iterations.

From wiki. Quite something.

"A British Challenger 1 tank during the 1st Gulf War. The British Challenger tank was the most efficient tank of the Gulf war suffering no losses while destroying approximately 300 Iraqi tanks during combat operations."

The Challengers will have four major advantages over the older Russian tanks

i) Longer firing range

ii) Much better armour

iii) GPS

iv) Night vision

In the original Gulf War a single battalion of Abrams, which are comparable to Challengers, destroyed an entire Iraqi division.

Also, like then, the Ukranians will have much better live time intelligence info.

It doesn't really make any sense to do a direct comparison as there has been very little hardcore tank-on-tank action in the SMO; that is not how it's being fought.

Also, you'll be very lucky to see a Russian tank as the 100% truth telling Ukrainians now claim to have destroyed every tank in the Russian army.

Like the seventy odd HIMARs systems Russia claims to have taken out ?
(Actual score, zero.)

One reason for the older tanks might be that some of them are just in a better state fo repair.
Captured Russian T-62 with the name Leopard 2 in service with Ukraine. P.S: The tank is almost new, the mileage is only 440 km.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1640744321103060998

The T80s and newer T72s are reported to be pretty high mileage in general.

As Dura Ace must know, the numbers quoted refer to the number of tanks initially committed to the "SMO"/invasion of Ukraine, as supplemented after it went so swimmingly to start with.

Imagine how fucked the Russians will be when 150% of their tanks have been destroyed.

Fishing said:

MarqueeMark said:

MarqueeMark said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burgessian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

StillWaters said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.

200 T-55 vs 14 Challenger 2s… I wouldn’t bet against the T-55s

I refer you to the Battle of Norfolk.

Not quite the same tank versions but earlier iterations.

From wiki. Quite something.

"A British Challenger 1 tank during the 1st Gulf War. The British Challenger tank was the most efficient tank of the Gulf war suffering no losses while destroying approximately 300 Iraqi tanks during combat operations."

The Challengers will have four major advantages over the older Russian tanks

i) Longer firing range

ii) Much better armour

iii) GPS

iv) Night vision

In the original Gulf War a single battalion of Abrams, which are comparable to Challengers, destroyed an entire Iraqi division.

Also, like then, the Ukranians will have much better live time intelligence info.

It doesn't really make any sense to do a direct comparison as there has been very little hardcore tank-on-tank action in the SMO; that is not how it's being fought.

Also, you'll be very lucky to see a Russian tank as the 100% truth telling Ukrainians now claim to have destroyed every tank in the Russian army.

Like the seventy odd HIMARs systems Russia claims to have taken out ?
(Actual score, zero.)

One reason for the older tanks might be that some of them are just in a better state fo repair.
Captured Russian T-62 with the name Leopard 2 in service with Ukraine. P.S: The tank is almost new, the mileage is only 440 km.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1640744321103060998

The T80s and newer T72s are reported to be pretty high mileage in general.

As Dura Ace must know, the numbers quoted refer to the number of tanks initially committed to the "SMO"/invasion of Ukraine, as supplemented after it went so swimmingly to start with.

Which is why they are having to rob their museums and tank graveyards.

Russia could not field tanks in the far east if China saw the moment to invade.

Bollocks.

A simple Google shows at least 5 1940s vintage T-34s on display in Vladivostok museums.

turbotubbs said:

Malmesbury said:

Dura_Ace said:

MarqueeMark said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burgessian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

StillWaters said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.

200 T-55 vs 14 Challenger 2s… I wouldn’t bet against the T-55s

I refer you to the Battle of Norfolk.

Not quite the same tank versions but earlier iterations.

From wiki. Quite something.

"A British Challenger 1 tank during the 1st Gulf War. The British Challenger tank was the most efficient tank of the Gulf war suffering no losses while destroying approximately 300 Iraqi tanks during combat operations."

The Challengers will have four major advantages over the older Russian tanks

i) Longer firing range

ii) Much better armour

iii) GPS

iv) Night vision

In the original Gulf War a single battalion of Abrams, which are comparable to Challengers, destroyed an entire Iraqi division.

Also, like then, the Ukranians will have much better live time intelligence info.

It doesn't really make any sense to do a direct comparison as there has been very little hardcore tank-on-tank action in the SMO; that is not how it's being fought.

Also, you'll be very lucky to see a Russian tank as the 100% truth telling Ukrainians now claim to have destroyed every tank in the Russian army.

Like the seventy odd HIMARs systems Russia claims to have taken out ?
(Actual score, zero.)

One reason for the older tanks might be that some of them are just in a better state fo repair.
Captured Russian T-62 with the name Leopard 2 in service with Ukraine. P.S: The tank is almost new, the mileage is only 440 km.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1640744321103060998

The T80s and newer T72s are reported to be pretty high mileage in general.

As Dura Ace must know, the numbers quoted refer to the number of tanks initially committed to the "SMO"/invasion of Ukraine, as supplemented after it went so swimmingly to start with.

Imagine how fucked the Russians will be when 150% of their tanks have been destroyed.

IIRC some German units made it to more than 600% loses by the end of WW2 - destroyed, rebuilt, destroyed….

I'd imagine British and US the same - one of the great advantages the allies had in Normandy was the ability to repair and replace knocked-out armour.

Leon said:

Nigelb said:

Roger said:

Emerald said:

Julia Hartley Brewer starting to go full on antivax on talkradio this morning. She says we have been big pharma guinea pigs. Interesting.

Does anyone still read or listen to Julia Hartley Brewer anymore?

The kind of poster that @rcs1000 bans from time to time, almost certainly.

Anti vaxxery is spreading, however, and it’s not all nutters and Russian bots seeding division

In recent days I’ve heard “vax skeptical” opinions, in different forms, from a few sources I’d regard as definitely sane
🤷‍♂️

MattW said:

For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

Dura_Ace said:

MarqueeMark said:

Nigelb said:

Dura_Ace said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Burgessian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

StillWaters said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.

200 T-55 vs 14 Challenger 2s… I wouldn’t bet against the T-55s

I refer you to the Battle of Norfolk.

Not quite the same tank versions but earlier iterations.

From wiki. Quite something.

"A British Challenger 1 tank during the 1st Gulf War. The British Challenger tank was the most efficient tank of the Gulf war suffering no losses while destroying approximately 300 Iraqi tanks during combat operations."

The Challengers will have four major advantages over the older Russian tanks

i) Longer firing range

ii) Much better armour

iii) GPS

iv) Night vision

In the original Gulf War a single battalion of Abrams, which are comparable to Challengers, destroyed an entire Iraqi division.

Also, like then, the Ukranians will have much better live time intelligence info.

It doesn't really make any sense to do a direct comparison as there has been very little hardcore tank-on-tank action in the SMO; that is not how it's being fought.

Also, you'll be very lucky to see a Russian tank as the 100% truth telling Ukrainians now claim to have destroyed every tank in the Russian army.

Like the seventy odd HIMARs systems Russia claims to have taken out ?
(Actual score, zero.)

One reason for the older tanks might be that some of them are just in a better state fo repair.
Captured Russian T-62 with the name Leopard 2 in service with Ukraine. P.S: The tank is almost new, the mileage is only 440 km.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1640744321103060998

The T80s and newer T72s are reported to be pretty high mileage in general.

As Dura Ace must know, the numbers quoted refer to the number of tanks initially committed to the "SMO"/invasion of Ukraine, as supplemented after it went so swimmingly to start with.

Imagine how fucked the Russians will be when 150% of their tanks have been destroyed.

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Leon said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

AI is getting so powerful this is now a thing:


“Elon Musk and over 1,100 tech experts have signed an open letter to stop AI training beyond GPT-4.

AI is getting too powerful too quickly, and they want at least a 6-month pause on AI training 😬”

https://twitter.com/garymarcus/status/1640884040835428357?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

I don’t believe it will work. Whoever gets the best AGI first will become enormously powerful and enormously rich. When have humans ever resisted that?

Plus, the Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Japanese, Russians etc will be working on their own versions, they won’t stop because the military capabilities of AGI will be monumental, and if you’re enemy has them and you don’t you’re screwed

I don't know about the Chinese.
Authoritarian control freaks tend to be more cautious about competition form such systems.

For now at least, it's the US.

Wrong. The Chinese - quite sensibly - see the potential here. And they are racing to catch up with the USA. They are a year or two behind


“Chinese researchers unveil AI language model that beats GPT-3
Minds behind WuDao 2.0 develop AI model to run on a single V100 server”


https://aibusiness.com/nlp/chinese-researchers-unveil-ai-language-model-that-beats-gpt-3

AI is the main reason Biden slapped those severe bans on the export of chip tech (and other stuff) to Beijing

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Emerald said:

And more

There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Sandpit said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

From a quick Google, the cheapest car with a range of 500km, 300 miles, is the £43,000 Skoda Enyaq.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/best/longest-range-electric-vehicles/

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

Stocky said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

What about servicing an EV? Do you still have an annual service and if so is the cost comparable?

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Cookie said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Cookie said:

Carnyx said:

Cookie said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

Mexicanpete said:

DavidL said:

Benpointer said:

I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.

As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

Labour are doomed, doomed I say!

Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.

You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.

Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!

Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?

Not for three years, though ...

If the predictions of Humza’s tenure not outlasting a Trussian lettuce don’t come to pass, that’s just three more years for Ross & co to put their obvious qualities on display.

That reminds me - is Mr Ross leaving Holyrood at the next election, or is my memory failing me? I am sure I recall some announcement, but can't confirm it. So I may be quite wrong, in which case apols.

He announced he was leaving Westminster at the next GE.

Thanks - that's it.

That means a new candidate for Moray presumably? Luckily a large pool of achievers to choose from.

Hmm, fisherfolk and farmers not too happy with Brexit either. But the latter not exactly SKS voters, and it was the previous leader of the LDs who liked to be filmed in front of farm animals. Not sure that Mr C-H has quite the same knack.

"Fisherfolk"? This conjures an image of olde worlde types for whom the 19th century is dangerously modern. Nice alliteration though.

Non-gendered*. Also means the family members, comer to think of it, so works well in political terms.

Edit: like e.g. convenor instead of chairperson.

Also: avoids confusion with the people with rod and line.

Do you get many (any?) women on trawlers? Your points about family and anglers are good though (though again in my mind conjures up images of 18th century communities).
I don't have a better word, mind.

EDIT: I rather like 'convenor', though. 'Chairperson' always sounded horribly clunky. (And irritation with Chairman/Chair/Chairperson goes back at least to the 70s. I can remember my grandfather, somewhat implausibly, claiming that the 'man' in chairman referred not to a male human but was short for 'manifesto'. I was sceptical then and remain so now.)

It's not just trawlers (on which a lot of thew workforce is non-UK). Inshore fishijng is a very important industry. No idea of the gender balance though.

Plenty of small towns used to have a "fishertown" wit distinct architecture and location - Berwick, Nairn, Cromarty spring to mind (and Wick, but that was specially developed - a fine sight to visit).

Good morning

My Scottish family are all 'fisherfolk' or related to 'fisherfolk' and if you go back far enough the wives used to carry their menfolk onto their boats to keep their feet dry

Also in Lossiemouth there was the terrible Stotfield disaster when the wives watched the menfolk sail from the beach then a dramatic turn for the worst in the weather with the ferocity of the storm overwhelming the three boats with all 21 men and youths drowned, leaving only women, young children and the elderly in Stotfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stotfield_fishing_disaster#

And would they have used the word 'fisherfolk'?
I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm genuinely interested.

They certainly did in Arbroath where my wife's family was from. The fisherfolk lived in the fit o' the toon, basically near the harbour. It was a very closely related community. A fisherman's wife not only had to carry their men to the boats but did most of the gutting of the fish as well. It was a bloody hard life for someone who had not been brought up on it which led the men to choose women from inside the community.

Quite weirdly in Arbroath the fit o' the toon always voted conservative until my late father in law stood for Labour. All voters that day were greeted by name by his gran who sat in front of the polling booth with her knitting and asked, "you'll be voting for my grandson?"

Would there be much call for carrying the men to the boats in ports (like Arbroath) with harbours?

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Cookie said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Carnyx said:

Cookie said:

Carnyx said:

Cookie said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

Mexicanpete said:

DavidL said:

Benpointer said:

I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.

As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

Labour are doomed, doomed I say!

Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.

You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.

Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!

Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?

Not for three years, though ...

If the predictions of Humza’s tenure not outlasting a Trussian lettuce don’t come to pass, that’s just three more years for Ross & co to put their obvious qualities on display.

That reminds me - is Mr Ross leaving Holyrood at the next election, or is my memory failing me? I am sure I recall some announcement, but can't confirm it. So I may be quite wrong, in which case apols.

He announced he was leaving Westminster at the next GE.

Thanks - that's it.

That means a new candidate for Moray presumably? Luckily a large pool of achievers to choose from.

Hmm, fisherfolk and farmers not too happy with Brexit either. But the latter not exactly SKS voters, and it was the previous leader of the LDs who liked to be filmed in front of farm animals. Not sure that Mr C-H has quite the same knack.

"Fisherfolk"? This conjures an image of olde worlde types for whom the 19th century is dangerously modern. Nice alliteration though.

Non-gendered*. Also means the family members, comer to think of it, so works well in political terms.

Edit: like e.g. convenor instead of chairperson.

Also: avoids confusion with the people with rod and line.

Do you get many (any?) women on trawlers? Your points about family and anglers are good though (though again in my mind conjures up images of 18th century communities).
I don't have a better word, mind.

EDIT: I rather like 'convenor', though. 'Chairperson' always sounded horribly clunky. (And irritation with Chairman/Chair/Chairperson goes back at least to the 70s. I can remember my grandfather, somewhat implausibly, claiming that the 'man' in chairman referred not to a male human but was short for 'manifesto'. I was sceptical then and remain so now.)

It's not just trawlers (on which a lot of thew workforce is non-UK). Inshore fishijng is a very important industry. No idea of the gender balance though.

Plenty of small towns used to have a "fishertown" wit distinct architecture and location - Berwick, Nairn, Cromarty spring to mind (and Wick, but that was specially developed - a fine sight to visit).

Good morning

My Scottish family are all 'fisherfolk' or related to 'fisherfolk' and if you go back far enough the wives used to carry their menfolk onto their boats to keep their feet dry

Also in Lossiemouth there was the terrible Stotfield disaster when the wives watched the menfolk sail from the beach then a dramatic turn for the worst in the weather with the ferocity of the storm overwhelming the three boats with all 21 men and youths drowned, leaving only women, young children and the elderly in Stotfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stotfield_fishing_disaster#

And would they have used the word 'fisherfolk'?
I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm genuinely interested.

They certainly did in Arbroath where my wife's family was from. The fisherfolk lived in the fit o' the toon, basically near the harbour. It was a very closely related community. A fisherman's wife not only had to carry their men to the boats but did most of the gutting of the fish as well. It was a bloody hard life for someone who had not been brought up on it which led the men to choose women from inside the community.

Quite weirdly in Arbroath the fit o' the toon always voted conservative until my late father in law stood for Labour. All voters that day were greeted by name by his gran who sat in front of the polling booth with her knitting and asked, "you'll be voting for my grandson?"

Would there be much call for carrying the men to the boats in ports (like Arbroath) with harbours?

turbotubbs said:

Stocky said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

What about servicing an EV? Do you still have an annual service and if so is the cost comparable?

Full EV are mechanically simpler and avoid burning stuff in an engine, so servicing is simpler.

Nigelb said:

Who was/is our resident money supply/inflation obsessive ?

The US Money Supply has fallen 2.4% over the last 12 months, the largest year-over-year decline on record (note: M2 data goes back to 1959).
https://twitter.com/charliebilello/status/1640765152818593827

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

MikeSmithson said:

The range of my Toyota hybrid is 570 miles - a bit less in the winter. I'd argue that it has less impact on the environment than any EV

MikeSmithson said:

The range of my Toyota hybrid is 570 miles - a bit less in the winter. I'd argue that it has less impact on the environment than any EV

LostPassword said:

Sandpit said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

From a quick Google, the cheapest car with a range of 500km, 300 miles, is the £43,000 Skoda Enyaq.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/best/longest-range-electric-vehicles/

What would have been the cheapest 500km range BEV car in 2018? By 2028 I'd expect the price to be below £30k.

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.

Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.

Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/

People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.

BlancheLivermore said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Cookie said:

LostPassword said:

turbotubbs said:

squareroot2 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

LostPassword said:

Pulpstar said:

squareroot2 said:

Malmesbury said:

squareroot2 said:

Nigelb said:

Cookie said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Foxy said:

Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

Cassette tapes are more niche

Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.

I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.

I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.

You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.

Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
to charge his ev f pace

Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.

No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

All those fuel stations will disappear.

Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.

Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .

There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.

Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.

Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.

How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?

Not very often, once you have an EV !

It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.

Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/

People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.

Won't company cars get charged at work?