Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

So what will now happen in Scotland at the general election? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited April 2023 in General
imageSo what will now happen in Scotland at the general election? – politicalbetting.com

The above is from the excellent Commons library report and analysis of the 2019 General Election and shows some of the charts in relation to Scotland.

Read the full story here

«1345678

Comments

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited March 2023
    We really need some new Scottish polling.

    EDIT: First, like ..... who knows?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Hopefully, an SNP implosion back to before 2015, and a return to more usual politics in Scotland. Some Labour MPs from the cities, some Tory MPs from the lowlands, and some Lib Dem MPs from the highlands.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    I would expect a lot more Labour seats in Scotland at the GE but top dog is pushing it from a base of 1. I think they could well end up with a dozen or so but that would still leave the SNP with a plurality. The Tories may be able to pick up a couple, Angus and Gordon being amongst the better bets, but they will not improve much unless Yousless carries on as he has started with chaos, division and incompetence.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    Yep, if the Tories lose 50 seats, they are gone.

    A Lab majority is a tough task, but that is where we are on current polling, even with the slight uptick.

    Only a few weeks to go now to see a real vote.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,354
    Independence as a driver of voting intention is not going away and the SNP, even if they have a bad election in 2024, are probably not heading back to sub 20%. That means a Labour party defending any majority in 2028/9 is likely to still be vulnerable in its
    Scottish seats to small swings.

    The SNP could have more bad days in the next few years, but they are not going away.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Foxy said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    Yep, if the Tories lose 50 seats, they are gone.

    A Lab majority is a tough task, but that is where we are on current polling, even with the slight uptick.

    Only a few weeks to go now to see a real vote.
    Not in Scotland though. No local government voting this year.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
  • The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    UK ‘strikingly unprepared’ for impacts of climate crisis
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/29/uk-strikingly-unprepared-impacts-climate-crisis

    This is an under appreciated political issue, separate from progress towards net zero.
    It's very likely indeed that global temperatures will continue to rise for the next three decades, and that will require mitigations that have not been planned for.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    Dup. So.last year
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    That the SNP went to 35 seats in 2017 demonstrates some of the extreme volatility. I think repeating that but with more Labour than Tory gains would be an excellent result in 2024.

    For now, being a pessimist, I'm sticking with mid 40s.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    2019 saw a continuing squeeze from both SNP and Tory in Gordon, however the Nats and the Tories are much weaker than they were, so, depending on the boundaries I think the Lib Dems will clearly increase their vote substantially and could even sneak it from third place, as the Tories did in 2017.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    Even if the SNP is a busted flush, that does not mean a desire for independence is dead. It is too early to say how this will play out at a general election but it might mean independence-minded Scots voting SNP at a general election and other parties at Scottish elections, while unionist-minded Scots do the opposite.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    Any seats for Alba?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    Dup. So.last year
    Given they seem to be boycotting official parliamentary politics in NI because they are not in the lead I'd go back a bit more than one year.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cicero said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    2019 saw a continuing squeeze from both SNP and Tory in Gordon, however the Nats and the Tories are much weaker than they were, so, depending on the boundaries I think the Lib Dems will clearly increase their vote substantially and could even sneak it from third place, as the Tories did in 2017.
    Right ...

    I remember forecasts of prospects in mid-Wales from the Tallinn LibDem Focus Team proved to be completely inaccurate.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    And apparently still determine sons of our policy, too.
    So utterly useless. As if that's news.

  • pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Some of us have made decent money betting on Scottish politics.

    Pound for pound Scotland is my most profitable area of political betting.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kle4 said:


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
    Well, with 84,088 posts, you obviously feel no great restriction. My rule of thumb is:

    If total posts are between 25,000 to 50,000, then the poster's social life needs serious help.

    If total posts exceed 50,000, then the poster needs serious help.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Nigelb said:

    UK ‘strikingly unprepared’ for impacts of climate crisis
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/29/uk-strikingly-unprepared-impacts-climate-crisis

    This is an under appreciated political issue, separate from progress towards net zero.
    It's very likely indeed that global temperatures will continue to rise for the next three decades, and that will require mitigations that have not been planned for.

    So you mean that governments have been spending all your energy on trying to eliminate something they'd have been better off trying to mitigate?

    Well, there's surely no precedent for that.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    Dup. So.last year

    Even if the SNP is a busted flush, that does not mean a desire for independence is dead. It is too early to say how this will play out at a general election but it might mean independence-minded Scots voting SNP at a general election and other parties at Scottish elections, while unionist-minded Scots do the opposite.

    Anything is possible.. After all Scotland beat Spain last night.....
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    edited March 2023
    I think the SNP activists have made a choice that they prefer to be a "progressive", i.e. left wing party, rather than a national movement of both left and right. That more or less guarantees that voters who believe in liberal economics will have no reason to vote for them and businesses no reason to fund them, and equally voters who are left wing may choose to vote for an actual, "genuine", left wing party, i.e. Labour.

    Independence as an issue has fallen in popularity, and the sense of the inevitability or even desirability of separation has fallen quite sharply (somewhat ironically, this seems to be a result of the negative impact of the Brexit separation).

    The SNP was a political juggernaut, but a combination of bad judgement, an air of sleaze and real questions about the viability of independence seems set to give the party a significant knock back at the next GE, though FPTP might save several SNP MPs. Come the next Scottish Parliament elections however, the lack of funds and turmoil in the party´s organization, after the departure of Murell, not to mention growing personal and political divisions, as well as the passing of a political generation, could even see the Nats knocked out of power at Holyrood.

    [cue: Ayrshire´s little ray of sunshine in total fulmination mode]
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Cwsc, if a member has over 50,000 posts he might have offered a 250/1 winning tip.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Good morning everybody! Hard to believe we’re almost in April.

    Interesting, and perhaps a sign of something or other BBC headline is the death of a comedian and drag artist.
  • A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    Do have to laugh. As a market the UK simply isn't large enough to sustain its own regulations regardless of what the ERG wazzocks think. So when we go off on our own we add a bucket load of costs which manufacturers can't stomach. In this case we risk what is left of our car manufacturing industry.

    Radical idea - how about we co-operate with our close neighbours whose market is much larger than ours, and ensure our products fit their regulations? That way we don't unilaterally impose a load of costs and drive ourselves out of business.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    It's not as plain as that.
    The Russians likely have well over 1500 relatively modern T72s they can still bring to the field this year, along with several hundred T80s, and the number of Challengers is very small; that of Leopards not much more.

    The invasion is still quite some way from
    defeat without further resources from Ukraine's allies.
    Ukraine can hold the Russians, but it's still an open question as to how quickly they can push them back.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Scottish Labour could do very well under FPTP if it can pick up votes both from SNP and Tories.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,238
    I don't really care how many seats Labour wins in Scotland. What I care about is Tory seats. Hopefully closer to zero than at present.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    edited March 2023
    No, no Mr Pioneer! There are plenty of other markets for us to look at! What about Ecuador?

    For the avoidance of doubt, this is a sarcastic post from a committed Rejoiner!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    Youseless is very fortunate that there is not an early cross-Scotland election to measure his performance by.

    Are there local elections next year, ahead of the general in October?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    edited March 2023

    Good morning everybody! Hard to believe we’re almost in April.

    Interesting, and perhaps a sign of something or other BBC headline is the death of a comedian and drag artist.

    A comedian and drag artist who was recently pushed out of Radio 2, and who was all over the telly whenever Clare Balding was too busy for a doggy programme. I wonder what was his IR35 status?

    ETA but yes, it does rather look like today's news page editor was a huge fan of O'Grady.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126

    Cicero said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    2019 saw a continuing squeeze from both SNP and Tory in Gordon, however the Nats and the Tories are much weaker than they were, so, depending on the boundaries I think the Lib Dems will clearly increase their vote substantially and could even sneak it from third place, as the Tories did in 2017.
    Right ...

    I remember forecasts of prospects in mid-Wales from the Tallinn LibDem Focus Team proved to be completely inaccurate.
    Well, DYOR, but FWIW I have campaigned in and around Gordon on and and off for 40 odd years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK ‘strikingly unprepared’ for impacts of climate crisis
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/29/uk-strikingly-unprepared-impacts-climate-crisis

    This is an under appreciated political issue, separate from progress towards net zero.
    It's very likely indeed that global temperatures will continue to rise for the next three decades, and that will require mitigations that have not been planned for.

    So you mean that governments have been spending all your energy on trying to eliminate something they'd have been better off trying to mitigate?

    Well, there's surely no precedent for that.
    Obviously, no.
    Both things are needed. That you think it's either or just proves my point about the issue being under appreciated.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443

    Good morning everybody! Hard to believe we’re almost in April.

    Interesting, and perhaps a sign of something or other BBC headline is the death of a comedian and drag artist.

    Given the rain this week, it is quite easy to believe it is almost April.
  • DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Not in force anywhere in the UK! If you are a Tory MP why would you want to vote to abolish your own seat?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    Youseless is very fortunate that there is not an early cross-Scotland election to measure his performance by.

    Are there local elections next year, ahead of the general in October?
    Not till 2027. Holyrood is 2026. Community councils are 2025, but those are more local than national party stuff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?
    Not for three years, though ...
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    My boring prediction is a moderate return to form for Labour, winning maybe half a dozen or so seats. FWIW I'm starting to wonder if the SNP's wobble is going to help Labour that much in net gain terms; I'd imagine it'll shore up the Tory seats too. Good news for the LDs maybe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    Without government action, the change likely wouldn't have happened at all. Certainly nowhere near as fast as it has.

    Getting to the economies of scale which enable EVs to outcompete ICE vehicles in the market this decade required both deadlines and massive subsidies.

    The other alternative might have been action a decade earlier.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    The reference to population numbers was for the old boundaries, not the new ones!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    RIP Lily Savage

    Did a gig with her/him at the Usher Hall once. Worst night of my professional career.

    The unexpected upside is no gig after that was ever as bad. Not even the high school death metal band in a blizzard on the back of a fish truck at Hogmanay
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    kle4 said:


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
    Like how most of the Scottish resident (with one notable exception - take a bow MalcG) dismissed concerns over the GRR bill as a fuss about nothing…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    AFAIU independence is a driver for a huge number of Scottish voters and, however poor their leadership may or may not be (I find it incredibly hard to believe the new FM is as bad as made out on here) they are the biggest game in town in that respect. But what do I know?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    edited March 2023

    kle4 said:


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
    Like how most of the Scottish resident (with one notable exception - take a bow MalcG) dismissed concerns over the GRR bill as a fuss about nothing…
    A fuss about nothing, that claimed the political career of the First Minister.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    Ah, yes, checking the Act you are correct - the reports need to be laid before Parliament and, once all four have been, the government has four months to give the King an Order in Council to ratify.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Scott_xP said:

    RIP Lily Savage

    Did a gig with her/him at the Usher Hall once. Worst night of my professional career.

    The unexpected upside is no gig after that was ever as bad. Not even the high school death metal band in a blizzard on the back of a fish truck at Hogmanay

    Forgive my ignorance, but are you a drag artist as well and suffer from comparison?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?
    Not for three years, though ...
    If the predictions of Humza’s tenure not outlasting a Trussian lettuce don’t come to pass, that’s just three more years for Ross & co to put their obvious qualities on display.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Nigelb said:

    UK ‘strikingly unprepared’ for impacts of climate crisis
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/29/uk-strikingly-unprepared-impacts-climate-crisis

    This is an under appreciated political issue, separate from progress towards net zero.
    It's very likely indeed that global temperatures will continue to rise for the next three decades, and that will require mitigations that have not been planned for.

    The effects of climate change will manifest in further migration challenges too; better start building more of these migrant cruise liners I'm hearing about.

    Governments don't tend to plan further than the next election, sadly. A kind of tragedy-of-the-Commons if you like; mitigating climate change ought to be a cross-party issue (barring dunderhead extremists and thickos).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Scott_xP said:

    RIP Lily Savage

    Did a gig with her/him at the Usher Hall once. Worst night of my professional career.

    The unexpected upside is no gig after that was ever as bad. Not even the high school death metal band in a blizzard on the back of a fish truck at Hogmanay

    Forgive my ignorance, but are you a drag artist as well and suffer from comparison?
    Obvs a trans self-identifier, too.
  • This is going to be fun in 2026.

    Labour will target Humza Yousaf’s Glasgow Pollok seat with a message that he lives 80 miles from the constituency, in an attempt to undermine his election campaigning.

    Pollok is among the areas where Labour is delivering direct mail shots to try to capture voters who have previously backed the SNP as part of a campaign to exploit the divisive leadership election.

    Yousaf’s home is in Dundee and he must now spend much more time living and working in Edinburgh after becoming first minister.

    Labour hope that they can pin him into his constituency during the 2026 Holyrood election, hampering his ability to tour the country to campaign as party leader.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-aims-to-target-glasgow-pollok-seat-of-absent-first-minister-humza-yousaf-2mcspp60z
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    I'm a bit nervous about the Challenger 2's. A few 152mm artillery shells and ATGM strikes could quickly knock most of the 14 sent out.

    Meanwhile France is doubling its supply of 155mm artillery shells to 2,000. A month. The lack of artillery ammunition is a huge problem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    Youseless is very fortunate that there is not an early cross-Scotland election to measure his performance by.

    Are there local elections next year, ahead of the general in October?
    Don't think so. I think the next locals are due 2026.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
    Biased towards actual voters. No vote, no voice...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
    EVs are the future. Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    This is going to be fun in 2026.

    Labour will target Humza Yousaf’s Glasgow Pollok seat with a message that he lives 80 miles from the constituency, in an attempt to undermine his election campaigning.

    Pollok is among the areas where Labour is delivering direct mail shots to try to capture voters who have previously backed the SNP as part of a campaign to exploit the divisive leadership election.

    Yousaf’s home is in Dundee and he must now spend much more time living and working in Edinburgh after becoming first minister.

    Labour hope that they can pin him into his constituency during the 2026 Holyrood election, hampering his ability to tour the country to campaign as party leader.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-aims-to-target-glasgow-pollok-seat-of-absent-first-minister-humza-yousaf-2mcspp60z

    'Decapitation' strategies tend not to be a great use of resources though, right?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
    Biased towards actual voters. No vote, no voice...
    What was the turnout in central Liverpool seats, such as Bootle
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
    Well, with 84,088 posts, you obviously feel no great restriction. My rule of thumb is:

    If total posts are between 25,000 to 50,000, then the poster's social life needs serious help.

    If total posts exceed 50,000, then the poster needs serious help.
    Whew!
    Not long to go though. Just saying.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    edited March 2023

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?
    Not for three years, though ...
    If the predictions of Humza’s tenure not outlasting a Trussian lettuce don’t come to pass, that’s just three more years for Ross & co to put their obvious qualities on display.
    That reminds me - is Mr Ross leaving Holyrood at the next election, or is my memory failing me? I am sure I recall some announcement, but can't confirm it. So I may be quite wrong, in which case apols.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Off thread - yougov have sent me an offer by which - in exchange for 500 points (worth £5 at some point in the far future, assuming I do enough surveys) I give them details of all my banking transactions.
    I'm not a privacy fundamentalist, but this sounds an astonishingly cheap price to sell such sensitive data for. I wonder how many takers they're getting?
  • Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
    EVs are the future. Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.
    Despite me eulogising EVs on YouTube we are soon to hand back wifey's Ioniq EV. And replace it with a Panda 4x4 petrol...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
    Biased towards actual voters. No vote, no voice...
    But only at a snapshotr of time. Later registrants don't count. Ergo voter suppression.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    kle4 said:


    pb.com's high-performance team of experts on Scottish politics are in full flow.

    Gods forbid people speculate on politics. As we all know, only those in or with deep connection to a place ever get things right about it.
    Well, with 84,088 posts, you obviously feel no great restriction. My rule of thumb is:

    If total posts are between 25,000 to 50,000, then the poster's social life needs serious help.

    If total posts exceed 50,000, then the poster needs serious help.
    Luckily we're not actually under your thumb.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    She made Humza look good by comparison as Health Secretary? I hope he doesn’t trust her to pilot any controversial legislation - ask a new backbencher how that turned out…..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    Ghedebrav said:

    This is going to be fun in 2026.

    Labour will target Humza Yousaf’s Glasgow Pollok seat with a message that he lives 80 miles from the constituency, in an attempt to undermine his election campaigning.

    Pollok is among the areas where Labour is delivering direct mail shots to try to capture voters who have previously backed the SNP as part of a campaign to exploit the divisive leadership election.

    Yousaf’s home is in Dundee and he must now spend much more time living and working in Edinburgh after becoming first minister.

    Labour hope that they can pin him into his constituency during the 2026 Holyrood election, hampering his ability to tour the country to campaign as party leader.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-aims-to-target-glasgow-pollok-seat-of-absent-first-minister-humza-yousaf-2mcspp60z

    'Decapitation' strategies tend not to be a great use of resources though, right?
    Also a bit odd for opponents of the party to target a leader they profess to be utterly useless.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168

    This is going to be fun in 2026.

    Labour will target Humza Yousaf’s Glasgow Pollok seat with a message that he lives 80 miles from the constituency, in an attempt to undermine his election campaigning.

    Pollok is among the areas where Labour is delivering direct mail shots to try to capture voters who have previously backed the SNP as part of a campaign to exploit the divisive leadership election.

    Yousaf’s home is in Dundee and he must now spend much more time living and working in Edinburgh after becoming first minister.

    Labour hope that they can pin him into his constituency during the 2026 Holyrood election, hampering his ability to tour the country to campaign as party leader.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-aims-to-target-glasgow-pollok-seat-of-absent-first-minister-humza-yousaf-2mcspp60z

    I’m old enough to remember Anas’s bold strategy to oust Nicola from her constituency (it may even have been given some credence on here). No doubt lessons have been learned.



  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    DougSeal said:

    AFAIU independence is a driver for a huge number of Scottish voters and, however poor their leadership may or may not be (I find it incredibly hard to believe the new FM is as bad as made out on here) they are the biggest game in town in that respect. But what do I know?

    Coupled with that, the Gender Rights Bill was supported even more strongly by SLAB and SLD, as well as SG, even 3 SCON as I recall.

    So it may well be that Indy preference beats gender preference in deciding votes.



  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    The current boundaries are I think older than that. I thought that they had been ready for 2005, but were delayed and not used for that GE, and so are probably based on 2002 numbers of registered electors.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
    Biased towards actual voters. No vote, no voice...
    But only at a snapshotr of time. Later registrants don't count. Ergo voter suppression.
    Well, durr. You have to have a cut off at some point. That's independent of whether you use registered voters - a known quantity at any point - or population numbers - which is only known precisely on one day every 10 years.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    When it comes to the forming of the next government, the one thing to have in mind is that the SNP is not going to enable a Tory government; and will, despite rhetoric, enable a Labour one however cobbled together and however messy.

    Seats is one thing; government another. So the common interest is in stopping a Tory resurgence in Scotland. At the moment that looks a fairly easy ride for the other parties.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    I'm a bit nervous about the Challenger 2's. A few 152mm artillery shells and ATGM strikes could quickly knock most of the 14 sent out.

    Meanwhile France is doubling its supply of 155mm artillery shells to 2,000. A month. The lack of artillery ammunition is a huge problem.
    The lack of artillery rounds is very much a problem, and suppliers are upping production as stocks deplete faster than expected. Leading to some amusing headlines: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/energy-hungry-tiktok-cat-videos-altering-the-course-of-armed-conflict-in-ukraine/ar-AA1980xU

    The Western tanks are used very differently to the Russian tanks, which is what the Ukranians have been training in recent weeks. You don’t send a column of them down a road, you send one alongside significant infantrymen and other armoured vehicles.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    CDs are objectively better than streaming - if you pay for the music you own the music.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    I'm a bit nervous about the Challenger 2's. A few 152mm artillery shells and ATGM strikes could quickly knock most of the 14 sent out.

    Meanwhile France is doubling its supply of 155mm artillery shells to 2,000. A month. The lack of artillery ammunition is a huge problem.
    The lack of artillery rounds is very much a problem, and suppliers are upping production as stocks deplete faster than expected. Leading to some amusing headlines: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/energy-hungry-tiktok-cat-videos-altering-the-course-of-armed-conflict-in-ukraine/ar-AA1980xU

    The Western tanks are used very differently to the Russian tanks, which is what the Ukranians have been training in recent weeks. You don’t send a column of them down a road, you send one alongside significant infantrymen and other armoured vehicles.
    Guderian walks among us!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    The current boundaries are I think older than that. I thought that they had been ready for 2005, but were delayed and not used for that GE, and so are probably based on 2002 numbers of registered electors.
    Sadly, we shall still have Priti Patel as the Tory candidate in what is reckoned to be, even now, a safe, Tory seat.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
    EVs are the future. Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.
    And I would take the photo from a Nikon FE2 over that of an iPhone 6s any day of the week.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
    EVs are the future. Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.
    Film cameras are enjoying something of a resurgence at the moment, as are vinyl records.

    Car enthusiasts are very much looking to find good examples of collectible cars, to keep running in a dystopian future of always-online electric appliances.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Some good pictures of Challenger 2 tanks on manoeuvre in Ukraine: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/28/2160646/-Ukraine-Update-Western-tanks-are-in-Ukraine-but-how-they-will-be-used-is-an-open-question

    The UK government has delivered on its promises in remarkably quick time. Described by the Ukrainians as a "true friend of Ukraine".

    I know it’s been said numerous times, but this looks again like a turning point in the war. The enemy has thrown so much, in terms of men and materiel, at the conflict, yet has failed to gain any significant territory over the winter.

    The juxtaposition of numerous Western tanks arriving in Ukraine, as the Russians are pulling 60-year-old T-55 tanks out of museums for recommissioning, is very stark.

    A T-55 vs a Challenger 2, is the enemy bringing a knife to a gun fight.
    I'm a bit nervous about the Challenger 2's. A few 152mm artillery shells and ATGM strikes could quickly knock most of the 14 sent out.

    Meanwhile France is doubling its supply of 155mm artillery shells to 2,000. A month. The lack of artillery ammunition is a huge problem.
    A huge problem for both sides, given the apparent reduction in artillery usage by both sides. That is, unless one or both sides are keeping a lot of ammunition in reserve for a push.

    Russia's problem is that given time, the west can easily outstrip Russian production, whilst just buffing our nails - given the political will. Russia's economy was relatively small *before* the war, and even going to a WW2-style footing and devoting 50% of their economy to the war effort will do little to change that. Especially with sanctions biting.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish results will be fascinating. I expect movement against both parties of government, made more entertaining that the SNP will blame the Tories and vice versa. So it should be a good election for Labour and the LibDems, but the problem comes in seats like my own where the local Tory is an arse but his only viable opponent is the SNP.

    Do you vote SNP in protest at the disastrous policies of the Tory government impacting on local farming, fishing and energy interests? Or vote Tory in protest at the disastrous policies of the SNP government impacting local energy interests and services?

    Or will the Boundary Review actually go through - in which case I will be in Aberdeenshire Central which is mostly the old Gordon seat. This was held by Malcolm Bruce of my own party until 2015, though LD votes have dissipated a lot since then.

    So, much to play for and the new constituencies could shake a load of things up...

    I hadn't realised that the new boundaries were still not in force. This is beyond ridiculous. Atm I am in Dundee West and would probably vote Labour in the vain hope they can recover the seat. If they go through I will be in the new Tayside North where the Tories will clearly be the strongest challenger.
    Final recommendations are due by 1st July and will presumably be approved by Parliament in the autumn. I don't think there's a real rush because Sunak ain't calling an election before then.
    IIRC the new boundaries don’t now need a vote in Parliament, with the legislation already passed. This was to stop the MPs voting them down again, after the debacle last time. The old boundaries have been in place since 2010, based on population numbers from 2005 or 2006.
    No, the new boundaries are not based on population numbers. As part of the Cameron/Osborne gerrymandering programme (that cost them the EU referendum and both their careers), seats are based on the numbers of registered voters.
    So biased towards elderly house-owners and Tory voters. Which will make the existential crisis of the UK state even worse.
    Biased towards actual voters. No vote, no voice...
    What was the turnout in central Liverpool seats, such as Bootle
    A pedant notes: Central Merseyside. Bootle is not in Liverpool.

This discussion has been closed.