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So what will now happen in Scotland at the general election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    Shut that door, you stupid Tory bastard.

    As Paul O'Grady didn't say.


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,416

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Depends on the chargers on site

    Our place has 2 chargers

    We looked at adding 6 but the price was prohibitive.

    When the price of installation comes down we will add more.

    New factories and businesses they can add when building, but retrofitting is an issue.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
  • If you love Ukraine and want them to win then you need to condemn the GOP and hope the Dems win everything.

    President Zelensky has conceded that a political shift in Washington could undermine western military support for Ukraine and leave it at risk of defeat.

    The Ukrainian president believes that his country’s long-term survival depends on enduring military support, especially from the United States. Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, his expected Republican rival for the White House next year, have questioned the amount being sent to Ukraine.

    Washington says it has sent about $30 billion in military aid, a figure described as unprecedented by Antony Blinken, the secretary of state. This month the Biden administration announced a further $400 million package including more ammunition and armoured vehicles that can lay bridges.

    “The United States really understands that if they stop helping us we will not win,” Zelensky told the Associated Press. The news agency said in its interview that Zelensky worried the war “could be impacted by shifting political forces in Washington”, but there was no elaboration.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-biden-putin-ukraine-war-usa-weapons-bakhmut-g7b3tgmlt
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,416

    People charging EVs in their drives has made my job more dangerous

    In the dark, with a big bundle of mail and a parcel, it can be tricky to see the charging cables - which are often between the pavement and the front door

    Are you no longer in the picturesque, Daemonesque, village of Aldbourne ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    Further proof the monarchy isn't that popular anymore.

    Olaf Scholz is likely to miss the state banquet even though his public diary is clear

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/king-charles-germany-first-state-visit-queen-camilla-qqr8hht0k

    Things have come to a pretty pass when a Hanoverian king is no longer popular in Germany.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842

    I want a car that will take me from the Mediterranean to a channel port on just one refuel. My Toyota does that with ease

    I want a teleporter so I don't have to drive at all. But hey.
  • Further proof the monarchy isn't that popular anymore.

    Olaf Scholz is likely to miss the state banquet even though his public diary is clear

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/king-charles-germany-first-state-visit-queen-camilla-qqr8hht0k

    Things have come to a pretty pass when a Hanoverian king is no longer popular in Germany.
    Indeed, the King is an international embarrassment.

    The fountain pen the King will use to sign the guest book at the presidential residence has been “repeatedly checked” for reliability, following his irritable outburst at a malfunctioning pen after he was proclaimed monarch last autumn. “Our pen has never failed,” Kai Baldow, head of protocol in the president’s office, told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219
    edited March 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    Mr. Alex, has Iran's revolts calmed down of late?

    I know they're allies of Armenia, but given Israel and Turkey seem on Azerbaijan side and Russia (also an Armenian ally) has other things on their plate, surely it'd just be a repeat of last time when Azerbaijan beat Armenia?

    Truly no idea. I just skim a few sites each week on the Middle East/Caucasus. There's been little news on the Iranian protest, I imagine its been squashed.

    On Armenia, the Azeris have been pushing back against the Russian peace keepers and soldiers are still dying.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Cookie said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
    I've had ebikes for about 6 years and all my local travel is on it. I do about 2k miles a year on it and it is great to keep fit on. Avoid the budget ones.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Shut that door, you stupid Tory bastard.

    As Paul O'Grady didn't say.


    Well you are assuming it wasn´t deliberate, after all...

    Which living person do you most despise, and why?
    !Every single stinking member of this lying, self-serving government."

    -the late lamented, Paul/Lily
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Stocky said:

    The range of my Toyota hybrid is 570 miles - a bit less in the winter. I'd argue that it has less impact on the environment than any EV

    Whatever type of car you buy the environment is taking a hit with the manufacture of the vehicle - no free lunch.

    Is the best thing of all the keep your existing car for longer, whatever type it is?
    Depends on whether you are referring to the global or local environment. An old diesel driving through a built up area is not environmental from a local perspective by any means or definition.

    On a global scale, there are petrolheads and reactionaries who argue that the mining of elements for batteries has the same impact or worse than the continued use of fossil fuel powered vehicles. This is tenuous in the extreme. the corollary of this weak argument is that we should forget making EVs. This would mean that the advances in battery technology that will inevitably come would be held up which would be madness.

    Buy a Tesla
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I am not sure I agree with "What is very clear is that any hopes labour have of returning to power rely on a very strong performance in Scotland".

    Unless the Tories + DUP have majority after the next GE Labour will return to power imo. Clearly, success for Labour in Scotland makes that easier but it's not a prerequisite.

    I do think that a dozen or so Scottish seats could easily be the difference between largest party and overall majority as the polls tighten a bit.
    As the election draws closer, if we are to see massive swingback to the Conservatives as highlighted and expected on these very pages, I don't see why that wouldn't also be the case for the incumbent SNP.

    As it stands Labour are 10 to 15 points ahead of the Conservatives nationally (and we are expecting that to mostly drift back by election day). In Scotland Labour are 10 to 15 points adrift of the SNP (why are we not expecting that to return to its usual 20 to 25 point margin?).

    Labour are doomed, doomed I say!
    Swingback, if it helps Yousless at all, would come in the Scottish Parliamentary elections, not the General.
    You’ve all set the bar so low for him that he’s going to clear it and look like a success.
    Not a chance. He will fail in ways we can't even imagine yet. Starting with the appointment of Shona Robinson, Nicola's best mate, as deputy. I searched for her achievements on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_Robison Unfortunately, achievements was a missing word!
    Surely then the time is ripe for the high achievers of your party of choice to sweep to power?
    Not for three years, though ...
    If the predictions of Humza’s tenure not outlasting a Trussian lettuce don’t come to pass, that’s just three more years for Ross & co to put their obvious qualities on display.
    That reminds me - is Mr Ross leaving Holyrood at the next election, or is my memory failing me? I am sure I recall some announcement, but can't confirm it. So I may be quite wrong, in which case apols.
    He announced he was leaving Westminster at the next GE.
    Thanks - that's it.
    That means a new candidate for Moray presumably? Luckily a large pool of achievers to choose from.
    Hmm, fisherfolk and farmers not too happy with Brexit either. But the latter not exactly SKS voters, and it was the previous leader of the LDs who liked to be filmed in front of farm animals. Not sure that Mr C-H has quite the same knack.
    "Fisherfolk"? This conjures an image of olde worlde types for whom the 19th century is dangerously modern. :smile: Nice alliteration though.
    Non-gendered*. Also means the family members, comer to think of it, so works well in political terms.

    Edit: like e.g. convenor instead of chairperson.

    Also: avoids confusion with the people with rod and line.
    Do you get many (any?) women on trawlers? Your points about family and anglers are good though (though again in my mind conjures up images of 18th century communities).
    I don't have a better word, mind.

    EDIT: I rather like 'convenor', though. 'Chairperson' always sounded horribly clunky. (And irritation with Chairman/Chair/Chairperson goes back at least to the 70s. I can remember my grandfather, somewhat implausibly, claiming that the 'man' in chairman referred not to a male human but was short for 'manifesto'. I was sceptical then and remain so now.)
    It's not just trawlers (on which a lot of thew workforce is non-UK). Inshore fishijng is a very important industry. No idea of the gender balance though.

    Plenty of small towns used to have a "fishertown" wit distinct architecture and location - Berwick, Nairn, Cromarty spring to mind (and Wick, but that was specially developed - a fine sight to visit).
    Good morning

    My Scottish family are all 'fisherfolk' or related to 'fisherfolk' and if you go back far enough the wives used to carry their menfolk onto their boats to keep their feet dry

    Also in Lossiemouth there was the terrible Stotfield disaster when the wives watched the menfolk sail from the beach then a dramatic turn for the worst in the weather with the ferocity of the storm overwhelming the three boats with all 21 men and youths drowned, leaving only women, young children and the elderly in Stotfield

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stotfield_fishing_disaster#
    And would they have used the word 'fisherfolk'?
    I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm genuinely interested.
    They certainly did in Arbroath where my wife's family was from. The fisherfolk lived in the fit o' the toon, basically near the harbour. It was a very closely related community. A fisherman's wife not only had to carry their men to the boats but did most of the gutting of the fish as well. It was a bloody hard life for someone who had not been brought up on it which led the men to choose women from inside the community.

    Quite weirdly in Arbroath the fit o' the toon always voted conservative until my late father in law stood for Labour. All voters that day were greeted by name by his gran who sat in front of the polling booth with her knitting and asked, "you'll be voting for my grandson?"
    Would there be much call for carrying the men to the boats in ports (like Arbroath) with harbours?
    I think the small boats were mainly launched from Auchmithy, which is a couple of miles to the north of Arbroath and has a beach. I suspect harbour dues had something to do with this....

    In contrast, in Anstruther, our office had a brilliant picture of the harbour from the 1930s where there were well over 100 small boats in the harbour so you could easily have walked from one side of the harbour to the other without getting your feet wet.
    The same was often said of Stornoway in its pomp.
    Not that it's of any relevance, but I have very happy memories of a fish and chip supper on Stornoway harbour in August 1992, watching curious seals bob up here and there in the water and evading the attentions of massive seagulls. My last holiday with my mum and dad at the age of 17, island hopping down the Hebrides. (They didn't die or anything, I just went on my own holidays after that).
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
    It would be the charging network. Tell him to buy a Tesla 3. They have come down in price and teh network is outstanding
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Emerald said:

    Read this at lewrockwell.com

    Governance by artificial intelligence: the ultimate unaccountable tyranny

    It’s no secret that globalist institutions are obsessed with Artificial Intelligence as some kind of technological prophecy. They treat it as if it is almost supernatural in its potential and often argue that every meaningful industrial and social innovation in the near future will owe its existence to AI. The World Economic Forum cites AI as the singular key to the rise of what they call the “Fourth Industrial Revolution.” In their view, there can be no human progress without the influence of AI algorithms, making human input almost obsolete.

    This delusion is often promoted by globalist propagandists.  For example, take a look at the summarized vision of WEF member Yuval Harari, who actually believes that AI has creative ability that will replace human imagination and innovation.  Not only that, but Harari has consistently argued in the past that AI will run the world much better than human beings ever could.

    AI sounds like a nightmare.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    In American EV/ICE discussions, there is a curious number of people who need a pickup truck that can tow 2 tons and drive 800 miles non-stop in 8 feet of snow, in -50c weather. Then drive back. Immediately.

    Uphill both ways, of course.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219

    Cookie said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
    I've had ebikes for about 6 years and all my local travel is on it. I do about 2k miles a year on it and it is great to keep fit on. Avoid the budget ones.
    You know what - you're are making me consider this.

    Two children - just past their driving test = competition for our cars. Maybe I'll look at an ebike rather than getting a third car.

    Any brands to recommend?
  • Taz said:

    People charging EVs in their drives has made my job more dangerous

    In the dark, with a big bundle of mail and a parcel, it can be tricky to see the charging cables - which are often between the pavement and the front door

    Are you no longer in the picturesque, Daemonesque, village of Aldbourne ?
    No. My old route was one of the ones got rid of to make efficiency savings

    Which means I now have a route in Marlborough with over 300 more houses than the old one

    I walk the same distance as before, but I don't have to climb as much now

    I had to train a guy who's been a postie for twelve years on the part of my route that had about 250 stairs on one street (called Kandahar), and another street with about 80 yard sloping front gardens, with few shared paths

    He handed in his notice at the end of the shift
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    My average miles travelled is under 20, but that disguises the spread.

    About half my days are zero, about 40% are between zero and 10. But most of the rest are 100+, very often 200+. So for an EV I need that 10% to be sufficiently catered for that I don't need to worry about it.
  • Shut that door, you stupid Tory bastard.

    As Paul O'Grady didn't say.


    Just watched the clip.

    Raab really is a bellend.

    A segue on wokery?

    What the actual fucking fuck?
  • These salty tears are so good.

    The Spain captain Rodri described Scotland’s style as “rubbish” after his side’s 2-0 defeat at Hampden Park.

    The 26-year-old criticised Steve Clarke’s team at full-time after Manchester United’s Scott McTominay had scored twice in the Euro 2024 qualifier to put them top of group A after two games.

    “It’s the way they play, but for me it’s rubbish, always wasting time, provoking you, always they fall. For me, this is not football. The referee has to take [act] on this, but he says nothing,” the Manchester City midfielder said.

    “We want to go for duels, for battles — we always fight, but this is not about fighting. It’s about wasting time — four, five players on the floor, but this depends on the referee, not on us.

    “It is what it is. They have their weapons, we have our weapons, and we will learn for next time.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rodri-scotland-are-rubbish-they-just-waste-time-and-fall-on-floor-293qqkws8
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
    It would be the charging network. Tell him to buy a Tesla 3. They have come down in price and teh network is outstanding
    He's wealthy - he may well consider this. But for me the main - and possibly only - thing that stops me from buying an EV is the initial purchase price. I - and many other no doubt - need this to be equal to (or very close to) an equivalent petrol car.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,416

    Taz said:

    People charging EVs in their drives has made my job more dangerous

    In the dark, with a big bundle of mail and a parcel, it can be tricky to see the charging cables - which are often between the pavement and the front door

    Are you no longer in the picturesque, Daemonesque, village of Aldbourne ?
    No. My old route was one of the ones got rid of to make efficiency savings

    Which means I now have a route in Marlborough with over 300 more houses than the old one

    I walk the same distance as before, but I don't have to climb as much now

    I had to train a guy who's been a postie for twelve years on the part of my route that had about 250 stairs on one street (called Kandahar), and another street with about 80 yard sloping front gardens, with few shared paths

    He handed in his notice at the end of the shift
    I can't imagine that would be safe in icy weather either. Don't blame him.

    I stayed in Marlborough a couple of times on visits to Aldbourne. Very nice place.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    I regularly drive 185 miles to the Isle of Wight in mine. I suppose it depends what you mean by local.
    Not all have that range though.
    In which case don't buy one of those unless it doesn't matter. My belief is that range, charging time and charging networks will all be sorted in less than a decade. Then all the late adopters will be boasting about how wonderful their new EV is.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299
    Taz said:

    I want a car that will take me from the Mediterranean to a channel port on just one refuel. My Toyota does that with ease

    I think a fair few people need to overcome their concern about being able to recharge on long journeys.
    London to Mersault is perfectly practical in an EV. As you say, more request stops - but you don’t try and drop the charge to 10% and charge back to 100% each time.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,416

    Cookie said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
    I've had ebikes for about 6 years and all my local travel is on it. I do about 2k miles a year on it and it is great to keep fit on. Avoid the budget ones.
    What do you get in terms of mileage out of a full charge Mike ?

    These bikes the electric only cuts in when you go uphill, is that the case ?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
    It would be the charging network. Tell him to buy a Tesla 3. They have come down in price and teh network is outstanding
    He's wealthy - he may well consider this. But for me the main - and possibly only - thing that stops me from buying an EV is the initial purchase price. I - and many other no doubt - need this to be equal to (or very close to) an equivalent petrol car.
    Agreed. It will happen though
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    My average miles travelled is under 20, but that disguises the spread.

    About half my days are zero, about 40% are between zero and 10. But most of the rest are 100+, very often 200+. So for an EV I need that 10% to be sufficiently catered for that I don't need to worry about it.
    You are Driver, though.
    The majority of us are Boring Commuter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Shut that door, you stupid Tory bastard.

    As Paul O'Grady didn't say.


    Just watched the clip.

    Raab really is a bellend.

    A segue on wokery?

    What the actual fucking fuck?
    They all look the same to him ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    This critique of AI is quite typical, and wrong. The underlying assumption is that ‘only’ humans can be ‘really’ intelligent so any other intelligence isn’t ‘real’. And that’s it
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
    It would be the charging network. Tell him to buy a Tesla 3. They have come down in price and teh network is outstanding
    The difference between the Tesla charging network and the other systems is so big that it brings to mind my Gamelin Hypothesis.

    Either Elon Musk has infiltrated all the charging companies to make them as desperately shit as possible. Or they all hate having customers giving them money.

    The Tesla setup is “just works”.
  • Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    It's often said that the convenience of home charging an EV rather than the tediousness of petrol/diesel garage fill-ups is a big plus but is it really?

    With a trad car I just pull in my drive and walk away - not sure I'd like faffing with a lead and plug every time I get home, especially if it's cold or rainy. Multiply that every day and maybe it's worse than a weekly trudge to a garage?

    I charge mine overnight once a fortnight or so, and keep the lead in the boot. It really is no hassle at all.
    Oh I see. Thanks. I assumed it got plugged in every time you got home. An advantage there then.
    The big advantage of an EV over an ICE car is that you fill it up overnight. But if you don't need to, don't. I've just plugged my Tesla in and I genuinely can't remember the last time I charged it. Weekend before last maybe.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Lily Savage - Never broadcast - for reasons which will become swiftly evident: NSFW!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_RPpicb6ArY

    While I know many are loath to speak ill of the dead it’s striking how many from so many walks of life want to speak well of Paul.

    A person who hates the Tories and loves dogs has got a lot of bases covered. But he does seem to have been a lovely guy - and also extremely funny. RIP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Leon said:

    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    This critique of AI is quite typical, and wrong. The underlying assumption is that ‘only’ humans can be ‘really’ intelligent so any other intelligence isn’t ‘real’. And that’s it
    The larger mistake is to assume there's a clear line between 'automation' and 'autonomy'. And that it matters very much exactly where that line is.
    From the point of view of potential existential risks, it probably doesn't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I cycle around the rural roads in this area. But hardly anyone else does because they're full of massive lorries. Every time one passes you, you have to hope the lorry driver has spotted you.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    Stocky said:

    Cookie said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
    I've had ebikes for about 6 years and all my local travel is on it. I do about 2k miles a year on it and it is great to keep fit on. Avoid the budget ones.
    You know what - you're are making me consider this.

    Two children - just past their driving test = competition for our cars. Maybe I'll look at an ebike rather than getting a third car.

    Any brands to recommend?
    Stocky said:

    Cookie said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Do you have an ebike Mike? What's your experience with them?

    I like ebikes in principal - not only for the environment and for cost, but in an urban area they are likely to be the quickest option for most journeys - but in practice I'm struggling to think of many instances recently when I'd have used one - typically when I'm driving I'm either transporting something heavy (cat litter, a lot of shopping) or a child.
    I've had ebikes for about 6 years and all my local travel is on it. I do about 2k miles a year on it and it is great to keep fit on. Avoid the budget ones.
    You know what - you're are making me consider this.

    Two children - just past their driving test = competition for our cars. Maybe I'll look at an ebike rather than getting a third car.

    Any brands to recommend?
    I enjoyed riding mine until my balance went.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited March 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Driver said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    My average miles travelled is under 20, but that disguises the spread.

    About half my days are zero, about 40% are between zero and 10. But most of the rest are 100+, very often 200+. So for an EV I need that 10% to be sufficiently catered for that I don't need to worry about it.
    You are Driver, though.
    The majority of us are Boring Commuter.
    True, but if I were Boring Commuter I'd be doing my commuting on an ebike (not really an option last time I worked in an office) so it wouldn't affect my driving miles.

    But that slightly distracts from the point - most people are going to choose their vehicle based on the most extreme thing that they are ever going to need it for. So if they never do more than 50 miles a day and never park away from home overnight then the current EV offerings are totally fine, they get a charging point at home and never have to worry beyond that.
  • Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    No, which is why the model for EV charging will be a charger at every parking place, so that you can charge when you park to go shopping, or the cinema, or whatever, rather than a dedicated charging station.

    All those fuel stations will disappear.
    Exactly; it takes time for a paradigm shift to bed in. Until then, people can't help but imagine new things as newfangled versions of old things. I'm sure people had the same difficulties as cars replaced horse-drawn carriages.
    Nope because the car revolutionised travel. Electric cars don't. They only really work for local runs .
    There is an issue with our perception of what our car is for. For most, it does a small distance daily (work commutes, plus local shopping, school etc). And then once in a while you need to do a long trip and the electric car range of say 150 miles becomes a huge issue (unless you can charge it in around 20 minutes while having coffee, and that depends on charging locations being free and working etc).

    Genuinly it might be best to consider a more limited electric car for most of your use, and then hire a better range for the holiday, or the long distance trip.

    Its not what we are used to, but in the 70's we didn't recycle anything. now we recycle most of our waste.
    Many people already choose to buy small city runabout cars, but I think that the battery technology is developing fast enough that most people won't be forced by range considerations to make such a tradeoff.

    We drove back from Rosslare recently, which is 270km over nearly four hours. We had one brief stop. Most EVs can do that journey with no issues already, and the technology is only getting better. Any longer a journey and you'd want to stay taking a longer break, perhaps for a meal, so you have time for charging as well.

    Lots of cars advertised with ranges >500km, even though the range at speeds of 100kph will be less, I'm just not seeing range as that much of an issue.
    Yes, I think I can count on the fingers of one finger the occasions on which I have driven more than 250 miles without stopping for a meal break.
    I'd prefer my car to have the ability to do so, obviously. But the need to take a half hour break every 250 miles isn't going to impact me enough to change my choice.
    How often might you drive 150 miles, and not be able to charge your car at the other end?
    Not very often, once you have an EV !
    It’s an issue for a lot of people who have taken an EV as a company car. My sister-in-law for example. She lives near Newcastle and often visits a site just south of Leeds. It’s right on the limit for range, and while it just about worked in the summer, it couldn’t quite make it in the winter and she needed to find somewhere to stop for a few minutes. She’s about £10k a year better off in BIK though, compared to the diesel she was running before.
    Sure, but that probably not "a lot" of people - rather a small minority of drivers.
    The UK daily average is around 20 miles travelled, and falling.
    https://www.bymiles.co.uk/insure/magazine/mot-data-research-and-analysis/
    People with company cars though, are likely to drive a lot more than the average, and to regularly travel on business by car.
    Won't company cars get charged at work?
    Some offices will have some chargers, but often slow chargers and not enough for everyone. I have heard stories of people arriving at the office very early to try and ‘bag’ a charger for the day.
    There is only one EV worth buying IMO. Tesla. I now have had one for over 2 years. It is a dual motor, and while it doesn't go as far as they claim (unless you drive it like a granny) approximately 300 miles is possible on a single charge, and I have driven all over the country with zero issues. The charging network is excellent and I have never had to wait, and it generally takes about 25 mins for an 80% charge.

    Other people I know with other expensive EVs are no so happy. They don't go as far and the general charging network (the non-Tesla one which I have never had to use) is pretty crap

    And before anyone claims £5 I am not Elon Musk
    My friend bought an EV Audi through his ltd company (some tax break he said) a year or so ago. He was very chuffed with it at the time but I asked him the other day how it is going and he said "put it this way, it will be a petrol next time". Not sure what his main issue is - I suspect range.
    Likely. VAG drivetrain is inefficient so it burns a lot of power per mile. Then you're stuck on the public charger network which is both slow and expensive. Tesla charging currently half the cost of most other networks and 2-4x quicker.

    But hey, if a mahoosive ugly grill is more important to you, get an Etron instead.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    British intelligence reports that the Ukrainian Defense Forces appear to have driven the Wagner PMC mercenaries off the 0506 road — near one of Bakhmut's key supply lines.
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1641053330104303618

    Update from Bakhmut from Ukrainian "Bakhmut Demon" on the morning of 29 March:
    "Reporting.
    Serious battles continue for Ivanivske and on the outskirts of Bakhmut. Firefights and artillery shelling. While I’d love to tell you something that would blow you away, the battle for Bakhmut is now a positional meat grinder. Medics are our heroes. Assault actions of the Russians have no success. The tactical and strategic situation has not changed at all, only more destruction.
    No one will leave Bakhmut."

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1640995583618891777

    Not quite sure what's meant by that last line. Perhaps DuraAce can elucidate ?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219
    edited March 2023
    I recall Bromley being mentioned on here a while back as a top brand for EBikes. I've just checked out the prices.

    Any others?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    Stocky said:

    I recall Bromley being mentioned on here a while back as a top brand for EBikes. Any others?

    LaFree…. Dutch.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,842
    Nigelb said:

    British intelligence reports that the Ukrainian Defense Forces appear to have driven the Wagner PMC mercenaries off the 0506 road — near one of Bakhmut's key supply lines.
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1641053330104303618

    Update from Bakhmut from Ukrainian "Bakhmut Demon" on the morning of 29 March:
    "Reporting.
    Serious battles continue for Ivanivske and on the outskirts of Bakhmut. Firefights and artillery shelling. While I’d love to tell you something that would blow you away, the battle for Bakhmut is now a positional meat grinder. Medics are our heroes. Assault actions of the Russians have no success. The tactical and strategic situation has not changed at all, only more destruction.
    No one will leave Bakhmut."

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1640995583618891777

    Not quite sure what's meant by that last line. Perhaps DuraAce can elucidate ?

    On the thread it is said: "FYI - the last one should be "No one is leaving Bakhmut behind" or "We will not be abandoning Bakhmut." "
  • If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
  • The Commons debating the illegal Illegal Migration bill again. A line of Tory MPs who both full-throatedly support the proposal to detain refugees and then deport them, and aggressively denounce the idea that they should be detained in their constituency.

    I know that we don't claim that people such as Gullis or Edward Leigh have a brain, but even so, this is properly dumb.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I cycle around the rural roads in this area. But hardly anyone else does because they're full of massive lorries. Every time one passes you, you have to hope the lorry driver has spotted you.
    It will be Interesting to see what will happen in London.

    AFAIK they are roughly promoting walking for <1 mile and cycling for <5 miles.

    I'd predict a fairly easy 10% modal share in areas where safe cycle tracks get built out. That seems to be the record so far. Still small, but it only takes a few % to have an effect on congestion.

    On the other one, I think that LTNs will turn out to be a massive fuss over almost nothing, as so few will end up paying after a couple of years. I think the Tories are making a big mistake trying to use it as a wedge issue.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,660
    edited March 2023
    ...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
    Cheap substandard lithium batteries do not mix well with the bumps and knocks a bicycle will incur going over potholes, etc.

    I think there's scope for higher safety standards in e-bikes that would probably knock out some of the cheaper brands.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Republicans quickly realizing DeSantis won't beat Trump and looking round for alternatives:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/03/29/trump-desantis-christie-scott-2024-gop-presidential/

    It is 2016 all over again. They keep believing there will be someone out there who can give the base Trumpism without the baggage. What they don't appreciate is that their base is so insane it is that the baggage is the appeal.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    Stocky said:

    I recall Bromley being mentioned on here a while back as a top brand for EBikes. I've just checked out the prices.

    Any others?

    If I were going for one, it would probably be an E-Brompton.

    My current hybrid bike has one of those motor-inside-the-seatpost boost kits on it which, which is very not=powerful, but very useable.

    There are now 57 varieties of everything, including a lot of places where you can hire or borrow something for a month to see if it suits you.

    A weird example of not-joined-up policy is that Milton Keynes funded e-cargo bikes and trailers for local businesses, and another bit of the Council has installed some bollards that the trailers they supplied won't fit through, where they do fit through the standard filtering they have been using since 197x .
  • I for one don't think my kids will be safe at school until every teacher carries one at all times.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    These salty tears are so good.

    The Spain captain Rodri described Scotland’s style as “rubbish” after his side’s 2-0 defeat at Hampden Park.

    The 26-year-old criticised Steve Clarke’s team at full-time after Manchester United’s Scott McTominay had scored twice in the Euro 2024 qualifier to put them top of group A after two games.

    “It’s the way they play, but for me it’s rubbish, always wasting time, provoking you, always they fall. For me, this is not football. The referee has to take [act] on this, but he says nothing,” the Manchester City midfielder said.

    “We want to go for duels, for battles — we always fight, but this is not about fighting. It’s about wasting time — four, five players on the floor, but this depends on the referee, not on us.

    “It is what it is. They have their weapons, we have our weapons, and we will learn for next time.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rodri-scotland-are-rubbish-they-just-waste-time-and-fall-on-floor-293qqkws8

    They do need to clamp down on time wasting, surrounding the referee and exaggeration. It ruins the game.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    This critique of AI is quite typical, and wrong. The underlying assumption is that ‘only’ humans can be ‘really’ intelligent so any other intelligence isn’t ‘real’. And that’s it
    The larger mistake is to assume there's a clear line between 'automation' and 'autonomy'. And that it matters very much exactly where that line is.
    From the point of view of potential existential risks, it probably doesn't.
    Indeed. This is where Science bumps up against Philosophy, and you need as much of the latter as the former

    eg Is a virus alive, conscious, sentient? A lot of scientists would say No, No and No. Yet a virus can exhibit levels of apparent autonomy and "purpose" that, while they may be utterly inhuman and alien, are beyond our control, and can do enormous damage to humanity. As we have seen

    AGI might end up more like a virus than a man. A virus with superintelligence

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.




    Good luck getting past that in a wheelchair, and not tripping if blind or even at night.

    ETA no pavement on the other side of the road.
    Who on Earth signed off that terrible design? How much more difficult would it have been, to stagger the two units by a few feet, and move the consumer end right to the edge of the pavement?
    No idea, but it isn't joined up thinking and those type of mistakes are everywhere. There was one in Edinburgh all over twitter last week, but the current version of Edinburgh Council (Lab?) are remarkably inept.

    There's a huge issue around "we can't deal with any problems until the contracted design is built", even if the contracted design is crap, dangerous, or not compliant to guidelines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
    That probably the use of higher capacity unapproved batteries.
    Big problem in NY with delivery riders.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    WillG said:

    These salty tears are so good.

    The Spain captain Rodri described Scotland’s style as “rubbish” after his side’s 2-0 defeat at Hampden Park.

    The 26-year-old criticised Steve Clarke’s team at full-time after Manchester United’s Scott McTominay had scored twice in the Euro 2024 qualifier to put them top of group A after two games.

    “It’s the way they play, but for me it’s rubbish, always wasting time, provoking you, always they fall. For me, this is not football. The referee has to take [act] on this, but he says nothing,” the Manchester City midfielder said.

    “We want to go for duels, for battles — we always fight, but this is not about fighting. It’s about wasting time — four, five players on the floor, but this depends on the referee, not on us.

    “It is what it is. They have their weapons, we have our weapons, and we will learn for next time.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rodri-scotland-are-rubbish-they-just-waste-time-and-fall-on-floor-293qqkws8

    They do need to clamp down on time wasting, surrounding the referee and exaggeration. It ruins the game.
    Also, the sheer brass neck of the Spanish in complaining of cheating.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    MattW said:

    Stocky said:

    I recall Bromley being mentioned on here a while back as a top brand for EBikes. I've just checked out the prices.

    Any others?

    If I were going for one, it would probably be an E-Brompton.

    My current hybrid bike has one of those motor-inside-the-seatpost boost kits on it which, which is very not=powerful, but very useable.

    There are now 57 varieties of everything, including a lot of places where you can hire or borrow something for a month to see if it suits you.

    A weird example of not-joined-up policy is that Milton Keynes funded e-cargo bikes and trailers for local businesses, and another bit of the Council has installed some bollards that the trailers they supplied won't fit through, where they do fit through the standard filtering they have been using since 197x .
    The better the one you have, the less you are likely to want to leave it anywhere when you are out.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    This critique of AI is quite typical, and wrong. The underlying assumption is that ‘only’ humans can be ‘really’ intelligent so any other intelligence isn’t ‘real’. And that’s it
    The larger mistake is to assume there's a clear line between 'automation' and 'autonomy'. And that it matters very much exactly where that line is.
    From the point of view of potential existential risks, it probably doesn't.
    Indeed. This is where Science bumps up against Philosophy, and you need as much of the latter as the former

    eg Is a virus alive, conscious, sentient? A lot of scientists would say No, No and No. Yet a virus can exhibit levels of apparent autonomy and "purpose" that, while they may be utterly inhuman and alien, are beyond our control, and can do enormous damage to humanity. As we have seen

    AGI might end up more like a virus than a man. A virus with superintelligence

    TBH I envisage something more like the Q from that Star Trekking programme. Chaotic Neutral.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    Salford is trialling e-cargo bikes. They're quite good fun.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,299
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
    That probably the use of higher capacity unapproved batteries.
    Big problem in NY with delivery riders.
    IIRC, 97% of Li battery fires are in those with the latest, highest capacity.

    All the car makers (of vaguely any repute) use cells which are not quite the highest performance design, for this reason.
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
    Well yes because even if a day is a rainday it may only rain for 3 to 4 hours. Say manchester has 150 raindays. If you are out and about the same time each day there maybe only about 20 days a year you are actually caught in rain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Here's a nice paradox

    Guess the identity of the one single US President, in recent history, who has been entirely dismissive about UFOs/aliens. When all the others have made suggestive remarks, hints, policy decisions, implying that something IS out there

    Yes, it's Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one who has said Nah, it's all bollocks
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55
    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.




    Good luck getting past that in a wheelchair, and not tripping if blind or even at night.

    ETA no pavement on the other side of the road.
    Who on Earth signed off that terrible design? How much more difficult would it have been, to stagger the two units by a few feet, and move the consumer end right to the edge of the pavement?
    No idea, but it isn't joined up thinking and those type of mistakes are everywhere. There was one in Edinburgh all over twitter last week, but the current version of Edinburgh Council (Lab?) are remarkably inept.

    There's a huge issue around "we can't deal with any problems until the contracted design is built", even if the contracted design is crap, dangerous, or not compliant to guidelines.
    Edinjburgh is indeed Labour - but minority so having its chain yanked by Tory/LD unionists and its budget scrapped in favour of the tighter LD one. Not sure how that affects bike politics, though, as the Tory budget was also rejected.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23343137.edinburgh-council-leader-told-resign-voting-libdem-budget/
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Here's a nice paradox

    Guess the identity of the one single US President, in recent history, who has been entirely dismissive about UFOs/aliens. When all the others have made suggestive remarks, hints, policy decisions, implying that something IS out there

    Yes, it's Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one who has said Nah, it's all bollocks

    MRDA
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    British intelligence reports that the Ukrainian Defense Forces appear to have driven the Wagner PMC mercenaries off the 0506 road — near one of Bakhmut's key supply lines.
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1641053330104303618

    Update from Bakhmut from Ukrainian "Bakhmut Demon" on the morning of 29 March:
    "Reporting.
    Serious battles continue for Ivanivske and on the outskirts of Bakhmut. Firefights and artillery shelling. While I’d love to tell you something that would blow you away, the battle for Bakhmut is now a positional meat grinder. Medics are our heroes. Assault actions of the Russians have no success. The tactical and strategic situation has not changed at all, only more destruction.
    No one will leave Bakhmut."

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1640995583618891777

    Not quite sure what's meant by that last line. Perhaps DuraAce can elucidate ?

    It doesn’t mean anything. There are videos on Telegram of people leaving Bakhmutlepool every day.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Cookie said:

    WillG said:

    These salty tears are so good.

    The Spain captain Rodri described Scotland’s style as “rubbish” after his side’s 2-0 defeat at Hampden Park.

    The 26-year-old criticised Steve Clarke’s team at full-time after Manchester United’s Scott McTominay had scored twice in the Euro 2024 qualifier to put them top of group A after two games.

    “It’s the way they play, but for me it’s rubbish, always wasting time, provoking you, always they fall. For me, this is not football. The referee has to take [act] on this, but he says nothing,” the Manchester City midfielder said.

    “We want to go for duels, for battles — we always fight, but this is not about fighting. It’s about wasting time — four, five players on the floor, but this depends on the referee, not on us.

    “It is what it is. They have their weapons, we have our weapons, and we will learn for next time.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rodri-scotland-are-rubbish-they-just-waste-time-and-fall-on-floor-293qqkws8

    They do need to clamp down on time wasting, surrounding the referee and exaggeration. It ruins the game.
    Also, the sheer brass neck of the Spanish in complaining of cheating.
    "Just because you're losing"...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192

    MattW said:

    For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.




    Lots of flattened or dented chgargers?
    It needs something strong enough either side seriously to damage any car driven by a wombat who hits it. No more patience any more.

    There was a weird one in Denmark Hill recently where a young mum drove her car into a cycle hangar and put her own baby in hospital in the accident. At 2:30pm in the afternoon.

    Cycle hangar had replaced a parking space which would have had an SUV or similar in it. And the locals are blaming the dangerous cycle hangar.

    https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/baby-hospitalised-in-collision-with-bike-hanger-that-council-was-warned-could-be-dangerous/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    British intelligence reports that the Ukrainian Defense Forces appear to have driven the Wagner PMC mercenaries off the 0506 road — near one of Bakhmut's key supply lines.
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1641053330104303618

    Update from Bakhmut from Ukrainian "Bakhmut Demon" on the morning of 29 March:
    "Reporting.
    Serious battles continue for Ivanivske and on the outskirts of Bakhmut. Firefights and artillery shelling. While I’d love to tell you something that would blow you away, the battle for Bakhmut is now a positional meat grinder. Medics are our heroes. Assault actions of the Russians have no success. The tactical and strategic situation has not changed at all, only more destruction.
    No one will leave Bakhmut."

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1640995583618891777

    Not quite sure what's meant by that last line. Perhaps DuraAce can elucidate ?

    It doesn’t mean anything. There are videos on Telegram of people leaving Bakhmutlepool every day.
    And yet it is still contested.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
    I moved to the Manchester area in mid August 1961. I’d visited occasionally over the previous year and thought the reputation for rain was overdone.
    However, after I started living and working there it rained for some part of every day for a month!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
    That probably the use of higher capacity unapproved batteries.
    Big problem in NY with delivery riders.
    There’s loads of dodgy Chinese brands of battery out there, as well as counterfeits of known brands. Our local version of trading standards seized a whole load of them a few weeks ago, containers full, many of which were destined for re-export. Always buy a known brand, and from a reputable shop.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,675
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.




    Good luck getting past that in a wheelchair, and not tripping if blind or even at night.

    ETA no pavement on the other side of the road.
    Who on Earth signed off that terrible design? How much more difficult would it have been, to stagger the two units by a few feet, and move the consumer end right to the edge of the pavement?
    No idea, but it isn't joined up thinking and those type of mistakes are everywhere. There was one in Edinburgh all over twitter last week, but the current version of Edinburgh Council (Lab?) are remarkably inept.

    There's a huge issue around "we can't deal with any problems until the contracted design is built", even if the contracted design is crap, dangerous, or not compliant to guidelines.
    Edinjburgh is indeed Labour - but minority so having its chain yanked by Tory/LD unionists and its budget scrapped in favour of the tighter LD one. Not sure how that affects bike politics, though, as the Tory budget was also rejected.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23343137.edinburgh-council-leader-told-resign-voting-libdem-budget/
    A lot of the projects in Edinburgh are funded by Sustrans (edit - or direct from SG), so immune (to an extent) from local politics.

    CCWEL and Meadows to George Street look good. Leith Walk is a disaster. Improvements coming in on Princes Street to avoid tram track falls.

    Just get the Dutch in to design it. Part of the reason for the design fails is because it's so half-hearted.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Riffing on that to say that Fort William used to be very popular with newlyweds. Every couple I knew who got married in the 1950s honeymooned in Fort William. Obviously this was before working class people were allowed to go abroad.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Just it isn't going to happen for people who aren't set up (helmet, hi-vis, waterproofs) or in any physical or mental condition to jump on a bike. Even an "e-bike". You are still facing the elements, the white vans and the black cabs (in London).

    It is fantasy. Just like "cafe culture" in the UK it ain't happening for the broad masses.

    And I cycle 30-40 miles a week in central London.
    I'm living in rainy West Cork. Over recent months about half of the weeks have had ~250% of average rain. It's been a wet winter and early spring.

    I've also been working regularly at a local hot-desking hub, and walking around town to find myself lunch. It's only rained once during these many lunch time ambulatory explorations.

    It really doesn't rain as often as people imagine. Loads of people cycle in other countries. With the right investment in segregated infrastructure they will do so in Britain and Ireland (excepting, perhaps, Galway, where it really does rain nearly all the time).
    You're right. I live in Manchester, which has a certain reputation for precipitation. A year ago, middle daughter started playing football on a Saturday morning. Over the past 12 months, it has only rained once between 10.30 and 11.30 on a Saturday morning in Sale.
    I moved to the Manchester area in mid August 1961. I’d visited occasionally over the previous year and thought the reputation for rain was overdone.
    However, after I started living and working there it rained for some part of every day for a month!
    "Some part of every day," isn't necessarily very much, unless you spend most of your day outside.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    For on Street Chargers we need to avoid this type of thing (London), which is diabolical. They need to be in the road between the parking spaces.




    Good luck getting past that in a wheelchair, and not tripping if blind or even at night.

    ETA no pavement on the other side of the road.
    Who on Earth signed off that terrible design? How much more difficult would it have been, to stagger the two units by a few feet, and move the consumer end right to the edge of the pavement?
    No idea, but it isn't joined up thinking and those type of mistakes are everywhere. There was one in Edinburgh all over twitter last week, but the current version of Edinburgh Council (Lab?) are remarkably inept.

    There's a huge issue around "we can't deal with any problems until the contracted design is built", even if the contracted design is crap, dangerous, or not compliant to guidelines.
    Edinjburgh is indeed Labour - but minority so having its chain yanked by Tory/LD unionists and its budget scrapped in favour of the tighter LD one. Not sure how that affects bike politics, though, as the Tory budget was also rejected.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/23343137.edinburgh-council-leader-told-resign-voting-libdem-budget/
    It goes back a long, long way. They had a design consultant over from NL in the noughties advising them how to build a safe tramway incorporating cycling and walking facilities, and nothing happened. Partly to do with short-termism and getting started before the committed finance evaporated - which is also a universal problem in UK.

    The current issue around chargers, pavement blocking, and how to deal with it is universal.

    One Scottish issue is with problems around no dashcam reporting portal due (I am told) to the prosecution route having to involve the Procurator Fiscal, and a lot of process. In Wales then England they realised the efficiency that could be gained by treating the reporting cammer as a witness not just when they were a victim, and the institutional setup seems more suitable.

    It's one that needs puzzling out.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,751

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.

    Analog (sic) film cameras are trendy right now, and CDs are still viable.

    Cassette tapes are more niche
    Not the mass market by a long way, despite the hipster interest in vinyl.

    Sure, ICE vehicles have some advantages still, particularly for rural areas. We have an ICE hybrid as well as an EV. Increasingly though EVs have the advantage. I think it will be my last ever ICE vehicle.

    Currently EVs are 3% of the UK car fleet, but by Dec 22 had 30% of new sales. This is being driven by demand, and is only heading one way. The manufacturers see this too, which is why so much of the new design and engineering is centered on them, with ICE vehicle increasingly neglected.

    There is an issue with any technological change of when to jump to the new tech, but as EV prices drop, practicality increases, and psychological barriers drop, it is only going one way.
    I largely agree. My reservation is how much the prices of EVs will drop. It's one of those things I've been waiting for for some time and doesn't appear to be happening...

    Largely because demand greatly exceeds supply, so manufacturers have no incentive to make cheaper models.
    That will change in the next 3-5 years, looking at the number of factories being built now and in planning.

    And both batteries and motors are steadily getting cheaper to make, alongside the increase in capacity.
    I will never have an electric car until they solve the charging issue ie having to wait to get to a charging point and. Then 40 mins for a half charge....I suspect I will have met my maker by then.
    You can do 10-80% in about 25 min on the latest chargers. To get to half should be a fraction of that - the charging is faster on an empty battery.
    Not what my pal tells me. They have had nightmares queuing and it's 40.mins min
    to charge his ev f pace
    Tbf that's about the same time I spend queuing at my local Costco yesterday for diesel.

    There's no way any EV charging station will be able to match the sheer throughput of energy that a 12 pump Costco can get into vehicles in a day though.
    Just as most people don't have filling stations at their home.

    If you want to help the environment switch to an ebike for all trips up to 30 miles

    I don’t think that’d be better than walking!

    I think an etrike might be better than an ebike for work
    In the Times today it says there is an e bike or scooter fire every two days in the Capital in 2023... bit dodgy imho
    Cheap substandard lithium batteries do not mix well with the bumps and knocks a bicycle will incur going over potholes, etc.

    I think there's scope for higher safety standards in e-bikes that would probably knock out some of the cheaper brands.
    Surely its been obvious for a long time that if Trump wants the nomination (and he does) he will get it.

    And - that if Trump runs, so will Biden.

    And - that Biden will beat Trump in the election.

    It's about as predictable as any election can be - save Macron winning re-election last time round.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    edited March 2023
    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Here's a nice paradox

    Guess the identity of the one single US President, in recent history, who has been entirely dismissive about UFOs/aliens. When all the others have made suggestive remarks, hints, policy decisions, implying that something IS out there

    Yes, it's Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, Trump is the only one who has said Nah, it's all bollocks

    MRDA
    Men's Roller Derby Association?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    On the other hand they don't get distracted by the likes of PB when their work is on the boring side!
    If it wasn’t for PB, it would definitely be something else! My work this week is a file server upgrade, and I can say definitively that watching terabytes of data copy from the old one to the new one, is like watching paint dry.
    Old server -> backup system -> new server imo, and you've probably already done step one. In the old days you could exploit disk mirroring but now everything is SANs all the way down.
  • Good afternoon

    It is very pleasing to see Charles and Camilla being welcomed in Berlin on their state visit

    This would not have happened under Johnson or Truss, but is further evidence of our closer friendship with Europe desired by Sunak
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,453

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    Hilarious that our pathetic Government is still so beholden to the EU that we were following their ban anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Emerald said:

    And more

    There is a big difference between cognitive automation and cognitive autonomy.  AI is purely automation; it will play the games it is programmed to play and will learn to play them well, but it will never have an epiphany one day and create a new and unique game from scratch unless it is coded to do so.  AI will never have fun playing this new game it made, or feel the joy of sharing that game with others, so why would it bother?  It will never seek to contribute to the world any more than it is pre-programmed to do.

    On the other hand they don't get distracted by the likes of PB when their work is on the boring side!
    If it wasn’t for PB, it would definitely be something else! My work this week is a file server upgrade, and I can say definitively that watching terabytes of data copy from the old one to the new one, is like watching paint dry.
    Old server -> backup system -> new server imo, and you've probably already done step one. In the old days you could exploit disk mirroring but now everything is SANs all the way down.
    Yes, with a fair bit of data cleansing along the way. No, the file server doesn’t need to contain six separate but identical copies of a 15Gb pst file from 2015. To make matters worse, the old file server is so old, that it has a single 100Mb Ethernet port - it’s painfully slow!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    Hilarious that our pathetic Government is still so beholden to the EU that we were following their ban anyway.
    This was Carrie’s Johnson’s idea to be seen as more green than the EU.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
    But IN YOUR FACE Torshavn, Bergen and Tromso.

    I do like a bit of sunshine. But order that list of cities by total yearly sunshine; there is a very inverse correlation between cities I would like to live in and amount of sunshine. I don't know whether that's just a human tendency to value what one has over what one could have or whether gloom and quality of life are both influenced by a third factor, or less probably, whether gloom promotes quality of life.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,453
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    It’s rather amusing, that the EU powers-that-be just thought the Germans and Italians were going to roll over and accept the death of their car industries in a decade’s time.
    And that despite "taking back control" our own policy is thrown into doubt by an EU change.
    Technology doesn’t simply spring into existence because of legislation, no matter how many politicians wish it were so. Governments would be better off working towards upgrading the power infrastructure, and encouraging/incentivising the build-out of an electric car charging network.

    There will come a tipping point, after which the change will happen organically and with the support of the people, rather than the people seeing the banning of cars as something done to them without their consent.
    The technology to make all cars fully EV is here. There is no reason at all that we can't meet the 2030 target, with one big exception - charging. It is the wild west, 40 different charging networks, each with their own way of taking payment (usually with a bespoke app), each with their own (lack of) maintenance and customer service arrangements.

    We will need both a fundamental change to planning regulations to get charge points installed everywhere, and regulation of the charging companies to bring about universality. This was managed with connectors where we have gone from 3 to 1, so it can be done if rules are imposed.

    The other consideration is whether we are happy to import all vehicles. What is left of the industry is now under threat from us going earlier than the EEA and our own wild west approach to business planning and regulations...
    EVs are the future. Buying ICE vehicles now is like buying analog film cameras 20 years ago. Soon the ICE for personal transport will be as obsolete as cassette tapes or CDs.
    They are the future because they are being imposed by legislation, and politics can change - it is not a natural evolution in technology like horse and carriage giving way to the motor car. In many ways the technology is worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,340
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
    But IN YOUR FACE Torshavn, Bergen and Tromso.

    I do like a bit of sunshine. But order that list of cities by total yearly sunshine; there is a very inverse correlation between cities I would like to live in and amount of sunshine. I don't know whether that's just a human tendency to value what one has over what one could have or whether gloom and quality of life are both influenced by a third factor, or less probably, whether gloom promotes quality of life.
    Yes, who would want to live in sunny Barcelona, Rome, Lisbon or Lugano, when you can live in the year round dishcloth greyness of Stockport?

    One noticeable oddity is the utter sunlessness of Lima, Peru: at 1230 hours it is even grimmer than Manchester, despite being near the equator and all that

    I can vouch for this. I've spent a fair bit of time in Lima and the climate is horrifically depressing. Grey sea fogs half the year, and cloudy mild dankness the other half
  • TOPPING said:

    Not going to happen. It is the same argument with the LTNs in London. "Get on your bike" says the council. "Thought of going by bike?" says TfL for a 15.4mile trip.

    Cycling is a religion to these people, they will seek to promote it and block other forms of transport regardless of suitability. But you're right, it's not going to happen. Too many people can't cycle for physical reasons, and it doesn't make sense for most in a country with choked roads, a gazillion pot holes and crap weather. The UK isn't the Netherlands.

    A big tell tale sign that the authorities should heed if they had the sense (unlikely) is the low use of scooters on our roads. Hugely popular in parts of Europe and much of Asia, they're incredibly cheap to run (150mpg+ in the latest models), low to zero pollution depending on the model, don't require any physical effort, slice through traffic, comfy to ride, can carry a useful amount of cargo and aren't affected by the elements nearly as much as a pedal bike.

    But you almost never see them on British roads, outside of food delivery in inner cities. If people can't be convinced to ride scooters, what chance do pedal bikes have? Anything other than cars are just going to be a niche in the UK.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
    But IN YOUR FACE Torshavn, Bergen and Tromso.

    I do like a bit of sunshine. But order that list of cities by total yearly sunshine; there is a very inverse correlation between cities I would like to live in and amount of sunshine. I don't know whether that's just a human tendency to value what one has over what one could have or whether gloom and quality of life are both influenced by a third factor, or less probably, whether gloom promotes quality of life.
    Although Tromso is (understandably obviously) more seasonal in its sunshine hours... Personally bright sunshine at 2am in June isn't as appealing somehow...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    The U.S. built up Ukraine’s bio labs. Russia twisted it into a vast lie.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/29/russia-disinformation-ukraine-bio-labs/
    ...The agreement with Ukraine grew out of the 1992 Nunn-Lugar legislation, sponsored by Mr. Lugar and Sen. Sam Nunn (D-Ga.) to clean up the Cold War legacy of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons in the former Soviet Union, an effort that became known as Cooperative Threat Reduction. In the 1990s, thousands of nuclear warheads and missiles were liquidated, followed by vast stocks of chemical weapons. Later, the Nunn-Lugar program expanded into reducing biological threats in Russian laboratories, as well as other former Soviet republics. Among other efforts, a public health reference laboratory was opened in Tbilisi, Georgia, in 2011, named the Lugar Center. Pathogens stored in a Soviet-era research institute in the center of Tbilisi were moved to a purpose-built, secure facility.
    The Nunn-Lugar program was partially in the U.S. interest. But it was also an act of benevolence. The sole remaining superpower extended a hand to nations that were weak and struggling, providing about $1 billion a year to the former Soviet republics. Since 2005, the U.S. agreement with Ukraine has led to $200 million in aid for 46 biomedical and health facilities. The assistance was not forced on anyone — it was designed to make people safer and healthier. The recipients were eager for it. The aid to Russia was terminated by President Vladimir Putin in 2014 but continued elsewhere...


    Worth reading in full.
    Explains a lot about how Putinist propaganda (often adopted by the US right) operates.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    edited March 2023
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
    But IN YOUR FACE Torshavn, Bergen and Tromso.

    I do like a bit of sunshine. But order that list of cities by total yearly sunshine; there is a very inverse correlation between cities I would like to live in and amount of sunshine. I don't know whether that's just a human tendency to value what one has over what one could have or whether gloom and quality of life are both influenced by a third factor, or less probably, whether gloom promotes quality of life.
    Yes, who would want to live in sunny Barcelona, Rome, Lisbon or Lugano, when you can live in the year round dishcloth greyness of Stockport?

    One noticeable oddity is the utter sunlessness of Lima, Peru: at 1230 hours it is even grimmer than Manchester, despite being near the equator and all that

    I can vouch for this. I've spent a fair bit of time in Lima and the climate is horrifically depressing. Grey sea fogs half the year, and cloudy mild dankness the other half
    Indeed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdw_OCvy0WY

    It's largely a function of being on the west coast, with hills behind. Prevailing damp winds lead to cloud.

    Slightly surprised by how sunny Switzerland seems though.

    If I could choose a climate, it would probably be Yorkshire's. Specifically, the Yorkshire Dales. It's quite instructive to travel from North Lancashire to North Yorkshire; you can tell when you cross the county boundary (near enough) because the tone of green changes from North Lancashire's deep dark green to North Yorkshire's more subtley beige hues - largely due to the difference in rainfall.
    But hey, NW England is pretty damn good too. When I was a child we used to fly often to the south coast of Spain. My favourite bit of the holiday would be descending through the clouds above Manchester Airport and the vivid lushness of everywhere after a week in Spain. Made you feel good to be home.
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Emerald said:

    Having said that if you lived in fort william you would certainly notice it raining a lot. West highlands are a whole different ballgame.

    Yes, Manchester gets a lot of, as you say, raindays, but not actually an excessive amount of rain. It's drier than Plymouth and considerably drier than Swansea and Glasgow.
    ISTR there are only around 50 days a year on which it's possible to see the top of Ben Nevis.
    The problem with NW England (and most of the British Isles) is not so much the rainfall - there are many many much rainier places - it is the lack of sunshine hours. Few places in the world are as grey and sunless as northern/western Britain. The Aleutian Islands maybe. That's about it

    Manchester gets 1265 hours of sun a year (and it is worse further north)

    Even Greenland is sunnier, even the Falkland Islands are sunnier. Even Reykjavik

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration
    But IN YOUR FACE Torshavn, Bergen and Tromso.

    I do like a bit of sunshine. But order that list of cities by total yearly sunshine; there is a very inverse correlation between cities I would like to live in and amount of sunshine. I don't know whether that's just a human tendency to value what one has over what one could have or whether gloom and quality of life are both influenced by a third factor, or less probably, whether gloom promotes quality of life.
    Yes, who would want to live in sunny Barcelona, Rome, Lisbon or Lugano, when you can live in the year round dishcloth greyness of Stockport?

    One noticeable oddity is the utter sunlessness of Lima, Peru: at 1230 hours it is even grimmer than Manchester, despite being near the equator and all that

    I can vouch for this. I've spent a fair bit of time in Lima and the climate is horrifically depressing. Grey sea fogs half the year, and cloudy mild dankness the other half
    Amazingly Lima is on the same latitude as Bangkok yet couldnt have a more different climate. It is more like a grey and depressing Los Angeles.
  • Sandpit said:

    A looming British ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars was thrown into chaos on Tuesday after Brussels watered down its own restrictions amid opposition from the German auto industry.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-chaos-brussels-climbdown/ (£££)

    How useless is Boris that he could not get a decent Brexit agreement even though it is now confirmed that German car makers really do run Europe?

    Hilarious that our pathetic Government is still so beholden to the EU that we were following their ban anyway.
    This was Carrie’s Johnson’s idea to be seen as more green than the EU.
    Fossil fuel vehicles are to be phased out throughout the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles
This discussion has been closed.