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The NHS the biggest vulnerability of Sunak’s Tories – Ipsos polling – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2023 in General
imageThe NHS the biggest vulnerability of Sunak’s Tories – Ipsos polling – politicalbetting.com

A few days ago the Labour leader Keir Starmer set out what he described as Labour’s 5 missions as the first part of his build-up to the general election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited March 2023
    Test
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    Happy St Patrick's Day, btw. Now back to Cheltenham, which celebrated it yesterday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited March 2023
    Will these be the election policy battlegrounds?

    For parents of 1 year olds it's going to be will Labour match or improve on the Gov'ts 15 hour offer.
    I note Humza is pledging to improve the childcare offer in his SNP leader pledge.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    Happy St Patrick’s day, from a pub that’s celebrating it tomorrow for some reason. That said, It’s the last day of the six nations tomorrow, and half price beer on that day seems like a fair compromise.

    I don‘t need an excuse to be in the pub for six hours tomorrow!
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702
    Doing a deal with the health unions should help
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459
    edited March 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Will these be the election policy battlegrounds?

    For parents of 1 year olds it's going to be will Labour match or improve on the Gov'ts 15 hour offer.
    I note Humza is pledging to improve the childcare offer in his SNP leader pledge.

    Labour has already pledged to reform childcare, and their offer will exceed the Tories'. Bridget Philipson has set out much of the thinking, with details to be finalised.

    Indeed, Hunt's announcements this week are an attempted pre-emptive strike to park its tanks on Labour's childcare lawn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Taz said:

    Doing a deal with the health unions should help

    Yes at least settling the NHS strikes with a 5% payrise plus bonus for non Doctor NHS workers will help the Conservatives in this area
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited March 2023
    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    edited March 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Will these be the election policy battlegrounds?

    For parents of 1 year olds it's going to be will Labour match or improve on the Gov'ts 15 hour offer.
    I note Humza is pledging to improve the childcare offer in his SNP leader pledge.

    Wales labour not committing to it yet much to the annoyance of my son and daughter in law who have a six month baby

    The offer is 30 hours in 2025
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Doing a deal with the health unions should help

    Yes at least settling the NHS strikes with a 5% payrise plus bonus for non Doctor NHS workers will help the Conservatives in this area
    Looks like they will be settling with teachers too.

    https://twitter.com/nahtnews/status/1636653887380750337?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Taz said:

    Doing a deal with the health unions should help

    A bit, but Labour are always going to lead the Tories on the NHS. IIRC they did even at Corbyn's low point.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    edited March 2023
    Is the Pope Catholic? The NHS has always been an issue for the Tories
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183
    Happy Friday everyone. Also my parents' golden wedding anniversary today, which they are celebrating by cruising the icy fjords of Norway.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    edited March 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce

    Things are starting to move in space development at a pace.

    Given that the chosen lander for the Artemis project can put (potentially) a 100 tons on the Lunar surface, time to think big.

    Edit : the other builders of smallish nuclear reactors are the French, Chinese, Russias and Americans. Think the mini nuke project, submarine ms and the interconnections politically
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    Of course we could miraculously increase productivity.

    Which would require higher output without spending any more money.

    I doubt that's a message the public services want to hear from Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited March 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce

    Long term we do need to expand space exploration and scientific research bases beyond earth are part of that
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,673
    Pulpstar said:

    Will these be the election policy battlegrounds?

    For parents of 1 year olds it's going to be will Labour match or improve on the Gov'ts 15 hour offer.
    I note Humza is pledging to improve the childcare offer in his SNP leader pledge.

    He is offering free unicorns from his money tree, lying barsteward.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce

    Long term we do need to expand space exploration and scientific research bases beyond earth are part of that
    Is this in case the Rwanda scheme doesn’t work out? This is the loophole the government has spotted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    The long-term centre of gravity in British politics is that Labour are more trusted on the NHS and the Tories are more trusted on the economy, and the voters conclude that you can't do anything to help the NHS if the economy is wrecked, which is why the Tories are more often in government than Labour.

    So the figures on the economy are the ones to watch. The Truss Calamity and the inflation crisis has helped to give Labour a solid lead, but it's indicative of how influential the long-term beliefs are that the lead is only 13 points.

    If the Tories can get that lead down to low single figures, or better, then they would have a chance of denying Labour a majority.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
    Because they dutifully stopped their lives for 18 months to "protect" it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    Good question but otoh this Conservative government has the highest tax take in history, continuing the proud record of the May, Johnson and Truss governments.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    Only about 25% of the population offering the correct answer of 'Neither' to these questions suggests that the entire UK people is on some sort of optimism therapy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited March 2023

    Pulpstar said:

    Will these be the election policy battlegrounds?

    For parents of 1 year olds it's going to be will Labour match or improve on the Gov'ts 15 hour offer.
    I note Humza is pledging to improve the childcare offer in his SNP leader pledge.

    Wales labour not committing to it yet much to the annoyance of my son and daughter in law who have a six month baby

    The offer is 30 hours in 2025
    Was your son & daughter in law's baby born in August or September ?

    The effective offer looks a bit different depending on their precise DoB.

    August 2022 baby current situation = 30 hours from Sep 2025.
    New situation for August baby = 15 hours from Sep 2024. Which means they effectively get 1 year of 15 hours more than they would have done.

    September baby current situation = 30 hours from Jan 2026.
    New situation for September baby = 15 hours from Sep 2024 & 30 hours from Sep 2025 to Dec 2026 which they wouldn't have got.
    So it's 1 year more of 15 hours plus an extra term of 30 hours.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    I don't think it's a particular vulnerability - as others have said, it's always been unfit for purpose.

    COL imo is the bigger vulnerability, but helpfully, Labour have no plans to address that either, indeed 'Mission 2' will probably make it worse.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
    Because it's considerably worse, as anyone who has (for example) used A&E over the last decade will realise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    " it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago,"

    I haven't heard that, and it sounds interesting. Have you got details?

    (Xi's visit to Moscow, and his call with Zelenskyy, promise to be very interesting.O
  • ReedReed Posts: 152

    The long-term centre of gravity in British politics is that Labour are more trusted on the NHS and the Tories are more trusted on the economy, and the voters conclude that you can't do anything to help the NHS if the economy is wrecked, which is why the Tories are more often in government than Labour.

    So the figures on the economy are the ones to watch. The Truss Calamity and the inflation crisis has helped to give Labour a solid lead, but it's indicative of how influential the long-term beliefs are that the lead is only 13 points.

    If the Tories can get that lead down to low single figures, or better, then they would have a chance of denying Labour a majority.

    Again i come back to the developing banking crisis situation. A 2008 type meltdown would finish the tories for good as their core vote is elderly rich asset owners.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    In the manifesto which will be costed. Do you have a better suggestion?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459
    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The truth lies somewhere in that roomy space between 'awful for decades' and 'envy of the world'.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
    Because it's considerably worse, as anyone who has (for example) used A&E over the last decade will realise.
    My last experience with A&E was brilliant - although that was me helping a friend's son. When Mrs J was ill four or five years ago; again brilliant. When I had meningitis seven years ago, they were brilliant.

    Which sort-of shows the problem: the variability is staggering. In the case of my meningitis, the ambulance drove past a queue of ambulances, presumably not because I was important, but because the condition was seen as serious.

    So my experience of A&E over the last ten years has been brilliant. Perhaps that was just luck. But my experience of other parts of the NHS, especially GP services, is remarkably less positive.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
    Because it's considerably worse, as anyone who has (for example) used A&E over the last decade will realise.
    My A&E experiences (The bit relevant to the hospital ) were much better DURING the pandemic compared to since we've come out of it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    If something is failing, should the failures be ignored? That's what was tried at Stafford, to no-one's benefit.

    (And if you look at my posts, I'm both praising and slagging off the NHS...)
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The truth lies somewhere in that roomy space between 'awful for decades' and 'envy of the world'.
    It varies so much between hospitals. I do think the nhs is better though in the big cities like london and manchester. The horror stories seem to come from provincial areas like morecambe and mid staffordshire.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    Good question but otoh this Conservative government has the highest tax take in history, continuing the proud record of the May, Johnson and Truss governments.
    Indeed.

    Which shows how hard it is going to be to find more money.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    The long-term centre of gravity in British politics is that Labour are more trusted on the NHS and the Tories are more trusted on the economy, and the voters conclude that you can't do anything to help the NHS if the economy is wrecked, which is why the Tories are more often in government than Labour.

    So the figures on the economy are the ones to watch. The Truss Calamity and the inflation crisis has helped to give Labour a solid lead, but it's indicative of how influential the long-term beliefs are that the lead is only 13 points.

    If the Tories can get that lead down to low single figures, or better, then they would have a chance of denying Labour a majority.

    Yep, the Cons trailing by a meagre 13 pts on the economy is somewhat amazing. It suggests 18 months of stability could reap big dividends for them. However, chances of 18 months of stability? Not great imo.
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    kinabalu said:

    The long-term centre of gravity in British politics is that Labour are more trusted on the NHS and the Tories are more trusted on the economy, and the voters conclude that you can't do anything to help the NHS if the economy is wrecked, which is why the Tories are more often in government than Labour.

    So the figures on the economy are the ones to watch. The Truss Calamity and the inflation crisis has helped to give Labour a solid lead, but it's indicative of how influential the long-term beliefs are that the lead is only 13 points.

    If the Tories can get that lead down to low single figures, or better, then they would have a chance of denying Labour a majority.

    Yep, the Cons trailing by a meagre 13 pts on the economy is somewhat amazing. It suggests 18 months of stability could reap big dividends for them. However, chances of 18 months of stability? Not great imo.
    Remember the tory core vote is elderly pensioners many of whom havent a clue whats going on in the economy other then that young people need to stop going to starbucks so they can afford a house.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    kinabalu said:

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    In the manifesto which will be costed. Do you have a better suggestion?
    'In the manifesto it will be costed' = nobody knows and hopefully nobody will notice until after the election.

    And if you think I'm being cynical then I am but I'm also correct.

    Now if you want practical money raising suggestions then:

    1) Increase VAT on imported consumer tat
    2) Increase taxes on air travel (good environmental case as well)
    3) Higher taxes on property - start with extra council tax bands
    4) Get rid of the pension triple lock

    And in return reduce employment taxes on the low paid.

    I doubt those ideas would be vote winners though.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce

    Long term we do need to expand space exploration and scientific research bases beyond earth are part of that
    The Cabinet are prime candidates if any astronaut vacancies become available - most of them are space cadets already.
  • ReedReed Posts: 152
    I know many elderly people who spend all their time planning their next holiday and not cheap holidays too. For these people the economy is fine.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    " it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago,"

    I haven't heard that, and it sounds interesting. Have you got details?

    (Xi's visit to Moscow, and his call with Zelenskyy, promise to be very interesting.O
    Reported quite widely in November last.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-red-line-biden-and-xis-secret-ukraine-talks-revealed/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    edited March 2023

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    The Slovak ones are all Christmas Trees by this point (Czechia and Poland do their air policing) but Ukraine can certainly use the parts. Especially engines because their emails to the Klimov factory are going straight into the Junk folder.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    " it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago,"

    I haven't heard that, and it sounds interesting. Have you got details?

    (Xi's visit to Moscow, and his call with Zelenskyy, promise to be very interesting.O
    Reported quite widely in November last.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-red-line-biden-and-xis-secret-ukraine-talks-revealed/
    Thanks.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 815

    kinabalu said:

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    In the manifesto which will be costed. Do you have a better suggestion?
    'In the manifesto it will be costed' = nobody knows and hopefully nobody will notice until after the election.

    And if you think I'm being cynical then I am but I'm also correct.

    Now if you want practical money raising suggestions then:

    1) Increase VAT on imported consumer tat
    2) Increase taxes on air travel (good environmental case as well)
    3) Higher taxes on property - start with extra council tax bands
    4) Get rid of the pension triple lock

    And in return reduce employment taxes on the low paid.

    I doubt those ideas would be vote winners though.
    This is one argument for us all to be wishing for a further collapse in the polls for the Tories. If a Labour majority became nailed on it would give Labour an opportunity to be ‘brave’ on this (though the dementia tax might still give them pause).

    What you suggest seems sensible to me. Whether Lab would be clear sighted enough to try to implement those suggestions is another question.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,921
    Con gain in Stirling.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,085
    Reed said:

    I know many elderly people who spend all their time planning their next holiday and not cheap holidays too. For these people the economy is fine.

    If your mortgage is based on house prices before about 2000, or (better still) paid off entirely, life is much peachier than if you are paying current prices.

    Everything else, even Brexit and the culture wars, is noise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Dura_Ace said:

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    The Slovak ones are all Christmas Trees by this point (Czechia and Poland do their air policing) but Ukraine can certainly use the parts. Especially engines because their emails to the Klimov factory are going straight into the Junk folder.
    A common feature in this conflict has been people routinely underestimating Ukraine's capabilities and innovation (with the help of their partners).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451
    slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    And yet some still claim the dollar is strong.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394
    slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    Vote share up 10% from last year. SNP share stable by squeezing the Greens. Overall swing to Unionist side.

    Evidence is that Scottish Tories doing well in their important areas. Likewise SLAB.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,137
    slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    Not surprising - multimember slate, and by election to replace 2nd place last time. Con got first last time, so would be expected to do well again in a by election.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    Vote share up 10% from last year. SNP share stable by squeezing the Greens. Overall swing to Unionist side.

    Evidence is that Scottish Tories doing well in their important areas. Likewise SLAB.
    Straws in the wind Burgessian.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451

    Mission 1 - Spend money
    Mission 2 - Spend money
    Mission 3 - Spend money
    Mission 4 - Spend money
    Mission 5 - Spend money

    Now when do we get told where that money is going to come from ?

    This is a popular and powerful meme but it leads to a lack of investment that is ultimately what drives our living standards.

    If we split government into day to day services, wealth redistribution and investment then sure the first two require balancing of the books in the medium and especially long term, but the amount we can invest depends more on economic opportunities and how well we spend it, rather than how we raise it.

    In the UK the government does too little investment which puts too much pressure on day to day services. The only way we can get out of this spiral is actually spending more, but spending it more wisely.
  • slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    Vote share up 10% from last year. SNP share stable by squeezing the Greens. Overall swing to Unionist side.

    Evidence is that Scottish Tories doing well in their important areas. Likewise SLAB.
    Will be fascinating to see how it plays out once the SNP elect their new leader. Forbes would be a completely different proposition to Yousaf. We're basically in a phony war stage waiting for them to pick someone, then we will be able to start thinking about how that impacts the other parties.

    Until then, its all a bit meh!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,256
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    No, it all varies, across all departments. Although acute care is generally pretty good, while longer term/less urgent stuff is not.

    The world-beating ordering of paperclips is also important as the same people are dealing with pharma companies etc and making good deals which is why the NHS does fairly well on a cost perspective (along with being monolithic - if you don't do a deal with the NHS then you're not going to really have a market in the UK - you have more options in countries with competing providers). I'm yet to be shown a significantly better service that doesn't cost a lot more.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, I'd be quite happy with the setups in many other European countries, by many measures they're better, even much better, but they do also cost more. Maybe by 10-20%, which makes a hell of a difference due to not always operating at the extreme limits of capacity and surviving only on the goodwill of staff).
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    Duncan Bannyatyne insists his companies never buy paperclips. You get a plentiful supply in the course of your business. I never did either in my business.

    If we all did it I wonder when there would be a paperclip shortage or whether there are enough spare in the world to keep circulating.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394
    Carnyx said:

    slade said:

    Con gain in Stirling.

    Not surprising - multimember slate, and by election to replace 2nd place last time. Con got first last time, so would be expected to do well again in a by election.
    The swings the thing...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    My experience of the NHS is that medical staff fight the system, which is setup to stop they providing health care.

    I suppose is it possible that @Foxy & Co went to medical school so they could copy the data from one system to an Excel sheet, copy it into a USB stick, load it into a different computer and copy and pasta into another system. Just so they can deliver some treatment to a patient. But somehow, I doubt that was what they dreamed of.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    Duncan Bannyatyne insists his companies never buy paperclips. You get a plentiful supply in the course of your business. I never did either in my business.

    If we all did it I wonder when there would be a paperclip shortage or whether there are enough spare in the world to keep circulating.
    Never buy biros either. Every 10 years I buy a box of staples to use in my 40 year old stapler.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    That is unlikely to be true for most who've had to use NHS services in that time.
    The NHS has been awful for 50 years why would the last two years affect anyone's view?
    I don't think its been awful for 50 years or is awful now.

    Pre-Blair it was a 7/10 mass public health service and now it is a 7/10 mass public health service. The difference is the shed-loads of cash we have been shovelling into it from Blair onwards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,137

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    My experience of the NHS is that medical staff fight the system, which is setup to stop they providing health care.

    I suppose is it possible that @Foxy & Co went to medical school so they could copy the data from one system to an Excel sheet, copy it into a USB stick, load it into a different computer and copy and pasta into another system. Just so they can deliver some treatment to a patient. But somehow, I doubt that was what they dreamed of.
    I doubt it, if my mental image of Foxy's age is correct. You'd be lucky if he could word process at all!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Scottish Conservative council by-election gain from SNP in Dunblane and Bridge of Allan
    Conservative: 1832 (41%, +10.9)
    SNP: 1202 (26.9%, +1.1)
    Labour: 600 (13.4%, +1.6)
    Lib Dem: 399 (8.9%, -0.4)
    Green: 389 (8.7%, -7.3)
    Family: 50 (1.1%, +0.4)
    (Non-returns 6.2% in 2022)

    Con elected stage 6.

    hat tip Ballot Box Scotland
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    No, it all varies, across all departments. Although acute care is generally pretty good, while longer term/less urgent stuff is not.

    The world-beating ordering of paperclips is also important as the same people are dealing with pharma companies etc and making good deals which is why the NHS does fairly well on a cost perspective (along with being monolithic - if you don't do a deal with the NHS then you're not going to really have a market in the UK - you have more options in countries with competing providers). I'm yet to be shown a significantly better service that doesn't cost a lot more.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, I'd be quite happy with the setups in many other European countries, by many measures they're better, even much better, but they do also cost more. Maybe by 10-20%, which makes a hell of a difference due to not always operating at the extreme limits of capacity and surviving only on the goodwill of staff).
    I’m having some trouble on the interface between primary and secondary care. The operation was successful, but the in-house post-op physio etc very mixed. Now I’m trying to get physio in secondary care it’s proving difficult.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,256
    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,256

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    No, it all varies, across all departments. Although acute care is generally pretty good, while longer term/less urgent stuff is not.

    The world-beating ordering of paperclips is also important as the same people are dealing with pharma companies etc and making good deals which is why the NHS does fairly well on a cost perspective (along with being monolithic - if you don't do a deal with the NHS then you're not going to really have a market in the UK - you have more options in countries with competing providers). I'm yet to be shown a significantly better service that doesn't cost a lot more.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, I'd be quite happy with the setups in many other European countries, by many measures they're better, even much better, but they do also cost more. Maybe by 10-20%, which makes a hell of a difference due to not always operating at the extreme limits of capacity and surviving only on the goodwill of staff).
    I’m having some trouble on the interface between primary and secondary care. The operation was successful, but the in-house post-op physio etc very mixed. Now I’m trying to get physio in secondary care it’s proving difficult.
    Yep, it's a well-known nightmare, unfortunately (completey disconnected IT, everything goes by email f you're lucky and post if you're not). Re physio, you can self-refer, without involving GP (not that you should need to, particularly post-op).

    Interesting as my father-in-law's experience with post-op physio has been excellent (North Yorks, broken arm and knee op both in the last two years). Excellent regular follow-up for as long as needed. My mum's, after a broken ankle (mid Essex) was very poor - a couple of sessions and then good luck to you. She did eventually get some more via the GP, but it took some time and persistence. Postcode lottery again.

    (BTW - do you mean you're now trying for secondary care physio - hospital - or primary care - via GP? Somewhat counterintuively, in terms of order, if you've had an op then that's under secondary care, or possibly tertiary and then your community followup is primary care)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    algarkirk said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    Duncan Bannyatyne insists his companies never buy paperclips. You get a plentiful supply in the course of your business. I never did either in my business.

    If we all did it I wonder when there would be a paperclip shortage or whether there are enough spare in the world to keep circulating.
    Never buy biros either. Every 10 years I buy a box of staples to use in my 40 year old stapler.
    Yep. I have never done that and DB insists his staff supply their own pens. Of course Douglas Adams had something to say about where biros went. He might have had it wrong. They might all be DB companies or in your or my house.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,501
    edited March 2023
    Off topic. I see someone has made an official complaint to Police Scotland about Humza Yousaf’s appearing to break the Hate Crime and Public Order Act (after claiming double rapist Isla Bryson is “not a genuine trans woman” during the latest SNP leadership debate). Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's clear to me that activists on both sides of the argument are likely to tie whoever wins the SNP leadership in knots for some time over this issue. What a mess.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    .
    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    No, it all varies, across all departments. Although acute care is generally pretty good, while longer term/less urgent stuff is not...
    There's also undoubtedly a great deal of geographical variability.

    Anecdotally, it's got noticeably worse accessing GP care and/or A&E services over the last ten to fifteen years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    The world of F1...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64979439
    ...Aston Martin's Lance Stroll and Red Bull's Sergio Perez said they trusted F1 and the race organisers to look after them and that they believed positive change was happening in Saudi Arabia, which has been accused by human rights groups of widespread abuses.

    Hamilton was the last to answer in the official news conference on matters of safety and human rights, and initially said that he believed "the opposite to everything they [Stroll and Perez] said"...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited March 2023

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    That’s always been pretty much the norm. I think I predicted that after a brief period of uncomfortable shuffling of feet during COVID that normal service would be swiftly resumed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see that the government is focussed on core, down to Earth priorities.

    Government signs £2.9m Moon base nuclear power deal with Rolls-Royce

    Space cadet party.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    But when public sector workers strike, whether the government decides to concede or hold out depends on whether it perceives it will gain or lose votes by each course of action, which in turn depends on whether public sympathy is with or against the strikers.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394

    Off topic. I see someone has made an official complaint to Police Scotland about Humza Yousaf’s appearing to break the Hate Crime and Public Order Act (after claiming double rapist Isla Bryson is “not a genuine trans woman” during the latest SNP leadership debate). Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's clear to me that activists on both sides of the argument are likely to tie whoever wins the SNP leadership in knots for some time over this issue. What a mess.

    Scotland. "Where woke comes to die."
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    kjh said:

    algarkirk said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    By May it will be - what a kerfuffle over the NHS and doctors/nurses; still, the whole country was going mad with inflation and Ukraine and what have you.

    I think actually the NHS will be subsumed into the general year of chaos and hence this will benefit the Cons.

    A deal will help but the general malaise in the NHS isn't going away anytime soon.
    No def not. But the NHS has been awful for decades. It's priced in. Junior doctors and nurses walking out is the issue they had to solve and it looks like it is being solved. Then we are all back to the NHS being useless.
    The problem is that the NHS has not been awful for decades. If it had been, it would have changed.

    The problem is that the NHS has been awful *in parts* for decades. In other parts, it's brilliant, or (dare I say it) world-beating. Which parts are awful varies according to condition, according to postcode, and according to age.

    So someone might have a brilliant experience with their cancer treatment at place A, but someone under a different trust a few miles away might have an awful experience. But because of the religion that's grown up around the NHS, only the former experience counts.
    Those "parts" being the ones which are concerned with keeping you alive and well.

    The ordering paperclips parts are world beating.
    Duncan Bannyatyne insists his companies never buy paperclips. You get a plentiful supply in the course of your business. I never did either in my business.

    If we all did it I wonder when there would be a paperclip shortage or whether there are enough spare in the world to keep circulating.
    Never buy biros either. Every 10 years I buy a box of staples to use in my 40 year old stapler.
    Yep. I have never done that and DB insists his staff supply their own pens. Of course Douglas Adams had something to say about where biros went. He might have had it wrong. They might all be DB companies or in your or my house.
    Biros are strange. I can always find one/some, but not any particular one, which is always lost. But like bath taps on with no plug the gains always slightly outweigh the losses.

    Like coat hangers where the gains massively outweigh the losses. From time to time I have to cull them with a rifle under licence from DEFRA. This is widely believed to be because they breed and multiply in the dark places they mostly inhabit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,137

    Off topic. I see someone has made an official complaint to Police Scotland about Humza Yousaf’s appearing to break the Hate Crime and Public Order Act (after claiming double rapist Isla Bryson is “not a genuine trans woman” during the latest SNP leadership debate). Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's clear to me that activists on both sides of the argument are likely to tie whoever wins the SNP leadership in knots for some time over this issue. What a mess.

    Scotland. "Where woke comes to die."
    A problem heading also for Labour and the Conservatives in Westminster. Remember that Mrs May was well on the way to at least having a good go at the problem till the Tories went all Wokefinders General.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2023

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    An organisation can be generally for the good.

    But, if an organisation employs 1.3 million people, then some of those people will be bad at their job, or bullies, or lazy, or incompetent.

    That is just a Law of Large Numbers.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,256
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    But when public sector workers strike, whether the government decides to concede or hold out depends on whether it perceives it will gain or lose votes by each course of action, which in turn depends on whether public sympathy is with or against the strikers.
    There's an element of that, true. But my feeling/experience is more that people are always pissed off with the government and sometimes (depending on sympathy levels) with the workers when strikes disrupt their lives. So governments always have an interest in ending strikes. Even if people are pissed off with teachers, nurses, junior medics, there's not a great deal they can do - go private for healthcare or education, sure, but not much else. They can, more easily, punish the government at the ballot box.

    Very different to a private sector strike where people, particularly if pissed off with the workers/company will simply go elsewhere.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,569
    edited March 2023
    It's quite clear from all the recent reports that "vast majority" simply isn't true.
    The problems are systemic, not just a 'few rotten apples'.

    Dominic Raab defends Met police as damning Casey report looms
    Justice secretary praises ‘vast majority’ of officers but concedes London force clearly has a problem
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/17/dominic-raab-defends-met-police-as-damning-casey-report-looms

    Though of course, Raab believes he "sets high standards", and sees no problem with his own behaviour.

    FFS, the head of the IOPC just resigned, as he's under police investigation.
    And another board member is moving on in opaque circumstances*, in the middle of conducting a police shooting homicide investigation.

    * "For family reasons" - but has accepted a new job with OFQUAL.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    But when public sector workers strike, whether the government decides to concede or hold out depends on whether it perceives it will gain or lose votes by each course of action, which in turn depends on whether public sympathy is with or against the strikers.
    There's an element of that, true. But my feeling/experience is more that people are always pissed off with the government and sometimes (depending on sympathy levels) with the workers when strikes disrupt their lives. So governments always have an interest in ending strikes. Even if people are pissed off with teachers, nurses, junior medics, there's not a great deal they can do - go private for healthcare or education, sure, but not much else. They can, more easily, punish the government at the ballot box.

    Very different to a private sector strike where people, particularly if pissed off with the workers/company will simply go elsewhere.
    Yes, I have no candle for either side in most private sector strikes. Whereas public sector strikes feel oddly personal. Probably because I am technically the employer, as well as the customer. (Though also, working in the public sector, the employee).
    Clearly the obvious solution is to privatise the public sector :wink:
  • kinabalu said:

    The long-term centre of gravity in British politics is that Labour are more trusted on the NHS and the Tories are more trusted on the economy, and the voters conclude that you can't do anything to help the NHS if the economy is wrecked, which is why the Tories are more often in government than Labour.

    So the figures on the economy are the ones to watch. The Truss Calamity and the inflation crisis has helped to give Labour a solid lead, but it's indicative of how influential the long-term beliefs are that the lead is only 13 points.

    If the Tories can get that lead down to low single figures, or better, then they would have a chance of denying Labour a majority.

    Yep, the Cons trailing by a meagre 13 pts on the economy is somewhat amazing. It suggests 18 months of stability could reap big dividends for them. However, chances of 18 months of stability? Not great imo.
    I think that is not right for several reasons:

    1. Inflation likely to fall, if only because of comps
    2. Tax receipts likely to be high because of wage increases, particularly the private sector + fiscal drag
    3. Public finances therefore likely to better, a lot to do with 2 (+ higher VAT because of higher prices).
    4. Fed is likely to cut rates next year as we approach the 2024 election, which will have a positive effect on world economies (and help with 1).

    The economic cycle is actually looking good for the Government only the next 18 months.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Dura_Ace said:

    Slovakia is joining Poland in sending MiG fighter jets to Ukraine. The timing is interesting given that it was reportedly an intervention from China that prevented them being sent a year ago, and Xi Jingping is visiting Russia next week.

    I guess that means they must be pretty confident China won't supply weapons and ammunition to Russia.

    The Slovak ones are all Christmas Trees by this point (Czechia and Poland do their air policing) but Ukraine can certainly use the parts. Especially engines because their emails to the Klimov factory are going straight into the Junk folder.
    A common feature in this conflict has been people routinely underestimating Ukraine's capabilities and innovation (with the help of their partners).
    I flew one in DCS at my mate's house last week in a 1v1 against an F-16 (lost) so I now consider myself a Fulcrum expert on a par with A. N. Kvochur. It's a dog at low level transonic. At M1.0 it ran out of pitch authority at about 14 degrees AoA so pulling maybe 5g. A well flown F-16 would (and did) have it for breakfast in that regime. However, I could get 10g out of at slower speed because there are no limits in the Fulcrum FCS like Western types. It's an exciting ride though that has to be actively flown at all times. I predict a seasoned Fulcrum driver would find an F-16 a somewhat sanitised experience.

    Where's my medal?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited March 2023
    Bloody hell, is that true about the weight thing?



    Edit: I assume they mean heavier than any light tank, but what is the definition of a ‘light’ tank, particularly if it’s not light.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    An organisation can be generally for the good.

    But, if an organisation employs 1.3 million people, then some of those people will be bad at their job, or bullies, or lazy, or incompetent.

    That is just a Law of Large Numbers.
    The problem isn’t (mostly) with the people. It’s the organisational structure and systems.

    The classic of this genre was how as Rover etc staggered to their doom, brand new factories managed by people recruited from the old car making industry and staffed by people from the same made cars. Better cars, cheaper and without the toxic industrial relations.

    Same people, different organisations.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,085
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    But when public sector workers strike, whether the government decides to concede or hold out depends on whether it perceives it will gain or lose votes by each course of action, which in turn depends on whether public sympathy is with or against the strikers.
    Difficulty is, if you are in a sector where there is a monopsony employer, or nearly so, what should you do when your employer decides to take the mickey with their pay offer?

    Eventually, the answer is "go and do something else instead", or "go abroad". Despite the hassle barriers in those, far too many people are doing that for comfort.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,256
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.

    When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
    Agreed.
    I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
    The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
    But when public sector workers strike, whether the government decides to concede or hold out depends on whether it perceives it will gain or lose votes by each course of action, which in turn depends on whether public sympathy is with or against the strikers.
    There's an element of that, true. But my feeling/experience is more that people are always pissed off with the government and sometimes (depending on sympathy levels) with the workers when strikes disrupt their lives. So governments always have an interest in ending strikes. Even if people are pissed off with teachers, nurses, junior medics, there's not a great deal they can do - go private for healthcare or education, sure, but not much else. They can, more easily, punish the government at the ballot box.

    Very different to a private sector strike where people, particularly if pissed off with the workers/company will simply go elsewhere.
    Yes, I have no candle for either side in most private sector strikes. Whereas public sector strikes feel oddly personal. Probably because I am technically the employer, as well as the customer. (Though also, working in the public sector, the employee).
    Clearly the obvious solution is to privatise the public sector :wink:
    Or publicise* the private sector? :wink:

    Yeah, there's also the issue that for every private sector employee pissed with the public sector workers in x industry getting an apparently juicy pay rise from their taxes, there's a public sector in another industry who either got a similar pay rise or is might pissed with the government because they didn't.

    I'm technically private sector (apparently, checked the ONS pay stats, which count universities as private, whic they technically are, I guess) but in a private sector that looks, sounds and smells like public sector, even with national pay scales.

    *which clearly, for reasons I can't work out, is not the opposite of 'privatise' although it sounds like it should be
This discussion has been closed.