I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
In my part of the world, one of the universities closing would be received quite well by a large section of the electorate, if letters to the local paper and comments on its Facebook page are anything to judge by.
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
Think the elderly would get more sympathy if for once they would admit that buying a property doesnt depend on going without a few takeaway coffees. But they wont.
The elderly, like the young, do not exist as a single entity. Of course the elderly do not think that is the case. A few may do but they are hardly representative of the elderly as a group.
If the elderly came out and said look we think property prices are too high they would get more respect. But strangely many when they do put their house on the market prefer to withdraw it again rather than accept a realistic offer. Thats just pure greed.
The problem with housing is we need to build more.
So we get the bizarre scenario of an MP like Layla Moran bemoaning the lack of homes in her area for Ukrainian refugees yet opposing many housing developments to pander to NIMBYs.
We also need to build where the homes are needed.
Why should people be expected to sell their homes at a price they don’t want to. I really doubt the scenario you paint is what happens in large numbers.
Oxford West & Abingdon is Nimby Central -- all those chattering LibDems in enormous Victorian or Edwardian houses worried about their historic neighbourhoods.
When I lived in OXWAB, the local Residents Group was the most active semi-fascist group I have so far encountered. It routinely objected to anything whatsoever that changed the neighbourhood.
Whilst new builds are needed, we could also make better use of existing housing stock:
1. By penalizing singletons who live in enormous houses 2. By penalizing second homers.
Inefficient use of our housing stock should be discouraged through a property tax (as in that very left-wing country, the USA ).
The existing Council Tax fails to do this. In fact, it does the opposite. You get a 25 % discount if you are on your own in a huge property.
Build enough "enormous houses" that we can go back to the days when a 3 bed semi was what poor people lived in.
A 3 bed semi was what EVERYONE lived in. I grew up in by some measures the most middle class constituency in the country - Cheadle - I'd say the majority of the housing stock was post war 3BSs.
That said, much though I yearn for the days when a 3BS in an ok area could be bought on a single teacher's salary, I don't think they're necessarily great houses - either in terms of aesthetics, internal layouts, or efficiency. We can do better.
It's alarming that houses like that (mine's interwar and terraces of four, hundreds of them, one after the other, but the same basic idea) are generally more desirable than almost anything built more recently. Because there are significant bits of rubbishness about them- from the poor insulation to the alleyways that nobody ever drives down because they're too narrow.
And since they're not building Georgian-proportioned garden squares, I'm not going to be able to live somewhere where I can re-enact the whole Hugh Grant / Julia Roberts thing from Notting Hill. Hey ho.
Some years ago, I knew a chap who inherited an ancient bomb site in a nice bit of South London. 3 houses worth of a terrace.
Being obstinate he forced his plan through, in the end.
Which was to build three houses, matching frontage. Inside they did a modern layout - imagine a tidier and simpler version of knocking about a Victorian terraced house.
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
Think the elderly would get more sympathy if for once they would admit that buying a property doesnt depend on going without a few takeaway coffees. But they wont.
The elderly, like the young, do not exist as a single entity. Of course the elderly do not think that is the case. A few may do but they are hardly representative of the elderly as a group.
If the elderly came out and said look we think property prices are too high they would get more respect. But strangely many when they do put their house on the market prefer to withdraw it again rather than accept a realistic offer. Thats just pure greed.
The problem with housing is we need to build more.
So we get the bizarre scenario of an MP like Layla Moran bemoaning the lack of homes in her area for Ukrainian refugees yet opposing many housing developments to pander to NIMBYs.
We also need to build where the homes are needed.
Why should people be expected to sell their homes at a price they don’t want to. I really doubt the scenario you paint is what happens in large numbers.
Oxford West & Abingdon is Nimby Central -- all those chattering LibDems in enormous Victorian or Edwardian houses worried about their historic neighbourhoods.
When I lived in OXWAB, the local Residents Group was the most active semi-fascist group I have so far encountered. It routinely objected to anything whatsoever that changed the neighbourhood.
Whilst new builds are needed, we could also make better use of existing housing stock:
1. By penalizing singletons who live in enormous houses 2. By penalizing second homers.
Inefficient use of our housing stock should be discouraged through a property tax (as in that very left-wing country, the USA ).
The existing Council Tax fails to do this. In fact, it does the opposite. You get a 25 % discount if you are on your own in a huge property.
Build enough "enormous houses" that we can go back to the days when a 3 bed semi was what poor people lived in.
A 3 bed semi was what EVERYONE lived in. I grew up in by some measures the most middle class constituency in the country - Cheadle - I'd say the majority of the housing stock was post war 3BSs.
That said, much though I yearn for the days when a 3BS in an ok area could be bought on a single teacher's salary, I don't think they're necessarily great houses - either in terms of aesthetics, internal layouts, or efficiency. We can do better.
It's alarming that houses like that (mine's interwar and terraces of four, hundreds of them, one after the other, but the same basic idea) are generally more desirable than almost anything built more recently. Because there are significant bits of rubbishness about them- from the poor insulation to the alleyways that nobody ever drives down because they're too narrow.
And since they're not building Georgian-proportioned garden squares, I'm not going to be able to live somewhere where I can re-enact the whole Hugh Grant / Julia Roberts thing from Notting Hill. Hey ho.
I'd say something similar to that ought to be the ideal model - albeit built to modern standards of insulation (including sound insulation!), and with well thought out solutions to car parking.
One of my beefs about post war three bed semis is the ridiculous smallness of the third bedroom. Were we building for a race of people who always had one tiny child?
Small third bedroom in prewar too in my limited experience of the Home Counties. Seems to be the load bearing wall between the lobby/hall and the living room determining the location of the long side wall of the bedroom.
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
This would be the same Wales that voted for Brexit!
And the same Drakeford who supports the Union.
He's just not very keen on the English.
Not fair. Her's not very keen on being ordered about by people Wales didn't vote for. Not the same thing.
Is it not ? In reality, that pretty well is the same thing.
And tbf, it's him not me talking about contemporary resonances he perceives in the 'barbarous English' document.
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
Perhaps not, but a lot of people are enthused by the idea of their own children going to university!
The fact that no party is proposing this is a pretty strong indication that they don't think it would be popular, isn't it?
Of course I am agreeing with you that a reduction of this monumental waste of resources _should_ be popular, but so long as politicians are too cowardly to make the case it is not going to be.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and IDS and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPs or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
This would be the same Wales that voted for Brexit!
And the same Drakeford who supports the Union.
He's just not very keen on the English.
Not fair. Her's not very keen on being ordered about by people Wales didn't vote for. Not the same thing.
Is it not ? In reality, that pretty well is the same thing.
And tbf, it's him not me talking about contemporary resonances he perceives in the 'barbarous English' document.
Only because the Tories volunteer to do it. Hence the logical disconnect.
And his contemporary resonances are not what you perceive:
'I was struck by the contemporary resonances it has, not in relation to what it says about internal UK matters, but the pitch of the letter is that Glyndŵr would establish a separate Welsh church with its headquarters in St David’s in south-west Wales and found two new universities, one in the north, one in the south.[...] “And it would be a requirement of any clergy training for the ministry that they would be able to offer services in linguam nostram – our language, the Welsh language.'
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
Perhaps not, but a lot of people are enthused by the idea of their own children going to university!
The fact that no party is proposing this is a pretty strong indication that they don't think it would be popular, isn't it?
Of course I am agreeing with you that a reduction of this monumental waste of resources _should_ be popular, but so long as politicians are too cowardly to make the case it is not going to be.
Make apprenticeships etc degrees. Put hands on skills in degrees.
A chap I know at Imperial gets tons of CS students wanting to learn shop work (lathes, welding etc)
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
Perhaps not, but a lot of people are enthused by the idea of their own children going to university!
The fact that no party is proposing this is a pretty strong indication that they don't think it would be popular, isn't it?
Of course I am agreeing with you that a reduction of this monumental waste of resources _should_ be popular, but so long as politicians are too cowardly to make the case it is not going to be.
For a long time no party was making the case for leaving the European Union...
I'm certainly not enthused by my own children going to university. I'd far rather a landscape where there were good quality jobs available for school leavers. In far too many cases university attendance acts only as a marker: this is a person who went to university, universities only take the top half of the country by intelligence, therefore this person is one of the clever half. But the person is actually no more employable at 21 than he was at 18. University is in many cases a pretty wasteful way of spending three years.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
Turkey reported as approving Finland's NATO membership.
Time for the PKK to take refuge in Finland.
I was chatting to a journalist specialising in the Middle East who has no political bias known to me. According to her, the PKK are the only operators in the region who have what we'd call Western cultural values - equal rights for men and women, no dress code restrictions, universal education, and so on. She's depressed by finding that the "good guy" Kurds are siphoning off UN money intended to help the "even better guys" Yazidis, who are therefore stuck in refugee camps with minimal support while the Kurdish leaders get rich. But the Yazidis too are allegedly authoritarian and old-fashioned - e.g. if you're raped by a non-Yazidi, your resulting child is apparently regarded as an outcast.
Because ISIS really did try genocide on the Yazidis and Saddam was vile to the Kurds, we tend to take a benevolent view of both, while disliking the PKK because they are indisputably terrorists threatening our (autocratic) ally Turkey.
It's just one source, but it illustrates the problem in picking allies on other grounds than geopolitical convenience - and yet we have to make an effort, or we lose the right to criticise countries like Russia and China who have few pretensions to choosiness about their allies.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I don't disagree but most SNP MPs and MSPs will be terrified if she wins having endorsed Yousaf. She is also more socially and fiscally conservative than them
Putin indicted at the ICC. That is a pretty ballsy decision.
Be interesting to see if our regular Saturday troll friends pick up on why the ICC is dreadful and quite possibly linked to vaccine 'fraud' and ... fertility or whatever they're on about this week.
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
It it were framed correctly - a new target of 10% going to new FE/apprenticeships or something and drop the uni target and just let that recede. Frame it as 'less going to uni' and the papers will get hold of it as the 'thickos stay home' policy depriving young people of their academic birthright.
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
Details to be worked out but time to move away from traditional university courses of fixed lengths and go to a far more modular system of lifetime learning.
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
Perhaps not, but a lot of people are enthused by the idea of their own children going to university!
The fact that no party is proposing this is a pretty strong indication that they don't think it would be popular, isn't it?
Of course I am agreeing with you that a reduction of this monumental waste of resources _should_ be popular, but so long as politicians are too cowardly to make the case it is not going to be.
Make apprenticeships etc degrees. Put hands on skills in degrees.
A chap I know at Imperial gets tons of CS students wanting to learn shop work (lathes, welding etc)
Think hybrid qualifications….
Indeed, the highest skilled apprenticeships deliver higher average career earnings than the average degree does, except for graduates of Russell Group universities
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
Which party is proposing that?
Well, none of them. But my point is that I would expect such an offer to be politically popular. I don't think the electorate is particularly enthused by 50% of children going to university.
It it were framed correctly - a new target of 10% going to new FE/apprenticeships or something and drop the uni target and just let that recede. Frame it as 'less going to uni' and the papers will get hold of it as the 'thickos stay home' policy depriving young people of their academic birthright.
Teach them all to high academic standard. Give them all degrees - apprentices and Greats students together….
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
This would be the same Wales that voted for Brexit!
And the same Drakeford who supports the Union.
He's just not very keen on the English.
Not fair. Her's not very keen on being ordered about by people Wales didn't vote for. Not the same thing.
Is it not ? In reality, that pretty well is the same thing.
And tbf, it's him not me talking about contemporary resonances he perceives in the 'barbarous English' document.
“And it would be a requirement of any clergy training for the ministry that they would be able to offer services in linguam nostram – our language, the Welsh language.'
Is that last not already in place, in terms of services offered to the public to be bilingual?
Putin indicted at the ICC. That is a pretty ballsy decision.
Be interesting to see if our regular Saturday troll friends pick up on why the ICC is dreadful and quite possibly linked to vaccine 'fraud' and ... fertility or whatever they're on about this week.
You forgot the dead BA pilots and woke gayness undermining the West.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I don't disagree but most SNP MPs and MSPs will be terrified if she wins having endorsed Yousaf. She is also more socially and fiscally conservative than them
"most SNP MPs and MSPs ... having endorsed Yousaf"
Not true. Less than half MPs and only a little motre than half MSPs, and fewer than half of MPs pluis MSPs.
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
This would be the same Wales that voted for Brexit!
And the same Drakeford who supports the Union.
He's just not very keen on the English.
Not fair. Her's not very keen on being ordered about by people Wales didn't vote for. Not the same thing.
Is it not ? In reality, that pretty well is the same thing.
And tbf, it's him not me talking about contemporary resonances he perceives in the 'barbarous English' document.
“And it would be a requirement of any clergy training for the ministry that they would be able to offer services in linguam nostram – our language, the Welsh language.'
Is that last not already in place, in terms of services offered to the public to be bilingual?
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
And most SNP MSPs will have to vote for Forbes as FM if the members voted for her as most Conservative MPs had to back Truss as PM once the Tory membership voted for her.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
And most SNP MSPs will have to vote for Forbes as FM if the members voted for her as most Conservative MPs had to back Truss as PM once the Tory membership voted for her.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
Moving the goal posts again once you are shown to be wrong.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I don't disagree but most SNP MPs and MSPs will be terrified if she wins having endorsed Yousaf. She is also more socially and fiscally conservative than them
"most SNP MPs and MSPs ... having endorsed Yousaf"
Not true. Less than half MPs and only a little motre than half MSPs, and fewer than half of MPs pluis MSPs.
More SNP MPs have endorsed Yousaf than Forbes and Regan combined. As you say a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf too
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
A proud stirring in the breast of those who have voted Plaid in the past?
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I don't disagree but most SNP MPs and MSPs will be terrified if she wins having endorsed Yousaf. She is also more socially and fiscally conservative than them
"most SNP MPs and MSPs ... having endorsed Yousaf"
Not true. Less than half MPs and only a little motre than half MSPs, and fewer than half of MPs pluis MSPs.
More SNP MPs have endorsed Yousaf than Forbes and Regan combined. As you say a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf too
That's not what yfou said. Which was "most SNP MPs and MSPs ... having endorsed Yousaf"
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
And most SNP MSPs will have to vote for Forbes as FM if the members voted for her as most Conservative MPs had to back Truss as PM once the Tory membership voted for her.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
Moving the goal posts again once you are shown to be wrong.
You're not thinking.
Oh I am right.
Most Conservative MPs didn't vote for Ken Clarke in 2001 or Rishi Sunak in summer 2022 as most Labour MPs didn't nominate Andy Burnham in 2015 but they were still clearly ahead of and preferred to IDS, Truss and Corbyn.
In terms of MSPs, the most relevant to electing the FM, in your own words a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf
During a visit to France, Mark Drakeford said he was moved by the Pennal letter sent by Owain Glyndŵr to the king of France, Charles VI, in 1406 asking for help in his fight against English rule...
The present Prince of Wales also envisions a country free from the rule of the barbarous English?
The election is 2 years away, little change in Conservative voteshare since 2021 and 2019, Trudeau again will have to squeeze the NDP to return for a 4th term.
Trudeau still overperforming in marginal seats rich Ontario and Quebec however
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I don't disagree but most SNP MPs and MSPs will be terrified if she wins having endorsed Yousaf. She is also more socially and fiscally conservative than them
"most SNP MPs and MSPs ... having endorsed Yousaf"
Not true. Less than half MPs and only a little motre than half MSPs, and fewer than half of MPs pluis MSPs.
Yes all teh seat warmers who depend on Sturgeon for a job. Their only hope was to punt Useless, they got the stock material etc sent to them and ordered to promote it.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
Calm down.
Are we having a PB panic? What biscuits should we serve. And whose putting the chairs away this time?
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
In case it is of interest, I went to a superb restaurant in Rome called Restaurant del Bolognese in Piazza del Popolo. It was recommended in a roundabout way by Bryan Ferry. The maitre d' asked if he could order the starter for me - and a superb selection of small pastas was produced. The mains were equally impressive.
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I'm of the view that *anyone* can be scammed. Anyone. And the more intelligent you are, the more you think that you're cleverer than the scammers, the more likely you are to be scammed - especially as you're more likely to have a few bob behind you to make it worth their while.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
This ICC thing does strike me as being a bit like getting Al Capone for tax evasion. The crime, whilst serious and hideous, is not the worst thing that can be laid at Putin's door - and not just over the Ukraine invasion.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
In case it is of interest, I went to a superb restaurant in Rome called Restaurant del Bolognese in Piazza del Popolo. It was recommended in a roundabout way by Bryan Ferry. The maitre d' asked if he could order the starter for me - and a superb selection of small pastas was produced. The mains were equally impressive.
Let me know how it was if you do check it out.
Typical PB: a potential crisis mingled with posh restaurant recommendations.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I'm of the view that *anyone* can be scammed. Anyone. And the more intelligent you are, the more you think that you're cleverer than the scammers, the more likely you are to be scammed - especially as you're more likely to have a few bob behind you to make it worth their while.
The art of the con is that the conned person sells it to themselves.
Watch Sour Grapes, the documentary about the wine fraud in California. Or read Selling Hitler. In the later, the problem was the the scam became too successful - the completely shit fake diaries would have worked on gullible collectors.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I'm of the view that *anyone* can be scammed. Anyone. And the more intelligent you are, the more you think that you're cleverer than the scammers, the more likely you are to be scammed - especially as you're more likely to have a few bob behind you to make it worth their while.
It’s completely unreasonable to place the blame for these sophisticated impersonation scams onto the victims.
It’s also totally outrageous the government still doesn’t think protecting our citizens from financial crime is its responsibility. There hasn’t been any meaningful attempt to go after these bastards, so they’ve become emboldened and multiplied.
What a bunch of gullible people. Mind you they also believe in a sky fairy, so this seems inevitable.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
I'm of the view that *anyone* can be scammed. Anyone. And the more intelligent you are, the more you think that you're cleverer than the scammers, the more likely you are to be scammed - especially as you're more likely to have a few bob behind you to make it worth their while.
Doctors are known as some of the biggest suckers in the financial markets. Educated people with too much money.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
Don’t forget the can opener.
Matches, need lots of matches.
Bog Roll. Fill spare room with bog roll. Again.
Between the gold and the firearms, all your post apocalyptic shopping is sorted.
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
Don’t forget the can opener.
Matches, need lots of matches.
Bog Roll. Fill spare room with bog roll. Again.
Have you noticed a crisis always erupts round the cheltenham festival. 2020 covid lickdowns 2022 russia ukraine war now 2023 financial crisis.
I've cancelled all holiday for my team for the rest of the month.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
Massive danger for the Tories if this spreads and catches public attention. Last thing they need is comfortably off pensioners worried about their money.
A banking crisis will ignite stock market inflated by printing money for too long.
Shares in gold, canned goods and firearms are the way to go.
Don’t forget the can opener.
Matches, need lots of matches.
Bog Roll. Fill spare room with bog roll. Again.
Have you noticed a crisis always erupts round the cheltenham festival. 2020 covid lickdowns 2022 russia ukraine war now 2023 financial crisis.
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
In case it is of interest, I went to a superb restaurant in Rome called Restaurant del Bolognese in Piazza del Popolo. It was recommended in a roundabout way by Bryan Ferry. The maitre d' asked if he could order the starter for me - and a superb selection of small pastas was produced. The mains were equally impressive.
Let me know how it was if you do check it out.
Typical PB: a potential crisis mingled with posh restaurant recommendations.
I think it was in a Dornford Yates novel that a character recommended that as living conditions got worse to increase the quality of the fare.
With the example of “if reduced to cave, stock it with a plentiful supply of champagne of a good vintage.”
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
Parents want Grammar schools, so their kids can go to Grammar school. They're not so keen on their kids going to Secondary Moderns, while Mrs Sprigg's son down the road goes up a fancy Grammar.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
And most SNP MSPs will have to vote for Forbes as FM if the members voted for her as most Conservative MPs had to back Truss as PM once the Tory membership voted for her.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
Moving the goal posts again once you are shown to be wrong.
You're not thinking.
Oh I am right.
Most Conservative MPs didn't vote for Ken Clarke in 2001 or Rishi Sunak in summer 2022 as most Labour MPs didn't nominate Andy Burnham in 2015 but they were still clearly ahead of and preferred to IDS, Truss and Corbyn.
In terms of MSPs, the most relevant to electing the FM, in your own words a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf
You can't be right before AND after every time you say something different to what you did before!
Remember the illegal P&O sackings and the government saying that something would be done? To no great surprise, nothing has been done. The parent company continues to make huge profits and is a big player in Sunak's free ports idea. When the Tories talk about getting rid of red tape what they mean is that they want every worker to be at the mercy of rootless global capital. Instead of facing fine or jail, bosses who treat British workers like dirt on their shoe get a cosy relationship with the government and the opportunity to undermine rights even further. No wonder the government is so desperate for people to focus on the other boats crossing the Channel.
If that rumour is true and Kate Forbes does beat Yousaf to become FM and SNP leader it will give the SNP the same problem the Tories had with Truss and Labour had with Corbyn.
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPS or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
She will be a thousand times better than Useless would have been.
I also see that HYUFD is missing another major factor in the matter. FMs have to be positively elected by the Holyrood Parliament. It's not a God-given Divine Right like PMs are for the Tory Party memnership.
And most SNP MSPs will have to vote for Forbes as FM if the members voted for her as most Conservative MPs had to back Truss as PM once the Tory membership voted for her.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
Moving the goal posts again once you are shown to be wrong.
You're not thinking.
Oh I am right.
Most Conservative MPs didn't vote for Ken Clarke in 2001 or Rishi Sunak in summer 2022 as most Labour MPs didn't nominate Andy Burnham in 2015 but they were still clearly ahead of and preferred to IDS, Truss and Corbyn.
In terms of MSPs, the most relevant to electing the FM, in your own words a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf
You can't be right before AND after every time you say something different to what you did before!
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
In case it is of interest, I went to a superb restaurant in Rome called Restaurant del Bolognese in Piazza del Popolo. It was recommended in a roundabout way by Bryan Ferry. The maitre d' asked if he could order the starter for me - and a superb selection of small pastas was produced. The mains were equally impressive.
Let me know how it was if you do check it out.
Typical PB: a potential crisis mingled with posh restaurant recommendations.
I think it was in a Dornford Yates novel that a character recommended that as living conditions got worse to increase the quality of the fare.
With the example of “if reduced to cave, stock it with a plentiful supply of champagne of a good vintage.”
I can only add, double bottles keep better.
Sure it wasn't a translation error? "If you have to move to a house with only one cellar, stock it with decent stuff."
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
I would far rather my three kids have access to an apprenticeship than a place at university.
And I daresay Manchester could stomach a modest loss of students.
Doesn't that depend on your kids' aptitudes? You'd be pretty pissed, surely, if one was bright and academic, and wanted to be doctor, but because of circumstances could only get a job as a plumber's apprentice.
I mean, sure, it'll pay the bills. But it would be an enormous waste of their talents.
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
Parents want Grammar schools, so their kids can go to Grammar school. They're not so keen on their kids going to Secondary Moderns, while Mrs Sprigg's son down the road goes up a fancy Grammar.
As pointed out however unless you went to a Russell Group university you earn more on average with a higher apprenticeship than a degree
Slagging off the NHS is becoming a bit of a religion on here.
When you see Doctors out on strike , my sympathy for them and similarly for nurses plummets.. irrespective of how strong their case might be.
Agreed. I was making exactly the same point with regard to teachers last night.
The thing is, they probably value a pay rise/better conditions more than sympathy - and strikes are more effective at achieving the former, even if they cost a bit of the latter.
How about we all give pensioners triple locked sympathy increases each year and give the cash saved to public sector workers? A fair trade surely?
Given they complain about the lack of sympathy that sounds like a great deal for pensioners.
10% rise in my pension next month , and likely to get a pay rise into the bargain. Why you boys still moaning, why not become pensionsers.
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land
Coming to Rome has proved that everything we've got happening in the UK is happening across Europe, petrol here is more costly than back home and Italians are just as pissed off about it and accuse the oil companies of profiteering same as we do. They have illegal immigrant run car washes the same as we do and our very swanky Airbnb flat in Trastevere has advice not to raise the thermostat above 18.5 degrees to save energy. Even tomatoes are expensive, relative to normal for Italy. The guy in the frutteria was saying that they've at least doubled in price and tomatoes are way more important to Italians than they are to most other cultures.
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
In case it is of interest, I went to a superb restaurant in Rome called Restaurant del Bolognese in Piazza del Popolo. It was recommended in a roundabout way by Bryan Ferry. The maitre d' asked if he could order the starter for me - and a superb selection of small pastas was produced. The mains were equally impressive.
Let me know how it was if you do check it out.
Typical PB: a potential crisis mingled with posh restaurant recommendations.
I think it was in a Dornford Yates novel that a character recommended that as living conditions got worse to increase the quality of the fare.
With the example of “if reduced to cave, stock it with a plentiful supply of champagne of a good vintage.”
I can only add, double bottles keep better.
Sure it wasn't a translation error? "If you have to move to a house with only one cellar, stock it with decent stuff."
It was one of the ones where the characters rough it - reduced to living out of a Rolls Royce and down to one servant per person - if I recall correctly.
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
I would far rather my three kids have access to an apprenticeship than a place at university.
And I daresay Manchester could stomach a modest loss of students.
Doesn't that depend on your kids' aptitudes? You'd be pretty pissed, surely, if one was bright and academic, and wanted to be doctor, but because of circumstances could only get a job as a plumber's apprentice.
I mean, sure, it'll pay the bills. But it would be an enormous waste of their talents.
AFAIK you don't have to pay tuition fees for apprenticeships ...
I don't much care for the elderly baiting that some posters indulge in on pb.com.
There is however no doubt that there is huge generational unfairness (induced primarily by property price rises but also University tuition fees and a rotten tax system).
It would be pleasant to see political parties tackle this with more than honeyed words.
One person in recent years who did this was Jeremy Corbyn, who pledged to scrap University tuition fees and write off tuition debt. That would have been a start.
90% of over 65s never went to university at all. If that was still the case tuition fees would not have been needed.
However you cannot expect the taxpayer to subsidise all students still now 40% go to university
Every other Western European country has student fees that are more modest than ours.
We should be able to match tuition fees in the Netherlands (2,314 euros a year), Germany (250 euros a semester) or France (the average is a few hundred euro a year).
Whereas the UK's fees are more like a public (state) US University.
And continental Europe doesn't have a single university in the top 25 in the global rankings outside Switzerland.
Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA.
If you want world leading universities you need students who attend them to pay for it
Fees at ETH, Zurich ... CHF 730/Semester, about £650
(ETH is usually the highest ranked University on continental Europe).
Zurich not in the top 10 either which is solely UK and US universities
"Whereas most of the top 10 universities globally are in the UK and USA." is what you said a moment ago. Make up your mind.
PLus - it's a score of which teaching only forms a part. This thread is about teaching. Now research is important, but it's no good to the satudent paying a fee if the teaching is crap.
So you are using the wrong metric.
Personally I would vary fees so you pay more at Oxford than Manchester Metropolitan. If you think the teaching is better at the latter you can apply there instead
If you think all subjects are of equal quality in a single university you are very wrong - both in teaching and in research.
Hence the problem is 'one size fits all fees' not fees themselves.
Universities which are the highest ranked for teaching and research should be able to charge the highest fees but not lesser ranked Universities.
That applies too to courses, the highest ranked departments should be able to charge the highest fees.
As should oversubscribed courses which lead to high post graduation average earnings like economics, business, law, medicine and IT and engineering be able to charge higher fees than say humanities subjects or the creative arts
All of which sounds like a rather complicated way of the state setting prices.
Mind you, it's pretty bloody complicated as it is. If you take an English Literature degree at a rubbish university, chances are you probably won't ever pay your student load back - so you're being subsidised by those who made better decisions.
I'd like to see the state paying it's children's university fees - but the state should take a rather more informed view over how many of each sort of graduate it needs. So probably more places paid for for maths students than for English Literature students. The downside of this is the state is a pretty poor arbiter of which courses have value.
I'd be all for the state taking an informed view of how many graduates it needs. But I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis of the value of a three-year degree would result in a much lower estimate of the optimal number of graduates than the current 50% or so. And then who would break the news to the voters? Not politicians angling for re-election, that's for sure!
You reckon? I'd have thought "50% of children to go to university is far too high" is pretty much received wisdom now amongst the electorate. I reckon a government aiming for an initially modest reduction down to about 40%, allied to greater investment in apprenticeships, would be seen fairly favourably by the electorate.
As long as it doesn't affect their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter's chance of a place.
And, if you are any sort of civic leader, as long as it doesn't cause your local university, no matter how wobbly its staus, to have to close.
I would far rather my three kids have access to an apprenticeship than a place at university.
And I daresay Manchester could stomach a modest loss of students.
Doesn't that depend on your kids' aptitudes? You'd be pretty pissed, surely, if one was bright and academic, and wanted to be doctor, but because of circumstances could only get a job as a plumber's apprentice.
I mean, sure, it'll pay the bills. But it would be an enormous waste of their talents.
Yes if your child was in the top 10% academically you would want them to be a doctor or lawyer.
If they were only of average intelligence however training to be a plumber would be more rewarding for them than going to university
Comments
Being obstinate he forced his plan through, in the end.
Which was to build three houses, matching frontage. Inside they did a modern layout - imagine a tidier and simpler version of knocking about a Victorian terraced house.
The sold at a considerable premium IIRC.
In reality, that pretty well is the same thing.
And tbf, it's him not me talking about contemporary resonances he perceives in the 'barbarous English' document.
My hangover has vanished completely since I started drinking. I should do this more often.
The fact that no party is proposing this is a pretty strong indication that they don't think it would be popular, isn't it?
Of course I am agreeing with you that a reduction of this monumental waste of resources _should_ be popular, but so long as politicians are too cowardly to make the case it is not going to be.
@BritainElects
Last night's Dunblane and Bridge of Allan (Stirling) council by-election result, first preferences:
CON: 41.0% (+10.9)
SNP: 26.9% (+1.1)
LAB: 13.4% (+1.6)
LDEM: 8.9% (-0.4)
GRN: 8.7% (-7.3)
Votes cast: 4,472
Seat change: Conservative GAIN from SNP."
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1636745843767164928
A leader the members voted for but most of the party's parliamentary representatives voted against. Unfortunately for them the SNP has no mechanism for MSPs or MPs to have a VONC in their leader without member involvement like the Conservatives
And his contemporary resonances are not what you perceive:
'I was struck by the contemporary resonances it has, not in relation to what it says about internal UK matters, but the pitch of the letter is that Glyndŵr would establish a separate Welsh church with its headquarters in St David’s in south-west Wales and found two new universities, one in the north, one in the south.[...] “And it would be a requirement of any clergy training for the ministry that they would be able to offer services in linguam nostram – our language, the Welsh language.'
A chap I know at Imperial gets tons of CS students wanting to learn shop work (lathes, welding etc)
Think hybrid qualifications….
I'm certainly not enthused by my own children going to university. I'd far rather a landscape where there were good quality jobs available for school leavers.
In far too many cases university attendance acts only as a marker: this is a person who went to university, universities only take the top half of the country by intelligence, therefore this person is one of the clever half.
But the person is actually no more employable at 21 than he was at 18.
University is in many cases a pretty wasteful way of spending three years.
Because ISIS really did try genocide on the Yazidis and Saddam was vile to the Kurds, we tend to take a benevolent view of both, while disliking the PKK because they are indisputably terrorists threatening our (autocratic) ally Turkey.
It's just one source, but it illustrates the problem in picking allies on other grounds than geopolitical convenience - and yet we have to make an effort, or we lose the right to criticise countries like Russia and China who have few pretensions to choosiness about their allies.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/best-apprentices-earn-more-most-graduates
Not true. Less than half MPs and only a little motre than half MSPs, and fewer than half of MPs pluis MSPs.
Except once Truss proved a dud, Conservative MPs could threaten to have a VONC in her which SNP MSPs can't in Forbes
Con minority 51%
Lib minority 38%
Con majority 9%
Tie 1%
https://338canada.com/
You're not thinking.
I was on your winner and also Hewick to place (was a bit unlucky falling so late).
Listening to our commentary back home and you'd believe that the UK is uniquely challenged by everything that's going on, yet it's the same everywhere. I guess the difference is that it was 18 degrees and sunny here so people are happier and that definitely makes a difference.
Credit Suisse’s share price came near a record low today after a support package from the Swiss central bank failed to calm markets.
The Zurich-based bank’s shares have declined by about 7 per cent to SwFr1.81 today even after it secured an emergency loan of up to SwFr50 billion (£45 billion).
Credit Suisse executives have insisted that they have taken “decisive action” to strengthen the bank but some analysts still believe that further measures will be required to stabilise the lender.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/credit-suisse-shares-near-record-low-after-fresh-slump-gcq8gvzmx
Do make up your mind.
Most Conservative MPs didn't vote for Ken Clarke in 2001 or Rishi Sunak in summer 2022 as most Labour MPs didn't nominate Andy Burnham in 2015 but they were still clearly ahead of and preferred to IDS, Truss and Corbyn.
In terms of MSPs, the most relevant to electing the FM, in your own words a majority of SNP MSPs have endorsed Yousaf
Trudeau still overperforming in marginal seats rich Ontario and Quebec however
Hewitt was right in there a length or two down when falling.
Police are trying to track down scammers who have been impersonating the Archbishop of York and other clergy in emails asking priests and churchwardens to buy Amazon vouchers for them.
Parishes and church workers have been warned to look out for emails claiming to be from senior priests asking for financial help. Some of the messages said: “I have a request I need you to handle discreetly,” and told recipients: “I am currently busy in a prayer session, no calls so just reply to my email.”
The Times understands that staff at Bishopthorpe Palace, the seat of the Archbishop of York, received messages apparently signed by the archbishop himself asking them to purchase online gift cards and vouchers for him.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scammers-pose-as-archbishop-of-york-to-get-priests-to-buy-vouchers-l385gvs3h
A good way to launder money is to massively overpay for something.
wish to tell your mother you are no longer a Muslim?
Just the same scam so many of us are targeted with otherwise, religious or not
Let me know how it was if you do check it out.
Yousaf 1.29
Forbes 4
Regan 100
I'm of the view that *anyone* can be scammed. Anyone. And the more intelligent you are, the more you think that you're cleverer than the scammers, the more likely you are to be scammed - especially as you're more likely to have a few bob behind you to make it worth their while.
Don’t forget the can opener.
But it's something. Hopefully there will be more.
Watch Sour Grapes, the documentary about the wine fraud in California. Or read Selling Hitler. In the later, the problem was the the scam became too successful - the completely shit fake diaries would have worked on gullible collectors.
The MCC will let Putin know that if someone tries to invite him to Lords as guest, there will be severe Tut Tutting. Very severe.
@TheScreamingEagles don't be a dickhead.
It’s completely unreasonable to place the blame for these sophisticated impersonation scams onto the victims.
It’s also totally outrageous the government still doesn’t think protecting our citizens from financial crime is its responsibility. There hasn’t been any meaningful attempt to go after these bastards, so they’ve become emboldened and multiplied.
With the example of “if reduced to cave, stock it with a plentiful supply of champagne of a good vintage.”
I can only add, double bottles keep better.
Remember the illegal P&O sackings and the government saying that something would be done? To no great surprise, nothing has been done. The parent company continues to make huge profits and is a big player in Sunak's free ports idea.
When the Tories talk about getting rid of red tape what they mean is that they want every worker to be at the mercy of rootless global capital. Instead of facing fine or jail, bosses who treat British workers like dirt on their shoe get a cosy relationship with the government and the opportunity to undermine rights even further. No wonder the government is so desperate for people to focus on the other boats crossing the Channel.
I mean, sure, it'll pay the bills. But it would be an enormous waste of their talents.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/best-apprentices-earn-more-most-graduates
Good morning Malc
I posted at the end of the last thread how spring like today is in Llandudno and hoped it was the same in Ayrshire (had lots of great holidays in Largs)
However I did ask has it been revealed why Sturgeon suddenly did a runner ?
I look forward to your views
Best
"done a runner"?
Really? Getting a bit imaginative, surely.
She's still there. Not like, say, Mr Stonehouse.
The way she resigned gave that impression
How else would you like her to resign? A little bit at a time? You do it suddenly, if it's at your own choosing. Like Harold Wilson.
I am fine with any option but it certainly has plunged the SNP into a crisis
And what on earth was Yousaf doing asking a group of Ukrainian women 'where are all the men'
Utterly unbelievable and crass
I didn't see this, but aren't you just trying to find the worst possible interpretation?
Yeah, as if nobody on your side never does that to your political opponents.
Doesn#t' mean it's a question that shouldn't be asked. PBTories are alwasys complaining about media gotchas.
Oh, it was always obviously a media gotcha. But the moment they do that to someone on the left, suddenly the complaints start.
Yup - politicians and gotcha quotes are part of the land It was one of the ones where the characters rough it - reduced to living out of a Rolls Royce and down to one servant per person - if I recall correctly.
If they were only of average intelligence however training to be a plumber would be more rewarding for them than going to university