Starmer v Truss – the first PMQs – politicalbetting.com

Kick off is as usual at noon. This is a very big moment for both leaders but unfortunately, I have a longstanding family engagement in London and will not be able to watch live.
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Test0
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The battle of dull vs dull.0
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Glorious, ain't it?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:The battle of dull vs dull.
2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.
Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.0 -
Her Cabinet being full of people who want to go ahead with her agenda suggests that she has a lot of confidence, not is lacking in it.
Whether that confidence is misguided or not, time will tell.0 -
Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.4
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What is the point of closed questions (no. 10 mr Speaker)?0
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What? You think a team handpicked to thwart her at every turn was a possibility?BartholomewRoberts said:Her Cabinet being full of people who want to go ahead with her agenda suggests that she has a lot of confidence, not is lacking in it.
Whether that confidence is misguided or not, time will tell.0 -
The rest are inexperienced not terrible, so its just that one which baffles - she could have picked anyone and leaving him would not dent her standing with the right given the rest. Bizarre.MaxPB said:Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.
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3. SKS pins her down and marmalises her. 6 is a lorra questionskle4 said:
Glorious, ain't it?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:The battle of dull vs dull.
2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.
Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.0 -
She needs a better answer to the “Britannia Unchained” guff.
It ain’t gonna go away, Liz.0 -
Is Johnson there?0
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Truss against windfall tax . So Labours attack line is she’s on the side of the energy companies .1
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Don't think so. No cheers for him coming in.OldKingCole said:Is Johnson there?
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I'll say this.
She has a plan and she has ideas.
Which is a refreshing change from Boris.1 -
The poser of a question gets to ask an unannounced follow-up. It is often used tactically to trip the PM up.IshmaelZ said:What is the point of closed questions (no. 10 mr Speaker)?
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"New York Times Opinion
@nytopinion
Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"
https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/15667731518196531200 -
Unlike America...Andy_JS said:"New York Times Opinion
@nytopinion
Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"
https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/15667731518196531203 -
Yawn the NYT are so crap on the UKAndy_JS said:"New York Times Opinion
@nytopinion
Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"
https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/15667731518196531200 -
She's not going to last two years, is she? I'm not even convinced she's going to last two months on this showing.0
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I think Starmer is playing this well. He’s giving her enough respect to ask a detailed policy question. I thought Truss started well but she’s waffling in response to the Windfall Tax questions.1
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Strategic error from Truss, she says she opposes windfall taxes altogether. Error.2
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Rattled her.0
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Liz coming out swinging conjures up certain images..kle4 said:
Glorious, ain't it?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:The battle of dull vs dull.
2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.
Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.2 -
But wanting to work with Labour is refreshing.
Finally a politician whose ideas I can interrogate because at least she has some.
Fair play Liz.1 -
I'm enjoying this. Truss is better at this than Johnson (who is an overrated orator imo), but I think Starmer's hitting some resonant notes.2
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Total car crash from Truss. Not watching it, obviously.12
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Without the ERG support Truss would not be PM. She knows they can break her as they made herMaxPB said:Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.
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She needs to stop saying As Prime Minister. she already is.0
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I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.El_Capitano said:She's not going to last two years, is she?
I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.1 -
As I reported exclusively yesterday, Starmer has had speech coaching and had work done on his nose to correct his voice0
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On the 'all publicity is etc' metric, the NYT must luv PB.1
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Yes I completely agree.Slackbladder said:
I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.El_Capitano said:She's not going to last two years, is she?
I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.
I don't like her ideas at all - but she has some.
Bit of an unknown quantity I have to say.2 -
Truss freezing the cap was going to cause Labour problems . So the refusal to extend a windfall tax helps them and allows Labour to accuse her of siding with the energy companies .1
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Still in appealing to a tiny electorate smelling of wee mode.IshmaelZ said:She needs to stop saying As Prime Minister. she already is.
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She’s safe until the GE, whenever that is.El_Capitano said:She's not going to last two years, is she? I'm not even convinced she's going to last two months on this showing.
I agree, the tories chose a dud. But they’re stuck with her.0 -
What the hell is that tie
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You can't complain about tax and spend in the same breath as saying you are going to sort the COL crisis.2
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Funny line on Tax and Spend from Truss... Her problem is that most people probably prefer tax and spend to borrow and tax cut.0
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He is from St Ives...not_on_fire said:What the hell is that tie
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She has ideas. She might do very well.0
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EXC: Cabinet agreed to shelve Raab’s British Bill of Rights designed to protect against meddling ECHR in Strasbourg, The Sun can reveal.
It was due back in Commons next week.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567471503884648448
Well I am pleased about that1 -
How many wives does he have?IshmaelZ said:
He is from St Ives...not_on_fire said:What the hell is that tie
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What ideas?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:She has ideas. She might do very well.
But yes she might do better than we expect.0 -
I agree I don't think she'll last more than two years and I think her plans are awful, but it is at least slightly refreshing that she seems to actually believe at least some of what she's actually saying, unlike the relentlessly grim, clowning cynicism of Johnson.4
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I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?2
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Crystal-clear ideological divide between the two front benches once again - have to say that the effect is refreshing.
https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/15674710035502448672 -
Labour should frame the whole thing is “bailing out the energy companies”. They should say we’re all still paying, just via the debt levied on our children.nico679 said:Truss freezing the cap was going to cause Labour problems . So the refusal to extend a windfall tax helps them and allows Labour to accuse her of siding with the energy companies .
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Dunno but he should delegate tie buying choices to another one.Slackbladder said:
How many wives does he have?IshmaelZ said:
He is from St Ives...not_on_fire said:What the hell is that tie
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I quite like the idea of a truss tax: the more trusses there are in your roof, the more tax you pay.
It'll be a friendly nod back to the days of the ever-popular window tax.1 -
I wonder how much of that is legacy from Mark Thompson’s (ex BBC) time there from 2012 to 2020.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yawn the NYT are so crap on the UKAndy_JS said:"New York Times Opinion
@nytopinion
Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"
https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120
Not unlikely that the angle and contributors he would have brought in to cover UK during his tenure might have a particular slant.0 -
I think the energy price stuff will get her a hearing, and then she gets one conference speech to win over the public. Similarly this is the conference speech where Starmer can convince people he ought to be PM.Slackbladder said:
I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.El_Capitano said:She's not going to last two years, is she?
I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.
It’s a shootout.
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She is a lot calmer than Johnson which is a positive. Repeating the same answer for every question might wear thin after a while.kjh said:I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?
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The answer is 'growth' by having a larger economy its swallowed by a higher tax take.kjh said:I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?
I'm not sure it'll work, but the principle is sound 'in principle'.
It's full throated capitalism.1 -
Yes, this is not my idea of a good PM but it's a sad measure of how much Johnson has lowered the bar that so long as she takes the job seriously and doesn't lie all the time, I reckon I'll be ok with her.Slackbladder said:I'll say this.
She has a plan and she has ideas.
Which is a refreshing change from Boris.2 -
Liz can bring back honour and public service to PM, I will give her credit if she does that1
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Zinger from Theresa1
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Ms May... what a lady!!!0
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In Truss’s defence I think she’s a hard worker and won’t lie as much as Johnson .2
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Very good from May and Truss on female party leaders.5
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PM says she doesn't understand what @Ianblackford_MP position is because he wants a windfall tax on oil companies and also no more extraction of oil from the North Sea.
https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1567472259127730176
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Theresa May - nice one.1
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.0 -
Yes, but why? They can afford to dump that if they do the silly thing of withdrawing altogether. And the latter presumably doesn’t require a Commons vote.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:EXC: Cabinet agreed to shelve Raab’s British Bill of Rights designed to protect against meddling ECHR in Strasbourg, The Sun can reveal.
It was due back in Commons next week.
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567471503884648448
Well I am pleased about that
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Truss tone is so different and she seems very conciliatory and this is a welcome change0
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The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.6
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Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.1
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What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
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The NYT's anti-British stance is getting a bit embarrassing. New York City had more homicides in July than London did in the whole of the first 6 months of the year.3
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We are at a real crossroads here which is good for us all.
It's America or EU social democracy.0 -
I don't mind Coffey being a fat drunk. I do mind her being a Roman Catholic anti abortion bigot. a lot.5
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Much more concise responses which is goodBig_G_NorthWales said:Truss tone is so different and she seems very conciliatory and this is a welcome change
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What a charmless woman that labourite was.1
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They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
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useless and corrupt. oooooh.0
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Well I agree that is what she thinks will happen, but it won't. The cost is now and large. There will just be a huge debt funded by the same people she is trying to help.Slackbladder said:
The answer is 'growth' by having a larger economy its swallowed by a higher tax take.kjh said:I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?
I'm not sure it'll work, but the principle is sound 'in principle'.
It's full throated capitalism.0 -
Damn, paid for a special extra third truss in my new shed to deal with snow loading a couple of years back.JosiasJessop said:I quite like the idea of a truss tax: the more trusses there are in your roof, the more tax you pay.
It'll be a friendly nod back to the days of the ever-popular window tax.1 -
She's good. I've said she is being underestimated and written-off too early. LP questions are appearing a tad negative and uncharitable. Whether we agree with her policies or not, let's rejoice that she is no shopping-trolley.Sandpit said:Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.
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That ridiculous idiot is technically in my management chain now. I don’t think he can do too much harm but it’s certainly pushing me in the direction of a new job…HYUFD said:
Without the ERG support Truss would not be PM. She knows they can break her as they made herMaxPB said:Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.
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Was she Labour or SNPSlackbladder said:What a charmless woman that labourite was.
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That's what I was thinking after her short introductory speech. Whatever you think about her plans, and my views aren't good, after Johnson she at least brings some sort of clarity to things, which, in the short term at least, almost feels like some kind of a relief from the wandering Johnsonian opportunism and void.SouthamObserver said:The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.
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Seems like a false dichotomy to say we have to be either continental Europe or the USA.
Like when people defend the NHS by comparing it to the USA's mad approach, and neglect to consider numerous other countries that have sensible healthcare without fetishising it into a religion.5 -
Well, that's a better choice than in 2019, when it was a choice between America and Iran.SouthamObserver said:The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.
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heating oil is quite cheap atm is it not? I think I bought 1000 litres right at the peak in about April0
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Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?ping said:
They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
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I’m not going to cheerfully accept wrong headed over incompetent but I’ll certainly agree its a marginal improvement.Stocky said:
She's good. I've said she is being underestimated and written-off too early. LP questions are appearing a tad negative and uncharitable. Whether we agree with her policies or not, let's rejoice that she is no shopping-trolley.Sandpit said:Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.
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Neither. Closer to Europe than America in most ways but not a typical European country either. And there are places outside of Europe and America that are making massive investments in education, technology and infrastructure that we should be looking at too.SouthamObserver said:The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.
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True, but the voters (the bastards) will refuse to clearly decide.SouthamObserver said:The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.
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I like Truss's more direct way of answering questions compared to Johnson's bluster. Refreshing.15
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Positively Brownite PMQs. Economic battle lines drawn for next 6 months. A substantive and strategic divide, not a personality-driven tactical slanging match. Both landed their message. Starmer: tax energy companies not ordinary people. Truss: we can't tax our way to growth.
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/15674745429221457921 -
When the many energy firms went bust last year who do you think took on the excess losses? Customers and govt (yes, some via other energy firms, but de facto customers and govt).biggles said:
Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?ping said:
They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.0 -
While levying a windfall tax is neither simple, nor a panacea, ruling it out entirely is dogmatic and stupid.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
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Oh I know, but I don’t think we should have.noneoftheabove said:
When the many energy firms went bust last year who do you think took on the excess losses? Customers and govt (yes, some via other energy firms, but de facto customers and govt).biggles said:
Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?ping said:
They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
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Well we own Octopus energy for that reason. And a bank.biggles said:
Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?ping said:
They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.0 -
*blinks*IshmaelZ said:
A UCL chemist should certainly not be sympathetic to the notion of succussation, so good for her if that is so - but chiropractice? (Chiropraxis? Chiropracty?)0 -
And the railway companiesOnboardG1 said:
Well we own Octopus energy for that reason. And a bank.biggles said:
Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?ping said:
They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.biggles said:
What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms
UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.
Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.0 -
From a German TV interview
German Economy Minister Habeck can imagine parts of the economy will "simply stop producing for the time being."
Healthy0