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Starmer v Truss – the first PMQs – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 2022 in General
imageStarmer v Truss – the first PMQs – politicalbetting.com

Kick off is as usual at noon. This is a very big moment for both leaders but unfortunately, I have a longstanding family engagement in London and will not be able to watch live.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,349
    Test
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    The battle of dull vs dull.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 84,170
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    The battle of dull vs dull.

    Glorious, ain't it?

    2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.

    Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 10,825
    Her Cabinet being full of people who want to go ahead with her agenda suggests that she has a lot of confidence, not is lacking in it.

    Whether that confidence is misguided or not, time will tell.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,043
    Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    What is the point of closed questions (no. 10 mr Speaker)?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Her Cabinet being full of people who want to go ahead with her agenda suggests that she has a lot of confidence, not is lacking in it.

    Whether that confidence is misguided or not, time will tell.

    What? You think a team handpicked to thwart her at every turn was a possibility?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 84,170
    MaxPB said:

    Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.

    The rest are inexperienced not terrible, so its just that one which baffles - she could have picked anyone and leaving him would not dent her standing with the right given the rest. Bizarre.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    The battle of dull vs dull.

    Glorious, ain't it?

    2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.

    Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.
    3. SKS pins her down and marmalises her. 6 is a lorra questions
  • pingping Posts: 3,450
    edited September 2022
    She needs a better answer to the “Britannia Unchained” guff.

    It ain’t gonna go away, Liz.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,621
    Is Johnson there?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,816
    Truss against windfall tax . So Labours attack line is she’s on the side of the energy companies .
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OldKingCole said:

    Is Johnson there?

    Don't think so. No cheers for him coming in.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    I'll say this.

    She has a plan and she has ideas.

    Which is a refreshing change from Boris.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,321
    IshmaelZ said:

    What is the point of closed questions (no. 10 mr Speaker)?

    The poser of a question gets to ask an unannounced follow-up. It is often used tactically to trip the PM up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,856
    "New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion

    Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"

    https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,321
    Andy_JS said:

    "New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion

    Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"

    https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120

    Unlike America...
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    Andy_JS said:

    "New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion

    Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"

    https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120

    Yawn the NYT are so crap on the UK
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,249
    edited September 2022
    She's not going to last two years, is she? I'm not even convinced she's going to last two months on this showing.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 362
    I think Starmer is playing this well. He’s giving her enough respect to ask a detailed policy question. I thought Truss started well but she’s waffling in response to the Windfall Tax questions.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    Strategic error from Truss, she says she opposes windfall taxes altogether. Error.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Rattled her.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 36,620
    kle4 said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    The battle of dull vs dull.

    Glorious, ain't it?

    2 scenarios - liz plays it dull and terse, I'm here to deliver not quip.

    Or she over compensates as the backbenches roar incessantly and tries to come out swinging.
    Liz coming out swinging conjures up certain images..
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    But wanting to work with Labour is refreshing.

    Finally a politician whose ideas I can interrogate because at least she has some.

    Fair play Liz.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 633
    I'm enjoying this. Truss is better at this than Johnson (who is an overrated orator imo), but I think Starmer's hitting some resonant notes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 109,220
    MaxPB said:

    Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.

    Without the ERG support Truss would not be PM. She knows they can break her as they made her
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    She needs to stop saying As Prime Minister. she already is.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    El_Capitano said:

    She's not going to last two years, is she?

    I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.

    I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    As I reported exclusively yesterday, Starmer has had speech coaching and had work done on his nose to correct his voice
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 36,620
    On the 'all publicity is etc' metric, the NYT must luv PB.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    Slackbladder said:

    El_Capitano said:

    She's not going to last two years, is she?

    I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.

    I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.
    Yes I completely agree.

    I don't like her ideas at all - but she has some.

    Bit of an unknown quantity I have to say.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,816
    Truss freezing the cap was going to cause Labour problems . So the refusal to extend a windfall tax helps them and allows Labour to accuse her of siding with the energy companies .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 36,620
    IshmaelZ said:

    She needs to stop saying As Prime Minister. she already is.

    Still in appealing to a tiny electorate smelling of wee mode.
  • pingping Posts: 3,450
    edited September 2022
    El_Capitano said:

    She's not going to last two years, is she? I'm not even convinced she's going to last two months on this showing.

    She’s safe until the GE, whenever that is.

    I agree, the tories chose a dud. But they’re stuck with her.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,321
    What the hell is that tie
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    You can't complain about tax and spend in the same breath as saying you are going to sort the COL crisis.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 633
    Funny line on Tax and Spend from Truss... Her problem is that most people probably prefer tax and spend to borrow and tax cut.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    not_on_fire said:

    What the hell is that tie

    He is from St Ives...
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    She has ideas. She might do very well.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    EXC: Cabinet agreed to shelve Raab’s British Bill of Rights designed to protect against meddling ECHR in Strasbourg, The Sun can reveal.

    It was due back in Commons next week.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567471503884648448

    Well I am pleased about that
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    IshmaelZ said:

    not_on_fire said:

    What the hell is that tie

    He is from St Ives...
    How many wives does he have?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,742
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    She has ideas. She might do very well.

    What ideas?

    But yes she might do better than we expect.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,614
    edited September 2022
    I agree I don't think she'll last more than two years and I think her plans are awful, but it is at least slightly refreshing that she seems to actually believe at least some of what she's actually saying, unlike the relentlessly grim, clowning cynicism of Johnson.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,659
    I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 58,643
    Crystal-clear ideological divide between the two front benches once again - have to say that the effect is refreshing.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1567471003550244867
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    nico679 said:

    Truss freezing the cap was going to cause Labour problems . So the refusal to extend a windfall tax helps them and allows Labour to accuse her of siding with the energy companies .

    Labour should frame the whole thing is “bailing out the energy companies”. They should say we’re all still paying, just via the debt levied on our children.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Slackbladder said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    not_on_fire said:

    What the hell is that tie

    He is from St Ives...
    How many wives does he have?
    Dunno but he should delegate tie buying choices to another one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 33,655
    I quite like the idea of a truss tax: the more trusses there are in your roof, the more tax you pay.

    It'll be a friendly nod back to the days of the ever-popular window tax.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 2,086
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion

    Liz Truss will be Britain’s next prime minister — the nation’s fourth in seven years. And she’s inheriting a nation falling apart at the seams. https://nyti.ms/3ASl6ru"

    https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120

    Yawn the NYT are so crap on the UK
    I wonder how much of that is legacy from Mark Thompson’s (ex BBC) time there from 2012 to 2020.

    Not unlikely that the angle and contributors he would have brought in to cover UK during his tenure might have a particular slant.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    Slackbladder said:

    El_Capitano said:

    She's not going to last two years, is she?

    I don't know. But I'm starting to get shades of Thatcher here. Shes very clear in her principles and what she wants to do.

    I'm not sure I agree with her at all, but she could prove people wrong.
    I think the energy price stuff will get her a hearing, and then she gets one conference speech to win over the public. Similarly this is the conference speech where Starmer can convince people he ought to be PM.

    It’s a shootout.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,742
    kjh said:

    I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?

    She is a lot calmer than Johnson which is a positive. Repeating the same answer for every question might wear thin after a while.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    kjh said:

    I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?

    The answer is 'growth' by having a larger economy its swallowed by a higher tax take.

    I'm not sure it'll work, but the principle is sound 'in principle'.

    It's full throated capitalism.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 33,980
    Slackbladder said:

    I'll say this.

    She has a plan and she has ideas.

    Which is a refreshing change from Boris.

    Yes, this is not my idea of a good PM but it's a sad measure of how much Johnson has lowered the bar that so long as she takes the job seriously and doesn't lie all the time, I reckon I'll be ok with her.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    Liz can bring back honour and public service to PM, I will give her credit if she does that
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,197
    Zinger from Theresa
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    Ms May... what a lady!!!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,816
    In Truss’s defence I think she’s a hard worker and won’t lie as much as Johnson .
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 58,643
    PM says she doesn't understand what @Ianblackford_MP position is because he wants a windfall tax on oil companies and also no more extraction of oil from the North Sea.

    https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1567472259127730176
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,988
    Theresa May - nice one.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    EXC: Cabinet agreed to shelve Raab’s British Bill of Rights designed to protect against meddling ECHR in Strasbourg, The Sun can reveal.

    It was due back in Commons next week.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567471503884648448

    Well I am pleased about that

    Yes, but why? They can afford to dump that if they do the silly thing of withdrawing altogether. And the latter presumably doesn’t require a Commons vote.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,197
    Truss tone is so different and she seems very conciliatory and this is a welcome change
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 43,358
    Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,856
    edited September 2022
    The NYT's anti-British stance is getting a bit embarrassing. New York City had more homicides in July than London did in the whole of the first 6 months of the year.
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    We are at a real crossroads here which is good for us all.

    It's America or EU social democracy.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,175
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Truss tone is so different and she seems very conciliatory and this is a welcome change

    Much more concise responses which is good
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 84,170
    kjh said:

    I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?

    The future.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,598
    What a charmless woman that labourite was.
  • pingping Posts: 3,450
    edited September 2022
    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    useless and corrupt. oooooh.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,659
    Slackbladder said:

    kjh said:

    I was expecting a car crash and it isn't, but who the hell is going to pay for the energy cap?

    The answer is 'growth' by having a larger economy its swallowed by a higher tax take.

    I'm not sure it'll work, but the principle is sound 'in principle'.

    It's full throated capitalism.
    Well I agree that is what she thinks will happen, but it won't. The cost is now and large. There will just be a huge debt funded by the same people she is trying to help.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 30,962
    JosiasJessop said:

    I quite like the idea of a truss tax: the more trusses there are in your roof, the more tax you pay.

    It'll be a friendly nod back to the days of the ever-popular window tax.

    Damn, paid for a special extra third truss in my new shed to deal with snow loading a couple of years back.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,988
    edited September 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.

    She's good. I've said she is being underestimated and written-off too early. LP questions are appearing a tad negative and uncharitable. Whether we agree with her policies or not, let's rejoice that she is no shopping-trolley.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Not having big hitters like Gove and Rishi in the Cabinet is detrimental to the running of the nation, giving a big job like BIES to JRM is plain idiotic. I'm trying to be fair to Liz and give her a chance but that appointment is terrible and shows a lack of courage to face down the ERG now that she's in place.

    Without the ERG support Truss would not be PM. She knows they can break her as they made her
    That ridiculous idiot is technically in my management chain now. I don’t think he can do too much harm but it’s certainly pushing me in the direction of a new job…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,856
    Slackbladder said:

    What a charmless woman that labourite was.

    Was she Labour or SNP
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,614
    edited September 2022
    SouthamObserver said:

    The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.

    That's what I was thinking after her short introductory speech. Whatever you think about her plans, and my views aren't good, after Johnson she at least brings some sort of clarity to things, which, in the short term at least, almost feels like some kind of a relief from the wandering Johnsonian opportunism and void.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 49,080
    Dura_Ace said:

    Total car crash from Truss. Not watching it, obviously.

    That is your specialist subject, though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 33,655
    SouthamObserver said:

    The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.

    Well, that's a better choice than in 2019, when it was a choice between America and Iran. ;)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 30,962
    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't mind Coffey being a fat drunk. I do mind her being a Roman Catholic anti abortion bigot. a lot.

    Where does she stand on homoeopathy?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    heating oil is quite cheap atm is it not? I think I bought 1000 litres right at the peak in about April
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    ping said:

    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
    Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?

  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Watching on a delay. Three questions in, and I’m liking this Prime Minister already.

    She's good. I've said she is being underestimated and written-off too early. LP questions are appearing a tad negative and uncharitable. Whether we agree with her policies or not, let's rejoice that she is no shopping-trolley.
    I’m not going to cheerfully accept wrong headed over incompetent but I’ll certainly agree its a marginal improvement.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,854
    SouthamObserver said:

    The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.

    Neither. Closer to Europe than America in most ways but not a typical European country either. And there are places outside of Europe and America that are making massive investments in education, technology and infrastructure that we should be looking at too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't mind Coffey being a fat drunk. I do mind her being a Roman Catholic anti abortion bigot. a lot.

    Where does she stand on homoeopathy?
    She seems to think chiropractors are mainstream.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    SouthamObserver said:

    The dividing lines are very sharp. This is good. The UK (actually, England) needs to decide whether it wants to be America or Europe.

    True, but the voters (the bastards) will refuse to clearly decide.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 58,643
    Positively Brownite PMQs. Economic battle lines drawn for next 6 months. A substantive and strategic divide, not a personality-driven tactical slanging match. Both landed their message. Starmer: tax energy companies not ordinary people. Truss: we can't tax our way to growth.

    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1567474542922145792
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,854
    biggles said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
    Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?

    When the many energy firms went bust last year who do you think took on the excess losses? Customers and govt (yes, some via other energy firms, but de facto customers and govt).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 49,080
    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    While levying a windfall tax is neither simple, nor a panacea, ruling it out entirely is dogmatic and stupid.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 3,012
    noneoftheabove said:

    biggles said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
    Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?

    When the many energy firms went bust last year who do you think took on the excess losses? Customers and govt (yes, some via other energy firms, but de facto customers and govt).
    Oh I know, but I don’t think we should have.

  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,230
    biggles said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
    Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?

    Well we own Octopus energy for that reason. And a bank.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 30,962
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't mind Coffey being a fat drunk. I do mind her being a Roman Catholic anti abortion bigot. a lot.

    Where does she stand on homoeopathy?
    She seems to think chiropractors are mainstream.
    *blinks*

    A UCL chemist should certainly not be sympathetic to the notion of succussation, so good for her if that is so - but chiropractice? (Chiropraxis? Chiropracty?)
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    OnboardG1 said:

    biggles said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/uk-predicts-up-to-170-billion-excess-profits-for-energy-firms

    UK gas producers and electricity generators may make excess profits totaling as much as £170 billion ($199 billion) over the next two years, according to Treasury estimates that lay bare the revenue-raising potential of a windfall tax.

    Treasury officials will deliver the assessment to the next prime minister when they take office on Sept. 6, according to a person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal calculations.

    What is an “excess profit”? Who is to say it is “excess”? How much profit is one allowed to make? Might one not reframe this as “investment in energy sector to soar, and pension funds to benefit, as energy sector firms make record profit”?
    They’re unearned war profits. Easily measured.

    See Sunak’s speech, earlier in the year.
    Is the reverse then true? Should the Gvt underwrite “excess losses”?

    Well we own Octopus energy for that reason. And a bank.
    And the railway companies
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    From a German TV interview
    German Economy Minister Habeck can imagine parts of the economy will "simply stop producing for the time being."
    Healthy
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