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Read the wording carefully on US Senate bets – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    HYUFD said:

    Interest rates rise by 0.5%, biggest rise for 27 years.

    Will be interesting to see if it has any impact on house prices

    It will, but not just yet.

    I am looking to sell a property in Fratton, Portsmouth and the Estate Agent suggested that he is expecting things to get a little bit naughty in the early part of next year. The value of the property has increased from £220k in 2019 to a shade under £300k today. That is unsustainable.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,182
    The US does seem to have a deeply engrained, more positive culture toward entrepreneurship and I presume therefore financial risk.

    That made sense during the days of frontier expansion, but perhaps less so now.

    Nevertheless, it would good to figure out how much the UK could get some of that. It seems to be a factor independent of the actual regulatory and perhaps even fiscal burden.
  • Alistair said:

    And this is why inflation linked bonds should always form part og a personal investment portfolio
    By luck, I do have a reasonable sum in index-linked bonds, but I doubt that you can buy them at the moment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838
    MaxPB said:

    Maybe, but look at the underlying message there - couple who want to start a family are now unlikely to do so because they can't afford to move into their desired house.

    @Leon is right, the nation needs to have a rethink on how we approach old age care provision. The current mandate the NHS has to extend life at any cost is going to bankrupt the nation. Providing expensive care for a 90 year old so they can live for 6 more months results in higher taxes and lower income for working age people and less availability of housing which pushes up housing costs.

    You may dismiss these people but we need families and we need policies to help couples become families. Not just laugh at their misfortune.
    The average age at which most people own a property is 39 not 69.

    We don't need to kill off the likes of Mr and Mrs BigG as Leon was suggesting earlier.

    We also need tighter control of immigration
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    The US does seem to have a deeply engrained, more positive culture toward entrepreneurship and I presume therefore financial risk.

    That made sense during the days of frontier expansion, but perhaps less so now.

    Nevertheless, it would good to figure out how much the UK could get some of that. It seems to be a factor independent of the actual regulatory and perhaps even fiscal burden.

    I suppose the flip side is that we have less examples like Theranos or Nikola Motors over here (although we have our own Enrons). It’s not an easy balance between risk aversion and recklessness.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    tlg86 said:

    Sure, inflation will almost certainly be lower this time next year, but we'll still be paying huge energy bills.
    The cumulative effect of 13% inflation for year one, 9% for year 2, 5% for year three are nonetheless horrendous.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Take pity on today’s 30 somethings who seem barely to have known an economy not in crisis.

    I mean, pity me all you want, but I think we'd have preferred people allowing for real political solutions, like mild social democracy, over pity.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,691
    TOPPING said:

    Long may it last. I still have my Brexit (= dollar weighted) position on. Has not quite let me down albeit with a few wobbles.

    A friend just showed me the long term chart of the S&P v FTSE and the difference in perf (S&P = 5x FTSE) is extraordinary.
    Be careful - part of that is tech weighting.

    I suspect I could cut the data in a defensible way that looks much better for the FTSE
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited August 2022

    By luck, I do have a reasonable sum in index-linked bonds, but I doubt that you can buy them at the moment.
    Not the National Savings ones; I was just checking this morning. Best that can be had is that existing ones can be carried over on a similar basis when they mature (inflation plus token interest element).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,513
    OnboardG1 said:

    I’ll go past the partisan jab to say: home ownership has generally been a lead in to voting Tory. If they don’t vote Tory now they might once they have kids. If they can’t start a family on their schedule because of economics they’ll boot the incumbent government at the ballot box when they might have been swayed to the Tories in the Cameron years.
    The key to the "people like them" bit was that they live in Brighton.

    Tories tend to find somewhere that they can afford and make the most of things.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795

    Take pity on today’s 30 somethings who seem barely to have known an economy not in crisis.

    One issue, is that we do seem to have the view nowadays that the government should be able to 'fix' any problem out there.

    And they don;'t have the power to solve this one .
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,905
    edited August 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Maybe, but look at the underlying message there - couple who want to start a family are now unlikely to do so because they can't afford to move into their desired house.

    @Leon is right, the nation needs to have a rethink on how we approach old age care provision. The current mandate the NHS has to extend life at any cost is going to bankrupt the nation. Providing expensive care for a 90 year old so they can live for 6 more months results in higher taxes and lower income for working age people and less availability of housing which pushes up housing costs.

    You may dismiss these people but we need families and we need policies to help couples become families. Not just laugh at their misfortune.
    On an individual level I am helping to prop up an 88 year old, a 92 year old and a 89 year old with dementia.

    Whilst I wouldn't ever want to farm them out I do wonder if they are having much fun and whether all the medical interventions are productive.

    The 92 year old is fine and active, but the 88 year old is depressed and the 89 year old has bouts of saying 'I want to be dead' over and over, but is not compus mentis enough to be allowed to say so officially.

    Meanwhile the generation below has to pay for it all, mostly through lost opportunities in this case but also in funding the NHS.

    It really is the mother of all moral dilemmas.
  • Take pity on today’s 30 somethings who seem barely to have known an economy not in crisis.

    To think when I took out a mortgage 22 years ago interest rates were 6% and I was scarred by double digit interest rates from my youth.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    It will, but not just yet.

    I am looking to sell a property in Fratton, Portsmouth and the Estate Agent suggested that he is expecting things to get a little bit naughty in the early part of next year. The value of the property has increased from £220k in 2019 to a shade under £300k today. That is unsustainable.
    I sold my previois home for 300k at thr start of 2019. It sold for 400k at the start of this year.

    Absolutely bonkers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,513
    MaxPB said:

    Maybe, but look at the underlying message there - couple who want to start a family are now unlikely to do so because they can't afford to move into their desired house.

    @Leon is right, the nation needs to have a rethink on how we approach old age care provision. The current mandate the NHS has to extend life at any cost is going to bankrupt the nation. Providing expensive care for a 90 year old so they can live for 6 more months results in higher taxes and lower income for working age people and less availability of housing which pushes up housing costs.

    You may dismiss these people but we need families and we need policies to help couples become families. Not just laugh at their misfortune.
    Hang on, won't this be good for people on the ladder looking to move up? If house prices fall, the gaps become smaller.

    Obviously not a good time for anyone looking to cash-in their chips.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    The US does seem to have a deeply engrained, more positive culture toward entrepreneurship and I presume therefore financial risk.

    That made sense during the days of frontier expansion, but perhaps less so now.

    Nevertheless, it would good to figure out how much the UK could get some of that. It seems to be a factor independent of the actual regulatory and perhaps even fiscal burden.

    It changed here post 2008 IMO, we turned into a much more meek society hell bent on protecting what little we have rather than taking risks to expand.

    The whole government and media rhetoric around casino banking and such didn't help. I also think not letting RBS and HBOS go bankrupt didn't help. RBS is still stinking up the equity markets with a lower book value market cap, Lloyds is slightly better.

    That renewal of companies post 2008 didn't happen, we are still left with a load of zombie companies carrying debt that they can just about service but unable to invest so they just stay where they are. Hopefully rising rates will finally put them out of their misery and newer and better companies will take their place.

    Finally, the UK has a significant number of defined benefit pensioners either retired or about to retire. This alone limits the amount of risk companies can take as a significant proportion of their cost base is now essentially paid to employees who have zero productivity.

    One, very controversial, thing the government could do is pass primary legislation to restate all defined benefit schemes as defined contribution with a formula to convert them, state and private.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    IshmaelZ said:

    Irrespective of the merits of your general position, the dishonesty of that purported quotation makes you look a complete arse.
    It was merely the point at which anyone who hadn't already been convinced should have needed to stop reading.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,195

    By luck, I do have a reasonable sum in index-linked bonds, but I doubt that you can buy them at the moment.
    Available, just none of those available are as good the NS&I Index linked certificates that are now only available for renewals.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited August 2022

    To think when I took out a mortgage 22 years ago interest rates were 6% and I was scarred by double digit interest rates from my youth.
    ...
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    tlg86 said:

    The key to the "people like them" bit was that they live in Brighton.

    Tories tend to find somewhere that they can afford and make the most of things.
    They’re more likely to be Greens in Brighton. When did you last look at the election results?

    As to the latter part… ok sure whatever. I’m sure there are no prospective Tories hoping for a move to a larger property who are now cross that they might struggle to do so.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Can I second those PB-ers who are asking: where the heck do I put cash to hedge against inflation? Somewhere reasonably liquid but safe from a crash?

    No, because that is the cakeist holy grail. Put half in shares, half in cash or bonds, and fuhgeddaboutit for 10 years. as long as there is a market for high end lapidary sex toys that's your time horizon is it not?

    Also see https://monevator.com/

    key takeaway of which is just buy tracker funds, you don't want to be paying 1.5% a year of your stash to a chinless wealth manager
  • Leon said:

    I’m evil for confronting demographic reality, and trying to make the lives of the young better?

    Get a grip. This is pathetic. This is why we can’t have this debate because people like you start weeping

    I have kids in their teens and I have parents in their 80s. If the latter have to die to help the former so be it. We are spending far too much time and money and political energy on the needs of the very old
    Perhaps it's time for these:



  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,994
    IshmaelZ said:

    Your reminder of this piece on what it is like, on average, dying of old age in a US hospital

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/

    Personally I'd be happy to sign up now to an irrevocable, palliatave care only after 80 deal, in the full knowledge that I might feel a bit different about it once the euphoria of my 79th birthday party has worn off.
    The euphoria, such as it was, has just worn off for me so I won't sign up to your whizzo scheme if it's all the same to you.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Available, just none of those available are as good the NS&I Index linked certificates that are now only available for renewals.
    But all rolling over from RPI + 2% to CPI + .00000000001%. still worth having mind.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    MaxPB said:

    It changed here post 2008 IMO, we turned into a much more meek society hell bent on protecting what little we have rather than taking risks to expand.

    The whole government and media rhetoric around casino banking and such didn't help. I also think not letting RBS and HBOS go bankrupt didn't help. RBS is still stinking up the equity markets with a lower book value market cap, Lloyds is slightly better.

    That renewal of companies post 2008 didn't happen, we are still left with a load of zombie companies carrying debt that they can just about service but unable to invest so they just stay where they are. Hopefully rising rates will finally put them out of their misery and newer and better companies will take their place.

    Finally, the UK has a significant number of defined benefit pensioners either retired or about to retire. This alone limits the amount of risk companies can take as a significant proportion of their cost base is now essentially paid to employees who have zero productivity.

    One, very controversial, thing the government could do is pass primary legislation to restate all defined benefit schemes as defined contribution with a formula to convert them, state and private.
    I've come up with a number of fixes that people claim are electoral suicide - wealth tax on residential property say - but nothing as electorally toxic as that
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148
    HYUFD said:

    The average age at which most people own a property is 39 not 69.

    We don't need to kill off the likes of Mr and Mrs BigG as Leon was suggesting earlier.

    We also need tighter control of immigration
    39 is a bit late to start a family, and if it's the average then a lot of people still won't open a property even by then.

    It would be a good sign if that age was brought down.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,347
    Leon said:

    If these BoE predictions pan out, and if they are mirrored across the West, then the pressure on Ukraine to sue for a bitter peace will be irresistible

    I see Marine Le Pen is arguing this in France already. She is not entirely stupid: she sees the political opportunity

    And it could get worse. Putin could shut off all gas and oil and see if we blink first. I suspect we would

    And when Ukraine has given up territory what you do propose we do the next time Putin decides to expand his "Russian Empire"?

    People arguing that Ukraine should cede territory are essentially saying "third time lucky" to Ukraine. No previous agreement has been upheld by Russia, why should anyone trust Russia now?

    If we want to end the war the best way is to arm Ukraine so that they can do so on their terms, not give in to Russia.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    IshmaelZ said:

    Your reminder of this piece on what it is like, on average, dying of old age in a US hospital

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/

    Personally I'd be happy to sign up now to an irrevocable, palliatave care only after 80 deal, in the full knowledge that I might feel a bit different about it once the euphoria of my 79th birthday party has worn off.
    My thoughts exactly. It should be “palliative care only” for anyone over 80

    80, ffs. It’s not 60. It’s 80. You’ve had your three score years and ten PLUS TEN

    Another thing: by the state guaranteeing to take over all health care for everyone even to the age of 120 - we have disincentivised having kids. People used to have kids partly so they’d have someone to look after them when they’re old. Now the state does that, no one has kids, we are all getting older and dying. It is absurd. We’ve got it all wrong
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,195
    Alistair said:

    I sold my previois home for 300k at thr start of 2019. It sold for 400k at the start of this year.

    Absolutely bonkers.
    Utility of houses has changed significantly with working from home. If it was a reasonable sized home in a nice environment away from commuter-ville then that could be sustainable.

    Small flat whose main benefit is proximity to jobs, prices should be significantly down.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    One issue, is that we do seem to have the view nowadays that the government should be able to 'fix' any problem out there.

    And they don;'t have the power to solve this one .
    Government doesn't have the power to "solve" this - but it does have the power to alleviate the negative impact on especially the poorest individuals.

    And the reason that people believe governments should be able to fix many problems is that it demonstrably can - we had a post war period where it was shown that social programmes and public spending alongside private business and more equitable wealth redistribution could drastically change the standards of living. The NHS, the New Deal, public housing and public education. Hell, there was even a point where there was enough international agreement that destroying the planet is a bad idea to fix the hole in the Ozone.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,416
    HYUFD said:

    The average age at which most people own a property is 39 not 69.

    We don't need to kill off the likes of Mr and Mrs BigG as Leon was suggesting earlier.

    We also need tighter control of immigration
    We've "regained control", what are your Party doing about it aside from talking tough and using Rwanda while allowing hundreds of thousands into the country.

    Personally I have no problem with inward migration. I think we need to concentrate on the infrastructure and homes to meet the demands of our new citizens.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    glw said:

    And when Ukraine has given up territory what you do propose we do the next time Putin decides to expand his "Russian Empire"?

    People arguing that Ukraine should cede territory are essentially saying "third time lucky" to Ukraine. No previous agreement has been upheld by Russia, why should anyone trust Russia now?

    If we want to end the war the best way is to arm Ukraine so that they can do so on their terms, not give in to Russia.

    I AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THAT

    Check my comments

    I am merely observing that with the awful economic prospectus the tacit pressure from the west, on Ukraine, to make a bad peace might be irresistible
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    eek said:

    I've come up with a number of fixes that people claim are electoral suicide - wealth tax on residential property say - but nothing as electorally toxic as that
    Oh yeah it's absolute electoral poison but these are the kinds of radical things that need to change in the UK or we're in for 40-50 years of managed decline while the 60+ year olds die off.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Driver said:

    It was merely the point at which anyone who hadn't already been convinced should have needed to stop reading.
    No, it was a truly shitty little subterfuge.

    for new readers, he truncated "Anyway the neo-Nazis of the Ukrainian army's Azov Regiment..." to "Anyway the neo-Nazis of the Ukrainian army..."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    IshmaelZ said:

    No, because that is the cakeist holy grail. Put half in shares, half in cash or bonds, and fuhgeddaboutit for 10 years. as long as there is a market for high end lapidary sex toys that's your time horizon is it not?

    Also see https://monevator.com/

    key takeaway of which is just buy tracker funds, you don't want to be paying 1.5% a year of your stash to a chinless wealth manager
    Thanks. That sounds quite wise
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,447
    Nigelb said:

    .

    If Jenkins were to be taken seriously, he'd be a dangerous fool.
    As it is, he's a fairly harmless eccentric who occasionally says interesting things.
    Jenkins is the kind of man who is quite happy to "cement evil", as Joachim Gauke put it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,655

    The US does seem to have a deeply engrained, more positive culture toward entrepreneurship and I presume therefore financial risk.

    That made sense during the days of frontier expansion, but perhaps less so now.

    Nevertheless, it would good to figure out how much the UK could get some of that. It seems to be a factor independent of the actual regulatory and perhaps even fiscal burden.

    Governments have a role to play, and successive UK Governments have failed to support British businesses in recent times, and for most of the last century, if they ever did. And Brexit hasn't really changed that. I don't really blame Ministers - I think it comes from the Civil service. Could be wrong.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,447
    glw said:

    And when Ukraine has given up territory what you do propose we do the next time Putin decides to expand his "Russian Empire"?

    People arguing that Ukraine should cede territory are essentially saying "third time lucky" to Ukraine. No previous agreement has been upheld by Russia, why should anyone trust Russia now?

    If we want to end the war the best way is to arm Ukraine so that they can do so on their terms, not give in to Russia.

    Once Kherson goes, I suspect we'll see the Russian position collapse like a pack of cards.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    My thoughts exactly. It should be “palliative care only” for anyone over 80

    80, ffs. It’s not 60. It’s 80. You’ve had your three score years and ten PLUS TEN

    Another thing: by the state guaranteeing to take over all health care for everyone even to the age of 120 - we have disincentivised having kids. People used to have kids partly so they’d have someone to look after them when they’re old. Now the state does that, no one has kids, we are all getting older and dying. It is absurd. We’ve got it all wrong
    Famously the introduction of the NHS and the cradle to grave welfare state saw an immediate slump in UK births.
  • One issue, is that we do seem to have the view nowadays that the government should be able to 'fix' any problem out there.

    And they don;'t have the power to solve this one .
    I had my doubts about bailing out the banks (I understood why it happened) but ever since then governments are faced with angry electorates saying 'well you bailed out the banks, you should intervene here.'
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    HYUFD said:

    The average age at which most people own a property is 39 not 69.

    We don't need to kill off the likes of Mr and Mrs BigG as Leon was suggesting earlier.

    We also need tighter control of immigration
    Pretty much everyone I grew up with was on the property ladder by thirty. Some of us were onto rung two or three of the ladder by that age. Mortgage rates were horrendous, but the initial purchase prices of properties were not so daunting.

    We cut our cloth to suit. No one had to worry about lease deals on new Range Rovers. Repaying a modest bank loan for a used Rover 216 or cash up front on an old Austin Metro eased that pain.Takeaways and eating out was a rare treat and not a daily occurrence. A round for six was around a fiver, in the mid/late 1980s. We never had it so good!

    Mind you, I'm not sure where tighter control of immigration comes into the equation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,447
    edited August 2022
    Dynamo said:

    So you are pro-revanchist. (That doesn't in itself mean you're wrong, but we might as well use words right.)

    Anyway the neo-Nazis of the Ukrainian army's Azov Regiment already control a portion of the Donbas, so if the position is not yet "excellent" does it count as "quite good" maybe? Would you say that to people who live there? If you think it's "plain" that it would be supertastic for the Ukrainian armed forces to reconquer the Crimea and re-establish the position created by Khrushchev in the 1950s, then there's no need to argue for the proposition against dimwits like me. The same may be true of the notion that a demonic Putin wants to fly the Russian flag over Belarus.

    Perhaps Khrushchev was looking a long way into the future (all the way to BЯexit and Scottish Iиdependeиce?*) when he said that if he were British he would vote Tory.

    * British politicians known for cooperating up to their eyeballs with Russia Today include Nigel Farage and Alec Salmond, as well as George Galloway. I can't think of any who were pro-Remain and pro-Union. Funny that.
    What I want to see happen when Ukraine takes back its territories is for people like you to get a bullet through the head.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Utility of houses has changed significantly with working from home. If it was a reasonable sized home in a nice environment away from commuter-ville then that could be sustainable.

    Small flat whose main benefit is proximity to jobs, prices should be significantly down.
    Small two bedroom double upper with a tiny garden who's main feature is proximity to centre of the city
  • Taz said:

    We've "regained control", what are your Party doing about it aside from talking tough and using Rwanda while allowing hundreds of thousands into the country.

    Personally I have no problem with inward migration. I think we need to concentrate on the infrastructure and homes to meet the demands of our new citizens.
    And that's increasingly the mood of the nation. Here's an interesting graph;



    https://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1555118652768354306

    The really interesting thing to me is that the downtrend in support for "cut immigration a lot" started in 2013ish, and there's not much of a break of trend since- including in 2016.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,347
    Leon said:

    I AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THAT

    Check my comments

    I am merely observing that with the awful economic prospectus the tacit pressure from the west, on Ukraine, to make a bad peace might be irresistible
    It won't be a bad peace, it will merely be a pause until Putin goes for the rest of Ukraine, or the territory of some other country. Putin must be defeated.
  • Utility of houses has changed significantly with working from home. If it was a reasonable sized home in a nice environment away from commuter-ville then that could be sustainable.

    Small flat whose main benefit is proximity to jobs, prices should be significantly down.
    Except that with the price of fuel rocketing, winter back at the office might offer substantial cost savings as the firm pays for the central heating.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,655

    One issue, is that we do seem to have the view nowadays that the government should be able to 'fix' any problem out there.

    And they don;'t have the power to solve this one .
    It will be solved by people creating value. The Government plays an important role in setting the tone, and then getting out of the way, and trying not to fuck it up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    I had my doubts about bailing out the banks (I understood why it happened) but ever since then governments are faced with angry electorates saying 'well you bailed out the banks, you should intervene here.'
    The government should have stood behind depositors at 100% and then let RBS and HBOS go bankrupt.
  • Sean_F said:

    What I want to see happen when Ukraine takes back its territories is for people like you to get a bullet through the head.
    Could be tricky to arrange if he's working in London for Amnesty
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    IshmaelZ said:

    No, it was a truly shitty little subterfuge.

    for new readers, he truncated "Anyway the neo-Nazis of the Ukrainian army's Azov Regiment..." to "Anyway the neo-Nazis of the Ukrainian army..."
    The part is part of the whole...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,655

    Could be tricky to arrange if he's working in London for Amnesty
    It's also extremely unpleasant.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898
    ...

    On an individual level I am helping to prop up an 88 year old, a 92 year old and a 89 year old with dementia.

    Whilst I wouldn't ever want to farm them out I do wonder if they are having much fun and whether all the medical interventions are productive.

    The 92 year old is fine and active, but the 88 year old is depressed and the 89 year old has bouts of saying 'I want to be dead' over and over, but is not compus mentis enough to be allowed to say so officially.

    Meanwhile the generation below has to pay for it all, mostly through lost opportunities in this case but also in funding the NHS.

    It really is the mother of all moral dilemmas.
    Longer term we are going to have to look at compulsory living wills, say at age 60, to define what we want out of our old age. And if we choose to continue existing, no matter what the quality of life, then we are going to have to pay for it.
    I also think we need to rethink housing. More communal, independent living in dedicated elderly flats, with some shared social facilities and wardens, would do wonders for mental health.
    Rather than expecting folk to rattle around in a home too large till they become lonely, isolated,
    depressed and unable to cope. And then banged off to an expensive care home.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795

    I had my doubts about bailing out the banks (I understood why it happened) but ever since then governments are faced with angry electorates saying 'well you bailed out the banks, you should intervene here.'
    We are used to governments saying 'whatever it takes'. It happened with the banks, it happened with COVID, it's now going to happen with energy costs.

    The decade long low interest rate/flow of cheap money was always going to store up issues.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Driver said:

    The part is part of the whole...
    jerk
  • It's also extremely unpleasant.
    So is support for Putin
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,474
    MaxPB said:

    It changed here post 2008 IMO, we turned into a much more meek society hell bent on protecting what little we have rather than taking risks to expand.

    The whole government and media rhetoric around casino banking and such didn't help. I also think not letting RBS and HBOS go bankrupt didn't help. RBS is still stinking up the equity markets with a lower book value market cap, Lloyds is slightly better.

    That renewal of companies post 2008 didn't happen, we are still left with a load of zombie companies carrying debt that they can just about service but unable to invest so they just stay where they are. Hopefully rising rates will finally put them out of their misery and newer and better companies will take their place.

    Finally, the UK has a significant number of defined benefit pensioners either retired or about to retire. This alone limits the amount of risk companies can take as a significant proportion of their cost base is now essentially paid to employees who have zero productivity.

    One, very controversial, thing the government could do is pass primary legislation to restate all defined benefit schemes as defined contribution with a formula to convert them, state and private.
    I rather (no very much ) like your last 2 paras @maxpb. DB pensions are a drag on business. We need some original thought. It would also give those pensioners some flexibility with their funds which could also stimulate the economy (assuming they weren't all boring and just bought an annuity).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,148

    And that's increasingly the mood of the nation. Here's an interesting graph;



    https://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1555118652768354306

    The really interesting thing to me is that the downtrend in support for "cut immigration a lot" started in 2013ish, and there's not much of a break of trend since- including in 2016.
    That looks like a methodology change in the series in 2013. Phone poll to online?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,655

    So is support for Putin
    There is (thank goodness) a wide variety of positions on every subject at PB. We disagree passionately on many things, but hopefully we can get by without wishing each other to be terminated.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,385
    Liz Truss´s comments on the independence of the Bank of England are going to cost Brits a lot of money. It really is back to the Seventies: weak fiscal policy and the undermining of monetary policy without any understanding of how you can be credible to the markets and why you need to be.

    The Tories will try and sell the "its a global problem" line for all that they are worth. Unfortunately Britain will be at the bottom of the pile and that really is the result of their exceptionally poor policy choices.

    The Bond market is going to kill off the Tories, quite possibly for a generation.

    "Never glad, confident morning again"
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,647
    Leon said:

    Can I second those PB-ers who are asking: where the heck do I put cash to hedge against inflation? Somewhere reasonably liquid but safe from a crash?

    Try one of the wealth-preservation funds, e.g:

    https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/capital-gearing-trust-plc-ord-25p-shares/company-information

    (There are others. This is not financial advice. I do not hold this fund)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    We also need to get real about demented old people. Someone with severe Alzheimer's in their 80s and 90s should be given a huge whack of numbing morphine to imbibe, or not, and at that point the state has paid its debt, and now they have to take their chances

    Instead, at vast expense to everyone - emotionally as well as financially - we keep them alive for years. Which is lovely and humane and kind, but is it? Is it even humane - to them? Or do we do it to make ourselves feel better for no good reason?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    Sean_F said:

    What I want to see happen when Ukraine takes back its territories is for people like you to get a bullet through the head.
    A more fitting punishment would be to force them to watch all Donald Trump's speeches on a loop, with the subtitle 'This is how you come across' flashing at them all the time.

    It would have much the same effect but be slower and a better deterrent.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    Leon said:

    We also need to get real about demented old people. Someone with severe Alzheimer's in their 80s and 90s should be given a huge whack of numbing morphine to imbibe, or not, and at that point the state has paid its debt, and now they have to take their chances

    Instead, at vast expense to everyone - emotionally as well as financially - we keep them alive for years. Which is lovely and humane and kind, but is it? Is it even humane - to them? Or do we do it to make ourselves feel better for no good reason?

    What about demented middle-aged people?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    ydoethur said:

    What about demented middle-aged people?
    Personally, I'd cut them a bit of slack
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,447
    edited August 2022
    ydoethur said:

    A more fitting punishment would be to force them to watch all Donald Trump's speeches on a loop, with the subtitle 'This is how you come across' flashing at them all the time.

    It would have much the same effect but be slower and a better deterrent.
    That would work.

    In the words of Gus Fring "A bullet through the head is too humane."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838

    And that's increasingly the mood of the nation. Here's an interesting graph;



    https://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1555118652768354306

    The really interesting thing to me is that the downtrend in support for "cut immigration a lot" started in 2013ish, and there's not much of a break of trend since- including in 2016.
    On that chart reducing immigration still has about a 30% lead over increasing immigration
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149

    Are you really that bitter
    I think the target of your ire should be @Leon .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    Leon said:

    Personally, I'd cut them a bit of slack
    Never heard cocaine called that before.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    What about demented middle-aged people?
    You want to abolish the entire DFE?
  • ydoethur said:

    What about demented middle-aged people?
    Let them carry on working for Amnesty
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    IshmaelZ said:

    You want to abolish the entire DFE?
    *Thinks carefully*

    Well, that would be an acceptable compromise between letting them carry and what I actually want to do to them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838

    I had my doubts about bailing out the banks (I understood why it happened) but ever since then governments are faced with angry electorates saying 'well you bailed out the banks, you should intervene here.'
    If the US House of Representatives had stuck by its first vote in 2008 against the bank bailout, virtually the whole lot would have gone under, not just Lehmans
  • IshmaelZ said:

    You want to abolish the entire DFE?
    Best to think of that as a kind of care (or rather, don't care) in the community.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    Somewhat impolitic, but I had to LOL.

    South Korea's President didn’t meet Nancy Pelosi because he didn't want to interrupt his vacation, his office says
    https://twitter.com/business/status/1555129418753916929
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,195
    ydoethur said:

    What about demented middle-aged people?
    Don't forget the reptilian elite who live on for centuries in all of this. How much do they cost the NHS. I bet THEY WILL NOT TELL US THAT!!!!!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    Nigelb said:

    Somewhat impolitic, but I had to LOL.

    South Korea's President didn’t meet Nancy Pelosi because he didn't want to interrupt his vacation, his office says
    https://twitter.com/business/status/1555129418753916929

    Since when did Dominic Raab become President of South Korea?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838
    Sean_F said:

    Jenkins is the kind of man who is quite happy to "cement evil", as Joachim Gauke put it.
    Jenkins is very much in the realpolitik isolationist school, leave Russia and China to it, Ukraine and Taiwan are far away and of no direct interest to us. Give some token aid to Ukraine and
    that is it. To be fair he also was no enthusiast for the conflicts in Iraq or Afghanistan either
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304

    Since when did Dominic Raab become President of South Korea?
    Since he had a religious experience and discovered his Seoul.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    We also need to start believing in god and heaven again. Everyone is terrified of dying because they are like Phil Larkin in aubade. They think death is an eternity of nullity. Forever not existing. Get a grip you atheist wankers
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    We also need to get real about demented old people. Someone with severe Alzheimer's in their 80s and 90s should be given a huge whack of numbing morphine to imbibe, or not, and at that point the state has paid its debt, and now they have to take their chances

    Instead, at vast expense to everyone - emotionally as well as financially - we keep them alive for years. Which is lovely and humane and kind, but is it? Is it even humane - to them? Or do we do it to make ourselves feel better for no good reason?

    I would come at this from a different pov; I think it should be acceptable for people who wish to take the dignitas option, as long as they make that decision without pressure and it is about their autonomy over their quality of life. If you have a power of attorney who has a document outlining a position written before a stroke or steep decline that says "if I ever get to x state, let me go in peace" I have no issue with that.

    Your position, again, is just a hair away from saying all useless eaters should be terminated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    HYUFD said:

    Jenkins is very much in the realpolitik isolationist school, leave Russia and China to it, Ukraine and Taiwan are far away and of no direct interest to us. Give some token aid to Ukraine and
    that is it. To be fair he also was no enthusiast for the conflicts in Iraq or Afghanistan either
    I think he’s more a nervous old journalist, in need to a controversial opinion, so he can keep his job
  • kjh said:

    Get well soon Big G. Just realised my post sounded a bit callous, which wasn't intentional.
    Thanks and it was not callous at all
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    Leon said:

    We also need to start believing in god and heaven again. Everyone is terrified of dying because they are like Phil Larkin in aubade. They think death is an eternity of nullity. Forever not existing. Get a grip you atheist wankers

    Agnostic w@nkers! We had this discussion last evening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838
    Taz said:

    We've "regained control", what are your Party doing about it aside from talking tough and using Rwanda while allowing hundreds of thousands into the country.

    Personally I have no problem with inward migration. I think we need to concentrate on the infrastructure and homes to meet the demands of our new citizens.
    It ended free movement from the EU and replaced it with the same points system that applies to the rest of the world.

    We are one of the most densely populated nations on earth, England certainly. There are limits to how many new homes and how much infrastructure and public services we can afford and provide
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    Alistair said:

    Is that a total return comparison (i.e. Dividends reinvested) or just share price?
    yep not sure - he just showed me the chart; I didn't ask on what basis it was. I'll ask him.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,655
    glw said:

    It won't be a bad peace, it will merely be a pause until Putin goes for the rest of Ukraine, or the territory of some other country. Putin must be defeated.
    This is a mantra rather than an argument. And the same things will be being said by the other side - 'we must win this war against the West, if they win Ukraine what next, this is an existential fight for Russia'. Yet we expect or hope for Putin to act rationally in the face of military losses and economic damage, and withdraw. Someone needs to start acting like the grown up in the room.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Sean_F said:

    Once Kherson goes, I suspect we'll see the Russian position collapse like a pack of cards.
    Kherson does give every impression of being the cork in the bottle. Keep the HIMARS coming!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,838
    Leon said:

    We also need to start believing in god and heaven again. Everyone is terrified of dying because they are like Phil Larkin in aubade. They think death is an eternity of nullity. Forever not existing. Get a grip you atheist wankers

    Indeed, if you truly believe in God you have no great fear of death but hope for eternal life (albeit there is the downside of hell too if you were really bad until you truly repent)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434

    Since when did Dominic Raab become President of South Korea?
    The new (conservative) administration had taken quite a strong pro-US line, but they seem to have got cold feet following China's tetchy response to the Taiwan visit.

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2022/08/120_333926.html
    A huge question has arisen in Korea as U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Seoul as part of her high-profile Asia trip: did the Yoon administration handle the reception of the high-ranking U.S. official appropriately?

    Pelosi arrived in Seoul on Wednesday night from Taiwan for a two-day visit, during which she met her counterpart, National Assembly Speaker Kim Jin-pyo, and visited the Panmunjom Joint Security Area standing between the two Koreas.

    Her visit to Korea became the subject of heated debate here, just as her previous stop in Taiwan did ― though for slightly different reasons ― due to the possible impact on Seoul's relations with Beijing of her bold efforts to show her support of democracy in Taiwan and stand up against China's autocracy.

    The South Korean government was cautious of Pelosi's visit. President Yoon Suk-yeol has already showed a hard tilt toward Washington in the face of the intensifying U.S.-China rivalry several times, triggering temperamental responses from Beijing.

    Neither the Ministry of Foreign Affairs nor the National Assembly sent a South Korean delegation to welcome Speaker Pelosi when she arrived at Osan Air Base in Pyeongtaek. Broadcaster TV Chosun and other media reported that Pelosi was "very displeased" that no one from the Korean side was there to greet her, citing an unnamed official at the U.S. embassy here. ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661

    Be careful - part of that is tech weighting.

    I suspect I could cut the data in a defensible way that looks much better for the FTSE
    Yep I'm sure - I would be quite interested to see it. As I said he just showed me the chart and that was it - I didn't ask how it had been compiled or weighted or whether it was total return or what CCY treatment...

    In fact I'm going to ask him to send it to me now!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,548
    edited August 2022

    Agnostic w@nkers! We had this discussion last evening.
    Everyone should calm down about this whole “death” thing

    I SPOKE TO GOD JUST LAST DECEMBER. When I did ayahuasca in Menorca

    God is a bit of a c*nt but basically it’s all fine. When you die your soul is reabsorbed into the mighty river of consciousness which turns the turbines of reality which constantly powers the universe. So chill out
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,971
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed, if you truly believe in God you have no great fear of death but hope for eternal life (albeit there is the downside of hell too if you were really bad until you truly repent)
    Sitting on a cloud strumming a harp with a load of bible punchers for ever? No thanks. I think I'll take my chances with an eternity of nullity.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,750
    Leon said:

    We also need to start believing in god and heaven again. Everyone is terrified of dying because they are like Phil Larkin in aubade. They think death is an eternity of nullity. Forever not existing. Get a grip you atheist wankers

    We don’t think it’s an “eternity” of anything. We think we cease to exist. Everything about us is gone in an instant. But we did exist, and viewed from a certain perspective, still do as an event which happened.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed, if you truly believe in God you have no great fear of death but hope for eternal life (albeit there is the downside of hell too if you were really bad until you truly repent)
    Where do you think you're heading?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    I think believing in god because you want to live forever in heaven is a bit like 100% of people who get married thinking they won't get divorced when the current divorce rate is 33%.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    148grss said:

    I would come at this from a different pov; I think it should be acceptable for people who wish to take the dignitas option, as long as they make that decision without pressure and it is about their autonomy over their quality of life. If you have a power of attorney who has a document outlining a position written before a stroke or steep decline that says "if I ever get to x state, let me go in peace" I have no issue with that.

    Your position, again, is just a hair away from saying all useless eaters should be terminated.
    Soylent Green !
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434
    TOPPING said:

    Where do you think you're heading?
    HYUFD is clearly one of the elect.
This discussion has been closed.