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Yet again the Oxford stranglehold on No.10 continues – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,624
edited July 2022 in General
imageYet again the Oxford stranglehold on No.10 continues – politicalbetting.com

So now we know that the next Conservative leader and Prime Minister will be either Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak. They became the names that will be put to the party membership in a postal ballot the result of which we should get in early September.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    Need to shut the dump down....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited July 2022
    JosiasJessop said:

    An interesting little anecdote about diversity. Who do you side with? The interviewee or interviewer?

    https://twitter.com/PosenIzzy/status/1549736122682580992

    (My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)

    "they might not know about the holocaust".....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,537
    edited July 2022
    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62205517

    Penny's wilderness years side hustle.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    Mrs Sandpit: “I miss Boris” 🇺🇦

    Let’s hope the new PM, no matter who, continues our wholehearted support for the Ukrainians.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    Apple has agreed to pay $50m (£41.6m) to settle a legal action by claimants in the US, over its MacBook keyboards.

    Customers in seven states claimed the technology giant had sold the "butterfly" keyboards, on MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro laptops, from 2015 to 2019, knowing they had unresponsive and sticky keys that could be damaged by dust or debris.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62236778
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Apple has agreed to pay $50m (£41.6m) to settle a legal action by claimants in the US, over its MacBook keyboards.

    Customers in seven states claimed the technology giant had sold the "butterfly" keyboards, on MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro laptops, from 2015 to 2019, knowing they had unresponsive and sticky keys that could be damaged by dust or debris.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62236778

    Those keyboards were rubbish! First iteration of what’s good now, but should have spent another year in QA first.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    At least they didn't go to Eton.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,249
    Third rate dump.

    Proper universities focus on winning Nobel prizes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,506
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    This sounds like a recipe for confusion and chaos.

    They should have just stuck to a paper postal ballot IMO.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    A necessary protection when you are dealing with weird candidates that do weird things.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    FPT
    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,485
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    Interesting. Do you think GCHQ keep an eye on party websites?

    I hope so - this is the next Prime Minister.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That’s weird.

    Last time out, 80% of ballots were back at CCHQ within a week, most members not waiting for the public hustings.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dominic Cummings
    @Dominic2306

    Totally on-brand for ERG to back a truly useless Remainer who did nothing in govt except gabble with hacks cos she’s reassuringly mad behind the eyes.

    🤡
    🤡
    🤡🤡🤡
    4:07 PM · Jul 20, 2022·TweetDeck"

    How do you think the clown faces make him look? He's an arse.
    He seems to be one of those types who say they don't care what anyone else thinks, so long as they are right, without realising that aggravating everyone so they never listen to you helps no one, including you.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,485
    Best outcome here is a completely delusional Truss gets in and calls an election. Starmer by Christmas.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    An interesting little anecdote about diversity. Who do you side with? The interviewee or interviewer?

    https://twitter.com/PosenIzzy/status/1549736122682580992

    (My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)

    "they might not know about the holocaust".....
    That response in itself reveals a very patronising attitude. She's basically saying that you can't expect them to have any basic historical knowledge or empathy with people who don't look like them.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    edited July 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    An interesting little anecdote about diversity. Who do you side with? The interviewee or interviewer?

    https://twitter.com/PosenIzzy/status/1549736122682580992

    (My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)

    "they might not know about the holocaust".....
    Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,537
    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Apologies, Addington not Addison
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,086
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That's asking for trouble!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,147
    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Merton however is very quietly the most consistently academic in recent times.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    williamglenn said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    An interesting little anecdote about diversity. Who do you side with? The interviewee or interviewer?

    https://twitter.com/PosenIzzy/status/1549736122682580992

    (My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)

    "they might not know about the holocaust".....
    That response in itself reveals a very patronising attitude. She's basically saying that you can't expect them to have any basic historical knowledge or empathy with people who don't look like them.
    “Don’t mention the war!”
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    And where the fuck is the UK farmer meant to get the capital?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,789
    Sandpit said:

    Mrs Sandpit: “I miss Boris” 🇺🇦

    Let’s hope the new PM, no matter who, continues our wholehearted support for the Ukrainians.

    Probably. Oxford graduates have a record of standing up to dictators, unlike Cambridge men who spy for them.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,286
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    For that to work, presumably paper ballots will have to be neatly filed by voter (so the returning officer can tell whenever one is superseded). That sounds like a lot of work, and may also be open to corruption.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Bold talk, or worrying sign they could actually act on it?

    Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.

    In an interview with Russian state media, he implied Moscow's strategy had changed after the West supplied Ukraine with longer-range weapons.

    Russia would now have to push Ukrainian forces further from the front line to ensure its own security, he explained.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62231936
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,537
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    At least they didn't go to Eton.

    Sunak went to Winchester though, Truss to a comp. Indeed Truss would be our first PM ever to have a fully comprehensive school secondary education, May went to a private convent school and a grammar school which converted to a comprehensive before she left
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Merton however is very quietly the most consistently academic in recent times.
    Bloody dull, though. Its most interesting alumnus of recent times, including me, is Kris Kristofferson.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That's asking for trouble!
    Seems easy enough, it looks like they'll digitise paper ballots against a unique ID (hopefully hashed to protect the secret ballot) and replace a ballot in the system with a later-submitted one with the same UID.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    An interesting little anecdote about diversity. Who do you side with? The interviewee or interviewer?

    https://twitter.com/PosenIzzy/status/1549736122682580992

    (My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)

    "they might not know about the holocaust".....
    Ah, a graduate of the Whoopi Goldberg school of Holocaust studies.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Apologies, Addington not Addison
    Pitt is to Addington
    As London is to Paddington
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    More evidence of the insane situation in local authority recruitment
    This advert is looking for a planning officer at £48-£58 per hour, 12 month contract (maternity cover).
    This would be outside IR35, so it would yield about £100k company income per year.
    This is in the north west of England, where the wage for a permanent member of staff would be about £25 - £35k per year.

    https://jobs.planningresource.co.uk/job/363424/urgent-outside-ir35-planning-officer-and-senior-planning-officer-/

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That's asking for trouble!
    Especially since it's likely to be pretty close.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,286
    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Whereas Liz would be the seventeenth prime minister from Roundhay Comprehensive School in Leeds.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    kle4 said:

    Bold talk, or worrying sign they could actually act on it?

    Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.

    In an interview with Russian state media, he implied Moscow's strategy had changed after the West supplied Ukraine with longer-range weapons.

    Russia would now have to push Ukrainian forces further from the front line to ensure its own security, he explained.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62231936

    Come on then, chop chop. Let’s see what your ‘pushing Ukranian forces’ looks like, when you’re a little short of ammo right now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Apologies, Addington not Addison
    Pitt is to Addington
    As London is to Paddington
    Quoted in the last issue of the LRB!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Well, I'll be voting Sunak (assuming no massive revelations about his wife's tax affairs), and I confidently expect to the on the losing side. Again.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,708
    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    As we have now left the CAP we have the opportunity to make some fresh decisions. You say that agri hasn't invested - there seems to be an awful lot of big equipment on the farms up here which isn't cheap. But as we know farming can be deeply unprofitable. You can only invest if you either have the cash or can borrow.

    Which brings us back to business plans. The market price of things like a sheep carcass are so low as to make it not worth bothering with. There is no tech investment to make costs significantly lower, so either the sale price rises or there is no business.

    What we need is a UK CAP. The French had the right idea, but implemented it for their own benefit to the detriment of everyone else. The problem for the UK is that we have this government, and their response to the end of EU subsidies is to not replace them with UK subsidies. So a bad position becomes impossible for so many of these producers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    Vote early, vote often.....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Gardenwalker said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Apologies, Addington not Addison
    Pitt is to Addington
    As London is to Paddington
    Quoted in the last issue of the LRB!
    I've known it forever, without having much of a clue who said it or why
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    edited July 2022
    darkage said:

    More evidence of the insane situation in local authority recruitment
    This advert is looking for a planning officer at £48-£58 per hour, 12 month contract (maternity cover).
    This would be outside IR35, so it would yield about £100k company income per year.
    This is in the north west of England, where the wage for a permanent member of staff would be about £25 - £35k per year.

    https://jobs.planningresource.co.uk/job/363424/urgent-outside-ir35-planning-officer-and-senior-planning-officer-/

    Doesn't mention anything about experience either. I feel like a change of career.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 423
    Is the Tory Party membership ready for someone who went to Lincoln.....?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,708
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That’s weird.

    Last time out, 80% of ballots were back at CCHQ within a week, most members not waiting for the public hustings.
    Do have to ask why they need 7 weeks to vote. Even old giffers can vote online. Even my dad, and he thinks little people live inside the telly.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,382
    darkage said:

    More evidence of the insane situation in local authority recruitment
    This advert is looking for a planning officer at £48-£58 per hour, 12 month contract (maternity cover).
    This would be outside IR35, so it would yield about £100k company income per year.
    This is in the north west of England, where the wage for a permanent member of staff would be about £25 - £35k per year.

    https://jobs.planningresource.co.uk/job/363424/urgent-outside-ir35-planning-officer-and-senior-planning-officer-/

    It's a shambles all over the public sector.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    Please tell my extended farming family what technologies they ought to be investing in. Any particular insights into crop varieties? Crop rotations? Are you an advocate of double cropping? How about types of machinery? Do you prefer using GPS systems for combines or are there other systems of automation that you think are even better? Do you think all farms should use an agronomist? What are the best systems for picking root vegetables and also cash crops. Give us your wisdom? Please do.

    While you do that, and anyone who knows anything about the countryside has to desoil themselves, I will see if I can find a tractor driver to give you an opinion on derivatives or some other area of the financial world. After all, the world of finance is full of overpaid mummies' boys who mainly got there because they went to the right school but couldn't get in the right university. Or is that a generalisation would you say?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Disraeli's brothers went to Winchester, but he was thought too frail or clever or stupid or something to do so.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,708
    Gardenwalker said:

    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.

    And if you can buy local food from local producers, do so. The quality is amazing, you directly support local farmers and food businesses and retailers, its a virtuous circle.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,998
    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
    Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.

    I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,076
    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,342
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.

    And if you can buy local food from local producers, do so. The quality is amazing, you directly support local farmers and food businesses and retailers, its a virtuous circle.
    My father and his next-door neighbour just bought a pig from a local farm, and paid a local butcher to cut it up into joints. Cost something like £150, and they both have enough frozen bacon to last until Christmas!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    You know what happened last time...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    It is great to see Labour up for it. The new Tory logo is genius.

    https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1549337977704402954?s=21&t=EsDatPhf6r-X3XY7Y9_yZw
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,598
    Endillion said:

    Well, I'll be voting Sunak (assuming no massive revelations about his wife's tax affairs), and I confidently expect to the on the losing side. Again.

    With the next GE giving you another such opportunity…
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,724
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    At least they didn't go to Eton.

    Sunak went to Winchester though, Truss to a comp. Indeed Truss would be our first PM ever to have a fully comprehensive school secondary education, May went to a private convent school and a grammar school which converted to a comprehensive before she left
    As a former comprehensive school pupil I should be rooting for Truss, but my worry is that nobody would ever trust one of us in a position of power ever again if she became PM.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    He has pulled it out of his arse. He is a Brexit apologist, so he dislikes farmers, because many have complained about being unable to take advantage of eastern european labour that is prepared to do hard work that the snowflake Brits are not prepared to do.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    What’s the point? He’ll just rejoin as somebody else anyway
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited July 2022
    Northern_Al said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
    Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.

    I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
    LOL! I call it as I see it.

    Whilst I have supported Con during the time I've been on PB I've always said I might vote Labour one day (I voted Lab in 97 and Lib in 05)

    Rish is a rational tax dodger. Liz is just mad. Out of the two I'd vote for Rish as he is sane, which is the starting point I suppose (Penny was the candidate I'd have preferred but Dacre and Con MPs got rid of her) but Election 24/25 will probably see me voting Labour whether it's Rish or Liz.

    I'll be very surprised if I vote Con next time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,076
    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    I'm not being rude, just stating a fact. You are remarkably ignorant of Britain, and I am wondering why and positing an answer

    I will not ask you to butt out, as that seems to upset the mods


    "The well drained but often thin soil formed on the chalk and
    limestone plateaux of southern and eastern England and
    the Paris Basin form some of the most extensively exploited
    cereal growing areas of Europe and, until recently, produced
    more grain than Canada"

    https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/projects/Soil_Atlas/Download/20.pdf

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    You know what happened last time...
    Yes, maybe time to just cool it down before it gets even hotter.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That’s weird.

    Last time out, 80% of ballots were back at CCHQ within a week, most members not waiting for the public hustings.
    Do have to ask why they need 7 weeks to vote. Even old giffers can vote online. Even my dad, and he thinks little people live inside the telly.
    They don't need to, but the Commons is in recess after tomorrow and there's not much point declaring the result with the Commons not sitting.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,249
    Applies to my posts on PB.

    The important thing is I've posted enough vaguely worded and often contradictory tweets regarding the Tory leadership election in recent weeks that I'm bound to have at least one that Called It in any situation

    other than Rehman Chishti winning, I confess I never covered for that eventuality

    https://twitter.com/cjayanetti/status/1549791354213089282
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,076
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    You know what happened last time...
    I am refraining from anything nasty. Just making a point

    Don't you live in Devon? The redlands of Devon are famously fertile
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    Jonathan said:

    It is great to see Labour up for it. The new Tory logo is genius.

    https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1549337977704402954?s=21&t=EsDatPhf6r-X3XY7Y9_yZw

    Great, they can criticise the government.

    Why should I vote for them?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    What’s the point? He’ll just rejoin as somebody else anyway
    I’m not sure why he thinks it necessary to deliver personal attacks. He doesn’t try it on with other foreign-living posters, so I have to assume it is because of where I was born.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,994
    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    I'm not being rude, just stating a fact. You are remarkably ignorant of Britain, and I am wondering why and positing an answer

    I will not ask you to butt out, as that seems to upset the mods


    "The well drained but often thin soil formed on the chalk and
    limestone plateaux of southern and eastern England and
    the Paris Basin form some of the most extensively exploited
    cereal growing areas of Europe and, until recently, produced
    more grain than Canada"

    https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/projects/Soil_Atlas/Download/20.pdf

    If you're going to post EU sources as if they're fact, don't expect us to pay any attention to you.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    I'm not being rude, just stating a fact. You are remarkably ignorant of Britain, and I am wondering why and positing an answer

    I will not ask you to butt out, as that seems to upset the mods


    "The well drained but often thin soil formed on the chalk and
    limestone plateaux of southern and eastern England and
    the Paris Basin form some of the most extensively exploited
    cereal growing areas of Europe and, until recently, produced
    more grain than Canada"

    https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/projects/Soil_Atlas/Download/20.pdf

    Sure, but that's the bits the Angles nicked. Cornwall, Wales, N England and much of Scotland are shite.

    With exceptions, like Orkney and the Black Isle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,076
    Gardenwalker said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    What’s the point? He’ll just rejoin as somebody else anyway
    I’m not sure why he thinks it necessary to deliver personal attacks. He doesn’t try it on with other foreign-living posters, so I have to assume it is because of where I was born.
    You what? I like Kiwis. Don't be daft

    And I will respect the will of the mods. If they think you are allowed to comment on Britain despite - to my mind - showing remarkable, insufferable ignorance of it - then fair enough. Knock yourself out
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited July 2022
    Unsurprisingly Lady Nugee is all over tea-gate photo....good job there wasn't a flag as well. Strange time to be getting all funny about a photo with an ethnic minority Tory woman, when the same Tory MPs have just put forward an ethnic minority and a woman as the options for next PM.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    You know what happened last time...
    I am refraining from anything nasty. Just making a point

    Don't you live in Devon? The redlands of Devon are famously fertile
    There's a lot of devon. Coaxing wizened potatoes out of the Dartmoor plateau is hard graft.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,998
    GIN1138 said:

    Northern_Al said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
    Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.

    I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
    LOL! I call it as I see it.

    Whilst I have supported Con during the time I've been on PB I've always said I might vote Labour one day (I voted Lab in 97 and Lib in 05)

    Rish is a rational tax dodger. Liz is just mad. Out of the two I'd vote for Rish as he is sane, which is the starting point I suppose (Penny was the candidate I'd have preferred but Dacre and Con MPs got rid of her) but Election 24/25 will probably see me voting Labour whether it Rish or Liz. I'll be very surprised if I vote Con next time.
    Good news, and welcome to the light side. Just a few more million needed now.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,281
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    My goodness, an OGH Oxford PMs thread, what a rarity! Seriously though the most pleased tonight will probably be Sir Keir, especially if Truss wins the membership vote.

    If Starmer wins the next general election Leeds University gets its first ever graduate as PM (albeit with Sir Keir also doing postgraduate at Oxford so Oxford still will share 50% of the glory).

    After Mordaunt's elimination Reading missed its first ever chance to get a PM.

    In terms of colleges, although both Oxford, Truss will be the first ever PM from Merton College and Sunak the first PM from Lincoln College. Balliol and Christ Church Oxford and Trinity Cambridge typically the grandest colleges providing the most PMs.

    Rishi would also be the first Wykehamist PM since Addison in the early 19th century

    Merton however is very quietly the most consistently academic in recent times.

    That’s why he usually beats Hislop on HIGNFY.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,767
    So the next debate is on Monday? Smarmy vs Barmy, I wonder how many will bother tuning in!
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    Northern_Al said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
    Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.

    I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
    Rishi earned his wealth and protected what he earned as best he could given the various tax rules in the countries where he worked. That makes him wise and prudent which is what we want in a Chancellor and a Prime Minister.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,249
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Unsurprisingly Lady Nugee is all over tea-gate photo....good job there wasn't a flag as well.

    What is tea gate photo?

    I've been busy today so only been online since 3.55pm.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    I'm not being rude, just stating a fact. You are remarkably ignorant of Britain, and I am wondering why and positing an answer

    I will not ask you to butt out, as that seems to upset the mods


    "The well drained but often thin soil formed on the chalk and
    limestone plateaux of southern and eastern England and
    the Paris Basin form some of the most extensively exploited
    cereal growing areas of Europe and, until recently, produced
    more grain than Canada"

    https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/projects/Soil_Atlas/Download/20.pdf

    You are selectively quoting what he said, old chap. He was responding to @MaxPB who was talking out of his arse about British farming, and suggesting that it was out of date and that British farmers are lazy. Both of which is total bollox. The main areas of cereal farming in UK are very fertile, but they still have disadvantages in terms of field size compared to, say, the US prairies and the Ukraine. It is very difficult for UK farmers to produce grain at the same cost as those areas due to input costs and disproportionate government subsidy in the US. UK farming is amongst the most technologically advanced in terms of production, crop breading and mechanisation.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    numbertwelve said:

    So the next debate is on Monday? Smarmy vs Barmy, I wonder how many will bother tuning in!

    Is Smarmy versus Barmy based on looks?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Der Spiegel says that Johnson will have further career success and his memoirs will be spectacular.

    image

    https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/tory-experte-tim-bale-ueber-boris-johnson-seine-memoiren-duerften-spektakulaer-werden-a-95af4e7d-194c-4182-9856-b9b2b68c61bf
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited July 2022
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Unsurprisingly Lady Nugee is all over tea-gate photo....good job there wasn't a flag as well.

    What is tea gate photo?

    I've been busy today so only been online since 3.55pm.
    1922 committee put out a photo of them having tea and Nus Ghani was the one pouring it. And of course certain parts of lefty twitter have got all funny about it the fact an ethnic minority woman was the one doing it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,118
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    More evidence of the insane situation in local authority recruitment
    This advert is looking for a planning officer at £48-£58 per hour, 12 month contract (maternity cover).
    This would be outside IR35, so it would yield about £100k company income per year.
    This is in the north west of England, where the wage for a permanent member of staff would be about £25 - £35k per year.

    https://jobs.planningresource.co.uk/job/363424/urgent-outside-ir35-planning-officer-and-senior-planning-officer-/

    It's a shambles all over the public sector.
    Several questions.

    What would the overheads be on the permanent member of staff?
    Why is this outside IR35? It looks like a single customer who controls the person as an employee - tax avoidance by the client? Or has it changed?

    Interesting that they think a normal planning officer is able to do TPOs.

    Disclosure - I got out of contracting soon after the original IR35 f*ckup.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Driver said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is great to see Labour up for it. The new Tory logo is genius.

    https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1549337977704402954?s=21&t=EsDatPhf6r-X3XY7Y9_yZw

    Great, they can criticise the government.

    Why should I vote for them?
    It’s delightful that Labour are getting their act together. Not before time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,076
    williamglenn said:

    Der Spiegel says that Johnson will have further career success and his memoirs will be spectacular.

    image

    https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/tory-experte-tim-bale-ueber-boris-johnson-seine-memoiren-duerften-spektakulaer-werden-a-95af4e7d-194c-4182-9856-b9b2b68c61bf

    If Boris is canny (he can be) he will do two volumes

    1. The political story

    2. The emotional stuff (later)

    Then a condensed version combining both. I can see him making £5-10m from these books alone, worldwide
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,118
    What are the chances of Truss enacting economic policies that actually make the situation worse re. Inflation?

    Pretty likely if she goes in head first on tax cuts, no?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,118
    Gardenwalker said:

    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.

    Yes, but isn't about using the food industry as mud to sling in politics - so perhaps the debate is best ignored :wink: ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    Leon said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    MaxPB said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    My read on the Aus/NZ trade deals is less that Liz “rolled over” to get a deal, but rather that she actually believes that cheaper meat for consumers is worth damaging UK agricultural interests.

    I don’t agree, but see MaxPB and surely BartyBobbins for details.

    Certain UK agricultural interests, beef and lamb mostly. NZ lamb is incredible, happy to have it replace Welsh lamb if they can't keep up in price and quality, same for Aussie beef. In both cases the product is better and potentially cheaper. It's a wake up call to our agribusinesses to begin a big round of consolidation to scale up and to start investing in better technology to cut costs rather than just throw a bunch of Bulgarian labourers at it.
    The Ukraine war ought to be a wake up call to those who think we should import even more of our foodstuff from overseas. We should be looking at how to increase food security, not reduce it. UK agriculture has been heavily investing in technology for many years. You wouldn't know this because you prefer to talk out of your arse on a subject that you have no knowledge of. You are @BartholomewRoberts and I claim my £5
    Food security means increasing volumes of grain, dairy and sunflower/rapeseed output - in a very basic sense.

    It also means subsidies for the above three areas because, once again, UK agribusinesses have been very, very lazy for the last 20 years and not invested properly to keep up with other countries.
    You need to show evidence for this complaint about UK agribusiness.
    There’s a general whiff that you are pulling it out of your arse.

    Note too that UK farmers have much less propitious soil than most European farmers and also can’t get the scale attained by US and American competitors.

    I honestly don’t know how efficient UK farmers again, but I tell you that US supermarkets are a negative revelation.
    UK produce is high quality in my opinion.
    Not at all sure about "British soil" being worse than most in Europe

    Parts of the UK are amongst the most fertile anywhere, there's just a limited amount of it


    “With over 2,500 soil tests now performed by Yara, when you compare UK averages with the rest of the world, the UK does have very fertile soils – a result of good climate and good farming practice.”

    https://www.anglianwater.co.uk/news/anglian-water-tests-reveal-uk-has-very-fertile-soil/

    It's one of the reasons England was much coveted by invaders, despite the hassles of it being an island

    Yet again you reveal your lack of knowledge of Britain, but that's perhaps unsurprising in someone not born in Britain, who doesn't live in Britain, who despises Britain, and who has no intention of returning to Britain
    Leon you were banned the other day for continuing your xenophobic nonsense.

    Don’t be a bigot.
    And really, seek help. You are clearly grieving something.
    I'm not being rude, just stating a fact. You are remarkably ignorant of Britain, and I am wondering why and positing an answer

    I will not ask you to butt out, as that seems to upset the mods


    "The well drained but often thin soil formed on the chalk and
    limestone plateaux of southern and eastern England and
    the Paris Basin form some of the most extensively exploited
    cereal growing areas of Europe and, until recently, produced
    more grain than Canada"

    https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/projects/Soil_Atlas/Download/20.pdf

    You are selectively quoting what he said, old chap. He was responding to @MaxPB who was talking out of his arse about British farming, and suggesting that it was out of date and that British farmers are lazy. Both of which is total bollox. The main areas of cereal farming in UK are very fertile, but they still have disadvantages in terms of field size compared to, say, the US prairies and the Ukraine. It is very difficult for UK farmers to produce grain at the same cost as those areas due to input costs and disproportionate government subsidy in the US. UK farming is amongst the most technologically advanced in terms of production, crop breading and mechanisation.
    Yes, thank-you.

    Leon will perhaps now pull-out the bit where I said that British soil was less propitious than European competitors, but more basically I just mean that they can grow quite a lot of produce in Europe that the UK cannot.

    And when I say UK, I mean the whole country not just the Thames Valley, Kent and East Anglia.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,891
    Driver said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    What a curious rule to include.

    While ballots will be sent out immediately, members will be able to vote both online or by post. Crucially, only the last ballot received by CCHQ will count...This means any member who votes early and then experiences buyer’s remorse will have the option to override it. This is no doubt a positive revelation for Sunak’s team. Every little helps…

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/20/cchq-members-with-buyers-remorse-can-change-their-minds/

    That’s weird.

    Last time out, 80% of ballots were back at CCHQ within a week, most members not waiting for the public hustings.
    Do have to ask why they need 7 weeks to vote. Even old giffers can vote online. Even my dad, and he thinks little people live inside the telly.
    They don't need to, but the Commons is in recess after tomorrow and there's not much point declaring the result with the Commons not sitting.
    Boris wants to be there as long as possible. Now he can spend 7 weeks in Chequers while ensuring he puts a suitable distance between himself and Teresa May in terms of tenure at No 10.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    edited July 2022
    Gardenwalker said:

    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.

    It's a shock to visit American supermarkets and see how expensive and difficult it is to get what would count as standard food in the UK.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,998
    Pensfold said:

    Northern_Al said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Cyclefree said:

    Is it too soon to say "I told you so"?

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/20/one-current-leader-and-one-future-one/

    Probably. But never mind.

    I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.

    One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.

    Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.

    Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!

    Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
    Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.

    I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
    Rishi earned his wealth and protected what he earned as best he could given the various tax rules in the countries where he worked. That makes him wise and prudent which is what we want in a Chancellor and a Prime Minister.
    It wasn't me who made the original comment. However, I'd respond by suggesting that Rishi's prudence hasn't thus far extended to the nation's finances, as he turned a blind eye to the billions of pounds of fraud on Covid loans. As pointed out by Lord Agnew in his ministerial resignation speech.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,089
    AugustusCarp2 said:

    Is the Tory Party membership ready for someone who went to Lincoln.....?

    Only if they went to St Mark's. Student's who lived at Gateway made the wrong choice when they were 18.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    Der Spiegel says that Johnson will have further career success and his memoirs will be spectacular.

    image

    https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/tory-experte-tim-bale-ueber-boris-johnson-seine-memoiren-duerften-spektakulaer-werden-a-95af4e7d-194c-4182-9856-b9b2b68c61bf

    If Boris is canny (he can be) he will do two volumes

    1. The political story

    2. The emotional stuff (later)

    Then a condensed version combining both. I can see him making £5-10m from these books alone, worldwide
    How long before he blows through that money I wonder?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    Der Spiegel says that Johnson will have further career success and his memoirs will be spectacular.

    image

    https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/tory-experte-tim-bale-ueber-boris-johnson-seine-memoiren-duerften-spektakulaer-werden-a-95af4e7d-194c-4182-9856-b9b2b68c61bf

    If Boris is canny (he can be) he will do two volumes

    1. The political story

    2. The emotional stuff (later)

    Then a condensed version combining both. I can see him making £5-10m from these books alone, worldwide
    How long before he blows through that money I wonder?
    Quite. He has a new place to wallpaper. He’ll be broke by Christmas.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,891
    Razedabode said:

    What are the chances of Truss enacting economic policies that actually make the situation worse re. Inflation?

    Pretty likely if she goes in head first on tax cuts, no?

    Given the tax cut she is planning to make the impact will be on corporate investment which will be binned by companies in a desire to maximise short term profits.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Andy_JS said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    UK food is extraordinarily good quality and sold very competitively.

    Not many people seem to know this.

    Anyone who wants to muddle with it for ideological reasons needs to show their working.

    It's a shock to visit American supermarkets and see how expensive and difficult it is to get what would count as standard food in the UK.
    Yep.

    And even NZ is quite crap. Small market, and the supermarket industry is a duopoly.

    Great climate for growing, veges are good, but trying to find really good quality meat is actually quite hard. Even finding good wine is hard.
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