Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
An important consideration: is Rishi taller than Liz?
Per Google, Sunak 5'6"; Truss 5'3".
Perhaps JackW remembers the Lincoln-Douglas debates in 1858 during their campaign for US Senate
Abraham Lincoln 6'4" Stephen Douglas 5'4"
Douglas was re-elected. By Illinois legislature; although more votes were cast statewide for Republican state reps & senators than Democrats, more of the latter were elected than the former.
Of course history has judged Honest Abe to have actually won these debates, and they certainly helped propel him into the Republican nomination for President in 1860, the year he defeated (Northern) Demcrat Douglas, the Little Giant.
BUT it was the immediate aftermath of the Lincoln-Douglas debates that gave SD a 2nd moniker: "Giant Killer".
So the question arises - are Oxford simply better at producing successful politicians than other universities or are they responsible for letting us down?
The person who suggested that the race was between Smarmy vs Barmy had it right.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
It nearly incited a riot at work.
I bet they also put pineapple on their pizza.....
That's how my staff put it to me, putting milk in first is like putting pineapple on pizza.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I spent two weeks guiding schoolchildren around a touring Ann Frank exhibition - was more concerned by the lack of knowledge and bollocks coming from their teachers.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Is the tea lady also the junior member of the 1822 (sic) Committee, in terms of seniority?
In that case, perhaps it's a traditional part of that role, believe that Tory Whips have (or had) similar tradition(s).
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
Actually I think this is a good example of where this push for more "diverse" non-white Euro focused teaching could come into...rather than trying to crowbar in some example just because it isn't white european, here you learn about the holocaust and then you can certainly then introduce children to the fact that in other parts of the world similar genocides have occurred targeted at wiping out an ethnic group.
It is a funny situation. I mean, I know people overinterpret things, but did not one of them think even for a second how it might look to an unkind eye?
Sometimes these situations happen when nobody has a bigoted bone in their body.
I remember a few years ago I drove 4 white friends to a football match when the other four suggested it, I joked and said
'Alright, just because I'm a Paki doesn't mean I have to be a taxi driver'
They felt so bad, the reality was I don't drink, and they did, and I have a larger vehicle, so it was obvious I would be driving us to the match, I felt grateful as I had got an unused ticket from one of the guy's brother who wasn't going.
The fact the MPs then went and voted an ethnic minority and a woman as choice to be the next PM.....as well as the overall candidates were extremely diverse...if that is what matters to people.
I doesn't matter to me, but it seems to have gone rather unremarked that we could have our first ethnic minority PM or third woman to do the job...when Obama was in the running for POTUS that is all anybody talked about.
It's had a bit of focus among commentators, since it is notable, but as you say it has really not seemed to feature much among general discussion.
I'm sure it would get a lot of coverage if Sunak wins, as a significant moment, but it doesn't feel like it will feature as a selling point or a negative point.
Which is quite encouraging.
It's not as if it is very exciting, is it? We are all quite used to ethnic minorities nowadays - they get everywhere, even into the royal family, though in that case they flounce out again.
I think it is far more significant that one of the candidates to become leader of the Conservative Party is an excessively wealthy posh boy, who is known for going in for tax dodging.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Is the tea lady also the junior member of the 1822 (sic) Committee, in terms of seniority?
In that case, perhaps it's a traditional part of that role, believe that Tory Whips have (or had) similar tradition(s).
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
Wrong type of diversity obvs. There was a huge deal made of it when Khan became London Mayor.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Oi! Some of us make brilliant tea.
Admittedly my grandmother was from China. I don't know if that makes a difference.
But even my other grandmother always let me pour the tea. She wouldn't yield it to anyone else, but she said I was just too good.
I don't drink tea or coffee but before the pandemic I hired a new member of staff who it turned out was a milk in firster.
It nearly incited a riot at work.
Who was the mug?
I move the nomination of YDOETHUR, based on his obvious merit, as PB Punster Laureate.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
So the question arises - are Oxford simply better at producing successful politicians than other universities or are they responsible for letting us down?
The person who suggested that the race was between Smarmy vs Barmy had it right.
Up there with David Frost on the 1964 General Election:
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
If it were me I'd have decoded it and given the right answer, if I wanted the job
it's not straightforward. Her dad was a maths professor, at a time when one third if all German maths professors were jewish. so she was in a hugely privileged, not disadvantaged, position as a schoolchild (the post being applied for, is teacher training) so not that relevant to children who are disadvantaged by being diverse, at that age.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
I've been told on a few occasions that I'm not an ethnic minority because of my middle class upbringing/schooling means I've never experienced racism or bigotry.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
I've shared that with my mother and she's call you a 'Khoti rhan' which translates as stupid wife.
I rather fancy that if the EU had negotiated exactly the same deals with Australia and New Zealand that the same posters on here sledging them would now be applauding them for their far-sightedness.
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Brady wouldn't do it unless he gets 54 requests in writing.
I really don't get why Truss is so hated. Nor why Sunak is.
One is slick and thinks more of himself than is justified. The other is weird but canny. Are they notably worse than other party leaders? Why the hatred? Strong disagreement with policies I understand. But to listen to some it's as if we were facing a choice between Mussolini and Franco.
Rish is a multi-millionaire tax dodger. Liz is a woman that think's dressing up like Margaret Thatcher in 1980 is a good idea.
Not Musolini and Franco... but not great!
Out of the two I would vote for Rishi if I had a vote because at least he's rational which is always a good starting point.
Excellent. So Rishi is a rational multi-millionaire tax dodger.
I'm enjoying those not normally sympathetic to Labour feeding us ideas for lines to take.
Rishi earned his wealth and protected what he earned as best he could given the various tax rules in the countries where he worked. That makes him wise and prudent which is what we want in a Chancellor and a Prime Minister.
I'd want a Chancellor who could convince his wife to pay tax personally.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
Actually I think this is a good example of where this push for more "diverse" non-white Euro focused teaching could come into...rather than trying to crowbar in some example just because it isn't white european, here you learn about the holocaust and then you can certainly then introduce children to the fact that in other parts of the world similar genocides have occurred targeted at wiping out an ethnic group.
Good point.
The Holocaust was just one example where a people were targeted for extermination (made more complex by the fact the Nazis also went after the disabled, Romanies, Communists and anyone who looked at the in a funny way). But if you learn about one, it is easy to expand your thinking to other examples. And the Holocaust is very easy to relate to, thanks to the reams of documentary evidence, pictures and films we have of the event and the people who died.
Compare to, say, the Armenian Genocide, just three decades earlier, which is sadly much more nebulous.
The phrase "warning from history" is very apt. We could easily see it again; and perhaps did in parts of the ex-Yugoslavia in the 1990s, or Ukraine today.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
I've been told on a few occasions that I'm not an ethnic minority because of my middle class upbringing/schooling means I've never experienced racism or bigotry.
I rather fancy that if the EU had negotiated exactly the same deals with Australia and New Zealand that the same posters on here sledging them would now be applauding them for their far-sightedness.
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
British farming did fine.
I don’t think it did, actually. But others, perhaps @Nigel_Foremain will have more detail.
Edit: as to your substantive point, you don’t seem to have read the comments.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
What? That can't possibly work. You'd cool the water down and it wouldn't brew the tea properly. Some people don't even have milk with their tea. My Irish in-laws add a lot of milk to their tea. A lot. But that wouldn't make any sense to them at all.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
If it were me I'd have decoded it and given the right answer, if I wanted the job
it's not straightforward. Her dad was a maths professor, at a time when one third if all German maths professors were jewish. so she was in a hugely privileged, not disadvantaged, position as a schoolchild (the post being applied for, is teacher training) so not that relevant to children who are disadvantaged by being diverse, at that age.
Point remains if you want it to be about somewhat disadvantaged by being diverse, ask that. You shouldn't have to guess what they mean, since some employers really will not want you answering what you think the question is rather than what it actually is.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
I was my son's age in 1981, and I had no idea. And that school was fairly multicultural for the time. If it has changed, then all the better.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
Actually I think this is a good example of where this push for more "diverse" non-white Euro focused teaching could come into...rather than trying to crowbar in some example just because it isn't white european, here you learn about the holocaust and then you can certainly then introduce children to the fact that in other parts of the world similar genocides have occurred targeted at wiping out an ethnic group.
Good point.
The Holocaust was just one example where a people were targeted for extermination (made more complex by the fact the Nazis also went after the disabled, Romanies, Communists and anyone who looked at the in a funny way). But if you learn about one, it is easy to expand your thinking to other examples. And the Holocaust is very easy to relate to, thanks to the reams of documentary evidence, pictures and films we have of the event and the people who died.
Compare to, say, the Armenian Genocide, just three decades earlier, which is sadly much more nebulous.
The phrase "warning from history" is very apt. We could easily see it again; and perhaps did in parts of the ex-Yugoslavia in the 1990s, or Ukraine today.
Yes, but it is odd that the paradigm, shock horror case has white victims, the closer to home white on black case is glossed over. And it's documented to fuck and there's all sorts of examples of its spoils you can see on a school trip without needing a passport.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
I've shared that with my mother and she's call you a 'Khoti rhan' which translates as stupid wife.
Oh. Can't see any way that would be a compliment. I'll have a rethink.
Prediction: both current artists will make megabucks out of Dalles created from thier seedwords, and a new generation of artists will spring into being whose only trick this is.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
I've shared that with my mother and she's call you a 'Khoti rhan' which translates as stupid wife.
Oh. Can't see any way that would be a compliment. I'll have a rethink.
It's not, whenever I do something stupid it is what she calls me.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
Prediction: both current artists will make megabucks out of Dalles created from thier seedwords, and a new generation of artists will spring into being whose only trick this is.
Already happening. There are people who have already built a decent following by using DALLE and other text-to-image generators to create interesting art. Next thing we are already seeing is animated clips where the AI is being prompted to create animated scenes.
There are already "prompt" books for different AIs.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
Is the tea lady also the junior member of the 1822 (sic) Committee, in terms of seniority?
In that case, perhaps it's a traditional part of that role, believe that Tory Whips have (or had) similar tradition(s).
I rather fancy that if the EU had negotiated exactly the same deals with Australia and New Zealand that the same posters on here sledging them would now be applauding them for their far-sightedness.
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
British farming did fine.
I don’t think it did, actually. But others, perhaps @Nigel_Foremain will have more detail.
Edit: as to your substantive point, you don’t seem to have read the comments.
I've read all the comments. I think it's a lot of piss and wind.
People say Australian and New Zealand produce might undercut British produce, but then say it might also be largely frozen and processed and British food is better anyway so buy local.
GVA and GDP will increase with both and British farming will be absolutely fine just as it was when it was exposed to the far larger and more proximate EU market of over 400 million people.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
They were certainly comparable from the perspective of the victims, I am guessing. I don't think there is any determining the relative evil as far as motive is concerned. I am not sure the holocaust was a net cost to germany, taking into account expropriations and slave labour. might have been though.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
You are literally worse than Hitler.
Well at least try it. You might be surprised.
I don't think we want anyone to try and be worse than Hitler.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
They were certainly comparable from the perspective of the victims, I am guessing. I don't think there is any determining the relative evil as far as motive is concerned. I am not sure the holocaust was a net cost to germany, taking into account expropriations and slave labour. might have been though.
You are rather assuming the benefits from the expropriations accrued to Germany and not senior Nazis.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
Actually I think this is a good example of where this push for more "diverse" non-white Euro focused teaching could come into...rather than trying to crowbar in some example just because it isn't white european, here you learn about the holocaust and then you can certainly then introduce children to the fact that in other parts of the world similar genocides have occurred targeted at wiping out an ethnic group.
Good point.
The Holocaust was just one example where a people were targeted for extermination (made more complex by the fact the Nazis also went after the disabled, Romanies, Communists and anyone who looked at the in a funny way). But if you learn about one, it is easy to expand your thinking to other examples. And the Holocaust is very easy to relate to, thanks to the reams of documentary evidence, pictures and films we have of the event and the people who died.
Compare to, say, the Armenian Genocide, just three decades earlier, which is sadly much more nebulous.
The phrase "warning from history" is very apt. We could easily see it again; and perhaps did in parts of the ex-Yugoslavia in the 1990s, or Ukraine today.
Yes, but it is odd that the paradigm, shock horror case has white victims, the closer to home white on black case is glossed over. And it's documented to fuck and there's all sorts of examples of its spoils you can see on a school trip without needing a passport.
John Major -5 Gordon Brown -8 Theresa May -15 Boris Johnson -24 Tony Blair -34 David Cameron -37
Something doesn't appear to be right. And do those who appear most admired for their 'political' skills end up being least well liked?
Poor John Major. He was nowhere near as bad as many that have since followed him but he has very much gone down as a complete dud in the popular imagination. History will be kinder.
I rather fancy that if the EU had negotiated exactly the same deals with Australia and New Zealand that the same posters on here sledging them would now be applauding them for their far-sightedness.
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
British farming did fine.
I don’t think it did, actually. But others, perhaps @Nigel_Foremain will have more detail.
Edit: as to your substantive point, you don’t seem to have read the comments.
I've read all the comments. I think it's a lot of piss and wind.
People say Australian and New Zealand produce might undercut British produce, but then say it might also be largely frozen and processed and British food is better anyway so buy local.
GVA and GDP will increase with both and British farming will be absolutely fine just as it was when it was exposed to the far larger and more proximate EU market of over 400 million people.
I believe the modelling showed a dent to British farming. There was an argument in Cabinet between Truss and others (like Eustice).
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
They were certainly comparable from the perspective of the victims, I am guessing. I don't think there is any determining the relative evil as far as motive is concerned. I am not sure the holocaust was a net cost to germany, taking into account expropriations and slave labour. might have been though.
You are rather assuming the benefits from the expropriations accrued to Germany and not senior Nazis.
The benefits from the slave trade accrued to senior toffs.
I rather fancy that if the EU had negotiated exactly the same deals with Australia and New Zealand that the same posters on here sledging them would now be applauding them for their far-sightedness.
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
British farming did fine.
I don’t think it did, actually. But others, perhaps @Nigel_Foremain will have more detail.
Edit: as to your substantive point, you don’t seem to have read the comments.
Something of a massive red herring if you ask me. Farming and food production and food retailing are a completely different world to the 1960s. The average brexiteer seems to think "fuck farming" in the same way as the fat little liar said "fuck business". The reality is that any business, whether traditional like farming, or high tech like healthcare, does not normally prosper when policy decisions are made for irrational non-business reasons. The "deal" done by Truss et al with Australia seemed to me to be rushed, and more motivated by feel good factors for Brexiteers who still want to believe the fairytales they were told. Farmers will have to adapt and no doubt a lot of fairly marginal farmers will probably go bankrupt, with associated suicides and also degradation of communities and ecosystems that depend on the traditional way of life in some areas.
John Major -5 Gordon Brown -8 Theresa May -15 Boris Johnson -24 Tony Blair -34 David Cameron -37
Something doesn't appear to be right. And do those who appear most admired for their 'political' skills end up being least well liked?
Poor John Major. He was nowhere near as bad as many that have since followed him but he has very much gone down as a complete dud in the popular imagination. History will be kinder.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
I've shared that with my mother and she's call you a 'Khoti rhan' which translates as stupid wife.
Oh. Can't see any way that would be a compliment. I'll have a rethink.
It's not, whenever I do something stupid it is what she calls me.
I can see this Sunak is low energy British Macron: stabbed too late, let himself be defined by others, didn’t directly engage the press enough doesn’t do enough soapbox. If he’d been able to dial it all up a few notches he’d be prime minister.
Just shown that photo to my wife. She said "it must be a spoof". I said "I don't think it is". She exploded. Possibly trivial, but ye gods - five men in suits being poured tea by a diminutive woman doesn't look very modern.
Maybe Nus Ghani is pouring the tea because Nus Ghani wanted to pour the tea.
Yes, I'm sure that's true; I'll bet she volunteered before any of the chaps.
I've shown that picture to my mother her take on it.
White men/people cannot make tea properly, it is inevitable that that the Pakistani heritage person offered to make the tea before anyone else did.
I've never even considered if I could be making my tea differently, so now I have to assume your mother is right
There are people who microwave tea, apparently those people are monsters.
Technique I've just come across which is quite satisfying - put the milk in the actual teapot.
You are literally worse than Hitler.
Well at least try it. You might be surprised.
I will be surprised that, like you, I have become worse than Hitler.
I can see this Sunak is low energy British Macron: stabbed too late, let himself be defined by others, didn’t directly engage the press enough doesn’t do enough soapbox. If he’d been able to dial it all up a few notches he’d be prime minister.
The Minister-President of Saxony says that the "conflict" in Ukraine should be frozen with Germany acting as an intermediary, even if it would be "bitter for Ukraine".
This looks to be an impressive government response to counter abuse of the UK legal system by the super-rich: The reforms will introduce "a new statutory early dismissal process to stop these [SLAPP]cases – allowing judges to throw out claims that lack merit."
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
They were certainly comparable from the perspective of the victims, I am guessing. I don't think there is any determining the relative evil as far as motive is concerned. I am not sure the holocaust was a net cost to germany, taking into account expropriations and slave labour. might have been though.
I considered slave labour and expropriations when I made my comment. But look at the Jewish talent that left Germany before the war, from Einstein to Perls. Or the fact that many of the Jews who ended up in the camps could have been working, or fighting, for the Reich in much more productive ways. Expropriations in particular are a one-time thing.
Would Germany have won the war if Hitler had not made Jews the enemy (*)? Probably not. But their talent and manpower would have been a great help to them. But he needed a minority to make the enemy, and Jews have sadly always been a good target for that.
(*) Leaving aside the blacks, the disabled, communists, and people who looked at him in a funny way.
The Minister-President of Saxony says that the "conflict" in Ukraine should be frozen with Germany acting as an intermediary, even if it would be "bitter for Ukraine".
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
I've been told on a few occasions that I'm not an ethnic minority because of my middle class upbringing/schooling means I've never experienced racism or bigotry.
Some of the responses from lefty Twitter in the last couple of weeks, to the diversity of the Tory leadership candidates, have been utterly horrific.
They go on all day about racism and sexism, yet appear to have a massive blind spot to the racism and sexism emanating from their own tribe.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
I've been told on a few occasions that I'm not an ethnic minority because of my middle class upbringing/schooling means I've never experienced racism or bigotry.
Some of the responses from lefty Twitter in the last couple of weeks, to the diversity of the Tory leadership candidates, have been utterly horrific.
They go on all day about racism and sexism, yet appear to have a massive blind spot to the racism and sexism emanating from their own tribe.
Too many Tweets, might make a tw@
Kemi Badenoch is apparently the face of white supremacy.
The Minister-President of Saxony says that the "conflict" in Ukraine should be frozen with Germany acting as an intermediary, even if it would be "bitter for Ukraine".
John Major -5 Gordon Brown -8 Theresa May -15 Boris Johnson -24 Tony Blair -34 David Cameron -37
Something doesn't appear to be right. And do those who appear most admired for their 'political' skills end up being least well liked?
So non Oxford John Major the greatest living PM alive, rather a reversal from 1997
I think Major's biggest problem in 1997 was that he seemed like a victim of his backbenchers and unable to maintain discipline among his ministers, more than that people were sick of him personally.
Tony Blair always seemed to have more control of his backbenches, but then it was an issue of what he chose to do with that power.
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
Not straightforward. Consensus view seems to be: holocaust worst thing any group of people has ever done to another ever, no exceptions; triangular trade a minor blemish (if even that, judged by the standards of its time) on the record of the Greatest Force For Good And Civilization In All Of History, Do You Hear Me? If I were black I think I'd be noticing that one crime was white on white, and one not.
Then the question should have been: "Can you think of a black mathematician?"
If that is what they wanted, then the question was ill-formed, as a pre-war Jewish woman in Germany who contributed theorems to maths (*) *is* diverse, as in she was unusual from the norm.
(*) Ones even I have heard of, even if I couldn't explain them...
Seems pretty obviously a case of the question being coded, and they got stuck when someone answered it as it was framed.
I was on a diversity course once where I was told that having Jewish heritage didn't count. There's definitely a bit of an issue with some people who have a non-diverse view of what diversity is.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
I've been told on a few occasions that I'm not an ethnic minority because of my middle class upbringing/schooling means I've never experienced racism or bigotry.
Some of the responses from lefty Twitter in the last couple of weeks, to the diversity of the Tory leadership candidates, have been utterly horrific.
They go on all day about racism and sexism, yet appear to have a massive blind spot to the racism and sexism emanating from their own tribe.
Too many Tweets, might make a tw@
Kemi Badenoch is apparently the face of white supremacy.
Uncle Tom and House Negro are pretty common assessments.
The Minister-President of Saxony says that the "conflict" in Ukraine should be frozen with Germany acting as an intermediary, even if it would be "bitter for Ukraine".
Do you have an alert system for twitter quotes that will make Europhobes/xenophobes/Francophobes/Germanophobes spit out their tea? I mean, where do you come across this type of "news"? Do you have a friend who works for the Daily Express?
The Minister-President of Saxony says that the "conflict" in Ukraine should be frozen with Germany acting as an intermediary, even if it would be "bitter for Ukraine".
(My own view: the question was poorly phrased. The interviewee gave a perfectly sensible answer.)
"they might not know about the holocaust".....
I just asked my son (just turned 8, finishing year 3) if he knew what the Holocaust was. He gave a very good, basic answer, involving Nazi Germany, Jews, of Jews having to wear stars, the Franks (Ann and Otto), concentration camps and their mass murder. It was not comprehensive, and simplistic, but the answer earned him a Jaffa Cake.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
I was learning about the Holocaust in school 25 years ago and I'm sure we weren't the first.
And the slave trade as a comparable evil?
Are they comparable? They had very different roots and were in a very different form, despite having much commonality. Both were evil, but they were different. As just one example: if the profit motive had been removed from the slave trade, it would have stopped. The Holocaust was directly and indirectly an expense to the Germans - it would have happened even if they had to pay millions to do so. That's not to excuse the slave trade, but to point out the motivations for the evil were very different. That in itself is an important lesson.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
They were certainly comparable from the perspective of the victims, I am guessing. I don't think there is any determining the relative evil as far as motive is concerned. I am not sure the holocaust was a net cost to germany, taking into account expropriations and slave labour. might have been though.
You are rather assuming the benefits from the expropriations accrued to Germany and not senior Nazis.
The benefits from the slave trade accrued to senior toffs.
Not all of them. The slave trade also underpinned the growth of many key industries - obviously banking, sugar and tobacco, but also weapons manufacture, glassware, textiles and metalwork, which were used as barter for slaves on the African coast. Which certainly did benefit ordinary people.
The same wasn't true of the Holocaust. The camps and the materials used in them were, for example, made using slave labour. So it was almost a circular process. Sure, Germans bought the property of the expropriated (later, of the murdered) Jews but often at inflated prices and with the money being squirrelled away by Nazi leaders - Himmler in particular became obscenely rich.
I believe the vast bulk of Mordaunt support will move across to Rishi.
The moderate candidates have literally double the votes of the self-identifying right-wing candidate. That said, Sunak would be easier for Labour to bring down - broke the law, economic disaster. So it would appear Truss is better placed, as all they have is 'promoted beyond their station'. Trouble is, that's so true, it'll be difficult to disguise.
John Major -5 Gordon Brown -8 Theresa May -15 Boris Johnson -24 Tony Blair -34 David Cameron -37
Something doesn't appear to be right. And do those who appear most admired for their 'political' skills end up being least well liked?
Poor John Major. He was nowhere near as bad as many that have since followed him but he has very much gone down as a complete dud in the popular imagination. History will be kinder.
Poor David Cameron - delivering Brexit viewed worse than war criminal Tony Blair.....
Comments
It nearly incited a riot at work.
Abraham Lincoln 6'4"
Stephen Douglas 5'4"
Douglas was re-elected. By Illinois legislature; although more votes were cast statewide for Republican state reps & senators than Democrats, more of the latter were elected than the former.
Of course history has judged Honest Abe to have actually won these debates, and they certainly helped propel him into the Republican nomination for President in 1860, the year he defeated (Northern) Demcrat Douglas, the Little Giant.
BUT it was the immediate aftermath of the Lincoln-Douglas debates that gave SD a 2nd moniker: "Giant Killer".
The person who suggested that the race was between Smarmy vs Barmy had it right.
I asked him where he learnt it, and he said 'school'.
If the *woke agenda in schools* is leading them to learn about that sort of thing, then let's have more of the woke agenda. As I sure as heck didn't at that age.
In that case, perhaps it's a traditional part of that role, believe that Tory Whips have (or had) similar tradition(s).
I think it is far more significant that one of the candidates to become leader of the Conservative Party is an excessively wealthy posh boy, who is known for going in for tax dodging.
I agree with others that if, for example, Sadiq Khan was on the verge of becoming Labour leader more would be made of it than is the case with Sunak now, both in a positive way and in a negative way.
Or maybe Punster Lariat?
Dull Alec vs Smart Alec.
it's not straightforward. Her dad was a maths professor, at a time when one third if all German maths professors were jewish. so she was in a hugely privileged, not disadvantaged, position as a schoolchild (the post being applied for, is teacher training) so not that relevant to children who are disadvantaged by being diverse, at that age.
How about Boris Johnson, My cock and other animals. ?
We had Commonwealth preference for both New Zealand and Australian produce up until 1980.
British farming did fine.
Actual QUEUES down the road. For a bar that’s been there maybe 600 years
Now in soho. Completely jammers
Yes. LONDON IS BACK
The Holocaust was just one example where a people were targeted for extermination (made more complex by the fact the Nazis also went after the disabled, Romanies, Communists and anyone who looked at the in a funny way). But if you learn about one, it is easy to expand your thinking to other examples. And the Holocaust is very easy to relate to, thanks to the reams of documentary evidence, pictures and films we have of the event and the people who died.
Compare to, say, the Armenian Genocide, just three decades earlier, which is sadly much more nebulous.
The phrase "warning from history" is very apt. We could easily see it again; and perhaps did in parts of the ex-Yugoslavia in the 1990s, or Ukraine today.
But others, perhaps @Nigel_Foremain will have more detail.
Edit: as to your substantive point, you don’t seem to have read the comments.
YouGov approval ratings
John Major -5
Gordon Brown -8
Theresa May -15
Boris Johnson -24
Tony Blair -34
David Cameron -37
Something doesn't appear to be right. And do those who appear most admired for their 'political' skills end up being least well liked?
https://twitter.com/MichaelFriese10/status/1549793506800963584?s=20&t=xEeJvoOrL5DOY5-xEclJTQ
The terrace is good though.
As it happens, the little 'un appears to know a small amount about slavery as well - both from school and Horrible Histories...
But that's the point. If you know this sort of thing *can* happen, then it's an easier step to learning it may have happened in other forms, or similar things may have happened, or happen again. That's an important lesson.
There are already "prompt" books for different AIs.
Soho and Covent Garden are chocka. As busy as any weekday night pre covid. Foreign tourists must be back
People say Australian and New Zealand produce might undercut British produce, but then say it might also be largely frozen and processed and British food is better anyway so buy local.
GVA and GDP will increase with both and British farming will be absolutely fine just as it was when it was exposed to the far larger and more proximate EU market of over 400 million people.
IMV the most horrific yet simple picture of the slave trade is the following:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/FOOT(1854)_p038_A_SLAVE_SHIP.jpg
I can't see how anyone can look at that and not feel horror.
Just saying it’s all piss and wind is just glib.
Sunak is low energy British Macron: stabbed too late, let himself be defined by others, didn’t directly engage the press enough doesn’t do enough soapbox. If he’d been able to dial it all up a few notches he’d be prime minister.
https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1549808594111045634?cxt=HHwWhICxnZCtg4IrAAAA
"Kwasi Kwarteng becomes third cabinet minister to duck appearance before parliamentary committee."
Link
https://twitter.com/derspiegel/status/1549810143570776064
This looks to be an impressive government response to counter abuse of the UK legal system by the super-rich: The reforms will introduce "a new statutory early dismissal process to stop these [SLAPP]cases – allowing judges to throw out claims that lack merit."
https://twitter.com/CatherineBelton/status/1549718165915058176
Would Germany have won the war if Hitler had not made Jews the enemy (*)? Probably not. But their talent and manpower would have been a great help to them. But he needed a minority to make the enemy, and Jews have sadly always been a good target for that.
(*) Leaving aside the blacks, the disabled, communists, and people who looked at him in a funny way.
They go on all day about racism and sexism, yet appear to have a massive blind spot to the racism and sexism emanating from their own tribe.
Too many Tweets, might make a tw@
Tony Blair always seemed to have more control of his backbenches, but then it was an issue of what he chose to do with that power.
The same wasn't true of the Holocaust. The camps and the materials used in them were, for example, made using slave labour. So it was almost a circular process. Sure, Germans bought the property of the expropriated (later, of the murdered) Jews but often at inflated prices and with the money being squirrelled away by Nazi leaders - Himmler in particular became obscenely rich.