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Yet again the Oxford stranglehold on No.10 continues – politicalbetting.com

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  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Shit…

    Natural gas up 55% today

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    This winter is gonna be brutally cold and/or expensive for the poor throughout the country.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:

    Sunak is going to lose and a whole section of the commentariat will be completely bemused despite him consistently polling miles behind everyone else in the leadership contents

    The irony being Sunak was the hardcore Brexiter Thatcherite.
    Whilst Truss was the Remainer Lib Dem.
    We have always been at War with Eastasia.
    People evolve, those who don't are rather creepy and untrustworthy - like Corbyn still being stuck with the same views he had in the 1970s.
    Well. Indeed they do.
    However the Tories appear to be searching for the one most resembling their leader in the Seventies.
    Both in appearance and ideas.
    Considering we've got rampant welfare bills and the highest taxes that we've had since the 1970s - and earlier in fact - a leader with similar ideas is entirely logical.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Lol

    Tatler’s social media person arrives home and starts cooking their dinner, smiling at their productive day on Twitter. As they reach for an onion, a small frown appears on their face. With their pasta water bubbling away they suddenly scream “FUCK! WE FORGOT ABOUT THERESA MAY!”

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1549821633250357248/photo/1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can anyone explain why Truss is only 5/6 ?

    Con Home

    Liz Truss: 49 (Last Monday: 51 )

    Rishi Sunak: 42 (Last Monday: 34 )

    Don’t know: 9 (Last Monday: 15 )

    (845 votes cast.)

    Yougov

    54 Truss 35 Sunak (Prior Truss 59 Sunak 35)

    Sunak looks to me to be deeply unpopular amongst the membership who won't forgive him for betraying Boris in their view.

    There's time to go but this is in my view more of a 1-2 / 2-1 contest now. If it was tommorow it'd be more like 1-5 / 5-1.

    I imagine there is a belief that the membership changes its views rapidly upon receiving evidence. For example, I think Mordaunt dropped a little in their eyes and Badenoch surged. But Truss and Sunak are better known. Then you have to ask what's the probability that Truss performs disastrously and Sunak is resilient. Given what happened in the debates, I doubt it. She held her own eventually.
    Perhaps more importantly we've got ~ 6 weeks of soft soap for Liz and 6 weeks of brickbats for Rishi in the rw press
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11033315/Liz-Truss-vows-hold-emergency-tax-cut-budget-build-aspiration-nation-defend-country.html

    The rw papers broke Penny's campaign, and I think they'll do for Rishi.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706

    Henrik Stenson, Jason Kokrak and Charles Howell III latest LIV golf singings.

    Only Kokrak is top 50. Not sure PGA Tour will lose sleep over those names going.

    World Rankings - Stenson 171, Howell 173.

    Stenson is obviously a reasonably big name as Open Champion in 2016 and Ryder Cup captain (albeit now removed).

    But worth remembering LIV tournaments only have 48 players. So signing Howell sort of suggests they aren't expecting that many more very big names - because if they are then in due course they wouldn't have room for Howell in their fields.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?
    Published 2007, which shows what old stuff this nonsense is. I am only not dead because modern antidepressants exist, and I am quite happy to reciprocate the author's interest in my treatment by hoping she contracts something physical, lingering and incurable.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Sky News: "Only 6% of Tory members live in Scotland". Not far off the percentage of the UK population that live in Scotland.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    ping said:

    Shit…

    Natural gas up 55% today

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    This winter is gonna be brutally cold and/or expensive for the poor throughout the country.

    Forget tax cuts, HMG should cap energy prices back to where they were 18 months ago, for the next 3 years.

    How?: Wealth tax, windfall tax on energy companies where they are in profit and a subsidy for when they are not, extra borrowing.

    The Tories could buy themselves enough of a breather to get through the next GE. Plus inflation would come down (so lower wage demands) and the economy will keep going.

    They won't do it of course.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    kle4 said:

    Belated comment, but I am most disappointed Boris signed off with hasta la vista rather than some ancient greek or latin phrase. It's like he has no idea of his own brand. I mean, it was just crying out for a sic transit gloria mundi or honestas ante honeres.

    The reference was Arnie’s other famous quote in that film…

    “I’ll be back”…
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    MikeL said:

    Henrik Stenson, Jason Kokrak and Charles Howell III latest LIV golf singings.

    Only Kokrak is top 50. Not sure PGA Tour will lose sleep over those names going.

    World Rankings - Stenson 171, Howell 173.

    Stenson is obviously a reasonably big name as Open Champion in 2016 and Ryder Cup captain (albeit now removed).

    But worth remembering LIV tournaments only have 48 players. So signing Howell sort of suggests they aren't expecting that many more very big names - because if they are then in due course they wouldn't have room for Howell in their fields.
    Not sure this is necessarily true. Next season they have announced it will be 14 events and players aren't going to play every event.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    ping said:

    Lol

    Tatler’s social media person arrives home and starts cooking their dinner, smiling at their productive day on Twitter. As they reach for an onion, a small frown appears on their face. With their pasta water bubbling away they suddenly scream “FUCK! WE FORGOT ABOUT THERESA MAY!”

    https://twitter.com/Pandamoanimum/status/1549821633250357248/photo/1

    Tatler's social media person is young - maybe they forgot about Thatcher 🤣
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News: "Only 6% of Tory members live in Scotland". Not far off the percentage of the UK population that live in Scotland.

    As we found with COVID, Sky News are great with n3mbers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
    Indeed, his phd was on 'the mating system of the common pheasant (Phasianus colchicus)' an unusual choice for a future bank chairman

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Ridley
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    Belated comment, but I am most disappointed Boris signed off with hasta la vista rather than some ancient greek or latin phrase. It's like he has no idea of his own brand. I mean, it was just crying out for a sic transit gloria mundi or honestas ante honeres.

    The reference was Arnie’s other famous quote in that film…

    “I’ll be back”…
    I'll be back was the first film (tediously reprised in subsequent ones), HLV is T2.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I don't think that is a big secret, it has been in all the papers years ago, especially when he had a go at the protestors.
    There are wilder stories than that

    OH me chime o midnight
    You saying Fizzy Lizzy might actually be a bit fizzy and not as so far seems like B&M out of date rola cola.
    i;m saying it's ironic she lost to kemi Badenoch, nadine Dorries, rishi Sunak and penny Mordaunt
    Your coded message is so difficult to decode, I am going to have to deploy a new DeepMind AI to work it out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.









  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
    NED?

    He is a proper scientist and a very good writer of pop biology sci, though again that doesn't necessarily equip him for the role.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I don't think that is a big secret, it has been in all the papers years ago, especially when he had a go at the protestors.
    There are wilder stories than that

    OH me chime o midnight
    You saying Fizzy Lizzy might actually be a bit fizzy and not as so far seems like B&M out of date rola cola.
    i;m saying it's ironic she lost to kemi Badenoch, nadine Dorries, rishi Sunak and penny Mordaunt
    Your coded message is so difficult to decode, I am going to have to deploy a new DeepMind AI to work it out.
    Alternatively, ask the AI to write @Leon's posts; they'd probably be more comprehensible and he'd get banned less often.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I don't think that is a big secret, it has been in all the papers years ago, especially when he had a go at the protestors.
    There are wilder stories than that

    OH me chime o midnight
    You saying Fizzy Lizzy might actually be a bit fizzy and not as so far seems like B&M out of date rola cola.
    i;m saying it's ironic she lost to kemi Badenoch, nadine Dorries, rishi Sunak and penny Mordaunt
    Your coded message is so difficult to decode, I am going to have to deploy a new DeepMind AI to work it out.
    As long as we don't have a DALLE or whatever it is called mock-up image of the whole sordid thing.
  • Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited July 2022
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct

    ETA I see Szasz is same era
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Pulpstar said:

    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can anyone explain why Truss is only 5/6 ?

    Con Home

    Liz Truss: 49 (Last Monday: 51 )

    Rishi Sunak: 42 (Last Monday: 34 )

    Don’t know: 9 (Last Monday: 15 )

    (845 votes cast.)

    Yougov

    54 Truss 35 Sunak (Prior Truss 59 Sunak 35)

    Sunak looks to me to be deeply unpopular amongst the membership who won't forgive him for betraying Boris in their view.

    There's time to go but this is in my view more of a 1-2 / 2-1 contest now. If it was tommorow it'd be more like 1-5 / 5-1.

    I imagine there is a belief that the membership changes its views rapidly upon receiving evidence. For example, I think Mordaunt dropped a little in their eyes and Badenoch surged. But Truss and Sunak are better known. Then you have to ask what's the probability that Truss performs disastrously and Sunak is resilient. Given what happened in the debates, I doubt it. She held her own eventually.
    Perhaps more importantly we've got ~ 6 weeks of soft soap for Liz and 6 weeks of brickbats for Rishi in the rw press
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11033315/Liz-Truss-vows-hold-emergency-tax-cut-budget-build-aspiration-nation-defend-country.html

    The rw papers broke Penny's campaign, and I think they'll do for Rishi.
    More the turning off of life support than breaking of him.
  • Less than 5 years in age between the candidates
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718

    ping said:

    Shit…

    Natural gas up 55% today

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas

    This winter is gonna be brutally cold and/or expensive for the poor throughout the country.

    Forget tax cuts, HMG should cap energy prices back to where they were 18 months ago, for the next 3 years.

    How?: Wealth tax, windfall tax on energy companies where they are in profit and a subsidy for when they are not, extra borrowing.

    The Tories could buy themselves enough of a breather to get through the next GE. Plus inflation would come down (so lower wage demands) and the economy will keep going.

    They won't do it of course.
    Isn't that was Macron has done?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Can anyone explain why Truss is only 5/6 ?

    Con Home

    Liz Truss: 49 (Last Monday: 51 )

    Rishi Sunak: 42 (Last Monday: 34 )

    Don’t know: 9 (Last Monday: 15 )

    (845 votes cast.)

    Yougov

    54 Truss 35 Sunak (Prior Truss 59 Sunak 35)

    Sunak looks to me to be deeply unpopular amongst the membership who won't forgive him for betraying Boris in their view.

    There's time to go but this is in my view more of a 1-2 / 2-1 contest now. If it was tommorow it'd be more like 1-5 / 5-1.

    Punters believe that Truss is actually Jeremy Hunt in disguise?

    Punters believe that this time YouGov membership polling is wildly wrong?

    Punters believe that this time Tory members are going to carefully watch debates and hustings over a period of weeks where Sunak will turn it around and not just send their vote back ASAP?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I heard of multiple instances, if we're talking about the same thing.
    What is Joanna Lumley’s relaxation device of choice?

  • Andy_JS said:
    I'm not seeing much difference between that photo and her today, apart from a decade's ageing.

    Shorter hair, but that's not that unusual as women get older, other than that unless I'm blind I'm not seeing much of a difference.
  • Andrew Pierce has become utterly pathetic (I know some might say 'even more')

    He is really, really poor on Sky paper review.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022

    Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?

    Because Death Rigby doesn't ask a question, she makes hour long statements dressed up as a question, thus the debate would be her talking and nothing from the candidates?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Well, the end game of the Italian parliament looks totally unavoidable now, September election it will be. Predicting the end of an Italian government is hardly high in brownie points, but pleased to have read the mechanics well over the last year with my basic understanding.

    Perhaps I need to get out of the bubble a bit and simplify my understanding of UK politics where my record is more mixed!

    In terms of how Italian governments are normally counted, worth noting that the UK is soon to be on its 6th administration since June 2016 (Cameron 2, May 1/2, Johnson 1/2, Sunak or Truss 1)). Italy after GE would still edge it with 6 since December 2016 (Renzi, Gentiloni. Conte 1/2, Draghi, ?Meloni?)

    And currently leading the polls is the hard right Brothers of Italy's Giorgia Meloni who makes Liz Truss look wet
    It's the coalition status that kills it. If the left could have managed a big tent coalition, the polls would have been about 48/44 and it looked like game on. But M5S have made themselves uncoalitionable in the last fortnight, so the likely result now looks more like 48/35 and MPR showing a majority of 80 on a 400 seat lower house (the upper house will very much mirror) for the right. The way that coalition works the largest party within it would get the PM role, and there's little doubt Meloni wins that.

    The left's electoral approach?

    1. Make sure everyone else is in the tent, the leftists, PD, and centrists - every last Draghi loyalist.
    2. See if Draghi will be your PM candidate, perhaps include a Lista Draghi in your coalition (though high chance he will.not be up for this)
    3. Encourage M5S implosion. Their abstentions are not a sign of a happy party. Hope some votes come your way. (Has to be said that 10% may be their hardcore floor).
    4. Be clear and united. If there's a chance of a good campaign and a closer result, a 47/41 say, do everything in your power to get there.
    5. The prize is to reduce that majority and ensure Forza hold the balance of power.
    6. Maximise any discomfort in the right, both on Forza's place in government and on splittists (in this parliament now, around 25% represent different parties than those they were elected under!)




    Forza will likely hold the balance of power but in the end probably go with Meloni who is the change candidate, leading the only major party which has been in opposition not part of this collapsing government
    Forza will go in on day 1 for sure. It's more if a pretty hardcore government go a bit too far, FI can moderate, bail or suffer defection some way down the line.
  • Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?

    Burley at least pretends to be interested in letting other people get a word in edgewise, unlike Death Rigby.
  • Truss, the marital infidel, is fortunate to follow Johnson the permanent cheater
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:

    Sunak is going to lose and a whole section of the commentariat will be completely bemused despite him consistently polling miles behind everyone else in the leadership contents

    The irony being Sunak was the hardcore Brexiter Thatcherite.
    Whilst Truss was the Remainer Lib Dem.
    We have always been at War with Eastasia.
    People evolve, those who don't are rather creepy and untrustworthy - like Corbyn still being stuck with the same views he had in the 1970s.
    Well. Indeed they do.
    However the Tories appear to be searching for the one most resembling their leader in the Seventies.
    Both in appearance and ideas.
    Considering we've got rampant welfare bills and the highest taxes that we've had since the 1970s - and earlier in fact - a leader with similar ideas is entirely logical.
    Yeah but. Tory government got us here.
    Time for a change.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I heard of multiple instances, if we're talking about the same thing.
    What is Joanna Lumley’s relaxation device of choice?

    A homeless Gurkha?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022

    Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?

    Burley at least pretends to be interested in letting other people get a word in edgewise, unlike Death Rigby.
    Lets just hope Burley doesn't have any say over what the questions will be....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012

    Andrew Pierce has become utterly pathetic (I know some might say 'even more')

    He is really, really poor on Sky paper review.

    I never watch it these days, the Pierce and Maguire shtick is tedious.
  • Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?

    Burley at least pretends to be interested in letting other people get a word in edgewise, unlike Death Rigby.
    Lets just hope Burley doesn't have any say over what the questions will be....
    Because if she does we'll have one hour of the same absurd question getting repeated over and over?

    Maybe trying to get the candidates to define what a substantial meal is?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    I wasn't pitching the "Myth" book as being the answer of all answers merely that it was an interesting read if you interested in these debates.

    Believe me for reasons I wont go into I think psychiatric meds can be lifesavers in some cases.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    God how I despise Foucault and all the little French and English sub-Foucaults. His typical (indeed only) essay, say about bathrooms, says that naive and stupid historians used to define these as rooms with baths in them: but we must regard them as social constructs, defined by the patriarchy as the structuralist negation of the not-bathroom, with a fundamentally liminal quality etc etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718

    Less than 5 years in age between the candidates

    At least we can be pleased that whoever wins we will not have a premier who is basically too old to do the job but is about to be replaced by another person who is too old with a parliament that is overseen by people too old to do the job.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    I heard of multiple instances, if we're talking about the same thing.
    What is Joanna Lumley’s relaxation device of choice?

    A homeless Gurkha?
    Her gurkha shtick is fucking hilarious; Daddy used to have them when I was growing up and they were adorable, every bit as loyal as spaniels and very nearly as intelligent.
  • HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have
    much common touch.


    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    Which article?

    I linked to various search results on the affair between Truss and Field
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    As Thatcher almost said, "Johnson only works until he runs out of other people's money to spend".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022

    Why are Sky debates hosted by Bay Kurley, rather than Reth Bigby?

    Burley at least pretends to be interested in letting other people get a word in edgewise, unlike Death Rigby.
    Lets just hope Burley doesn't have any say over what the questions will be....
    Because if she does we'll have one hour of the same absurd question getting repeated over and over?

    Maybe trying to get the candidates to define what a substantial meal is?
    I am now having COVID Kay PTSD.....I remember her badgering some minister over the policy of journalists travelling in cars on motorways at off peak hours, will the police be monitoring this traffic and how will they know if it is journalist, should they be expected to be stopped etc etc etc.

    The f##king whole country is going into lockdown and you are blabbering on about the edge case of an edge case of an edge case. I think Margaret from Margate is more concerned if she is going to friggin die not about a journalist travel scheduling.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have
    much common touch.


    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    Which article?

    I linked to various search results on the affair between Truss and Field
    https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/who-is-liz-truss-affair-cheese/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,718
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    God how I despise Foucault and all the little French and English sub-Foucaults. His typical (indeed only) essay, say about bathrooms, says that naive and stupid historians used to define these as rooms with baths in them: but we must regard them as social constructs, defined by the patriarchy as the structuralist negation of the not-bathroom, with a fundamentally liminal quality etc etc
    Foucault is one of the roots of woke iirc?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Alistair said:

    Sunak is going to lose and a whole section of the commentariat will be completely bemused despite him consistently polling miles behind everyone else in the leadership contents

    The irony being Sunak was the hardcore Brexiter Thatcherite.
    Whilst Truss was the Remainer Lib Dem.
    We have always been at War with Eastasia.
    People evolve, those who don't are rather creepy and untrustworthy - like Corbyn still being stuck with the same views he had in the 1970s.
    Well. Indeed they do.
    However the Tories appear to be searching for the one most resembling their leader in the Seventies.
    Both in appearance and ideas.
    Considering we've got rampant welfare bills and the highest taxes that we've had since the 1970s - and earlier in fact - a leader with similar ideas is entirely logical.
    Yeah but. Tory government got us here.
    Time for a change.
    Besides, Maggie started with some pretty brutal tax rises in 1979-81. The subsequent good times were, by her narrative, earned the hard way. And that was Maggie's self-image.

    Sunak recognises that, which is a large part of why Johnson hated him so much even before the last fortnight.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
    Indeed, his phd was on 'the mating system of the common pheasant (Phasianus colchicus)' an unusual choice for a future bank chairman

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Ridley
    His career is as a science writer and journalist. Primogeniture also means he is a significant landowner in and around Newcastle (I think) hence the link to Northern Rock
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    God how I despise Foucault and all the little French and English sub-Foucaults. His typical (indeed only) essay, say about bathrooms, says that naive and stupid historians used to define these as rooms with baths in them: but we must regard them as social constructs, defined by the patriarchy as the structuralist negation of the not-bathroom, with a fundamentally liminal quality etc etc
    Foucault is one of the roots of woke iirc?
    Bound to be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    That was more his wife, Boris is fine having a pie and a pint at the local pub
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    That was more his wife, Boris is fine having a pie and a pint at the local pub
    As long as somebody else is paying.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,662
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?
    Published 2007, which shows what old stuff this nonsense is. I am only not dead because modern antidepressants exist, and I am quite happy to reciprocate the author's interest in my treatment by hoping she contracts something physical, lingering and incurable.
    I enjoyed the opening few lines of the pamphlet on general anaesthetic I got before I went under - roughly, "we don't really know why this works"

    Oddly reassuring. The anaesthetist was very relaxed and open about it with me - "it's the nerve block you need to worry about pal".
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
    NED?

    He is a proper scientist and a very good writer of pop biology sci, though again that doesn't necessarily equip him for the role.
    Non executive director

    The point is he isn’t a career banker. He’s a local grandee and successful journalist. Typical non executive on the board of a regional bank

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    I’ve been listening to a prime piece of William Orbit-produced early 90s house recently which contains the immortal words:

    “Getting results from consenting adults
    Jamming your signal with 40,000 volts
    This is Lizzy
    I’m getting busy”

    Ought to be her theme song really.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Eabhal said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?
    Published 2007, which shows what old stuff this nonsense is. I am only not dead because modern antidepressants exist, and I am quite happy to reciprocate the author's interest in my treatment by hoping she contracts something physical, lingering and incurable.
    I enjoyed the opening few lines of the pamphlet on general anaesthetic I got before I went under - roughly, "we don't really know why this works"

    Oddly reassuring. The anaesthetist was very relaxed and open about it with me - "it's the nerve block you need to worry about pal".
    Check out the extraordinary circs in which lithium was found to treat bipolar depression

    Also in 1949, the Australian psychiatrist John Cade rediscovered the usefulness of lithium salts in treating mania. Cade was injecting rodents with urine extracts taken from manic patients in an attempt to isolate a metabolic compound which might be causing mental symptoms. Since uric acid in gout was known to be psychoactive, (adenosine receptors on neurons are stimulated by it; caffeine blocks them), Cade needed soluble urate for a control. He used lithium urate, already known to be the most soluble urate compound, and observed that it caused the rodents to become tranquil. Cade traced the effect to the lithium ion itself, and after ingesting lithium himself to ensure its safety in humans, he proposed lithium salts as tranquilizers. He soon succeeded in controlling mania in chronically hospitalized patients with them. This was one of the first successful applications of a drug to treat mental illness, and it opened the door for the development of medicines for other mental problems in the next decades.[99]
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    Part of Boris's success has been down to his weird Jedi mind trick where he can make people feel bad for questioning him. Some people have it, and it's blooming scary. It means he can say or do absurdly contradictory things and get away with it.

    I don't think Rishi has it. Liz might do, but nowhere near as much as the master. In which case, la Truss wins this bout and then comes unstuck fairly quickly afterwards.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Does Sunak's prudence story have an empirical backing? I only remember him being beloved for two years of Covid free money, followed by another ten billion of free fuel duty money.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    That was more his wife, Boris is fine having a pie and a pint at the local pub
    He's eaten all the pies by the look of it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says Truss hosted a £3,000 work lunch at a private members' club having refused to consider anywhere else. Sounds like neither she nor Rishi have much common touch.

    I can't see many of the working class voters who voted for Boris having much enthusiasm for either of them
    That's probably true, though Boris's own common touch has always been a bit strange, given he's the kind of man who thinks nothing of spending tens of thousands he doesn't even have on gaudy wallpaper.
    That was more his wife, Boris is fine having a pie and a pint at the local pub
    He's eaten all the pies by the look of it.
    Body shamer...
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around
    this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    God how I despise Foucault and all the little French and English sub-Foucaults. His typical (indeed only) essay, say about bathrooms, says that naive and stupid historians used to define these as rooms with baths in them: but we must regard them as social constructs, defined by the patriarchy as the structuralist negation of the not-bathroom, with a fundamentally liminal quality etc etc
    Foucault is one of the roots of woke iirc?
    That, Stewart Lee, Kemi Badenoch and the new Top Gear presenters

    Iirc
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Good evening everyone.
    Bit pissed.

    Two observations: went to my youngest's leavers assembly today at her infant school. I had previously said that primary schools were not particularly woke. Which they aren't, by the standards of secondary schools. But the three historical figures that had apparently been learned about in the past year were Rosa Parks, Emmeline Pankhurst and Marcus Rashford.
    Now two of those are certainly historical figures of note. But I still can't help feeling that the list is a little campaigner-heavy. I'd quite like inventors, explorers etc to feature in the list of inspirational figures too.

    Second observation is that I have been out drinking with some intelligent but politically ambivalent people this evening, who were astonished to discover that a) that the next stage is up to Conservative Party members, and that b) Liz has quite a following among Conservative Party members, and that therefore c) it might not be Rishi. All assumed it was a foregone conclusion. Also, some of these people gamble recreationally.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634
    Cookie said:

    Second observation is that I have been out drinking with some intelligent but politically ambivalent people this evening, who were astonished to discover that a) that the next stage is up to Conservative Party members, and that b) Liz has quite a following among Conservative Party members, and that therefore c) it might not be Rishi. All assumed it was a foregone conclusion. Also, some of these people gamble recreationally.

    Is that just because they rated him more highly or had they been following the MPs' votes?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    Cookie said:

    Good evening everyone.
    Bit pissed.

    Two observations: went to my youngest's leavers assembly today at her infant school. I had previously said that primary schools were not particularly woke. Which they aren't, by the standards of secondary schools. But the three historical figures that had apparently been learned about in the past year were Rosa Parks, Emmeline Pankhurst and Marcus Rashford.
    Now two of those are certainly historical figures of note. But I still can't help feeling that the list is a little campaigner-heavy. I'd quite like inventors, explorers etc to feature in the list of inspirational figures too.

    Second observation is that I have been out drinking with some intelligent but politically ambivalent people this evening, who were astonished to discover that a) that the next stage is up to Conservative Party members, and that b) Liz has quite a following among Conservative Party members, and that therefore c) it might not be Rishi. All assumed it was a foregone conclusion. Also, some of these people gamble recreationally.

    They really shouldn't be gambling on politics if they don't know simple facts like the ones you mentioned. The rule change on Tory members being involved was introduced in about 1999.

    I agree about the historical figures.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799

    Cookie said:

    Second observation is that I have been out drinking with some intelligent but politically ambivalent people this evening, who were astonished to discover that a) that the next stage is up to Conservative Party members, and that b) Liz has quite a following among Conservative Party members, and that therefore c) it might not be Rishi. All assumed it was a foregone conclusion. Also, some of these people gamble recreationally.

    Is that just because they rated him more highly or had they been following the MPs' votes?
    Both, but principally the latter.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Heartbroken that Penny is out!

    In other news, slumming it in Inverness for the rest of the week. Decided to fly from Gatwick instead of taking the train after an advisory not to travel. But it seems to have left an hour late 1300 and got in at 2148 instead of 2007. My plane left Gatwick an hour late at 2050 and didn't land until 2230. Had to ring for a taxi and finally got to my hotel at 2330 :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    Well if Marcus Rashford isn't careful, talk of his England career will be purely in terms of as a historical figure. Hopefully new Man Utd manager might be able to turn it around for him and Sancho, as both have loads of talent.

    Interesting to note that he is no longer represented by RocNation, the lady who is his primary manager took him there, has left to set up her own agency, and his campaigning has since been a lot more low profile.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Heartbroken that Penny is out!

    In other news, slumming it in Inverness for the rest of the week. Decided to fly from Gatwick instead of taking the train after an advisory not to travel. But it seems to have left an hour late 1300 and got in at 2148 instead of 2007. My plane left Gatwick an hour late at 2050 and didn't land until 2230. Had to ring for a taxi and finally got to my hotel at 2330 :lol:

    Hope they didn't lose your bags.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Heartbroken that Penny is out!

    In other news, slumming it in Inverness for the rest of the week. Decided to fly from Gatwick instead of taking the train after an advisory not to travel. But it seems to have left an hour late 1300 and got in at 2148 instead of 2007. My plane left Gatwick an hour late at 2050 and didn't land until 2230. Had to ring for a taxi and finally got to my hotel at 2330 :lol:

    Hope they didn't lose your bags.
    No checked bags I decided to take my bag into the cabin. Anyway the Kyle of Lochalsh beckons tomorrow!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Rishi Sunak's maiden speech just 7 years ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoQUqlH4eRg
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Again. I'm not criticising anyone on anti-depressants or anything else. Christ knows I've done enough of both legal and illegal medication. It saved my life.
    I just find the subject fascinating.
    I just stopped one day. Haven't kicked my 30 a day habit though.
    Why?

    https://twitter.com/garwboy/status/1549754231527178244
    Have you read the book, "The Myth of the Chemical Cure"?

    Have you read the book "The Myth of Mental Illness"? By a Prof of Psychiatry no less!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mental_Illness

    There is a longstanding anti-psychiatry movement. Indeed there is an even more radical anti-medicine movement.

    Ivan Illich wrote the classic work on this: "Medical Nemisis: the limits of medicine"

    I have read both of these, but ultimately they are wrong.
    R D Laing was giving it large in the 60s about how madness is a purely social construct
    Yes there are interesting ideas around this. Foucault was keen to dismiss many sorts of problems like madness or criminality as socially constructed power and oppression.

    Ultimately though it fails the reality test. Madness and criminality exist outside power relationships too.
    God how I despise Foucault and all the little French and English sub-Foucaults. His typical (indeed only) essay, say about bathrooms, says that naive and stupid historians used to define these as rooms with baths in them: but we must regard them as social constructs, defined by the patriarchy as the structuralist negation of the not-bathroom, with a fundamentally liminal quality etc etc
    That sounds perfectly reasonable.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi Sunak's maiden speech just 7 years ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoQUqlH4eRg

    Star quality, even then.

    Seven years ago, and feels like it comes from another age. Talk of protecting rural services, supporting local farmers, and boosting exports belongs to another more Cameroonian era.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    edited July 2022

    Heartbroken that Penny is out!

    In rejecting the lovely Penny Con have found the oblivion of Opposition!

    KEEP CALMER. VOTE STARMER!!!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "As a major study overturns decades of received wisdom that depression is caused by a lack of serotonin in the brain, the verdict of science is now clear - our unhealthy obsession with antidepressants must end
    Peter Hitchens"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11033359/PETER-HITCHENS-unhealthy-obsession-antidepressants-end.html

    He seems to think that patients with depression just need to pull themselves together, perhaps by going for a walk in the country.
    Over 10% of Americans are taking SSRIs. That's surely evidence of a social problem rather than a medical problem.
    Or a problem with the US healthcare system, more likely.
    Some years ago, I noticed and commented on the fact that very often in American movies, the day seems to start with people swallowing a bunch of pills. My flatmate at the time said that he'd noticed the same thing. Fit, healthy people get up, and swallow some pills....
    My American ex-girlfriend would do a valium for almost any reason. Hangover, poor night's sleep, bad day at work, etc.
    She refused, point blank, to accept we would need a prescription. Nor why I just didn't. She took them more than I would a paracetamol.
    They wrote a song about it. Mother's little helper. The Rolling Stones.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusADDs_3ps
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited July 2022
    Cost of living crisis… what cost of living crisis?

    I’ve just spent £84 on 12 tins of (what is apparently) the finest tuna that money can buy.

    I think that makes me, officially, middle class.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.82 Liz Truss 55%
    2.2 Rishi Sunak 45%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.79 Liz Truss 56%
    2.26 Rishi Sunak 44%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "The instinct to resort to expert guidance and thereby remove contentious issues from the realm of public debate takes many forms. Consider Extinction Rebellion, a radical environmental group of marginal prominence but one that has nevertheless articulated a vision for fixing our supposedly broken political systems along these lines. Extinction Rebellion envisions the introduction of “citizens’ assemblies” consisting of a representative portion of the population that would form a “mini-public.” This mini-public would then receive information selected by a caste of experts and formulate various recommendations based on it. The experts would listen to the mini-public’s (nonbinding) recommendations before making their own decisions about what was best."

    https://www.city-journal.org/wokeness-the-highest-stage-of-managerialism
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    All this talk of Americans pill popping reminds me of this:#

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7G9qi9MYhc&ab_channel=gobias33
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897

    Rishi is in a bit in the betting: 11/8 from 6/4 earlier this afternoon.

    I think he's slightly value at the moment but not enough for me to start fiddling with my all green outcome on this one where whoever wins I pocket ≈£100.
    Maybe. I've been trying to think how this might develop and would suggest the Truss camp has been more willing so far to throw mud, principally at Penny Mordaunt, which might lead Rishi to move back out in the betting, as would a repeat of the Yougov or ConHome polls showing Truss more popular with the members, although polling the wider electorate might favour Sunak. So dunno.

    But this makes me wonder if the Conservatives have made another mistake in letting the members vote. Not because the members might choose the wrong one, but because it means another two months of Rishi and Liz attacking each other's economic policy.
    Beth Rigby has had the same thought.

    Conservative leadership contest: The risk is that Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss will trash the Tory party even further
    https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-leadership-contest-the-risk-is-that-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-will-trash-the-tory-party-even-further-12655882
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897
    Daily Mirror front page: Out of the Lying Man & into the dire.
    https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1549875874228588545
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    Rishi is in a bit in the betting: 11/8 from 6/4 earlier this afternoon.

    I think he's slightly value at the moment but not enough for me to start fiddling with my all green outcome on this one where whoever wins I pocket ≈£100.
    Maybe. I've been trying to think how this might develop and would suggest the Truss camp has been more willing so far to throw mud, principally at Penny Mordaunt, which might lead Rishi to move back out in the betting, as would a repeat of the Yougov or ConHome polls showing Truss more popular with the members, although polling the wider electorate might favour Sunak. So dunno.

    But this makes me wonder if the Conservatives have made another mistake in letting the members vote. Not because the members might choose the wrong one, but because it means another two months of Rishi and Liz attacking each other's economic policy.
    Beth Rigby has had the same thought.

    Conservative leadership contest: The risk is that Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss will trash the Tory party even further
    https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-leadership-contest-the-risk-is-that-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-will-trash-the-tory-party-even-further-12655882
    Maybe so, but Rigby is one of those commentators - the media is full of them - that actually seems to know very little about the politics they are covering.

    Peston is the nadir though. Bloody hopeless.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897

    Andrew Pierce has become utterly pathetic (I know some might say 'even more')

    He is really, really poor on Sky paper review.

    I never watch it these days, the Pierce and Maguire shtick is tedious.
    Interesting speculation that Boris might edit the Evening Standard, following George Osborne and SamCam's sister. The Standard is owned by Lord Lebedev, ennobled by Boris, reportedly against MI6 advice.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,897
    New thread.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    ydoethur said:

    53 years ago today, mankind first walked on the Moon.

    It will not be 10 years before the next man or woman walks on the moon.
    And it will not be 20 years before someone takes a first step on Mars.

    Agreed. It will be more like 30 and 50.
    ;)

    Mars is very uncertain, even if Loony Musk said in 2018 that there would be a base on Mars by 2028 (hint: he's wrong.) But if he can maintain funding and not have to waste all his money buying Twitter for way over its value, then 20 years, or 9 synods, would be doable. In fact, I reckon 9 years of 4 synods may be possible. The people may not get back, though ...

    As for the Moon: the US's Artemis program is due to land humans back on the Moon in 2025. If they fail, China is considering one by 2027; if not, the early 2030s.
    Given Musk's recent travails, he's more likely to get sued for pulling out of paying for the Mars base, or something.
    Over ten years I've gone from a position of really admiring Musk (albeit whilst knowing he could be slightly dickish) to a position of thinking he is an utter twat whose success is mostly dependent on lucky timing, relentless self-PR and hordes of brainless fans.

    I like his ambition for getting to Mars, and wanting transport to go electric. I dislike the way he goes about it, and the shitty things he does.
    Musk really messes with people's pattern matching because he's a massive bullshiter, but also he sometimes delivers. I feel like PayPal, Tesla and SpaceX are too many actual deliveries to just be lucky timing etc.

    Also the hordes of brainless fans are part of the recipe, because he can make things that are seriously inferior in important ways to the existing thing, and they'll still buy them and shill them. This is an ability Steve Jobs also had: If you can make people accept something very shitty on one axis, you can make something that's better on another axis than any of your competitors.
    Paypal: nah. It was one of many companies, and he did not actually found it: Musk's company (Cofinity or something) was bought out by Thiel's crew. He made a few millions from it. They then chucked him out, and sold it to Ebay for billions. (From memory.)

    Tesla is a true achievement. If only he did not b/s the autopilot feature. But would it have been successful without the electric car credits in the US?

    SpaceX is a massive achievement but he was also very lucky with timing. If it had not been for the cargo services contracts, they'd be lucky to be at the base Falcon 9 stage by now.

    Musk is like Branson: a bullshitter for whom image and branding matters more than substance. Which is why they apparently get on so well.

    But I say again; SpaceX is a massive achievement. I won't take that away from him.
    The other thing he actually does, is doing stuff.

    When I worked in the oil business, the company I was with had a huge green sub-company. Massively expanding, solar cells, hydrogen, the works. Was it green washing? Well, the scale of the investment - billions - was serious. Even in downturns, management kept pouring money in.

    One thing they kept asking was for the companies claiming they were building a fuel cell car, to actually deliver some so they could test full cycle - pumps, driving, maintenance etc. It was always a case of "well we have these concepts, but the government subsidies haven't come through to actually build some. So no."

    Years and years of that....

    So when Tesla actually built some concept cars (the roadsters were really that) - people sat up. Then they started mass producing cars. And then building huge factories etc etc.

    With supercharging, everyone else waited for the government fund a charging network. Tesla just went and built one.

    Musk isn't like Branson - Branson is generally selling some crap he really doesn't understand. The interview where Branson claimed that ITAR meant he knew nothing about how SpaceShip Two worked is.. just embarrassing. Compare that to Musk actually knowing what ISP is.

    It's worth noting that if the US gets back to the Moon, it's because they are buying the lander from SpaceX. Yes, they spent the whole budget on SLS and Orion. The actual lander is going to be (essentially) SpaceX's Starship.
    Yes, Musk knows about some stuff - so does Branson. But Musk evidently knows f-all about tunnelling, if the Boring Company is anything to go by. Or public transport for the Hyperloop. He is one of these people who suffers from the all-too human problem of authoritatively talking outside his area of expertise. But because he's Musk, people believe it...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    No. More recent. Current, in fact.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Cyclefree said:

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I've just heard a delicious piece of gossip about La Truss which will surprise no-one on here. From someone in government. Cannot say more for obvious reasons.

    Husband is voting for Sunak on the grounds that he is a grown up and Truss is mad.

    I think I heard the same thing @Cyclefree and it obviously going around. Does it involve a certain Mr Field?
    No. More recent. Current, in fact.
    I've heard similar.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well if she couldn't even win the Telegraph who could she win? Though the fact the author was chairman of Northern Rock before it went bust in the crash might not be the best encouragement to Tories of prospects under her leadership!
    The fact that it was Matt Ridley that wrote it rather than random Torygrapher makes it more interesting

    You may jibe at his role with Northern Rock, but he held the position is the local magnate rather than being a banker - classical NED type
    Indeed, his phd was on 'the mating system of the common pheasant (Phasianus colchicus)' an unusual choice for a future bank chairman

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Ridley
    I would have thought learning about how a lot of Cocks randomly and wantonly screw absolutely everything would have been an excellent preparation for working at Northern Rock.
This discussion has been closed.