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LDs move to a 78% chance in Tiverton and Honiton – politicalbetting.com

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Seattle Times ($) - At Microsoft, a back-to-office ‘normal’ may not happen this year

    The Redmond tech giant, which has probably gamed out the back-to-office challenge as carefully as any organization, says the stream of workers coming back to its own offices has grown steadily since April 4, when the company began requiring work to be in person at least 50% of the time unless employees have permission from their managers.

    “We can watch things like badging data, and it continues to go up for us,” says Jared Spataro, Microsoft’s corporate vice president of modern work, who advises CEO Satya Nadella on hybrid work strategy. The company had roughly 57,000 employees in Redmond, Bellevue and Seattle in 2021.

    Still, Microsoft won’t say exactly how close it is to hitting its back-to-office goals, other than to warn that it’s probably not imminent. To the contrary, Spataro says it could be six to nine months — early 2023, in other words — before Microsoft has a clear idea what a post-pandemic workplace “equilibrium” looks like. He also thinks many other office-based employers face a similar wait, despite some forecasts of a back-to-office surge by fall.

    One factor: Microsoft thinks employees with kids will need to get through several months of the 2022-23 school year before they can settle into “a predictable rhythm of work patterns,” Spataro says.

    “I don’t think summer will give us a good view,” he added. . . .

    Microsoft’s ultracautious approach fits with its well-known obsession with measuring everything. But it also reflects the slower-than-expected pace of the broader back-to-office trend, which has seen office occupancy stuck under 45% for months, according to one widely watched tracking website. And office workers expect to spend an average of 2.7 days a week in the office, according to a recent survey by a commercial real estate company. . . .

    In May, Microsoft said it was boosting salaries and stock compensation as part of retention efforts. . . . .

    Microsoft is also leaning on existing internal norms and performance metrics that reward collective behavior. For example, Microsoft has found that more recent hires are more eager to be the office to network and learn “the culture and the feel of this new organization,” Spataro says. That in turn has allowed Microsoft to push other employees by saying, “We need … you in [the office] so that we can create that” culture, Spataro says.

    But the pandemic has also highlighted the limits of conventional corporate norms, not least around what Microsoft employees call “the deal,” or employment terms. Although salary and other financial compensation is a key part of that deal, workplace flexibility is growing in importance, Spataro says. “How, when and where you work … is going to be a permanent feature of the labor market going forward.”
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,440
    edited June 23
    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    Two issues stand out:

    1) is the candidate country willing to meet the accession criteria? Turkey was very unwilling to do so, across a wide range of areas.

    2) is any country going to veto? Possible for any, but highly likely for Turkey, unless it has made major changes in its society.
    See, the thing everything forgets about this, is that in 2016, right before the referendum, there was a massive EU refugee crisis, which Turkey was seen as absolutely key to solving. The fear was that the EU would fudge Turkey's accession in exchange for co-operating on the Syrian refugee front, forcing countries to withdraw objections via the usual horse trading (ie, bribery and threats).

    It didn't happen. But it sure as hell looked plausible for a while.

    I imagine that Ukraine won't accede for a while (if ever), as their economy is in pieces and will probably remain so for years. Today's events are the EU maximising rhetoric in a way that costs nothing, since Ukraine has nothing the EU wants.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,383

    Novicock said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/23/donbas-price-peace-ukraine-says-church-england/
    Apparently the Ukraine should cede Donbas to Russia 'for peace'.
    Honestly, what is it with these lefties? Why shouldn't Russia cede Donbas to Ukraine 'for peace'?
    The Church of England are absolutely bonkers.

    The Bishop of Leeds should shut his stupid fucking mouth.
    According to his twitter feed, that's not what he said. Rather he said that Russia should be condemned and opposed, but that in the paper tabling a motion for debate on the Church of England's response he notes suggestions have been made that Russia should be given territory to stop attacking.

    Ukrainian integrity is unequivocal. Debate is not a statement of church’s mind.

    https://twitter.com/nickbaines/status/1540042387728306176

    And it is the Daily Telegraph. Not a reliable source, particularly on matters to do with the Church of England which it hates with a passion for being apparently some kind of wishy-washy left woke institution of pinkoes (or something).

    So I think it might be worth being a bit careful here.

    There's a certain irony that only four days ago he told his diocesan synod that he wished he could lead a quieter life and avoid controversy, but that would mean he wasn't speaking out on issues of conscience which would be worse.

    https://nickbaines.wordpress.com/2022/06/18/leeds-diocesan-synod/
    It is complete nonsense because there is no peace for Ukrainian people in Russian occupied territory. Russia deliberately terrorises Ukrainians to force them to leave, through indiscriminate attacks, and then deports many of those who remain when Russians occupy the territory, even the broadly Russia-aligned people who are left end up terrorised by the thugs Russia leaves in charge.

    It's basically an argument that people should lay down their arms and die for "peace".

    If someone like Ramzan Kadyrov running your country is the "peaceful" outcome then keep fighting.
    Is that so, I thought in Kherson region the Russians pay the pensions, provide the banking services and telecommunications network. Not exactly what the Israelis do to the Palestinians let alone what the Ukrainians do the Russian speakers.
    Oooh! New troll!
    Hired today, but goon tomorrow.
  • pingping Posts: 2,211

    ping said:

    Very off topic, but…

    Audible.

    They’ve been screwing me over lately. I’ve had a membership for a while, paying £7.99/month bit not really using it. I built up 6 credits, but that’s the maximum they will allow. They kept on charging me, but not giving any more credits. If I were to cancel, I’d lose all my credits. They do allow a 3 month membership pause, which I’ve done a couple of times. I tried to pause again today only to be met with “you’re not eligible for another pause.”

    Infuriating.

    This is shitty business practice. Subscription abuse.

    So I rang up customer services and, politely, gave them a piece of my mind.

    They gave in and reinstated all the credits I’d paid for but not received. 6 additional credits, worth ~£48.

    Success!

    What is the point if you do not use it anyway? Unless you foresee a lifestyle change, might it be better to write it off and quit?
    I guess it’s the sunk cost fallacy. Losing the credits I’ve already paid for sucks. I do like audiobooks, and audible are the only game in town, unfortunately.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,104
    ping said:

    Very off topic, but…

    Audible.

    They’ve been screwing me over lately. I’ve had a membership for a while, paying £7.99/month bit not really using it. I built up 6 credits, but that’s the maximum they will allow. They kept on charging me, but not giving any more credits. If I were to cancel, I’d lose all my credits. They do allow a 3 month membership pause, which I’ve done a couple of times. I tried to pause again today only to be met with “you’re not eligible for another pause.”

    Infuriating.

    This is shitty business practice. Subscription abuse.

    So I rang up customer services and, politely, gave them a piece of my mind.

    They gave in and reinstated all the credits I’d paid for but not received. 6 additional credits, worth ~£48.

    Success!

    Nicely done.

    I'm currently dealing with an organisation that thinks it's acceptable to let people sign up for a subscription online but make them phone to cancel...
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,791
    This latest YouGov polling seems rather timely. Sample is 41 leave-leaning seats in the SW, all held by the Conservatives since 2015.

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/mgrpj44dba/CelticFringeVI_15-Jun-2022.pdf

    Aggregate polling (2019 in brackets)
    Con 38 (56.7)
    Lab 24 (19.2)
    LD 22 (19.1)
    Green 8 (3)
    Reform 6 (0.1)

    The Conservatives would lose 11 out of those 41 seats, 6 to Labour, on a uniform swing based on these figures.

    But, in reality, once that anti-Conservative vote starts to coalesce around whichever party is seen to be best place to oust the Tories, they stand to lose a lot more. And I think we'll see an example of just that in one of those 41 seats tonight.

    https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/george-eustice-derek-thomas-would-7244806

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797
    Toms said:

    Novicock said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/23/donbas-price-peace-ukraine-says-church-england/
    Apparently the Ukraine should cede Donbas to Russia 'for peace'.
    Honestly, what is it with these lefties? Why shouldn't Russia cede Donbas to Ukraine 'for peace'?
    The Church of England are absolutely bonkers.

    The Bishop of Leeds should shut his stupid fucking mouth.
    According to his twitter feed, that's not what he said. Rather he said that Russia should be condemned and opposed, but that in the paper tabling a motion for debate on the Church of England's response he notes suggestions have been made that Russia should be given territory to stop attacking.

    Ukrainian integrity is unequivocal. Debate is not a statement of church’s mind.

    https://twitter.com/nickbaines/status/1540042387728306176

    And it is the Daily Telegraph. Not a reliable source, particularly on matters to do with the Church of England which it hates with a passion for being apparently some kind of wishy-washy left woke institution of pinkoes (or something).

    So I think it might be worth being a bit careful here.

    There's a certain irony that only four days ago he told his diocesan synod that he wished he could lead a quieter life and avoid controversy, but that would mean he wasn't speaking out on issues of conscience which would be worse.

    https://nickbaines.wordpress.com/2022/06/18/leeds-diocesan-synod/
    It is complete nonsense because there is no peace for Ukrainian people in Russian occupied territory. Russia deliberately terrorises Ukrainians to force them to leave, through indiscriminate attacks, and then deports many of those who remain when Russians occupy the territory, even the broadly Russia-aligned people who are left end up terrorised by the thugs Russia leaves in charge.

    It's basically an argument that people should lay down their arms and die for "peace".

    If someone like Ramzan Kadyrov running your country is the "peaceful" outcome then keep fighting.
    Is that so, I thought in Kherson region the Russians pay the pensions, provide the banking services and telecommunications network. Not exactly what the Israelis do to the Palestinians let alone what the Ukrainians do the Russian speakers.
    Oooh! New troll!
    Hired today, but goon tomorrow.
    TSE soon told him where he goat off.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,121
    RobD said:

    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    It's just PR. Ukrainian membership is years (decades) away.
    We can race them to it?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,633
    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    Two issues stand out:

    1) is the candidate country willing to meet the accession criteria? Turkey was very unwilling to do so, across a wide range of areas.

    2) is any country going to veto? Possible for any, but highly likely for Turkey, unless it has made major changes in its society.
    Exactly, it’s a momentum thing. Turkey was moving apart from the EU in most areas. Ukraine is converging with the EU. It may be a way off, but so once were Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,749

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Benpointer have you considered Slough ?

    Very good!
    You missed an opportunity for an awesome pun there. You should have said 'you betcher, man!'
    Blast! I'm in the ______ of despond now!
    Go, friendly Ben, and fall on Slough.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,315
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    It's just PR. Ukrainian membership is years (decades) away.
    We can race them to it?
    Similar timeframe, I expect. UK more likely to be vetoed at the final hurdle. ;)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,605
    edited June 23
    glw said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It's not really meant to make sense, at least half the point is simply to get people arguing and by trying to rationalise the irrational involuntarily start constructing a "sensible" argument for Russia's genocidal war. Why they are bothering to do that here of all places is more interesting than the clumsy tactics.
    They may be obvious to us that they are Russian trolls, but by posting them the Russians can portray the comments as an example of British opinion

    Pro-Kremlin trolls target news website comments, researchers say
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58441662

    "Sometimes those posting were accused by others on the site of being Russian trolls but in most cases they did not respond.

    These comments were then picked up by Russian media organisations who took the original news story and used the comments to construct a Russian language news story with a particular slant suggesting "The British think X or Y".

    These were published to suggest extensive support among Western citizens for Russia or President Vladimir Putin or for a particular policy.

    These would be published in Russia, but also other European countries, particularly Bulgaria. These would then be further amplified on social media platforms, including Telegram."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    The EU/Turkey accession conference, less than a week before the UK/EU referendum, couldn’t have been timed worse if they’re tried.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Benpointer have you considered Slough ?

    Very good!
    You missed an opportunity for an awesome pun there. You should have said 'you betcher, man!'
    Blast! I'm in the ______ of despond now!
    Go, friendly Ben, and fall on Slough.
    Have you considered purchasing one of the smaller & more attractive "abandoned islands" and having it towed to, say, the Isle of Dogs?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    So you're in agreement with Nick Baines, who seems to think much the same thing, but has noted other people do not?

    No I don't think I am unless I have completely misunderstood him, as I do not believe that surrendering territory to Russia is peace for the reasons I have already given. The people advocating surrendering territory have bought into a Russian narrative (of bringing peace and prosperity to "Russian" people) that is simply false.
    You would appear to have done so, as he has already said he does not want to do that or in his own words 'Ukrainian integrity is unequivocal. Debate is not a statement of church’s mind.'

    What he is doing is noting that there are others who do not agree with him or you while tabling a motion.

    What the Telegraph has done is again look like idiots by quoting him out of context. But unfortunately apart from Matt's cartoons that's the only thing they're good at these days.
    Okay, fair enough I will accept what you say. It's the Telegraph I should be angry with.
    Always good advice in life these days, sadly. Like the Daily Mail but with worse spelling.

    It's always been a bit dodgy on matters to do with the Church of England because of its unusually high proportion of especially strident Catholics, particularly nuttier ones like Damian Thompson (who was a big admirer of the disastrous Ordinariate). I remember, for example, a massive headline claiming Rowan Williams had said he 'doubted the existence of God' which was absolutely not what he had said (he had actually said 'no reasonable Christian could fail to consider and understand the views of those who reject the existence of God after the Boxing Day tsunami').

    Frankly I think Baines can sometimes be rather unwise in his choice of words, but at the same time the Telegraph blaming him for pointing out there are many - including some very pro-Ukrainian posters on this board - who think Ukraine probably will be unable to recapture all its territory in a peace settlement, and others who think it should stop fighting at once, is a bit off. It is a fact that people do have those views, and not just our brief guest Nocock, whether we like it or not.

    The sad thing about the Telegraph is their unbalanced stridency on the CofE and indeed Israel/Palestine has now infected every part of their output and made them pretty much worthless as a paper. And it used to be good.
    So the DT is Tractarian? My goodness me.That does seem. a bit dodgy when, we are told, the C of E is a bulwark against you know what.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,388
    edited June 23
    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    The problem for Cameron was he was being two faced re Turkey . He was playing good cop when he always knew that some EU countries need referenda to allow Turkey to join, notwithstanding the likely vetos from several Eastern Europe countries . No chance that Turkey would ever join . Originally Erdogan was happy to play this game as it suited his interests at the time and appealed to a decent chunk of Turkish voters . Ukraine would have a much better chance of joining the EU than Turkey as it’s a Christian country .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,411
    Endillion said:

    Foxy said:

    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    Two issues stand out:

    1) is the candidate country willing to meet the accession criteria? Turkey was very unwilling to do so, across a wide range of areas.

    2) is any country going to veto? Possible for any, but highly likely for Turkey, unless it has made major changes in its society.
    See, the thing everything forgets about this, is that in 2016, right before the referendum, there was a massive EU refugee crisis, which Turkey was seen as absolutely key to solving. The fear was that the EU would fudge Turkey's accession in exchange for co-operating on the Syrian refugee front, forcing countries to withdraw objections via the usual horse trading (ie, bribery and threats).

    It didn't happen. But it sure as hell looked plausible for a while.

    I imagine that Ukraine won't accede for a while (if ever), as their economy is in pieces and will probably remain so for years. Today's events are the EU maximising rhetoric in a way that costs nothing, since Ukraine has nothing the EU wants.
    Apart from the economic, agricultural and rule of law issues, there is a significant problem of territorial integrity and borders for Ukraine joining, and to a lesser extent Moldova. Full membership is some time away for Ukraine, but accession status gives access to transition funding and advice.

    It is also something desired by a significant majority of Ukranians, and a very important statement of solidarity with that suffering nation.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,159
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    Room for six scotches more (Ant & C) confirms
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    BUT would one have time enough to explain this to an enraged and quite possibly "tired & emotional" Caledonian bent upon taking umbrage and wreaking revenge?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    So you're in agreement with Nick Baines, who seems to think much the same thing, but has noted other people do not?

    No I don't think I am unless I have completely misunderstood him, as I do not believe that surrendering territory to Russia is peace for the reasons I have already given. The people advocating surrendering territory have bought into a Russian narrative (of bringing peace and prosperity to "Russian" people) that is simply false.
    You would appear to have done so, as he has already said he does not want to do that or in his own words 'Ukrainian integrity is unequivocal. Debate is not a statement of church’s mind.'

    What he is doing is noting that there are others who do not agree with him or you while tabling a motion.

    What the Telegraph has done is again look like idiots by quoting him out of context. But unfortunately apart from Matt's cartoons that's the only thing they're good at these days.
    Okay, fair enough I will accept what you say. It's the Telegraph I should be angry with.
    Always good advice in life these days, sadly. Like the Daily Mail but with worse spelling.

    It's always been a bit dodgy on matters to do with the Church of England because of its unusually high proportion of especially strident Catholics, particularly nuttier ones like Damian Thompson (who was a big admirer of the disastrous Ordinariate). I remember, for example, a massive headline claiming Rowan Williams had said he 'doubted the existence of God' which was absolutely not what he had said (he had actually said 'no reasonable Christian could fail to consider and understand the views of those who reject the existence of God after the Boxing Day tsunami').

    Frankly I think Baines can sometimes be rather unwise in his choice of words, but at the same time the Telegraph blaming him for pointing out there are many - including some very pro-Ukrainian posters on this board - who think Ukraine probably will be unable to recapture all its territory in a peace settlement, and others who think it should stop fighting at once, is a bit off. It is a fact that people do have those views, and not just our brief guest Nocock, whether we like it or not.

    The sad thing about the Telegraph is their unbalanced stridency on the CofE and indeed Israel/Palestine has now infected every part of their output and made them pretty much worthless as a paper. And it used to be good.
    So the DT is Tractarian? My goodness me.That does seem. a bit dodgy when, we are told, the C of E is a bulwark against you know what.
    First and foremost, it's rubbish.

    But then think of its theology as Moggsian and you won't go too far wrong.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,351
    ydoethur said:

    @laurnorman
    Macron has just said at the press conference right after Ukraine given candidate status that 1) NATO has said no to Ukraine. and that 2) over time, opening EU accession process to Ukraine is not the right geopolitical response. These are both highly problematic.

    To put in context, his argument was that his political community structure is the right geopolitical response. OK, leaders will discuss that tonight. But that is NOT the NATO position. And it seems extraordinary to diss Ukraine's EU accession prospects minutes after agreeing it.


    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1540049429813665794

    You know, these Western democracies really need to up their game a bit. In the last three years, three of their largest and oldest democracies have put forward as choices to the electorate Biden and Trump, Johnson and Corbyn, and Macron and Le Pen.

    No wonder people are drifting away.
    No, it’s quite logical.

    The French see an alliance forming between a large chunk of Eastern Europe and Ukraine. If Ukraine joins the EU it will only deepen. Together, the resources and people of those states have vast potential.

    If you bring them up to Western European levels of wealth, they would move the centre of the EU away from France.

    Why would Macron want that?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,777
    Blimey, history missed a trick. If somehow Mick Lynch had ended up leading Labour instead of Corbyn five years ago things could have been very different.

    Same manifesto, but articulated.



  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,147
    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It's not really meant to make sense, at least half the point is simply to get people arguing and by trying to rationalise the irrational involuntarily start constructing a "sensible" argument for Russia's genocidal war. Why they are bothering to do that here of all places is more interesting than the clumsy tactics.
    They may be obvious to us that they are Russian trolls, but by posting them the Russians can portray the comments as an example of British opinion

    Pro-Kremlin trolls target news website comments, researchers say
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58441662

    "Sometimes those posting were accused by others on the site of being Russian trolls but in most cases they did not respond.

    These comments were then picked up by Russian media organisations who took the original news story and used the comments to construct a Russian language news story with a particular slant suggesting "The British think X or Y".

    These were published to suggest extensive support among Western citizens for Russia or President Vladimir Putin or for a particular policy.

    These would be published in Russia, but also other European countries, particularly Bulgaria. These would then be further amplified on social media platforms, including Telegram."
    Why bother? Why not just make it up and say "The British think we're the best thing since sliced bread."? I mean, its not like anyone in Russia is actually going to check these things (or be allowed to check them).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,450
    Andy_JS said:

    For those thinking a Labour Majority or even Government is a dead set now.

    Just remember June 2019 the Tories were poling in 4th place with 17% in multiple polls.

    Bojo went on to win 43% and largest tory majority for 32 years just 6 months later. A change of leadership can change everything.

    Not saying it will change everything....but the possibility is there.

    Not a great example IMO because that score was affected by the Euro election.
    There was also a massive chunk of BXP voters the Conservatives could appeal to by implementing Brexit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,351
    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Please Sir, can we keep a Russian Troll as a pet, Sir?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797

    ydoethur said:

    @laurnorman
    Macron has just said at the press conference right after Ukraine given candidate status that 1) NATO has said no to Ukraine. and that 2) over time, opening EU accession process to Ukraine is not the right geopolitical response. These are both highly problematic.

    To put in context, his argument was that his political community structure is the right geopolitical response. OK, leaders will discuss that tonight. But that is NOT the NATO position. And it seems extraordinary to diss Ukraine's EU accession prospects minutes after agreeing it.


    https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1540049429813665794

    You know, these Western democracies really need to up their game a bit. In the last three years, three of their largest and oldest democracies have put forward as choices to the electorate Biden and Trump, Johnson and Corbyn, and Macron and Le Pen.

    No wonder people are drifting away.
    No, it’s quite logical.

    The French see an alliance forming between a large chunk of Eastern Europe and Ukraine. If Ukraine joins the EU it will only deepen. Together, the resources and people of those states have vast potential.

    If you bring them up to Western European levels of wealth, they would move the centre of the EU away from France.

    Why would Macron want that?
    I'm not talking about his policies. But somebody else mentioning them allowed me to randomly remind people he's a lightweight useless shit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,121

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Please Sir, can we keep a Russian Troll as a pet, Sir?
    The position of site pet is already taken by ST.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    edited June 23

    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It's not really meant to make sense, at least half the point is simply to get people arguing and by trying to rationalise the irrational involuntarily start constructing a "sensible" argument for Russia's genocidal war. Why they are bothering to do that here of all places is more interesting than the clumsy tactics.
    They may be obvious to us that they are Russian trolls, but by posting them the Russians can portray the comments as an example of British opinion

    Pro-Kremlin trolls target news website comments, researchers say
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58441662

    "Sometimes those posting were accused by others on the site of being Russian trolls but in most cases they did not respond.

    These comments were then picked up by Russian media organisations who took the original news story and used the comments to construct a Russian language news story with a particular slant suggesting "The British think X or Y".

    These were published to suggest extensive support among Western citizens for Russia or President Vladimir Putin or for a particular policy.

    These would be published in Russia, but also other European countries, particularly Bulgaria. These would then be further amplified on social media platforms, including Telegram."
    Why bother? Why not just make it up and say "The British think we're the best thing since sliced bread."? I mean, its not like anyone in Russia is actually going to check these things (or be allowed to check them).
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    So you're in agreement with Nick Baines, who seems to think much the same thing, but has noted other people do not?

    No I don't think I am unless I have completely misunderstood him, as I do not believe that surrendering territory to Russia is peace for the reasons I have already given. The people advocating surrendering territory have bought into a Russian narrative (of bringing peace and prosperity to "Russian" people) that is simply false.
    You would appear to have done so, as he has already said he does not want to do that or in his own words 'Ukrainian integrity is unequivocal. Debate is not a statement of church’s mind.'

    What he is doing is noting that there are others who do not agree with him or you while tabling a motion.

    What the Telegraph has done is again look like idiots by quoting him out of context. But unfortunately apart from Matt's cartoons that's the only thing they're good at these days.
    Okay, fair enough I will accept what you say. It's the Telegraph I should be angry with.
    Always good advice in life these days, sadly. Like the Daily Mail but with worse spelling.

    It's always been a bit dodgy on matters to do with the Church of England because of its unusually high proportion of especially strident Catholics, particularly nuttier ones like Damian Thompson (who was a big admirer of the disastrous Ordinariate). I remember, for example, a massive headline claiming Rowan Williams had said he 'doubted the existence of God' which was absolutely not what he had said (he had actually said 'no reasonable Christian could fail to consider and understand the views of those who reject the existence of God after the Boxing Day tsunami').

    Frankly I think Baines can sometimes be rather unwise in his choice of words, but at the same time the Telegraph blaming him for pointing out there are many - including some very pro-Ukrainian posters on this board - who think Ukraine probably will be unable to recapture all its territory in a peace settlement, and others who think it should stop fighting at once, is a bit off. It is a fact that people do have those views, and not just our brief guest Nocock, whether we like it or not.

    The sad thing about the Telegraph is their unbalanced stridency on the CofE and indeed Israel/Palestine has now infected every part of their output and made them pretty much worthless as a paper. And it used to be good.
    So the DT is Tractarian? My goodness me.That does seem. a bit dodgy when, we are told, the C of E is a bulwark against you know what.
    First and foremost, it's rubbish.

    But then think of its theology as Moggsian and you won't go too far wrong.
    Reformed Cargo Cult - with Boris as Big Dog God
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,351
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Benpointer have you considered Slough ?

    Very good!
    You missed an opportunity for an awesome pun there. You should have said 'you betcher, man!'
    Blast! I'm in the ______ of despond now!
    I hope guilt has not Eton you alive, otherwise Ishmael and I will feel like Berks.
    Ah, Sluff…

    I Betjeman that we could use our new Russian friend to get Putin to Betjeman the place in the style of Mariupol….

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    BUT would one have time enough to explain this to an enraged and quite possibly "tired & emotional" Caledonian bent upon taking umbrage and wreaking revenge?
    Well, I've been working through my late dad's single malts and I'm entirely relaxed (unsuprisingly). But it can be misunderstood, I suppose.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    It doesn’t make sense. Lammy hates it, as you can see from his words. “We have to come to terms with it, psychologically”

    If Labour ever gain power they will buckle and give in to their instincts. Single Market. Otherwise what is power for?

    Should I be proved wrong about this, I will eat five frogs legs, and I LOATHE frogs legs


    Do the Frogs still eat frog ‘slegs?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50
    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797
    Speaking of Macron - and this is a tenuous link, but hey - some of you may remember that in August 2020 as we inched out of Lockdown 1 there was a catastrophic explosion in Beirut caused by a warehouse full of fertiliser catching fire.

    Two years on, the situation is getting considerably worse rather than better.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/factbox-just-how-bad-is-lebanons-economic-meltdown-2022-06-23/

    We could be looking at a complete collapse of Lebanon, which would be very bad news for all the states around it.

    But hey, at least Syria, Israel and so on are so stable and well governed they can deal with...ah.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,334

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Don't wait up.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,334

    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It's not really meant to make sense, at least half the point is simply to get people arguing and by trying to rationalise the irrational involuntarily start constructing a "sensible" argument for Russia's genocidal war. Why they are bothering to do that here of all places is more interesting than the clumsy tactics.
    They may be obvious to us that they are Russian trolls, but by posting them the Russians can portray the comments as an example of British opinion

    Pro-Kremlin trolls target news website comments, researchers say
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58441662

    "Sometimes those posting were accused by others on the site of being Russian trolls but in most cases they did not respond.

    These comments were then picked up by Russian media organisations who took the original news story and used the comments to construct a Russian language news story with a particular slant suggesting "The British think X or Y".

    These were published to suggest extensive support among Western citizens for Russia or President Vladimir Putin or for a particular policy.

    These would be published in Russia, but also other European countries, particularly Bulgaria. These would then be further amplified on social media platforms, including Telegram."
    Why bother? Why not just make it up and say "The British think we're the best thing since sliced bread."? I mean, its not like anyone in Russia is actually going to check these things (or be allowed to check them).
    Why bother? Sanctions are biting. Jobs are hard to come by. Sign up and annoy the foreigners, whilst keeping the wolf from the door. And the secret police.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,374
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,777
    ydoethur said:

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
    S Times will be full of details of the plot to have another go at Johnson.

    And then...

    Nothing will happen. Recess will come and we all reset in September.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    Labour campaigners in Wakefield confident of victory. One reckoned the party's on course for a result similar to '17 when Lab had 2k majority(Tories won w/ 3k in '19), depending on how indys do

    But others say that's pessimistic & estimate 4k (NB: on smaller, by-election turnout)

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540072145799241730
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    Angela Rayner demands that Simon Case explain himself over Carrie Johnson jobs row

    Labour deputy leader writes to the Cabinet Secretary over claims the Prime Minister’s wife says are ‘totally untrue’

    Thread 🧵⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/23/angela-rayner-demands-simon-case-explain-carrie-johnson-jobs/

    In a separate letter to Lord Evans, the chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, Ms Rayner called for officials who were allegedly involved in the attempt to secure Mrs Johnson a job to give public evidence.

    Read @Tony_Diver's piece⬇️
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/23/angela-rayner-demands-simon-case-explain-carrie-johnson-jobs/
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    BUT would one have time enough to explain this to an enraged and quite possibly "tired & emotional" Caledonian bent upon taking umbrage and wreaking revenge?
    Well, I've been working through my late dad's single malts and I'm entirely relaxed (unsuprisingly). But it can be misunderstood, I suppose.
    In just one sitting? You must have a hollow leg! OR have built up your tolerance (in one sense anyway)?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50

    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It's not really meant to make sense, at least half the point is simply to get people arguing and by trying to rationalise the irrational involuntarily start constructing a "sensible" argument for Russia's genocidal war. Why they are bothering to do that here of all places is more interesting than the clumsy tactics.
    They may be obvious to us that they are Russian trolls, but by posting them the Russians can portray the comments as an example of British opinion

    Pro-Kremlin trolls target news website comments, researchers say
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58441662

    "Sometimes those posting were accused by others on the site of being Russian trolls but in most cases they did not respond.

    These comments were then picked up by Russian media organisations who took the original news story and used the comments to construct a Russian language news story with a particular slant suggesting "The British think X or Y".

    These were published to suggest extensive support among Western citizens for Russia or President Vladimir Putin or for a particular policy.

    These would be published in Russia, but also other European countries, particularly Bulgaria. These would then be further amplified on social media platforms, including Telegram."
    Why bother? Why not just make it up and say "The British think we're the best thing since sliced bread."? I mean, its not like anyone in Russia is actually going to check these things (or be allowed to check them).
    To quote Gorbachev "Our power comes from the perception of our power"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,749
    8 years, 7 months, and 10 days — and revolution, war and massive bloodshed, I would add — after Mustafa published his call on Facebook for Ukrainians to come to Maidan and protest Yanukovych's decision to abandon a deal with the EU, Ukraine has been granted EU candidate status.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1540059386508414979
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046
    edited June 23

    ydoethur said:

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
    S Times will be full of details of the plot to have another go at Johnson.

    And then...

    Nothing will happen. Recess will come and we all reset in September.
    They will draw a line and move on, delivering the real priorities of the general public. Getting the big calls right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    BUT would one have time enough to explain this to an enraged and quite possibly "tired & emotional" Caledonian bent upon taking umbrage and wreaking revenge?
    Well, I've been working through my late dad's single malts and I'm entirely relaxed (unsuprisingly). But it can be misunderstood, I suppose.
    In just one sitting? You must have a hollow leg! OR have built up your tolerance (in one sense anyway)?
    No, just a couple of drams this evening!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    UPDATE:

    Simon Case has replied to Rayner, confirming a former member of the No10 team asked him about "opportunities for Mrs Johnson with environmental charities."

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1540073068642566145
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,515

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    No, I think its right to pull the plug on all the Vlad sock puppets. Last time it was pro-rape. This time it jumped straight into antisemitism. This isn't about saying things we disagree with - as @sandpit rightly says we all (mostly) manage to disagree agreeably. And the forum is better for it - and is still reduced by some of the more notable departures like @Charles and @AlastairMeeks and the reduction to lurking of @david_herdson

    So we need to keep this an acceptable place. And that means ban hammer quickly for the most outrageous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Can't fault your description of Gloucester, but you do live in London...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,475
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    I can recommend Gloucester from personal experience.

    I cannot recommend Cheltenham however. (Apart from the racecourse....of course.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Topsham's quite far out from Exeter, and it is rather nice from what I saw of it. And Gloucester is no worse than London for concrete and red brick and multis - both lack the coherence of Wick, for instance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of Macron - and this is a tenuous link, but hey - some of you may remember that in August 2020 as we inched out of Lockdown 1 there was a catastrophic explosion in Beirut caused by a warehouse full of fertiliser catching fire.

    Two years on, the situation is getting considerably worse rather than better.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/factbox-just-how-bad-is-lebanons-economic-meltdown-2022-06-23/

    We could be looking at a complete collapse of Lebanon, which would be very bad news for all the states around it.

    But hey, at least Syria, Israel and so on are so stable and well governed they can deal with...ah.

    My god that’s terrible

    How many countries are simply collapsing?

    Lebanon. Sri Lanka. Ukraine. The United States*

    *that’s a joke. But only half a joke



  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
    S Times will be full of details of the plot to have another go at Johnson.

    And then...

    Nothing will happen. Recess will come and we all reset in September.
    They will draw a line and move on, delivering the real priorities of the general public. Getting the big calls right.
    A high wage economy. By restricting pay rises.
    A low tax economy. By putting them up.
    Making Brexit work. By, err.
    Etc., etc., etc..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Talking of which


    “Sri Lanka’s prime minister says economy has ‘completely collapsed’”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/23/sri-lanka-prime-minister-economy-completely-collapsed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,797
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of Macron - and this is a tenuous link, but hey - some of you may remember that in August 2020 as we inched out of Lockdown 1 there was a catastrophic explosion in Beirut caused by a warehouse full of fertiliser catching fire.

    Two years on, the situation is getting considerably worse rather than better.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/factbox-just-how-bad-is-lebanons-economic-meltdown-2022-06-23/

    We could be looking at a complete collapse of Lebanon, which would be very bad news for all the states around it.

    But hey, at least Syria, Israel and so on are so stable and well governed they can deal with...ah.

    My god that’s terrible

    How many countries are simply collapsing?

    Lebanon. Sri Lanka. Ukraine. The United States*

    *that’s a joke. But only half a joke
    Bread prices led to the French and Russian Revolutions. Inflation killed Guomindang China and destroyed the government of Henry VI.

    It could be a very, very difficult year all around. Bear in mind, we still haven't fully resolved the impact of the GFC and we're still dealing with Covid's impact in several countries.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,374
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Well:
    I like towns over villages.
    While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate.
    I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons.
    Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham.
    I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,777
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
    S Times will be full of details of the plot to have another go at Johnson.

    And then...

    Nothing will happen. Recess will come and we all reset in September.
    They will draw a line and move on, delivering the real priorities of the general public. Getting the big calls right.
    Andrew Marr in this weekend's New Statesman saying that Johnson will use the strikes as a reboot. Labour's strikes etc etc. I totally agree.

    A ton of shit is coming Starmer's way and I fear he is just nowhere near a politician enough to deal with it.

    Starmer needs to say "Tory Inflation" every day until his own ears bleed before he is painted into a corner.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't get why Russia is so bothered about trying to persuade us of their innocence by coming here to talk up the special military operation and how raping girls gets rid of Ukrainian nazis and how attacking the Joos - because like Zelinsky they are nazis apparently - makes us all go "ah right yeah" and support Putin.

    How stupid are these attack bots?

    It’s rather amusing to watch them come into a site of generally intelligent people in a small community. They don’t realise they stand out like a sore thumb, and that those who wildly disagree on domestic UK policy (you and I, for example) are united in their wish for the war to be won by the Ukranians.

    I think 10 minutes must be a record though, the last guy (JohnSmith) lasted an hour and we thought that was quick.
    Worth adding that Mad Vlad's Bot Army is absurdly obvious AND very easily distinguished from PBers who do NOT share the general consensus here on the war, or more precisely the proper response to the conflict by NATO, UK and US.

    Also think that unplugging the latest bot was trifle premature. But ONLY in sense that it would have had some entertainment value for at least an hour?

    BTW, was going to say "scotching the bot" but am fearful that is too close to hate speech? As old phase "welshing on a bet" clearly already is, at least for yours truly.
    Nah, 'scotch' is apparently cognate with 'scratch' when it comes to wedging wheels or poking sticks into spokes.
    BUT would one have time enough to explain this to an enraged and quite possibly "tired & emotional" Caledonian bent upon taking umbrage and wreaking revenge?
    Well, I've been working through my late dad's single malts and I'm entirely relaxed (unsuprisingly). But it can be misunderstood, I suppose.
    In just one sitting? You must have a hollow leg! OR have built up your tolerance (in one sense anyway)?
    No, just a couple of drams this evening!
    Perfect accompaniment to a brace of Great British by-elections
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    I don't think Topsham residents will be very happy to be described as a suburb of Exeter. There's quite the divide. But then they can be a snooty lot, which is why I wouldn't want to live there. Instead I'd go for Lympstone. Lovely village.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50
    Scott_xP said:

    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755

    Expectation management?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Well:
    I like towns over villages.
    While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate.
    I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons.
    Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham.
    I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
    Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border

    Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…

    Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc

    Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,777
    Leon said:

    Talking of which


    “Sri Lanka’s prime minister says economy has ‘completely collapsed’”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/23/sri-lanka-prime-minister-economy-completely-collapsed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    You got out just in time.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,147
    Time for a change of profile pic I think.

    Going all modern with the times.........
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter ... rather dreary.
    Ridiculous comment.

    Exeter is a fab vibrant city with a whole mixture of architectures and a lively scene.

    I get really tired of you pontificating about stuff you really don't know.
  • Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Exeter is a nicer city to live in than to visit, if you see what I mean.

    Has it got knockout attractions for the tourist? Underrated cathedral aside, and that's not exactly a full day out, no.

    But it's pleasant, has a decent amount going on, and is close to a lot of attractive countryside and seaside.

    The centre has also been significantly improved through more recent redevelopment after a very poor post-war period as you say. Worth a holiday? No. Worth a house hunt? Yes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of Macron - and this is a tenuous link, but hey - some of you may remember that in August 2020 as we inched out of Lockdown 1 there was a catastrophic explosion in Beirut caused by a warehouse full of fertiliser catching fire.

    Two years on, the situation is getting considerably worse rather than better.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/factbox-just-how-bad-is-lebanons-economic-meltdown-2022-06-23/

    We could be looking at a complete collapse of Lebanon, which would be very bad news for all the states around it.

    But hey, at least Syria, Israel and so on are so stable and well governed they can deal with...ah.

    My god that’s terrible

    How many countries are simply collapsing?

    Lebanon. Sri Lanka. Ukraine. The United States*

    *that’s a joke. But only half a joke
    Bread prices led to the French and Russian Revolutions. Inflation killed Guomindang China and destroyed the government of Henry VI.

    It could be a very, very difficult year all around. Bear in mind, we still haven't fully resolved the impact of the GFC and we're still dealing with Covid's impact in several countries.
    Yes. This is a fearful time for Homo Sapiens

    The worst since World War 2, for sure

    We have plague and war, and now famine stalks the planet. Not good
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter ... rather dreary.
    Ridiculous comment.

    Exeter is a fab vibrant city with a whole mixture of architectures and a lively scene.

    I get really tired of you pontificating about stuff you really don't know.
    Fuck off. I know Exeter extremely well. I’ve spent (unfortunately) a lot of time there

    My stepmother died there in a hospice. I used to visit her daily. I hope you now feel like a stupid guilty twat
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,374
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter ... rather dreary.
    Ridiculous comment.

    Exeter is a fab vibrant city with a whole mixture of architectures and a lively scene.

    I get really tired of you pontificating about stuff you really don't know.
    But you have just dismissed the entire population of Topsham as rather snooty!
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,792
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Talking of which


    “Sri Lanka’s prime minister says economy has ‘completely collapsed’”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/23/sri-lanka-prime-minister-economy-completely-collapsed?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    All so predictable. The corrupt war criminal clan that ran the country aka the Rajapaksas were always going to drive that country to the edge of collapse

    This was all known back in 2005 and then in 2009 during the extensive war crimes.
  • Labour campaigners in Wakefield confident of victory. One reckoned the party's on course for a result similar to '17 when Lab had 2k majority(Tories won w/ 3k in '19), depending on how indys do

    But others say that's pessimistic & estimate 4k (NB: on smaller, by-election turnout)
  • The Lib Dems seem a *little* bit wobbly about Tiverton & Honiton. Activists had 20k (!) conversations with voters today, one source says. "Neck & neck."

    But they reckon lots of Labour voters switching. LDs expecting very significant swing but they don't know if enough to win
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,987
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    Lichfield is amazing and not that far north of your line, but it is north of Birmingham.

    If you were willing to stretch your definition of 'England' a bit then Caldicot in Monmouthshire might be worth a look.
    I particularly like the Teme Valley in Worcestershire. Tenbury Wells or Bewdley would be probably be the towns of choice, although villages of Great Whitley, Abberley, Pensax. Knightwick and Shelsley Walsh are lovely. I lived just on the edge of that area in Cradley, Malvern when I went to school in Ledbury.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046
    Nights are drawing in.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,101
    I am ready, man! Ready to GET IT ON!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Exeter is a nicer city to live in than to visit, if you see what I mean.

    Has it got knockout attractions for the tourist? Underrated cathedral aside, and that's not exactly a full day out, no.

    But it's pleasant, has a decent amount going on, and is close to a lot of attractive countryside and seaside.

    The centre has also been significantly improved through more recent redevelopment after a very poor post-war period as you say. Worth a holiday? No. Worth a house hunt? Yes.
    Even this is not exactly on the money. There's loads to do in Exeter.

    The Quayside is stunning and THE place to go nowadays. Very trendy and vibey places. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/faces-exeter-quay-meet-characters-5720090

    The underground passages / catacombs are also well worth visiting and, yes, the cathedral. Roman walls of course, too.

    Princeshay shopping centre and John Lewis have all added a touch of class.

    Stroll out down the river and back along the canal. Gorgeous and glorious.

    Masses of places to eat. For a top burger, Harry's.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    Friday’s INDEPENDENT Digital: “Mass disruption feared in summer airport strike” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1540077056842760195/photo/1
  • 💥POLLS HAVE CLOSED

    Coming from Kigali in 10pm news

    - Wakefield. Lab sources say “feeling good” hope for solid win
    - Tiverton. LD sources say the swing is big, but can’t call it. Told “going to the wire” & LDs spoke to 20k voters today
    - Tories on Tiverton: “bad on the doors”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,258
    💥POLLS HAVE CLOSED

    Coming from Kigali in 10pm news

    - Wakefield. Lab sources say “feeling good” hope for solid win
    - Tiverton. LD sources say the swing is big, but can’t call it. Told “going to the wire” & LDs spoke to 20k voters today
    - Tories on Tiverton: “bad on the doors”

    - https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1540077325764759552
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,475

    Scott_xP said:

    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755

    Expectation management?
    Expectations have been 'managed' to the extent that if neither of their candidates gets lynched they will consider it a success.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter ... rather dreary.
    Ridiculous comment.

    Exeter is a fab vibrant city with a whole mixture of architectures and a lively scene.

    I get really tired of you pontificating about stuff you really don't know.
    But you have just dismissed the entire population of Topsham as rather snooty!
    Topsham isn't Exeter!!!!! It really, really, isn't.

    I've never ever before heard anyone suggest it is. I suspect you haven't heard of the Topsham Gap?
  • pingping Posts: 2,211
    edited June 23
    I’ve just had a reasonable-sized punt on the tories in T&H @ 4/1

    I suspect there’s too much read over from C&A & NS by activists and the media. LD’s will do well, but 1/4 on them winning it is too skimpy.

    Take the other side of the bet.

    But if you’re betting, do so quickly. In play trading during the count is a fools game for all but the most well connected, inside-the-count punters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,450
    Endillion said:

    Congratulations to Ukraine (and Moldova) on attaining EU candidate member status.

    However, I am confused. This candidate member status - described by President of the European Council Charles Michel as "a crucial step on your path towards the EU" seems to be the same one that Turkey has had for some years. However, during and after the referendum campaign, I was repeatedly informed on here (and other places) that there was no chance of Turkey joining the EU, ever, and claiming otherwise, was in some way bigoted. Which is it?

    Well both.

    You can't become a member without becoming a candidate member first.

    You also need to meet all the requirements (the aquis)

    And you need to get every member state to sign an accession treaty.

    Turkey was 'on the path'. But it also remained the case that it has made next to no progress on the aquis. And it remains the case that any member state could veto its accession.

    Indeed, Turkey knows that would get vetoed by (at the very least) Cyprus, so why go to all the trouble of meeting the aquis?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,374
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Well:
    I like towns over villages.
    While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate.
    I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons.
    Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham.
    I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
    Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border

    Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…

    Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc

    Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
    Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes.
    I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day.
    But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter ... rather dreary.
    Ridiculous comment.

    Exeter is a fab vibrant city with a whole mixture of architectures and a lively scene.

    I get really tired of you pontificating about stuff you really don't know.
    I know Exeter extremely well.

    My stepmother died there in a hospice. I
    I'm sorry to hear that but clearly not the right occasion for you to be enjoying such a wonderful city and it has obviously tainted your perspective.

    Exeter is a great place. Oh, to the other places I mentioned add St Leonards': lovely and plushy with a bit of trend. And Pennsylvania of course which is student central.

    The Home Counties set call it Surrey-next-the-sea, though it's nowhere near the sea.

    Oh and cycle down to the Turf (skip Double Locks which is nice enough). The Turf is an amazing pub, with no road access
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,605
    Scott_xP said:

    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755

    Yeah yeah






  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    Any last minute betting tips for the by-elections tonight?

    Bet on Johnson to be still there tomorrow evening.

    Also bet on several Tory MPs volunteering at TfL as bus drivers if the Tories lose Tiverton.
    S Times will be full of details of the plot to have another go at Johnson.

    And then...

    Nothing will happen. Recess will come and we all reset in September.
    They will draw a line and move on, delivering the real priorities of the general public. Getting the big calls right.
    Andrew Marr in this weekend's New Statesman saying that Johnson will use the strikes as a reboot. Labour's strikes etc etc. I totally agree.

    A ton of shit is coming Starmer's way and I fear he is just nowhere near a politician enough to deal with it.

    Starmer needs to say "Tory Inflation" every day until his own ears bleed before he is painted into a corner.

    Cannot agree.
    I simply don't see widespread industrial action across a vast range of professions as good for the government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,777
    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755

    Yeah yeah






    Tories drifting down to 4.5 on BF

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    We should have a rule on here that people should stop sounding knowledgeable when they're bullshitting.

    Trouble is, @Leon would have to stop posting.

    Night all.

    xx
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046

    Scott_xP said:

    The Conservatives are feeling very downbeat about both Wakefield & Tiverton and Honiton.
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1540074785711050755

    Expectation management?
    Expectations have been 'managed' to the extent that if neither of their candidates gets lynched they will consider it a success.
    Mick's on QT, so they're safe for now.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50
    ping said:

    I’ve just had a reasonable-sized punt on the tories in T&H @ 4/1

    How much?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,865
    What time are we expecting declarations?

    Presumably Wakefield will come in before T&H?
  • Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?

    It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.

    Any ideas?

    (*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)

    A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
    Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.

    Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
    The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
    Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
    If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham.
    If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester.
    Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
    Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice

    Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
    Exeter is a nicer city to live in than to visit, if you see what I mean.

    Has it got knockout attractions for the tourist? Underrated cathedral aside, and that's not exactly a full day out, no.

    But it's pleasant, has a decent amount going on, and is close to a lot of attractive countryside and seaside.

    The centre has also been significantly improved through more recent redevelopment after a very poor post-war period as you say. Worth a holiday? No. Worth a house hunt? Yes.
    Even this is not exactly on the money. There's loads to do in Exeter.

    The Quayside is stunning and THE place to go nowadays. Very trendy and vibey places. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/faces-exeter-quay-meet-characters-5720090

    The underground passages / catacombs are also well worth visiting and, yes, the cathedral. Roman walls of course, too.

    Princeshay shopping centre and John Lewis have all added a touch of class.

    Stroll out down the river and back along the canal. Gorgeous and glorious.

    Masses of places to eat. For a top burger, Harry's.
    I'm from Exeter, but am not going to tout it as a holiday destination. I'll defend it - it's one of England's nicer small cities for sure. But it's a relatively slow burner - spend two decades rather than two weeks, and you're laughing.
This discussion has been closed.