Regardless of what happens to Johnson I think much of the red wall is now lost
The thing is, the bond is broken now between Labour and large chunks of it's heartlands.
The "red wall" may swing back to Labour at the next election but future elections could easily see it going to Con again (Con may be in a similar situation with parts of the south and the Lib-Dems)
I think this century will see a lot more volatility as regions are no longer cemented to their old allegiances. It's going to be an interesting few decades...
Dreariness is entirely in the eye of the beholder, so there's absolutely no point in this silly argument.
Quite so
I probably put more value on aesthetics. @Heathener being a late middle aged woman, likely puts more value on moral worth or vibrancy, as aesthetics are no longer her calling card
Trashy post even by your standards
She’s spent the entire evening calling me a liar and a bullshitter and asking that I be banned
Now, you may agree. You probably do. You’re a halfwit. But if someone is going to be consistently rude I will eventually be catty in my replies
But you are a liar and a bullshitter, and you have been banned on multiple occasions.
*LIB DEMS* Upbeat on Tiverton. They talked to 20k people in seat today Source claims “very significant swing” from Tories (echoes what senior Tory source said) Also said anacdotally Labourites lent votes to Libs + Tory switchers still being swayed today Summary: ‘really tight’ 5/
Tactical voting = big problems for the Tories going forward
Loving all the suggestions for where to move to. I think maybe we might be doing a few trips away over the next 18 months to check some of these places out.
Thanks all!
Add Stamford, Lincs to your list. Mrs Foxys parents used to live there and it is a beautiful old town, but not too expensive. It used to be the halfway stop overnight for the London to York route so is full of Georgian coaching inns and pubs. Burleigh House and Park are great to visit too. The train connection to London via Peterborough is good, there is a fair bit going on, and some lovely countryside around in Rutland and rural Northants.
On the topic of our rapidly banned Russian troll novicock this evening, I see another user @uvcuringadhesive joined at 16:11 and was immediately banned without making a post - or even a visit.
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
Yep. Ditto Ludlow, Kington, Leominster, Ledbury and others
The Welsh Marches are the lost but preserved loveliness of England, and long may they remain so
They bring with them a pang, however. When you walk around a largely unspoiled town like Ledbury or Ross you realise that, once, all of England was like this
Well, up to a point.
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness. But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Dreariness is entirely in the eye of the beholder, so there's absolutely no point in this silly argument.
Quite so
I probably put more value on aesthetics. @Heathener being a late middle aged woman, likely puts more value on moral worth or vibrancy, as aesthetics are no longer her calling card
Trashy post even by your standards
She’s spent the entire evening calling me a liar and a bullshitter and asking that I be banned
Now, you may agree. You probably do. You’re a halfwit. But if someone is going to be consistently rude I will eventually be catty in my replies
She is a total button wanting everyone who does not agree with her crap to be banned. You are in good company leon.
On the topic of our rapidly banned Russian troll novicock this evening, I see another user @uvcuringadhesive joined at 16:11 and was immediately banned without making a post - or even a visit.
That's got to be some kind of record, shirley?
Probably posting spam links and got completely nuked, so you don't see any of their posts.
Loving all the suggestions for where to move to. I think maybe we might be doing a few trips away over the next 18 months to check some of these places out.
Thanks all!
Add Stamford, Lincs to your list. Mrs Foxys parents used to live there and it is a beautiful old town, but not too expensive. It used to be the halfway stop overnight for the London to York route so is full of Georgian coaching inns and pubs. Burleigh House and Park are great to visit too. The train connection to London via Peterborough is good, there is a fair bit going on, and some lovely countryside around in Rutland and rural Northants.
Yes, Stamford is lovely. While you're in that neck of the woods you should also add Ely to the list - an attractive city and a good quality of life without breaking the bank. As long as your demands don't include hills the East offers a lot.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
What's the world coming to when the Tories don't know how to successfully eviscerate their leader...
Well quite.
Back in the day the men in grey suits simply placed the political pearl handled revolver on the desk and the deed was done. Now Boris will have to be dragged kicking and screaming onto the scaffold and will likely be spouting utter bullsh*t well after his blond locks have settled in the guillotine basket.
Out of interest how's your mate Ex-Speaker Bercow holding up now he's been exposed as a bully, banned from Parliament and no broadcaster in the land seems to want to go near him with a ten foot barge pole?
The not so long and very short of it is that "The Berc" is utterly unrepentant ....
@Leon - you were looking for places to travel to earlier.
Why not go to Moldova or Romania or maybe even one of the Baltic states? You can sort out deliveries of fresh underpants and stuff. The food and wine is good. Interesting stuff to see, lots of history & you can take the temperature of states on the edge of a European war.
This suggestion is in no way connected to the fact that I am currently working and cannot travel, enjoy your travelogues and am also interested in learning more about these countries.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
What's the world coming to when the Tories don't know how to successfully eviscerate their leader...
I wonder if Boris's allies actually sent in a load on no-confidence letters to get the vote done early, knowing that if it came after the by-elections it would be curtains.
Do you think Boris is actually organized enough to... well... organize something like that?
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Percentage not raw numbers please. Also. Worst government ever? I can think of at least the previous four Tory-led ones as serious contenders.
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
Yep. Ditto Ludlow, Kington, Leominster, Ledbury and others
The Welsh Marches are the lost but preserved loveliness of England, and long may they remain so
They bring with them a pang, however. When you walk around a largely unspoiled town like Ledbury or Ross you realise that, once, all of England was like this
Well, up to a point.
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness. But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
Sure, but this was likewise true of Italy, Spain and France. Full of magnificently varied and architecturally glorious and historically fascinating small towns and cities, which were likewise sunk in poverty and grime, but unlike us THOSE countries did not have this weird self-hating socialistic postwar generation of town planners and architects who tore down everything they could in pursuit of a new vision of urban life, unfortunately ruining a million cityscapes in their lunacy
it really makes me weep. The UK probably had the most beautiful towns and cities on earth, alongside France and Italy. We fucked most of them up. All by ourselves, after a kick start by the Germans
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
What's the world coming to when the Tories don't know how to successfully eviscerate their leader...
Well quite.
Back in the day the men in grey suits simply placed the political pearl handled revolver on the desk and the deed was done. Now Boris will have to be dragged kicking and screaming onto the scaffold and will likely be spouting utter bullsh*t well after his blond locks have settled in the guillotine basket.
Out of interest how's your mate Ex-Speaker Bercow holding up now he's been exposed as a bully, banned from Parliament and no broadcaster in the land seems to want to go near him with a ten foot barge pole?
The not so long and very short of it is that "The Berc" is utterly unrepentant ....
Could see Tories tanking in polls further as recession now looks inevitable Could though see a Farage type offshoot develop
Yep that Lab 5 or 6 pt lead is looking set in cement. Only a fool would assume there's still much uncertainty and things could change before the general election.
I agree if neither leader is changed, and no black swans, Labour win by 4 or 5. I don’t agree Tories have to tank in polls just because economy is bad, they might not get blame for it, their action on it may be popular, promises of Tory tax cuts may win votes when people feel hard up.
Langbaurgh just got a mention on Newsnight. The constituency which is now known as Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland.
As the almanac of British politics put it, an illogical and unwieldy name to replace an unpronouncable one.
I rather liked Langbaurgh (pron. Langbarf, or near enough). One of those names which 95% of people couldn't place and for even the 5% who could place it almost all of them had no use of the word except for that very constituency. It felt as if it had been coined to describe a very specific area of the country.
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Regardless of what happens to Johnson I think much of the red wall is now lost
If the Tories only lose Wakefield by say 4,000 votes that won't necessarily be true.
I think support for union action in order to push up wages will only increase from here The Tories may try to keep mentioning the 70s but I don't think it will work this time The country is changing
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
Correct, but important to point out the Network Railcard is only valid to Exeter on the slower route to London Waterloo via Salisbury and Yeovil, not the fast service to Paddington.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
If they lose badly, perhaps there will be a cabinet revolt.
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
Yep. Ditto Ludlow, Kington, Leominster, Ledbury and others
The Welsh Marches are the lost but preserved loveliness of England, and long may they remain so
They bring with them a pang, however. When you walk around a largely unspoiled town like Ledbury or Ross you realise that, once, all of England was like this
Well, up to a point.
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness. But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
Sure, but this was likewise true of Italy, Spain and France. Full of magnificently varied and architecturally glorious and historically fascinating small towns and cities, which were likewise sunk in poverty and grime, but unlike us THOSE countries did not have this weird self-hating socialistic postwar generation of town planners and architects who tore down everything they could in pursuit of a new vision of urban life, unfortunately ruining a million cityscapes in their lunacy
it really makes me weep. The UK probably had the most beautiful towns and cities on earth, alongside France and Italy. We fucked most of them up. All by ourselves, after a kick start by the Germans
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
I haven't been to Shrewsbury since 1998. But liked it. As did my girlfriend at the time, sort of. She called it a 'less-bad version of Durham'. She was not given to great displays of unreserved enthusiasm.
LOL as an ex-Durham man (admittedly it was a bit rubbish in the 80s and 90s)
What I liked about Shrewsbury was that, although not a large town, it is still the largest town for miles around in most directions and so has everything you might need on a regular basis, all the main shops etc. It was historically important and has an unusually large historic core, which has mostly been left alone. All nestling in the bend of the Severn.
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
Yep. Ditto Ludlow, Kington, Leominster, Ledbury and others
The Welsh Marches are the lost but preserved loveliness of England, and long may they remain so
They bring with them a pang, however. When you walk around a largely unspoiled town like Ledbury or Ross you realise that, once, all of England was like this
Well, up to a point.
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness. But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
Sure, but this was likewise true of Italy, Spain and France. Full of magnificently varied and architecturally glorious and historically fascinating small towns and cities, which were likewise sunk in poverty and grime, but unlike us THOSE countries did not have this weird self-hating socialistic postwar generation of town planners and architects who tore down everything they could in pursuit of a new vision of urban life, unfortunately ruining a million cityscapes in their lunacy
it really makes me weep. The UK probably had the most beautiful towns and cities on earth, alongside France and Italy. We fucked most of them up. All by ourselves, after a kick start by the Germans
Yes - we didn't even get that big a kick start from the Germans, and others that did in many cases thought 'actually, we rather liked our towns - let's rebuild them as they were'. We are not totally unique. Rotterdam was reuilt 'daringly', and you can spot the malign influence of modernism in France. But we have been more hostile to our heritage than most.
On the topic of our rapidly banned Russian troll novicock this evening, I see another user @uvcuringadhesive joined at 16:11 and was immediately banned without making a post - or even a visit.
That's got to be some kind of record, shirley?
If they had been named 'AV curing adhesive' they'd have been welcomed with open arms.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
If they lose badly, perhaps there will be a cabinet revolt.
Ok here's a PB challenge. Mrs P and I are planning to move in the next few years. What's the best small town or large village to move to?
It needs to be in the south of England* (anywhere south of Worcester-Northampton-Norwich) for family reasons. Ideally it'll be somewhere with: lots going on, good transport connections, easy access to London or another major city, sensible property prices.
Any ideas?
(*Yes I know, there are lots of fantastic places to live outside the south of England, we have lived in some, but... family connections rule them out for us now.)
A pity it has to be in the south of England because there are so many great places slightly further north.
Where were you thinking of Andy? The Worcester-Northampton-Norwich line is not set in stone.
Thanks for the other good suggestions on the previous thread too!
The area around Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth is nice. Just as example.
Stoneleigh, Berkswell and Meriden are pleasant villages
If I had to live in the South - and I have a spreadsheet ranking this - my favoured place would be the Exeter suburb of Topsham. If that is too far west, I would go for Gloucester. Still too far west? Devizes, Wiltshire.
Exeter and Gloucester are both rather dreary. Both ruined by war/post war planners. Odd choice
Do you simply like red brick, cheap concrete and multi storey car parks?
Well: I like towns over villages. While I was disappointed with Exeter, I still - despite having never visited it - hanker slightly after Topsham. It looks lovely without being extortionate. I'd want to live somewhere close to some hills. Dartmoor, or the Brecon Beacons. Cost is a consideration. I'm sure the Chilterns are splendid, but you can afford a house for twice the size in Gloucester that you can in Amersham. I love Cornwall very much, of course, and thought Falmouth splendid - but it's a long, long way away from everywhere else.
Herefordshire is the place to go! Untouched by industry. Largely unruined by planners. Nice-ish southern English climate if a bit wet towards the Welsh border
Or Dorset. Or even bits of Wiltshire. Malmesbury…
Someone else mentioned Stroud and that’s a good bet. It has suddenly become this counter cultural hub, perhaps because it is full of early industrial buildings which are quite handsome and can be easily repurposed, plus it is surrounded by extremely pretty countryside, Laurie Lee in the Slad valley etc
Winchester is probably my favourite small southern English cathedral city. But it is not cheap
Stroud looks nice but also a bit too hippy for my tastes. I'm keen to like Hereford but despite passing through it two or three times have never really got an impression of the place. I must return and give it another go. The county, as you say, is certainly lovely. One of the happiest days of my life was a bike ride through the Herefordshire/Wales borderlands, the highlight of which was a cycle over the top of the Begwyns. Almost no-one has heard of the Begwyns, and yet they are one of the most stunningly beautiful little ranges of hills in the country. I had such a good day I repeated it exactly the following day. But I've always lived in towns, and I simply can't imagine how life would be in a village.
i grew up in Hereford and, for a long time, remembered it as a sleepy, dull, slightly grey place, with a bit of post war ruination (the New Bridge and by pass) and no sense of a future
I went back last year for a week and I was stunned by the transformation. BECAUSE it stayed sleepy for so long it has kept a mediaeval network of streets, surrounding its lovely bijou cathedral. And there are no huge developments, yet it is full of life and exciting restaurants and cafes and pubs, it’s gorgeous. And it’s far enough away from London to have a sense of itself. And of course -as you note - the embracing countryside is quite something
it reminds me of one of those small unspoiled French cities in the Lot or the Dordogne or the Vosges where you think - why can’t England be like this? And lo, it can
I agree with that, it was somewhere I have thought about moving to.
Not far away, Shrewsbury is the same - and possibly even less well known. If it had a Cathedral, everyone would go there, but it doesn't, so nobody does. Most people just whizz past on the A5 towards North Wales. They should stop - I went for the first time only last year and was pleasantly surprised. And it is surrounded by varied countryside.
Yep. Ditto Ludlow, Kington, Leominster, Ledbury and others
The Welsh Marches are the lost but preserved loveliness of England, and long may they remain so
They bring with them a pang, however. When you walk around a largely unspoiled town like Ledbury or Ross you realise that, once, all of England was like this
Well, up to a point.
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness. But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
Sure, but this was likewise true of Italy, Spain and France. Full of magnificently varied and architecturally glorious and historically fascinating small towns and cities, which were likewise sunk in poverty and grime, but unlike us THOSE countries did not have this weird self-hating socialistic postwar generation of town planners and architects who tore down everything they could in pursuit of a new vision of urban life, unfortunately ruining a million cityscapes in their lunacy
it really makes me weep. The UK probably had the most beautiful towns and cities on earth, alongside France and Italy. We fucked most of them up. All by ourselves, after a kick start by the Germans
France did. They've got some horrors.
France experienced nothing like our self-harm
There are a few horrors, but they are few
The French have a greater sense of “the patrimony” that-must-not-be-overthrown. Cf Macron’s response to statue toppling: Fuck off, it’s not happening here, and it didn’t
Rachel Maskell just made herself look like an absolute plonker there with that letter stunt. Does she really think she is going to get such weasel words past Mick Lynch?
Langbaurgh just got a mention on Newsnight. The constituency which is now known as Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland.
As the almanac of British politics put it, an illogical and unwieldy name to replace an unpronouncable one.
I rather liked Langbaurgh (pron. Langbarf, or near enough). One of those names which 95% of people couldn't place and for even the 5% who could place it almost all of them had no use of the word except for that very constituency. It felt as if it had been coined to describe a very specific area of the country.
It was a wapentake. Like Makerfield. Which was a hundred. I quite like these ancient names. They should be brought back. Not Westmorland and Furness. But Westmorland and Lonsdale. Going back further Elmet.
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Percentage not raw numbers please. Also. Worst government ever? I can think of at least the previous four Tory-led ones.
Why? Is that more helpful when you only have half the voters turning out, when one party’s voters sat on hands on mass mid term, and will vote again in the GE?
The vote comparisons tell us where we are not the % of this poll. Admit you are wrong again deano.
Looking at the votes on wiki this time, last time, time before (17) time before (15) time before (10) Labour need to clearly smash this one tonight, pile a big win on. a Labour seat captured by Tories before they turned into the most rubbish government ever, and Labour so far this parliament unconvincing in red wall - even in mid term - I refuse to let any PB Labourite hail and ramp just a mere win tonight.
Guns have killed more Americans than all the combined wars they’ve fought including their Civil War .
And yet still nothing changes . And with today’s SCOTUS decision effectively expanding gun rights there really comes a point when if you live in Europe you just have to give up on the country .
It's a democracy. They all have a vote. IMHO more of them should use it, but it isn't our call. How they run it is a matter for them.
No, a handful of SC justices have a vote. NY elected an administration which enacted gun control regulations which the court has just set aside.
The SC seems disproportionately powerful as an institution compared the the other branches. A handful of people who serve direct decades can pursue their political aims without much hindrance, so long as they are patient in waiting for a case to use as a pretext.
They don't have to be that patient. There are plenty enough people to cooperate with in the State legislatures who will pass legislation for the purpose of triggering a court challenge.
Expect numerous such cases regarding existing state gun control regulations.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/supreme-court-new-york-concealed-carry-law-gun-control-bruen.html … But Thomas did not stop there. In striking down New York’s restriction, the justice also established a new standard for evaluating gun control measures. First, he asked whether a law interferes with rights protected in “the plain text” of the Second Amendment—specifically, the right to self-defense (which is not actually in the amendment’s text). If so, Thomas explained, that law is presumptively unconstitutional. The government may only save it from invalidation if it can prove that the regulation “is consistent with this nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation.”
In other words, courts may no longer rely on empirical evidence in upholding gun control laws. They cannot, for instance, cite the heightened lethality of a particular weapon. Such data is now irrelevant. Rather, they can only ask whether there is some “historical analogue” from 1791 (when the Second Amendment was ratified) or 1868 (when the 14th Amendment was ratified, applying the Second Amendment to the states). One might assume that this analysis would only shield weapons that were in common use in 1791 or 1868. But Thomas clarified that “any modern instruments that facilitate armed self-defense” are also protected under the Constitution, even if they did not exist until recently.…
Rachel Maskell just made herself look like an absolute plonker there with that letter stunt. Does she really think she is going to get such weasel words past Mick Lynch?
Dreariness is entirely in the eye of the beholder, so there's absolutely no point in this silly argument.
Quite so
I probably put more value on aesthetics. @Heathener being a late middle aged woman, likely puts more value on moral worth or vibrancy, as aesthetics are no longer her calling card
Trashy post even by your standards
She’s spent the entire evening calling me a liar and a bullshitter and asking that I be banned
Now, you may agree. You probably do. You’re a halfwit. But if someone is going to be consistently rude I will eventually be catty in my replies
She is a total button wanting everyone who does not agree with her crap to be banned. You are in good company leon.
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
Correct, but important to point out the Network Railcard is only valid to Exeter on the slower route to London Waterloo via Salisbury and Yeovil, not the fast service to Paddington.
Do you have a reference for that? Can’t see anything on the website. I can see from Sunil’s map that the line leaves the area, but surely it’s only the endpoints that matter?
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Hodges making a pillock of himself saying the Tories have done really well on expectation management front but must hold Tiverton. They haven't Dan. Read the room, its not close
Dreariness is entirely in the eye of the beholder, so there's absolutely no point in this silly argument.
Quite so
I probably put more value on aesthetics. @Heathener being a late middle aged woman, likely puts more value on moral worth or vibrancy, as aesthetics are no longer her calling card
C'mon Leon. It's not that it's unchivalrous, it's that it looks like Heathener got under your skin.
Kundera's heroes were always above such leaden exchanges.
Labour unveils plans to seek limited changes to Brexit deal - David Lammy, the shadow foreign secretary, confirms party won’t seek to rejoin single market or EU bloc
EXCLUSIVE: I am told Keir Starmer will head to Wakefield if Labour wins
Even if they win by just 1 vote?
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Percentage not raw numbers please. Also. Worst government ever? I can think of at least the previous four Tory-led ones.
Why? Is that more helpful when you only have half the voters turning out, when one party’s voters sat on hands on mass mid term, and will vote again in the GE?
The vote comparisons tell us where we are not the % of this poll. Admit you are wrong again deano.
Looking at the votes on wiki this time, last time, time before (17) time before (15) time before (10) Labour need to clearly smash this one tonight, pile a big win on. a Labour seat captured by Tories before they turned into the most rubbish government ever, and Labour so far this parliament unconvincing in red wall - even in mid term - I refuse to let any PB Labourite hail and ramp just a mere win tonight.
By elections always have a smaller turn out. Always have. So raw numbers of majority aren't the key.
Rachel Maskell just made herself look like an absolute plonker there with that letter stunt. Does she really think she is going to get such weasel words past Mick Lynch?
Rachel Maskell just made herself look like an absolute plonker there with that letter stunt. Does she really think she is going to get such weasel words past Mick Lynch?
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
Correct, but important to point out the Network Railcard is only valid to Exeter on the slower route to London Waterloo via Salisbury and Yeovil, not the fast service to Paddington.
Do you have a reference for that? Can’t see anything on the website. I can see from Sunil’s map that the line leaves the area, but surely it’s only the endpoints that matter?
Unfortunately, looks like the railcard area ends at Bedwyn along the GWR Reading to Exeter route.
Hodges making a pillock of himself saying the Tories have done really well on expectation management front but must hold Tiverton. They haven't Dan. Read the room, its not close
Just for the record, I've posted 10 times all evening and only 2 were with regard to Leon.
I came on here for any by-election snippets and found myself defending Exeter, a city I know extremely well. I very rarely come on here at night. It's a bear pit.
I just get rather weary of Leon's know-it-all postings when he really doesn't know as much as he appears to convey. Maybe if you were a good deal less definite Leon it might help. But I fear that treading gently with you is a lost cause. You are terribly aggressive and it puts me right off this site to be honest. No worries.
Wakefield result at the local elections in May this year:
Labour 12130 50.7% Conservatives 8025 33.5% Yorkshire Party 1395 5.8% Greens 1213 5.0% Liberal Democrats 829 3.5% Others 350 1.5%
Labour lead = 4,105 votes
I think Labour will come in a bit under that and a 12% win would be fine. The Wakefield East ward swung wildly (27% Con to Lab) from 2021 to 2022, Con fielded an Asian candidate in 2021 and squeaked it, Lab fielded an Asian candidate in 2022 and got a 52% majority. In the by election, notwithstanding a disgraced Asian ex MP, the Tories are fielding another Asian candidate and it will be worth a few votes. That 1 (of 6) ward contributed 4.5% of the overall 11% LE swing.
Must admit, I gave up with T&H locals, translating County wards back to the District ones was too much, especially as the Tories looked pretty untouched and the only vaguely interesting question was LD and Lab relative position - so didn't look too relevant to the BE dynamic.
There is a map website on which you can overlay county and districts, but I didn't go for it.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
What's the world coming to when the Tories don't know how to successfully eviscerate their leader...
I wonder if Boris's allies actually sent in a load on no-confidence letters to get the vote done early, knowing that if it came after the by-elections it would be curtains.
Do you think Boris is actually organized enough to... well... organize something like that?
No. But Shapps did.
It deffo happened like that. Straight after the bank holiday, not even waiting till Wednesday. Just as drip drip was causing damage. And it worked, it burst the pressure bubble. Evidence? A cheesed off looking 1922 who knew it had been manipulated.
Dreariness is entirely in the eye of the beholder, so there's absolutely no point in this silly argument.
Quite so
I probably put more value on aesthetics. @Heathener being a late middle aged woman, likely puts more value on moral worth or vibrancy, as aesthetics are no longer her calling card
C'mon Leon. It's not that it's unchivalrous, it's that it looks like Heathener got under your skin.
Kundera's heroes were always above such leaden exchanges.
Yes, probably. Tsk!
Anyroad it is 2am here in T’bilisi, and I must plan my next move tomorrow. I am kinda bored of dowdy, concrete, late-USSR housing, so I dunno where I am going…
Hodges making a pillock of himself saying the Tories have done really well on expectation management front but must hold Tiverton. They haven't Dan. Read the room, its not close
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
Their impatience in not waiting a couple of weeks was/is bewildering.
I'm not here to ramp Labour's results, I am not sure talking in vote numbers is particularly helpful is it?
I think if Labour get less than 50% of the vote that will be very disappointing?
Need the maj sub 10k Horse
10K is that what we are expecting?
Depends on turnout. Percentage is far more relevant. There were 43k votes cast at GE. Would be surprised if there were 30k. There hasn't been a 10k majority since 1997. And that was only half of the current seat.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
Their impatience in not waiting a couple of weeks was/is bewildering.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
Their impatience in not waiting a couple of weeks was/is bewildering.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
Their impatience in not waiting a couple of weeks was/is bewildering.
It's all part of the plan! Keep Boris as PM and help maximise the Labour vote at the GE!
Just for the record, I've posted 10 times all evening and only 2 were with regard to Leon.
I came on here for any by-election snippets and found myself defending Exeter, a city I know extremely well. I very rarely come on here at night. It's a bear pit.
I just get rather weary of Leon's know-it-all postings when he really doesn't know as much as he appears to convey. Maybe if you were a good deal less definite Leon it might help. But I fear that treading gently with you is a lost cause. You are terribly aggressive and it puts me right off this site to be honest. No worries.
But, yes, Exeter is a great city.
You can always ignore the posters you don't like and chat with everyone else.
The BBC have been very naughty with the QT audience. They seem 80% to 85% hostile to Lynch and Thomas-Symonds and very supportive of Rachael Maskell.
Surely it's not improbable that a random selection of the British publis would be hostile to a union leader and someone attempting to defend a union leader? And I know the QT audience isn't a random sample. But it shouldn't be surprising to hear a union leader getting a hostile reception.
Hodges making a pillock of himself saying the Tories have done really well on expectation management front but must hold Tiverton. They haven't Dan. Read the room, its not close
Loving all the suggestions for where to move to. I think maybe we might be doing a few trips away over the next 18 months to check some of these places out.
Thanks all!
Add Stamford, Lincs to your list. Mrs Foxys parents used to live there and it is a beautiful old town, but not too expensive. It used to be the halfway stop overnight for the London to York route so is full of Georgian coaching inns and pubs. Burleigh House and Park are great to visit too. The train connection to London via Peterborough is good, there is a fair bit going on, and some lovely countryside around in Rutland and rural Northants.
Wakefield result at the local elections in May this year:
Labour 12130 50.7% Conservatives 8025 33.5% Yorkshire Party 1395 5.8% Greens 1213 5.0% Liberal Democrats 829 3.5% Others 350 1.5%
Labour lead = 4,105 votes
I think Labour will come in a bit under that and a 12% win would be fine. The Wakefield East ward swung wildly (27% Con to Lab) from 2021 to 2022, Con fielded an Asian candidate in 2021 and squeaked it, Lab fielded an Asian candidate in 2022 and got a 52% majority. In the by election, notwithstanding a disgraced Asian ex MP, the Tories are fielding another Asian candidate and it will be worth a few votes. That 1 (of 6) ward contributed 4.5% of the overall 11% LE swing.
Must admit, I gave up with T&H locals, translating County wards back to the District ones was too much, especially as the Tories looked pretty untouched and the only vaguely interesting question was LD and Lab relative position - so didn't look too relevant to the BE dynamic.
There is a map website on which you can overlay county and districts, but I didn't go for it.
When I say under, it's possible Labour will have a slightly higher vote %, but a slightly lower lead.
Loving all the suggestions for where to move to. I think maybe we might be doing a few trips away over the next 18 months to check some of these places out.
Thanks all!
Add Stamford, Lincs to your list. Mrs Foxys parents used to live there and it is a beautiful old town, but not too expensive. It used to be the halfway stop overnight for the London to York route so is full of Georgian coaching inns and pubs. Burleigh House and Park are great to visit too. The train connection to London via Peterborough is good, there is a fair bit going on, and some lovely countryside around in Rutland and rural Northants.
My Conservative source - "We're in for a terrible drubbing tonight. The rebels should have kept their powder dry for a few weeks and Boris would have been a goner by the months end."
Their impatience in not waiting a couple of weeks was/is bewildering.
First they were criticised for waiting and now they are criticised for not waiting.
They aren't suddenly going to find or keep hold of a spine. They are spineless.
Langbaurgh just got a mention on Newsnight. The constituency which is now known as Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland.
As the almanac of British politics put it, an illogical and unwieldy name to replace an unpronouncable one.
I rather liked Langbaurgh (pron. Langbarf, or near enough). One of those names which 95% of people couldn't place and for even the 5% who could place it almost all of them had no use of the word except for that very constituency. It felt as if it had been coined to describe a very specific area of the country.
It was a wapentake. Like Makerfield. Which was a hundred. I quite like these ancient names. They should be brought back. Not Westmorland and Furness. But Westmorland and Lonsdale. Going back further Elmet.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Anachronisms like this hurt no-one and should be cherished, not rationalised away.
Leicester Fosse, not Leicester City. Hilton Park services, not Birmingham North. Letters, rather than numbers, on the back of the Bristol (IIRC) rugby shirts. And so on.
The BBC have been very naughty with the QT audience. They seem 80% to 85% hostile to Lynch and Thomas-Symonds and very supportive of Rachael Maskell.
Surely it's not improbable that a random selection of the British publis would be hostile to a union leader and someone attempting to defend a union leader? And I know the QT audience isn't a random sample. But it shouldn't be surprising to hear a union leader getting a hostile reception.
The audience seem more hostile than the polling has suggested.
The BBC have been very naughty with the QT audience. They seem 80% to 85% hostile to Lynch and Thomas-Symonds and very supportive of Rachael Maskell.
Surely it's not improbable that a random selection of the British publis would be hostile to a union leader and someone attempting to defend a union leader? And I know the QT audience isn't a random sample. But it shouldn't be surprising to hear a union leader getting a hostile reception.
Yes the BBC is socially left wing but economically right wing basically Blairite
Regardless of what happens to Johnson I think much of the red wall is now lost
Nonsense. MRP showed a more or less uniform swing across all marginals. The red wall is no more or less vulnerable than other marginals. Tbh they might be slightly better for the Tories at the next election than other marginals still because the Lib Dem vote for Labour to squeeze is very low
Just for the record, I've posted 10 times all evening and only 2 were with regard to Leon.
I came on here for any by-election snippets and found myself defending Exeter, a city I know extremely well. I very rarely come on here at night. It's a bear pit.
I just get rather weary of Leon's know-it-all postings when he really doesn't know as much as he appears to convey. Maybe if you were a good deal less definite Leon it might help. But I fear that treading gently with you is a lost cause. You are terribly aggressive and it puts me right off this site to be honest. No worries.
But, yes, Exeter is a great city.
You can always ignore the posters you don't like and chat with everyone else.
Yeah. I shouldn't have joined in about Exeter. It's a great city with varied and intriguing mixtures of architecture, including the 1950's parts of the High St. Juxtaposed against Princeshay you have the Roman walls and mediaeval underground passages: amazing! It's a mishmash and I like that. But most of all I like the vibe. It's not sterile but full of life. I was there last Saturday and there were all manner of live musicians, including full on rock bands, playing in the streets. Just great.
Anyway, our eyes are elsewhere in Devon and in Wakefield and that's why I've popped on here though I doubt I shall stay awake.
I'm not here to ramp Labour's results, I am not sure talking in vote numbers is particularly helpful is it?
I think if Labour get less than 50% of the vote that will be very disappointing?
Need the maj sub 10k Horse
10K is that what we are expecting?
Depends on turnout. Percentage is far more relevant. There were 43k votes cast at GE. Would be surprised if there were 30k. There hasn't been a 10k majority since 1997. And that was only half of the current seat.
“ Percentage is far more relevant.‘ Explain it to me.
Because Voters won’t stay away in even numbers, but a huge slant. That makes raw vote change from ge more important than % change in reduced numbers election. You could easily get a massive % win on much less than actually voted for you last time, and be sat on fools gold come general election.
Labour need to win by 5 - 10K. They need to surpass the votes they got at GE. I’m looking how close they can get to the votes Tory’s recieved at last GE.
Langbaurgh just got a mention on Newsnight. The constituency which is now known as Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland.
As the almanac of British politics put it, an illogical and unwieldy name to replace an unpronouncable one.
I rather liked Langbaurgh (pron. Langbarf, or near enough). One of those names which 95% of people couldn't place and for even the 5% who could place it almost all of them had no use of the word except for that very constituency. It felt as if it had been coined to describe a very specific area of the country.
It was a wapentake. Like Makerfield. Which was a hundred. I quite like these ancient names. They should be brought back. Not Westmorland and Furness. But Westmorland and Lonsdale. Going back further Elmet.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Anachronisms like this hurt no-one and should be cherished, not rationalised away.
Leicester Fosse, not Leicester City. Hilton Park services, not Birmingham North. Letters, rather than numbers, on the back of the Bristol (IIRC) rugby shirts. And so on.
Bring back Small Heath Alliance! Leicester RU used to have letters too ISTR.
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
Correct, but important to point out the Network Railcard is only valid to Exeter on the slower route to London Waterloo via Salisbury and Yeovil, not the fast service to Paddington.
Do you have a reference for that? Can’t see anything on the website. I can see from Sunil’s map that the line leaves the area, but surely it’s only the endpoints that matter?
Unfortunately, looks like the railcard area ends at Bedwyn along the GWR Reading to Exeter route.
Ah! Any idea what (if anything) the grey on the map means?
There's no way we should have a supranational court overruling parliament. The only reason people broadly on the left like it at the moment is because it's making decisions they like. If it was making decisions like SCOTUS I doubt that support would last too long.
Exeter is in the South East of England, according to the strictures of the Network Railcard. So you can have 1/3 off rail travel to London and other points east, at any age.
Correct, but important to point out the Network Railcard is only valid to Exeter on the slower route to London Waterloo via Salisbury and Yeovil, not the fast service to Paddington.
Do you have a reference for that? Can’t see anything on the website. I can see from Sunil’s map that the line leaves the area, but surely it’s only the endpoints that matter?
Unfortunately, looks like the railcard area ends at Bedwyn along the GWR Reading to Exeter route.
Ah! Any idea what (if anything) the grey on the map means?
Probably just a "border" to the white area. Note that there is a lack of stations.
Anyway, a foregone conclusion and another foregone conclusion. It could have been slightly different had a few more rebels been mustered a fortnight ago, and politics has to me felt flat since then. I shall stick around no longer, but will go and see if the idiot ginger cat can be enticed in with a laser pointer and end the day on a high by drifting off to sleep cherishing the words 'Wapentake of Langbaurgh'... Good night all.
rel="Mexicanpete">The BBC have been very naughty with the QT audience. They seem 80% to 85% hostile to Lynch and Thomas-Symonds and very supportive of Rachael Maskell.
Comments
The "red wall" may swing back to Labour at the next election but future elections could easily see it going to Con again (Con may be in a similar situation with parts of the south and the Lib-Dems)
I think this century will see a lot more volatility as regions are no longer cemented to their old allegiances. It's going to be an interesting few decades...
Upbeat on Tiverton. They talked to 20k people in seat today
Source claims “very significant swing” from Tories (echoes what senior Tory source said)
Also said anacdotally Labourites lent votes to Libs + Tory switchers still being swayed today
Summary: ‘really tight’ 5/
Tactical voting = big problems for the Tories going forward
That's got to be some kind of record, shirley?
I'm on your side, architecturally. I like loveliness.I don't like ugliness.
But what we have a lot less of nowadays is actual squalor. York nowadays is a honeypot; a lovely preservation of a medeival city - but the actual medeival city; and indeed the Georgian city, and the Victorian city - was a shithole, a stinking, squalid dump where the vast majority of people lived in highly unsightly poverty. Even in the 30s, the town was sooty and blackened.
I'd like more of England's small towns to be like Ledbury and Ross. We could have made much better decisions with how we preserved and developed our towns. But I am very glad to live in the 21st century.
The win size is important here. Mid term of worst government ever, most hopeless PM ever, in a seat that’s not even their territory, Labour should have smashed it, not limp to a “not cutting through yet here” conclusion and embarrassingly try to ramp it.
If the wins less than 4K will you try to ramp it CHB?
Why not go to Moldova or Romania or maybe even one of the Baltic states? You can sort out deliveries of fresh underpants and stuff. The food and wine is good. Interesting stuff to see, lots of history & you can take the temperature of states on the edge of a European war.
This suggestion is in no way connected to the fact that I am currently working and cannot travel, enjoy your travelogues and am also interested in learning more about these countries.
Labour 12130 50.7%
Conservatives 8025 33.5%
Yorkshire Party 1395 5.8%
Greens 1213 5.0%
Liberal Democrats 829 3.5%
Others 350 1.5%
Labour lead = 4,105 votes
Also. Worst government ever?
I can think of at least the previous four Tory-led ones as serious contenders.
it really makes me weep. The UK probably had the most beautiful towns and cities on earth, alongside France and Italy. We fucked most of them up. All by ourselves, after a kick start by the Germans
I agree if neither leader is changed, and no black swans, Labour win by 4 or 5. I don’t agree Tories have to tank in polls just because economy is bad, they might not get blame for it, their action on it may be popular, promises of Tory tax cuts may win votes when people feel hard up.
I rather liked Langbaurgh (pron. Langbarf, or near enough). One of those names which 95% of people couldn't place and for even the 5% who could place it almost all of them had no use of the word except for that very constituency. It felt as if it had been coined to describe a very specific area of the country.
What I liked about Shrewsbury was that, although not a large town, it is still the largest town for miles around in most directions and so has everything you might need on a regular basis, all the main shops etc. It was historically important and has an unusually large historic core, which has mostly been left alone. All nestling in the bend of the Severn.
We are not totally unique. Rotterdam was reuilt 'daringly', and you can spot the malign influence of modernism in France. But we have been more hostile to our heritage than most.
There are a few horrors, but they are few
The French have a greater sense of “the patrimony” that-must-not-be-overthrown. Cf Macron’s response to statue toppling: Fuck off, it’s not happening here, and it didn’t
Chapeau. I don’t like him, but chapeau
Goodnight PBers.
Like Makerfield. Which was a hundred.
I quite like these ancient names. They should be brought back.
Not Westmorland and Furness. But Westmorland and Lonsdale.
Going back further Elmet.
The vote comparisons tell us where we are not the % of this poll. Admit you are wrong again deano.
Looking at the votes on wiki this time, last time, time before (17) time before (15) time before (10) Labour need to clearly smash this one tonight, pile a big win on. a Labour seat captured by Tories before they turned into the most rubbish government ever, and Labour so far this parliament unconvincing in red wall - even in mid term - I refuse to let any PB Labourite hail and ramp just a mere win tonight.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics-betting-2378961
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/supreme-court-new-york-concealed-carry-law-gun-control-bruen.html
… But Thomas did not stop there. In striking down New York’s restriction, the justice also established a new standard for evaluating gun control measures. First, he asked whether a law interferes with rights protected in “the plain text” of the Second Amendment—specifically, the right to self-defense (which is not actually in the amendment’s text). If so, Thomas explained, that law is presumptively unconstitutional. The government may only save it from invalidation if it can prove that the regulation “is consistent with this nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation.”
In other words, courts may no longer rely on empirical evidence in upholding gun control laws. They cannot, for instance, cite the heightened lethality of a particular weapon. Such data is now irrelevant. Rather, they can only ask whether there is some “historical analogue” from 1791 (when the Second Amendment was ratified) or 1868 (when the 14th Amendment was ratified, applying the Second Amendment to the states). One might assume that this analysis would only shield weapons that were in common use in 1791 or 1868. But Thomas clarified that “any modern instruments that facilitate armed self-defense” are also protected under the Constitution, even if they did not exist until recently.…
I think if Labour get less than 50% of the vote that will be very disappointing?
They haven't Dan. Read the room, its not close
Kundera's heroes were always above such leaden exchanges.
So raw numbers of majority aren't the key.
Economic railway doesn't exist, railways don't make money and nor should they. They are a public service.
I came on here for any by-election snippets and found myself defending Exeter, a city I know extremely well. I very rarely come on here at night. It's a bear pit.
I just get rather weary of Leon's know-it-all postings when he really doesn't know as much as he appears to convey. Maybe if you were a good deal less definite Leon it might help. But I fear that treading gently with you is a lost cause. You are terribly aggressive and it puts me right off this site to be honest. No worries.
But, yes, Exeter is a great city.
Must admit, I gave up with T&H locals, translating County wards back to the District ones was too much, especially as the Tories looked pretty untouched and the only vaguely interesting question was LD and Lab relative position - so didn't look too relevant to the BE dynamic.
There is a map website on which you can overlay county and districts, but I didn't go for it.
It deffo happened like that. Straight after the bank holiday, not even waiting till Wednesday. Just as drip drip was causing damage.
And it worked, it burst the pressure bubble.
Evidence? A cheesed off looking 1922 who knew it had been manipulated.
Anyroad it is 2am here in T’bilisi, and I must plan my next move tomorrow. I am kinda bored of dowdy, concrete, late-USSR housing, so I dunno where I am going…
Goodnight sweet PBers
I would have thought as the biggest town Tiverton would be the LDs best area in the constituency
https://twitter.com/TheLibRadEcho/status/1540094454010417156?s=20&t=5M9ziSX2B_3QaSEUvl71Aw
Is this expectation management?
There were 43k votes cast at GE. Would be surprised if there were 30k.
There hasn't been a 10k majority since 1997. And that was only half of the current seat.
And I know the QT audience isn't a random sample. But it shouldn't be surprising to hear a union leader getting a hostile reception.
So perhaps they have been told to wander around the count looking like losers.
Dear god man.
Burghley.
They aren't suddenly going to find or keep hold of a spine. They are spineless.
Anachronisms like this hurt no-one and should be cherished, not rationalised away.
Leicester Fosse, not Leicester City.
Hilton Park services, not Birmingham North.
Letters, rather than numbers, on the back of the Bristol (IIRC) rugby shirts.
And so on.
Anyway, our eyes are elsewhere in Devon and in Wakefield and that's why I've popped on here though I doubt I shall stay awake.
Explain it to me.
Because Voters won’t stay away in even numbers, but a huge slant. That makes raw vote change from ge more important than % change in reduced numbers election. You could easily get a massive % win on much less than actually voted for you last time, and be sat on fools gold come general election.
Labour need to win by 5 - 10K. They need to surpass the votes they got at GE. I’m looking how close they can get to the votes Tory’s recieved at last GE.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1540097320100024320?s=20&t=5M9ziSX2B_3QaSEUvl71Aw
Leicester RU used to have letters too ISTR.
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1540096426495148032?s=20&t=YS1ctdBUZBsf6UNPKk4HrA
If it was making decisions like SCOTUS I doubt that support would last too long.
BBC have rigged audience I think
Rachel Maclean.