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Opinium polling on Partygate v Beergate – – politicalbetting.com

1235

Comments

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Someone knows now.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ukraine gets 439 votes from the public so storms to the lead

    From 40 countries is formidable.
    That's out of a maximum 480, presumably?
    Are there any countries conspicuous by not voting for Ukraine?
    468 I think: you are not allowed to vote for yourself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    Cookie said:

    Going to be tricky holding it in Ukraine next year while the Russians are shelling it.

    I’m hoping Putin’s mob will have been turfed out by then.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Eurovisionland says "Russian invader - fuck you!"
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,398
    Putin deprives UK of a Eurovision win.

    Nuke him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    UK gets 183 public votes so we come 2nd
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,919
    UK second place!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Eurovision - the most extensive and trusted pan-European voting exercise?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,968
    2nd place behind winners Ukraine, decent night's betting there.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,152
    Everyone is happy! Ukraine 1 UK 2 👍👍👍👍👍
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    UK gets 183 public votes so we come 2nd

    So we did pretty decently even on the public vote, excellent.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Ukraine wins, might be interesting venue next year from a Kyiv bunker!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Going to be tricky holding it in Ukraine next year while the Russians are shelling it.

    I’m hoping Putin’s mob will have been turfed out by then.
    Would be rather awkward if Russia ended up hosting it next year.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited May 2022
    Next year in Sevastapol? Ukraine gets Crimea back and they host it there as the world's biggest fuck you to Putin...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    Robbed!

    Proof again that we should be relying on experts and not the public when it comes to big decisions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Sandpit said:

    Let’s all look forward to the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest, to be staged in Kyiv.

    It'd be nice to hold it in Donetsk, sadly that is probably unlikely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Putin deprives UK of a Eurovision win.

    Nuke him.

    I doubt we would have got many public votes without the war and from Eastern Europe
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    Sandpit said:

    Let’s all look forward to the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest, to be staged in Kyiv.

    Hopefully in peace.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Going to be tricky holding it in Ukraine next year while the Russians are shelling it.

    I’m hoping Putin’s mob will have been turfed out by then.
    Would be rather awkward if Russia ended up hosting it next year.
    Second place would get to host......
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ukraine gets 439 votes from the public so storms to the lead

    From 40 countries is formidable.
    That's out of a maximum 480, presumably?
    Are there any countries conspicuous by not voting for Ukraine?
    Serbia maybe.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited May 2022
    Boom bang a bang to win next year?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in almost every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,534
    The UK was the better song but very happy to see Ukraine win . I voted for them and I know it should be about just songs but the public clearly wanted to send a message . Pride restored for the UK so overall a great evening .
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ping said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Any tips for how to remove a small wood splinter embedded in my thumb? V near surface but cannot seem to squeeze it out .....

    I had exactly that problem last month.

    I tried tweezers. Didn’t work.

    So I left it.

    A small blister came up, it filled with pus, followed by blood and eventually drained. ~2 weeks later the skin frayed, leaving new skin behind and inside the ex-blister was a tiny splinter, which popped out.

    The human body is amazing at dealing with these things.
    Thanks for the tips all.

    Off to shops tomorrow to get some needles etc.

    I'd rather not go the blister route because I recently got an infection in my other thumb which necessitated many hours in A&E and a week's worth of antibiotics. I have managed to avoid Covid but small infections are a nightmare.
    Neat malt vinegar is very good at preventing infections in small cuts from gardening etc.
    Thanks. I should wear gloves but hate doing so. This was not gardening related though. Just snagged a bit of wood on a chair in garden as I sat down to rest ..... ironically enough.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Given our own travails in the competition I suppose it would be wrong to take pleasure in another's misfortune at coming dead last with zero points?

    Do the Germans have a word for schadenfreude?
    Way to spoil my attempt at subtlety!
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    Sandpit said:

    Let’s all look forward to the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest, to be staged in Kyiv.

    I'd put it 50:50 that we do end up hosting.
    If Ukraine is still fighting for its life, it might decline to host (and presumably we'd take up the mantle instead). Alternatively, if they've lost (and I sincerely hope not) then no one would allow a Russian puppet state to host, and we'd end up hosting as second place.

    But I do hope they are able to host.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 337
    Phew! It would have been embarrassing if we had pipped Ukraine at the post.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    Foxy said:

    Ukraine win the popular vote by a mile.

    It would be interesting to see the country breakdown of the popular vote.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    HYUFD said:

    Putin deprives UK of a Eurovision win.

    Nuke him.

    I doubt we would have got many public votes without the war and from Eastern Europe
    Are you absolutely convinced it's Boris Johnson wot nearly won it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,919
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited May 2022
    Why are punters so good at euro-psephology, yet so shit at predicting UK elections?

    Discuss….
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    nico679 said:

    The UK was the better song but very happy to see Ukraine win . I voted for them and I know it should be about just songs but the public clearly wanted to send a message . Pride restored for the UK so overall a great evening .

    Are you sure? I thought it was rather insipid.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    MaxPB said:

    I'm probably going to lose but I've decided to heavily lay Ukraine

    This was a bad idea.
    It was based on the premise the public might vote on the songs. No-one in my friendship groups decided to vote Ukraine in the phone ins but Moldova, Sweden, Spain, Romania etc.

    So I thought it might be hugely overhyped and the betting based on assumed emotionality.

    I was wrong.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    As reported on BBC:

    President Zelensky has congratulated Kalush Orchestra on their win for Ukraine.

    "Our courage impresses the world, our music conquers Europe," he wrote on Telegram.

    "We will do our best to one day host the participants and guests of Eurovision in Ukrainian Mariupol. Free, peaceful, rebuilt," he added.


    As (probably) reported on Putin Today:

    Prominent Nazi Leader of Ukraine confesses desire to conquer the European continent
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or the European Broadcasting Area or have a majority ethnic European population
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    Everyone in the entire world comes from the same humans that left Africa. There is no difference between the origin of a UK or Chinese person except for the very very very small percentage input due to breeding with other human species that have since died out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    When are the next important elections/primaries in the United States?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Ukraine win the popular vote by a mile.

    It would be interesting to see the country breakdown of the popular vote.
    439 out of a possible 468 must mean 12 points for Ukraine almost everywhere.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Let’s all look forward to the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest, to be staged in Kyiv.

    It'd be nice to hold it in Donetsk, sadly that is probably unlikely.
    Make it a fundraiser, deliberately broadcast from the ruins of Mariupol.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    Everyone in the entire world comes from the same humans that left Africa. There is no difference between the origin of a UK or Chinese person except for the very very very small percentage input due to breeding with other human species that have since died out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg, Jimmy Hendrix and Timmy Mallet share a common ancestor.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited May 2022

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.

    I don’t think there was any foul play, based on my observation of the odds.

    The thing that was puzzling was that ukraines price went from ~1/3 to ~2/1+ at start of the jury results, then back into ~1/3, in short order.

    Made no sense. I mean, surely punters had gamed the sequence of events?!!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    It's because there weren't enough points left for the UK to win. Ukraine won after Spain had their result announced I think, the UK would have needed Sweden to get close to zero points.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or the European Broadcasting Area or have a majority ethnic European population
    *cough*

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 337
    TimT said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK was the better song but very happy to see Ukraine win . I voted for them and I know it should be about just songs but the public clearly wanted to send a message . Pride restored for the UK so overall a great evening .

    Are you sure? I thought it was rather insipid.
    Good result. Didn't rate our entry.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    It was a certainty. All you needed to do was count the votes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Each of the 40 nations awards 12to1 points each for the popular vote.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited May 2022
    The Mail have been at work while others have partied or watched the footy & Eurovision.

    They have identified a top physicist who "sold Britain's nuclear secrets to Czech communist spies at the height of the Cold War". A Prof Michael Stern of Sheffield University, now retired, and living quietly in the 'burbs.

    The Mail has the details of seedy meetings in Soho handing over top secrets to his Czech handlers.

    https://tinyurl.com/4x3rrhj9

    The Mail have fearlessly exposed him to his neighbours. They were shocked:

    "'Wow, an international spy. I never would have thought that. He is still a member of the Lib Dems as far as I know. I'll certainly ask him about it the next time I see him."
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    You have to be a member of the European Broadcasting Union, which as you say includes Jordan, plus North African countries (Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    It's the same 12, 10, 8 to 1 for each country just like with the jury vote.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited May 2022

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Yes, a country can get a maximum of 468 points. I think it's something like ~2700 points available in total depending on which countries have made the final 25.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Each of the 40 nations awards 12to1 points each for the popular vote.
    So the maximum anyone can win in the public vote is 480 points and this is predicated on winning douze points in every single country?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Each of the 40 nations awards 12to1 points each for the popular vote.
    So the maximum anyone can win in the public vote is 480 points and this is predicated on winning douze points in every single country?
    Yup.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    CatMan said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    You have to be a member of the European Broadcasting Union, which as you say includes Jordan, plus North African countries (Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria)
    Boundaries of europe are quite variable, like Kazakstan in the Euros for football etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited May 2022
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    It really is hilarious that he is inventing qualifying criteria when 2 minutes of googling would show that not only has race never officially been a reason (of course!), 'Europeanness' has not been universal in practice either. He's having a goof - you wait, he'll be talking about caucasian races by the time I've typed this to explain Morocco being involved.

    The EBU is pretty clear on its entry requirements:

    EBU Membership is open to authorized broadcasting organizations from countries which are either within the European Broadcasting Area (as defined by the ITU) or, if their country is outside that area, are members of the Council of Europe

    https://www.ebu.ch/about/members/admission

    And the Broadcasting area is defined as

    The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the west by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the south by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean within these limits. In addition, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and those parts of the territories of Iraq, Jordan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Ukraine lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area

    https://www.sma.gov.jm/sites/default/files/publication_files/ITU-R_Radio_Regulations_2012_ 2015_ Article_5_Table of Frequencies.pdf
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Each of the 40 nations awards 12to1 points each for the popular vote.
    So the maximum anyone can win in the public vote is 480 points and this is predicated on winning douze points in every single country?
    No, can't vote for themselves so 468.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.

    I don’t think there was any foul play, based on my observation of the odds.

    The thing that was puzzling was that ukraines price went from ~1/3 to ~2/1+ at start of the jury results, then back into ~1/3, in short order.

    Made no sense. I mean, surely punters had gamed the sequence of events?!!
    The smart thing to do (which I didn't do) would have been to lay Ukraine heavily before the Jury votes and then rebacked at 2/1 then.

    In fact, I almost did that but then got high on my own supply and then layed some more - alcohol didn't help.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    The Mail have been at work while others have partied or watched the footy & Eurovision.

    They have identified a top physicist who "sold Britain's nuclear secrets to Czech communist spies at the height of the Cold War". A Prof Michael Stern of Sheffield University, now retired, and living quietly in the 'burbs.

    The Mail has the details of seedy meetings in Soho handing over top secrets to his Czech handlers.

    https://tinyurl.com/4x3rrhj9

    The Mail have fearlessly exposed him to his neighbours. They were shocked:

    "'Wow, an international spy. I never would have thought that. He is still a member of the Lib Dems as far as I know. I'll certainly ask him about it the next time I see him."

    Post-Clegg, what’s more embarrassing in Sheffield, spying for the soviet bloc or being in the LibDems?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Whole year to wait now. Ah well.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.
    Are points distributed within a cap?

    I thought they were unbounded and based on absolute votes.
    Each of the 40 nations awards 12to1 points each for the popular vote.
    So the maximum anyone can win in the public vote is 480 points and this is predicated on winning douze points in every single country?
    No, can't vote for themselves so 468.
    Thanks. Of course.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    As reported on BBC:

    President Zelensky has congratulated Kalush Orchestra on their win for Ukraine.

    "Our courage impresses the world, our music conquers Europe," he wrote on Telegram.

    "We will do our best to one day host the participants and guests of Eurovision in Ukrainian Mariupol. Free, peaceful, rebuilt," he added.


    As (probably) reported on Putin Today:

    Prominent Nazi Leader of Ukraine confesses desire to conquer the European continent

    Yeah, that's a pretty good "fuck you" to Putin, and far more realistic than my idea...
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    kinabalu said:

    Whole year to wait now. Ah well.

    Indeed, I just hope the BBC has learned putting forwards a good artist and song will lead to us doing well. It was so lamentable for so long with such awful non-descript songs and bland artists. This year's song is still in my head because it's good, last year's I didn't remember for even three seconds after it was over.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.

    I don’t think there was any foul play, based on my observation of the odds.

    The thing that was puzzling was that ukraines price went from ~1/3 to ~2/1+ at start of the jury results, then back into ~1/3, in short order.

    Made no sense. I mean, surely punters had gamed the sequence of events?!!
    The smart thing to do (which I didn't do) would have been to lay Ukraine heavily before the Jury votes and then rebacked at 2/1 then.

    In fact, I almost did that but then got high on my own supply and then layed some more - alcohol didn't help.
    Ouch. Smart thing to do was to sit this one out. Far too political and subjective. Hope you didn’t lose much.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    1980 - Johnny Logan's first win.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.
    You're not even trying anymore. You have included the actual criteria re EBU, and then added in your own invented one and pretending they are of equal relevance!

    The very fact you have had to acknowledge the European Broadcast Area is not restricted to Europe alone makes your previous assertions all the more preposterous - you clearly hadn't even googled that fact when having this little game of yours, and are trying to imply you had meant it all along.

    God bless you for a good laugh. The only thing funnier would be if you pretend you are serious about this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.

    I don’t think there was any foul play, based on my observation of the odds.

    The thing that was puzzling was that ukraines price went from ~1/3 to ~2/1+ at start of the jury results, then back into ~1/3, in short order.

    Made no sense. I mean, surely punters had gamed the sequence of events?!!
    The smart thing to do (which I didn't do) would have been to lay Ukraine heavily before the Jury votes and then rebacked at 2/1 then.

    In fact, I almost did that but then got high on my own supply and then layed some more - alcohol didn't help.
    Ouch. Smart thing to do was to sit this one out. Far too political and subjective. Hope you didn’t lose much.
    About £160. But offset a bit by laying Australia in Top 10 and Sweden as winner w/o Ukraine, which I both won.

    I think I should stick to politics.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did, and IIRC Canada could do or could have done as they are or were some sort of associate member of the European Broadcasting Union but never did enter.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Mass shooting by far right nutter in Buffalo.
    Killer had a manifesto which suggested killing, among others, Sadiq Khan.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Let’s all look forward to the 2023 Eurovision Song Contest, to be staged in Kyiv.

    It'd be nice to hold it in Donetsk, sadly that is probably unlikely.
    Or Sevastopol? :wink:

    Edit: Nevermind, Applicant there way before me. Mariupol would indeed be great if the situation allowed by then...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    It really is hilarious that he is inventing qualifying criteria when 2 minutes of googling would show that not only has race never officially been a reason (of course!), 'Europeanness' has not been universal in practice either. He's having a goof - you wait, he'll be talking about caucasian races by the time I've typed this to explain Morocco being involved.

    The EBU is pretty clear on its entry requirements:

    EBU Membership is open to authorized broadcasting organizations from countries which are either within the European Broadcasting Area (as defined by the ITU) or, if their country is outside that area, are members of the Council of Europe

    https://www.ebu.ch/about/members/admission

    And the Broadcasting area is defined as

    The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the west by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the south by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean within these limits. In addition, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and those parts of the territories of Iraq, Jordan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Ukraine lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area

    https://www.sma.gov.jm/sites/default/files/publication_files/ITU-R_Radio_Regulations_2012_ 2015_ Article_5_Table of Frequencies.pdf
    Race is the reason why Australia is allowed to compete despite not being geographically in the European Broadcasting Area ie if most Australians were not of ethnic European origin it would not be able to compete.

    Otherwise the contest would cease to be Eurovision and be WorldVision instead
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    Right. So why does its inclusion in a broadcasting area, which clearly has no limitation based on race, lead you to conclude that there is a limitation based on race for the contest?

    Your argument at the moment appears to literally be "There is a racial component on eligibility, except for those already in it who don't meet that racial component"
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Eurovision 2023, live from Snake Island.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Mass shooting by far right nutter in Buffalo.
    Killer had a manifesto which suggested killing, among others, Sadiq Khan.

    Where could he have got the name of a London Mayor directly criticised by the former US President?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Jonathan said:

    Eurovision 2023, live from Snake Island.

    Please make this happen.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,919
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.
    No, Eurovision just invited them!

    https://eurovision.tv/story/australia-to-compete-in-the-2015-eurovision-song-contest

    "This year, the Eurovision Song Contest celebrates its 60th anniversary. To give the anniversary celebrations an extra dimension and to walk the talk on this year’s theme Building Bridges, the EBU and host broadcaster ORF invited Australia to compete in the Grand Final of the 2015 Eurovision Song Contest. This brings the total amount of represented countries to 40.
    [..]
    "Australia has a long tradition of broadcasting the Eurovision Song Contest and a loyal fan base watching the event every year. Broadcaster SBS from Australia is also an Associate Member of the EBU."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    "So how did everyone enjoy Eurovision last night?"

    "Oh, everyone all got very excited. Took some standard potshots at the Germans, ranted against the Australians for not giving the UK any points, and lots of pro Ukrainians gags"

    "All in good fun it seems. Anything else?"

    "Oh, and also a debate about Eurovision being restricted to majority European places, and something about continental drift and neanderthals".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    Right. So why does its inclusion in a broadcasting area, which clearly has no limitation based on race, lead you to conclude that there is a limitation based on race for the contest?

    Your argument at the moment appears to literally be "There is a racial component on eligibility, except for those already in it who don't meet that racial component"
    As to go beyond the European Broadcasting Area region they have obviously decided to allow in nations of majority European ethnic origin like Australia.

    Most of Africa, all of South and East Asia and most of Latin America still cannot join as they are neither in the European Broadcasting Area nor of majority European ethnic origin.

    If they were able to join despite having no link to Europe either geographically, in terms of broadcast area or ethnically then it would cease to be Eurovision and be Worldvision instead
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    But they don't come under your bizarre definition of European origin do they? Just like lots of other countries that are eligible like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya those other well known Europe countries with, let's face it, what you really wanted to say restricted to people white faces.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,501
    Jonathan said:

    Eurovision 2023, live from Snake Island.

    Opening with the traditional Ukrainian greeting "F*** you Russian warship"
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    Jonathan said:

    ping said:

    The EBU is as leaky as they come.

    All the money on Betfair (and I mean all of it) was cleaned up minutes before the final votes for the UK came in.

    Now, you might say that's because the Ukraine vote lead was insurmountable - and it was. But, the markets shouldn't have been certain it was and there should have been 1.02 or 1.03 available right to the end.

    I assumed some sharp punters had done that maths on how many points were left to distribute.

    I don’t think there was any foul play, based on my observation of the odds.

    The thing that was puzzling was that ukraines price went from ~1/3 to ~2/1+ at start of the jury results, then back into ~1/3, in short order.

    Made no sense. I mean, surely punters had gamed the sequence of events?!!
    The smart thing to do (which I didn't do) would have been to lay Ukraine heavily before the Jury votes and then rebacked at 2/1 then.

    In fact, I almost did that but then got high on my own supply and then layed some more - alcohol didn't help.
    Ouch. Smart thing to do was to sit this one out. Far too political and subjective. Hope you didn’t lose much.
    'Political' should make it kind of our thing though, shouldn't it? :wink:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068
    edited May 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Eurovision 2023, live from Snake Island.

    To be honest, Kyiv or Lviv would be better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    But they don't come under your bizarre definition of European origin do they? Just like lots of other countries that are eligible like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya those other well known Europe countries with, let's face it, what you really wanted to say restricted to people white faces.
    They are all geographically close to Europe and full members of the broadcast area of the European Broadcasting Area.

    However most of Africa and Latin America and the vast majority of Asia is not in the European Broadcast Area, nor of majority European ethnic origin like Australia and therefore ineligible to join.

  • NotThatNickNotThatNick Posts: 16
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    But they don't come under your bizarre definition of European origin do they? Just like lots of other countries that are eligible like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya those other well known Europe countries with, let's face it, what you really wanted to say restricted to people white faces.
    Though it was slightly shocking that of the 43 presenters/scoregivers tonight I can recall only one of them not being white - AJ Odudu for the UK's votes
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    Right. So why does its inclusion in a broadcasting area, which clearly has no limitation based on race, lead you to conclude that there is a limitation based on race for the contest?

    Your argument at the moment appears to literally be "There is a racial component on eligibility, except for those already in it who don't meet that racial component"
    As to go beyond the European Broadcasting Area region they have obviously decided to allow in nations of majority European ethnic origin like Australia.

    Most of Africa, all of South and East Asia and most of Latin America still cannot join as they are neither in the European Broadcasting Area nor of majority European ethnic origin.

    If they were able to join despite having no link to Europe either geographically, in terms of broadcast area or ethnically then it would cease to be Eurovision and be Worldvision instead
    It's just a sodding name. Like the World Series being only in America.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    It really is hilarious that he is inventing qualifying criteria when 2 minutes of googling would show that not only has race never officially been a reason (of course!), 'Europeanness' has not been universal in practice either. He's having a goof - you wait, he'll be talking about caucasian races by the time I've typed this to explain Morocco being involved.

    The EBU is pretty clear on its entry requirements:

    EBU Membership is open to authorized broadcasting organizations from countries which are either within the European Broadcasting Area (as defined by the ITU) or, if their country is outside that area, are members of the Council of Europe

    https://www.ebu.ch/about/members/admission

    And the Broadcasting area is defined as

    The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the west by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the south by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean within these limits. In addition, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and those parts of the territories of Iraq, Jordan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Ukraine lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area

    https://www.sma.gov.jm/sites/default/files/publication_files/ITU-R_Radio_Regulations_2012_ 2015_ Article_5_Table of Frequencies.pdf
    Race is the reason why Australia is allowed to compete despite not being geographically in the European Broadcasting Area ie if most Australians were not of ethnic European origin it would not be able to compete.

    Otherwise the contest would cease to be Eurovision and be WorldVision instead
    Well I give up this hilarious diversion, since you apparently cannot read, and assume we cannot either as you jump from your previous assertion about being in Europe geographically to being in the EBA geographically and think no one will notice that blows apart the next part of your statement.

    If you are now accepting that being in the EBA geographically is the key, then your bit about ethinic European origin makes no sense - because by your new logic about the EBA, one would only need to be ethnically of the EBA, which as you have been forced to accept is not analagous to Europe.

    It is painfully obvious that you did not realise the EBA was not coterminous with the (already fuzzily defined) boundary of Europe when you began this, and so assumed your effort toward Eurovision racial purity could at least be argued. That you've rolled back on the point, something you usually don't do even this much, demonstrates you had not a damn clue about the EBA at the start.

    Next time google it first, my friend!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    Right. So why does its inclusion in a broadcasting area, which clearly has no limitation based on race, lead you to conclude that there is a limitation based on race for the contest?

    Your argument at the moment appears to literally be "There is a racial component on eligibility, except for those already in it who don't meet that racial component"
    As to go beyond the European Broadcasting Area region they have obviously decided to allow in nations of majority European ethnic origin like Australia.

    Most of Africa, all of South and East Asia and most of Latin America still cannot join as they are neither in the European Broadcasting Area nor of majority European ethnic origin.

    If they were able to join despite having no link to Europe either geographically, in terms of broadcast area or ethnically then it would cease to be Eurovision and be Worldvision instead
    It's just a sodding name. Like the World Series being only in America.
    It includes Canada too but few other nations really play baseball
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,585
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Eurovision 2023, live from Snake Island.

    To be honest, Kyiv or Lviv would be better.
    Sevastapol would be even better!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    But they don't come under your bizarre definition of European origin do they? Just like lots of other countries that are eligible like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya those other well known Europe countries with, let's face it, what you really wanted to say restricted to people white faces.
    Though it was slightly shocking that of the 43 presenters/scoregivers tonight I can recall only one of them not being white - AJ Odudu for the UK's votes
    Not massively surprising to me.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bame-eu-parliament-members-ethnic-minority-a9315036.html?amp
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    Right. So why does its inclusion in a broadcasting area, which clearly has no limitation based on race, lead you to conclude that there is a limitation based on race for the contest?

    Your argument at the moment appears to literally be "There is a racial component on eligibility, except for those already in it who don't meet that racial component"
    As to go beyond the European Broadcasting Area region they have obviously decided to allow in nations of majority European ethnic origin like Australia.

    Most of Africa, all of South and East Asia and most of Latin America still cannot join as they are neither in the European Broadcasting Area nor of majority European ethnic origin.

    If they were able to join despite having no link to Europe either geographically, in terms of broadcast area or ethnically then it would cease to be Eurovision and be Worldvision instead
    It's just a sodding name. Like the World Series being only in America.
    It includes Canada too but few other nations really play baseball
    Whoosh straight over your head.

    Also big sport in Japan.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    kle4 said:

    "So how did everyone enjoy Eurovision last night?"

    "Oh, everyone all got very excited. Took some standard potshots at the Germans, ranted against the Australians for not giving the UK any points, and lots of pro Ukrainians gags"

    "All in good fun it seems. Anything else?"

    "Oh, and also a debate about Eurovision being restricted to majority European places, and something about continental drift and neanderthals".

    The most astonishing thing was that nice things were said about France.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Sorry, Casino, but laying Ukraine was a Putinesque level of misreading of the mood in Eurovisionland to support Ukraine.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Why is Australia in Eurovision? My geography is not great, but I am pretty sure it's not in Europe.

    Most Australians' families are of European origin however
    Or African, if you go back far enough.
    That was before the continents emerged geographically.

    Since the continents emerged then if you added those nations whose populations are mainly of European ancestry to the European nations who compere in Eurovision, then Canada, New Zealand, the USA, Chile and Argentina as well as Australia would be the maximum number of competitors in Eurovision
    What on Earth are you saying? Modern humans came out of Africa probably within the last 200,000 years. When do you think the continents emerged? The land masses and seas were basically the same 200,000 years ago.
    And neanderthals were in Europe 130,000 years ago and humans as you might now define them 30,000 years ago.

    Their descendants inhabit the majority of the European nations that compete in Eurovision today and a majority of a few nations beyond Europe too ie Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the USA, Chile and Argentina as I said, plus Uruguay
    I am unclear what you are saying. Who does “Their” refer to?
    Ethnic Europeans ie the majority of the population in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile
    Sorry, I remain baffled by what point you were making. Why did you mention Neanderthals?

    The modern European population largely comes from the Near East/Middle East (via the spread of agriculture) and partly from the Indo-European Urheimat of the Pontic steppe, IIRC.
    They were the first here and yes you can add some who came to Europe after.

    Their descendants comprise the ethnic Europeans who make up most of the European population as well as the majority of the population in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina as I said
    All non-African populations have a bit of Neanderthal ancestry, but very little. Europeans are not Neanderthals. We’re almost entirely descended from the same African evolution of modern humans as everyone else.
    Well so what. That is completely irrelevant to what constitutes am ethnic European which was the original discussion.

    Ethnic Europeans are the descendants of the original population of Europe ie those who constitute the majority of the population in Europe, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Hence why Australia can compete in Eurovision
    I don't think that's officially the reason, unless Eurovision got sponsored by the KKK and I missed it.
    Well it is the logical reason
    It's also kind of racist. I think it's more likely that Eurovision is just really popular in Australia. If Eurovision officially became a contest only for white people I might pay it even less attention than I do already, however difficult that might be.
    No it isn't. There is nothing racist about saying most Australians are ethnic Europeans, it is just fact.

    Non white minorities in the participating countries can compete too but the majority of the population in every Eurovision competing nation is ethnic European
    Australia were invited to join Eurovision because of the 60th anniversary of the contest.
    And the fact most of their population are ethnic European made that possible.

    To enter Eurovision you must either be a country at least partly in Europe geographically or have a majority ethnic European population
    No. Jordan has been in in the past. There isn't a racial qualification.
    To be a participant a nation has to be in Europe geographically or the European Broadcast Area region at least or have a population of majority ethnic European origin.

    Jordan has never competed in Eurovision as far as I can see
    I think Morocco once did
    They are in the European Broadcasting Area
    But they don't come under your bizarre definition of European origin do they? Just like lots of other countries that are eligible like Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya those other well known Europe countries with, let's face it, what you really wanted to say restricted to people white faces.
    They are all geographically close to Europe and full members of the broadcast area of the European Broadcasting Area.

    However most of Africa and Latin America and the vast majority of Asia is not in the European Broadcast Area, nor of majority European ethnic origin like Australia and therefore ineligible to join.

    There is nothing whatsoever in the rules about European Racial majority purity which is what you first said. I might remind you that in a previous discussion you believed that African countries had IQs at a level of that of a severely mentally disabled adult or a very young infant and that the reason for their poverty was because of this low IQ.

    Yet you objected to being called a racist.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Sorry, Casino, but laying Ukraine was a Putinesque level of misreading of the mood in Eurovisionland to support Ukraine.

    Yes, most of the heterosexual male viewership were toying with the idea of laying Spain instead.
This discussion has been closed.