Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Johnson an even stronger favourite to survive till 2024 – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    She should move to the states, where we know how to spell. As in the color gray!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,604

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    She should move to the states, where we know how to spell. As in the color gray!
    I can't argue with that one. I'll give you peanut over ground nut too (though both are mistaken as it's actually a legume). The English for peanut butter used to be ground ground nuts.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,912
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic I know, but F1. Mercedes have a lot of upgrades this weekend, and are looking competitive against Ferrari and Red Bull in first practice. Could be a three way fight this weekend, the silver cars might be worth backing for a podium.

    Considering the absolute dog of a car they've had over the first four races, it's pretty startling that Mercedes are third in the constructors' championship, and Russell is fourth in the drivers. Good driving by Russell.
    I experienced Americans - on discovering I am British/European - asking me eagerly about F1 when I was there last week. Never happened before. Seems to be gaining in popularity across the Pond?

    This article affirms that notion

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellore/2022/05/06/miami-grand-prix-signifies-formula-1s-popularity-acceptance-in-us/
    The Miami event is totally nuts, even for F1. They could have sold it out three or four times, and there’s an estimated half a million people turning up without tickets, to watch on big screens in parks and bars. The sponsors are loving it!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,582
    Brilliant performance by Labour today


    In Wales

    If SKS fans cant see after today how shockingly poor SKS is by comparison I dont know what to say really
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic I know, but F1. Mercedes have a lot of upgrades this weekend, and are looking competitive against Ferrari and Red Bull in first practice. Could be a three way fight this weekend, the silver cars might be worth backing for a podium.

    Considering the absolute dog of a car they've had over the first four races, it's pretty startling that Mercedes are third in the constructors' championship, and Russell is fourth in the drivers. Good driving by Russell.
    I experienced Americans - on discovering I am British/European - asking me eagerly about F1 when I was there last week. Never happened before. Seems to be gaining in popularity across the Pond?

    This article affirms that notion

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellore/2022/05/06/miami-grand-prix-signifies-formula-1s-popularity-acceptance-in-us/
    Has US F1 track designs improved over the 1980s? :smile:

    This was the Caesar's Palace Car Park Track:


    Huge growth in the USA. Though GPs now turning into huge Super Bowl like events. Not a bad thing tbh - but some traditionalists will hate it
    Also appears that NASCAR may, after a period of decline, may be increasing in popularity in its homeland.

    At least that's what Marty & McGee were telling me on the radio last week via ESPN radio. They are big-time auto-racing fans, the latter in particular, a native of the North Carolina Piedmont famed for it's Tobacco Road / Thunder Road heritage.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Brilliant performance by Labour today


    In Wales

    If SKS fans cant see after today how shockingly poor SKS is by comparison I dont know what to say really

    England is more right wing than Wales though, isn't it?

    Although, current opinion polls put Labour in Wales on 41%, and Labour across the UK on... oh, 41%
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,532

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Andy Burnham definitely wins why bugger about with Philipson.

    He could have Rayners seat when she is forced to resign for holding SKS's empties
    I get you're a fan of Burnham, but I'm a bit baffled. I thought you were a bit of a Corbynite? Burnham certainly wouldn't tack to the left - he'd be as 'moderate' as Starmer, if not more so - he's never been on the left of the party. Is it just because you think he's a winner, and nothing to do with policy?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864
    edited May 6


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.

    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.

    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.

    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.

    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    I assume you mean Mark Drakeford, not Rebecca Long-Bailey....
    Why is LOTO the easiest job in the world at the moment?

    All SKS has to do is oppose. He just needs to bang on and on about sleaze, parties, lies, cronyism, corruption, cost of living. He doesn't (at the mo) have to propose any policies whatsoever.

    There is a huge, fat, flabby underbelly of a target to hurt, and a competent LOTO should have been able to inflict a whole lot of pain.

    At GE2024, the job of LOTO is more difficult. SKS will need to have some policies to fix the UK's problems (some of which are unfixable).

    And as soon as SKS is specific, there will be disappointment among some voters.

    SKS should really have been able to do a lot, lot better. Nandy or Rayner would be doing a lot better.

    Maybe even the Drake. But, like laverbread, he is a niche taste.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    She should move to the states, where we know how to spell. As in the color gray!
    I can't argue with that one. I'll give you peanut over ground nut too (though both are mistaken as it's actually a legume). The English for peanut butter used to be ground ground nuts.
    PB Pop Quiz - what is the connection between the lowly peanut and the soaring P-51 Mustang?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659
    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.

    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.

    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.

    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.

    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    I assume you mean Mark Drakeford, not Rebecca Long-Bailey....
    Why is LOTO the easiest job in the world at the moment?

    All SKS has to do is oppose. He just needs to bang on and on about sleaze, parties, lies, cronyism, corruption, cost of living. He doesn't (at the mo) have to propose any policies whatsoever.

    There is a huge, fat, flabby underbelly of a target to hurt, and a competent LOTO should have been able to inflict a whole lot of pain.

    At GE2024, the job of LOTO is more difficult. SKS will need to have some policies to fix the UK's problems (some of which are unfixable).

    And as soon as SKS is specific, there will be disappointment among some voters.

    SKS should really have been able to do a lot, lot better. Nandy or Rayner would be doing a lot better.

    Maybe even the Drake. But, like laverbread, he is a niche taste.
    You seem not to be abreast of current events judging by your list of things sks can bang on about
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    When you add in the mini-parties like Aontú the split in NI is 42% unionist, 40% nationalist, 18% other (of which three-quarters is now Alliance).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Yep, that’s it. And as you do it you think this would be easier by internet banking.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    She should move to the states, where we know how to spell. As in the color gray!
    I can't argue with that one. I'll give you peanut over ground nut too (though both are mistaken as it's actually a legume). The English for peanut butter used to be ground ground nuts.
    PB Pop Quiz - what is the connection between the lowly peanut and the soaring P-51 Mustang?
    Something to do with Jimmy Carter?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,099
    Farooq said:

    Brilliant performance by Labour today


    In Wales

    If SKS fans cant see after today how shockingly poor SKS is by comparison I dont know what to say really

    England is more right wing than Wales though, isn't it?

    Although, current opinion polls put Labour in Wales on 41%, and Labour across the UK on... oh, 41%
    You're perhaps forgetting you need to add in PC as well.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,036


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457
    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    My landlord bitches because I refuse to pay rent via on-line banking, always write a check. Virtually the only ones I write these days.

    My old bank was bought out by Chase MANY years ago. Just before it went belly up, the morons running it into the ground sent me a LARGE supply of checks with their logo.

    I'm still using them. Despite the fact that the bank they're endorsed to is long defunct; would be nice IF Chase didn't take any notice of my antique notes of hand - but sadly they do!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Date in the top right.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,985

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Date in the top right.
    And who you want to pay, lol.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,099
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Yes, you put "Carnyx" as the payee on the first line, and on the secoind line put "Fifty Thousand Pounds 61 pence", then a line through the rest of the space. And sign and date it and send it to me.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    edited May 6
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Yes, you put "Carnyx" as the payee on the first line, and on the secoind line put "Fifty Thousand Pounds 61 pence", then a line through the rest of the space. And sign and date it and send it to me.
    You see what I mean! I totally forgot the recipient and the date. Good grief, what a of of faff all that must have been.

    PS your 50k is in the post
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,099

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864
    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,099
    edited May 6
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Yes, you put "Carnyx" as the payee on the first line, and on the secoind line put "Fifty Thousand Pounds 61 pence", then a line through the rest of the space. And sign and date it and send it to me.
    You see what I mean! I totally forgot the recipient and the date. Good grief, what a of of faff all that must have been.

    PS your 50k is in the post
    I always used to - still d0 - tend to put the wrong year in the weeks immediately after Ne'erday.

    But it is a good setup in some ways as it made sure the blame was on the bank for screwing up, especially for large sums. A paper trail and a document examiner I know make a good backup.

    Electronic banking is trickier, though better than it was. The payee verification is a very belated step towards sanity.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Brilliant performance by Labour today


    In Wales

    If SKS fans cant see after today how shockingly poor SKS is by comparison I dont know what to say really

    England is more right wing than Wales though, isn't it?

    Although, current opinion polls put Labour in Wales on 41%, and Labour across the UK on... oh, 41%
    You're perhaps forgetting you need to add in PC as well.
    Ok regarding the left/right thing, but the point about 41% was that Wales is exactly on the Labour polling average. So it's probably complicated than the STARMER IZ BADD mantra BJO wants to repeat
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.

  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Andy Burnham would be terrible.

    He’s run two leadership campaigns and they’ve been a disaster.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Not that it matters because I cannot possibly see what law Keir Starmer has broken.

    If anyone could explain please do.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473

    Is the media / Tory MPs just going to ignore the current situation and pretend it’s all based on “economic circumstance”

    Before the results, I thought losing 150 was seen as a bad night. Creeping toward 500 and the lesson will be “stick with Boris because Labour hasn’t made much progress”. Right.

    I vaguely felt 200-300 was in the range that could be argued as reasonable losses, after so long in government. But that's not really based on anything but gut feel. Wales seems to have been particularly bad.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,185


    Iain Martin
    @iainmartin1
    ·
    1h
    The Tories had better hope Starmer refuses to resign.

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1522638593826635782

    The political benefits to Boris of Starmer also being potentially fingered by the law are massively underestimated.

    It essentially guarantees Boris's political survival.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,493


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.

    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.

    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.

    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.

    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    I assume you mean Mark Drakeford, not Rebecca Long-Bailey....
    Why is LOTO the easiest job in the world at the moment?

    All SKS has to do is oppose. He just needs to bang on and on about sleaze, parties, lies, cronyism, corruption, cost of living. He doesn't (at the mo) have to propose any policies whatsoever.

    There is a huge, fat, flabby underbelly of a target to hurt, and a competent LOTO should have been able to inflict a whole lot of pain.

    At GE2024, the job of LOTO is more difficult. SKS will need to have some policies to fix the UK's problems (some of which are unfixable).

    And as soon as SKS is specific, there will be disappointment among some voters.

    SKS should really have been able to do a lot, lot better. Nandy or Rayner would be doing a lot better.

    Maybe even the Drake. But, like laverbread, he is a niche taste.
    Starmer has had a disastrous day today. He has let Johnson off the hook. But Drakey? A man who makes Andrew RT Davies look like Churchill.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,155

    Andy Burnham would be terrible.

    He’s run two leadership campaigns and they’ve been a disaster.

    He would have more appeal beyond London to the North and Midlands than Starmer does however.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    Nonsense - we need lots of physical books for impressive online backdrops for work.

    Of course you can order books by the foot for that purpose.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    Nonsense - we need lots of physical books for impressive online backdrops for work.

    Of course you can order books by the foot for that purpose.
    If it's for a backdrop, you need them at eye level. By the foot won't appear on camera.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,048
    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Still use them for business purposes but not personal.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659

    Not that it matters because I cannot possibly see what law Keir Starmer has broken.

    If anyone could explain please do.

    The allegation is a social gathering with people outside your household. Work being over. They will say it was a work event. As did the Tories. The met judged otherwise. Durham police may well say nothing to see. They may not. But you do not know the truth as you were not there. At least one labour staffer thinks they did something that would merit a fpn (guido, so hold your nose).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645


    Iain Martin
    @iainmartin1
    ·
    1h
    The Tories had better hope Starmer refuses to resign.

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1522638593826635782

    The political benefits to Boris of Starmer also being potentially fingered by the law are massively underestimated.

    It essentially guarantees Boris's political survival.
    Until GE 2024 of course...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,698
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,185
    @JohnO sorry to hear about your electoral defeat.

    Politics isn't fair sometimes. Commiserations.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640
    algarkirk said:

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.

    Catholic =/=> good
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,645
    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    That's madness.
    Now I think of it, I haven't even had a chequebook since I was in my early 20s or so. I don't think I'm even 100% I'd know how to write one. What do you do, write the amount in figures and words "...only", and sign it... anything else?
    Date in the top right.
    And who you want to pay, lol.
    Of course :)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    The wife, a prolific reader, uses a kindle as there is a vast stock of free/cheap books.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,640

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Audiobooks for me. Infinitely portable. Good for all that travel I've not not for the last two years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,458

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Re: Starmer, am starting to think that his biggest problem as a political party leader, is the fact that he is first and foremost a top-flight lawyer?

    A type that can often rise high in politics, but who rarely make the top rank. For example, Lord Birkenhead and Sir Stafford Cripps.

    They tend to think, what makes sense to lawyers will also make sense to voters. And proceed accordingly . . .

    Clement Attlee, Tony Blair...
    I do NOT mean lawyering in Parliament, I mean in the courts.
    Starmer was never a rock star level advocate anyway. DPP is administration, not actually doing it
    Is that true?

    I had a (delightful) lunch with a retired Old Bailey judge last summer in his sunny garden in Burnham on Crouch. Very nice chap, quite a random event

    Anyway he said that Starmer was one of the best prosecutors he had seen in his career, if not THE best
    He was never a prosecutor
    He was a barrister though, right? So it's far from impossible that it was Starmer for the Prosecution at some point.
    I’m sure that the lawyer meant advocate.

    Starmer specialised in suing the government I believe. He didn’t work for the CPS until he was DPP.
    I may be wrong, but the CPS decides who to prosecute (and has their own in house barristers), but they also put an awful lot of it out to chambers who specialise in criminal law. And going back to the start of Starmer's career, pretty much all of the prosecuting was done by traditional criminal members of the bar.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,755

    Not that it matters because I cannot possibly see what law Keir Starmer has broken.

    If anyone could explain please do.

    He’s got charisma and intelligence but I find his northern shoulder-chip and grievance language a bit irritating and I expect a few others in the South of the country would too.

    I’m impressed with Wes Streeting. Imagine him as PM and Pete Buttigieg as US president. Two hugely impressive gay politicians leading major G7 countries.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.

    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.

    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.

    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.

    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    I assume you mean Mark Drakeford, not Rebecca Long-Bailey....
    Why is LOTO the easiest job in the world at the moment?

    All SKS has to do is oppose. He just needs to bang on and on about sleaze, parties, lies, cronyism, corruption, cost of living. He doesn't (at the mo) have to propose any policies whatsoever.

    There is a huge, fat, flabby underbelly of a target to hurt, and a competent LOTO should have been able to inflict a whole lot of pain.

    At GE2024, the job of LOTO is more difficult. SKS will need to have some policies to fix the UK's problems (some of which are unfixable).

    And as soon as SKS is specific, there will be disappointment among some voters.

    SKS should really have been able to do a lot, lot better. Nandy or Rayner would be doing a lot better.

    Maybe even the Drake. But, like laverbread, he is a niche taste.
    Starmer has had a disastrous day today. He has let Johnson off the hook. But Drakey? A man who makes Andrew RT Davies look like Churchill.
    Well, of course, there is magic there.

    The Drake looks like a nerdy academic with few social skills and a terrible dress sense.

    Come elections, a magnificent transformation takes place.

    I too can scarcely believe that the Drake has done better than Carwyn & Rhodri.

    But, he has.

    It shows there is always hope for geeky academics with glasses and high socks and bad ties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    edited May 6
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Audiobooks for me. Infinitely portable. Good for all that travel I've not not for the last two years.
    All three for me. Audiobooks for out and about, kindle for travel and for cheap quick selection of new titles (lots of first books in a series on there), and physical for general use and bragging purposes.

    Crazy thing is I've read hundreds in the last few years yet my unread piles remain the same level at all times, such is life.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,755
    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    They’ve played that one repeatedly in recent years. It’s insulting everyone’s intelligence.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552


    Iain Martin
    @iainmartin1
    ·
    1h
    The Tories had better hope Starmer refuses to resign.

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1522638593826635782

    The political benefits to Boris of Starmer also being potentially fingered by the law are massively underestimated.

    It essentially guarantees Boris's political survival.
    No one knows what’s going to happen .

    What if he gets a few more FPNs . I certainly wouldn’t be cracking open the champagne yet if I was in no 10.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,297
    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    It means what most of his utterances do - that he takes us all for fools.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,862

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    For a start, they could have chosen not to elect a dimwitted reactionary with racist views in 2015.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457
    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,461
    Following up on the morning's comments versus the Britain Elects prediction:

    Roger said:

    This New Statesman estimate from a few days ago looks like it might turn out to be close

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1521957860887912448

    I don't think so, unless the remaining results are wildly different to the last ones.

    With half the Councils in the Lib Dems have already gained nearly twice that estimate, while Labour are off track.

    The Tory figure might be close at the end, but the seats seem to be going yellow not red.
    Good point. Counting up the England plus London seats, when the counting in England is done, they were pointing at:
    Con -101 (currently -122)
    Lab +19 (currently +34)
    LD +33 (currently +59)
    Grn +30 (currently +23)

    So with half counted, Tories are already significantly worse than that prediction, Labour better, LD nearly double the total prediction, and Greens approaching it and not bad for the halfway point.

    I think the Baxter MRP skewed expectations a bit.

    With only Tower Hamlets and Croydon left to declare in England, and Vale of Glamorgan in Wales (with 97 Labour and 54 Conservative seats being defended between the three of them), and with all three countries together, the comparison is now:

    Conservatives: prediction -206, current score -486
    Labour: prediction +147, current score +137
    Lib Dems: prediction +34, current score +222
    Greens: prediction +35, current score +84
    SNP: prediction -12, current score +22
    Plaid Cymru: prediction -14, current score -9

    Labour fared actually considerably better in England than predicted (+52 vs +19 predicted) and noticeably better in Wales (+65 vs +41 predicted) but the stumbling block was Scotland (+20 vs +84 predicted)

    The Tories were far worse in England (-341 vs -101 predicted) and Wales (-82 vs -22 predicted) and not quite as bad in Scotland (-63 vs -83 predicted).

    The Lib Dems were "Winning Here!" all around. England (+191 vs +33 predicted), Scotland (+20 vs +3 predicted) and Wales (+11 vs -2 predicted)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    ydoethur said:

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    For a start, they could have chosen not to elect a dimwitted reactionary with racist views in 2015.
    Definitely some wasted years for the party, to put it mildly.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Re: Starmer, am starting to think that his biggest problem as a political party leader, is the fact that he is first and foremost a top-flight lawyer?

    A type that can often rise high in politics, but who rarely make the top rank. For example, Lord Birkenhead and Sir Stafford Cripps.

    They tend to think, what makes sense to lawyers will also make sense to voters. And proceed accordingly . . .

    Clement Attlee, Tony Blair...
    I do NOT mean lawyering in Parliament, I mean in the courts.
    Starmer was never a rock star level advocate anyway. DPP is administration, not actually doing it
    Is that true?

    I had a (delightful) lunch with a retired Old Bailey judge last summer in his sunny garden in Burnham on Crouch. Very nice chap, quite a random event

    Anyway he said that Starmer was one of the best prosecutors he had seen in his career, if not THE best
    He was never a prosecutor
    He was a barrister though, right? So it's far from impossible that it was Starmer for the Prosecution at some point.
    I’m sure that the lawyer meant advocate.

    Starmer specialised in suing the government I believe. He didn’t work for the CPS until he was DPP.
    Every word of that post is gibberish. Advocate does not mean what you think it means.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473

    Following up on the morning's comments versus the Britain Elects prediction:

    Roger said:

    This New Statesman estimate from a few days ago looks like it might turn out to be close

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1521957860887912448

    I don't think so, unless the remaining results are wildly different to the last ones.

    With half the Councils in the Lib Dems have already gained nearly twice that estimate, while Labour are off track.

    The Tory figure might be close at the end, but the seats seem to be going yellow not red.
    Good point. Counting up the England plus London seats, when the counting in England is done, they were pointing at:
    Con -101 (currently -122)
    Lab +19 (currently +34)
    LD +33 (currently +59)
    Grn +30 (currently +23)

    So with half counted, Tories are already significantly worse than that prediction, Labour better, LD nearly double the total prediction, and Greens approaching it and not bad for the halfway point.

    I think the Baxter MRP skewed expectations a bit.

    With only Tower Hamlets and Croydon left to declare in England, and Vale of Glamorgan in Wales (with 97 Labour and 54 Conservative seats being defended between the three of them), and with all three countries together, the comparison is now:

    Conservatives: prediction -206, current score -486
    Labour: prediction +147, current score +137
    Lib Dems: prediction +34, current score +222
    Greens: prediction +35, current score +84
    SNP: prediction -12, current score +22
    Plaid Cymru: prediction -14, current score -9

    Labour fared actually considerably better in England than predicted (+52 vs +19 predicted) and noticeably better in Wales (+65 vs +41 predicted) but the stumbling block was Scotland (+20 vs +84 predicted)

    The Tories were far worse in England (-341 vs -101 predicted) and Wales (-82 vs -22 predicted) and not quite as bad in Scotland (-63 vs -83 predicted).

    The Lib Dems were "Winning Here!" all around. England (+191 vs +33 predicted), Scotland (+20 vs +3 predicted) and Wales (+11 vs -2 predicted)
    I know some local LDs who feel like they are unlucky with the election cycle. Had an election in 2017 during the height of the Maygasm, then another in 2021 when the Tories were still holding up well. Come 2025, possibly out of power, they might be recovering as well.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,784
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Audiobooks for me. Infinitely portable. Good for all that travel I've not not for the last two years.
    All three for me. Audiobooks for out and about, kindle for travel and for cheap quick selection of new titles (lots of first books in a series on there), and physical for general use and bragging purposes.

    Crazy thing is I've read hundreds in the last few years yet my unread piles remain the same level at all times, such is life.
    Strangely I can recall where and sometimes when I've learned something new from a physical book, but not so from a book read off a screen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    It means what most of his utterances do - that he takes us all for fools.
    It's obvious nonsense, but I do find entertainment when politicians cannot even pull together coherent nonsense. It falls apart immediately because it just makes no sense, when even most rubbish can hold up if you brazen it out.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Kindle app on tablet and phone in my case
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864
    ydoethur said:

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    For a start, they could have chosen not to elect a dimwitted reactionary with racist views in 2015.
    I personally don't think Corbyn is racist (though he has some antisemitic friends).

    I think Labour should have thought harder about what Corbyn got right with his unexpected advances in 2017, rather than just what Corbyn got wrong.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,232

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    Not sure there was a better one, and he's certainly done well but if this matter goes badly from here he could be in difficulties. That would certainly be good for the Tory Party because it is far from obvious there is a better alternative in the wings for Labour.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576
    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    Yes. Another logical takeaway from this verbiage is that until we all started voting yesterday it may have been clear to Boris that the voters wanted the government to focus on issues that didn't matter to them.

    Hardly any retail political speak has any actual meaning at all. In general it is only meaningful if it involves choices between actual and specified alternatives. This is uncommon.

    It is curious that 'to govern is to choose' and it is that very thing which is most well hidden.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659

    ydoethur said:

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    For a start, they could have chosen not to elect a dimwitted reactionary with racist views in 2015.
    I personally don't think Corbyn is racist (though he has some antisemitic friends).

    I think Labour should have thought harder about what Corbyn got right with his unexpected advances in 2017, rather than just what Corbyn got wrong.
    I don’t think he is racist, but I think he holds anti Semitic views. He doesn’t see that as racist, because.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,859
    What's happening in Croydon? Website says zero votes so far.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,698

    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.

    That sums up this ludicrous voting system. What a farce.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 882
    If Starmer is feeling Machiavellian he should right now promise to resign if given a FPN.

    Gives the police the willies. Nails Johnson. Got to take risks if you want the top job.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.

    That sums up this ludicrous voting system. What a farce.
    You are welcome to your opinion. Personally do NOT share it.

    What's ridiculous, is having fewer than one-third of voters actually voting, nominating the winner of the Republican primary for US Senator in Ohio.

    Plus similar minority "majorities" in your FPTP elections.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,371

    ydoethur said:

    Dadge said:


    My view ... Leader of the Opposition facing Boris falls into the category of the fucking Easiest Job in the World.
    So, +54 seats in England ... that is pretty darned unimpressive.
    The Drake got +66 in Wales alone, with far fewer seats up for grabs.
    It confirms my feeling that Labour made the wrong choice of Leader in 2020.
    @bigjohnowls has been proved right.

    What? You all think RLB would have been more successful? Keep taking the tablets.

    Far too much breath has been wasted about Starmer. He was a good choice, he's doing a reasonable job, and he'll probably do well in 2024. It's tough going because of the numpty vote trending Tory, hence the results yesterday in England weren't a landslide, but Labour still beat the Tories handsomely, echoing the national opinion polls.
    There were other choices Labour could have made.
    For a start, they could have chosen not to elect a dimwitted reactionary with racist views in 2015.
    I personally don't think Corbyn is racist (though he has some antisemitic friends).

    I think Labour should have thought harder about what Corbyn got right with his unexpected advances in 2017, rather than just what Corbyn got wrong.
    I don’t think he is racist, but I think he holds anti Semitic views. He doesn’t see that as racist, because.
    The definition of antisemitism changed.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,232
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Re: Starmer, am starting to think that his biggest problem as a political party leader, is the fact that he is first and foremost a top-flight lawyer?

    A type that can often rise high in politics, but who rarely make the top rank. For example, Lord Birkenhead and Sir Stafford Cripps.

    They tend to think, what makes sense to lawyers will also make sense to voters. And proceed accordingly . . .

    Clement Attlee, Tony Blair...
    I do NOT mean lawyering in Parliament, I mean in the courts.
    Starmer was never a rock star level advocate anyway. DPP is administration, not actually doing it
    Is that true?

    I had a (delightful) lunch with a retired Old Bailey judge last summer in his sunny garden in Burnham on Crouch. Very nice chap, quite a random event

    Anyway he said that Starmer was one of the best prosecutors he had seen in his career, if not THE best
    He was never a prosecutor
    He was a barrister though, right? So it's far from impossible that it was Starmer for the Prosecution at some point.
    I’m sure that the lawyer meant advocate.

    Starmer specialised in suing the government I believe. He didn’t work for the CPS until he was DPP.
    I may be wrong, but the CPS decides who to prosecute (and has their own in house barristers), but they also put an awful lot of it out to chambers who specialise in criminal law. And going back to the start of Starmer's career, pretty much all of the prosecuting was done by traditional criminal members of the bar.
    Eh?

    Is it possible for criminals to be members of the bar?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    edited May 6

    If Starmer is feeling Machiavellian he should right now promise to resign if given a FPN.

    Gives the police the willies. Nails Johnson. Got to take risks if you want the top job.

    Unless of course he knows he's guilty and he will get a FPN... In that case it'd be a stupid thing to do! ;)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Re: Starmer, am starting to think that his biggest problem as a political party leader, is the fact that he is first and foremost a top-flight lawyer?

    A type that can often rise high in politics, but who rarely make the top rank. For example, Lord Birkenhead and Sir Stafford Cripps.

    They tend to think, what makes sense to lawyers will also make sense to voters. And proceed accordingly . . .

    Clement Attlee, Tony Blair...
    I do NOT mean lawyering in Parliament, I mean in the courts.
    Starmer was never a rock star level advocate anyway. DPP is administration, not actually doing it
    Is that true?

    I had a (delightful) lunch with a retired Old Bailey judge last summer in his sunny garden in Burnham on Crouch. Very nice chap, quite a random event

    Anyway he said that Starmer was one of the best prosecutors he had seen in his career, if not THE best
    He was never a prosecutor
    He was a barrister though, right? So it's far from impossible that it was Starmer for the Prosecution at some point.
    I’m sure that the lawyer meant advocate.

    Starmer specialised in suing the government I believe. He didn’t work for the CPS until he was DPP.
    I may be wrong, but the CPS decides who to prosecute (and has their own in house barristers), but they also put an awful lot of it out to chambers who specialise in criminal law. And going back to the start of Starmer's career, pretty much all of the prosecuting was done by traditional criminal members of the bar.
    Eh?

    Is it possible for criminals to be members of the bar?
    Reminds me of how, shortly after statehood, Okalahomans changed the name of the state "Criminal Court of Appeals" to "Court of Criminal Appeals".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,633
    algarkirk said:

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.

    I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.

    Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    Tone used to say more or less exactly the same thing when his locals got rough...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    What's happening in Croydon? Website says zero votes so far.

    https://insidecroydon.com/2022/05/04/kerswells-election-count-will-get-off-to-a-very-slow-start/

    Another decision by cash-strapped Croydon Council is responsible for the end of yet another tradition: Inside Croydon’s unrivalled and extensive dusk-to-dawn election night coverage of the count.

    That’s because Katherine Kerswell, the council chief exec and the returning officer for tomorrow’s borough-wide elections, has decided not to begin counting the votes until 5.30pm… on Friday.

    No official reason has been offered by Kerswell for this decision, although Fisher’s Folly insiders suggest it is because the venue for the count, Trinity School, the £20,000 per pupil per year private school in Shirley, needs to use its sports halls that have been assigned for the election count during the school day on Friday. . . .
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 882
    GIN1138 said:

    If Starmer is feeling Machiavellian he should right now promise to resign if given a FPN.

    Gives the police the willies. Nails Johnson. Got to take risks if you want the top job.

    Unless of course he knows he's guilty and he will get a FPN... In that case it'd be a stupid thing to do! ;)
    Might help shift the odds though. Do Durham constabulary really want to be balls deep in high politics?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,633
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Audiobooks for me. Infinitely portable. Good for all that travel I've not not for the last two years.
    All three for me. Audiobooks for out and about, kindle for travel and for cheap quick selection of new titles (lots of first books in a series on there), and physical for general use and bragging purposes.

    Crazy thing is I've read hundreds in the last few years yet my unread piles remain the same level at all times, such is life.
    Me too, I buy faster than I can read.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,075
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.

    I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.

    Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
    Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,604

    If Starmer is feeling Machiavellian he should right now promise to resign if given a FPN.

    Gives the police the willies. Nails Johnson. Got to take risks if you want the top job.

    That would be quite clever. Its not like he can't be reinstated to one of the top jobs after the minimum Mandelsonian two minutes of dignified contrition on the back benches anyway.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551

    GIN1138 said:

    If Starmer is feeling Machiavellian he should right now promise to resign if given a FPN.

    Gives the police the willies. Nails Johnson. Got to take risks if you want the top job.

    Unless of course he knows he's guilty and he will get a FPN... In that case it'd be a stupid thing to do! ;)
    Might help shift the odds though. Do Durham constabulary really want to be balls deep in high politics?
    They should just follow the evidence wherever it leads... If they find SKS is guilty of criminality he should face the full weight of the law, irrespective of the political fall out...
  • pingping Posts: 3,203
    edited May 6
    Great news for the just-about-managings;

    Wholesale gas prices down 20% today

    £1.31/therm.

    We’re going to start seeing domestic fixes below the cap, being offered soon, I recon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,698

    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.

    That sums up this ludicrous voting system. What a farce.
    You are welcome to your opinion. Personally do NOT share it.

    What's ridiculous, is having fewer than one-third of voters actually voting, nominating the winner of the Republican primary for US Senator in Ohio.

    Plus similar minority "majorities" in your FPTP elections.
    Oh, I'm no fan of FPTP. I want PR. But a sensible form of PR, not this bugger's muddle.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,604
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    nico679 said:

    I tend to think Starmer thought he hadn’t broken any lockdown rules as it would be pretty daft to go after Johnson in the manner he has.

    There are so many moving pieces to what might happen over the next few months before the summer recess .

    Does Johnson get anymore FPNs . How restricted are Labour now in criticizing him if he does .

    What happens with the Sue Grey report .

    For Johnson he should want any more FPNs and the Sue Grey report rushed out before Durham police make a decision on Starmer .

    For Starmer he needs Durham to report quickly .

    If he receives a FPN he will have to resign , but do this in a way to cause the most damage to the Tories and Johnson .

    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY, not Grey
    It must be very tiresome for her to write cheques.
    I can't remember the last time I wrote a cheque! Not in the last 5 years, I think.
    Literally never written a cheque. I'm in my 40s.
    Clearly you’ve never been a member of a small club/society... the last bastion of the cheque book. My allotment still requires payment by cheque for the annual rent. The only cheque I write, every year.
    Same here: my use of cheques tends to be that purpose: one-offs such as ordering books from local history societies, perhaps, more than annual subs.
    Reading physical books! Another dying art.
    I thought everyone had dumped their Kindle in a drawer and reverted to books?
    Kindle app on tablet and phone in my case
    That's very grand, I keep my phone in my pocket.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,473
    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    I do like when political leaders suffer a loss, and have to scrabble for explanations that do not involve them doing anything or, naturally, being replaced. Take this as per BBC

    Johnson said he took responsibility for the results, adding that it was clear voters wanted his government to focus on issues that mattered to them

    I mean, what an intriguing takeaway. Why would you interpret people voting for your opponents as a clear sign they want you to focus on issues that matter to them? And hasn't the government, like any government, been insisting for years that it has already been focusing on things that matter to the public whilst the opposition are not? So is that saying the government should do what the opposition has been asking? If not, what does it mean? Since if the public want the government to focus on issues that matter to them, it means it is not at the moment with the policies it has been undertaking - yet I bet they will double down on most of those issues.

    Tone used to say more or less exactly the same thing when his locals got rough...
    Which is why I phrased it as when 'political leaders' suffer a loss. The details may change, some be worse than others, but it is political, not partisan, behaviour.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    One good thing to come out of partygate and beergate is that I doubt another government will ever dare implement a national lockdown this side of 2100...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    Classic Sun headline tomorrow lol! 😂
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,698

    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.

    That sums up this ludicrous voting system. What a farce.
    You are welcome to your opinion. Personally do NOT share it.

    What's ridiculous, is having fewer than one-third of voters actually voting, nominating the winner of the Republican primary for US Senator in Ohio.

    Plus similar minority "majorities" in your FPTP elections.
    Oh, I'm no fan of FPTP. I want PR. But a sensible form of PR, not this bugger's muddle.
    You prefer a list system? At least with STV aka RCV it's the VOTERS who determine which candidates win NOT a bunch of hacks in a (non)smoke-filled room somewhere.
    As long as the candidate order on the list is decided by party members in a primary then I'm happy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,659
    GIN1138 said:

    Classic Sun headline tomorrow lol! 😂

    And it is? Or a link?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,582
    Mark Drakeford says its been a good day for Labour in Wales

    Wonder why he has been so successful when SKS has done so poorly outside of London!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,621
    My MP decoded to today respond to the Boris breaking the law/fixed penalty notice story with this (excerpt).

    "Rather than prolong debate on a subject which I am sure everyone has now made up their mind, I hope the fact that today Durham Police announced that they have opened an investigation into Sir Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner’s beer and curry party means that everyone can draw a line under this."
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 606

    GIN1138 said:

    Classic Sun headline tomorrow lol! 😂

    And it is? Or a link?
    https://news.sky.com/story/saturdays-national-newspaper-front-pages-12427754
    Are you going to korma quietly, Sir?
    Cops probe Keir’s Covid curry
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,985
    edited May 6
    NeilVW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Classic Sun headline tomorrow lol! 😂

    And it is? Or a link?
    https://news.sky.com/story/saturdays-national-newspaper-front-pages-12427754
    Are you going to korma quietly, Sir?
    Cops probe Keir’s Covid curry
    I prefer “Backed into a Korma”, which I’ve also seen from an excerpt of the Sun.

    https://twitter.com/Bren4Bassetlaw/status/1521742717382012928/photo/1
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.

    Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.

    I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.

    Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
    Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
    6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,457

    Just took gander at the count details for Strangford where after 5 counts, 2 of 5 elected: 1 Alliance (Kellie Armstrong) & 1 DUP (Michelle McIlveen).

    Count 6 is (I believe) distribution of McIlveen's surplus (1,533) and perhaps also Armstrong's (204).

    At any rate, next DUPer in line (Harry Harvey) is only -671 away from achieving quota (6,811) and thus looks a good bet to win the 3rd seat either this round or next.

    Leaving one candidate each for UUP, TUV, SDLP and Alliance vying for the final 2 seats.

    The UUPer (Mike Nesbitt) is over 500 closer to quota than the TUVer (Stephen Cooper) so reckon the former gets 4th seat. Note that the SDLP and Alliance hopefuls are way behind TUV, but neck-and-neck between themselves.

    So will be pretty tight for final seat, chances of the TUVer might end up depending on whether the SDLPer stays ahead of the Alliance (now by +75 votes) or falls behind after next couple counts. With Alliance maybe having better shot of pipping the "true" Unionist at the final post.

    That sums up this ludicrous voting system. What a farce.
    You are welcome to your opinion. Personally do NOT share it.

    What's ridiculous, is having fewer than one-third of voters actually voting, nominating the winner of the Republican primary for US Senator in Ohio.

    Plus similar minority "majorities" in your FPTP elections.
    Oh, I'm no fan of FPTP. I want PR. But a sensible form of PR, not this bugger's muddle.
    You prefer a list system? At least with STV aka RCV it's the VOTERS who determine which candidates win NOT a bunch of hacks in a (non)smoke-filled room somewhere.
    As long as the candidate order on the list is decided by party members in a primary then I'm happy.
    Not sure that's any improvement at all over STV. In fact, am certain that it is NOT.
This discussion has been closed.