The March 2017 NI assembly elections gave 11 DUP firsts an 7 SF and, save Lady Hernon, that reflected exactly at GE 17.
On that basis, I make it we'd be looking at 10 SF, 5 DUP and 3 Alliance, although some very marginal and subject to FPTP specific tactical voting, at a GE.
Every little helps, and that'd be 1.5 seats closer to a Labour government, by replacing 3 DUP with 3 abstentions.
Personally am NOT sure that historic Sinn Fein position of absentionism re: British Parliament is good for all eternity.
After all, they've already swallowed joining the Northern Ireland Assembly. My guess is that, the votes they'd lose by entering Westminster would likely be MORE than offset, by votes they'd gain on the other end. Esp. since they'd then have the greatest theater in the world in which to enact whatever agitprop and/or serious messaging - regardless of whether or not their votes were propping up the government or not.
A bridge tooooo far? Farther even that the Boris Bridge! BUT stranger things happen in & from Hibernia.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
I posted up thread what the allegation is. It looks like they crossed the line from getting food during work into a late night social. No real crime except in the bizarre Covid world where you still couldn’t gather inside with people outside your household. At least one labour aide has admitted that they would have been fined if Durham police had not initially declined to investigate. We’ll see. If, and it’s a big if, Starmer does get a FPN, it takes the wind from his sails a touch. Anyway, time to move onto the col crisis, something far more important.
Mark Drakeford says its been a good day for Labour in Wales
Wonder why he has been so successful when SKS has done so poorly outside of London!
Is Outside London a country now? Is Outside London a secessionist territory of England?
London isn’t a real place, and it’s people aren’t real people. Nothing that anyone in London thinks matters electorally, or at least that’s the theory.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
STRANGFORD - count 7 concluded; count 6 elected DUPer Harry Harvey, and HIS surplus has just been redistributed. Leaving UUPer Nesbit just -340 shy of quota, and over 400 ahead of the TUVer. Below them are SDLP candidate just 46 votes ahead of the last-place Allianceite (?) who has been eliminated. These vote should boost the SDLPer considerably BUT will it be enough to beat out the TUVer for the 5th and last seat?
Someone suggested before that Keir should announce he will resign if he is found guilty of any offences by Durham.
That seems a decent strategy given this deranged new six week delay which seems designed *specifically* to give Boris wriggle room.
Nah, puts tactics before strategy. He can't determine whether he'll get a FPN or not. If he does, he pays up - it's embarassing, but he's not lied to Parliament. If he doesn't fine. Either way nobody's going to care in 2024.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Took the Met long enough to decide seven minutes singing happy birthday without food or drink was worthy of a FPN. Several hours with booze and food might take a while.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Starmer's problem is the beer.
Photo of beer in hand laughing.
If you throw a beer into the mix then it is no longer a "work" situation in most people's reckoning in this country - it has just become a social event.
My father worked in germany in engineering in late 60s in defence industry and the germans would sit at their desks drawing diagrams with a beer in hand he says. Different culture.
What's happening in Croydon? Website says zero votes so far.
Counting the mayoral vote before they start on council seats I heard.
Incidentally I didn't get elected to the joy of my better half but did see the Independence for Chislehurst movement wipe out the local tories 2k majority. They hope to secede from bromley and reunite with Sidcup and rejoin Kent.
Croydon didn't start counting ANYTHING until 5pm Friday
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
I still have some sympathy with the idea that it’s too early for policy.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
You have been naive at best in your attempts to bat this away, but Durham detectives are following the same procedures as the MET which is a written process no doubt with legal advice and as I understand it the questionnaires themselves are required to be returned in 28 days
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
I still have some sympathy with the idea that it’s too early for policy.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
Yes, totally agree. The disconnect is between cities (labour) and towns (conservative). I want to know what Starmer wants to do in power. I hope he is not Brown Mark 2. Brown spent so long getting to the top he had nothing left when he reached it.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Do you remember the pressure the Met were under? They were even sued to try to force them to investigate goings on in No 10.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 22m Often the way. Takes almost 24 hours for the true picture to emerge with local elections. Properly dire set of results for the Tories.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
That’s easy. The ‘event’ was deemed illegal, therefore anyone there was guilty, no matter how long they were there.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
That’s easy. The ‘event’ was deemed illegal, therefore anyone there was guilty, no matter how long they were there.
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
I still have some sympathy with the idea that it’s too early for policy.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
Yes, totally agree. The disconnect is between cities (labour) and towns (conservative). I want to know what Starmer wants to do in power. I hope he is not Brown Mark 2. Brown spent so long getting to the top he had nothing left when he reached it.
I am not a Labour voter. I am not a Keir fan.
But I am desperate to see them win because I think Boris and the Tories have driven the country into a swamp of corruption of economic mismanagement.
Personally I fear you are right about the Brown analogy. I don’t get the sense that Labour is that interested in policy (even accounting for rational forebearance at this point in the cycle).
The only person pumping out interesting policy ideas is Tony Blair via his Institute but I don’t see it picked up by Labour types on Twitter.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
To be honest I feel for the police seeing as the rules were basically ridiculously impossible to be sure about and frankly ludicrous. Two lasses got fined for taking a coffee for a walk in Derbyshire.
I mean, how many people who missed their relatives funeral or could not hold their dying sister's hand at the hospice would now go back and say 'sod it, family is more important' knowing the worse was a FPN and anyway the chief rule makers were all on the lash during the whole crisis?
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
I still have some sympathy with the idea that it’s too early for policy.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
Yes, totally agree. The disconnect is between cities (labour) and towns (conservative). I want to know what Starmer wants to do in power. I hope he is not Brown Mark 2. Brown spent so long getting to the top he had nothing left when he reached it.
I am not a Labour voter. I am not a Keir fan.
But I am desperate to see them win because I think Boris and the Tories have driven the country into a swamp of corruption of economic mismanagement.
Personally I fear you are right about the Brown analogy. I don’t get the sense that Labour is that interested in policy (even accounting for rational forebearance at this point in the cycle).
The only person pumping out interesting policy ideas is Tony Blair via his Institute but I don’t see it picked up by Labour types on Twitter.
The country desperately needs a change, it’s just that Starmer may not be the driving force that’s needed.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
Yes, the charge against Starmer is not "breech of ill drawn up and probably unnecessarily draconian regulations" but "hypocrisy" for demanding of others something he doesn't think should apply to himself. "One rule for them, another for the rest of us" as someone never tires of piously intoning.....
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
That’s easy. The ‘event’ was deemed illegal, therefore anyone there was guilty, no matter how long they were there.
Based on regulations promulgated with great fanfare by . . . who was it?
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Do you remember the pressure the Met were under? They were even sued to try to force them to investigate goings on in No 10.
Yes and quite right as there was decent evidence of serial flaunting of Covid rules at the heart of No.10.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Do you remember the pressure the Met were under? They were even sued to try to force them to investigate goings on in No 10.
Yes and quite right as there was decent evidence of serial flaunting of Covid rules at the heart of No.10.
This was when there was just the photo in the garden. Not too dissimilar from the photo of Starmer. What we know now is irrelevant, they were under pressure then to investigate.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
To be honest I feel for the police seeing as the rules were basically ridiculously impossible to be sure about and frankly ludicrous. Two lasses got fined for taking a coffee for a walk in Derbyshire.
I mean, how many people who missed their relatives funeral or could not hold their dying sister's hand at the hospice would now go back and say 'sod it, family is more important' knowing the worse was a FPN and anyway the chief rule makers were all on the lash during the whole crisis?
Which is why I would grant am amnesty to ALL who fined and reimburse them. The rules were well intentioned, but ridiculous. And the police in many instances failed to cover themselves in glory.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Starmer's problem is the beer.
Photo of beer in hand laughing.
If you throw a beer into the mix then it is no longer a "work" situation in most people's reckoning in this country - it has just become a social event.
My father worked in germany in engineering in late 60s in defence industry and the germans would sit at their desks drawing diagrams with a beer in hand he says. Different culture.
But that is not the UK view.
Really? Lots of people drink at work here, from time to time. Particularly when working a long day. It’s not as rare as you imply.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
What the Met were thinking when they gave him an FPN for that is beyond me.
To be honest I feel for the police seeing as the rules were basically ridiculously impossible to be sure about and frankly ludicrous. Two lasses got fined for taking a coffee for a walk in Derbyshire.
I mean, how many people who missed their relatives funeral or could not hold their dying sister's hand at the hospice would now go back and say 'sod it, family is more important' knowing the worse was a FPN and anyway the chief rule makers were all on the lash during the whole crisis?
Which is why I would grant am amnesty to ALL who fined and reimburse them. The rules were well intentioned, but ridiculous. And the police in many instances failed to cover themselves in glory.
But now they can't do that, because it would look like they want to avoid punishments for themselves.
My first chance to comment on the local elections - a very strong series of results for the LDs with nearly 200 gains in England. The victories in Gosport, Somerset, Hull and Woking very much the big prizes but plenty of other encouraging results such as St Albans.
In London, the three Councils were all held with big majorities in Richmond and Kingston and control retained in Sutton. Big progress in Merton and nice to see the party back on Bromley with five new Councillors.
London, as ever, produced a varied collection of results. The Conservatives lost Westminster, Barnet and Wandsworth but won Harrow from Labour. Progress also for the Greens who ended Labour's monopoly in Newham and won seats elsewhere.
My final observation for now is no one needs to create or organise anti-Conservative electoral pacts - the electorate will work it out for themselves. Whether the beneficiary is Labour, LD, Green or Independents/Residents, local voters can quickly work out which option fulfils the objective of giving the local Conservative a real kicking and if there's no Conservative, the local council itself is in the firing line.
Final final thought, the 2023 round will be the same as those from 2019 when the Conservatives were Knopflered (in dire straits) losing 1,300 seats but still winning 3,500. The LDs gained 700 in a night but that means a lot to defend and it seems implausible even now we can see further widespread Conservative losses.
Final x 3 thought - only Runnymede and Reigate & Banstead of the Borough/District Councils in Surrey remain in Conservative control. The other nine are all controlled by various coalitions of LDs, Residents and other Independents.
Italy has detained "Putin's yacht" the Scheherazade. The late night announcement comes two days after the New York Times (@gaia_pianigiani and me) wrote about how the $700 million yacht was getting ready to set sail, avoiding sanctions.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
Yes, the charge against Starmer is not "breech of ill drawn up and probably unnecessarily draconian regulations" but "hypocrisy" for demanding of others something he doesn't think should apply to himself. "One rule for them, another for the rest of us" as someone never tires of piously intoning.....
Have you got any evidence for this idea that Keir thinks the rules don’t apply to him?
As I keep maintaining, I am not a fan of his, but I think these attacks against him are made with poisonous bad faith.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
Ah.... That's the game...
I was wondering. After all, if Starmer goes over this, then Johnson either goes as well or looks really really shitty. Neither of which is good.
But this investigation puts Starmer under a cloud for six weeks. Long enough to get the Met investigation and the Gray report out of the way. And the Greased Piglet escapes again.
(If the Conservatives really want Starmer out over this, they're putting pleasure before business. Starmer's successor is likely to be a much bigger threat.
Starmer's job in 2020 was to clean house, bring on the next generation and lose by not too much in 2024, so that a 2029 win was on the cards. If the job spec has changed to a winner for 2024, he's not optimal. The fact that that's an consideration shows how howlingly bad Boris as PM.)
We may be in a unique position - both parties now want to keep the other party's leader in place despite their law breaking over covid because the replacements would do better.
People joke about that but I don't think they believe it deep down. You can never be sure even a crap leader would not be replaced by someone even worse, and whilst it would be a risk, being able to take down your opponent is a power move. It means you are setting the narrative, you are driving things, and have achieved something. That's worth more than 'Oh, let's not take him down too much, next person would be better'.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Do you remember the pressure the Met were under? They were even sued to try to force them to investigate goings on in No 10.
Yes and quite right as there was decent evidence of serial flaunting of Covid rules at the heart of No.10.
This was when there was just the photo in the garden. Not too dissimilar from the photo of Starmer. What we know now is irrelevant, they were under pressure then to investigate.
No, there was various tidbits leaked in the papers of several different events.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God man go".
"Does not look like the opposition break through that takes them to governement" - Nick Watt on Labour
It’s not.
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
Starmer needs a vision of Britain to take into the next election. Just, ‘were not them’, isn’t enough. What does he believe in? How will he increase British productivity? Build more homes? Sort the refugee crisis? Fund healthcare? Sort social care? And so on. It’s reasonable to not put your policies out this far from the expected election, but I hope they are working on them.
I still have some sympathy with the idea that it’s too early for policy.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
Yes, totally agree. The disconnect is between cities (labour) and towns (conservative). I want to know what Starmer wants to do in power. I hope he is not Brown Mark 2. Brown spent so long getting to the top he had nothing left when he reached it.
I am not a Labour voter. I am not a Keir fan.
But I am desperate to see them win because I think Boris and the Tories have driven the country into a swamp of corruption of economic mismanagement.
Personally I fear you are right about the Brown analogy. I don’t get the sense that Labour is that interested in policy (even accounting for rational forebearance at this point in the cycle).
The only person pumping out interesting policy ideas is Tony Blair via his Institute but I don’t see it picked up by Labour types on Twitter.
The country desperately needs a change, it’s just that Starmer may not be the driving force that’s needed.
He probably isn't the change we really need.
But Starmer may be the nearest thing on offer, and infinitely preferable to reheated fag end nu-Conservatism with the nasty bits of campaigning turned up to 11.
And if the answer to "Who runs the country?" is "Not you, Boris", that's all there is to it.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Who are you implying is crooked? The police? You are accusing them of political bias? I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
Perhaps crooked is too strong.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
Do you remember the pressure the Met were under? They were even sued to try to force them to investigate goings on in No 10.
Yes and quite right as there was decent evidence of serial flaunting of Covid rules at the heart of No.10.
This was when there was just the photo in the garden. Not too dissimilar from the photo of Starmer. What we know now is irrelevant, they were under pressure then to investigate.
No, there was various tidbits leaked in the papers of several different events.
That doesn't seem like that much difference. We're spoilt by what we know now. Back then it was all about the garden party.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 22m Often the way. Takes almost 24 hours for the true picture to emerge with local elections. Properly dire set of results for the Tories.
Indeed. I posted first thing this morning that Southern Discomfort - Northern Exposure is not a great look for the Tories. If they start to lose seats in Sussex and Surrey, then they are increasingly reliant on a limited number of anti-woke socialists in former coalfields seats.
Keir Starmer is a crap political campaigner who is also an honest man (perhaps some connection?) who cannot help but look guilty as sin when caught with his monthly beer in hand.
Boris Johnson is a superb political campaigner (albeit less-than-stellar governator) who is a crooked as a country road but who can brazen it out with a fridge full of wine slung over his shoulder.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
No one should resign for an FPN.
Lying to Parliament used to be considered a resigning matter though.
The March 2017 NI assembly elections gave 11 DUP firsts an 7 SF and, save Lady Hernon, that reflected exactly at GE 17.
On that basis, I make it we'd be looking at 10 SF, 5 DUP and 3 Alliance, although some very marginal and subject to FPTP specific tactical voting, at a GE.
Every little helps, and that'd be 1.5 seats closer to a Labour government, by replacing 3 DUP with 3 abstentions.
Personally am NOT sure that historic Sinn Fein position of absentionism re: British Parliament is good for all eternity.
After all, they've already swallowed joining the Northern Ireland Assembly. My guess is that, the votes they'd lose by entering Westminster would likely be MORE than offset, by votes they'd gain on the other end. Esp. since they'd then have the greatest theater in the world in which to enact whatever agitprop and/or serious messaging - regardless of whether or not their votes were propping up the government or not.
A bridge tooooo far? Farther even that the Boris Bridge! BUT stranger things happen in & from Hibernia.
Well, the thing to remember is that to them, the main prize is to win in the Dáil, ideally an overall majority, which can't be excluded right now. The UK Parliament is not any kind of great theatre that helps with this. Actually, it hurts, and even being in the NI Executive and local councils hurts a little. It means they immediately commit to taking positions on mainstream government issues like housing and economics, and those positions get thrown back in their faces in the south, where they are promising to be a radical cleansing opposition. E.g., it is hard to both support redevelopment in Belfast and be an anti-investment NIMBY throwing out the property investors in Dublin. Anyway, it's no fun to be like the DUP or SDLP with a handful of MPs, talking to 632 people who largely think you are bigoted foreigners with funny accents. (Edit, note that if it were worth while, they probably would have broken abstentionism on Brexit, not out of principle as such but to increase tensions in the UK.)
My final observation for now is no one needs to create or organise anti-Conservative electoral pacts - the electorate will work it out for themselves. Whether the beneficiary is Labour, LD, Green or Independents/Residents, local voters can quickly work out which option fulfils the objective of giving the local Conservative a real kicking . . . .
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
The PM should resign for lying to Parliament. It’s not hard, Big G.
I have called for Boris to go many times, but Starmer made the idiotic call for Boris to go when it was announced he was being investigated by the MET police and is now compromised by his own demands
I think worse, he demanded Sunak goes, even though it seems Sunak turned up early to a meeting in a cabinet room and a piece of cake was thrust into his hand.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
Yes, the charge against Starmer is not "breech of ill drawn up and probably unnecessarily draconian regulations" but "hypocrisy" for demanding of others something he doesn't think should apply to himself. "One rule for them, another for the rest of us" as someone never tires of piously intoning.....
Have you got any evidence for this idea that Keir thinks the rules don’t apply to him?
As I keep maintaining, I am not a fan of his, but I think these attacks against him are made with poisonous bad faith.
This is v tricky for Labour.
In the week after the Met police announced their partygate investigation both Rayner and Starmer called for Boris Johnson to resign.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
It's hilarious mostly because it plays into Boris's opponents unintentionally, by telling all those moving away from him in the South 'You're right, Boris only cares about the Red Wall, not you'.
Tower Hamlets is apparently scheduled to count its council election tomorrow, because today it was just the mayoral election.
Which is ridiculous as everyone else can manage it, but Tower Hamlets has been a real shambles before (sure to improve now they have a proven crook and liar at their head again) that clearly they take no chances.
My final observation for now is no one needs to create or organise anti-Conservative electoral pacts - the electorate will work it out for themselves. Whether the beneficiary is Labour, LD, Green or Independents/Residents, local voters can quickly work out which option fulfils the objective of giving the local Conservative a real kicking . . . .
Worth repeating.
There can be nudges, but as with many things less is more. Lead people to see it is the most effective approach, but demanding it looks desperate and gets peoples' backs up.
He's overseen a terrible result, which sure may be largely to do with others, but he decided to throw his full weight behind those others rather than be his own man. Even if that would have been a futile effort we'll never know, as he decided to grab ankle and lack even courage of his convictions.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 22m Often the way. Takes almost 24 hours for the true picture to emerge with local elections. Properly dire set of results for the Tories.
Indeed. I posted first thing this morning that Southern Discomfort - Northern Exposure is not a great look for the Tories. If they start to lose seats in Sussex and Surrey, then they are increasingly reliant on a limited number of anti-woke socialists in former coalfields seats.
And if the ex coalfields of the north find out they are utterly fecked thanks to the economic inflation and supply chain and jobs crisis about to hit us all will they give a f about anti-woke issues?
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
Starmer's problem wouldn't be the FPN in itself but the hypocrisy and being caught out playing politics over the pandemic. Arguably he deserves his comeuppance after going on about the "Johnson variant".
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 22m Often the way. Takes almost 24 hours for the true picture to emerge with local elections. Properly dire set of results for the Tories.
Indeed. I posted first thing this morning that Southern Discomfort - Northern Exposure is not a great look for the Tories. If they start to lose seats in Sussex and Surrey, then they are increasingly reliant on a limited number of anti-woke socialists in former coalfields seats.
And if the ex coalfields of the north find out they are utterly fecked thanks to the economic inflation and supply chain and jobs crisis about to hit us all will they give a f about anti-woke issues?
Well that is a problem all parties will have to grapple with
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
F1: Mercedes looking like they've improved after FP2. Still porpoising, but maybe not as much. Of course it could all be an illusion and by qualifying they'll be crap again
The March 2017 NI assembly elections gave 11 DUP firsts an 7 SF and, save Lady Hernon, that reflected exactly at GE 17.
On that basis, I make it we'd be looking at 10 SF, 5 DUP and 3 Alliance, although some very marginal and subject to FPTP specific tactical voting, at a GE.
Every little helps, and that'd be 1.5 seats closer to a Labour government, by replacing 3 DUP with 3 abstentions.
Personally am NOT sure that historic Sinn Fein position of absentionism re: British Parliament is good for all eternity.
After all, they've already swallowed joining the Northern Ireland Assembly. My guess is that, the votes they'd lose by entering Westminster would likely be MORE than offset, by votes they'd gain on the other end. Esp. since they'd then have the greatest theater in the world in which to enact whatever agitprop and/or serious messaging - regardless of whether or not their votes were propping up the government or not.
A bridge tooooo far? Farther even that the Boris Bridge! BUT stranger things happen in & from Hibernia.
Well, the thing to remember is that to them, the main prize is to win in the Dáil, ideally an overall majority, which can't be excluded right now. The UK Parliament is not any kind of great theatre that helps with this. Actually, it hurts, and even being in the NI Executive and local councils hurts a little. It means they immediately commit to taking positions on mainstream government issues like housing and economics, and those positions get thrown back in their faces in the south, where they are promising to be a radical cleansing opposition. E.g., it is hard to both support redevelopment in Belfast and be an anti-investment NIMBY throwing out the property investors in Dublin. Anyway, it's no fun to be like the DUP or SDLP with a handful of MPs, talking to 632 people who largely think you are bigoted foreigners with funny accents. (Edit, note that if it were worth while, they probably would have broken abstentionism on Brexit, not out of principle as such but to increase tensions in the UK.)
Agree that for SF the Dail is the real deal.
But how does SF get "overall majority' there? Seems a stretch based on current polling? Esp as plenty of swing voters swinging their way will NOT be entirely dependable re: transfers, unlike core SFers.
Also think that it's possible to do one thing in London, another in Dublin, and a third in Belfast. Esp. for politically-savvy Celts. And happens all the time in USA.
Plus is increasing tensions in UK really a SF priority THIS millennium? Esp. as Boris and his DisUnionist Party are doing fine all on their own!
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
Corrupt government and smelling very crooked for a start
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
Most are so why is that relevant
It’s relevant to remind you that “independent” does not mean unbiased.
You’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries and Jeremy Corbyn on this one, which perhaps should make you think.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
...and neither should Starmer. He is not cut out to handle an animal like Johnson. Johnson is correct, rules do not apply to him. They do apply to Starmer however, which is why the investigation should be enough for his immediate resignation.
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
Starmer's problem wouldn't be the FPN in itself but the hypocrisy and being caught out playing politics over the pandemic. Arguably he deserves his comeuppance after going on about the "Johnson variant".
Well I think you might be disappointed. I don't believe there's a snowball in Hell's chance they'll find he did anything unlawful and then where will Johnson be?
The problem is that no one believes Starmer has been partying whereas no one believes Johnson hasn't.
In a straight race between facts and what the public believe there is only ever one winner.
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
I certainly maintain they have mishandled this under the influence of a bad faith media campaign aided and abetted by people like yourself.
You have been rude and arrogant with me from the start trying to close down the story and I make no apology for seeking fairness in the application of the law between Durham and Met police
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
Most are so why is that relevant
It’s relevant to remind you that “independent” does not mean unbiased.
You’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries and Jeremy Corbyn on this one, which perhaps should make you think.
You are becoming more ridiculous each time you comment on this subject
Bridget Phillpson probably wins for Labour in 2024.
Woman. Catholic. Moderate. Likeable. Would be a lot of firsts, all good. Not in a safe seat if the red wall fails to consolidate.
I thought Louise Haigh good on BBCQT last night. One to watch too.
Though Starmer is going to fight the next election IMO.
Apparently Durham Police are following the MET police and questionnaires will be sent to all present and the investigation will take 6 weeks
6 weeks to investigate one event . Johnson needs the Met Police and the Gray report to come out quickly then as Labour will be muted in their response .
It is to be hoped it is never introduced again in future lockdowns
The idea the PM, COE, leader and deputy leader of the labour party should resign for a FPN is just silly
Starmer's problem wouldn't be the FPN in itself but the hypocrisy and being caught out playing politics over the pandemic. Arguably he deserves his comeuppance after going on about the "Johnson variant".
Well I think you might be disappointed. I don't believe there's a snowball in Hell's chance they'll find he did anything unlawful and then where will Johnson be?
The problem is that no one believes Starmer has been partying whereas no one believes Johnson hasn't.
In a straight race between facts and what the public believe there is only ever one winner.
If Starmer and Rayner get FPNs then they will have been the authors of their own demise
The Mail is becoming an embarrassment even by its own standards: this evening has a big strapline saying "Beergate: Day 10" - which simply advertises they have banged on about nothing else for the last week.
I thought you were referring to Starmer who did the same on party gate
I think the difference is that it was revealed that Boris had serially and flagrantly flouted the Covid rules and repeatedly lied about it.
I still can’t see what Keir has supposed to have done in Durham and frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
We now have a six week delay - for what exactly?
The problem is you do not know the details of the new evidence that has caused the investigation to be reopened and apparently questionnaires are to be sent by detectives to all present and no doubt photographs and videos will also be reviewed which is not going to be quick and 6 weeks may not be enough
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
Your last paragraph is very naive in my opinion.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
I am so angered that Starmer has let Johnson off the hook.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God, go man".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
What should they have done? As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
Just for your information Durham Police opened their investigation after receiving a formal complaint from an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother in the pandemic
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
Perhaps you can direct me to my “unfounded allegations”.
frankly it looks like Durham Police have caved to improper pressure by this corrupt government.
It's quite obvious that they have caved into pressure whether from the government or the press is difficult to know. The problem is that when they find Starmer has no case to answer the public will believe the police were leant on. Worse still it will leave Johnson horribly exposed and if he's going to be forced out that'll be the time.
Comments
After all, they've already swallowed joining the Northern Ireland Assembly. My guess is that, the votes they'd lose by entering Westminster would likely be MORE than offset, by votes they'd gain on the other end. Esp. since they'd then have the greatest theater in the world in which to enact whatever agitprop and/or serious messaging - regardless of whether or not their votes were propping up the government or not.
A bridge tooooo far? Farther even that the Boris Bridge! BUT stranger things happen in & from Hibernia.
We’ll see. If, and it’s a big if, Starmer does get a FPN, it takes the wind from his sails a touch. Anyway, time to move onto the col crisis, something far more important.
There were 30 in attendence and an online quiz was held
Your accusation about corrupt pressure on Durham Police is extraordinary and just partisan
If Starmer and Rayner are innocent of covid regulation breach then they have nothing to fear
And it’s a failure of Labour expectation management that it was thought that it might, since polling never suggested it would be.
What we’ve seen is a strong anti-Tory vote and significant Tory abstention. The winners have been any available non-Tory, but not especially the Labour Party.
There’s enough there to suggest at least a hung parliament, but that’s not good enough. Paradoxically, to win, Keir needs to voters to believe he will NOT be reliant on the SNP.
Keir has continued to surprise me, but I still don’t think he’s got it in him.
I think Plaid Cymru had the the best election.
They made a net loss of 9 councillors.
But, they gained control of three new councils (Ynys Mon, Ceredigion, Sir Gaerfyrddin) -- as well as increasing their majority on Gwynedd.
The police have already been shown not to be playing with a straight bat with their unilateral decision to observe “purdah”.
This is not a murder investigation. It is a matter of whether a curry (and quiz) at the end of a long day’s campaigning was legal under the extant covid laws.
That doesn’t take 6 weeks.
I’m sorry but this smells very crooked to me.
Photo of beer in hand laughing.
If you throw a beer into the mix then it is no longer a "work" situation in most people's reckoning in this country - it has just become a social event.
My father worked in germany in engineering in late 60s in defence industry and the germans would sit at their desks drawing diagrams with a beer in hand he says. Different culture.
But that is not the UK view.
I think they did not handle the “purdah” well. They could have announced that they were investigating and would not comment further. They chose not to do so, and briefed somewhat misleadingly about it.
But I think Keir is failing to paint the right narrative about Labour today, that it is (or should be) a national project to make life better for working people.
Or something like that.
Labour still smell like - and are easily attacked as - a metropolitan project for various do-gooders. Less harmless than before, sure, but still not especially appealing.
But they are mishandling the whole process, and are doing so under sustained pressure that was cooked up by Tory Party propagandists.
If that is a resigning offence then I can't see how Starmer's beer is not.
@iainmartin1
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22m
Often the way. Takes almost 24 hours for the true picture to emerge with local elections. Properly dire set of results for the Tories.
I am not a Keir fan.
But I am desperate to see them win because I think Boris and the Tories have driven the country into a swamp of corruption of economic mismanagement.
Personally I fear you are right about the Brown analogy. I don’t get the sense that Labour is that interested in policy (even accounting for rational forebearance at this point in the cycle).
The only person pumping out interesting policy ideas is Tony Blair via his Institute but I don’t see it picked up by Labour types on Twitter.
I mean, how many people who missed their relatives funeral or could not hold their dying sister's hand at the hospice would now go back and say 'sod it, family is more important' knowing the worse was a FPN and anyway the chief rule makers were all on the lash during the whole crisis?
Discuss.
Tower Hamlets
Croydon
Vale of Glamorgan
My first chance to comment on the local elections - a very strong series of results for the LDs with nearly 200 gains in England. The victories in Gosport, Somerset, Hull and Woking very much the big prizes but plenty of other encouraging results such as St Albans.
In London, the three Councils were all held with big majorities in Richmond and Kingston and control retained in Sutton. Big progress in Merton and nice to see the party back on Bromley with five new Councillors.
London, as ever, produced a varied collection of results. The Conservatives lost Westminster, Barnet and Wandsworth but won Harrow from Labour. Progress also for the Greens who ended Labour's monopoly in Newham and won seats elsewhere.
My final observation for now is no one needs to create or organise anti-Conservative electoral pacts - the electorate will work it out for themselves. Whether the beneficiary is Labour, LD, Green or Independents/Residents, local voters can quickly work out which option fulfils the objective of giving the local Conservative a real kicking and if there's no Conservative, the local council itself is in the firing line.
Final final thought, the 2023 round will be the same as those from 2019 when the Conservatives were Knopflered (in dire straits) losing 1,300 seats but still winning 3,500. The LDs gained 700 in a night but that means a lot to defend and it seems implausible even now we can see further widespread Conservative losses.
Final x 3 thought - only Runnymede and Reigate & Banstead of the Borough/District Councils in Surrey remain in Conservative control. The other nine are all controlled by various coalitions of LDs, Residents and other Independents.
https://twitter.com/PekingMike/status/1522673932226158595
As I keep maintaining, I am not a fan of his, but I think these attacks against him are made with poisonous bad faith.
The Durham event has minimised the seriousness of Johnson's outrageous behaviour. "They were all at it, they were all as bad as each other". No they weren't! But Starmer's utter folly makes it look that way. "For the love of God man go".
Starmer and Rayner should both go this weekend.
But Starmer may be the nearest thing on offer, and infinitely preferable to reheated fag end nu-Conservatism with the nasty bits of campaigning turned up to 11.
And if the answer to "Who runs the country?" is "Not you, Boris", that's all there is to it.
Boris Johnson is a superb political campaigner (albeit less-than-stellar governator) who is a crooked as a country road but who can brazen it out with a fridge full of wine slung over his shoulder.
As we saw with the Savile smear, it’s very difficult to find the right answer to “have you stopped beating your wife?”
I agree they have mishandled this, but I’m not sure how I would have dealt with this better (which is one reason I am not in politics).
But we are still some way from a re-elected majority.
That's my take.
https://twitter.com/DaveHill/status/1522697693105119234
Lying to Parliament used to be considered a resigning matter though.
Reeves is Keir in a dress.
Philipson untested to any great extent.
In the week after the Met police announced their partygate investigation both Rayner and Starmer called for Boris Johnson to resign.
So what do they say now?
(HT @DominicPenna for uncovering)
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1522573836843208704
https://twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/1522683601913057282
Maybe time to stop making unfounded allegations
The beergate clip was out there already .
Would he be that stupid ?
https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1522603892642664449
I maintain he will be fine
So what purpose does he serve by staying on?
Edit: the independent councillor seems to be vigorously anti-Labour, judging by his twitter feed.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3913090/#Comment_3913090
But how does SF get "overall majority' there? Seems a stretch based on current polling? Esp as plenty of swing voters swinging their way will NOT be entirely dependable re: transfers, unlike core SFers.
Also think that it's possible to do one thing in London, another in Dublin, and a third in Belfast. Esp. for politically-savvy Celts. And happens all the time in USA.
Plus is increasing tensions in UK really a SF priority THIS millennium? Esp. as Boris and his DisUnionist Party are doing fine all on their own!
I certainly maintain they have mishandled this under the influence of a bad faith media campaign aided and abetted by people like yourself.
You’re on the same side as Nadine Dorries and Jeremy Corbyn on this one, which perhaps should make you think.
Johnson is correct, rules do not apply to him. They do apply to Starmer however, which is why the investigation should be enough for his immediate resignation.
The problem is that no one believes Starmer has been partying whereas no one believes Johnson hasn't.
In a straight race between facts and what the public believe there is only ever one winner.
The words 'you protest too much comes to mind'
The constituencies in question are Lagan Valley, South Belfast, Newry and Armgh and South Antrim
If we were, we could have summoned Hercule Poirot to investigage Durhamgate.
Some two bit middle ranking judge facing the former head of DPP.
I presume he will defend himself.