Someone who voted for Macron in 2017 tells him that he's never seen such a rubbish president and calls him a Machiavellian liar. He says he'll vote for Le Pen this time having never voted for her before. Macron responds by saying he has bad arguments and suggests he's crazy.
Post the Brexit vote you were PB's voice of reason. A poster who had an opinion always worthy of a read. What happened?
Why don't you state what is wrong with @williamglenn pointing out what might be a gaffe by Macron given he already has a reputation as a stuck up arrogant pr1ck?
That's a bit harsh, I know William Glenn can be a bit abrasive at times, but still.
Someone who voted for Macron in 2017 tells him that he's never seen such a rubbish president and calls him a Machiavellian liar. He says he'll vote for Le Pen this time having never voted for her before. Macron responds by saying he has bad arguments and suggests he's crazy.
Post the Brexit vote you were PB's voice of reason. A poster who had an opinion always worthy of a read. What happened?
Why don't you state what is wrong with @williamglenn pointing out what might be a gaffe by Macron given he already has a reputation as a stuck up arrogant pr1ck?
In a nutshell, " a stuck up arrogant prick" or a fascist? Hmmm? Not much of a critique by Mr Glenn on Mme Le Pen on this board. Much like you own Trump sycophancy which has shocked those of us who baulk at authoritarianism.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Now that Boris Johnson & Etc. have admitted breaching (if not breeching) the law as promulgated by them, think it would be BEST for him & his to summon Parliament to refute Putin's newest big lie, that Bucha was UK "special operation".
Take hits with fines royally deserved (with apologies to HM) re: party-gate - and move on to supporting Ukraine and resisting Putin. Zelensky - and Biden - need all the backup they can get right now.
Not adverse to defenestration of Boris Johnson, now or in near future. However, while he's Prime Minister, he can keep doing something positive for Ukraine, UK and the Free World.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Let's pretend it was Keir Starmer, would you be supporting this position?
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
In todays spot YouGov 55% of Conservative voters thought Johnson knowingly lied.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
You're the lawyer, not me, but surely the reason FPNs are a thing is because they cover things that either happen, or didn't?
If you are caught on camera doing 75mph in a 60mph zone, there isn't a question of whether the offence took place. It did. Therefore, why waste the time of a court?
Similarly, if you are photographed attending an event that was not essential for work, it took place. And was illegal. Therefore, why go to court?
Arguably, if he gets an FPN which is presumably three figures rather than five, and AIUI does not carry a criminal record, he's getting off pretty lightly compared to others who organised parties.
What this whole episode, coupled with Cummings, does show is how extraordinarily slack and complacent the cabinet and government were about following their own procedures. No wonder Covid was such an issue among them!
I'm not sure the parallel works. Recorded speed is a question of fact, whether a gathering was reasonably necessary for work a question of opinion.
The thing is, we're not actually at war, though I know some feel we should be. We're actively supporting one side, with lots of others similarly engaged. I think the Ukrainians would be genuinely sorry if Johnson left, for about 10 minutes, but they really are fighting a war, and it's not likely to make any difference to that whether he stays or is replaced by someone equally supportive.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
A thought came to my mind today. Perhaps if this happens: a sort of JAUKUSNATO against China, Russia .... er Syria, and whatever other unfortunate dictatorships they can blackmail.... is that really such a bad thing ? Would we not just go back to the cold war again. That seems to have some appeal as a relatively stable situation, compared with how things are at the moment.
James Bond would find a new purpose at least
The thing about the Cold War is that ultimately both sides were pretty rational, even restrained - often all kinds of obtuse, stubborn, manipulative, etc., but not bonkers. It was in retrospect never seriously likely that Brezhnev was going to attack Germany, or Nixon attack Poland. A Cold War with Putin, Xi and maybe Trump would be rather less reasssuring.
Sounds like modern-dress update of George Orwell's nightmare scenario from "1984"
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Johnson's defence seems to have reverted back to the 'I did not understand the rules I introduced and went on TV every night at 5pm to explain to the public'
It's foolproof, if everyone in the country is an idiot.
Nah, needs 15-20% to be idiots, and another 15-20% to not care if the PM is a liar if he is on their side. Both are true.
Yes that point is ill understood on here. Something about being a party member and super-engaged I think.
Speaking personally, I voted for Blair when I was sure he’d lied to parliament and something dodgy had happened with honours. I voted for Clegg’s mob after what they did on tuition fees. I voted for Brexit when it headlined by people I dislike. I voted for Boris even when I thought him to be a [redacted] because of Brexit. I could vote for him again or I could vote for Starmer.
I don’t mind my PM being a cad if he’s a useful cad. Gladstone was. Lloyd-George definitely was. As was Churchill.
It’s all quite open in the real world.
I'm interested as to why you think Gladstone was a cad? You could use a lot of words to describe him but not sure about that one. Definitely true about Lloyd George and he's probably the PM Boris most resembles. Let's hope Boris has the same catastrophic effect on the Tory Party that Lloyd George had on the Liberal Party.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Depends. In my area all the independents are ex Lib Dems who lost their seats during the coalition years.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
I somehow feel for Sunak. In the medium term at least he sinks without trace. Johnson on the other hand survives and thrives. One is a decent, if in my view socially and fiscally misguided figure, the other is an absolute and dangerous charlatan.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Who are you backing now?
The Tory party crisis in a five word phrase. Bravo.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Who are you backing now?
Just a spectator voting for the independent candidate (who is not a closet conservative) and will see how this evolves but I am not voting Labour unless Starmer has something better to offer
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
That's not politics, that's tribalism, and it's ruining our country.
It's politics the world-over. And 'twas ever thus. In countries which have a choice that is.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
I somehow feel for Sunak. In the medium term at least he sinks without trace. Johnson on the other hand survives and thrives. One is a decent, if in my view socially and fiscally misguided figure, the other is an absolute and dangerous charlatan.
It’s hard to have too much sympathy for Sunak. Money solves a lot of life’s cares and stresses. If he wanted he could quit now and never work again. Some hardship.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
That's not politics, that's tribalism, and it's ruining our country.
More than anything else if nothing could possibly shake you from your 'side', what is even the point of choosing one? It won't be based on anything if no action, no policy, no amount of change, could divert you from it.
Our parties are nowhere near ideologically consistent, but at least they purport to represent broad ideas. The way some people stick to a team we might as well be those aliens from Babylon 5 who picked coloured scarves at random out of a bucket to determine their side.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
Still, the line:
"I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.”
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
Given how cowed Republicans are by Trump, those that are not in full throated support, even a piece of hearsay criticism of him is news, sadly.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Who are you backing now?
Just a spectator voting for the independent candidate (who is not a closet conservative) and will see how this evolves but I am not voting Labour unless Starmer has something better to offer
How about honesty? Isn't that better than what the Conservatives now stand for?
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
That's not politics, that's tribalism, and it's ruining our country.
Don't worry, it's only one of many things ruining our country.
If they’ve fined the liar for this party then surely other fines would follow for other parties as they seem more like an open and shut case.
And note that Johnson, as ever always going for whatever gets him through another day, laid it on thick about how genuinely didn't think it was a party and he was only there 9 mins and it was in the office he was already working in etc etc.
The other parties wont be like that. He was in the garden getting sloshed with the rest of them.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
Do I care ?????
@HYUFD might say that you are not a proper Tory! 😀
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
I wish more people said that. I've voted Conservative, Lib Dem, Independent, Green and Ukip (admittedly that was a wrench) over the years in local elections because I've known the candidate and trusted them to do a good job for the area. Frankly I'd rather party affiliation was banned at a local level.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
That's not politics, that's tribalism, and it's ruining our country.
More than anything else if nothing could possibly shake you from your 'side', what is even the point of choosing one? It won't be based on anything if no action, no policy, no amount of change, could divert you from it.
Our parties are nowhere near ideologically consistent, but at least they purport to represent broad ideas. The way some people stick to a team we might as well be those aliens from Babylon 5 who picked coloured scarves at random out of a bucket to determine their side.
Not just here but everywhere (that has a choice). A block of people always goes one way. Another block goes the other. Or another. The winner is the one that convinces the (mainly disinterested) middle to join their numbers. For that particular battle.
Unless you do away with Parties, politics will always be tribal. For that's what Parties are. Tribes of the politically aligned seeking to attract others to their tribe.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
A bit more than that. The Hill is a strongly Republican leaning publication; Luntz a Republican pollster. How extensive is the reported feeling, I’ve no idea, but there’s no real reason to think Luntz is lying, other than the normal scepticism for anything he says…
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
In todays spot YouGov 55% of Conservative voters thought Johnson knowingly lied.
Interesting cross-tabs there. There are, unusually, few differences on whether Johnson should resign by gender, region or social grade. There's a party difference, of course, though 25% of Tories think he should quit, and some age difference, with the elderly narrowly in favour of staying. Overall, though, they've done a good job of uniting the country.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Who are you backing now?
Just a spectator voting for the independent candidate (who is not a closet conservative) and will see how this evolves but I am not voting Labour unless Starmer has something better to offer
How about honesty? Isn't that better than what the Conservatives now stand for?
You mean like the lib dems promise on tuition fees they reneged on
As I say nobody can know, not only who the conservatives have as a leader into GE 24, nor the policies but my wife and I said this evening that our ages (78 and 82) we really do not think it matters personally to us even if labour do win
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
Do I care ?????
@HYUFD might say that you are not a proper Tory! 😀
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
No - I am not voting conservative in May
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
Independent? So you will be voting for a (closet) Tory.
Actually he is very much a lib dem
You've cooked your goose with HY for that revelation.
Do I care ?????
@HYUFD might say that you are not a proper Tory! 😀
When the public hear Johnson and his cheerleaders say he must stay on because of the Ukraine war, do they add rank hypocrisy to the callousness of his original offence? Or do they see a great leader protecting the free world from the Russian aggression?
Actually I'm not sure they're even trying to justify this to others. I think they're trying to convince themselves.
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
No, no - not saying you're wrong. But just remember your loyalty and obvious devotion prior to 22.00hrs on that December eve. Nothing would convince you otherwise.
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
That's not politics, that's tribalism, and it's ruining our country.
More than anything else if nothing could possibly shake you from your 'side', what is even the point of choosing one? It won't be based on anything if no action, no policy, no amount of change, could divert you from it.
Our parties are nowhere near ideologically consistent, but at least they purport to represent broad ideas. The way some people stick to a team we might as well be those aliens from Babylon 5 who picked coloured scarves at random out of a bucket to determine their side.
Not just here but everywhere (that has a choice). A block of people always goes one way. Another block goes the other. Or another. The winner is the one that convinces the (mainly disinterested) middle to join their numbers. For that particular battle.
Unless you do away with Parties, politics will always be tribal. For that's what Parties are. Tribes of the politically aligned seeking to attract others to their tribe.
That's nonsense that pretends the grip of political parties on their members and representatives has always been as rigid and powerful as now. That is not the case at all. To take just one example, perhaps not a good one for some, Jeremy Corbyn and his fellow travellers existed within Labour and spent much of their time criticising a lot of what the leadership was doing. They were and are Labour, but they have their own agency still, they are not beholden to whatever the leader says because they tribally support the leader.
There have always been such people going against the grain, and votes of conscience, and rebellions, it is simply not the case that being within a party, even as a representative, means people are 'X until I die' loyalists.
That's where people draw a line between being a loyal party supporter, and a tribalist - the latter does not really support any values or ideas, just the side, whereas the former usually won't go against the party line, but might because they are their own man or woman.
"As Russia’s war of aggression continues to ravage its neighbor, the Kremlin’s propaganda apparatus has been more blatant than ever in outlining the country’s goals for its biggest nemesis: the U.S.
Last week, American intelligence officials reportedly assessed that Russian President Vladimir Putin may use the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine as a pretext to order a new campaign to interfere in U.S. elections. Though AP reported that “it is not yet clear which candidates Russia might try to promote or what methods it might use,” Russian state media seem to be in agreement that former U.S. President Donald Trump remains Moscow’s candidate of choice."
" “Tulsi Gabbard would also be great. Maybe Trump will take her as his vice-president?” "
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Disloyalty? He flip flops so often I feel dizzy.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
To be fair CHB you were almost kneeling between Corbyn's legs before the 2019 election.
Fair point. Doesn't make me wrong though.
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I backed Rishi for months but on the production of his tin ear budget I condemned him and since the rest of the revelations I and many others have accepted he has lost the plot
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
Who are you backing now?
Just a spectator voting for the independent candidate (who is not a closet conservative) and will see how this evolves but I am not voting Labour unless Starmer has something better to offer
The Tories will do better than expected at the local elections as most Conservative voters ate solidly behind Johnson. Sunak and Johnson have both apologised so people should nowmove on.
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Lol. At least try and pretend there is some sort of independent thought there.
And the thought that we just move on when someone lies over and over again in parliament, because they have said sorry. So that makes it all right then.
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
Given how cowed Republicans are by Trump, those that are not in full throated support, even a piece of hearsay criticism of him is news, sadly.
In other world-shaking news, Mrs. Sununu had the pickled radish starter, leading to wind being passed surreptitiously during various rounds of applause. What makes this 'news' is the lack of surprise about from anyone who also had the radishes.
The Europeans have been, unsurprisingly, far from uniform in their reactions: Within Germany, the foreign minister from the Green Party is staunch; the chancellor is erratic; some members of his own party are timid. Britain is splendidly assertive. Poland and the Baltic states are positively heroic, while Hungary, Austria, and a few others are ambivalent or worse.
Tory MP tells Newsnight Johnson can't leave now as he is Putin's no 1 enemy.
Idiotic and dangerous hyperbole. There's a non-zero risk of escalating purely for domestic reasons with no strategic plan. Whoever said that is the biggest twat of this day of a thousand twats.
"As Russia’s war of aggression continues to ravage its neighbor, the Kremlin’s propaganda apparatus has been more blatant than ever in outlining the country’s goals for its biggest nemesis: the U.S.
Last week, American intelligence officials reportedly assessed that Russian President Vladimir Putin may use the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine as a pretext to order a new campaign to interfere in U.S. elections. Though AP reported that “it is not yet clear which candidates Russia might try to promote or what methods it might use,” Russian state media seem to be in agreement that former U.S. President Donald Trump remains Moscow’s candidate of choice."
" “Tulsi Gabbard would also be great. Maybe Trump will take her as his vice-president?” "
GOP pollster says Republicans are mocking ‘child’ Trump https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/ Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.” Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner. “He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures. “I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.” Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way. “I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.” “That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments. Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Literally an entire story from a comment someone made at a dinner?
A bit more than that. The Hill is a strongly Republican leaning publication; Luntz a Republican pollster. How extensive is the reported feeling, I’ve no idea, but there’s no real reason to think Luntz is lying, other than the normal scepticism for anything he says…
From my basic knowledge of the Republican Party, Trump is depised by the wealthy neocon Bushite faction, who are forced nevertheless to stick with him because of his popularity with their tea-party-esque base. This dinner comment would seem a rather obvious and hardly unprecedented manifestation of that. I seem to recall Luntz also being a non-Trump fan, but maybe I'm wrong.
Someone who voted for Macron in 2017 tells him that he's never seen such a rubbish president and calls him a Machiavellian liar. He says he'll vote for Le Pen this time having never voted for her before. Macron responds by saying he has bad arguments and suggests he's crazy.
Post the Brexit vote you were PB's voice of reason. A poster who had an opinion always worthy of a read. What happened?
Why don't you state what is wrong with @williamglenn pointing out what might be a gaffe by Macron given he already has a reputation as a stuck up arrogant pr1ck?
In a nutshell, " a stuck up arrogant prick" or a fascist? Hmmm? Not much of a critique by Mr Glenn on Mme Le Pen on this board. Much like you own Trump sycophancy which has shocked those of us who baulk at authoritarianism.
Indeed. Taking lectures from the sinister Trumpton Mr Ed is, erm, quite bizarre.
Tory MP tells Newsnight Johnson can't leave now as he is Putin's no 1 enemy.
Idiotic and dangerous hyperbole. There's a non-zero risk of escalating purely for domestic reasons with no strategic plan. Whoever said that is the biggest twat of this day of a thousand twats.
Tory MP for Cambridge S.
I, um, agree with Farooq - for once an angry riposte is appropriate.
To be honest, it’s something that has been there but not really said “don’t be absurd! can’t rid of Boris now, we are at war!”
But now they are having to vocalise it, have this idea tested like a barricade to defend.
The Daily Mail’s front page is almost identical to what my mum text me six hours ago! Just missing the bit about Carrie ambushed him with cake because he is always in her thoughts.
This time the jokes on them, because there are more fines for more breaches coming, more photo’s, and a damning Sue Grey report they can’t muzzle.
And with his trust and credibility about to crater more, there’s a strong argument a hated and untrusted leader is not the best person to Be in charge at a time of crisis.
Boris is doing Zilch in this war a Wallace, May or Hague couldn’t also manage as a stop gap. That’s the truth isn’t it?
Yes this will get momentum of it own now, the Mail’s front page flailing on the beach trying to stop incoming tide. 😌
Said it months ago, the prime time for a Boris removal is after the local elections. You get the feeling that beyond those who hate him and always did, the public, perhaps, are just getting a bit bored of the guy.
Locals are a useful protest point. Shit result, Conservative MPS do some projection, project disaster at next GE, send him out. Nothing like election results to provide cover.
The possibility always is that the Conservatives have a par performance thus creating the worst situation. One thing does look clear though, Johnson is going to have to be carried out of No.10.
I don't like Johnson and his flagrant disregard for his own rules. But right now I'm much more concerned with the outcome of the war. So his removal isn't a priority as far as I'm concerned.
Tory MP tells Newsnight Johnson can't leave now as he is Putin's no 1 enemy.
Idiotic and dangerous hyperbole. There's a non-zero risk of escalating purely for domestic reasons with no strategic plan. Whoever said that is the biggest twat of this day of a thousand twats.
Tory MP for Cambridge S.
To be honest, it’s something that has been there but not really said “don’t be absurd! can’t rid of Boris now, we are at war!”
But now they are having to vocalise it, have this idea tested like a barricade to defend.
The Daily Mail’s front page is almost identical to what my mum text me six hours ago! Just missing the bit about Carrie ambushed him with cake because he is always in her thoughts.
This time the jokes on them, because there are more fines for more breaches coming, more photo’s, and a damning Sue Grey report they can’t muzzle.
And with his trust and credibility about to crater more, there’s a strong argument a hated and untrusted leader is not the best person to Be in charge at a time of crisis.
Boris is doing Zilch in this war a Wallace, May or Hague couldn’t do as a stop gap. That’s the truth isn’t it?
Yes this will get momentum of it own now, the Mail’s front page flailing on the beach trying to stop incoming tide. 😌
Of those 3 distinctly unpalatable options, I think a May comeback I could bear the best. Would even be a bit sweet to see her get a brief encore.
Said it months ago, the prime time for a Boris removal is after the local elections. You get the feeling that beyond those who hate him and always did, the public, perhaps, are just getting a bit bored of the guy.
Locals are a useful protest point. Shit result, Conservative MPS do some projection, project disaster at next GE, send him out. Nothing like election results to provide cover.
The possibility always is that the Conservatives have a par performance thus creating the worst situation. One thing does look clear though, Johnson is going to have to be carried out of No.10.
If the Tories are level with Labour or just a few per cent behind in the projected national vote share at the local elections it probably won't be enough to get rid of Johnson.
Said it months ago, the prime time for a Boris removal is after the local elections. You get the feeling that beyond those who hate him and always did, the public, perhaps, are just getting a bit bored of the guy.
Locals are a useful protest point. Shit result, Conservative MPS do some projection, project disaster at next GE, send him out. Nothing like election results to provide cover.
The possibility always is that the Conservatives have a par performance thus creating the worst situation. One thing does look clear though, Johnson is going to have to be carried out of No.10.
If the Tories are level with Labour or just a few per cent behind in the projected national vote share at the local elections it probably won't be enough to get rid of Johnson.
To be safe Boris now has to be better than Truss. Let that sink in. That’s the alternative. He’s safe.
"As Russia’s war of aggression continues to ravage its neighbor, the Kremlin’s propaganda apparatus has been more blatant than ever in outlining the country’s goals for its biggest nemesis: the U.S.
Last week, American intelligence officials reportedly assessed that Russian President Vladimir Putin may use the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine as a pretext to order a new campaign to interfere in U.S. elections. Though AP reported that “it is not yet clear which candidates Russia might try to promote or what methods it might use,” Russian state media seem to be in agreement that former U.S. President Donald Trump remains Moscow’s candidate of choice."
" “Tulsi Gabbard would also be great. Maybe Trump will take her as his vice-president?” "
Yet Russia attacked Ukraine in 2014 (President Obama) and 2022 (President Biden) but not 2017-2020 (President Trump).
Crayola geopolitics
So you don't have a proper response ?
Mad and bad as Trump was he was also dangerously unpredictable.
Obama was predictably weak and so was Biden.
What Putin was wrong about was that Biden wasn't as weak as he expected.
Trump is not unpredictable, he's a self-absorbed charlatan. He'd sell Ukraine to Putin for the right price. He'd defend Ukraine if someone was paying him more.
So why didn't Putin pay Trump's price when he had four years to do so ?
The reality is Putin thought it was easier to attack Ukraine when Obama and Biden were President rather than when Trump was.
Johnson's defence seems to have reverted back to the 'I did not understand the rules I introduced and went on TV every night at 5pm to explain to the public'
It's foolproof, if everyone in the country is an idiot.
Nah, needs 15-20% to be idiots, and another 15-20% to not care if the PM is a liar if he is on their side. Both are true.
Yes that point is ill understood on here. Something about being a party member and super-engaged I think.
Speaking personally, I voted for Blair when I was sure he’d lied to parliament and something dodgy had happened with honours. I voted for Clegg’s mob after what they did on tuition fees. I voted for Brexit when it headlined by people I dislike. I voted for Boris even when I thought him to be a [redacted] because of Brexit. I could vote for him again or I could vote for Starmer.
I don’t mind my PM being a cad if he’s a useful cad. Gladstone was. Lloyd-George definitely was. As was Churchill.
It’s all quite open in the real world.
I'm interested as to why you think Gladstone was a cad? You could use a lot of words to describe him but not sure about that one. Definitely true about Lloyd George and he's probably the PM Boris most resembles. Let's hope Boris has the same catastrophic effect on the Tory Party that Lloyd George had on the Liberal Party.
Oh, for Gladstone I was thinking the issues around his loyalty to his wife and odd sexual gratification around prostitutes and porn. I know the consensus is that he was on balance really trying to help, but I’m on the side of the scholars who think it doesn’t sniff right (in the context that, like all sane people, I think he was one of our great PMs).
When the public hear Johnson and his cheerleaders say he must stay on because of the Ukraine war, do they add rank hypocrisy to the callousness of his original offence? Or do they see a great leader protecting the free world from the Russian aggression?
Actually I'm not sure they're even trying to justify this to others. I think they're trying to convince themselves.
People may think that when Zelensky praises Boris as a great friend of Ukraine, this is for some reason more important than attending a party for ten minutes in his own garden.
When the public hear Johnson and his cheerleaders say he must stay on because of the Ukraine war, do they add rank hypocrisy to the callousness of his original offence? Or do they see a great leader protecting the free world from the Russian aggression?
Actually I'm not sure they're even trying to justify this to others. I think they're trying to convince themselves.
People may think that when Zelensky praises Boris as a great friend of Ukraine, this is for some reason more important than attending a party for ten minutes in his own garden.
Tory MP tells Newsnight Johnson can't leave now as he is Putin's no 1 enemy.
Tory politics is getting very Trumpian. I have no doubt that some see the PMs FPT as some left wing conspiracy rather than his own malfeasance.
I have always liked the offence of “malfeasance in a public office” but I’m not sure what was the last time someone was done for it. It seems to have died.
Putin didn't invade* Ukraine during Trump's time in office! Trump must be the cause!
Italy didn't win a Six Nations match during Trump's time in office! Trump must be the cause!
*never mind the fact that the Russians continued the war in Donbass throughout this time, shelling and shooting and seizing territory. That doesn't fit the narrative so it didn't happen.
During Trump's time, the American system was so stymied by Trump that it didn't have the ability to function properly as world hegemon. Never mind Russia - it was a glorious interregnum of freedom for Britain. No being pestered to join wars. No being lectured to on green issues and being told not to open coal mines (by the bloody yanks mind!). If we'd asked Trump if we could buy Nazanin back from Iran, he'd have said 'Do what you like, I'm teeing off in 10 minutes', not 'No'. Never has a nation been so ungrateful for such a gift.
Comments
Even BigGNorthWales will be voting Conservative I reckon despite his recent terrible disloyalty to Johnson.
Take hits with fines royally deserved (with apologies to HM) re: party-gate - and move on to supporting Ukraine and resisting Putin. Zelensky - and Biden - need all the backup they can get right now.
Not adverse to defenestration of Boris Johnson, now or in near future. However, while he's Prime Minister, he can keep doing something positive for Ukraine, UK and the Free World.
Literally two weeks ago he was calling for Rishi to take over. And before that how amazing Johnson was.
Ruth Davidson has urged Boris Johnson to quit Downing Street - but Douglas Ross wants the Prime Minister to stay on.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-conservatives-split-ruth-davidson-26697053
I know what the answer would be
My wife and I will be voting for an excellent independent candidate we have known for 4 decades and is a very good councillor
I called for Corbyn to be kicked out of the party months and months ago, Big G was still calling him and Rishi great despite all the evidence to the contrary.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/04/12/c5ce0/3
It’s the tell. He really doesn’t give a fuck, and what’s more he loves to rub your face in it.
Obviously USA has massive issues, but at least the top guy here doesn’t seem to hold the public in contempt - for the next few years anyway.
With Tucker Carlson as Minister of Truth
So he decided he didn't have any honour
I think Wandsworth is lost.
But, they are out.
Cry me a river.
You would have appointed Corbyn as PM and no matter how much you now proclaim Starmer as the chosen one there is a very long way to go before that is put to the test
You had the wherewithal to withdraw for a sabbatical after that night, like Superman to the Fortress of Solitude, and come back a refreshed and invigorated Starmerite. Others didn't take that journey.
You have to stick with your man, to Death or Glory, until another man on your team stabs him in the back. Or he falls on the battle-ground. Flip-flopping goes nowhere. This is politics!
Looks to me that Wandsworth has been trending Labour for some time.
https://thehill.com/news/3264736-gop-pollster-says-republicans-are-mocking-child-trump/
Prominent GOP pollster Frank Luntz said in a recent interview that Republicans in private are mocking former President Trump and they are “tired of going back and rehashing the 2020 election.”
Luntz said he was not surprised by comments made by New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) that gained attention from the Gridiron Club’s annual dinner.
“He’s f—— crazy,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month at the annual event, known for its roasts of politicians and other figures.
“I don’t think he’s so crazy that you could put him in a mental institution,” he added. “But I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.”
Luntz said that while the comments were made at a roast, many members of the Republican party feel the same way.
“I don’t know a single Republican who was surprised by what Sununu said. He said what they were thinking,” Luntz said to The Daily Beast. “They won’t say it [in public], but behind his back, they think he’s a child. They’re laughing at him.”
“That’s what made it significant,” he added, referring to Sununu’s comments.
Luntz added, “Trump isn’t the same man he was a year ago.”…
Spivs doesn't begin to describe them
Our parties are nowhere near ideologically consistent, but at least they purport to represent broad ideas. The way some people stick to a team we might as well be those aliens from Babylon 5 who picked coloured scarves at random out of a bucket to determine their side.
"I think if he were in one, he ain’t getting out.”
is brilliant!
The other parties wont be like that. He was in the garden getting sloshed with the rest of them.
For that particular battle.
Unless you do away with Parties, politics will always be tribal. For that's what Parties are. Tribes of the politically aligned seeking to attract others to their tribe.
A touch hyperbolic surely?
The Hill is a strongly Republican leaning publication; Luntz a Republican pollster. How extensive is the reported feeling, I’ve no idea, but there’s no real reason to think Luntz is lying, other than the normal scepticism for anything he says…
As I say nobody can know, not only who the conservatives have as a leader into GE 24, nor the policies but my wife and I said this evening that our ages (78 and 82) we really do not think it matters personally to us even if labour do win
Actually I'm not sure they're even trying to justify this to others. I think they're trying to convince themselves.
There have always been such people going against the grain, and votes of conscience, and rebellions, it is simply not the case that being within a party, even as a representative, means people are 'X until I die' loyalists.
That's where people draw a line between being a loyal party supporter, and a tribalist - the latter does not really support any values or ideas, just the side, whereas the former usually won't go against the party line, but might because they are their own man or woman.
And the thought that we just move on when someone lies over and over again in parliament, because they have said sorry. So that makes it all right then.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/ukraine-russia-war-consequences/629541/
Mad and bad as Trump was he was also dangerously unpredictable.
Obama was predictably weak and so was Biden.
What Putin was wrong about was that Biden wasn't as weak as he expected.
To be honest, it’s something that has been there but not really said “don’t be absurd! can’t rid of Boris now, we are at war!”
But now they are having to vocalise it, have this idea tested like a barricade to defend.
The Daily Mail’s front page is almost identical to what my mum text me six hours ago! Just missing the bit about Carrie ambushed him with cake because he is always in her thoughts.
This time the jokes on them, because there are more fines for more breaches coming, more photo’s, and a damning Sue Grey report they can’t muzzle.
And with his trust and credibility about to crater more, there’s a strong argument a hated and untrusted leader is not the best person to Be in charge at a time of crisis.
Boris is doing Zilch in this war a Wallace, May or Hague couldn’t also manage as a stop gap. That’s the truth isn’t it?
Yes this will get momentum of it own now, the Mail’s front page flailing on the beach trying to stop incoming tide. 😌
Locals are a useful protest point. Shit result, Conservative MPS do some projection, project disaster at next GE, send him out. Nothing like election results to provide cover.
The possibility always is that the Conservatives have a par performance thus creating the worst situation. One thing does look clear though, Johnson is going to have to be carried out of No.10.
The reality is Putin thought it was easier to attack Ukraine when Obama and Biden were President rather than when Trump was.
Bizarre train of logic, I know.