Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?
Nice one
He knew full well it was a party. He just lies about it all.
Yes, but the important thing is he is willing to officially admit to being so stupid, as the only remaining explanation. No one calls on the 'I'm an idiot' defence lightly.
One thing he slightly elides is the reason dall-e is bad at faces - and hands and legs and bodies in general - it is designed that way to avoid the problems of deepfakes, porn, atrocity images, etc
It’s like a brilliant racing car with a built in 80mph speed limit.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
You missed the Wall.
The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.
Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile
(sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
Yeah, my dig was aimed at one person alone. Well, and the numbskulls who believe him and the evil c8nts who should know better and the spineless gits who don't speak up.
Has someone stolen your identity? You were always such an oasis of civility
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
Indeed: totalitarians on the left tend to have much in common with totalitarians on the right.
Well exactly, but your inference was that the Conservative party are "facists"? They aren't. Or even "far-right". In the same way even Corbyn wasn't "far-left" in comparison to many European left-wing parties.
I think far left is a reasonable description of Corbyn. Being slightly more moderate than Karl Marx and Engels doesn't exactly let him off the hook.
He and McDonnell ran disingenuously in 2019 on policies just about moderate enough that there was a sliver of a chance that the electorate would be fooled. But they'd have gone the full Commie soon enough once elected, if they had a large enough majority.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
Yes, I've noticed that. The New Statesman said this - "It’s now official. For the first time a British prime minister has been found to have committed a criminal act while in office…"
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
Could it be that you are out of touch?
Nope here are some figures with sources....note rounded them to 1000's to give easier sums
The most senior lawmaker in UK has now been convicted of breaking the law and yet remains in office.
No wonder Putin thinks the West has become decadent.
Should Boris go? Yes. Our system of government should always be more important than the people in it.
However I don’t give a stuff what Putin may or may not think. None of us should link the two things. If Boris goes then we end up with Truss or Wallace, either of whom will pursue the same policy on Ukraine.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
Could it be that you are out of touch?
Nope here are some figures with sources....note rounded them to 1000's to give easier sums
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
Goering specifically copied the 5 year plan ideas - see the 4 year plans.
As Tolkien observed, Nazism was a combination of the worst aspects of Kaiserism and Bolshevism.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Chief Sec to Treasury - The PM and Chancellor have my full support. Their efforts during the pandemic have ensured the UK is now free of restrictions and avoided economic catastrophe. I for one am grateful to them for everything they have done for our country. The PM has apologised and accepted the Police’s decision today. He has accepted Sue Gray’s recommendations in full and instituted a comprehensive programme of reform in No 10. It’s time to get on with the job of governing at a crucial time at home and abroad.
The first ten years of New Labour raised incomes at the bottom deciles at a rate no Tory government has even approached.
By spunking loads of cash we didn't actually have.
As opposed to doing the same for the better off? We can all claim money not spent on us is unaffordable. But it simply isn't true that the lower paid in the private sector were worse off.
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
Goering specifically copied the 5 year plan ideas - see the 4 year plans.
As Tolkien observed, Nazism was a combination of the worst aspects of Kaiserism and Bolshevism.
I agree, however the lazy use of the word "facist" is a pet peeve. Especially as no one can really adequately define it. Self-declared "Facist" Italy yes. But that's as far as it goes.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
Could it be that you are out of touch?
Nope here are some figures with sources....note rounded them to 1000's to give easier sums
GDP per capita 1997 inflation adjusted to 2019= 46,608 GDP per capita 2019 = 32,948
You said you and everyone you know is better off. I queried wether it was possible that you might be in an out of touch bubble, but perhaps not.
Because most people I know are in jobs that unless minimum wage have barely seen a pay rise in the last 20 years and more and more have been sucked into minimum wage as it caught up with what they are earning
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
That 15-20 percent of the population, who think that Boris knowingly lied but that isn't a sacking offence... What's going on there?
Maybe I'm rapidly aging out of middle age, but if he lies about this, how can you trust him about anything?
That is a lot saner than the people who think he did not lie, or even worse those still waiting for Sue Gray before they could possibly have an opinion.
Plenty of people voted for the PM in 2019 already knowing he was a shameless liar who thought himself above normal rules. In a logical sense not much has changed, so why is a change of PM required?
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
I'm in the middle of reading the new Ken Macleod novel "Beyond The Hallowed Sky". Given the influence of AI's in it (and a lot of his sci-fi writing in general), the DALL-E stuff is a bit uncomfortable reading.
The most senior lawmaker in UK has now been convicted of breaking the law and yet remains in office.
No wonder Putin thinks the West has become decadent.
To continue the sci-fi theme, I started wondering if Russia versus the West is basically the Idirans versus the Culture.
The decadent, eccentric, louche and eclectic utopic Culture with its citizens able to change sex at will, whom noone thought would gird its loins enough to properly take on the severe, austere Idirans rapidly expanding their controlled space...
On matters economic, the 2010s were a standstill decade for me - indeed, I'd argue I'm no better and probably worse off now than I was in 2009. I also accept I'm not representative of anyone other than myself and Hampshire electricians are coining it in (so we are told).
Still 156.9p per litre unleaded and 170.9p per litre for diesel at my local Tesco's while the nearest Shell station 6p more expensive in both categories.
Interesting to see Marine Le Pen opposes cutting France off from Russian oil and gas - I've always thought if you are serious about sanctions, you have to be prepared to suffer some pain as well. France's position, as Germany's, means real pain if they cut themselves off from Russian energy though presumably there are other sources.
As for the Prime Minister, I must confess I want him to face his nemesis from the ballot box - a resounding, humiliating and complete rejection from the electorate - rather than from his own MPs or the media.
Chief Sec to Treasury - The PM and Chancellor have my full support. Their efforts during the pandemic have ensured the UK is now free of restrictions and avoided economic catastrophe. I for one am grateful to them for everything they have done for our country. The PM has apologised and accepted the Police’s decision today. He has accepted Sue Gray’s recommendations in full and instituted a comprehensive programme of reform in No 10. It’s time to get on with the job of governing at a crucial time at home and abroad.
I hope mouthy teenagers and petty lawbreakers the length and breadth of the nation are paying attention to the excuses. Anyone who thinks you should do more than apologise for something should be told they are getting in the way of you getting on with the job at a crucial time.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
That 15-20 percent of the population, who think that Boris knowingly lied but that isn't a sacking offence... What's going on there?
Maybe I'm rapidly aging out of middle age, but if he lies about this, how can you trust him about anything?
That is a lot saner than the people who think he did not lie, or even worse those still waiting for Sue Gray before they could possibly have an opinion.
MPs: We are people of integrity and judgement deserving of being in a position of authority over the public, and making decisions for you.
Same MPs: I couldn't possibly offer an opnion about cast iron details which have been acknowldged by the parties involved.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
Although I vote labour, as I like our MP, I’m less concerned now about a labour govt. labour are now showing themselves to be a party of the working class and working class communities not vested interests, lobbyists, quangos and pressure groups
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
Perhaps.
Everyone I know earning between 18-30k is certainly not feeling better off. Not exactly the metropolitan elite, although you are right, not minimum wage either.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
It could have worked for Labour if Gordon Brown hadn't been, well, Gordon Brown. Blair would have won in 2010 tbh.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
That 15-20 percent of the population, who think that Boris knowingly lied but that isn't a sacking offence... What's going on there?
Maybe I'm rapidly aging out of middle age, but if he lies about this, how can you trust him about anything?
That is a lot saner than the people who think he did not lie, or even worse those still waiting for Sue Gray before they could possibly have an opinion.
Plenty of people voted for the PM in 2019 already knowing he was a shameless liar who thought himself above normal rules. In a logical sense not much has changed, so why is a change of PM required?
Yes, I fear that this site massively underestimates the extent to which many voted for Boris accepting he was a shyster but also that he was a useful one (they wanted Brexit).
Even from my own perspective I find it perfectly possible to state both that he SHOULD resign and that when he doesn’t I still might vote for him next time, because it will be 2024 and I’ll have to take a view on Labour as well.
I won’t be alone. That’s why I think Starmer needs a “Cameron/Osborne 2007” type conference this year to seal the deal, and overall I think a Boris win is underestimated given where the polls are.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
Unless a government has just been voted in, its fortunes rise and fall with the economy. This is one of the most basic statements about politics that it's surprising to hear anyone argue otherwise.
No 10 confirms this FPN was issued for the June 19th PM birthday gathering. PM is also linked to up to another five events the Met is investigating. Sunak was only quizzed by the police over this single June 19 event
United Kingdom government official · 21m The Prime Minister has apologised and taken responsibility for what happened in Downing Street. He and the Chancellor are delivering for Britain on many fronts including on the international security crisis we face. They have my 100% backing.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
inflation adjust average salary from 1999 is 32,822.93
now I may be mistaken but that is less than 31,285 quoted as the current average wage.....wow....does that mean maybe the average wage is lower now in real terms....why yes I think it does
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
I wouldn't blame any party that was in government now due to the rise in global gas prices, covid supply chain issues etc. I am sure the luckyguy party would have done absolutely no better
See my earlier post - it will take several days to show up in the polls
Surely this is all priced in anyway ?
But we have all been reminded of what he did.
I for one am angry all over again this evening.
I'm angry, but my heart's not really in it. Everything is proceeding as I had foreseen, right down to the very words used as excuses, so it's really just depressing rather than enraging.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
inflation adjust average salary from 1999 is 32,822.93
now I may be mistaken but that is less than 31,285 quoted as the current average wage.....wow....does that mean maybe the average wage is lower now in real terms....why yes I think it does
How does that compare to other developed countries?
And do differences correlate to levels of lower skilled immigration?
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
Truss becomes most senior MP to agree that breaking the law and lying to parliament are not resigning matters for a minister.
Thought it had already been established that breaking the law is fine, as long as it is in a limited and specific way. Another acceptable exemption from the law is if the event happened in the past, of course.
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
inflation adjust average salary from 1999 is 32,822.93
now I may be mistaken but that is less than 31,285 quoted as the current average wage.....wow....does that mean maybe the average wage is lower now in real terms....why yes I think it does
How does that compare to other developed countries?
And do differences correlate to levels of lower skilled immigration?
No idea, haven't looked and wasn't necessarily linking it to immigration the point I was making was merely that a rising gdp does not mean a rising gdp per capita. It was in response to a comment about the country getting richer and that to me only counts if everyones slice gets bigger otherwise its actually a pretty meaningless statistic for the average person in the street as it does him no good whatsoever
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
I wouldn't blame any party that was in government now due to the rise in global gas prices, covid supply chain issues etc. I am sure the luckyguy party would have done absolutely no better
They luckyguy party would at least have turned up to the game of doing better.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
But they rose massively under New Labour. They stagnated from 2007 onwards. I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
No its smoke and mirrors, New labour raised bottom deciles by imposition of the minimum wage. Wages that weren't minimum wage jobs and in the bottom 7 deciles stagnated and have every year since 2002.
inflation adjust average salary from 1999 is 32,822.93
now I may be mistaken but that is less than 31,285 quoted as the current average wage.....wow....does that mean maybe the average wage is lower now in real terms....why yes I think it does
Ah, but now you're moving the goalposts. You said "every year since 2002", and the graph I linked to very clearly shows variability. In fact, using the BoE calcuator you linked to, the years before 2013 show median wages ahead of inflation.
So what you're now saying is "between 2002 and 2020 in aggregate", not "every year" since 2002.
Also, why 2002? There's no clear inflection point in that median wage chart apart from at 2009 and 2020.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Boris Johnson says that getting caught breaking the law gives him "an even greater sense of obligation" to fulfil "levelling up" and "deliver priorities.” 🤨
Tone deaf
We’re fully into the taking the piss stage of this government.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
Yes, I've noticed that. The New Statesman said this - "It’s now official. For the first time a British prime minister has been found to have committed a criminal act while in office…"
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
The law empowered the police to assess whether someone has broken the legal regulations. The police carefully considered the facts of these events and the relevant regulations, apparently also consulting with the CPS. They concluded he had broken the law. Johnson has accepted their judgement. He has NOT challenged the fine. Ergo, I think we can tell that the regulations were breached, i.e. the law was broken.
If you are making a distinction between “breaking the law” and “criminal act”, that may be a level of subtlety beyond most voters’ attention.
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
I would argue that our policies as regards renewables have helped ameliorate the crisis somewhat, but that the policies on fossil fuel extraction have been utterly disastrous, and that the current government has been no better (and in some ways worse) than its predecessors.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Comments
If he hangs on they are finished in 2024. It will be a bloodbath. And I think he will probably personally lose his seat.
No wonder Putin thinks the West has become decadent.
One thing he slightly elides is the reason dall-e is bad at faces - and hands and legs and bodies in general - it is designed that way to avoid the problems of deepfakes, porn, atrocity images, etc
It’s like a brilliant racing car with a built in 80mph speed limit.
Maybe I'm rapidly aging out of middle age, but if he lies about this, how can you trust him about anything?
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1513937974148448266
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
GDP 1997 1,482,000,000
GDP 2019 2,225,000,000
source https://www.statista.com/statistics/281744/gdp-of-the-united-kingdom/
Populations 1997 58,307,000
Population 2019 67,530,000
source https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/population
GDP per capita 1997 = 1,482,000,000 / 58,307,000 = 25,417
GDP per capita 2019 = 2,225,000,000 / 67,530,000 = 32,948
Adjust for inflation
calculator source
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
GDP per capita 1997 inflation adjusted to 2019= 46,608
GDP per capita 2019 = 32,948
However I don’t give a stuff what Putin may or may not think. None of us should link the two things. If Boris goes then we end up with Truss or Wallace, either of whom will pursue the same policy on Ukraine.
I Fought the Law and the Law Won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI
As Tolkien observed, Nazism was a combination of the worst aspects of Kaiserism and Bolshevism.
https://twitter.com/bill_wow/status/1513883954784485406
https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1513931783649304585?s=20&t=_Vha1quQ2dOpI3TMcnbtZw
Chief Sec to Treasury -
The PM and Chancellor have my full support. Their efforts during the pandemic have ensured the UK is now free of restrictions and avoided economic catastrophe. I for one am grateful to them for everything they have done for our country.
The PM has apologised and accepted the Police’s decision today. He has accepted Sue Gray’s recommendations in full and instituted a comprehensive programme of reform in No 10. It’s time to get on with the job of governing at a crucial time at home and abroad.
We can all claim money not spent on us is unaffordable. But it simply isn't true that the lower paid in the private sector were worse off.
Plenty of people voted for the PM in 2019 already knowing he was a shameless liar who thought himself above normal rules. In a logical sense not much has changed, so why is a change of PM required?
I don't see any evidence round here of living standards improving recently. Quite the opposite.
To continue the sci-fi theme, I started wondering if Russia versus the West is basically the Idirans versus the Culture.
The decadent, eccentric, louche and eclectic utopic Culture with its citizens able to change sex at will, whom noone thought would gird its loins enough to properly take on the severe, austere Idirans rapidly expanding their controlled space...
OK, maybe not, but hey.
On matters economic, the 2010s were a standstill decade for me - indeed, I'd argue I'm no better and probably worse off now than I was in 2009. I also accept I'm not representative of anyone other than myself and Hampshire electricians are coining it in (so we are told).
Still 156.9p per litre unleaded and 170.9p per litre for diesel at my local Tesco's while the nearest Shell station 6p more expensive in both categories.
Interesting to see Marine Le Pen opposes cutting France off from Russian oil and gas - I've always thought if you are serious about sanctions, you have to be prepared to suffer some pain as well. France's position, as Germany's, means real pain if they cut themselves off from Russian energy though presumably there are other sources.
As for the Prime Minister, I must confess I want him to face his nemesis from the ballot box - a resounding, humiliating and complete rejection from the electorate - rather than from his own MPs or the media.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
Same MPs: I couldn't possibly offer an opnion about cast iron details which have been acknowldged by the parties involved.
Everyone I know earning between 18-30k is certainly not feeling better off. Not exactly the metropolitan elite, although you are right, not minimum wage either.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/
Peston.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-04-12/peston-should-tory-mps-force-the-pm-to-quit-to-help-the-government-survive
Even from my own perspective I find it perfectly possible to state both that he SHOULD resign and that when he doesn’t I still might vote for him next time, because it will be 2024 and I’ll have to take a view on Labour as well.
I won’t be alone. That’s why I think Starmer needs a “Cameron/Osborne 2007” type conference this year to seal the deal, and overall I think a Boris win is underestimated given where the polls are.
BTW in case anyone is interested the regulations applicable in June 2020 can be found here - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/contents/made.
Liz Truss
@trussliz
United Kingdom government official
· 21m
The Prime Minister has apologised and taken responsibility for what happened in Downing Street. He and the Chancellor are delivering for Britain on many fronts including on the international security crisis we face. They have my 100% backing.
It depends on the political reaction to it, partly.
But I think it will move the polls further to Labour, within a few days. The extent is the question.
go here https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
plug in 1999 and 17800 cost in 2021
inflation adjust average salary from 1999 is 32,822.93
now I may be mistaken but that is less than 31,285 quoted as the current average wage.....wow....does that mean maybe the average wage is lower now in real terms....why yes I think it does
I for one am angry all over again this evening.
And do differences correlate to levels of lower skilled immigration?
Afghanistan and 2x gulf not existential in way Ukraine vs Russia could become
I never wanted Boris as PM. He is a man with scant regard for the truth or law.
But I get irritated when those who oppose him seem to have no greater regard for what the regulations said either.
I expect he and Sunak will try to brazen it out. And I expect Tory MPs will let them do so.
Little Red Corvette was released FORTY YEARS AGO
“Move over baby, give me your keys,
I’m gonna try and take your little red love machine”
*huge existential sigh*
Former Fifa president Sepp Blatter and former Uefa president Michel Platini will go on trial in Switzerland in June to face corruption charges
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61086784
Case was opened in 2015. What is even the point when things take so long?
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Thanks. Not
You said "every year since 2002", and the graph I linked to very clearly shows variability. In fact, using the BoE calcuator you linked to, the years before 2013 show median wages ahead of inflation.
So what you're now saying is "between 2002 and 2020 in aggregate", not "every year" since 2002.
Also, why 2002? There's no clear inflection point in that median wage chart apart from at 2009 and 2020.
And I'm the one making no point?
Since comics simply can NOT out-laugh the likes of 45 and BoJo, might as well join them just to get a gig.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
Слава Boris
The law empowered the police to assess whether someone has broken the legal regulations. The police carefully considered the facts of these events and the relevant regulations, apparently also consulting with the CPS. They concluded he had broken the law. Johnson has accepted their judgement. He has NOT challenged the fine. Ergo, I think we can tell that the regulations were breached, i.e. the law was broken.
If you are making a distinction between “breaking the law” and “criminal act”, that may be a level of subtlety beyond most voters’ attention.
Your arguments are, to be frank, utter bollocks.