I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
In your view, regarding energy, is there any specific policy that was particularly damaging or is it a cumulating of things.
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
Nothing before gulf war matters as time of communication/ decision making v different
Afghanistan and 2x gulf not existential in way Ukraine vs Russia could become
It is stunning the lengths people will go to to try and argue that a politician who broke his own laws should not resign.
Your arguments are, to be frank, utter bollocks.
And the idea that the country will crumble without Boris at the tiller is frankly weird. Cultish, even. There are hundreds of MPs who could step up and do the job better than Boris. People who are serious and dedicated to this country, and who can do the job.
To whom does the Chancellor of the Exchequer send his request for the Chiltern Hundreds?
His wife's tax avoidance made excruciatingly clear. His loyalty to America made excruciatingly clear. Her stuff moved out of Downing Street to destinations unknown. His political career over. And now this humiliation. Why not walk?
We just spent the afternoon at the British Museum, taking the little 'un to the Stonehenge exhibition there. Thanks to everyone who recommended it - it was awesome. It kept a seven-year old enthralled for ninety minutes.
I did see some work by Leon's predecessors on the wall...
It was great to be back in London for he first time in two and a half years, and to see it busy and bustling.
Just cracking open 'More Sex, Lies and the Ballot Box' (I won the first book in a PB by-election competition), and an early comment that hits home hard.
'As for academics and deadlines, we'd asked for first drafts by 1 February. The last arrived on 19 July. By academic standards, that's almost ahead of schedule'.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
Yes, I've noticed that. The New Statesman said this - "It’s now official. For the first time a British prime minister has been found to have committed a criminal act while in office…"
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
The law empowered the police to assess whether someone has broken the legal regulations. The police carefully considered the facts of these events and the relevant regulations, apparently also consulting with the CPS. They concluded he had broken the law. Johnson has accepted their judgement. He has NOT challenged the fine. Ergo, I think we can tell that the regulations were breached, i.e. the law was broken.
If you are making a distinction between “breaking the law” and “criminal act”, that may be a level of subtlety beyond most voters’ attention.
If Boris has received only one FPN, for the birthday party, then presumably all the other events he attended at No 10 were legitimate work events.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
And to think you started this whole thing by saying how good it was we have a Conservative government because you're richer. What a strange circle you've now inscribed.
You should go back to your that post from Pagan2 and have it out with them. Either you or them hasn't got a clue what they're on about and I'd love to know which.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
Nothing before gulf war matters as time of communication/ decision making v different
Afghanistan and 2x gulf not existential in way Ukraine vs Russia could become
It is stunning the lengths people will go to to try and argue that a politician who broke his own laws should not resign.
Your arguments are, to be frank, utter bollocks.
And the idea that the country will crumble without Boris at the tiller is frankly weird. Cultish, even. There are hundreds of MPs who could step up and do the job better than Boris. People who are serious and dedicated to this country, and who can do the job.
The point is well made, though hundreds is a little optimistic, believer though I am in the harmlessness of most MPs.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
Yes, I've noticed that. The New Statesman said this - "It’s now official. For the first time a British prime minister has been found to have committed a criminal act while in office…"
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
The law empowered the police to assess whether someone has broken the legal regulations. The police carefully considered the facts of these events and the relevant regulations, apparently also consulting with the CPS. They concluded he had broken the law. Johnson has accepted their judgement. He has NOT challenged the fine. Ergo, I think we can tell that the regulations were breached, i.e. the law was broken.
If you are making a distinction between “breaking the law” and “criminal act”, that may be a level of subtlety beyond most voters’ attention.
If Boris has received only one FPN, for the birthday party, then presumably all the other events he attended at No 10 were legitimate work events.
No. The Police are working through the events one by one. They haven’t finished yet and may yet issue more FPNs, possibly including additional ones to BJ.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
If you want to increase energy supply quickly, build on-shore wind power. New gas/oil drilling started now would take far too long to come on stream.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
In your view, regarding energy, is there any specific policy that was particularly damaging or is it a cumulating of things.
Apologies Taz I replied to someone else on this same question a few minuets ago before I saw your question.
My answer is at 7.47PM and comes from working inside the oil and gas sector and seeing the changes that have occurred over the last decade or more.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
And to think you started this whole thing by saying how good it was we have a Conservative government because you're richer. What a strange circle you've now inscribed.
You should go back to your that post from Pagan2 and have it out with them. Either you or them hasn't got a clue what they're on about and I'd love to know which.
Actually not what I said, what I said was labour governments I always end up poorer after the end. I didn't say anything about tory governments being good. It is purely an anyone but labour statement
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
Nothing before gulf war matters as time of communication/ decision making v different
Afghanistan and 2x gulf not existential in way Ukraine vs Russia could become
It is stunning the lengths people will go to to try and argue that a politician who broke his own laws should not resign.
Your arguments are, to be frank, utter bollocks.
One of the general principles of the con. (As in heist. Not as in Conservative. Incidentally, don't make the fact that Bad Guys is a cartoon put you off- it's also an amusing heist caper.)
Rope in the mark with something absurd and incriminating. The mark will then find it harder to admit they've been conned, or to go to the authorities.
If the initial message is "You know I'm terrible, but I'm terrible on your side", it's awfully hard to acknowledge that yes, he's terrible and he couldn't care less about anything that isn't his ego. And faced with having to admit they were greedy and they've been conned, people will come up with all sorts of intellectual contortions.
A lot of the British Constitution depends on the decent chap principle. Mostly it works fine, until you have an indecent chap.
Boris is an indecent chap, which is why it's so damn hard to get rid of him.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
While your point I totally agree with its of the "well I wouldn't start from here" categories sadly and both labour and tories deserve keelhauling over the lack of energy security investment
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
If you want to increase energy supply quickly, build on-shore wind power. New gas/oil drilling started now would take far too long to come on stream.
Wind turbine capacity is not the issue. Reliability of supply is the issue.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
I would argue that our policies as regards renewables have helped ameliorate the crisis somewhat, but that the policies on fossil fuel extraction have been utterly disastrous, and that the current government has been no better (and in some ways worse) than its predecessors.
Yep I agree entirely. Although I would add that our obsession with just two forms of renewables to the detriment of all others is a big black mark as well.
weather report: weird. Or rather, weirdly normal for this time of the year in Seattle.
Hot then cold sunny then snowing somewhere. Enough to chill anyone's unmentionables this morning regardless of gender, orientation, ideology or shoe size.
Right now sunny if blustery so am going to relish (and risk) a run to the store . . .
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
That's just off the top of my head.
And your party is ?
You asked for suggestions; I gave you suggestions. Since you've now moved the goalposts, I take it my suggestions are all quite feasible.
To whom does the Chancellor of the Exchequer send his request for the Chiltern Hundreds?
His wife's tax avoidance made excruciatingly clear. His loyalty to America made excruciatingly clear. Her stuff moved out of Downing Street to destinations unknown. His political career over. And now this humiliation. Why not walk?
I thought the removal vans heading out of Downing Street towards the OC earlier this week was telling.
He's going isn't he?
Surely the rank odour from the BigDog next door can't be the reason for the visit from Pickfords.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
If you want to increase energy supply quickly, build on-shore wind power. New gas/oil drilling started now would take far too long to come on stream.
Wind turbine capacity is not the issue. Reliability of supply is the issue.
More capacity would be good. More capacity spread around the country helps with reliability.
The 🇬🇧 changed PM 👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan 👉🏻in the Iraq War 👉🏻in the Gulf War 👉🏻in the Korean War 👉🏻in the Second World War 👉🏻in the First World War 👉🏻in the Second Boer War 👉🏻in the Second Opium War 👉🏻in the Crimean War 👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
That's just off the top of my head.
And your party is ?
You asked for suggestions; I gave you suggestions. Since you've now moved the goalposts, I take it my suggestions are all quite feasible.
You have said this is my party and you have not responded so I assume it is a fantasy of yours
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
It’s like 2008 all over again, but backwards.
I would agree with that.
The Financial crisis in 2008 was not Gordon Brown's fault but his actions prior to the crisis made it far worse for the UK than it needed to be.
The current Energy crisis is not Johnson's fault but his energy policies - along with those of his predecessors - have made us far more vulnerable to the crisis and far less able to ameliorate its worst effects
In both instances we can say that the Government failed in its duty to anticipate and mitigate against world events.
In your view, regarding energy, is there any specific policy that was particularly damaging or is it a cumulating of things.
Apologies Taz I replied to someone else on this same question a few minuets ago before I saw your question.
My answer is at 7.47PM and comes from working inside the oil and gas sector and seeing the changes that have occurred over the last decade or more.
Thanks. I will check it out. I did want to get your thoughts as I was aware you were in the energy industry so would offer a more informed view on the matter than many.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
The extra cost of living is certainly the fault of the Government. Who else's fault is it? I don't expect our Government to throw its hands up and say 'Sorry chaps, the world is looking dicey at the moment, sorry about your living standards n' all.' - they need to find solutions.
The world price for gas and oil is not the fault of HMG and indeed is hammering governments across the world
I would however be interested in your suggestions how it is mitigated
Firstly, the project to build the Swansea Tidal Lagoon would have broken ground as soon as my party got into power, and tidal projects would hopefully be well on their way to making a significant contribution to our power needs.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
If you want to increase energy supply quickly, build on-shore wind power. New gas/oil drilling started now would take far too long to come on stream.
Wind turbine capacity is not the issue. Reliability of supply is the issue.
More capacity would be good. More capacity spread around the country helps with reliability.
Not to the extent we need. And not enough to compensate for the limits being put on gas exploration and production.
It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.
Yes, I've noticed that. The New Statesman said this - "It’s now official. For the first time a British prime minister has been found to have committed a criminal act while in office…"
This is simply incorrect. What the FPN says is that the police reasonably believe that a person has breached regulations and that the person can settle the matter by paying a fine. But if they do not, then the CPS must decide to start a criminal prosecution and the matter goes to the magistrates court for a decision. Only once they have decided that a breach has occurred can it be said that the PM has "been found to have committed a criminal act".
At the risk of being really tiresomely pedantic, when fines were challenged before, the CPS found that in a very large number of cases, the police had simply got either the law or facts wrong.
We should not rush to assume that the police have necessarily got matters right this time either. They may have. Or they may not. They were terribly confused over the difference between law and guidelines when the regulations first came out. And there are quite a few recent examples of them getting this wrong in cases other than the Covid regulations.
So for example - in summer 2020 the regulation stated that you had to have a reasonable excuse to be outside your home. Being at work was such a reasonable excuse.
Let's take the PM's birthday: he is at work. He has a reasonable excuse to be there.
His wife turns up with a cake. She is not going to work. She appears to have no reasonable excuse. Ah - but is the room where she meets with him in his office or in a room which is part of their home?
His Chancellor who works at another office also turn up. He knows it's the PM's birthday and also has work things to discuss with him. Does he have a reasonable excuse or not for being there?
Without knowing the precise facts of these events / parties / meetings and the relevant regulations applicable at the time, how is it possible to tell whether or not the regulations were breached?
The law empowered the police to assess whether someone has broken the legal regulations. The police carefully considered the facts of these events and the relevant regulations, apparently also consulting with the CPS. They concluded he had broken the law. Johnson has accepted their judgement. He has NOT challenged the fine. Ergo, I think we can tell that the regulations were breached, i.e. the law was broken.
If you are making a distinction between “breaking the law” and “criminal act”, that may be a level of subtlety beyond most voters’ attention.
I wrote it before learning the PM had paid the fine. So yes he breached the regulations and lied to Parliament.
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
There were plenty of police officers in Downing St at the time of the parties. It seems none said anything?
You are correct he is not fully above the law, but I think it fair to say he is closer to above the law than treated the same as Joe Public.
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
It's "guidance" that the Queen appoints whoever has the confidence of the house.
It's "guidance" that they are an MP.
It's "guidance" you don't nick food from other people's trolleys.
The whole country depends on a weird magic that binds us all together; that spell is broken if the Crown/HMG doesn't abide by the principles (not law) that they expect of the rest of us.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
There were plenty of police officers in Downing St at the time of the parties. It seems none said anything?
You are correct he is not fully above the law, but I think it fair to say he is closer to above the law than treated the same as Joe Public.
True - but no more than any other previous PM I would imagine. We can only guess at things previous PM's have "got away with" - and it would be absurd to think they haven't.
If the police officers who were there said nothing then that's their bad. Unless they were pressured into not saying anything. Which no one for a second is suggesting.
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
It's "guidance" that the Queen appoints whoever has the confidence of the house.
It's "guidance" that they are an MP.
It's "guidance" you don't nick food from other people's trolleys.
The whole country depends on a weird magic that binds us all together; that spell is broken if the Crown/HMG doesn't abide by the principles (not law) that they expect of the rest of us.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Reading the responses to the original Aukus announcement is a right laugh. Yes there's people overplaying it, but the utterly childish whinges are hilarious.
Here's another operative group, which despite its absurd length still passed the test of abbreviations either being short enough to spell out, or else pronounceable.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
There were plenty of police officers in Downing St at the time of the parties. It seems none said anything?
You are correct he is not fully above the law, but I think it fair to say he is closer to above the law than treated the same as Joe Public.
True - but no more than any other previous PM I would imagine. We can only guess at things previous PM's have "got away with" - and it would be absurd to think they haven't.
If the police officers who were there said nothing then that's their bad. Unless they were pressured into not saying anything. Which no one for a second is suggesting.
But it is not just that, even when the press broke the stories and produced photo evidence, the police refused to look into it for months, they used questionnaires not interviews, and the Justice Secretary said it was inappropriate for the police to investigate events from the past.
The whole system is designed to keep him above the law, it is just that he was so blatant about breaking it that eventually they could not ignore it.
We just spent the afternoon at the British Museum, taking the little 'un to the Stonehenge exhibition there. Thanks to everyone who recommended it - it was awesome. It kept a seven-year old enthralled for ninety minutes.
I did see some work by Leon's predecessors on the wall...
It was great to be back in London for he first time in two and a half years, and to see it busy and bustling.
If there are multiple fines for Boris and Rishi, will they just cut and paste the same apology statement, or will they increase the hyperbole in the apologetic language each time?
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
It's "guidance" that the Queen appoints whoever has the confidence of the house.
It's "guidance" that they are an MP.
It's "guidance" you don't nick food from other people's trolleys.
The whole country depends on a weird magic that binds us all together; that spell is broken if the Crown/HMG doesn't abide by the principles (not law) that they expect of the rest of us.
I hope the Speaker recalls parliament.
Only the Government can recall Parliament.
Whatever, I hope the Speaker puts out a statement then.
We just spent the afternoon at the British Museum, taking the little 'un to the Stonehenge exhibition there. Thanks to everyone who recommended it - it was awesome. It kept a seven-year old enthralled for ninety minutes.
I did see some work by Leon's predecessors on the wall...
It was great to be back in London for he first time in two and a half years, and to see it busy and bustling.
Yay!
It is an amazinggggg exhibition
It would appear that Professor Brian Cox has hacked Leon's account.
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
There were plenty of police officers in Downing St at the time of the parties. It seems none said anything?
You are correct he is not fully above the law, but I think it fair to say he is closer to above the law than treated the same as Joe Public.
True - but no more than any other previous PM I would imagine. We can only guess at things previous PM's have "got away with" - and it would be absurd to think they haven't.
If the police officers who were there said nothing then that's their bad. Unless they were pressured into not saying anything. Which no one for a second is suggesting.
But it is not just that, even when the press broke the stories and produced photo evidence, the police refused to look into it for months, they used questionnaires not interviews, and the Justice Secretary said it was inappropriate for the police to investigate events from the past.
The whole system is designed to keep him above the law, it is just that he was so blatant about breaking it that eventually they could not ignore it.
Well I suppose Johnson's, how can I put it, bravado, in making it so bloody obvious allowed the Police to do their job. I'm sure a less ebullient Prime Minister would have ensured such frivolities remained firmly behind closed doors and we would have been none the wiser. And would that have mattered? Probably not. Like I say, who knows how many previous PM's have been let-off from chargeable offences, or had them quietly ignored? And what we don't know doesn't hurt us. Or infuriate us.
With power does come privilege whether you like it or not, however in Johnson's case his power didn't avoid getting him punished as per the provisions of the law.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
Why do we need to obey Boris’ laws or pay Sunak’s taxes?
I’m right with you. You try it first, and I’ll follow about a year later, but I will lend all my (anonymous, written) support in the meantime.
Bear with me. Need to get elected as Tory leader first to be guaranteed above the law.
Well he demonstrably isn't above it is he? He got a FPN so the law was applied to him.
Ministerial code.
That's not "law". It's guidance. I accept your vexation about all of this, but you are just wrong when you say Johnson is above the law. He isn't. And that has been proven today.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
It's "guidance" that the Queen appoints whoever has the confidence of the house.
It's "guidance" that they are an MP.
It's "guidance" you don't nick food from other people's trolleys.
The whole country depends on a weird magic that binds us all together; that spell is broken if the Crown/HMG doesn't abide by the principles (not law) that they expect of the rest of us.
I hope the Speaker recalls parliament.
I agree strongly with all your post apart from the conclusion.
There is no point recalling parliament to listen to Tory MPs paying homage to Boris and saying now is not the time, whilst the opposition call for him to go. The chance to get rid of him over this through parliament has already been and gone.
Next step is the local elections, perhaps a big enough defeat there could prompt action, but nothing would be said and done in a recalled parliament that would be useful in addressing the situation.
Conservative MPs should take comfort that the idea of Johnson’s magic common touch turns out always to have been something of a myth. According to the essential study, The British General Election of 2019, Theresa May, with all her flaws, was more popular at every stage of the 2017 campaign than Johnson was at any point two and a half years later. The difference was made by the collapse in support for Jeremy Corbyn. There’s probably a lesson there about hanging onto a leader you know to be unfit, if only anyone could see what it was.
I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
oh really?
Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.
Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
So at least 70% of the electorate are worse off since the tories have been in?
Yeah but Pagan2 Is better off so thats all that matters to him
I want everyone to be better off but its true that under governements whether new labour or tories the bottom 6 or 7 deciles have seen stagnating wages and falling living standards. The last couple of years this has started to change
Are wages rising faster than inflation?
That is not necessarily true and not quite what I said. They have more pounds in their pocket at payday because they have had a payrise finally now companies are having to compete for workers. Whether that covers cost of living is another matter. The extra pounds certainly makes them feel richer and frankly cost of living isnt the fault of this government and would have been the same whoever was in power.
However still better to have had a payrise that doesnt meet inflation than no payrise and still have the inflation
"it would have been the same whoever was in power" didn't work for Labour and it won't work for you.
I am not in power nor is any party I support or voted for so as usual you point is pointless
I don't really care on whose behalf you're making that argument, it won't wash. It never has.
Well as I wasn't making it on anyones behalf as I said you had no point as always
Not even on your own behalf. You're just making an argument that not even you believe?
And I'm the one making no point?
No I made a valid point, there is nothing much any governement can do about those things. Not ours, not the germans, not the dutch. Gas prices have rocketed. Covid has disrupted supply chains. Doesn't matter who is in power. That is reality. You can argue with it all you like but reality trumps fantasy and thinking any government can do anything about those things regardless of left right or even god forbid lib dem.....well thats fantasy. It was an apolitical statement of fact....but you go ahead and deny reality if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy
Well for a start they could have put energy security above political posturing on Green matters and actually allowed companies to continue drilling for oil and gas as they had done before. That would have been a good place to start.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
If you want to increase energy supply quickly, build on-shore wind power. New gas/oil drilling started now would take far too long to come on stream.
Wind turbine capacity is not the issue. Reliability of supply is the issue.
More capacity would be good. More capacity spread around the country helps with reliability.
Only to a point. A big high pressure system sat over the country and still, none of that extra capacity is working.
More tidal capacity spread around the country - now you are talking....
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
They could perhaps make it an official federation, JAUKUSOF.
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
I'm quite sure he knowingly lied, but as I said on the previous thread, the British public are very tolerant of bad behaviour among their politicans. Witness, 23,000 voting for Jeremy Thorpe when he was about to be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
You missed the Wall.
That’s a bit tough on Hadrian - he was of his time not ours
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
You missed the Wall.
The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.
Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile
(sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
Yeah, my dig was aimed at one person alone. Well, and the numbskulls who believe him and the evil c8nts who should know better and the spineless gits who don't speak up.
Has someone stolen your identity? You were always such an oasis of civility
Trump brings out the worst in people. PS And Cruz and Crawley are even worse as they are very bright men.
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
You missed the Wall.
That’s a bit tough on Hadrian - he was of his time not ours
😜
No, it'd be a doddle to rebuild it as most of the work has been done. Like claiming 20 new hospitals when they are only being refurbished.
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
I'm quite sure he knowingly lied, but as I said on the previous thread, the British public are very tolerant of bad behaviour among their politicans. Witness, 23,000 voting for Jeremy Thorpe when he was about to be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.
He was also about to be acquitted of that charge. Perhaps generously, but still.
Practically and geographically speaking, the military alliance of the US, Japan, the UK, Oz, would be unbeatable. One of the two global superpowers, plus two G7 powers, and another nuclear power, plus the crucial Indo-Pacific continent: Australia, with all its potential
This is how we confine the evil of Russia/China, as NATO is legally restricted and the EU is horribly divided
Add in South Korea and Taiwan (surely?) and we have a coalition of great prowess and about 650mn people, and the most technologically advanced countries on the planet
“Move over baby, give me your keys, I’m gonna try and take your little red love machine”
*huge existential sigh*
Sigh. Bits and Pieces, by Dave Clark Five was the first pop song that I remember hearing on the radio and loving. Released 14 February 1964. So I was 5.
Dad hated it. Said it sounded like a herd of elephants stampeding. That just made me love it more.
The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war. Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
You missed the Wall.
The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.
Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile
(sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
Yeah, my dig was aimed at one person alone. Well, and the numbskulls who believe him and the evil c8nts who should know better and the spineless gits who don't speak up.
Has someone stolen your identity? You were always such an oasis of civility
Trump brings out the worst in people. PS And Cruz and Crawley are even worse as they are very bright men.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
A thought came to my mind today. Perhaps if this happens: a sort of JAUKUSNATO against China, Russia .... er Syria, and whatever other unfortunate dictatorships they can blackmail.... is that really such a bad thing ? Would we not just go back to the cold war again. That seems to have some appeal as a relatively stable situation, compared with how things are at the moment.
I doubt whether anyone in the Government has said that. Just journalist 1+1=3.
If chemical weapons have been used in Ukraine (and I have no reason to believe they haven't), and whatever teams are out there at the moment trying to prove it one way or another come to the conclusion they have, I'm sure Parliament (if it's not sitting) will be recalled. And any MP using the time allocated to Ukraine to ask about FPN's should seriously re-assess their priorities.
The actual wankers are those using the cloak of Ukraine to get a chance to have a pop at their boogie-man.
Parliament will be recalled soon. I'm sure any questions can wait and they will be asked. The issue isn't going away.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
Looks rather like the Old Cold War, with the European boundary moved eastwards...
At same conference, Putin called #RussianWarCrimes in 🇺🇦Bucha the same "fake" as accusations of int'l organizations of Assad's use of chemical weapons in Syria, which 🇷🇺 attempted to portray as USA airstrike
Reading some of the German responses to Zelensky's snub of Steinmeier, there's quite a bit of "you need us more than we need you" and people taking affront at Ukraine being critical of them.
Australia, Britain and the United States have asked Japan to join the security pact AUKUS, Sankei newspaper reported, citing multiple government sources..
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
Pitcairn Island - Tomorrow's Diego Garcia? Or yesterday's South Shetlands??
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
I'm quite sure he knowingly lied, but as I said on the previous thread, the British public are very tolerant of bad behaviour among their politicans. Witness, 23,000 voting for Jeremy Thorpe when he was about to be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.
- 57% say Johnson should quit - 57% say Sunak should quit - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
I'm quite sure he knowingly lied, but as I said on the previous thread, the British public are very tolerant of bad behaviour among their politicans. Witness, 23,000 voting for Jeremy Thorpe when he was about to be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.
Did he lie?
At one point or another in his 85 years of life I'm sure he lied. Yes.
Comments
There are hundreds of MPs who could step up and do the job better than Boris. People who are serious and dedicated to this country, and who can do the job.
His wife's tax avoidance made excruciatingly clear. His loyalty to America made excruciatingly clear. Her stuff moved out of Downing Street to destinations unknown. His political career over. And now this humiliation. Why not walk?
We just spent the afternoon at the British Museum, taking the little 'un to the Stonehenge exhibition there. Thanks to everyone who recommended it - it was awesome. It kept a seven-year old enthralled for ninety minutes.
I did see some work by Leon's predecessors on the wall...
It was great to be back in London for he first time in two and a half years, and to see it busy and bustling.
'As for academics and deadlines, we'd asked for first drafts by 1 February. The last arrived on 19 July. By academic standards, that's almost ahead of schedule'.
You should go back to your that post from Pagan2 and have it out with them. Either you or them hasn't got a clue what they're on about and I'd love to know which.
And this is not an argument against moving to renewables. It is an argument against getting rid of reliable existing sources of energy before the renewables are able to replace them. UK policy under successive governments has been half arsed and directed more towards pandering to public perception than actually ensuring a reliable energy supply. That responsibility lies entirely with the politicians.
My answer is at 7.47PM and comes from working inside the oil and gas sector and seeing the changes that have occurred over the last decade or more.
Rope in the mark with something absurd and incriminating. The mark will then find it harder to admit they've been conned, or to go to the authorities.
If the initial message is "You know I'm terrible, but I'm terrible on your side", it's awfully hard to acknowledge that yes, he's terrible and he couldn't care less about anything that isn't his ego. And faced with having to admit they were greedy and they've been conned, people will come up with all sorts of intellectual contortions.
A lot of the British Constitution depends on the decent chap principle. Mostly it works fine, until you have an indecent chap.
Boris is an indecent chap, which is why it's so damn hard to get rid of him.
Secondly, I would have been offering strong support for the development of UK gas and oil (and coal) extraction projects from the very beginning of my time in power, which criminally has not been done due to net zero bullshit.
Thirdly, when the shit hit the fan with Russia, I would have negotiated aggressively with OPEC countries to produce more oil, including threatening to ban all Saudi funding of mosques and Islamic education in the UK, and threatening the withdrawal of UK support for their armed forces. Similar negotiations with all the other OPEC countries.
Fourthly, I would not have forced UK oil companies out of Russia immediately, which has been an act of national self-harm vs. what a France has (not) done. This would be paired with a strategy of building zero dependence on Russia's energy in the long term.
Fifthly, having not asked UK oil companies to chop parts of themselves off due to foreign policy, the option would still be open to cap energy prices or bring in a windfall tax.
That's just off the top of my head.
Whether or not Johnson then applies the guidance of (his own) Ministerial Code then that's up to him. But he's not bound by it in a lawful sense.
Hot then cold sunny then snowing somewhere. Enough to chill anyone's unmentionables this morning regardless of gender, orientation, ideology or shoe size.
Right now sunny if blustery so am going to relish (and risk) a run to the store . . .
She's one to watch - that Priti - she's always on manoeuvres!
He's going isn't he?
Surely the rank odour from the BigDog next door can't be the reason for the visit from Pickfords.
Negotiations with Ukraine are at dead end after "provocations" in Bucha, Putin says after press-conference with 🇧🇾dictator Lukashenka
Says sides agreed that Ukraine's "harsh security guarantees" wouldn't apply to Crimea&Donbas, but then 🇷🇺 was "faced with provocations in Bucha"
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1513940853634568208
VW. "Spread Your Legs In a Campervan"
Car ads have changed....
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1513958018962051080?t=dmQIsDZw8a7bBQBQwRYApQ&s=19
You are correct he is not fully above the law, but I think it fair to say he is closer to above the law than treated the same as Joe Public.
It's "guidance" that they are an MP.
It's "guidance" you don't nick food from other people's trolleys.
The whole country depends on a weird magic that binds us all together; that spell is broken if the Crown/HMG doesn't abide by the principles (not law) that they expect of the rest of us.
I hope the Speaker recalls parliament.
https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1513930715766968323
https://twitter.com/kantarokomiya/status/1513852005852540930
If the police officers who were there said nothing then that's their bad. Unless they were pressured into not saying anything. Which no one for a second is suggesting.
Here's another operative group, which despite its absurd length still passed the test of abbreviations either being short enough to spell out, or else pronounceable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUSCANNZUKUS
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1960s-uk-triumph-spitfire-cars-magazine-advert-85324287.html
I had a red Series 3 Spitfire when aged 22. Worked for me 😇
The whole system is designed to keep him above the law, it is just that he was so blatant about breaking it that eventually they could not ignore it.
It is an amazinggggg exhibition
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1513949353534275591?t=Qd1n04MQPzwXSUXFndz9ww&s=19
With power does come privilege whether you like it or not, however in Johnson's case his power didn't avoid getting him punished as per the provisions of the law.
WTF?
Tho maybe that works: JOKERS, or are we joking? Care to guess, Vladimir?
More seriously, AUKUS begins to look like the future of the geopolitical world: it is the west plus Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, it is the liberal democracies versus Russia/China. This is the new Cold War
BREAKING: The U.S. says it will not object to Slovakia's potential transfer of MiG jets to Ukraine
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1513908899094712322
Any no wonder hardly any Tories are gunning for Boris to resign when Truss is the heir apparent now...
There is no point recalling parliament to listen to Tory MPs paying homage to Boris and saying now is not the time, whilst the opposition call for him to go. The chance to get rid of him over this through parliament has already been and gone.
Next step is the local elections, perhaps a big enough defeat there could prompt action, but nothing would be said and done in a recalled parliament that would be useful in addressing the situation.
It will now be up to voters.
Conservative MPs should take comfort that the idea of Johnson’s magic common touch turns out always to have been something of a myth. According to the essential study, The British General Election of 2019, Theresa May, with all her flaws, was more popular at every stage of the 2017 campaign than Johnson was at any point two and a half years later. The difference was made by the collapse in support for Jeremy Corbyn. There’s probably a lesson there about hanging onto a leader you know to be unfit, if only anyone could see what it was.
More tidal capacity spread around the country - now you are talking....
😜
I understand there were discussions in government this week about bringing back Parliament asap because of potential chemical weapons use in Ukraine
Now not possible because they’d get questions about Partygate fines
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1513887346999140353
This is how we confine the evil of Russia/China, as NATO is legally restricted and the EU is horribly divided
Add in South Korea and Taiwan (surely?) and we have a coalition of great prowess and about 650mn people, and the most technologically advanced countries on the planet
India can fuck off
Dad hated it. Said it sounded like a herd of elephants stampeding. That just made me love it more.
For fun anyway.
Perhaps if this happens: a sort of JAUKUSNATO against China, Russia .... er Syria, and whatever other unfortunate dictatorships they can blackmail.... is that really such a bad thing ? Would we not just go back to the cold war again. That seems to have some appeal as a relatively stable situation, compared with how things are at the moment.
If chemical weapons have been used in Ukraine (and I have no reason to believe they haven't), and whatever teams are out there at the moment trying to prove it one way or another come to the conclusion they have, I'm sure Parliament (if it's not sitting) will be recalled. And any MP using the time allocated to Ukraine to ask about FPN's should seriously re-assess their priorities.
The actual wankers are those using the cloak of Ukraine to get a chance to have a pop at their boogie-man.
Parliament will be recalled soon. I'm sure any questions can wait and they will be asked. The issue isn't going away.
Lukashenka called the #BuchaMassacre a "special operation" by the UK
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1513946856279130122