Remember Starmer can be next PM even if CON wins most seats – politicalbetting.com

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Fairliered said:

NickPalmer said:

Fairliered said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Priti Patel is briefing against the PM.

Downing Street put the brakes on Home Office initiatives to allow a bigger share of Ukrainians fleeing their homeland to settle in the United Kingdom, Sky News understands.

Home Secretary Priti Patel faced significant criticism this week from colleagues for failing to provide more routes for Ukrainians to reach the UK, prompting anger among Conservative MPs and speculation she could be removed from her role.

Sky News understands that Number 10 played a key role in reining in two initiatives from Ms Patel, which would have opened the system up even further.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-number-10-put-brakes-on-home-office-plans-for-more-generous-refugee-offer-sky-news-understands-12563556

If it’s true, she should resign on principle.

It'd be an amusing challenge for all of us used to thinking of Patel as Darth Vader's naughty sister to suddenly have to hail her as the heroine of liberal humanitarianism. But whatever the turth, the story suggests that relations are not good. Is there still a "next Cabinet Minister out" market?

Maybe she’s a secret libertarian, hamstrung by her leader and her department.

StuartDickson said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.

Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!

This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.

That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...

My experience was completely different

I like my iPhones and iPads, so I thought I'd try an Apple laptop

Hideous. Awful. Clumsy. Slow. Stupid. Apple make shit laptops

I am back with Microsoft with a Surface and it is clean and pleasing and easy

But still drive it sitting in your stained underpants.

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?

I don't see why not.

hmmm

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Do you think they would keep fighting if Russia withdrew to its international borders? They're not seeking unconditional surrender.

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

another_richard said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Malmesbury said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?

I don't see why not.

hmmm

Can anyone give details as to how close Russians, Ukrainians and Byelorussians are linguistically and culturally ?

Is it German/Dutch/Flemish level or closer or further apart ?

another_richard said:

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

I can think of these ways:

1) The crew surrender the tank
2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

Are there any other ways ?

I guess abandoned out of fuel, until up pops a Ukranian farmer with a jerrycan.

Possible but would suggest an utter lack of professionalism by the crew in first running out of fuel and then abandoning the tank and going elsewhere.

Of course, it can be a convenient excuse to bugger off by those who don't want to be there.

Certainly and that would be covered in my second and third points.

Whatever the situation is it does suggest that there's something wrong with the Russian military.

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Do you think they would keep fighting if Russia withdrew to its international borders? They're not seeking unconditional surrender.

What I actually think is that Zelensky is very realistic in his ambitions, but that he's concerned that the minute he compromises on anything, his coalition will break apart.

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

If it made you feel comfortable, it wouldn't be senseless. Life is meant to be lived well.

kle4 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Do you think they would keep fighting if Russia withdrew to its international borders? They're not seeking unconditional surrender.

What I actually think is that Zelensky is very realistic in his ambitions, but that he's concerned that the minute he compromises on anything, his coalition will break apart.

It's not an improbable thought. Right now, despite the grinding on of the Russian assault there seems to be good morale, even some progress on the horizon given the support being received on supply at least. People might even dare dream of retaking the occupied areas of Donbas if the tide turns. But wish that as we also mostly would, it may be that is not something he thinks they can manage, that some unpalatable options may need to be countenanced (even though they deserve far better than that). What happens should some form of deal emerge will be very difficult I would think,

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

TimT said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

And if it's really cold, wear your face mask. That warms you up, too.

Northern_Al said:

On the polls. Boris has had a spectacularly good couple of months. Covid is in the rear-view mirror. All restrictions have gone - we are free again, thanks to Boris. Partygate has been lost in the mists of time, and if/when it resurfaces, it will have lost much of its resonance. And, to cap it all, the whole of the nation is united in supporting the government in defeating Putin's evil regime and cheering the Ukrainian heroes.

And yet, despite all that, the Tories' opinion poll rating has only nudged up a tad, and Labour still has a healthy lead. If I were a Tory, I'd be very concerned that recent events have had so little impact on the polling. There may be something else around the corner, and Russia/Ukraine obviously hasn't played out yet, but most of the metrics coming down the road (cost of living, NI hike etc.) are likely to damage the governing party rather than come to their rescue. For Starmer, steady as she goes may well be enough.

FrankBooth said:

kle4 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TimT said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BigRich said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

@BarakRavid
New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.

Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.

Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.

It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

As ever, with you, comrade!

Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?

Very simple.
That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.

The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.

If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.

Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?

You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.

Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.

Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.

Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.

No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.

Accusations of bad faith are also standard in peace negotiations. Again, understandable from a Ukrainian perspective, but still a delaying tactic. Again, no-one is asking for their bottom line, I think they should give their 'top' line.

Do you think they would keep fighting if Russia withdrew to its international borders? They're not seeking unconditional surrender.

What I actually think is that Zelensky is very realistic in his ambitions, but that he's concerned that the minute he compromises on anything, his coalition will break apart.

It's not an improbable thought. Right now, despite the grinding on of the Russian assault there seems to be good morale, even some progress on the horizon given the support being received on supply at least. People might even dare dream of retaking the occupied areas of Donbas if the tide turns. But wish that as we also mostly would, it may be that is not something he thinks they can manage, that some unpalatable options may need to be countenanced (even though they deserve far better than that). What happens should some form of deal emerge will be very difficult I would think,

Zelenskyy accepting a deal doesn't mean we have to remove sanctions.

ydoethur said:

BlancheLivermore said:

I'm shocked that people are even slightly reluctant to sacrifice some of their comfort warmth to fight Putin.

Turn the thermostat down a few degrees at least!

FFS Russia's going to turn it all off soon enough anyway. You might as well well enjoy your home saunas whilst you can.

My thermostat never goes above 18 Celsius and I'm perfectly comfortable. Indeed, I often find school far too warm and have been known to take my jacket off when the children are complaining it's too cold.

And my fuel costs even in midwinter are around a pound a day...

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

MrEd said:

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

I can think of these ways:

1) The crew surrender the tank
2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

Are there any other ways ?

I guess abandoned out of fuel, until up pops a Ukranian farmer with a jerrycan.

Possible but would suggest an utter lack of professionalism by the crew in first running out of fuel and then abandoning the tank and going elsewhere.

Of course, it can be a convenient excuse to bugger off by those who don't want to be there.

Certainly and that would be covered in my second and third points.

Whatever the situation is it does suggest that there's something wrong with the Russian military.

According to that website (who acknowledge their data is only confirmed ones) Ukraine has lost 54 tanks and captured 85, so actually stronger than day 1, by 31, while Russia on the other hand...

Not only is Ukraine getting more tanks, it’s upgrading the quality of its tank force - swapping T-64s for T-72s and above. The same goes down the equipment chain.

Again though the key thing it goes back to is the question of time. Russia is running out of it as:

1. Ukraine is constantly being resupplies while Russia is running down its stocks;

2. The longer it goes on, the more Ukrainians who are trained and, at least, semi-effective. Russia’s manpower availability pool doesn’t look great;

3. In addition, the foreign legions will become more organised. Even if only 25% of the 20K are ex-soldiers, that’s still 5K men with military experience. The percentage is likely to be higher;

4. Clear signs of supply problems with the Russian army;

5. The damage to their economy and some signs that internal cohesion in the Russian power structures are starting to fray;

BlancheLivermore said:

ydoethur said:

BlancheLivermore said:

I'm shocked that people are even slightly reluctant to sacrifice some of their comfort warmth to fight Putin.

Turn the thermostat down a few degrees at least!

FFS Russia's going to turn it all off soon enough anyway. You might as well well enjoy your home saunas whilst you can.

My thermostat never goes above 18 Celsius and I'm perfectly comfortable. Indeed, I often find school far too warm and have been known to take my jacket off when the children are complaining it's too cold.

And my fuel costs even in midwinter are around a pound a day...

In that case, schools definitely need to turn the heat down for Ukraine!

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

MrEd said:

MaxPB said:

I've noticed the drum has begun banging for a vastly increased defence budget, along the lines of 3-3.2% of GDP, around an additional £20bn in spending for traditional capability enhancement and expansion. I'd like for the politicians to outline exactly who will pay for that and whether they'll start taking an axe to the sacred cows of public sector pensions, the state pension and in working benefits to pay for it. I don't see how we can carve out an additional £20-24bn for a surge in defence spending without cutting those three by the same amount. It's frankly laughable for politicians to call for additional defence spending and then shy away from cutting old people benefits and corporate subsidies like working tax credits.

One way to do it (relatively) painlessly is to use accounting tricks. Accelerate the increase state pension age by a year or two, switch to different metrics to measure rises etc

Anyway, I’m a bit of a MMT person myself so I’m probably being blasé about the whole thing

IshmaelZ said:

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

God how I envy you. Myself, I am cursed with this unwieldy monster....

MaxPB said:

Northern_Al said:

On the polls. Boris has had a spectacularly good couple of months. Covid is in the rear-view mirror. All restrictions have gone - we are free again, thanks to Boris. Partygate has been lost in the mists of time, and if/when it resurfaces, it will have lost much of its resonance. And, to cap it all, the whole of the nation is united in supporting the government in defeating Putin's evil regime and cheering the Ukrainian heroes.

And yet, despite all that, the Tories' opinion poll rating has only nudged up a tad, and Labour still has a healthy lead. If I were a Tory, I'd be very concerned that recent events have had so little impact on the polling. There may be something else around the corner, and Russia/Ukraine obviously hasn't played out yet, but most of the metrics coming down the road (cost of living, NI hike etc.) are likely to damage the governing party rather than come to their rescue. For Starmer, steady as she goes may well be enough.

Boris is permanently damaged by partygate. As long as he's the PM the Tories won't recover. He's lost all credibility with very many solid Tory voters who will never go back while he leads.

IshmaelZ said:

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

God how I envy you. Myself, I am cursed with this unwieldy monster....

Toms said:

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

Yes. When it was frosty I used a custom made hand knitted willy warmer when I commuted 18 miles each way to work by bicycle.. True (in this case)

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

LostPassword said:

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

There are patterns on Ravelry.

Knit a Willy Warmer for victory against Putin!

https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/seamless-willie-warmer

MrEd said:

MaxPB said:

I've noticed the drum has begun banging for a vastly increased defence budget, along the lines of 3-3.2% of GDP, around an additional £20bn in spending for traditional capability enhancement and expansion. I'd like for the politicians to outline exactly who will pay for that and whether they'll start taking an axe to the sacred cows of public sector pensions, the state pension and in working benefits to pay for it. I don't see how we can carve out an additional £20-24bn for a surge in defence spending without cutting those three by the same amount. It's frankly laughable for politicians to call for additional defence spending and then shy away from cutting old people benefits and corporate subsidies like working tax credits.

One way to do it (relatively) painlessly is to use accounting tricks. Accelerate the increase state pension age by a year or two, switch to different metrics to measure rises etc

Anyway, I’m a bit of a MMT person myself so I’m probably being blasé about the whole thing

Toms said:

Leon said:

Toms said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

Sure. It's fairly mild outside. I use a little electric heater on my legs. Generally light bulbs don't use much power, so why not treat yourself to several? People used to wear serious woolens. I have an instant theory that in the old days blokes wore wigs partly to keep warm. A woolly hat does that for me.

I find that a foot long "penis cosy" keeps me sufficiently warm, just enough to cover my manhood, but no more

Yes. When it was frosty I used a custom made hand knitted willy warmer when I commuted 18 miles each way to work by bicycle.. True (in this case)

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Boris Johnson has almost exactly the same problem Jeremy Corbyn had.

IshmaelZ said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BlancheLivermore said:

As a nation we can do a lot for the fight with Ukraine by massively reducing our energy usage. If we were able to divert some of our gas supply (maybe from Norway?) to Germany and help wean them off their shameful teat, we'd at least be setting an example.

I don't think PB currently offers an emoticon that reflects my thoughts on this proposal.

This is war.

And a war that really matters.

Even if we won't fucking fight it (for once), we could at least suffer a bit to do what we can to punish the Putin and help the very obviously good side of the war.

I've got my heating off and just one lightbulb on in my house. I've put on an extra layer of clothing. It doesn't take much for people to do something about this that does actually help.

I think a woolly hat next to a candle should suffice.

Get your flipping heating back on now you utter loon.

Sorry to be sharp, but please put your heating on. You cannot help others by suffering. Suffering has no inherent virtue. In fact, you'll be in a far better position to uplift those around you if you look after your own health and wellbeing, physical and mental, first. You are no use to anyone as a shivering wreck in a woolly hat.

I've just removed the blanket from my shoulders because I was getting a bit warm.

Heating up my entire house would be senseless.

If it made you feel comfortable, it wouldn't be senseless. Life is meant to be lived well.

Are you turning your heating up?

No, I had my heating at an adequate level already. As is happens, I am insulating my stone-built house with sheep's wool insulation at the moment - there's a narrow cavity and it's going to make the place warmer and save some heating eventually, which is good. But shivering for Ukraine is nearly as daft as your idea to join the catering corps.

Good plan. Try approaching local sheep farmers to buy the wool direct BTW, the market is so bad that the wool marketing board no longer pays up front, so if you offer actual cash you'll get your arm bitten off.

Northern_Al said:

On the polls. Boris has had a spectacularly good couple of months. Covid is in the rear-view mirror. All restrictions have gone - we are free again, thanks to Boris. Partygate has been lost in the mists of time, and if/when it resurfaces, it will have lost much of its resonance. And, to cap it all, the whole of the nation is united in supporting the government in defeating Putin's evil regime and cheering the Ukrainian heroes.

And yet, despite all that, the Tories' opinion poll rating has only nudged up a tad, and Labour still has a healthy lead. If I were a Tory, I'd be very concerned that recent events have had so little impact on the polling. There may be something else around the corner, and Russia/Ukraine obviously hasn't played out yet, but most of the metrics coming down the road (cost of living, NI hike etc.) are likely to damage the governing party rather than come to their rescue. For Starmer, steady as she goes may well be enough.