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Remember Starmer can be next PM even if CON wins most seats – politicalbetting.com

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  • England 185/1

    It's as good as dogs!
  • HYUFD said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    The Tories have been in power 12 years, most governments in power that long trail. Indeed only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted that long, the 1951 to 1964 Tory government, the 1979 to 1997 Tory government and the 1997 to 2010 Labour government. They often trailed by more than 6% 12 years in
    I remember about five months ago when people were saying Labour was doomed and Starmer should resign.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    +1 - and for dev, you have a pretty decent UNIX

    Apple really raised the bar for consumer electronics. I use a Garmin watch - and it is painfully obvious that their UX is still a million miles behind. Much better device than the iWatch, just harder to learn to use.
    Yeah the terminal functionality in MacOS is just so much better than powershell or something along those lines from windows. It's also got a really, really good native instance of VSCode for Apple Silicon. I just find the whole experience of working, developing and editing photos/videos on Mac so much easier than it was on Windows.
    VSCode is good for an Electron app but it's still Electron. We really must get away from it, it's just horrible
    Nah it's fine. The plugins are the cheat code IMO, it's just so easy for me to develop in typescript and python at the same time now without needing bullshit like Conda or VIM or the nightmare of having to switch between editors.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,265

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
  • 🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    Yes, in time. You really get into each poll don’t you! I admire your enthusiasm.
    It's the source of most of my winnings on the betting front.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    British American Tobacco will no longer sell in RU.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    +1 - and for dev, you have a pretty decent UNIX

    Apple really raised the bar for consumer electronics. I use a Garmin watch - and it is painfully obvious that their UX is still a million miles behind. Much better device than the iWatch, just harder to learn to use.
    Yeah the terminal functionality in MacOS is just so much better than powershell or something along those lines from windows. It's also got a really, really good native instance of VSCode for Apple Silicon. I just find the whole experience of working, developing and editing photos/videos on Mac so much easier than it was on Windows.
    VSCode is good for an Electron app but it's still Electron. We really must get away from it, it's just horrible
    Nah it's fine. The plugins are the cheat code IMO, it's just so easy for me to develop in typescript and python at the same time now without needing bullshit like Conda or VIM or the nightmare of having to switch between editors.
    No Electron is actually horrible, one of the most inefficient underlying processes in Chrome is the bulk of the application and just eats RAM.

    We must move away from it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    +1 - and for dev, you have a pretty decent UNIX

    Apple really raised the bar for consumer electronics. I use a Garmin watch - and it is painfully obvious that their UX is still a million miles behind. Much better device than the iWatch, just harder to learn to use.
    Yeah the terminal functionality in MacOS is just so much better than powershell or something along those lines from windows. It's also got a really, really good native instance of VSCode for Apple Silicon. I just find the whole experience of working, developing and editing photos/videos on Mac so much easier than it was on Windows.
    They need to get GPU acceleration support working for pytorch, tensorflow and jax.
    I doubt it will be long until Apple make this possible for their silicon, though I've mainly been running tensorflow within my GCP instance so I don't have this issue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    Saudi for all its faults has not invaded another neighbouring country like Russia invaded Ukraine.

    It just backed a side in the Yemen civil war and restored the previous government
    Putin's plan was to restore a previous government too.

    Have you not seen the death toll in Yemen?

    There are some other Putinesque tendencies that would be best nipped in the bud too. Misogyny, subjugation of the people and torture, imprisonment and execution of critics to name but a few. Other than that I am sure they are a very, very nice government.
    Yemen is a civil war which toppled the previous government. There was no civil war in Ukraine before Putin invaded.

    There are plenty of nasty regimes in the world, we do not go to war against them all.
  • @MaxPB I'm selling my M1 MBP entirely because 8GB of RAM is being eaten by VSCode. Apple should not be selling these machines with less than 16 but nonetheless, it's embarrassing how inefficient Chrome/Electron is
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Apple Silicon is perhaps the biggest change in the computing industry of the last decade - and yet has gone almost completely unnoticed.

    I am very, very long on Apple.

    Urrrm, I've been wittering away about it on here for ages. The A-series chips are brilliant.

    About the first brilliant bit of tech Apple have ever done. ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited March 2022
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    +1 - and for dev, you have a pretty decent UNIX

    Apple really raised the bar for consumer electronics. I use a Garmin watch - and it is painfully obvious that their UX is still a million miles behind. Much better device than the iWatch, just harder to learn to use.
    Yeah the terminal functionality in MacOS is just so much better than powershell or something along those lines from windows. It's also got a really, really good native instance of VSCode for Apple Silicon. I just find the whole experience of working, developing and editing photos/videos on Mac so much easier than it was on Windows.
    They need to get GPU acceleration support working for pytorch, tensorflow and jax.
    I doubt it will be long until Apple make this possible for their silicon, though I've mainly been running tensorflow within my GCP instance so I don't have this issue.
    I saw an advert for Apple hiring pytorch devs. So fingers crossed. They just released a jax like addon for pytorch, which should be very interesting how thay goes. JAX is absolutely awesome, ditched TF for it, for prototyping.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Cost of the War to Russia

    I was sceptical about the $20bn a day cost to Russia.

    But given all the economic stuff now, and loss of kit, loss of lifetime GDP of 10k of dead military and partial loss for xxxxx k of wounded military, and perhaps reparations, I can see that we are ticking closer to the $20bn a day cost.

    This is the best, though limited, analysis I have seen:https://www.consultancy.eu/news/7433/research-ukraine-war-costs-russian-military-20-billion-per-day


    The destruction they are wreaking in Ukraine is likely more than that.
    True, but Ukraine will be given the money to rebuild. And also be able to export to the rest of the world to earn more.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Russian ambassador to the UN, Vasily Nebenzya, has been presenting the Kremlin’s allegations that Ukraine and the US had a plot to spread biological weapons with migratory birds, bats and insects.

    The whole idea is for the birds.

    The Kremlin are bats.

    And they have the morals of insects.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/us-looks-to-keep-ukrainian-biological-research-facilities-from-russian-control

    I still have an open mind about this, as the honesty of the Ukrainians today about the existence of the US bug factory sits uneasily with UK and US calling the Russian claims utter nonsense. What the Ukrainians have said is there was an American Bug Factory but it DEFINITELY NOT making war bugs, hence the Russian claims of Biden manufacturing biological weapons in Ukraine is utter rubbish.

    I have it in my mind I’ll never know truth on this one

    Correct me where I am wrong though if I have this bit of recent US politics wrong, I certainly have impression these days it’s the Democrat high command who in US politics carry most belligerence towards Russia, they wear it like a proud badge, even Bernie Sanders hates Russia, in a way the Republican leaders have a more pragmatic and moderate approach to Russia relations? So Vice President Biden for all those years in a Russian hating Obama White House, that was a bit lost and shambolic on foreign policy - we wouldn’t be shocked they liked the idea of peeling Ukraine away from Moscow, so not surprised if there’s a few things Biden wouldn’t like us to know at this moment? 🤔
    Every country on the planet has biotech labs. Russia is the place where they comprehensively and deliberately broke the Biological Weapons treaty over a period of decades. Right from the moment the treat was signed, in fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#The_Cold_War

    A favourite was the account of the American scientist, who when helping clean up an abandoned lab on an island in the Aral Sea, found metric *tons* of anthrax spores....

    Obama repeatedly reached out to Russia. Putin kept doing his war! war! shit.
    We will have to agree to disagree if you think Obama’s White House was clear headed and excellent on Foreign Policy. But I totally agree with you EVERYONE has deep state, so there must be times opponents point at our deep state activities, and our governments lie to deny it, just like the same when we point to theirs, like Salisbury atrocity. And by opponents of our government deep state, not necessary China or Moscow, but amnesty or green peace. I think I have an excellent example, the Labour Government breaking law on torture with the rendition, and then lying that they had been involved.

    Is it the more deep state you can do abroad the easier to deny at home it is you involved?
    All states that are part of the Bioweapons Treaty (everyone except North Korea and the like) have an inspection regime. This mean people from other countries can poke around the sites that each government is allowed, under the treaty, to have for research.

    Somewhat similar to the nuclear inspection regime. Think international groups of scientists wandering around, with clipboards....

    In fact this was what caused the Russian thing to leak out in the first place. A Russian scientist who took part in the inspections, realised that he had been lied to (that the US was breaking the treaty as well) and defected...

    This is how we can say that, for example, Japan doesn't have a nuclear weapons program. They are scrupulously open and honest about inspection. All their plutonium is nicely stacked and labelled.....
    Actually, no. The CWC has a verification regime, but the BWC does not. This year is one of the 5-yearly Review Conferences for the BWC and the issue of verification is back on the agenda. That is why I was in the UK last week.

    PS I think your story must relate to the US, UK, Soviet trilaterals, which happened outside of the treaty apparatus.
    Yes - I was kinda blending it together. I would definitely be interested to hear what the thinking is, going forward, on the Biological Weapons Treaty.
    Youngsters and idealists want an intrusive inspection regime. Old hands, particularly those who have first hand experience of Lavrov in the UNSC - like me - and people in industry, think it's pointless:

    1. There are far too many 'biotech' facilities worldwide for inspection to even scratch the surface
    2. If weaponizing live agents, material balance approaches from the NPT and CWC make no sense
    3. The footprint is too small and getting smaller. A gene synthesizer is no bigger than a desktop printer these days.
    4. What do you inspect? Pathogen list-based approaches make no sense in a world of CRISPR, cheap genome sequencing, GWAS studies, Big Data and AI-assisted genome and protein design. How do you inspect genomes kept in silico?
    5. We live in a post-truth world. 'Proving' that someone has biological weapons or has used them is of very little real world value. Witness Lavrov on Russia not invading Ukraine.

    I could go on. My own view is that an international inspection regime is worse than useless - it is horrendously expensive, adds cost to legitimate biotech, and will be abused to undermine confidence in the BWC. Far better to have verification based at the national/policing level (so that good actors can prove they are in compliance), and focus on the organizations and individuals to normalize abhorrence of BW, IMO.

    That said, I was one of the very few 'old hands' at the meeting, and was a minority voice, even though there were a number of nodding heads around the room.
    3) in particular - I did wonder, when I was sitting in London Hackspace as someone showed me how to muck with the E. Coli genome, how long before "New Rose Hotel" is merely a matter of buying kit on Amazon.
    Already is.

    Ray Zilinskas, who wrote that big book on the Soviet BW programme, conducted a project to buy all the equipment needed to bioengineer E. coli to produce all the toxins from B. anthracis, including the bacteria. He found, with minimal resort to the dark web, that you could buy everything online for about $25k. That was back in about 2015. Sadly, Ray is no longer with us, but that issue most certainly is.
  • Apple Silicon is perhaps the biggest change in the computing industry of the last decade - and yet has gone almost completely unnoticed.

    I am very, very long on Apple.

    Urrrm, I've been wittering away about it on here for ages. The A-series chips are brilliant.

    About the first brilliant bit of tech Apple have ever done. ;)
    By the world seemingly. Apple Silicon hasn't moved much out of the tech industry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    HYUFD said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    The Tories have been in power 12 years, most governments in power that long trail. Indeed only 3 governments since WW2 have lasted that long, the 1951 to 1964 Tory government, the 1979 to 1997 Tory government and the 1997 to 2010 Labour government. They often trailed by more than 6% 12 years in
    I remember about five months ago when people were saying Labour was doomed and Starmer should resign.
    Well I never said that
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...
    FWIW if you're still in the return window for yours I'd recommend the 13" M1 Mac, I have one for work and it runs full fat Office 365 with no issues along with a whole host of other analytics apps a development environments. It's probably fairly price competitive with the Surface laptops as well.
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...
    FWIW if you're still in the return window for yours I'd recommend the 13" M1 Mac, I have one for work and it runs full fat Office 365 with no issues along with a whole host of other analytics apps a development environments. It's probably fairly price competitive with the Surface laptops as well.
    Sadly Windows Pro is a requirement. However, this Surface Pro 8 is a lovely piece of kit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    Saudi for all its faults has not invaded another neighbouring country like Russia invaded Ukraine.

    It just backed a side in the Yemen civil war and restored the previous government
    Putin's plan was to restore a previous government too.

    Have you not seen the death toll in Yemen?

    There are some other Putinesque tendencies that would be best nipped in the bud too. Misogyny, subjugation of the people and torture, imprisonment and execution of critics to name but a few. Other than that I am sure they are a very, very nice government.
    Yemen is a civil war which toppled the previous government. There was no civil war in Ukraine before Putin invaded.

    There are plenty of nasty regimes in the world, we do not go to war against them all.
    We sell high tech weaponry and munitions to your new favourite dictatorship.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774

    Apple Silicon is perhaps the biggest change in the computing industry of the last decade - and yet has gone almost completely unnoticed.

    I am very, very long on Apple.

    Me too.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    Three months and 5 days since the last Tory poll lead*.

    (* Redfield und Wilton, 6th December)
  • Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?
  • 🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    Three months and 5 days since the last Tory poll lead*.

    (* Redfield und Wilton, 6th December)
    Keep calmer and vote Starmer!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    @MaxPB I'm selling my M1 MBP entirely because 8GB of RAM is being eaten by VSCode. Apple should not be selling these machines with less than 16 but nonetheless, it's embarrassing how inefficient Chrome/Electron is

    Yeah my work Mac has got 16GB so I don't have any issues, but ultimately it's a good user experience and along the lines of other stuff I do, it just works. After trying so many different editors including Pycharm etc... VSCode really is better for the experience. I've seen JB have got their competitor launching soon, so if that's any good it will force MS to fix some of the issues or people will decamp to it as it looks a lot like VSCode in terms of core functionality.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited March 2022

    Apple Silicon is perhaps the biggest change in the computing industry of the last decade - and yet has gone almost completely unnoticed.

    I am very, very long on Apple.

    Urrrm, I've been wittering away about it on here for ages. The A-series chips are brilliant.

    About the first brilliant bit of tech Apple have ever done. ;)
    By the world seemingly. Apple Silicon hasn't moved much out of the tech industry.
    But most consumers never really know what chip is in their hardware, all they care about is does it work, especially Apple people, is does it look good, does it work well.
  • MaxPB said:

    @MaxPB I'm selling my M1 MBP entirely because 8GB of RAM is being eaten by VSCode. Apple should not be selling these machines with less than 16 but nonetheless, it's embarrassing how inefficient Chrome/Electron is

    Yeah my work Mac has got 16GB so I don't have any issues, but ultimately it's a good user experience and along the lines of other stuff I do, it just works. After trying so many different editors including Pycharm etc... VSCode really is better for the experience. I've seen JB have got their competitor launching soon, so if that's any good it will force MS to fix some of the issues or people will decamp to it as it looks a lot like VSCode in terms of core functionality.
    No doubting it's a good IDE and I use it every day for TS/Ruby but Electron is absolute ass
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    British American Tobacco will no longer sell in RU.

    Probably an advantage to Russia TBH
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Jetbrains products like pycharm are top notch.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
  • MaxPB said:

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
    I'm long on them too.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    "All UK crypto-currency cash machines (ATMs) are operating illegally and must be shut down, the Financial Conduct Authority has announced.

    Crypto-ATMs look like regular cash machines and let people buy crypto-currency, such as Bitcoin, using their bank cards. But no company offering crypto-currency services in the UK has a licence to operate a crypto-ATM."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60709209
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited March 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
    The rumours for the 4000 series nvidia cards is they will eat up any spare power !!!!!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Jetbrains products like pycharm are top notch.

    Yeah no doubt, but for multi-language development it's a nightmare not having an IDE that does Python and Typescript, at least for me. They've clearly realised this too given they are launching Fleet which does that and covers all the majors plus plug-in support.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    The biggest difference between the two countries goes to the economic sectors they thrive in and the types of management systems required to be successful in them. Russia thrives in raw material extraction, where mafia-style management can be sufficiently successful (while also being far from optimal). China excels in making much more complex stuff, which requires a lighter management approach in general. Although, of course, China has also started clamping down on the entrepreneurs.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Putin’s war of aggression against free Ukraine is not just a military affair.

    It is a battle between two concepts of society, two visions of what makes life good or bad and, at bottom, two forms of civilization.

    Our future is at stake and the fate of all those in the world who believe in democracy, still hope for freedom and wish for peace.

    Bernard-Henri Levy
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead at six points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 34% (-)
    Lab 40% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (-)
    Other 16% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 8-11 Mar 2022
    Sample: 2,003
    Changes from 3-4 Feb 2022

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1502373803598491661

    Will the Tories ever lead a poll again?

    To treat that honestly as a straight forward question. Some polling companies have it very close and Conservatives breaiking bad 35 barrier. Maybe at the moment we are seeing there is both a war bounce partly cancelled out by first slowness on sanctions and then slowness on refugees? If the rally round flag in crisis turns to anger at a Putin win, and finger pointing between previously United allies, the Tories could swiftly drop a lot (and so to could Macron in this scenario). Until then there is still hope polls here and there, Yougov or Opiniom the favourites can give Tories a March lead, so that’s the value bet this month. Once the news turns back to UK agenda and the get Boris out campaign resumes from players like Cummings, no chance of a Tory lead I think until new leader new government bounce, especially straight after party conference.
  • Jetbrains' IntelliJ for Java on the other hand, is ass
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    MaxPB said:

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
    The rumours for the 4000 series nvidia cards is they will eat up any spare power !!!!!
    Yeah the rumoured die sizes look insane. Even TSMC's better process vs Samsung won't save them!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    MaxPB said:

    Jetbrains products like pycharm are top notch.

    Yeah no doubt, but for multi-language development it's a nightmare not having an IDE that does Python and Typescript, at least for me. They've clearly realised this too given they are launching Fleet which does that and covers all the majors plus plug-in support.
    Looks like they are taking the Atom approach.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    IanB2 said:

    And the 2022 winner of the Hound group is the greyhound! From Germany

    Runner up is the whippet from Holland

    Podengo Pequeno robbed again!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    There is only one answer, to Russia, China, KSA, and any other powerful country that would use money and/or bullying tactics to get its way. That is to be prosperous and secure enough not to need the money, or be intimidated by the bullying.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    Saudi for all its faults has not invaded another neighbouring country like Russia invaded Ukraine.

    It just backed a side in the Yemen civil war and restored the previous government
    Putin's plan was to restore a previous government too.

    Have you not seen the death toll in Yemen?

    There are some other Putinesque tendencies that would be best nipped in the bud too. Misogyny, subjugation of the people and torture, imprisonment and execution of critics to name but a few. Other than that I am sure they are a very, very nice government.
    Yemen is a civil war which toppled the previous government. There was no civil war in Ukraine before Putin invaded.

    There are plenty of nasty regimes in the world, we do not go to war against them all.
    We sell high tech weaponry and munitions to your new favourite dictatorship.
    Correct me if I’m completely wrong, but also the same sort of training help we gave the Ukrainians, no?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    Jetbrains' IntelliJ for Java on the other hand, is ass

    You see the mistake you are making there is using java....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited March 2022
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
    The rumours for the 4000 series nvidia cards is they will eat up any spare power !!!!!
    Yeah the rumoured die sizes look insane. Even TSMC's better process vs Samsung won't save them!
    Well at least i won't need to pay extra for heating the office....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    I can’t agree with you Farooq. In fact this is one of your most naïve posts - with the security of our nation in danger from your thinking.

    Let’s keep it simple and deal in facts. Up till Putin massed on Ukraine border this month, the Putin and Chinese grooming of UK was identical for identical reasons, and politicians across our political party spectrum were taking the money and allowing their financial in roads.

    True or false?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    And the 2022 winner of the Hound group is the greyhound! From Germany

    Runner up is the whippet from Holland

    Podengo Pequeno robbed again!
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/83779/The-innocent-baby-boy-mauled-to-death-by-his-family-s-dogs

    Dontcha just love it. Luvly couple of breeds innit.

    2 suggestions:

    1. Streamline Crufts by having the judging done on shit samples, rather than actually bring the dogs in, because that's the main impact they have on most peoples' lives

    2. Find an online dogshit producer enthusiasts group and post on that?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    There is only one answer, to Russia, China, KSA, and any other powerful country that would use money and/or bullying tactics to get its way. That is to be prosperous and secure enough not to need the money, or be intimidated by the bullying.
    Bullying, or grooming…
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Ditto. Particularly given the grimness of the vast majority of other news.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    dixiedean said:

    Quite disturbed by a lot of the comments on here.
    The priority, right now, is stopping Putin.
    First, second and last.
    That involves persuading others that they should side with Ukraine.
    Not imposing blanket sanctions on every single government we don't approve of.
    That's salving our conscience not dealing with the matter in hand.

    So next time, when trying to deal with Chinese invasion you are happy to side with Putin?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Me too, all such innocent fun

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/dog-baby-death-reuben-mcnulty-b1990790.html
  • Does the Government have an inflation strategy?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    There is only one answer, to Russia, China, KSA, and any other powerful country that would use money and/or bullying tactics to get its way. That is to be prosperous and secure enough not to need the money, or be intimidated by the bullying.
    The establishment is full of ambitious, insecure and greedy people who do not have the money they think they deserve (but actually don't).

    No matter how rich and successful the country as a whole is such people will always be susceptible to outside money whatever its source.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Does the Government have an inflation strategy?

    Not their problem thanks to Gordon Brown.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646
    IshmaelZ said:

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Me too, all such innocent fun

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/dog-baby-death-reuben-mcnulty-b1990790.html
    “Remember - in some parts of the world they eat dogs just like this one.”
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TimT said:

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Ditto. Particularly given the grimness of the vast majority of other news.
    Not grim:

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/original-owner-beast-dog-killed-22135387

    The sort of light relief we are all so badly in need of.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Does the Government have an inflation strategy?

    To blame Covid and Putin.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    What a game!
  • dixiedean said:

    Quite disturbed by a lot of the comments on here.
    The priority, right now, is stopping Putin.
    First, second and last.
    That involves persuading others that they should side with Ukraine.
    Not imposing blanket sanctions on every single government we don't approve of.
    That's salving our conscience not dealing with the matter in hand.

    So next time, when trying to deal with Chinese invasion you are happy to side with Putin?


    'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.'

    Winston Churchill


    Extreme circumstances make for extraordinary bedfellows.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    tlg86 said:

    Does the Government have an inflation strategy?

    Not their problem thanks to Gordon Brown.
    Dealing with the effects will be, but you are correct that they do not set monetary policy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,959
    I've been using Apple computers since 1994. It was almost impossible to convince people they were better than Windows for the first 10 years.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    dixiedean said:

    Quite disturbed by a lot of the comments on here.
    The priority, right now, is stopping Putin.
    First, second and last.
    That involves persuading others that they should side with Ukraine.
    Not imposing blanket sanctions on every single government we don't approve of.
    That's salving our conscience not dealing with the matter in hand.

    Yep. The collapse of Putinism may well get some of the others to pull their horns in.

    No need to take them all on at once.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,646

    dixiedean said:

    Quite disturbed by a lot of the comments on here.
    The priority, right now, is stopping Putin.
    First, second and last.
    That involves persuading others that they should side with Ukraine.
    Not imposing blanket sanctions on every single government we don't approve of.
    That's salving our conscience not dealing with the matter in hand.

    So next time, when trying to deal with Chinese invasion you are happy to side with Putin?


    'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.'

    Winston Churchill


    Extreme circumstances make for extraordinary bedfellows.
    That’s a brilliant quote! Thank you.

    I thought I was being thoughtful and quick witted this evening, but peaked too soon I am already too bloody drunk. 😵‍💫
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 48%
    Con 23%
    LD 12%
    Grn 9%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 33%
    LD 14%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Midlands
    Con 42%
    Lab 39%
    LD 10%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 55%
    Con 30%
    LD 6%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 1%

    Wales
    Lab 39%
    Con 32%
    PC 13%
    LD 7%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 2%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 20%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 2,003; Fieldwork: 8- 11 March 2022)
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    Nick it while the crew are on their tea break?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    Does the Government have an inflation strategy?

    To blame Covid and Putin.
    That's what they say in Spain, US, Canada......
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,167
    edited March 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Quite disturbed by a lot of the comments on here.
    The priority, right now, is stopping Putin.
    First, second and last.
    That involves persuading others that they should side with Ukraine.
    Not imposing blanket sanctions on every single government we don't approve of.
    That's salving our conscience not dealing with the matter in hand.

    So next time, when trying to deal with Chinese invasion you are happy to side with Putin?


    'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.'

    Winston Churchill


    Extreme circumstances make for extraordinary bedfellows.
    Knowing that would make me somewhat cynical when that pragmatist started extolling the virtues of said extraordinary bedfellows.

    Edit: and when they backflipped on the virtues when the besties become ex besties.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,396

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    There is only one answer, to Russia, China, KSA, and any other powerful country that would use money and/or bullying tactics to get its way. That is to be prosperous and secure enough not to need the money, or be intimidated by the bullying.
    Bullying, or grooming…
    I had to read that twice, in view of the Crufts reportage today.
  • Deltapoll breaks:

    London
    Lab 48%
    Con 23%
    LD 12%
    Grn 9%
    Ref 5%

    Rest of South
    Con 43%
    Lab 33%
    LD 14%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 2%

    Midlands
    Con 42%
    Lab 39%
    LD 10%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 3%

    North
    Lab 55%
    Con 30%
    LD 6%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 1%

    Wales
    Lab 39%
    Con 32%
    PC 13%
    LD 7%
    Gen 5%
    Ref 2%

    Scotland
    SNP 48%
    Lab 20%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 3%
    Ref -

    (Sample Size: 2,003; Fieldwork: 8- 11 March 2022)

    The Red Wall is almost certainly lost for the Tories now.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    Bribery?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Ditto. Particularly given the grimness of the vast majority of other news.
    Not grim:

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/original-owner-beast-dog-killed-22135387

    The sort of light relief we are all so badly in need of.
    Very sad. Sounds like the dog needed someone really experienced to train it, but that instead it got owners who were far out of their depth with the dog.

    We feel the same way about our youngest German Shepherd - had he been our first GSD, we'd have been out of our depth. But we have had 3 prior GSDs, and so knew when we needed to get outside assistance in training him up. Now he is the best-behaved, and most enthusiastically obedient of our 3 dogs, and loving to boot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...
    My experience was completely different

    I like my iPhones and iPads, so I thought I'd try an Apple laptop

    Hideous. Awful. Clumsy. Slow. Stupid. Apple make shit laptops

    I am back with Microsoft with a Surface and it is clean and pleasing and easy
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    I guess abandoned out of fuel, until up pops a Ukranian farmer with a jerrycan.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    Eabhal said:

    What a game!

    Yep, it’s been fun so far. Thought the french were going to run riot, plucky welsh fight back.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    +1 - and for dev, you have a pretty decent UNIX

    Apple really raised the bar for consumer electronics. I use a Garmin watch - and it is painfully obvious that their UX is still a million miles behind. Much better device than the iWatch, just harder to learn to use.
    Yeah the terminal functionality in MacOS is just so much better than powershell or something along those lines from windows. It's also got a really, really good native instance of VSCode for Apple Silicon. I just find the whole experience of working, developing and editing photos/videos on Mac so much easier than it was on Windows.
    They need to get GPU acceleration support working for pytorch, tensorflow and jax.
    I doubt it will be long until Apple make this possible for their silicon, though I've mainly been running tensorflow within my GCP instance so I don't have this issue.
    I had a very interesting conversation the other day with someone about quantum entanglement and the impact on computing power… sounded exciting but a little nerve wrecking
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,155
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Surface is surely being destroyed by Apple Silicon, are they still overheating with the Intel chips?

    Tbf to Intel, they seem to be back on track again, the early signs for Raptor Lake look very good in terms of power/heat reductions and big improvement in IPC and PPW.
    The rumours for the 4000 series nvidia cards is they will eat up any spare power !!!!!
    Yeah the rumoured die sizes look insane. Even TSMC's better process vs Samsung won't save them!
    Back when the C1060 was hot stuff (I had a pre-release one), AMD was trying to FUD the Tesla range, saying that no-one could get the yield high enough to make it profitable....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,155

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    5) Ukrainian farmers steal the tank, while the crew is at the bar....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    1. Tank runs out of fuel
    2. Tank gets stuck in mud/other obstacle
    3. Mechanical or electrical failure
    4. Molotov cocktails onto air intake chokes crew out???
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    geoffw said:

    Could/should Boris persuade the Saudis to pump more oil? James Forsyth thinks so.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-holds-the-key-to-unlocking-saudi-oil

    Show them what happens if they don't.
    Knightsbridge off limits to them? That might do it.
    Start freezing assets as we've done to Russian oligarchs. Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen, we've just decided to ally ourselves with them because they have much more money than Russia.
    “ Saudi is another Putin style regime killing kids in Yemen “

    No you can’t throw that one, UK been assisting Saud in that war.

    But what we can do is identify dirty China money and influence as being the same as dirty Putin oligarch influence. Otherwise we haven’t really learnt a lesson from this have we? Putin and China been grooming our country with incoming money for a purpose, have we properly learnt the lesson just by going after ruskie mafia not the Chinese version of same thing?

    Yet again right now Boris government asleep at the wheel.
    I find it really quite unhelpful to bundle Russia and China together. We need to make distinctions because their behaviour is really quite different in some respects.
    China exerts considerable soft power and is very touchy about image, regularly complaining about the way it's represented. Russia kills dissidents abroad with reckless collateral damage.
    Russia is a repressive state which jails and kills dissidents. China is even worse.
    Russia has repeatedly engage in direct unilateral military attacks on neighbours. China has been involved in a number of large-coalition actions in the past few decades but very little egregious unilateral action.
    Both countries have been dicking around in international territory (Arctic, South China Sea) in provocative ways.
    Corruption in Russia is endemic. In China, the situation is quite poor but improving, and indices of corruption show the situation improving.

    Now these areas of concern show some overlap, but I think the differences are also quite plain. The question is, which of these problems do we prioritise and what actions do we take to mitigate them, if any?
    There is only one answer, to Russia, China, KSA, and any other powerful country that would use money and/or bullying tactics to get its way. That is to be prosperous and secure enough not to need the money, or be intimidated by the bullying.
    Bullying, or grooming…
    Are you referring to Russia or Crufts?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,155

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    No. The Ukrainians rightly, IMO, don't believe that the Russians are negotiating in good faith yet, and so it is pointless getting specific in their proposals. A key to successful negotiation is timing of extraction and release of information by the parties. Generally, he who gives up his bottom line first gets screwed. The Ukrainians are right not to say what their bottom line is before the Russians are even serious about negotiating.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    I've no interest in dog shows but I do love IanB2's Crufts reporting.

    Ditto. Particularly given the grimness of the vast majority of other news.
    Not grim:

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/original-owner-beast-dog-killed-22135387

    The sort of light relief we are all so badly in need of.
    Very sad. Sounds like the dog needed someone really experienced to train it, but that instead it got owners who were far out of their depth with the dog.

    We feel the same way about our youngest German Shepherd - had he been our first GSD, we'd have been out of our depth. But we have had 3 prior GSDs, and so knew when we needed to get outside assistance in training him up. Now he is the best-behaved, and most enthusiastically obedient of our 3 dogs, and loving to boot.
    Yes some very inexperienced new dog owners near us, without the ability to control them. Dogs need to know their place in the pecking order, and for it to be consistent.

    One family have a Neopolitan Mastiff as a first dog, and several small children. A lovely looking dog, but a real risk. Would have done much better with a small placid breed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Perhaps they should propose a maximalist position that mirrors Russia's: withdrawal of all troops, denazification of Russia, a demilitarised zone 500km from their borders and a change to the Russian constitution to prevent it joining any alliance with another state directed against Ukraine.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...
    My experience was completely different

    I like my iPhones and iPads, so I thought I'd try an Apple laptop

    Hideous. Awful. Clumsy. Slow. Stupid. Apple make shit laptops

    I am back with Microsoft with a Surface and it is clean and pleasing and easy
    But still drive it sitting in your stained underpants.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?
    I don't see why not.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569

    Priti Patel is briefing against the PM.

    Downing Street put the brakes on Home Office initiatives to allow a bigger share of Ukrainians fleeing their homeland to settle in the United Kingdom, Sky News understands.

    Home Secretary Priti Patel faced significant criticism this week from colleagues for failing to provide more routes for Ukrainians to reach the UK, prompting anger among Conservative MPs and speculation she could be removed from her role.

    Sky News understands that Number 10 played a key role in reining in two initiatives from Ms Patel, which would have opened the system up even further.


    https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-number-10-put-brakes-on-home-office-plans-for-more-generous-refugee-offer-sky-news-understands-12563556

    If it’s true, she should resign on principle.
    It'd be an amusing challenge for all of us used to thinking of Patel as Darth Vader's naughty sister to suddenly have to hail her as the heroine of liberal humanitarianism. But whatever the turth, the story suggests that relations are not good. Is there still a "next Cabinet Minister out" market?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?
    I don't think so. Have they ever made eyes at territory outside their 1991 borders?

    They just want to be left alone.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Perhaps they should propose a maximalist position that mirrors Russia's: withdrawal of all troops, denazification of Russia, a demilitarised zone 500km from their borders and a change to the Russian constitution to prevent it joining any alliance with another state directed against Ukraine.
    I think it is always a fair test of a two-party negotiation proposal to swap the names in the proposal and see if the proposer would accept it.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Evening all! Totally off topic but I have had fun* with my new work laptop. Needed upgrading from Windows 11 Home to Professional. Faff with the product key necessitated a clean install of Windows. Onto a brand new machine. To switch Home for Pro.

    Glad to see that Microsoft are still brilliant at doing silly...

    It's still pretty baffling that MS bother with home/pro versions of the same software. Just have one version, it removes so much complexity and hassle.
    Entertainingly that actually is the case for Windows 11. Pro just switches on functionality on top of the same version.

    Have to laugh. Brand new Surface Pro 8, an hour old having to have a really old keyboard plugged in with adaptors to do the new install. Proper high tech user experience!
    This is what Apple get right, I flip the Mac open and it does just work. I got a 16" M1 Max for personal use and I had no setup, just had to make a login profile and everything just worked from day one. It's such a huge difference in experience compared to windows laptops which need very heavy handholding before you get to actually use it and if something fucks up then you're into recovery modes, clean installations, fixing drivers etc...

    It's my first Mac for personal use and I have no regrets about switching from windows, even though the XPS was a very nice laptop.
    That's why I eradicated Windows completely and switched to Chrome OS. But now need full fat Office apps etc, so...
    My experience was completely different

    I like my iPhones and iPads, so I thought I'd try an Apple laptop

    Hideous. Awful. Clumsy. Slow. Stupid. Apple make shit laptops

    I am back with Microsoft with a Surface and it is clean and pleasing and easy
    But still drive it sitting in your stained underpants.
    How do you know? Has he forgotten to put the camera off?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,155

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    @BarakRavid
    New: Israeli Prime Minister Bennett told Ukraine President Zelensky he should take Putin's proposal to end war, a senior Ukrainian official said. "Bennett wants us to surrender but we have no intention of doing this", he said.


    https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1502332443902291971

    They shouldn't surrender, but they should (they may already have, I am not up to date today) offer counter proposals.
    Counter proposal: Russia surrenders and dis-arms, well its nucks anyway.
    Yes, and that would be a starting point. At the moment I'm just not sure that the Ukrainians engaging with the process. Which may be understandable because they hate the bones of Russia and would like America to sweep in and blow Putin to bits, but that's not the best solution for anyone else except Pagan2 who welcomes nuclear obliteration.
    It is understandable that you would say the Ukrainians are not engaging with the process, as that is a rather pro-Russian viewpoint to take.

    As ever, with you, comrade!
    Is it? I said I'm not up to date today - can you tell me what their response has been to the proposals outlined in a thread header here some days ago?
    Very simple.
    That they are prepared to consider compromises, but that Russia are currently de facto demanding their surrender - and until that changes there’s nothing to discuss.
    The first part is a good starting principle, and I'd agree that the Russians are effectively demanding that, which is why we need to see what the Ukrainians are proposing in response.
    If someone starts hitting me, I am not sure why the onus should be on me to propose a way for them to stop hitting me.
    Oh well, it's a good job we're dealing with characters in a Ladybird book, rather than the real world then isn't it?
    You're so sophisticated your view of the world has turned upside down.
    Whatever that means, the fact is that peace processes are not 'fair'. Justice should demand that the killers of the IRA face imprisonment for their crimes. However, clearly, an end to the troubles was and is far more important than that, hence the GFA.
    Compromises can be made in the end game, but we are clearly not there yet.

    You don't start out a negotiation by pressuring the victim to fold, by appeasement. You start by placing the pressure on the bully. You seem to think it is the victim that should be pressured at this point. I strongly disagree.
    Then let me correct you about what I think. I don't think that the Ukrainians should fold. I think they should outline their counter proposals for an end to hostilities. These would be their maximalist position, and could be total Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, reparations (which of course there will have to be anyway), etc. Then everyone can see how much distance there is between the two positions. At the moment, the Ukrainians have made some good noises, but the rest seems to be delaying tactics whilst ramping up calls for a NFZ. That's understandable from their perspective but from the perspective of a third nation, needs to be monitored.
    Surely the maximalist Ukrainian position should be Greater Ukraine?
    I don't see why not.
    hmmm

    image
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    TimT said:

    Number of captured Russian tanks has increased today from 78 to 85:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    So can the PB experts on this explain how tanks are captured.

    I can think of these ways:

    1) The crew surrender the tank
    2) The crew retreat abandoning the tank
    3) The crew desert abandoning the tank
    4) The crew are killed but the tank remains intact

    Are there any other ways ?

    1. Tank runs out of fuel
    2. Tank gets stuck in mud/other obstacle
    3. Mechanical or electrical failure
    4. Molotov cocktails onto air intake chokes crew out???
    I think your first three are covered in my second point and your fourth by my fourth.
This discussion has been closed.