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Johnson needs another string to his bow than vaccines – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 23 in General
imageJohnson needs another string to his bow than vaccines – politicalbetting.com

The above polling from Ipsos-MORI came put over the holiday period and highlights the biggest challenge facing the Tories. Undoubtedly the party has and will continue to get political credit for the vaccine programme but that cannot be the be-all and end-all of the party’s appeal. It is also nothing like as important as it was a year ago.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,215
    Test
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897

    Test

    Hopefully the rain in Sydney will stop a 5-0 whitewash.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361
    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,389

    TimT said:

    AlistairM said:

    Big issues in Australia over Covid testing: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-05/covid-testing-pcr-delays-rat-test-supply-issues/100738982

    No free LFTs there. Pharmacies breaking open multipacks and selling them for A$25 each. Massive queues for PCRs and then days waiting for results. I think we have taken for granted the success of the build out of testing capacity in the UK.

    Some of the criticism of the UK's response domestically is baffling to outsiders, given how well the UK has done relatively on a broad array of key public health measures, such as testing, genotyping, vaccination, and data collection and analysis.
    The media have been incredibly negative on everything when it comes to COVID. There really isn't any balance. I doubt most of the UK public even have any real concept of the scale of testing versus other countries, they probably still think we should be more like Germany.
    Which must be quite galling for both the Government and the relevant officials, given that the German testing effort is feeble and its output, on the population scale, is bunk. They test a small fraction of the number of people that the UK does and consequently, surprise surprise, their reported case rate is also a small fraction of the British one. Which, given that the German per capita Covid death rate is currently running a long way above that of the UK, is clearly untrue.

    I do have sympathy with the criticism of the current lack of tests that people are complaining about, not because the testing system itself is poor - it has a very high capacity compared to other nations, in the top ten in the world and by some way the best amongst any country of comparable or greater size - but because the Government has heaped a bit too much expectation upon it without thinking through the consequences. There's no point in encouraging everyone in the country to start ordering lateral flow tests to use before they go anywhere or do anything, or creating a loophole in the self-isolation rules that allows early escape with negative LFT results, if the demand that this is going to create is clearly so huge that not even the UK's large supply of tests will be sufficient to meet demand. That clearly is a failing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Boris Johnson unleashed Brexit, but is he now losing control of it? https://trib.al/GmYsRME
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    Good morning one and all. Colder/seasonable today. Spent yesterday morning in an NHS Primary Care Unit due to Mrs C needing a procedure.
    Busy, but by not 'overwhelmed'.

    Everyone, staff and patients masked and the chairs in the waiting area set apart. makes the time spent there unsociable.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,389
    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Covid testing rules will be relaxed as part of efforts to shorten isolation periods and ease the staffing shortages crippling Britain, The Telegraph reports this morning. 👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/04/covid-testing-rules-relaxed-solve-staff-shortages/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,389
    Scott_xP said:

    Covid testing rules will be relaxed as part of efforts to shorten isolation periods and ease the staffing shortages crippling Britain, The Telegraph reports this morning. 👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/04/covid-testing-rules-relaxed-solve-staff-shortages/

    Always seemed likely. The moment the staff shortages start causing more damage than a small bump in potentially infectious people out and about in public, the case for prioritising preventing the former over preventing the latter becomes unanswerable.

    The Government clearly doesn't want to do it, because this would be interpreted as an admission of failure, but it ought to be thinking about which people and which institutions need to be closely monitored and shielded by rigorous testing, as distinct from the general population which will have to begin to learn to manage without it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,833
    Scott_xP said:

    Covid testing rules will be relaxed as part of efforts to shorten isolation periods and ease the staffing shortages crippling Britain, The Telegraph reports this morning. 👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/04/covid-testing-rules-relaxed-solve-staff-shortages/

    Good stuff.

    BTW Scott, have you found that lie you were accusing Liz Truss of yet?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,833
    edited January 5
    Morning all.

    Busy day.

    That "dealing with climate change" is an interesting metric, as we are some way ahead of all comparable countries in Europe in dealing with it.

    We'll have met the EU "-55 for 2030" target before the end of this Parliament.

    As usual, BJ's useless, f*cked up messaging.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,389

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Nobody is forcing cautious people like yourself to go out and do anything. Anyway, that's beside the point: there is little or nothing in the data from the UK or abroad to suggest that mild-to-moderate restrictions work against Omicron (the jury's still out on the Dutch hard lockdown experiment.) Shifting the dial a couple of notches one way or another is something-must-be-done-ism and is for show.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    MattW said:

    BTW Scott, have you found that lie you were accusing Liz Truss of yet?

    The lie was posted on a previous thread. I am not your search engine.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,457
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Covid testing rules will be relaxed as part of efforts to shorten isolation periods and ease the staffing shortages crippling Britain, The Telegraph reports this morning. 👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/04/covid-testing-rules-relaxed-solve-staff-shortages/

    Always seemed likely. The moment the staff shortages start causing more damage than a small bump in potentially infectious people out and about in public, the case for prioritising preventing the former over preventing the latter becomes unanswerable.

    The Government clearly doesn't want to do it, because this would be interpreted as an admission of failure, but it ought to be thinking about which people and which institutions need to be closely monitored and shielded by rigorous testing, as distinct from the general population which will have to begin to learn to manage without it.
    There appears to be two schools of thought to end the staffing crisis. More rigorous testing, or cut the isolation period.

    Both of these avoid the reality that infection rates are through the roof. Test more and you get more people off. But even if we cut you get more people off. Because employers trying to keep going are not going to risk the entire rest of the staffing pool for one person.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Nobody is forcing cautious people like yourself to go out and do anything. Anyway, that's beside the point: there is little or nothing in the data from the UK or abroad to suggest that mild-to-moderate restrictions work against Omicron (the jury's still out on the Dutch hard lockdown experiment.) Shifting the dial a couple of notches one way or another is something-must-be-done-ism and is for show.
    TBH, my feathered friend, I don't feel like going to the cinema etc not only in my own interest but in those of other people. I look at the conditions under which my elder grandchildren are working ..... all in education ...... and under which my young grandchildren are being educated and I feel very concerned indeed. There's enough pressure on teachers anyway, without adding this. And while I know that young people are resilient, there may well be some short and medium term psychological problems down the track.

    Same applies, of course, to their parents working conditions, although because of what they do, the rules do not bear down quite so hard.

    So I want Covid, of which ever variety done and dusted, or at least livable with, as soon as possible.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,457
    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Busy day.

    That "dealing with climate change" is an interesting metric, as we are some way ahead of all comparable countries in Europe in dealing with it.

    We'll have met the EU "-55 for 2030" target before the end of this Parliament.

    As usual, BJ's useless, f*cked up messaging.

    There’s a huge perception disconnect, between what’s actually happening in the world, and what people think of it. It’s mostly driven by social media, crap legacy media now operating for clicks and likes, and campaign groups for whom no action on any issue is ever enough.

    Here’s an American viewpoint of the same (with, of course, a clickbait title)
    https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-wokeism-is-a-religion

    Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker’s book “Rationality” also explores these and many other issues in depth. Pandemic aside, the world is in the best place it’s ever been at the moment, not that you would think that from watching TV news and doomscrolling Facebook. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/books/review/rationality-steven-pinker.html
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361
    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,457
    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    edited January 5
    Cookie said:

    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?

    I have to say that even for me that sounds over the top. Health of course is a State responsibility in Oz (or at least I think it is), but that sounds odd when compared with the treatment of Djokovic .... who, I think, is playing the 'the rules don't apply to ME' card.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024

    the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.

    Putting self interest before party interest?

    They are learning at the feet of the master and taking their lead from BoZo...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,680
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Busy day.

    That "dealing with climate change" is an interesting metric, as we are some way ahead of all comparable countries in Europe in dealing with it.

    We'll have met the EU "-55 for 2030" target before the end of this Parliament.

    As usual, BJ's useless, f*cked up messaging.

    There’s a huge perception disconnect, between what’s actually happening in the world, and what people think of it. It’s mostly driven by social media, crap legacy media now operating for clicks and likes, and campaign groups for whom no action on any issue is ever enough.

    Here’s an American viewpoint of the same (with, of course, a clickbait title)
    https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-wokeism-is-a-religion

    Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker’s book “Rationality” also explores these and many other issues in depth. Pandemic aside, the world is in the best place it’s ever been at the moment, not that you would think that from watching TV news and doomscrolling Facebook. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/books/review/rationality-steven-pinker.html
    Well, leaving that aside, how did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,723

    Cookie said:

    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?

    I have to say that even for me that sounds over the top. Health of course is a State responsibility in Oz (or at least I think it is), but that sounds odd when compared with the treatment of Djokovic .... who, I think, is playing the 'the rules don't apply to ME' card.
    The Novak Djokovic story has made me unaccustomedly angry. There's not way in heck the Aussies should be allowing him to play.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    edited January 5

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that make sense - no member of the general public should, instruct someone clueful who knows when to keep quiet and makes points that are valid.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
    Yes, the ‘stupid English’ are free to go about their business, go to nightclubs and rugby matches, without their healthcare system becoming overwhelmed by the nasty virus that’s going round.

    It increasingly looks like this new variant can’t be stopped outside the Chinese version of a lockdown, it’s unlikely that banning outdoor crowds is going to do much about it. I imagine that the famously sanguine Scottish football crowds will shortly take to the streets on match days, if there continues to be a difference between Scotland and England in how such crowds are treated.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Covid testing rules will be relaxed as part of efforts to shorten isolation periods and ease the staffing shortages crippling Britain, The Telegraph reports this morning. 👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/04/covid-testing-rules-relaxed-solve-staff-shortages/

    Good stuff.

    BTW Scott, have you found that lie you were accusing Liz Truss of yet?
    It wasn’t Liz Truss but her spokesman. The spokesman (apparently) originally said they booked the more expensive option because of short notice and lack of alternatives.

    He’s got worked up about that. Rather than looking at whether the expenditure was reasonable in the context of what it was trying to achieve.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361

    Cookie said:

    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?

    I have to say that even for me that sounds over the top. Health of course is a State responsibility in Oz (or at least I think it is), but that sounds odd when compared with the treatment of Djokovic .... who, I think, is playing the 'the rules don't apply to ME' card.

    Cookie said:

    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?

    I have to say that even for me that sounds over the top. Health of course is a State responsibility in Oz (or at least I think it is), but that sounds odd when compared with the treatment of Djokovic .... who, I think, is playing the 'the rules don't apply to ME' card.
    I should probably re-emphasise that this is something I have heard of through my sister-in-law, so is perhaps more likely to be true but also more likely to miss some nuance than anything from a suitably fact-checked source (i.e. is this still a requirement? Was it just Queensland? Were there some other special circumstances?)
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 198
    anecdote alert

    A nurse friend who works in a high dependency ward at a major London teaching hospital tells me that they are no longer putting vaccination status on the bedside notes as the staff get so annoyed at the (very) high numbers of the unvaccinated they are dealing with
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,496
    eek said:

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that makes sense - no member of the general public should...
    The mayor is an elected official with planning powers and responsibilities. Not exactly a 'member of the public'.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I'm not convinced your logic holds up though.
    The only way we will be done with this virus is by everybody who is going to get it, getting it.
    Hopefully you and I fall into the category of people who are not going to get it, being triple jabbed and having already had it.
    There is an argument - though I'm not sure I buy it - that things like not having large scale sporting events is worthwhile for the impact it will have in slowing the spread sufficiently to ease the burden on public services. Flattening the sombrero, as it were. But it's always been recognised that flattening the sombrero also means lengthening the sombrero.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,146
    edited January 5
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cookie said:

    64,735 new cases in Australia.
    Which is of a similar order of magnitude to what we have in the UK.
    Not, of course, that headline case factors are that comparable between countries.
    But my understanding is that in Australia (or at least in Queensland) anyone testing positive for covid is required to spend two weeks isolating in hospital. (This was certainly the case in late 2021: my sister-in-law's partner's father spent two pointless and boring weeks on his own in a hospital having tested positive for covid). Presumably this is having a rather bigger impact on the Australian health service than whatever it is we are currently doing here?

    I have to say that even for me that sounds over the top. Health of course is a State responsibility in Oz (or at least I think it is), but that sounds odd when compared with the treatment of Djokovic .... who, I think, is playing the 'the rules don't apply to ME' card.
    The Novak Djokovic story has made me unaccustomedly angry. There's not way in heck the Aussies should be allowing him to play.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203
    I agree. He’s been so high profile about his beliefs it clearly looks like they are breaking the rules for him
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,009

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    It didn’t take the Tories long to get into the swing of things up there?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will thins work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    Presumably the change is for government statistics reasons, they’re now accepting the LFTs are proof of contracting the virus, but the PCR tests are still available if required or requested?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    edited January 5
    Cookie said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I'm not convinced your logic holds up though.
    The only way we will be done with this virus is by everybody who is going to get it, getting it.
    Hopefully you and I fall into the category of people who are not going to get it, being triple jabbed and having already had it.
    There is an argument - though I'm not sure I buy it - that things like not having large scale sporting events is worthwhile for the impact it will have in slowing the spread sufficiently to ease the burden on public services. Flattening the sombrero, as it were. But it's always been recognised that flattening the sombrero also means lengthening the sombrero.
    Fair comment. Obviously the advisable course of action is debatable.
    Mrs C and I have had it; not sure where we caught it. Went for a holiday, in UK, met all sorts of people in all sorts of circumstances and tested positive when we returned!
    However no family members with whom we were in contact subsequently tested positive!
    Your point about the sombrero is, of course, valid.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I did. I paraphrase but it said that you were worried for your kids and grandkids and therefore @Cookie and @BartholomewRoberts should be locked up to preserve your peace of mind.

    What’s the justification for infringing their rights?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    It doesn’t make a difference. An employer can apply a higher standard if they wish, subject to SSP rules.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    edited January 5
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that makes sense - no member of the general public should...
    The mayor is an elected official with planning powers and responsibilities. Not exactly a 'member of the public'.
    The Tees Valley mayor has planning responsibilities? Because quoting from https://www.stockton.gov.uk/our-council/elections-and-voting/elections-and-past-results/tees-valley-combined-authority-mayoral-election/

    The Mayor and Combined Authority do not replace, nor can they overrule, local councils.

    And planning especially development control is the responsibility of the local council...

    Anything else you would like to say without checking basic facts?

    I await evidence to contradict the above or an apology...

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that makes sense - no member of the general public should...
    The mayor is an elected official with planning powers and responsibilities. Not exactly a 'member of the public'.
    The Tees Valley mayor has planning responsibilities? Because quoting from https://www.stockton.gov.uk/our-council/elections-and-voting/elections-and-past-results/tees-valley-combined-authority-mayoral-election/

    The Mayor and Combined Authority do not replace, nor can they overrule, local councils.

    And planning especially development control is the responsibility of the local council...

    Anything else you would like to say without checking basic facts?

    Tories BAAAAD

    😁
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    It doesn’t make a difference. An employer can apply a higher standard if they wish, subject to SSP rules.
    Since December 10th no sick note for SSP until 28 days (I know as I checked for another forum earlier today).

    I suspect the response is - I suspect I have Covid, can I have your demand to come into the office in writing as Health and Safety are going to be very interested...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,496
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    Had this been policy by autumn 2020, as I argued at the time, we'd have saved perhaps £20bn, and almost certainly have been better at suppressing waves of infection.
    A large proportion of the enormous quantity of slow and expensive PCR tests, and the track & trace effort, were a waste of time.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    It doesn’t make a difference. An employer can apply a higher standard if they wish, subject to SSP rules.
    Since December 10th no sick note for SSP until 28 days (I know as I checked for another forum earlier today).

    I suspect the response is - I suspect I have Covid, can I have your demand to come into the office in writing as Health and Safety are going to be very interested...
    Although asking someone to take a free PCR (and presumably stay away until that is done) is not unreasonable
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    It doesn’t make a difference. An employer can apply a higher standard if they wish, subject to SSP rules.
    Since December 10th no sick note for SSP until 28 days (I know as I checked for another forum earlier today).

    I suspect the response is - I suspect I have Covid, can I have your demand to come into the office in writing as Health and Safety are going to be very interested...
    Although asking someone to take a free PCR (and presumably stay away until that is done) is not unreasonable
    I think the issue here is potential capacity issues - so they don't want to be wasting PCR processing time unnecessarily.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I did. I paraphrase but it said that you were worried for your kids and grandkids and therefore @Cookie and @BartholomewRoberts should be locked up to preserve your peace of mind.

    What’s the justification for infringing their rights?
    Incidentally, I have a, perhaps peculiar, dislike of the word 'kids' when referring to 'children'.

    When I was a child, during WWII I lived on Canvey Island. Visits to and by my paternal grandparents, who only lived about 20 miles away, were limited, because Canvey, like other coastal areas was 'restricted'. Reflecting on this an adult I came to the conclusion that it was reasonable to do so, given that there was a threat of invasion.
    I have not, and don't think I've ever suggested, that I wanted people 'locked up to preserve 'my' peace of mind'; I've indicated that I can see a case for restrictions on large social, sporting or whatever events to reduce disruption to the economy.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    Had this been policy by autumn 2020, as I argued at the time, we'd have saved perhaps £20bn, and almost certainly have been better at suppressing waves of infection.
    A large proportion of the enormous quantity of slow and expensive PCR tests, and the track & trace effort, were a waste of time.

    The entire track and trace effort was a waste of money - PCRs are a different matter and until Omicron it made sense to see what people actually had
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,023
    The interesting thing about that poll is that only one of the questions relates to the dominating event of the last two years, and it's undoubtedly the government's favourite question on that subject.

    It would be very surprising if it was the only opinion related to the pandemic that influenced voters' views of the government. Voters don't usually oblige politicians in that way.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,533
    pigeon said:

    TimT said:

    AlistairM said:

    Big issues in Australia over Covid testing: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-05/covid-testing-pcr-delays-rat-test-supply-issues/100738982

    No free LFTs there. Pharmacies breaking open multipacks and selling them for A$25 each. Massive queues for PCRs and then days waiting for results. I think we have taken for granted the success of the build out of testing capacity in the UK.

    Some of the criticism of the UK's response domestically is baffling to outsiders, given how well the UK has done relatively on a broad array of key public health measures, such as testing, genotyping, vaccination, and data collection and analysis.
    The media have been incredibly negative on everything when it comes to COVID. There really isn't any balance. I doubt most of the UK public even have any real concept of the scale of testing versus other countries, they probably still think we should be more like Germany.
    Which must be quite galling for both the Government and the relevant officials, given that the German testing effort is feeble and its output, on the population scale, is bunk. They test a small fraction of the number of people that the UK does and consequently, surprise surprise, their reported case rate is also a small fraction of the British one. Which, given that the German per capita Covid death rate is currently running a long way above that of the UK, is clearly untrue.

    I do have sympathy with the criticism of the current lack of tests that people are complaining about, not because the testing system itself is poor - it has a very high capacity compared to other nations, in the top ten in the world and by some way the best amongst any country of comparable or greater size - but because the Government has heaped a bit too much expectation upon it without thinking through the consequences. There's no point in encouraging everyone in the country to start ordering lateral flow tests to use before they go anywhere or do anything, or creating a loophole in the self-isolation rules that allows early escape with negative LFT results, if the demand that this is going to create is clearly so huge that not even the UK's large supply of tests will be sufficient to meet demand. That clearly is a failing.
    The higher current death rate is more because the UK has a small fraction of the number of vulnerable people with no immunity from vaccination or prior immunity compared to Germany.

    Apart from the admittedly pathetic "pause" because of the Christmas holidays (see also vaccination numbers the last 2 weeks), there has been plenty of testing in Germany. For example, where I am everyone in secondary schools is tested 3 times a week (afaik it is only twice a week in England?). Primary schools and kindergartens test twice a week with a pooled PCR test. None of these tests appear in any statistics that I am aware of (nor the millions of antigen tests done elsewhere every day) so it's actually very difficult to get any numbers of how many tests are being done, so I'd like to see a source for your "small fraction". You can probably get an OK idea of how many PCR tests are being done (although still some differences in counting methods) - and here the UK is doing more per capita, but quite a lot of PCR tests are done after a positive antigen test so comparison is still tricky.

    I don't think there's any doubt numbers in Germany have generally been lower over the last few months. Indeed plenty of people on here making the (I think a bit simplistic) argument that Germany should have tried to have as many infections as the UK over the last months in order to have more people with immunity (or already dead) by this point.

    I expect we'll see some pretty big numbers in the next couple of weeks. Anecdotally, my wife's hospital had the first outbreak in the hospital since the start of the pandemic last week. My son's primary school hasn't had an outbreak yet, neither have other several other local schools I know about.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    I don't think she is a 'Cameron tool'.
    She is clearly from the Cameroon wing of the party and Boris is presumably no more to his taste than to Cameron's.
    But my reading is she is writing this in a personal capacity - I see no reason not to infer these are her views. I don't think Cameron is acting as some behind-the-scenes svengali. If he is, he's hiding it remarkably well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,271
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I did. I paraphrase but it said that you were worried for your kids and grandkids and therefore @Cookie and @BartholomewRoberts should be locked up to preserve your peace of mind.

    What’s the justification for infringing their rights?
    I don't think OKC has called for infringing anyone's rights. Just behaving cautiously himself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,496
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that makes sense - no member of the general public should...
    The mayor is an elected official with planning powers and responsibilities. Not exactly a 'member of the public'.
    The Tees Valley mayor has planning responsibilities? Because quoting from https://www.stockton.gov.uk/our-council/elections-and-voting/elections-and-past-results/tees-valley-combined-authority-mayoral-election/

    The Mayor and Combined Authority do not replace, nor can they overrule, local councils.

    And planning especially development control is the responsibility of the local council...

    Anything else you would like to say without checking basic facts?

    I await evidence to contradict the above or an apology...

    Did I say he has power to overrule ?
    Don't be silly.

    Housing in the region is very much within his remit, though. Which makes him a rather more interested party than a member of the public.
    https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TVCA207-SEP-Document-Full-WEB.pdf
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    edited January 5
    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costa coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Back to work today (though technically still on medical leave). Actually looking forward to it! :)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,545
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    Had this been policy by autumn 2020, as I argued at the time, we'd have saved perhaps £20bn, and almost certainly have been better at suppressing waves of infection.
    A large proportion of the enormous quantity of slow and expensive PCR tests, and the track & trace effort, were a waste of time.

    Does this mean we will miss picking up the next variant? Only PCR tests are scanned for mutations iirc.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I did. I paraphrase but it said that you were worried for your kids and grandkids and therefore @Cookie and @BartholomewRoberts should be locked up to preserve your peace of mind.

    What’s the justification for infringing their rights?
    [SNIP] Incidentally, I have a, perhaps peculiar, dislike of the word 'kids' when referring to 'children'.

    I admire a battle being fought like that long after it has been lost!

    Similarly, I have a particular dislike of the words 'horrid' in place of 'horrible'; 'movie' in place of 'film' ;and 'dessert' in place of 'pudding'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,496
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    Had this been policy by autumn 2020, as I argued at the time, we'd have saved perhaps £20bn, and almost certainly have been better at suppressing waves of infection.
    A large proportion of the enormous quantity of slow and expensive PCR tests, and the track & trace effort, were a waste of time.

    The entire track and trace effort was a waste of money - PCRs are a different matter and until Omicron it made sense to see what people actually had
    We could have done that with about 10% of the tests we actually used.
    You're correct that PCR is a diagnostic tool - but as an infection control tool it's vastly inferior to LFTs.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    edited January 5
    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costs coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Martin Lewis being all over the place with energy costs isn't surprising. There is no easy (heck I don't think there is any) fix that works here.

    Any solution you come up with ends up creating a slightly different issue elsewhere impacting a different set of people.

    The irony is that the correct way to fix this would be a large increase in Universal Credit and Pensions and let the system (and everyone else) take care of itself but I cannot see any Government being willing to do so.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    I don't think she is a 'Cameron tool'.
    She is clearly from the Cameroon wing of the party and Boris is presumably no more to his taste than to Cameron's.
    But my reading is she is writing this in a personal capacity - I see no reason not to infer these are her views. I don't think Cameron is acting as some behind-the-scenes svengali. If he is, he's hiding it remarkably well.
    Agreed. And remember that Johnson has always been a net negative north of the border - she represents that view.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,448
    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costa coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Back to work today (though technically still on medical leave). Actually looking forward to it! :)

    It looks like the government of Kazakhstan is going to fall over energy costs. They won't be the last.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,271
    We know that Omicron cases include many more reinfections than previous variants., 10-15% of cases are reinfections. These are not included in the reported numbers in the UK, except in Wales which does include them. How do other countries address this issue?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/scientists-call-covid-reinfections-uk-be-included-case-figures-omicron?s=09

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Eabhal said:

    Agreed. And remember that Johnson has always been a net negative north of the border - she represents that view.

    She is also right.

    BoZo is a moral stain on the office that can only be removed with him
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costs coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Martin Lewis being all over the place with energy costs isn't surprising. There is no easy (heck I don't think there is any) fix that works here.

    Any solution you come up with ends up creating a slightly different issue elsewhere impacting a different set of people.

    The irony is that the correct way to fix this would be a large increase in Universal Credit and Pensions and let the system (and everyone else) take care of itself but I cannot see any Government being willing to do so.
    I might be brave enough to ask if my employer has any measures to counter this for our minimum wage staff etc. Just wonder if it will seed a bit of opposition to the WFH rules up here.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,271
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    Had this been policy by autumn 2020, as I argued at the time, we'd have saved perhaps £20bn, and almost certainly have been better at suppressing waves of infection.
    A large proportion of the enormous quantity of slow and expensive PCR tests, and the track & trace effort, were a waste of time.

    The entire track and trace effort was a waste of money - PCRs are a different matter and until Omicron it made sense to see what people actually had
    We could have done that with about 10% of the tests we actually used.
    You're correct that PCR is a diagnostic tool - but as an infection control tool it's vastly inferior to LFTs.
    Plenty of people that I meet have had negative LFT but positive PCR and to a degree vice versa. I think a confirmatory PCR is probably wise.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    There are several problems with the Tories having only one string to their bow, but the main one is ‘shelf-life’.

    Every other topic listed on the graph is a permafeature of politics. Vaccines is just a story, and stories come and go.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costs coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Martin Lewis being all over the place with energy costs isn't surprising. There is no easy (heck I don't think there is any) fix that works here.

    Any solution you come up with ends up creating a slightly different issue elsewhere impacting a different set of people.

    The irony is that the correct way to fix this would be a large increase in Universal Credit and Pensions and let the system (and everyone else) take care of itself but I cannot see any Government being willing to do so.
    The problem with that idea, would be that it becomes politically impossible to reverse when energy prices fall.

    You’re right that there’s no good options from here though, except to start fracking and quickly. Some polling on the priority of “Net Zero” might be useful, now that people are starting to understand the costs of it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Ministers expected to scrap requirement for PCRs to confirm positive LFT this week.

    Health minister Gillian Keegan tells me it will rely on people “doing the right thing” and registering their LFT.

    This chart from Sunday Times shows the difference between the two 👇
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1478630006024810506/photo/1

    How will this work for employers who insist on a positive PCR to sanction sick leave? They are unlikely to take a home LFT as evidence surely?
    It doesn’t make a difference. An employer can apply a higher standard if they wish, subject to SSP rules.
    Since December 10th no sick note for SSP until 28 days (I know as I checked for another forum earlier today).

    I suspect the response is - I suspect I have Covid, can I have your demand to come into the office in writing as Health and Safety are going to be very interested...
    Although asking someone to take a free PCR (and presumably stay away until that is done) is not unreasonable
    I think the issue here is potential capacity issues - so they don't want to be wasting PCR processing time unnecessarily.
    That’s exactly why the government is doing it and it makes perfect sense. But if a corporate wants to do more they can & it’s not unreasonable on a standalone basis
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,000
    Soft lockdown incoming in Hong Kong. Entertainment being shut, restaurants after 6pm shut and before then restricted numbers per table.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-05/hong-kong-bans-five-more-flight-routes-as-omicron-besieges-city
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,845

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    Yet Boris won more Scottish MPs than Cameron ever did and on the latest Scottish subsample of the latest poll the Scottish Conservatives are even back up to 28%
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    edited January 5
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costs coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Martin Lewis being all over the place with energy costs isn't surprising. There is no easy (heck I don't think there is any) fix that works here.

    Any solution you come up with ends up creating a slightly different issue elsewhere impacting a different set of people.

    The irony is that the correct way to fix this would be a large increase in Universal Credit and Pensions and let the system (and everyone else) take care of itself but I cannot see any Government being willing to do so.
    The problem with that idea, would be that it becomes politically impossible to reverse when energy prices fall.

    You’re right that there’s no good options from here though, except to start fracking and quickly. Some polling on the priority of “Net Zero” might be useful, now that people are starting to understand the costs of it.
    A lot of our energy policy does seem mad in these circumstances. I'm as pro-renewables as anyone, but the fact we import so much of our gas (a big chunk from Qatar, apparently) rather than the North Sea is stupid on environmental, security and cost grounds.

    And not building a few Nuclear stations to tide us over to 100% green energy by 2050 or whatever was stupid too. Only last year my friends in energy were discussing the prospect of energy becoming more like water in its cheap, universal provision and the implications for economic growth that would bring....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    Sometimes, reading what people write about the restrictions, one would think some correspondents believe that the authorities impose these for fun, or to satisfy some power lust.

    Even as someone who is triple-vaccinated and has grown some of his own immunity as a result of having the virus, I'd be chary about going to a game. Haven't, for example, been to the cinema since all this started! And the cinema Mrs C and I go to is often only half, or less, full at the time we go!
    Isn’t that exactly the point?

    You are in a different risk category given your age and therefore may wish to take a more cautious view than a @Cookie or a @BartholomewRoberts

    That is entirely your right. But it’s their right to run a different risk profile.

    Given that vaccination very substantially reduces the risk of serious disease there is no longer a strong case for infringing their rights to protect you.
    See my reply to our feathered friend at 7.15.
    I did. I paraphrase but it said that you were worried for your kids and grandkids and therefore @Cookie and @BartholomewRoberts should be locked up to preserve your peace of mind.

    What’s the justification for infringing their rights?
    I don't think OKC has called for infringing anyone's rights. Just behaving cautiously himself.
    He was critical of people criticising the authorities imposing rules and then segued into why he personally was cautious. I made an inference, but a reasonable one I think
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    A brilliant piece of investigative reporting into planning fandangos on Teesside. Local Tories up in arms about housing proposal, but their mate the mayor is silent. Then you look at who his donors are...

    https://t.co/jmtLLvW591

    Planning inspectorate grants permission for houses.

    Sorry but any sane person would do the same as what is done has been done and clearly Stockton don’t have decent planners*

    * this is a given, when the top rate for a public sector planner is £40,000 anyone good moves to the private sector quickly.
    Point is that people don't want them. Tory voters. Tory MP. Despite me being told the opposite. Nor does having a local plan and shitloads of houses being built protect you from being overridden by the same planning inspector. Despite being told "if you had a local plan you can stop these developments".

    I did enjoy the dig into who the mayor's donors are. This is twice now he has trampled on a local Tory MP - the previous mega coalition of Tories all firing on the same front down there is collapsing fast.
    Go and read the appeal statement itself - https://acp.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?fileid=45473973

    Stockton council basically gives it the nod as the traffic scheme is redesigned.

    If you point is that a mayor isn't trying to get involved in planning appeals than that makes sense - no member of the general public should...
    The mayor is an elected official with planning powers and responsibilities. Not exactly a 'member of the public'.
    The Tees Valley mayor has planning responsibilities? Because quoting from https://www.stockton.gov.uk/our-council/elections-and-voting/elections-and-past-results/tees-valley-combined-authority-mayoral-election/

    The Mayor and Combined Authority do not replace, nor can they overrule, local councils.

    And planning especially development control is the responsibility of the local council...

    Anything else you would like to say without checking basic facts?

    I await evidence to contradict the above or an apology...

    Did I say he has power to overrule ?
    Don't be silly.

    Housing in the region is very much within his remit, though. Which makes him a rather more interested party than a member of the public.
    https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TVCA207-SEP-Document-Full-WEB.pdf
    Go and read that 2016 Economic plan and then the appeal statement.

    What is being offered within the scheme reflects Ben's housing policy (brown(ish) site, more rented housing)..

    But equally the Mayors rule is strategic - the economic plan should be reflected within the local plan of the 5 member councils.

    The actually reality is outside the Mayors control (although granted it's hard to see round here as he is incredibly good at getting his name on things that aren't his actual responsibility).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
    Why is the English setting their own rules for stadia in England behaving “like arseholes”?

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 1,385
    So no 10 have found a method to reduce positive cases being reported . Without the requirement for a PCR test Bozo can call victory .
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    Yet Boris won more Scottish MPs than Cameron ever did and on the latest Scottish subsample of the latest poll the Scottish Conservatives are even back up to 28%
    Nonsense. That was all down to May in 2017 (13 seats) - Johnson lost 7 seats in 2019.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costs coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Martin Lewis being all over the place with energy costs isn't surprising. There is no easy (heck I don't think there is any) fix that works here.

    Any solution you come up with ends up creating a slightly different issue elsewhere impacting a different set of people.

    The irony is that the correct way to fix this would be a large increase in Universal Credit and Pensions and let the system (and everyone else) take care of itself but I cannot see any Government being willing to do so.
    The problem with that idea, would be that it becomes politically impossible to reverse when energy prices fall.

    You’re right that there’s no good options from here though, except to start fracking and quickly. Some polling on the priority of “Net Zero” might be useful, now that people are starting to understand the costs of it.
    The reason I suggest it is because I don't think energy prices are going to reverse.

    They may reduce a bit but I cannot see them returning to 2020 levels.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    edited January 5
    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
    Why is the English setting their own rules for stadia in England behaving “like arseholes”?

    It's a bit aggressive, trying to 'steal' the games from Murrayfield. Could backfire - timing is everything, particularly of Sturgeon is overly hesitant on opening stuff up.

    Not sure how football v rugby fans compare. Rugby slightly more SNP?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,845
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    Yet Boris won more Scottish MPs than Cameron ever did and on the latest Scottish subsample of the latest poll the Scottish Conservatives are even back up to 28%
    Nonsense. That was all down to May in 2017 (13 seats) - Johnson lost 7 seats in 2019.
    The latest Scottish subsample from Redfield has the SCons back up to 28%, just 1% below what May got in 2017 and miles ahead of the just 15% they got under Cameron in 2015
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
    Previous posters applauded this story as a political masterpiece. It really, really isn’t.

    Kudos to Charles for thinking twice. All too rare in the modern iteration of the Conservative Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    Yet Boris won more Scottish MPs than Cameron ever did and on the latest Scottish subsample of the latest poll the Scottish Conservatives are even back up to 28%
    Nonsense. That was all down to May in 2017 (13 seats) - Johnson lost 7 seats in 2019.
    The latest Scottish subsample from Redfield has the SCons back up to 28%, just 1% below what May got in 2017 and miles ahead of the just 15% they got under Cameron in 2015
    Subsamples, eh? Whit can ye dae wi em?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    Eabhal said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
    Why is the English setting their own rules for stadia in England behaving “like arseholes”?

    It's a bit aggressive, trying to 'steal' the games from Murrayfield. Could backfire - timing is everything, particularly of Sturgeon is overly hesitant on opening stuff up.

    Not sure how football v rugby fans compare. Rugby slightly more SNP?
    It’s the Six Nations organisers exploring their options, not the “English” government.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,386
    OK. Let's stop this self-serving horse shit that the course of Omicron was utterly uninfluencable by restrictions except the most Draconian, so why bother. Yes, light measures wouldn't have taken Rt below 1, but achieving a slowing from 1.7 to 1.5 would have been worth it to flatten the curve a little, to reduce the peak. I fully accepted the Delta thinking, poorly explained, that it was about flow control rather than prevention, but HMG threw flow control out of the window as well for political weakness and expediency.

    I don't exactly agree with the Scottish measures either, but it should be noted that the Central Belt was ready to explode at the same point as London and they have successfully delayed and likely lowered a massive peak. (Wale's late measures, not so much yet).

    So, is it too late now or is that also self-serving horse shit? I don't think we have much influence on the peak at this stage, but is a degree of suppression and of re-establishing flow control beyond the peak worth it, is helping NHS recovery worth it? If the measures can be found, then, yes.

    So what is the problem. Not cases, not deaths this time, but hospital capacity, both from bed occupation and staff absence. And let's be clear the bed occupation is still 'for COVID' - the proportion of 'fors' may have dropped (75->65%) but this is not a withdemic - that is another bit of self-serving bolleaux.

    London looks beyond peak, but any kick on in New Year, a single doubling - likely outer London led - looks NHS fatal at this stage and is certainly not beyond the realms.

    So let's start slowing the right things. I'm not on the pub closing page, here, I'm still on the restricting the unvaccinated in a proportionate way for their own health and for health provision for all:

    - Ban unvaccinated and never registered positive over 18s from pubs, sit down restaurants, entertainment venues, from close contact personal care and from household mixing except for care giving.
    - Ban not boosted (or double vaccinated plus infected) over 60s in the same way.
    - Too late to set up Vaxports as the central gatekeeper of this or business to enforce. Compliance is an individual responsibility, and 7 days at a police station to prove status would do, as per driving.
    - Strongly advise critical workers to follow the same guidelines as the unvaccinated wherever possible.
    - Strong message to all other to prioritise the contacts most important to them, whatever those are - properly government led, not Whitty as a lone voice.
    - Testing and earlier returns for critical workers (as soon as negative)
    - For the unvaccinated, non clinically urgent hospital attendances should be delayed, where there is a clear clinical benefit to the unvaccinated avoiding Omicronny settings.

    A lot of Omicron will still find these people in more roundabout ways, but every person who catches it in February rather than January is a win and this should start to make a difference quickly if done.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
    Why is the English setting their own rules for stadia in England behaving “like arseholes”?

    It's a bit aggressive, trying to 'steal' the games from Murrayfield. Could backfire - timing is everything, particularly of Sturgeon is overly hesitant on opening stuff up.

    Not sure how football v rugby fans compare. Rugby slightly more SNP?
    It’s the Six Nations organisers exploring their options, not the “English” government.
    Who cares. That is what Sturgeon will portray it as: "Irresponsible English taking advantage of sensible Scots rules to sow division" etc etc
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,705
    nico679 said:

    So no 10 have found a method to reduce positive cases being reported . Without the requirement for a PCR test Bozo can call victory .

    Yes and no. The new system relies on people doing "the right thing". Which obvs they won't for much of the time. And hence we are back to people determining what is the appropriate level of risk to bear and how they want society to function, even if that turns out to be one which is full of active Covid carriers.

    Interesting on R4 two Health bods and the discussion has moved to more of a cry for help (of the type seen every year for the past n years) rather than demands for any Covid-specific measures.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
    Previous posters applauded this story as a political masterpiece. It really, really isn’t.

    Kudos to Charles for thinking twice. All too rare in the modern iteration of the Conservative Party.
    Yes, though a small point: "stupid UKG" would be more accurate, obvs.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    anecdote alert

    A nurse friend who works in a high dependency ward at a major London teaching hospital tells me that they are no longer putting vaccination status on the bedside notes as the staff get so annoyed at the (very) high numbers of the unvaccinated they are dealing with

    Darwinism in action.

    If this carries on it must in the end affect demographics? The types of people who refuse to be vaccinated must surely take a statistical hit in their weighting? Political ramifications?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,705
    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,009
    edited January 5
    Standard: In principle, Johnson should be praying that the Omicron variant is, indeed, Covid’s last hurrah, and the final act of this horrible drama.

    As exhausted as the public undoubtedly is by Covid, it remains willing to give the Government the benefit of the doubt when it comes to its pandemic strategy. Not so in any other area of policy. In a brutal twist, the management of the crisis (however flawed) has become a last, desperate fig leaf for an administration with a shambolic record.

    More specifically, none of the circling sharks in the Cabinet dares take a chunk out of the wounded PM while he is still leading the battle against the virus. Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss are almost flagrantly on manoeuvres, yet as long as Covid tops the news bulletins, the likelihood of a confidence vote in Johnson’s leadership remains small.

    As one very senior figure close to the PM puts it: “It’s horrible, really, but the truth is that Boris is safe as long as Covid lasts. When it’s over, anything could happen.” In practice, this means — grotesquely — that he needs the crisis to last until at least the local elections on May 5, in which the Tories expect to suffer grievous losses.

    Covid, supposedly his greatest political affliction, has become one of his few remaining allies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    edited January 5
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    I understand, from second-hand reports (i.e. my husband, who subscribes to the Torygraph sports pages,) that the WRU are thinking about decamping to the Emirates or the Tottenham Hotspur stadium. Who would blame them for seeking to evade these useless rules and rescue their finances if the opportunity presents itself? And yes, it'll make a total mockery of Drakeford's spectator ban, but what is his Government (or that in Scotland) going to do about it? Unless they reinstate Draconian "stay local" lockdown rules to prevent the spectators from travelling, and deploy the police to try to enforce them, then the answer is nothing.

    The rugby authorities, in common with many other businesses and institutions in Scotland and Wales, have been shat upon by the devolved governments. Quite why they - let alone UK ministers - should give two hoots about their fury is quite beyond me.
    This is a good example of what is wrong with ‘Muscular Unionism’. Just because the English can behave like arseholes doesn’t mean they have to. It’s like the whole nation has caught Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
    Why is the English setting their own rules for stadia in England behaving “like arseholes”?

    It's a bit aggressive, trying to 'steal' the games from Murrayfield. Could backfire - timing is everything, particularly of Sturgeon is overly hesitant on opening stuff up.

    Not sure how football v rugby fans compare. Rugby slightly more SNP?
    It’s the Six Nations organisers exploring their options, not the “English” government.
    Who cares. That is what Sturgeon will portray it as: "Irresponsible English taking advantage of sensible Scots rules to sow division" etc etc
    Which would be rather amusing, given that it’s her government’s restrictions causing the problem for the 6N.

    We all too easily forget, that being able to go where we like and do what we like, should be the default state. The restrictions are exceptional, and should need to be continually justified by those advocating for them.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    edited January 5
    IanB2 said:

    Standard: In principle, Johnson should be praying that the Omicron variant is, indeed, Covid’s last hurrah, and the final act of this horrible drama.

    As exhausted as the public undoubtedly is by Covid, it remains willing to give the Government the benefit of the doubt when it comes to its pandemic strategy. Not so in any other area of policy. In a brutal twist, the management of the crisis (however flawed) has become a last, desperate fig leaf for an administration with a shambolic record.

    More specifically, none of the circling sharks in the Cabinet dares take a chunk out of the wounded PM while he is still leading the battle against the virus. Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss are almost flagrantly on manoeuvres, yet as long as Covid tops the news bulletins, the likelihood of a confidence vote in Johnson’s leadership remains small.

    As one very senior figure close to the PM puts it: “It’s horrible, really, but the truth is that Boris is safe as long as Covid lasts. When it’s over, anything could happen.” In practice, this means — grotesquely — that he needs the crisis to last until at least the local elections on May 5, in which the Tories expect to suffer grievous losses.

    Covid, supposedly his greatest political affliction, has become one of his few remaining allies.

    I think it just means Boris has until May 5th and then on May 8th or so the No Confidence vote is triggered.

    That is the point enough Tory MPs will have reasons to fear for their seats for a No Confidence vote to be winnable by the rebels.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    edited January 5
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ruth Davidson has suggested Boris Johnson should quit as prime minister to restore “moral authority” to Downing Street.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-should-quit-to-restore-tories-reputation-mfg7ctvr7

    Davidson has been a Cameron tool from day one.

    Dave is clearly going to tremendously enjoy the denouement.
    Yet Boris won more Scottish MPs than Cameron ever did and on the latest Scottish subsample of the latest poll the Scottish Conservatives are even back up to 28%
    Ho ho.

    In the latest full-sample, correctly weighed Scottish poll the Conservatives are on 17%:

    SNP 48%
    Lab 22%
    Con 17%
    LD 7%
    Grn 3%
    oth 4%

    Opinium/Daily Record, 15-22 December, sample size = 1,328

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488

    anecdote alert

    A nurse friend who works in a high dependency ward at a major London teaching hospital tells me that they are no longer putting vaccination status on the bedside notes as the staff get so annoyed at the (very) high numbers of the unvaccinated they are dealing with

    Darwinism in action.

    If this carries on it must in the end affect demographics? The types of people who refuse to be vaccinated must surely take a statistical hit in their weighting? Political ramifications?
    When I was in hospital I had a red band on detailing my allergy to a popular painkiller.

    I think a rather effective way to highlight the risks of being unvaccinated would be to have a similar one for non-COVID, non-vaxxed patients. You could pass it off as "just trying to keep you safe while you are in here".
This discussion has been closed.