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Johnson needs another string to his bow than vaccines – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,846
    tlg86 said:

    Quiz question. At which venue was the lowest attendance recorded during Euro 2020?

    Baku?

    Possibly Hampden Park when it was limited?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Boring AF because most of the time nothing is happening. It is like cricket on steroids. That is why they have pundits and cheerleaders to fill in the gaps while both sides bring on ten substitutes and they start again from 10 yards up the pitch.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,005

    tlg86 said:

    Quiz question. At which venue was the lowest attendance recorded during Euro 2020?

    Baku?

    Possibly Hampden Park when it was limited?
    Hampden Park for Croatia v Czechia.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,597
    pm215 said:


    Essentially their difference from your friends is that they see a high level of uncertainty and they attach a lot more importance to minimising uncertain risk than to going to (or even organing) crowded events if they don't have to. Most of them are either somewhat vulnerable or they have relatives who are. I think they'd all accept that there's a scale of risk/benefit and they would expect to move along it (one way or the other) as the situation devleops. Is that all that different in principle from most people everywhere, even if they place themselves currently at a different point in the range?

    Lots of good stuff here, but especially this -- people have very different reactions to high uncertainty. Some of the academic work on risks picks out varying 'archetypes' -- in the absence of solid data people tend to fall back on their 'model of the world', which might be "it's basically stable and taking calculated risks generally works out ok in the end", or "it's unstable and you should default to minimising deviation from status quo, adopt precautionary principle", or "situations can be made safe by imposing and following regulations", etc. The same (necessarily incomplete and unclear) data can often be used in support of any of these worldviews.

    (This is cribbed from _Risk_ by John Adams.)
    Very interesting. Must look this up.
    I sensed right at the start of the pandemic that people (including me) were having visceral, intuitive reactions to the risk that had little to do with objective evidence or politics.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,616
    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I'm an almost even mix on that list (lounge, sorry/what, sofa, dinner, toilet - agnostic on serviette/napkin). Not sure whether I'm an oik with pretensions or a posho trying to speak street!

    What's the class identifier re grandmother? Granny/grandma/nan/nanny? Growing up, I had a granny and a nan, both of whom were definitely working class. My kids have a granny and grandma.
    It's supposedly Granny, Grandma, Gran, Nan/Nana though as you say it's not as cut and dried as this. That said, I've not known anyone upper class who didn't have Granny.
    Ah, thanks. Well, my kids* children have a grandma who I would say is very definitely middle class (retired teacher, although from working class origins) and a granny who is certainly poorer (and only ever did low pay clerical work or, in later years, retail). Mind you, the granny is a southerner and the grandma northern. I suspect there's a north/south as much as posh/not posh divide on this.

    *I'm obviously a 'kids' user. Did that completely inadvertently in my original post
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,833
    edited January 5
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    Um. These are problematic.

    A pudding is a very specific thing sometime - rice pudding, Yorkshire Pudding (imagine putting your Blackberry Vinegar on a "Yorkshire Dessert".)

    A lounge is more relaxed than a sitting room.

    Agree what is more abrupt.

    Dinner and supper are really quite different.

    Toilet vs Loo? I thought loo was just more informal. Though I have known people use "lusitania".
    @TimS, this is fascinating. Could you elucidate please, as I've never understood this? Which is the posh one in those circumstances? And is it simply one being posh and one not posh, or are there other layers too?
    (I'm guessing the latter ones are the posh ones, from the clue of 'supper' - which is a word I am very happy to use in the context of a meal you have after your main evening meal - some toast before bed, for example. And in no other circumstances. (I use the word 'main evening meal' advisedly as thousands of hours can be lost arguing over lunch vs dinner vs tea, and resolved easily by 'dinner' referring to the size of a meal rather than it's time of day. FWIW, I usually use the words 'lunch' and 'tea', and reserve 'dinner' for special occasions. I also talk about 'going out for tea', but only to be awkwardly northern, not in any seriousness.)
    Edit - also, where does 'couch' sit between sofa and settee? My mother-in-law always uses 'couch', which sounds slightly posh to my ears, though I'm possibly slightly posher than she is.
    Of course, "posh" is a bit downmarket.

    Buy your MIL a chaise-longue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,694

    Desperation as China’s locked down cities pay price of zero-Covid strategy

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/desperation-as-chinas-locked-down-cities-pay-price-of-zero-covid-strategy

    Guardian not so keen on zero-covid anymore.

    As I keep saying, the tide is turning sharply against zerocovidianism in leftie circles, and against restrictions full stop. People have got the memo that omicron is mild and now blame the Tories for presiding over an NHS that cannot even handle a virus that is less dangerous than flu.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,005
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Go to a game in the US. I’ve been to two in the states and it was great. I went to Wembley and it just doesn’t work without a home team.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766
    Stocky said:

    I've been backing CP to get a poll lead before 1 Feb (Smarkets). I see the odds have been coming down gradually and are now at 3.15, which represents just over 30% chance.

    Do you guys think this is about right?

    It's a bit more than a 30% chance imo. I sense Johnson is like a rubber duck being held under water in the bath. We've all done this, right, and we know what happens when you let go. It shoots up and lands in your lap. As with the rubber duck, so with Johnson.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,616
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I claim credit for starting the 'kids' thread. Seems lazy to Mrs C. and myself, although we do use it in a casual sense sometimes.
    Anyway as a 60 & 70's Liberal and a committed European, lost causes aren't a problem.

    Inclined to think 'students' are over 16, whether at school or some form of college. Grandson 2, now at Uni was, over Christmas, explaining the difference in attitude in Year 12...... the Lower VIth ..... to his sister and one of his cousins, both of whom are currently in Year 11.

    Not sure about Lounge or sitting room; we have a lounge (or TV) area in our living room. And a dining area. But of course, we're OAP's who down-sized some years ago.
    Def. sofa. And dinner. Except on Sunday. Supper's later. Def. napkin, too, and toilet.
    And Mrs C is a Grannie. Not Granny. And def. not Nan.
    'Grannie'? I've never come across a Grannie before.
    My grandmothers were both Grannys, confusingly, and grandfathers were both Grandpas. They were differentiated by geography rather than names (Granny Marple and Granny Pinner). I quite like non-name related differentiators for grandparents.
    Boringly, my children's grandmothers are also both Grannys, differentiated by their first names. Though they have one Grandpa and one Grandad.
    Granny definitely strikes me as higher up the social scale than Nan or Nanny. Though no doubt the upper echelons have something all to themselves.
    In the East Midlands, the colloquial version of Nanny is Nonna - pronounced 'Nonnarr'. It sounds moronic in my view, but no doubt entirely sane if you grow up with it.
    My neices and nephews generally have a 'grandad trains' (with the trainset to play with and the trains to watch nearby) and another grandad. My own children would have two grandad trains by that definition, so we normally go by grandad Burn and grandad Essex.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,445

    No sign of a hit over the slowish roll out of the booster then?

    Is 11% roughly in line with the number that refuse vaccination?

    On another note I didn't know we'd struck lithium in Cornwall. Chance for some leveling up.

    The ecoloons will find a way to force us to leave it in the ground.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755
    edited January 5
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I'm an almost even mix on that list (lounge, sorry/what, sofa, dinner, toilet - agnostic on serviette/napkin). Not sure whether I'm an oik with pretensions or a posho trying to speak street!

    What's the class identifier re grandmother? Granny/grandma/nan/nanny? Growing up, I had a granny and a nan, both of whom were definitely working class. My kids have a granny and grandma.
    It's supposedly Granny, Grandma, Gran, Nan/Nana though as you say it's not as cut and dried as this. That said, I've not known anyone upper class who didn't have Granny.
    Ah, thanks. Well, my kids* children have a grandma who I would say is very definitely middle class (retired teacher, although from working class origins) and a granny who is certainly poorer (and only ever did low pay clerical work or, in later years, retail). Mind you, the granny is a southerner and the grandma northern. I suspect there's a north/south as much as posh/not posh divide on this.

    *I'm obviously a 'kids' user. Did that completely inadvertently in my original post
    Posh people have grannies because nanny is a supplier of outsourced childcare. Ordinary people can have nanny and/or granny as grandparents.

    ETA and supper is Scottish for "and chips" as in fish supper.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,361

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Boring AF because most of the time nothing is happening. It is like cricket on steroids. That is why they have pundits and cheerleaders to fill in the gaps while both sides bring on ten substitutes and they start again from 10 yards up the pitch.
    Some would argue that nothing much happens much of the time in football too.
    At least in AF and cricket you know when to look at the game. In football you have to give it your attention because something might be about to happen, but then doesn't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Go to a game in the US. I’ve been to two in the states and it was great. I went to Wembley and it just doesn’t work without a home team.
    They’ve been talking about a London franchise for at least 20 years now, and it’s still not happened yet!

    I guess it’s the Stonehenge Tunnel of sporting relocations.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,123
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I claim credit for starting the 'kids' thread. Seems lazy to Mrs C. and myself, although we do use it in a casual sense sometimes.
    Anyway as a 60 & 70's Liberal and a committed European, lost causes aren't a problem.

    Inclined to think 'students' are over 16, whether at school or some form of college. Grandson 2, now at Uni was, over Christmas, explaining the difference in attitude in Year 12...... the Lower VIth ..... to his sister and one of his cousins, both of whom are currently in Year 11.

    Not sure about Lounge or sitting room; we have a lounge (or TV) area in our living room. And a dining area. But of course, we're OAP's who down-sized some years ago.
    Def. sofa. And dinner. Except on Sunday. Supper's later. Def. napkin, too, and toilet.
    And Mrs C is a Grannie. Not Granny. And def. not Nan.
    'Grannie'? I've never come across a Grannie before.
    My grandmothers were both Grannys, confusingly, and grandfathers were both Grandpas. They were differentiated by geography rather than names (Granny Marple and Granny Pinner). I quite like non-name related differentiators for grandparents.
    Boringly, my children's grandmothers are also both Grannys, differentiated by their first names. Though they have one Grandpa and one Grandad.
    Granny definitely strikes me as higher up the social scale than Nan or Nanny. Though no doubt the upper echelons have something all to themselves.
    In the East Midlands, the colloquial version of Nanny is Nonna - pronounced 'Nonnarr'. It sounds moronic in my view, but no doubt entirely sane if you grow up with it.
    I only knew one set of grandparents; my maternal ones both died before I was born. Father's mother was Grandma. However my children had a Grannie (maternal) and a Grandma (paternal). My two eldest grandchildren had a Grannie, a Grandpa, and a Grandad., Then it got complicated, as Grandad was divorced, so they had a Grandma Rene and Grandma Olive! They also had a Grannie Stick, my wife's mother, who needed a walking stick.
    Don't we get ourselves confused, although when we're young it all makes perfect sense!
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,368
    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap. At work the usual rebuttal is "you spend less on commuting and costa coffees" but this is nonsense for those who cycle or walk in and make their own coffee.

    Back to work today (though technically still on medical leave). Actually looking forward to it! :)

    Current score in our (Edinburgh) office - 1 in (me), 5 WFH, 6 still on holiday. We were allowed to carry 6 days unused holiday into 2022 rather than the usual 3.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,937
    PMQ at 3pm, why?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
    Previous posters applauded this story as a political masterpiece. It really, really isn’t.

    Kudos to Charles for thinking twice. All too rare in the modern iteration of the Conservative Party.
    5 Feb through to 19 March.

    Judging by SA, could we be towards clear of Omicron by then?

    I'd leave them where they were planned, and let the local Govts take the political benefit or hit.
    I think the game here is to try and force the Welsh / Scottish Governments to allow the games to go ahead with full admission, foot the bills or accept the games will be played in England. By talking about playing the home matches in England the Governments are going to have to make a decision.
    “the game”

    So very transparent.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,790
    edited January 5
    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,310
    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    Come on. Gotta give Boris a chance to get out of bed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,005
    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    First day back at school so there are other things to do first.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,897
    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    Starmer is off sick, so presumably some time for the deputies to brief themselves.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    tlg86 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    First day back at school so there are other things to do first.
    Yesterday was a bank holiday in Scotland so Parliament can't do a morning start.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,937
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    Starmer is off sick, so presumably some time for the deputies to brief themselves.
    OMG, do we get the flame-haired temptress?

    *swoons*
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754
    O/T it has occurred to me that Johnson is very much a one trick pony type of chancer. At one stage it was Brexit: a pony that he didn't really believe in but he jumped on and displayed it to maximum degree. Now it is vaccines. He realised that this did, temporarily, make him popular. One has to wonder when the booster programme is finished how will he desperately milk it further? Perhaps he is wondering if he can persuade the medics that that weekly or even daily jabs should be administered?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    Supper is the one that screams privilege.

    Either that, or you’re in a painting by Leonardo.
    Interesting few posts. As far as I'm concerned the three main meals of the day are breakfast, dinner and tea. Supper is a light snack you might have not too long before bed. Anyone who has differing nomenclature to that outlined above is a barbarian.

    And 'scone' rhymes with 'moan'.

    So there.
    Yep, I'm from up there and it was that. 'Lunch' had meaning only if attached to 'picnic'. I used to 'go home for dinner' rather than have it at school and when I got home at the end of the day I'd be asking "what's for tea?" (to which the answer was usually crispy pancakes and chips). Supper would then be, eg, cornflakes just before bed. Breakfast would also likely have been cornflakes. Cornflakes thus bookending the day.

    I've lost all of that now though. Now it's breakfast, lunch, dinner, with supper just not a word.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    Easy if Boris is still around.

    Equally easy in a second election were Labour to win but no long term minority / majority coalition was possible.

    In that case I can easily see the unionist vote switching to Labour...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    edited January 5

    O/T it has occurred to me that Johnson is very much a one trick pony type of chancer. At one stage it was Brexit: a pony that he didn't really believe in but he jumped on and displayed it to maximum degree. Now it is vaccines. He realised that this did, temporarily, make him popular. One has to wonder when the booster programme is finished how will he desperately milk it further? Perhaps he is wondering if he can persuade the medics that that weekly or even daily jabs should be administered?

    What nonsense on vaccines. I am no fan of Boris, but any other leader would be doing the same on vaccines, especially against Omicron, it is really the only defence we have. It is vital to get everybody vaccinated and now boosted.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    Revolution in Kazakhstan, Almaty on fire. The discussion of “grandad trains” continues

    Never change, PB
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,553
    F1: Otmar Szafnauer leaves Aston Martin:
    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1478687393486094338

    Pretty big move. Apparently, November rumours (denied at the time) had him moving to Alpine.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,694
    edited January 5
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    Starmer is off sick, so presumably some time for the deputies to brief themselves.
    OMG, do we get the flame-haired temptress?

    *swoons*
    :D

    PB expects an All Points Bulletin from @MoonRabbit on the hair and beauty sitch at precisely 1530hrs.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    First day back at school so there are other things to do first.
    Yesterday was a bank holiday in Scotland so Parliament can't do a morning start.
    And to add

    Parliament always starts a week at 2:30 in the afternoon. Only where the house was sitting the previous day will it begin in the morning.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766
    Leon said:

    Revolution in Kazakhstan, Almaty on fire. The discussion of “grandad trains” continues

    Never change, PB

    Happy to wait for News At Ten to catch up on all that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,182

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    We know that Omicron cases include many more reinfections than previous variants., 10-15% of cases are reinfections. These are not included in the reported numbers in the UK, except in Wales which does include them. How do other countries address this issue?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/scientists-call-covid-reinfections-uk-be-included-case-figures-omicron?s=09

    Any idea WHY we are not counting them? Seems odd, especially now that they are more common.
    Because of the way the infections are registered to NHS numbers. We count new NHS numbers with a positive test result against them. Reinfections won't change that flag so they don't get counted. Aiui it's a fairly big technical challenge to count reinfections programmatically.
    Good god, in 2022 we can't solve that challenge? How hard can it be?
    Thanks for confirming that you aren't a programmer.

    This article highlights the issue https://deepsource.io/blog/exponential-cost-of-fixing-bugs/ (no recommendation, it came top in google and has a nice chart) but this chart may be enough.

    image

    Oh and that is the cost for a single system, you need to make a similar change in every other production (and non production) system that accesses that field - I call it an endless merry-go-round task.

    Note for future pandemics when adding a field use an integer rather than boolean....
    Yep - I am absolutely NOT a programmer, and never claimed to be. I just find it fascinating that this information is that hard.
    IANADP (**), but;

    Changing something may be *really* easy (*). Changing something so it doesn't break the entire system - or other peoples systems that rely on it - can be really difficult. And breaking a system can mean downtime whilst you recover, or even make the data irretrievable. Worse, it can break client's systems, if their systems are not well written. And yes, this has happened to a company I know of - an innocuous change they made caused one of their customer's databases to fail, and with it their entire purchasing system.

    This is why it's worth spending time early on in a project working out exactly what you need, and what you *may* need in the future. Something that's really hard to do IMO, but can really pay off.

    (*) Actually, there should be processes in place to ensure it isn't easy to blindly change something, but that's often not the case.
    (**) I Am Not A Database Person
    I’m not much of a database person, but changes to data structures almost always cause unintended consequences. Whether it’s an interconnected system interface, historical reports that no longer work or produce junk, version control among thousands of unmanaged clients, or half a dozen other things might that rely on the data structure being a certain way.

    Always best to design tables with spare fields, and use indexes, stored procedures, and consolidated reporting tables for historic data. But, of course, most of these things in production were designed years ago, when storage and memory were really expensive and hard to scale.
    Worse, many systems have not been designed. Well, they may have been initially, but over time requirements change, and a series of contractors are hired in to make small changes. If they are paid to, they will update the documentation. If you are lucky, they will be competent. As the system changes, you end up with scores of seemingly innocuous changes and new dependencies that are either undocumented or poorly documented, and no-one who knows the system as a whole. If systems are massive, you can get the same effect with teams of contractors or analysts.

    Many moons ago, I did a little work for an organisation whose sole income was selling data. It was an old organisation, and the selling was placed at a much higher priority than the data, which used to be held in books, and was now held electronically. If I had been running the business, my focus would have been on managing that data and nurturing the systems that held it. Instead, the data and computers were an afterthought. The salesmen were king. They'd even got rid of some of the data entry people, saying their clients could enter the data. Except, of course, clients frequently entered the data incorrectly...

    This is true for many organisations nowadays: even if they are not in the computer business, they utterly rely on computers, but neglect them. Computers are a cost, and not seen as the core of the business.
    Indeed. Many systems are not designed - well they were once. Then over the years semi-random changes were made, that kind of improved the system. For one thing. But then made it more unstable and worse at other things.

    Finally the entire system is a collection of bodges, fixes to bodges, bodges to fixes, and obsolete software.

    Bit like RNA virus replication, really.

    "X is not our Core Business" - people who say that, burn them with fire.
    Or the UK tax system.
    All legal system.....

    I was quite impressed with attempting to read the new immigration bill - the one where people where getting concerned with legal liability of the RNLI - it appeared to completely consist of "In the previous law, amend paragraph x and point y, with fragment of sentence z".

    It made it it impossible to read, unless you have a turned yourself into a search-and-replace engine.

    It seemed quite possible to create an automated tool that could take the previous law, do the changes (highlighted) and present to user - does such a thing exist already?

    It also occurred to me that such a structure is perfect for making it impossible for a casual reader to notice things in a law.....
    Lawyers have such a tool - it’s called Westlaw and it’s very expensive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I've been backing CP to get a poll lead before 1 Feb (Smarkets). I see the odds have been coming down gradually and are now at 3.15, which represents just over 30% chance.

    Do you guys think this is about right?

    It's a bit more than a 30% chance imo. I sense Johnson is like a rubber duck being held under water in the bath. We've all done this, right, and we know what happens when you let go. It shoots up and lands in your lap. As with the rubber duck, so with Johnson.
    Let's keep holding him underwater for a bit longer.
    Metaphorically of course.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139
    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Boring AF because most of the time nothing is happening. It is like cricket on steroids. That is why they have pundits and cheerleaders to fill in the gaps while both sides bring on ten substitutes and they start again from 10 yards up the pitch.
    It's like chess with added violence.
    I used to watch a lot, but lost the taste for seeing guys inflict long term brain injury on each other.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    What the uprising over?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754

    O/T it has occurred to me that Johnson is very much a one trick pony type of chancer. At one stage it was Brexit: a pony that he didn't really believe in but he jumped on and displayed it to maximum degree. Now it is vaccines. He realised that this did, temporarily, make him popular. One has to wonder when the booster programme is finished how will he desperately milk it further? Perhaps he is wondering if he can persuade the medics that that weekly or even daily jabs should be administered?

    What nonsense on vaccines. I am no fan of Boris, but any other leader would be doing the same on vaccines, especially against Omicron, it is really the only defence we have. It is vital to get everybody vaccinated and now boosted.
    Congratulations on being a late joiner to the Johnson-is-crap majority.

    I think you missed my point; perhaps I didnt articulate as well as I might have.. The point about Johnson is that he is a one-at-a-time trick pony. If he were a better communicator and actually a leader, rather than one in name only, he would be articulating other aspects of the government's message better and being rewarded with better ratings. Instead, and because he is fixated on his personal popularity, he does nothing but bang on about vaccines, to the virtual exclusion of all else.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,310

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    We know that Omicron cases include many more reinfections than previous variants., 10-15% of cases are reinfections. These are not included in the reported numbers in the UK, except in Wales which does include them. How do other countries address this issue?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/scientists-call-covid-reinfections-uk-be-included-case-figures-omicron?s=09

    Any idea WHY we are not counting them? Seems odd, especially now that they are more common.
    Because of the way the infections are registered to NHS numbers. We count new NHS numbers with a positive test result against them. Reinfections won't change that flag so they don't get counted. Aiui it's a fairly big technical challenge to count reinfections programmatically.
    Good god, in 2022 we can't solve that challenge? How hard can it be?
    Thanks for confirming that you aren't a programmer.

    This article highlights the issue https://deepsource.io/blog/exponential-cost-of-fixing-bugs/ (no recommendation, it came top in google and has a nice chart) but this chart may be enough.

    image

    Oh and that is the cost for a single system, you need to make a similar change in every other production (and non production) system that accesses that field - I call it an endless merry-go-round task.

    Note for future pandemics when adding a field use an integer rather than boolean....
    Yep - I am absolutely NOT a programmer, and never claimed to be. I just find it fascinating that this information is that hard.
    IANADP (**), but;

    Changing something may be *really* easy (*). Changing something so it doesn't break the entire system - or other peoples systems that rely on it - can be really difficult. And breaking a system can mean downtime whilst you recover, or even make the data irretrievable. Worse, it can break client's systems, if their systems are not well written. And yes, this has happened to a company I know of - an innocuous change they made caused one of their customer's databases to fail, and with it their entire purchasing system.

    This is why it's worth spending time early on in a project working out exactly what you need, and what you *may* need in the future. Something that's really hard to do IMO, but can really pay off.

    (*) Actually, there should be processes in place to ensure it isn't easy to blindly change something, but that's often not the case.
    (**) I Am Not A Database Person
    I’m not much of a database person, but changes to data structures almost always cause unintended consequences. Whether it’s an interconnected system interface, historical reports that no longer work or produce junk, version control among thousands of unmanaged clients, or half a dozen other things might that rely on the data structure being a certain way.

    Always best to design tables with spare fields, and use indexes, stored procedures, and consolidated reporting tables for historic data. But, of course, most of these things in production were designed years ago, when storage and memory were really expensive and hard to scale.
    Worse, many systems have not been designed. Well, they may have been initially, but over time requirements change, and a series of contractors are hired in to make small changes. If they are paid to, they will update the documentation. If you are lucky, they will be competent. As the system changes, you end up with scores of seemingly innocuous changes and new dependencies that are either undocumented or poorly documented, and no-one who knows the system as a whole. If systems are massive, you can get the same effect with teams of contractors or analysts.

    Many moons ago, I did a little work for an organisation whose sole income was selling data. It was an old organisation, and the selling was placed at a much higher priority than the data, which used to be held in books, and was now held electronically. If I had been running the business, my focus would have been on managing that data and nurturing the systems that held it. Instead, the data and computers were an afterthought. The salesmen were king. They'd even got rid of some of the data entry people, saying their clients could enter the data. Except, of course, clients frequently entered the data incorrectly...

    This is true for many organisations nowadays: even if they are not in the computer business, they utterly rely on computers, but neglect them. Computers are a cost, and not seen as the core of the business.
    Indeed. Many systems are not designed - well they were once. Then over the years semi-random changes were made, that kind of improved the system. For one thing. But then made it more unstable and worse at other things.

    Finally the entire system is a collection of bodges, fixes to bodges, bodges to fixes, and obsolete software.

    Bit like RNA virus replication, really.

    "X is not our Core Business" - people who say that, burn them with fire.
    Or the UK tax system.
    All legal system.....

    I was quite impressed with attempting to read the new immigration bill - the one where people where getting concerned with legal liability of the RNLI - it appeared to completely consist of "In the previous law, amend paragraph x and point y, with fragment of sentence z".

    It made it it impossible to read, unless you have a turned yourself into a search-and-replace engine.

    It seemed quite possible to create an automated tool that could take the previous law, do the changes (highlighted) and present to user - does such a thing exist already?

    It also occurred to me that such a structure is perfect for making it impossible for a casual reader to notice things in a law.....
    Lawyers have such a tool - it’s called Westlaw and it’s very expensive.
    You can also view the text as amended on legislation.gov.uk, which is free.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,194
    edited January 5
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    No Rugby at the Lane please, will ruin our pitch.
    Ha, ha, and a beautiful pitch it is too. I was there over Christmas for the West Ham league cup game.

    Anyway, isn't NFL played there?


    (in reality I know it has a separate pitch!)
    The Spurs setup is incredible. They roll the footy pitch under one of the stands, and the NFL pitch is underneath.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsQZnyCH37M
    Wow, that’s very cool. Have never been to a pro American Football game, one for the bucket list.
    Go to a game in the US. I’ve been to two in the states and it was great. I went to Wembley and it just doesn’t work without a home team.
    The nominal home team is err... the... Jags.

    I expect something like the 49ers vs Cowboys would be buzzing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,937
    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    "But analysts said that frustration at the political elite in Kazakhstan has been building for years. People accuse this elite of secretly owning many of the country's main economic assets and of being more interested in buffing their international image by hiring the likes of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair as a consultant."

    Bad week all round for the Order of the Garter
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    edited January 5

    O/T it has occurred to me that Johnson is very much a one trick pony type of chancer. At one stage it was Brexit: a pony that he didn't really believe in but he jumped on and displayed it to maximum degree. Now it is vaccines. He realised that this did, temporarily, make him popular. One has to wonder when the booster programme is finished how will he desperately milk it further? Perhaps he is wondering if he can persuade the medics that that weekly or even daily jabs should be administered?

    What nonsense on vaccines. I am no fan of Boris, but any other leader would be doing the same on vaccines, especially against Omicron, it is really the only defence we have. It is vital to get everybody vaccinated and now boosted.
    Congratulations on being a late joiner to the Johnson-is-crap majority.

    I think you missed my point; perhaps I didnt articulate as well as I might have.. The point about Johnson is that he is a one-at-a-time trick pony. If he were a better communicator and actually a leader, rather than one in name only, he would be articulating other aspects of the government's message better and being rewarded with better ratings. Instead, and because he is fixated on his personal popularity, he does nothing but bang on about vaccines, to the virtual exclusion of all else.
    Not a late joiner at all.....you will struggle to find a single positive comment I have made about Boris ever.

    I certainly don't disagree on leadership. He isn't a good leader, that is clear.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
    The latest president does look like a satirical version of a central Asian president

    Could get nasty. The rebels have seized the biggest city but the army has not switched sides. Recipe for an Assad/Tiananmen solution
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,368

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    first matches:

    Scotland v England Sat 5 Feb
    Newcastle (h) v Everton Tues 8 Feb

    Wales v Scotland Sat 12 Feb
    Manchester Utd (h) v Southampton Sat 12 Feb

    I'm sure the Premier league will have no problems adding these to an already massively overcrowded and complicated schedule.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,597

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    What the uprising over?
    Fuel prices. But it doesn’t look like a full on revolution to me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,723

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    What the uprising over?
    "The demonstrations erupted after a cap on energy prices was removed, doubling the cost to Kazakhs of liquified petroleum gas which many use to power their cars from 50 tenge (10p) a litre.

    The government justified the change by saying the previous set price was unsustainable."

    https://news.sky.com/story/kazakhstan-state-of-emergency-declared-in-capital-nur-sultan-as-protests-intensify-in-almaty-and-other-cities-12509441
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,341
    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    Oh JFC I they end up changing the fucking IATA code on the airport again I might lose my shit.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 277
    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap.

    I am currently saving on my gas bill because the pump in my boiler is bust and the plumber can't come out to look at it until next week because he had a positive covid LFT on Monday...

    (Instead I am using an electric heater, which will not be doing my electricity bill any favours, and putting up with the house being a bit colder overall.)

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    edited January 5
    Govt confirms PCR tests being dropped for asymptomatic people who test positive, from Jan 11th: @theipaper @emsferg and me https://t.co/MQAjrJxGEa
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,694
    sarissa said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    first matches:

    Scotland v England Sat 5 Feb
    Newcastle (h) v Everton Tues 8 Feb

    Wales v Scotland Sat 12 Feb
    Manchester Utd (h) v Southampton Sat 12 Feb

    I'm sure the Premier league will have no problems adding these to an already massively overcrowded and complicated schedule.
    Okay so play the Wales match at Eastlands.

    Just requires some imagination. Better than playing in empty stadiums – which is the current expectation in the Celtic nations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I claim credit for starting the 'kids' thread. Seems lazy to Mrs C. and myself, although we do use it in a casual sense sometimes.
    Anyway as a 60 & 70's Liberal and a committed European, lost causes aren't a problem.

    Inclined to think 'students' are over 16, whether at school or some form of college. Grandson 2, now at Uni was, over Christmas, explaining the difference in attitude in Year 12...... the Lower VIth ..... to his sister and one of his cousins, both of whom are currently in Year 11.

    Not sure about Lounge or sitting room; we have a lounge (or TV) area in our living room. And a dining area. But of course, we're OAP's who down-sized some years ago.
    Def. sofa. And dinner. Except on Sunday. Supper's later. Def. napkin, too, and toilet.
    And Mrs C is a Grannie. Not Granny. And def. not Nan.
    'Grannie'? I've never come across a Grannie before.
    My grandmothers were both Grannys, confusingly, and grandfathers were both Grandpas. They were differentiated by geography rather than names (Granny Marple and Granny Pinner). I quite like non-name related differentiators for grandparents.
    Boringly, my children's grandmothers are also both Grannys, differentiated by their first names. Though they have one Grandpa and one Grandad.
    Granny definitely strikes me as higher up the social scale than Nan or Nanny. Though no doubt the upper echelons have something all to themselves.
    In the East Midlands, the colloquial version of Nanny is Nonna - pronounced 'Nonnarr'. It sounds moronic in my view, but no doubt entirely sane if you grow up with it.
    I only knew one set of grandparents; my maternal ones both died before I was born. Father's mother was Grandma. However my children had a Grannie (maternal) and a Grandma (paternal). My two eldest grandchildren had a Grannie, a Grandpa, and a Grandad., Then it got complicated, as Grandad was divorced, so they had a Grandma Rene and Grandma Olive! They also had a Grannie Stick, my wife's mother, who needed a walking stick.
    Don't we get ourselves confused, although when we're young it all makes perfect sense!
    But is it Grannie, or Granny ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    What the uprising over?
    Fuel prices. But it doesn’t look like a full on revolution to me.
    Looks pretty serious to me - just unplanned. This is not a coup, it’s a spontaneous insurrection. More like the Arab spring. Which is ominous, as we know how most of those turned out

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497
    Geoff Hoon ‘told to burn memo that said Iraq invasion could be illegal’
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/05/geoff-hoon-told-to-burn-memo-that-said-iraq-invasion-could-be
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,874
    edited January 5
    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some off the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    edited January 5
    I am very surprised given how often Boris hangs around vaccination centres and is very lax about precautions he hasn't had a second bout of the COVID.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some of the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Would certainly make both games more interesting, if a bit congested on the pitch.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,583

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
    More accurate than most other one word descriptions That's certainly how they strike me
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    Easy if Boris is still around.

    Equally easy in a second election were Labour to win but no long term minority / majority coalition was possible.

    In that case I can easily see the unionist vote switching to Labour...
    Easy for you to say. Much harder for local Tories who have fight Labour tooth and nail their entire lives.

    This is the problem with a lot of tactical voting: it relies on wishful thinking rather than hard realities.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,310
    Nigelb said:

    Geoff Hoon ‘told to burn memo that said Iraq invasion could be illegal’
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/05/geoff-hoon-told-to-burn-memo-that-said-iraq-invasion-could-be

    I don't get what the issue here is.

    Hoon said the advice was “not an easy read” and concluded that the Iraq invasion would be lawful only if the prime minister believed that it was in the UK’s national interest to do so.

    So replace "could" with "was not"?
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    edited January 5
    pm215 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Martin Lewis all over the place talking about energy costs.

    This is gonna overtake Covid, though there is a synergy with everyone working from home during this current cold snap.

    I am currently saving on my gas bill because the pump in my boiler is bust and the plumber can't come out to look at it until next week because he had a positive covid LFT on Monday...

    (Instead I am using an electric heater, which will not be doing my electricity bill any favours, and putting up with the house being a bit colder overall.)

    That's a very Governmental viewpoint of savings

    I saved £100 on the train ticket by using an RAF Helicopter instead...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    Excellent account to follow, on the Kakakh insurrection

    https://twitter.com/bbbayh/status/1478621974813368322?s=21

    It is definitely pretty serious. They’ve seized government buildings across the country. Factories are on strike. Shots and explosions everywhere. State broadcaster captured and off air

    BUT that does not guarantee success, of course
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
    Ho ho.

    Off you slither.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,027
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some off the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Although the Toon do not share they have held a few Rugby games at St James as well as the Rugby League weekend which sees several games played over two days.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    sarissa said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Sounds like a great idea to me. You could have Wales' home ground at Old Trafford, Scotland's at St James' Park, Ireland's at Anfield, France's at White Hart Lane and Italy's at Wembley.

    Let's do it.
    first matches:

    Scotland v England Sat 5 Feb
    Newcastle (h) v Everton Tues 8 Feb

    Wales v Scotland Sat 12 Feb
    Manchester Utd (h) v Southampton Sat 12 Feb

    I'm sure the Premier league will have no problems adding these to an already massively overcrowded and complicated schedule.
    Don't see a problem with the Newcastle matches - should be more than enough time to repaint the pitch.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
    Ho ho.

    Off you slither.
    I see you have been taking MalcolmG's advanced course on debating.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,923
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread already (sorry), there is a story in the Telegraph that the Six Nations might be played entirely in England. To me, that would be vastly preferable to empty stadia in Scotland and Wales (and Ireland and France?). And getting to Bristol, say, won't be massively more inconvenient for Welsh fans than getting to Cardiff. But I can't see the politics of it panning out. Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford would be furious.

    Well, if Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France (not sure about Italy) are all banning crowds from stadia, and England are offering the organisers full houses of paying spectators, then the organisers are going to take the money.

    6N tickets are gold dust at the best of times, they’ll have no problem selling out every venue they can find, even at short notice.

    Yes, the politics of it will be awful in the other nations.
    Although it also allows Sturgeon and Drakeford an easy hit at explaining differential infection rates (“stupid English”)
    Previous posters applauded this story as a political masterpiece. It really, really isn’t.

    Kudos to Charles for thinking twice. All too rare in the modern iteration of the Conservative Party.
    5 Feb through to 19 March.

    Judging by SA, could we be towards clear of Omicron by then?

    I'd leave them where they were planned, and let the local Govts take the political benefit or hit.
    I think the game here is to try and force the Welsh / Scottish Governments to allow the games to go ahead with full admission, foot the bills or accept the games will be played in England. By talking about playing the home matches in England the Governments are going to have to make a decision.
    A question - if spectators are completely banned, what benefit is there to country X in playing a game behind closed doors?
    I guess the logic goes

    Home Support > closed doors > away

    but the reality is a question of money and the Welsh / Scottish Rugby Unions would probably accept a "home" game with 100% away supporters if it was an question of £8m or zero.
    The actual logic, for the 6N and the RFUs, is Home support > another full ground somewhere else > behind closed doors.

    The SRFU would rather play in (say) Newcastle, than an empty Murrayfield, for both the atmosphere and the money.

    60k fans, £100 an average ticket, is £6m match day revenue, plus a load of F&B, retail and other sources of cash.
    Paint (Farrow and Ball?)
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,368
    edited January 5
    tlg86 said:

    Quiz question. At which venue was the lowest attendance recorded during Euro 2020?

    Croatia v Czech Republic Hampden Park, Glasgow
    Attendance: 5,607

    look like the lowest
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,741

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
    Ridiculous and misleading hyperbole? Like calling opponents divisive, prejudiced and hateful?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766
    edited January 5
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some of the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Would certainly make both games more interesting, if a bit congested on the pitch.
    Interesting to visualize how each would look with the opposite ball. I think rugby with a football would lose a lot but would be viable. You'd be able to watch it and get into it even. Football with a rugby ball, however, would be a total farce. You wouldn't be able to dribble or pass properly because the ball would have a mind of its own. It'd be something no-one would pay to see.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    President “Borat’s Dad” is cracking down. Brace


  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,617
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
    The latest president does look like a satirical version of a central Asian president

    Could get nasty. The rebels have seized the biggest city but the army has not switched sides. Recipe for an Assad/Tiananmen solution
    Which side are shills for Putin?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,027
    Fuel prices are going to be a major issue for the govt come April and it is, partly, of their own making.

    Gas prices in Europe, per therm, are going up and are high but nowhere near as high as ours.

    It serves the govt right if this blows up in their face.

    Other politicians in other parties cannot complain, they are advocating the same sort of policies that have led to this, in fact demanding we go faster and further.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Geoff Hoon ‘told to burn memo that said Iraq invasion could be illegal’
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/05/geoff-hoon-told-to-burn-memo-that-said-iraq-invasion-could-be

    I don't get what the issue here is.

    Hoon said the advice was “not an easy read” and concluded that the Iraq invasion would be lawful only if the prime minister believed that it was in the UK’s national interest to do so.

    So replace "could" with "was not"?
    The issue is the continuing unpopularity of the decision - along with the refusal at the time to publish the advice.
    It's just Hoon taking a shot at his old nemesis, but it's well timed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,874
    edited January 5
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some off the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Although the Toon do not share they have held a few Rugby games at St James as well as the Rugby League weekend which sees several games played over two days.
    Yeah. 6 full games over two days. It's been held at Anfield too.
    Old Trafford has had the Grand Final for nearly 25 years.
    Plus. Clubs as tiny and poorly supported as Rochdale, Halifax and York manage it on a regular basis. Notts County also. It isn't unusual to have games on consecutive days either, though they do try to avoid it.
    Newport and Doncaster have three clubs sharing across two different sports.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
    Ho ho.

    Off you slither.
    I see you have been taking MalcolmG's advanced course on debating.
    Malkie will be along to feed you a dead rat later on. Don’t snack before yer tea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some of the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Would certainly make both games more interesting, if a bit congested on the pitch.
    Interesting to visualize how each would look with the opposite ball. I think rugby with a football would lose a lot but would be viable. You'd be able to watch it and get into it even. Football with a rugby ball, however, would be a total farce. You wouldn't be able to dribble or pass properly because the ball would have a mind of its own. It'd be something no-one would pay to see.
    Four teams, two balls.
    If they got the rules right, I might pay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,497
    edited January 5
    Taz said:

    Fuel prices are going to be a major issue for the govt come April and it is, partly, of their own making.

    Gas prices in Europe, per therm, are going up and are high but nowhere near as high as ours.

    It serves the govt right if this blows up in their face.

    Other politicians in other parties cannot complain, they are advocating the same sort of policies that have led to this, in fact demanding we go faster and further.

    Why would they complain ?
    They'll just enjoy the spectacle from the sidelines.

    And complain about the cut in universal credit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,792
    edited January 5

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
    The latest president does look like a satirical version of a central Asian president

    Could get nasty. The rebels have seized the biggest city but the army has not switched sides. Recipe for an Assad/Tiananmen solution
    Which side are shills for Putin?
    It’s quite complex (says someone who only started reading about Kazakhstan forty three minutes ago). Major Russian, Chinese AND American investments and interests. And I guess they all prefer a stable Kazakhstan? But the protests are intense and “unprecedented” and there are now reports of security forces turning

    Presumably the prez will try the Assad approach, and that’s why he’s seized control of the army. The last guy was deemed too weak and afraid to shoot the people
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,245

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    I am a rational, civic minded person
    You are a flag waver
    He has invaded Poland
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I've been backing CP to get a poll lead before 1 Feb (Smarkets). I see the odds have been coming down gradually and are now at 3.15, which represents just over 30% chance.

    Do you guys think this is about right?

    It's a bit more than a 30% chance imo. I sense Johnson is like a rubber duck being held under water in the bath. We've all done this, right, and we know what happens when you let go. It shoots up and lands in your lap. As with the rubber duck, so with Johnson.
    Unfortunate imagery there.

    I’m trying to work out how it lands in my lap if I’m in the bath? Surely my lap is under the surface?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766
    Macron being a bit vulgar here, I guess to attract votes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    Not a massive fan of this myself. I'd rather politicians kept it polite with the vax refusers. Stick with the message of "it's free it's safe it works please please get it".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,653
    Betting Post

    Backing Shrewsbury to beat Liverpool in the FA Cup on Sunday is 12.5 on Betfair.

    Looks like Liverpool will be playing the development squad, which is a squad that has four pubes between them all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/05/liverpool-covid-arsenal-carabao-cup
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    Maybe Nicola could be that wise head:


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,814

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
    Says the dyed in the wool fascist Britnat ignoramous arsehole.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,874
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fuel prices are going to be a major issue for the govt come April and it is, partly, of their own making.

    Gas prices in Europe, per therm, are going up and are high but nowhere near as high as ours.

    It serves the govt right if this blows up in their face.

    Other politicians in other parties cannot complain, they are advocating the same sort of policies that have led to this, in fact demanding we go faster and further.

    Why would they complain ?
    They'll just enjoy the spectacle from the sidelines.

    And complain about the cut in universal credit.
    Yep. It's the old more Tories voted for the Iraq War than Labour argument.
    They can't even abolish VAT and expect a wave of gratitude that bills have gone up a mere 45%.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,766
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Coventry City and Wasps share the same pitch, when I went there over crimbo they played poorly but the pitch was in excellent nick.

    There are plenty of soccer teams share a pitch with rugby teams. Some of the top of my head.
    Wigan, Huddersfield, Hull, Bristol City, Brentford.
    Even more when you get to non-league football and lower league rugby.
    Would certainly make both games more interesting, if a bit congested on the pitch.
    Interesting to visualize how each would look with the opposite ball. I think rugby with a football would lose a lot but would be viable. You'd be able to watch it and get into it even. Football with a rugby ball, however, would be a total farce. You wouldn't be able to dribble or pass properly because the ball would have a mind of its own. It'd be something no-one would pay to see.
    Four teams, two balls.
    If they got the rules right, I might pay.
    Ah yes, now you're talking. The sum could be greater than the parts there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 98,845
    edited January 5

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    If he wants to win back the redwall he isn't.

    Scotland is largely irrelevant to his chances of becoming PM, the SNP are the main challengers in the remaining 6 SCon seats and the SNP will back Starmer over the Tories as PM anyway. To deprive the Tories of their majority it is the redwall seats Starmer needs to win back.

    He only needs Scottish seats to help ensure he can get English domestic legislation through if the Tories still had a majority in England but not the UK, as the SNP would abstain on that
This discussion has been closed.