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Johnson needs another string to his bow than vaccines – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PMQ at 3pm, why?

    Starmer is off sick, so presumably some time for the deputies to brief themselves.
    OMG, do we get the flame-haired temptress?

    *swoons*
    :D

    PB expects an All Points Bulletin from @MoonRabbit on the hair and beauty sitch at precisely 1530hrs.
    “Flame haired temptress”

    🤮
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,810

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    I am a rational, civic minded person
    You are a flag waver
    He has invaded Poland
    I don’t mind people being frank, honest and straightforward. But the problem with Nigel and their ilk is that they genuinely despise me and my party colleagues, on entirely inaccurate grounds.

    I’m not saying the SNP is a perfect organisation, but it is very far removed from the nest of evil that Nigel and chums try to depict.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,810
    felix said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    Maybe Nicola could be that wise head:


    Nicola could teach Keir lots of things. I’m sure they’ll get on fine together.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,626
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
    The latest president does look like a satirical version of a central Asian president

    Could get nasty. The rebels have seized the biggest city but the army has not switched sides. Recipe for an Assad/Tiananmen solution
    Which side are shills for Putin?
    It’s quite complex (says someone who only started reading about Kazakhstan forty three minutes ago). Major Russian, Chinese AND American investments and interests. And I guess they all prefer a stable Kazakhstan? But the protests are intense and “unprecedented” and there are now reports of security forces turning

    Presumably the prez will try the Assad approach, and that’s why he’s seized control of the army. The last guy was deemed too weak and afraid to shoot the people
    Interesting that this is in response to commodity inflation, as was the Arab spring, as have been many protests and insurrections in the past.

    So perhaps a few more to come elsewhere this year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,901

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I've been backing CP to get a poll lead before 1 Feb (Smarkets). I see the odds have been coming down gradually and are now at 3.15, which represents just over 30% chance.

    Do you guys think this is about right?

    It's a bit more than a 30% chance imo. I sense Johnson is like a rubber duck being held under water in the bath. We've all done this, right, and we know what happens when you let go. It shoots up and lands in your lap. As with the rubber duck, so with Johnson.
    Unfortunate imagery there.

    I’m trying to work out how it lands in my lap if I’m in the bath? Surely my lap is under the surface?
    Possibly, yes. But it depends on the water level. Many people like it quite shallow which means bits of them are sticking out. Their toes, for example.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    Another side to the Kazakh story


  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,371

    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.

    I'm pretty uncomfortable with any restrictions on the unvaxxed. For me, restrictions in general are not only bad because they are not effective enough to justify the huge cost/imposition (which is the rational argument), but they are bad in principle - whether they are aimed at me or not. So I am uncomfortable with restrictions on cinemas and theatres even though I have no intention of going to one; and I am uncomfortable wit hrestrictions on the unvaxxed even though I am vaxxed.

    The government is there to serve the people, not harangue or threaten them. The people aren't the government's opponents. Though I'm sure you're talking in the narrower sense of the government serving the interests of the whole population by taking on a small subset of it.

    I'm not that keen on financial carrots, but only on a does-it-work-and-can-we-afford-it question. I suppose you could possibly make a case that the benefit to the economy of getting people vaxxed is worth the spend on incentives, but it doesn't strike me as obvious that this is the case.

    Basically, as I see it, we just have to ride this thing out. Over 90% of the population have been jabbed without having to resort to any particularly regrettable measures. That's pretty good, no?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,157
    edited January 5

    Betting Post

    Backing Shrewsbury to beat Liverpool in the FA Cup on Sunday is 12.5 on Betfair.

    Looks like Liverpool will be playing the development squad, which is a squad that has four pubes between them all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/05/liverpool-covid-arsenal-carabao-cup

    Thanks - done it. Also got £2 on for 0-1 Shrewsbury at 36.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    edited January 5
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like the Revolution manque in Kazakhstan might succeed. TV station down. Internet half down. Security forces routed. Rumours of private jets fleeing. Government resigns.

    I do love me a good old fashioned Revolution.

    President Borat?
    The latest president does look like a satirical version of a central Asian president

    Could get nasty. The rebels have seized the biggest city but the army has not switched sides. Recipe for an Assad/Tiananmen solution
    Which side are shills for Putin?
    It’s quite complex (says someone who only started reading about Kazakhstan forty three minutes ago). Major Russian, Chinese AND American investments and interests. And I guess they all prefer a stable Kazakhstan? But the protests are intense and “unprecedented” and there are now reports of security forces turning

    Presumably the prez will try the Assad approach, and that’s why he’s seized control of the army. The last guy was deemed too weak and afraid to shoot the people
    Interesting that this is in response to commodity inflation, as was the Arab spring, as have been many protests and insurrections in the past.

    So perhaps a few more to come elsewhere this year.
    Yes, it’s a classic trigger for insurrection. Fuel prices or bread/rice prices

    Keep the people fed and warm: is the lesson
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,810
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    If he wants to win back the redwall he isn't.

    Scotland is largely irrelevant to his chances of becoming PM, the SNP are the main challengers in the remaining 6 SCon seats and the SNP will back Starmer over the Tories as PM anyway. To deprive the Tories of their majority it is the redwall seats Starmer needs to win back.

    He only needs Scottish seats to help ensure he can get English domestic legislation through if the Tories still had a majority in England but not the UK, as the SNP would abstain on that
    Or he might genuinely like the Union flag.

    Not everything can be explained by your rather unusual take on English domestic legislation.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 630
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17222235/fishing-port-brixham-brexit-record-haul/

    Record catch at Brixham and exports to EU rising over last year.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    Wrt the "Tens of thousands of Scots flooded Newcastle to party on NYE" meme.
    That was widely anticipated, and some certainly did.
    But overall, it was quieter than usual in Toon.
    Here is the rather downbeat report of goings on in the Chronicle.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/new-year-newcastle-clean-up-22620202.amp
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,761
    dixiedean said:

    Wrt the "Tens of thousands of Scots flooded Newcastle to party on NYE" meme.
    That was widely anticipated, and some certainly did.
    But overall, it was quieter than usual in Toon.
    Here is the rather downbeat report of goings on in the Chronicle.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/new-year-newcastle-clean-up-22620202.amp

    Fake news.

    This was typical of the trains out of Scotland to England on NYE.


  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,810
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I've been backing CP to get a poll lead before 1 Feb (Smarkets). I see the odds have been coming down gradually and are now at 3.15, which represents just over 30% chance.

    Do you guys think this is about right?

    It's a bit more than a 30% chance imo. I sense Johnson is like a rubber duck being held under water in the bath. We've all done this, right, and we know what happens when you let go. It shoots up and lands in your lap. As with the rubber duck, so with Johnson.
    Unfortunate imagery there.

    I’m trying to work out how it lands in my lap if I’m in the bath? Surely my lap is under the surface?
    Possibly, yes. But it depends on the water level. Many people like it quite shallow which means bits of them are sticking out. Their toes, for example.
    Can Boris see his toes?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047
    edited January 5

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    If he wants to win back the redwall he isn't.

    Scotland is largely irrelevant to his chances of becoming PM, the SNP are the main challengers in the remaining 6 SCon seats and the SNP will back Starmer over the Tories as PM anyway. To deprive the Tories of their majority it is the redwall seats Starmer needs to win back.

    He only needs Scottish seats to help ensure he can get English domestic legislation through if the Tories still had a majority in England but not the UK, as the SNP would abstain on that
    Or he might genuinely like the Union flag.

    Not everything can be explained by your rather unusual take on English domestic legislation.
    Unless you are arguing the SNP would now vote on English domestic legislation, then if Labour do not win most seats then even if Starmer becomes PM with SNP support in a hung parliament he will not be able to get English domestic legistation through the Commons
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,502
    edited January 5

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
    Ho ho.

    Off you slither.
    In a crowded field of self deceiving wankers, the ‘I’m a patriot not a nationalist’ lads are among the most credulous.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,731
    Cookie said:

    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.

    I'm pretty uncomfortable with any restrictions on the unvaxxed. For me, restrictions in general are not only bad because they are not effective enough to justify the huge cost/imposition (which is the rational argument), but they are bad in principle - whether they are aimed at me or not. So I am uncomfortable with restrictions on cinemas and theatres even though I have no intention of going to one; and I am uncomfortable wit hrestrictions on the unvaxxed even though I am vaxxed.

    The government is there to serve the people, not harangue or threaten them. The people aren't the government's opponents. Though I'm sure you're talking in the narrower sense of the government serving the interests of the whole population by taking on a small subset of it.

    I'm not that keen on financial carrots, but only on a does-it-work-and-can-we-afford-it question. I suppose you could possibly make a case that the benefit to the economy of getting people vaxxed is worth the spend on incentives, but it doesn't strike me as obvious that this is the case.

    Basically, as I see it, we just have to ride this thing out. Over 90% of the population have been jabbed without having to resort to any particularly regrettable measures. That's pretty good, no?
    Well I'd generally agree, except for your last point.

    Forcing theatregoers to wear masks is extremely regrettable, as going to the theatre is a social and indeed romantic activity, like going to the pub or restaurant, and it's similarly discretionary. If you are worried about covid, don't go to the theatre. Making everyone wear a mask therein just ruins the experience for many (who wants to go on a date and wear a mask?) and has almost no benefit (everyone takes their mask off to drink in the theatre bar anyway – the entire concept is ludicrous).

    I have similar views about masks in fashion stores. Now, going clothes shopping is not something I ever do. Yet for many millions of people (mainly, not exclusively, women) it's a leisure activity. It is also discretionary – if you are worried about covid, don't spend Saturday afternoon pounding the shops with your girlfriends.

    I would have no mask mandates at all. They strike me as a major imposition for little benefit against omicron, and those that are concerned can get an FFP3 mask. Indeed I would state-fund said masks for the vulnerable.

    However, a fair compromise on masks would be to make them compulsory for essential settings – groceries, public transport and the like – and voluntary for discretionary settings.

    As it is, we have a ludicrous muddle whereby pubs, restaurants and clubs are (rightly) mask free but theatres and boutiques are enforced masks.

    Regrettable? You bet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,744
    Cookie said:

    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.

    I'm pretty uncomfortable with any restrictions on the unvaxxed. For me, restrictions in general are not only bad because they are not effective enough to justify the huge cost/imposition (which is the rational argument), but they are bad in principle - whether they are aimed at me or not. So I am uncomfortable with restrictions on cinemas and theatres even though I have no intention of going to one; and I am uncomfortable wit hrestrictions on the unvaxxed even though I am vaxxed.

    The government is there to serve the people, not harangue or threaten them. The people aren't the government's opponents. Though I'm sure you're talking in the narrower sense of the government serving the interests of the whole population by taking on a small subset of it.

    I'm not that keen on financial carrots, but only on a does-it-work-and-can-we-afford-it question. I suppose you could possibly make a case that the benefit to the economy of getting people vaxxed is worth the spend on incentives, but it doesn't strike me as obvious that this is the case.

    Basically, as I see it, we just have to ride this thing out. Over 90% of the population have been jabbed without having to resort to any particularly regrettable measures. That's pretty good, no?
    If you have been vaxxed or not you can pass on Covid so the issue is NHS resource.

    Many on here want to carve out Covid as being something that people should take steps to prevent in themselves, in particular injecting something into their bodies, otherwise they should be denied treatment.

    Such advocates however are happy that mountaineers should be treated on the NHS no matter how foolish they might be in their escapades.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261

    felix said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Yes, no party leaders make a point of displaying union jacks on zoom calls.
    Indeed.

    If Starmer is trying to do what it looks like he is trying to do then he is making a grave error. I’m sure a wise head will have a word.
    Maybe Nicola could be that wise head:


    Nicola could teach Keir lots of things. I’m sure they’ll get on fine together.
    I'm all for it - he'll fit neatly in her left pocket.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,744
    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    Thanks for this. Vital stuff. Can you please keep us informed about the situation in Kazakhstan as your particular insight is very useful on the subject.

    TIA.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,196
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    I think dessert is one of that long line of words with French origins considered "non-U" by the upper-middle snobs, with the Germanic or at least non-French version preferred. Others include:

    - Lounge vs sitting room
    - Pardon vs sorry or what
    - Settee vs sofa
    - Dinner vs supper (though dinner seems less frowned on than most)
    - Serviette vs napkin
    - Toilet vs loo

    And so on. The crucial dividing point between the lower-middle and upper-middle class. I don't know if it's true or urban myth that this came about during the Napoleonic wars as an anti-French thing. Almost as salient as a class identifier as the preferred name for grandmother.
    I claim credit for starting the 'kids' thread. Seems lazy to Mrs C. and myself, although we do use it in a casual sense sometimes.
    Anyway as a 60 & 70's Liberal and a committed European, lost causes aren't a problem.

    Inclined to think 'students' are over 16, whether at school or some form of college. Grandson 2, now at Uni was, over Christmas, explaining the difference in attitude in Year 12...... the Lower VIth ..... to his sister and one of his cousins, both of whom are currently in Year 11.

    Not sure about Lounge or sitting room; we have a lounge (or TV) area in our living room. And a dining area. But of course, we're OAP's who down-sized some years ago.
    Def. sofa. And dinner. Except on Sunday. Supper's later. Def. napkin, too, and toilet.
    And Mrs C is a Grannie. Not Granny. And def. not Nan.
    'Grannie'? I've never come across a Grannie before.
    My grandmothers were both Grannys, confusingly, and grandfathers were both Grandpas. They were differentiated by geography rather than names (Granny Marple and Granny Pinner). I quite like non-name related differentiators for grandparents.
    Boringly, my children's grandmothers are also both Grannys, differentiated by their first names. Though they have one Grandpa and one Grandad.
    Granny definitely strikes me as higher up the social scale than Nan or Nanny. Though no doubt the upper echelons have something all to themselves.
    In the East Midlands, the colloquial version of Nanny is Nonna - pronounced 'Nonnarr'. It sounds moronic in my view, but no doubt entirely sane if you grow up with it.
    I only knew one set of grandparents; my maternal ones both died before I was born. Father's mother was Grandma. However my children had a Grannie (maternal) and a Grandma (paternal). My two eldest grandchildren had a Grannie, a Grandpa, and a Grandad., Then it got complicated, as Grandad was divorced, so they had a Grandma Rene and Grandma Olive! They also had a Grannie Stick, my wife's mother, who needed a walking stick.
    Don't we get ourselves confused, although when we're young it all makes perfect sense!
    But is it Grannie, or Granny ?
    Grannie. That was what Mrs C said she was going to insist on when we first knew we were going to grandparents, thirty-three years ago.
    That was her mother had been, and that was what her mother's mother had been. Before that..... who knows.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    Thanks for this. Vital stuff. Can you please keep us informed about the situation in Kazakhstan as your particular insight is very useful on the subject.

    TIA.
    I felt the discussion on the relative poshness of the terms “granny”, “gran”, “grandma”, “nan”, “nonna” and “nonnarrr” had reached a natural terminus

    This is another excellent source for news on Kazakhstan.

    https://twitter.com/dralakbarov/status/1478723735062466564?s=21

    Twitter is at its best with unfolding events like this. Same in the Arab spring
  • theProletheProle Posts: 646

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,314

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    Pull the other one. Political life is absolutely riddled with narrow-minded British nationalists. You’re all over the place.
    Cut the "you're" crap. Nationalism is a repulsive creed and I am not in that camp. Patriotism is fine and admirable. Nationalism breeds hatred and division. The Scottish version is no better than the English, Russian or Chinese variants. Some are more pestilent and lethal than others, but they are all a nasty disease.
    Ho ho.

    Off you slither.
    In a crowded field of self deceiving wankers, the ‘I’m a patriot not a nationalist’ lads are among the most credulous.
    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    Quite a standard feature of nationalism, to believe that *your* Nationalism is completely rational and normal. Almost to the fish-doesn't-notice-water level.

    Everyone else's is obviously toxic and horrible.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,196
    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    Friend of mine's doing that. Tested positive on what must have been close to her last day.

    Which school?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,731
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    Thanks for this. Vital stuff. Can you please keep us informed about the situation in Kazakhstan as your particular insight is very useful on the subject.

    TIA.
    Actual LOL.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,744
    edited January 5
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    Thanks for this. Vital stuff. Can you please keep us informed about the situation in Kazakhstan as your particular insight is very useful on the subject.

    TIA.
    I felt the discussion on the relative poshness of the terms “granny”, “gran”, “grandma”, “nan”, “nonna” and “nonnarrr” had reached a natural terminus

    This is another excellent source for news on Kazakhstan.

    https://twitter.com/dralakbarov/status/1478723735062466564?s=21

    Twitter is at its best with unfolding events like this. Same in the Arab spring
    көп рақмет

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    edited January 5

    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    Friend of mine's doing that. Tested positive on what must have been close to her last day.

    Which school?
    Deleted.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,440
    Am I to understand that our to-be alien overlords have finally watched Borat, misunderstood it, and have commenced the invasion of Earth with Kazakhstan?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,015
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fuel prices are going to be a major issue for the govt come April and it is, partly, of their own making.

    Gas prices in Europe, per therm, are going up and are high but nowhere near as high as ours.

    It serves the govt right if this blows up in their face.

    Other politicians in other parties cannot complain, they are advocating the same sort of policies that have led to this, in fact demanding we go faster and further.

    Why would they complain ?
    They'll just enjoy the spectacle from the sidelines.

    And complain about the cut in universal credit.
    Yep. It's the old more Tories voted for the Iraq War than Labour argument.
    They can't even abolish VAT and expect a wave of gratitude that bills have gone up a mere 45%.
    Besides, that would be expensive, and Boris is (struggles to get the words out...) right on this one.

    If fuel is more expensive, that's unfortunate but tough. We either pay directly (higher bills) or indirectly (higher taxes to subsidise the fuel bills).

    But that cut in UC, which could have protected the needy, looks even dumber and meaner now than it did at the time, especially since something like this was clearly in the works.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,196
    edited January 5
    Deleted
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,554

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
    Are you sure that Gandhi wasn't an anti-British racist?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,314
    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,314
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    There's a BritNat vibe with the (currently) ascendant wing of the Tory Party though. I know you agree with this because you've often lamented it - quite eloquently at times too.
    There is certainly a "vibe", which is very regrettable, but to call it a BritNat party is the kind of ridiculous and misleading hyperbole beloved of Scottish Nationalists.
    Are you sure that Gandhi wasn't an anti-British racist?
    My daughters (fully signed up to all the fashionable stuff) go off on a rant when Gandhi is mentioned. Apparently he would be cancelled if still alive.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,196
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    Friend of mine's doing that. Tested positive on what must have been close to her last day.

    Which school?
    Deleted.
    Saw your deleted, so deleted my reply.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,271
    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    We have family friends (head of languages, head of year) working in Dubai currently having to rest in Istanbul before flying back...

    It's a hard life especially when they are discussing current prices in Istanbul (cheap, cheap cheap for obvious reasons)..
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    Friend of mine's doing that. Tested positive on what must have been close to her last day.

    Which school?
    Deleted.
    Saw your deleted, so deleted my reply.
    Deleted
  • pingping Posts: 2,210

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Fuel prices are going to be a major issue for the govt come April and it is, partly, of their own making.

    Gas prices in Europe, per therm, are going up and are high but nowhere near as high as ours.

    It serves the govt right if this blows up in their face.

    Other politicians in other parties cannot complain, they are advocating the same sort of policies that have led to this, in fact demanding we go faster and further.

    Why would they complain ?
    They'll just enjoy the spectacle from the sidelines.

    And complain about the cut in universal credit.
    Yep. It's the old more Tories voted for the Iraq War than Labour argument.
    They can't even abolish VAT and expect a wave of gratitude that bills have gone up a mere 45%.
    Besides, that would be expensive, and Boris is (struggles to get the words out...) right on this one.

    If fuel is more expensive, that's unfortunate but tough. We either pay directly (higher bills) or indirectly (higher taxes to subsidise the fuel bills).

    But that cut in UC, which could have protected the needy, looks even dumber and meaner now than it did at the time, especially since something like this was clearly in the works.
    I have the same instinct on this. I think the energy markets should basically be a free market. Get rid of the cap etc, then be generous with UC.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,271
    Not really - it seems Djokovic is trying to pull a fast one.

    At best its the Australian Tennis Authorities that have screwed something up but the end result will be the same Djokovic will be heading home as a Vaccine martyr.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,209

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    They certainly would be more effective.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Friend returning to teaching gig in Bangkok.
    Forced to spend 7 days isolating in Phuket at school's expense.
    Trauma.

    Friend of mine's doing that. Tested positive on what must have been close to her last day.

    Which school?
    Deleted.
    Saw your deleted, so deleted my reply.
    Yes thanks.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,037
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,674

    Cookie said:

    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.

    I'm pretty uncomfortable with any restrictions on the unvaxxed. For me, restrictions in general are not only bad because they are not effective enough to justify the huge cost/imposition (which is the rational argument), but they are bad in principle - whether they are aimed at me or not. So I am uncomfortable with restrictions on cinemas and theatres even though I have no intention of going to one; and I am uncomfortable wit hrestrictions on the unvaxxed even though I am vaxxed.

    The government is there to serve the people, not harangue or threaten them. The people aren't the government's opponents. Though I'm sure you're talking in the narrower sense of the government serving the interests of the whole population by taking on a small subset of it.

    I'm not that keen on financial carrots, but only on a does-it-work-and-can-we-afford-it question. I suppose you could possibly make a case that the benefit to the economy of getting people vaxxed is worth the spend on incentives, but it doesn't strike me as obvious that this is the case.

    Basically, as I see it, we just have to ride this thing out. Over 90% of the population have been jabbed without having to resort to any particularly regrettable measures. That's pretty good, no?
    ...

    However, a fair compromise on masks would be to make them compulsory for essential settings – groceries, public transport and the like – and voluntary for discretionary settings....
    I'd agree with that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047
    Clever move by PM Scott Morrison in an election year too, say Djokovic cannot be allowed in without more proof and blame the Labor controlled Victoria state government for allowing him in
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,312

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    Be careful not to tweet that, they'll be right on your case.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    edited January 5
    eek said:

    Not really - it seems Djokovic is trying to pull a fast one.

    At best its the Australian Tennis Authorities that have screwed something up but the end result will be the same Djokovic will be heading home as a Vaccine martyr.
    It's also internal politics. Victoria is opposition controlled and had let him in.
    Morrison has been copping some flak federally about the pandemic and has an eye on the election. This one could run.

    Edit. As @HYUFD has spotted.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,554
    MrEd said:

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    They certainly would be more effective.
    Not sure. Too much of an opening for combining that with doing the thieving. Like the chap who contracted for the service before Fielding. That's privatization for you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wild
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,371

    Cookie said:

    The thread headline is equally applicable to the practical options re Covid.

    At the moment, the Government has staked all on vaccination alone, yet is doing next to nothing beyond exhortation to ensure the uptake of vaccination. It's like staking all on a card in poker while letting your opponents see what the card is. More needs to be done - Johnson needs another string to his bow.

    Those options boil down to simply:
    1. More restrictions on everyday life applied to all, in various shades of additional lockdown. All of which has been ruled out.
    2. Measures beyond exhortation to significantly increase the uptake of vaccinations. That's the approach being taken on the continent, in the form of either incentives or in a few cases compulsion.

    For me it should be a combination of extra restrictions and financial penalties targeted at the unvaccinated combined with financial carrots for those that do the right thing.

    I'm pretty uncomfortable with any restrictions on the unvaxxed. For me, restrictions in general are not only bad because they are not effective enough to justify the huge cost/imposition (which is the rational argument), but they are bad in principle - whether they are aimed at me or not. So I am uncomfortable with restrictions on cinemas and theatres even though I have no intention of going to one; and I am uncomfortable wit hrestrictions on the unvaxxed even though I am vaxxed.

    The government is there to serve the people, not harangue or threaten them. The people aren't the government's opponents. Though I'm sure you're talking in the narrower sense of the government serving the interests of the whole population by taking on a small subset of it.

    I'm not that keen on financial carrots, but only on a does-it-work-and-can-we-afford-it question. I suppose you could possibly make a case that the benefit to the economy of getting people vaxxed is worth the spend on incentives, but it doesn't strike me as obvious that this is the case.

    Basically, as I see it, we just have to ride this thing out. Over 90% of the population have been jabbed without having to resort to any particularly regrettable measures. That's pretty good, no?
    Well I'd generally agree, except for your last point.

    Forcing theatregoers to wear masks is extremely regrettable, as going to the theatre is a social and indeed romantic activity, like going to the pub or restaurant, and it's similarly discretionary. If you are worried about covid, don't go to the theatre. Making everyone wear a mask therein just ruins the experience for many (who wants to go on a date and wear a mask?) and has almost no benefit (everyone takes their mask off to drink in the theatre bar anyway – the entire concept is ludicrous).

    I have similar views about masks in fashion stores. Now, going clothes shopping is not something I ever do. Yet for many millions of people (mainly, not exclusively, women) it's a leisure activity. It is also discretionary – if you are worried about covid, don't spend Saturday afternoon pounding the shops with your girlfriends.

    I would have no mask mandates at all. They strike me as a major imposition for little benefit against omicron, and those that are concerned can get an FFP3 mask. Indeed I would state-fund said masks for the vulnerable.

    However, a fair compromise on masks would be to make them compulsory for essential settings – groceries, public transport and the like – and voluntary for discretionary settings.

    As it is, we have a ludicrous muddle whereby pubs, restaurants and clubs are (rightly) mask free but theatres and boutiques are enforced masks.

    Regrettable? You bet.
    Yes, I'd agree with all that. My point is that no particular coercion was needed to get people to get jabbed.
    I agree with your views about masking.
  • Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    I used to work with a woman who was from Kazakhstan but of Russian origin. Her family had been deported there from Russia in Stalin's time for some crime real or (more than likely) imagined. They were kicked off the train by an empty, snow covered field and told to dig in, this was their new home.

    She's no fan of Russia, or Kazakhstan, she got to the west as soon as she could. I wonder how many of those 3.5m Kazakh Russians harbour similar feelings towards the Rodina, and Putin, now.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,157
    Stocky said:

    Betting Post

    Backing Shrewsbury to beat Liverpool in the FA Cup on Sunday is 12.5 on Betfair.

    Looks like Liverpool will be playing the development squad, which is a squad that has four pubes between them all.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/05/liverpool-covid-arsenal-carabao-cup

    Thanks - done it. Also got £2 on for 0-1 Shrewsbury at 36.
    There is a temptation to always assume exchanges offer higher odds - further to above I've just got 60/1 with Bet Victor on a 1-0 Shrewsbury win.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,268
    edited January 5
    IshmaelZ said:
    We did this the other day. Its was reported on about for a month ago, roughly same time as Omicron started to gain traction. The media are picking it up again because of a paper is by Mr hydroxychloroquine has been put on medRxiv.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,088
    Seul moyen d'être sûr.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047
    edited January 5
    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,063
    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    You should all count yourself lucky in having nothing more serious to worry about.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    edited January 5
    Will they call it Omacron?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    That's not how you prevent mutations
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,847

    eek said:

    Betting post on SNP constituencies

    There seem to be 20 or so where a bit of careful planning locally could result in a none SNP winner


    Patrick English
    @PME_Politics
    We've had Walls, Halos, and Heartlands. Now how about we get our very own Belt?

    Everyone, meet the "Yellow Belt".

    20 SNP seats where:
    Yellow circle Majority is under 10%, OR
    Flag of United Kingdom The 'Pro-Union' vote is underperforming based on demographics


    https://patrickenglish.substack.com/p/an-absolute-yellow-belter

    Depends on on how well the SNP does overall, if they get over 45% of the constituency vote they will completely dominate anyway. In the latest Redfield poll, despite Labour moving back into 2nd place the SNP lead over Labour is still the same as 2015. On those figures, only East Lothian is a sort of credible target for Labour.
    The problem with East Lothian (the new constituency is called East Lothian Coast by the way) is that the Tories also target that seat. Which one of the BritNat parties do Unionists vote for?
    There are no "BritNat" parties, except perhaps UKIP and its derivatives and the largely defuncted one that shares two of its initials and a lot of its modus operandi of division, prejudice and hatred with the one that you support.
    You can't tell that from Sweden.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,761
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 646

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    Could be a plan, but I'm going to struggle to fulfil the diversity quota for incompetent lesbians in senior management.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,196
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    You should all count yourself lucky in having nothing more serious to worry about.
    Displacement activity, Mr B2, that's all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,314
    RobD said:

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    Be careful not to tweet that, they'll be right on your case.
    The Met, the skiing Poles or the scrappies?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,109
    Tories are wondering what happened to the Brexit they promised https://on.ft.com/3FXDhh1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    'God I wish I was French', never thought I would see that in a TSE post!
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    Scott_xP said:

    Tories are wondering what happened to the Brexit they promised https://on.ft.com/3FXDhh1

    Which one?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    IshmaelZ said:
    Hmm.
    Is 46 a ludicrously high or laughably small number of mutations? I have honestly no idea, and wouldn't be surprised by either. Nor if it was pretty standard.
    This pandemic certainly has exposed some gaps in everyone's knowledge I reckon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027

    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    I used to work with a woman who was from Kazakhstan but of Russian origin. Her family had been deported there from Russia in Stalin's time for some crime real or (more than likely) imagined. They were kicked off the train by an empty, snow covered field and told to dig in, this was their new home.

    She's no fan of Russia, or Kazakhstan, she got to the west as soon as she could. I wonder how many of those 3.5m Kazakh Russians harbour similar feelings towards the Rodina, and Putin, now.
    Yes, the theory is Putin could use the unrest to annex “north Kazakhstan” - as that’s where most ethnic Russians live. But do they particularly want to be annexed?

    Kazakh GDP per capita is actually higher than Russia’s. They are slightly richer. Ukraine was and is much poorer. A different situation
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047
    Scott_xP said:

    Tories are wondering what happened to the Brexit they promised https://on.ft.com/3FXDhh1

    We are out of the EU, have ended free movement and left the CFP and have trade deals with Australia and NZ and are spending more on the NHS. That is what they were promised
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,157
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    You should all count yourself lucky in having nothing more serious to worry about.
    Oh I do. Plenty. But the little things - grr...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,314
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    Roger said:

    It's the lawlessness that might do it for this government.

    I've had three motor scooters stolen in the last 14 months. The second was filmed on two separate CCTV cameras. The police were inaccessible on all three occasions. The only way of contacting them is online or dialling 999 which mustn't be used other than in an emergency "or you could be putting someone's life at risk" .

    Having done a little detective work online it appears these thefts have reached epidemic proportions. The common thread is we don't have a functioning police force.

    Welcome to the world of de-prioritised crime.

    A farmer I knew never could get the police interested in the steady stream of thefts over the years.

    When he started putting a roof on an ancient stone walled building (a farm cottage that hadn't been lived in since year X and was just the walls and grass) to create a secure store for some equipment, the planning officers and police were out in force. Within hours of the day he started work.
    There was a break in November last year at the firm next to work. Window smashed, place ransacked and about £10k of stuff, mostly power tools disappeared. It turned up yesterday on Facebook marketplace, about 30 miles away. One of their lads went over to the lad selling it, and bought a drill back - and got shown almost all the stolen stuff, plus a lot that's presumably other people's, in a garden shed. So they rang plod with the crime number to tell them to stroll on down, collect the bloke and our gear and they'd be looking forward to his court appearance for handling stolen goods.

    Rang them again this morning to see how they'd got on. They had allocated it to an officer who apparently isn't on shift today. He might ring tomorrow.
    The boss of this particular outfit is less than seeing the funny side. I think if the police don't move reasonably quickly, he knows some particularly unpleasant Poles with a ski-mask each... Apparently they only cost £500 an outing for debt recovery and the like.

    (on this topic, I knew a scrap dealer who had a bit of a problem a few years ago with non-ferrus metals going missing overnight. Apparently after a couple of days left outside cable tied naked to a lump of steel beam with regular offers of a free castration service, the perp was quite contrite, and there was no further trouble for an extended period.)
    You seem to know some lovely people.

    Perhaps you should get them together under an umbrella organisation and make a bid for wholesale replacement of the Metropolitan Police Service?
    Could be a plan, but I'm going to struggle to fulfil the diversity quota for incompetent lesbians in senior management.
    Surely you just list some staff as self identifying as....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,268
    edited January 5
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Hmm.
    Is 46 a ludicrously high or laughably small number of mutations? I have honestly no idea, and wouldn't be surprised by either. Nor if it was pretty standard.
    This pandemic certainly has exposed some gaps in everyone's knowledge I reckon.
    The “IHU variant” may not even be newer than the Omicron variant. The first reported case was detected in mid-November 2021. This may have predated reports of the Omicron variant spreading in South Africa. Since then, at least 11 other people in the same vicinity have tested positive for the B.1.640.2 variant.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/01/04/new-ihu-b16402-covid-19-coronavirus-variant-detected-in-france/

    Doesn't seem that we should be that concerned if since he has been discovered, Omicron is ripping through the whole world, millions and millions of cases per day, and this, a few handfuls in 6-7 weeks.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    ISTM that "kids" is vaguely pejorative; horrid/horrible I would see more as a class indicator, likewise pudding and dessert; and movie is just going with the times as most people consume films on US streaming services and those films in any case are usually US-made.

    I see kids more as informal than pejorative. But if OKC sees it as pejorative I can see why.
    Horrid feels horribly Enid Blyton and twee. (I have actually read a good argument that horrid is the least horrible of the four horrible words, which, getting more horrible, are horrid, horrible, horrendous and horrific. So perhaps has a use as 'horrible, but not that horrible'.)
    Movie is just not as good a word as film. I have also seen an argument that movie denotes a certain sort of film - big Hollywood blockbuster - whereas film is its more thoughtful or arty counterpart. Again, I could get on board with that. But movie seems to just be used for all films nowadays. Sigh.
    And dessert just sounds to me like an affectation. Though I have an Irish friend who finds the word pudding hilarious - hears it as very English and therefore very posh, which is kind of the reverse of how I hear it.
    Never really had an issue with the horri family. Technically, what is horrible or horrendous is what makes you bristle, and horrid is the state you are consequently in on seeing something horrible.

    Cf suck and suckle: babies suck, mothers suckle.
    Objections to "kids" have completely floored me.

    There are many meanings "pudding", including "you great daft pudding".
    "Kids" it is a long lost cause. "Dessert" rather than pudding annoys still. I get irritated when "students" is used to describe under 18s at school rather than pupils.
    You should all count yourself lucky in having nothing more serious to worry about.
    I prefer fret.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,271
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    Hardly surprising

    The unvaccinated aren't Macron supporters and they will probably nicely split that sector in the initial voting so that Macron has an easy opponent in the run-off.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,847
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    Thanks for this. Vital stuff. Can you please keep us informed about the situation in Kazakhstan as your particular insight is very useful on the subject.

    TIA.
    I felt the discussion on the relative poshness of the terms “granny”, “gran”, “grandma”, “nan”, “nonna” and “nonnarrr” had reached a natural terminus

    This is another excellent source for news on Kazakhstan.

    https://twitter.com/dralakbarov/status/1478723735062466564?s=21

    Twitter is at its best with unfolding events like this. Same in the Arab spring
    We need to work out how old they can be, and which one footballers use. :smile:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,994
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Hmm.
    Is 46 a ludicrously high or laughably small number of mutations? I have honestly no idea, and wouldn't be surprised by either. Nor if it was pretty standard.
    This pandemic certainly has exposed some gaps in everyone's knowledge I reckon.
    To be honest most people outside science can't tell the difference between a subscript and a superscript in a chemical formula/symbol, so a detailed understanding of viral mutation is very much going to be beyond them...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,109
    HYUFD said:

    That is what they were promised

    You misread the question
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    I used to work with a woman who was from Kazakhstan but of Russian origin. Her family had been deported there from Russia in Stalin's time for some crime real or (more than likely) imagined. They were kicked off the train by an empty, snow covered field and told to dig in, this was their new home.

    She's no fan of Russia, or Kazakhstan, she got to the west as soon as she could. I wonder how many of those 3.5m Kazakh Russians harbour similar feelings towards the Rodina, and Putin, now.
    Yes, the theory is Putin could use the unrest to annex “north Kazakhstan” - as that’s where most ethnic Russians live. But do they particularly want to be annexed?

    Kazakh GDP per capita is actually higher than Russia’s. They are slightly richer. Ukraine was and is much poorer. A different situation
    Is that so? Now there's something I wouldn't have intuitively guessed. Apart from incorrectly.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    I used to work with a woman who was from Kazakhstan but of Russian origin. Her family had been deported there from Russia in Stalin's time for some crime real or (more than likely) imagined. They were kicked off the train by an empty, snow covered field and told to dig in, this was their new home.

    She's no fan of Russia, or Kazakhstan, she got to the west as soon as she could. I wonder how many of those 3.5m Kazakh Russians harbour similar feelings towards the Rodina, and Putin, now.
    Yes, the theory is Putin could use the unrest to annex “north Kazakhstan” - as that’s where most ethnic Russians live. But do they particularly want to be annexed?

    Kazakh GDP per capita is actually higher than Russia’s. They are slightly richer. Ukraine was and is much poorer. A different situation
    You need to look beyond money, and at Putin's geopolitical strategy. "Eurasia" is a guiding principle for him, not dissimilar from the Nazi preoccupation with unifying "Germans", but on a grander scale. It also shares some of the Nazi justification for expansionism, basing the concept of a Russian-led Eurasia in a semi-mythical past and a view of Russia as being a defender of purity. With those kinds of philosophical motivations, money is likely to not always be the primary driver of foreign and military policy.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Not just humans, I'll add. They scare pets and livestock, too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 13,731
    Not Ihu again. We’ve done this. Repeatedly. FFS.

    @sailorscout

    Guys, B.1.640.2 isn’t new. It actually PREDATES Omicron. It's a sub-lineage of B.1.640- which caused some concern back in mid-November but couldn’t even compete with Delta. B.1.640.2 was first sequenced OVER a month ago and was officially recognized as a lineage in December.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,268
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    I think life is going to be increasingly restricted for anti-vaxxers. I think the UK will continue to go down the softly softly approach, but elsewhere I don't think Macron's stance will be very uncommon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Lots of videos of army/cops surrendering to people. Not sure how the vids are getting out, as Kazakh internet is down 🤷‍♂️

    Fascinating to watch

    Meanwhile Russia has sent in a transport plane - to evacuate or enforce? Rumours that Putin could use the unrest to seize a chunk of the country. 3.5m Russians in Kazakhstan.

    Kaz Prez will have to start shooting soon, or he’s toast

    I used to work with a woman who was from Kazakhstan but of Russian origin. Her family had been deported there from Russia in Stalin's time for some crime real or (more than likely) imagined. They were kicked off the train by an empty, snow covered field and told to dig in, this was their new home.

    She's no fan of Russia, or Kazakhstan, she got to the west as soon as she could. I wonder how many of those 3.5m Kazakh Russians harbour similar feelings towards the Rodina, and Putin, now.
    Yes, the theory is Putin could use the unrest to annex “north Kazakhstan” - as that’s where most ethnic Russians live. But do they particularly want to be annexed?

    Kazakh GDP per capita is actually higher than Russia’s. They are slightly richer. Ukraine was and is much poorer. A different situation
    Is that so? Now there's something I wouldn't have intuitively guessed. Apart from incorrectly.
    Kazakhstan: Relatively small population, lots of oil, gas, minerals
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,847
    When does this new variant get a Greek letter, rather than sounding like a sneeze?

    Are we on Pi or Psi?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 99,047
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    Hardly surprising

    The unvaccinated aren't Macron supporters and they will probably nicely split that sector in the initial voting so that Macron has an easy opponent in the run-off.
    Note even Pecresse joined Le Pen in criticising Macron's remarks, saying the way forward was "You have to accept them as they are - lead them, bring them together and not insult them," she knows she cannot afford any leakage to Le Pen and Zemmour to get to the runoff.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,268

    Not Ihu again. We’ve done this. Repeatedly. FFS.

    @sailorscout

    Guys, B.1.640.2 isn’t new. It actually PREDATES Omicron. It's a sub-lineage of B.1.640- which caused some concern back in mid-November but couldn’t even compete with Delta. B.1.640.2 was first sequenced OVER a month ago and was officially recognized as a lineage in December.

    Its very poor reporting by the media.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,847
    edited January 5
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    He said he sold it, I thought.

    So it's up and down the Hoon Five Hundred.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Not just humans, I'll add. They scare pets and livestock, too.
    They’re hideous. They make me murderously angry. Lots in north London

    But also lots in the countryside and lots across mainland Europe. Ban them
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 890
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Not just the bikes. Don't forget about Corsas and their ilk.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,963
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Yep.
    Strangely. On the topic of gaps in knowledge I complained to my partner of 33 years about this just the other day. She didn't even realise this was a thing. She thought they were just faulty.
    I had to spend some time convincing her I wasn't winding her up.
    "You mean people deliberately make their engines sound like that? Why?"
    Because they are arseholes.
    No really why?
    Arseholes.
    Etc.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,626
    Putin meddling in a bit of Kazakhstan would be great news for the West. Distracts him, sucks a load of money and effort into a region of limited geopolitical importance to us (so long as he leaves the South and central regions alone) and might even have the double bonus of annoying the Chinese a bit.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    edited January 5
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Not just humans, I'll add. They scare pets and livestock, too.
    They’re hideous. They make me murderously angry. Lots in north London

    But also lots in the countryside and lots across mainland Europe. Ban them
    Agreed. It's not a big problem where I currently live -- rural -- but I know that other rural areas do have the problem. I also lived in a city for a while where it was a major issue.
    I have a theory that the noise triggers something primal; a loud animal roar nearby ought to make you produce a shot of adrenaline so you're ready to outrun your fellow tribesfolk and not be eaten by the nearby predator. That's going to cause stress. I'll bet it tips some people into strokes and heart attacks.
    If it were me in charge, I'd crush such vehicles into a small shiny cube. possibly with the drivers still on board.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,027
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile in France, also in an election year, Macron says he will 'piss off' the unvaccinated and prevent them going to a restaurant, having a coffee or going to the theatre or cinema
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

    God I wish I was French, I would love to be in a country run by somebody committed to pissing of the unvaccinated.
    The French are also cracking down on mopeds/motorbikes with altered exhausts designed to make them louder. This may ruin @Dura_Ace’s next trip to his holiday home, but then he’s unvaxxed so he’s not going anyway

    Why can’t we do this in the UK? These bikes are a fucking menace to human sanity
    Yep.
    Strangely. On the topic of gaps in knowledge I complained to my partner of 33 years about this just the other day. She didn't even realise this was a thing. She thought they were just faulty.
    I had to spend some time convincing her I wasn't winding her up.
    "You mean people deliberately make their engines sound like that? Why?"
    Because they are arseholes.
    No really why?
    Arseholes.
    Etc.
    A lot of people hate these horrible machines. I have normally calm friends who will happily rant about them

    So I don’t understand why a political party hasn’t taken it up as an issue. “We will ban them”. Thus making everyone’s life that little bit better, apart from the selfish arseholes that ride them

    It will cost virtually nothing, it’s easy to do, it will be widely popular, it’s practical pavement politics.

    I note there is a Times leader on this point today, so maybe it will finally happen
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,414
This discussion has been closed.