It’s hard to see how Johnson recovers from this – politicalbetting.com

First like Helen Morgan.

The scientists could do for him before the Tory Party - they're furious.

ANALYSIS: PM knows the political danger he’s in. At best this a bruising period, at worst it’s an inflection point in which a politician once celebrated for having the popular touch has become a liability with all the implications that brings

http://news.sky.com/story/johnsons-authority-and-credibility-are160draining-away-and-more-heads-might-have-to-roll-to-save-his-12490422

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both has 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

I think thats called managing expectations - North Shrops aint nothing like the seats listed above (which were all viable LD winnables..... - although C&A was a long shot)

If the Afghan dogs thing proves to be true, while some will say 'Aww poor little doggies', more will be horrified, and many more will ask why his (female) PPS has to 'carrie' the can.

Of course, if one of the mutts were to develop rabies ......

FPT re the Oxford pub with draight milk - thanks to Susil for the very, very apt film parody. And

geoffw said:

Carnyx said:

Sean_F said:

Andy_JS said:

maaarsh said:

This package of measures is so clearly lacking when compared to the claimed threat, indeed so clearly tailored to minimise actual impact (no masks in pub or restaurants) that I can only conclude the decision makers ultimately don't believe there's a really serious problem here. They're just playing politics.

The thought of being able to go to a pub without wearing a mask is the only thing keeping me going at the moment.

I've followed OGH's example, and have given up alcohol. It was quite novel going into a pub today and ordering a pint of tomato juice.

Reminds me of the Oxford pub my friends frequented ca 1980 which had milk on draught for the rowing teams. (Not from the cow, sadly.)

Ever come across milk stout?

No! One learns on PB.

Benpointer said:

Carnyx said:

Sean_F said:

Andy_JS said:

maaarsh said:

This package of measures is so clearly lacking when compared to the claimed threat, indeed so clearly tailored to minimise actual impact (no masks in pub or restaurants) that I can only conclude the decision makers ultimately don't believe there's a really serious problem here. They're just playing politics.

The thought of being able to go to a pub without wearing a mask is the only thing keeping me going at the moment.

I've followed OGH's example, and have given up alcohol. It was quite novel going into a pub today and ordering a pint of tomato juice.

Reminds me of the Oxford pub my friends frequented ca 1980 which had milk on draught for the rowing teams. (Not from the cow, sadly.)

Where did it come from then?

Not DIRECTLY from the cow, I should have said: dispensed from some refrigerated tank like Coke at the bar, with a tap.

If I were a Tory backbencher putting my letter in I would explain that I felt it better to act quickly because it is now obvious that there will now be be scandal after scandal and acting now would give an opportunity to try and establish some sort of government of sanity in time for the next election. I would also be pointing out that if the next election were tight Boris would be losing his seat anyway. Ironically labours best bet now is Boris limping on from one calamity to another.

I think the Tories reputation for regicide has often been overstated simply because of the memory of Thatcher's brutal removal so it is hard to say if they will have the wit to grasp the nettle now. In addition there are a fair few on the government payroll and their needs to be an almighty clear out of inadequates. They will also be aware they cannot trust the membership not to impose another lunatic on them so a coronation may be in order.

Thinking over Boris-gate, the problem for the eternal optimists is that this isn't going away. We have had the same story now for about a month - a bunch of sleazy liars openly pocketing your cash whilst thinking they're above the law. No matter how they try and dodge or distract the story comes back with fresh outrages.

Which is why we can say with high levels of confidence that there will be more damaging revelations. The pattern is drop a bomb, fan the flames, let the outrage simmer, drop the next bomb. Because the PM is such a likeable trustworthy collegiate fellow he has made a whole stack of enemies who are now happy to keep burning the supports out underneath him.

I'm not sure how this ends yet. It would take something utterly outrageous for Johnson to have to resign and the Good News for fans of comedy is there are several things that could do it. There remains the stench over donations to pay for Carrie's his flat refurb, the stench over public money to his mistress, the stench of mysterious awards of vast contracts to inexperienced tiny companies who just so happen to be Tories etc etc etc.

Even if one of them doesn't finish him off, the bang bang bang of all these bombs going off must do eventually, especially now that all the populist stuff is gone and instead its cancel Christmas and here's your fuck off huge tax rise.

FPT: Little bit of a shift in Betfair's next PM. Truss was 5.6, now 7, Starmer was 6, now 7.8. Sunak down to 3.5 (think he was 4.5 or so).

onepureradge said:

Test.

Welcome.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The goalposts have been shifted so far they’ve fallen down.

First it was that Labour is 20 points behind. That wasn’t enough.

Then Labour was tied. It wasn’t enough.

Then Starmer’s ratings were behind Johnson’s. It wasn’t enough.

Now Labour is ahead. But it still isn’t enough.

It never will be enough for certain people.

Given just how shit Johnson is why is t Starmer further ahead?

onepureradge said:

Test.

Successful test. Welcome!

Carnyx said:

FPT re the Oxford pub with draight milk - thanks to Susil for the very, very apt film parody. And

geoffw said:

Carnyx said:

Sean_F said:

Andy_JS said:

maaarsh said:

This package of measures is so clearly lacking when compared to the claimed threat, indeed so clearly tailored to minimise actual impact (no masks in pub or restaurants) that I can only conclude the decision makers ultimately don't believe there's a really serious problem here. They're just playing politics.

The thought of being able to go to a pub without wearing a mask is the only thing keeping me going at the moment.

I've followed OGH's example, and have given up alcohol. It was quite novel going into a pub today and ordering a pint of tomato juice.

Reminds me of the Oxford pub my friends frequented ca 1980 which had milk on draught for the rowing teams. (Not from the cow, sadly.)

Ever come across milk stout?

No! One learns on PB.

Benpointer said:

Carnyx said:

Sean_F said:

Andy_JS said:

maaarsh said:

This package of measures is so clearly lacking when compared to the claimed threat, indeed so clearly tailored to minimise actual impact (no masks in pub or restaurants) that I can only conclude the decision makers ultimately don't believe there's a really serious problem here. They're just playing politics.

The thought of being able to go to a pub without wearing a mask is the only thing keeping me going at the moment.

I've followed OGH's example, and have given up alcohol. It was quite novel going into a pub today and ordering a pint of tomato juice.

Reminds me of the Oxford pub my friends frequented ca 1980 which had milk on draught for the rowing teams. (Not from the cow, sadly.)

Where did it come from then?

Not DIRECTLY from the cow, I should have said: dispensed from some refrigerated tank like Coke at the bar, with a tap.

There’s this place in Estonia that @Leon knows that serves the framed breast milk

“It is their shocking sense of superiority, the sneering elitism and the subsequent lies that are most angering voters.”

The Telegraph is quite the read this morning! 🧐
https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1468850814571712512
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/08/boris-johnson-may-not-recover-double-covid-catastrophe/

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The goalposts have been shifted so far they’ve fallen down.

First it was that Labour is 20 points behind. That wasn’t enough.

Then Labour was tied. It wasn’t enough.

Then Starmer’s ratings were behind Johnson’s. It wasn’t enough.

Now Labour is ahead. But it still isn’t enough.

It never will be enough for certain people.

Absolutely and quite right too. Its the bare minimum that the Opposition should be significantly in the lead when the government is struggling in midterms. It isn't enough though. It is a 'necessary but not sufficient condition'.

Ed Miliband polled 15% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?
Jeremy Corbyn polled 10% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?

If you think that while the government is mired in scandal that Keir Starmer's Labour polling a 4% lead versus Corbyn's 10% lead he polled is "enough" then please rest on your laurels.

Birmingham Conservative MP says 'plan B' restrictions are discriminatory, will cost jobs and he won't vote for them https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-conservative-mp-refuses-vote-22407338

Charles said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The goalposts have been shifted so far they’ve fallen down.

First it was that Labour is 20 points behind. That wasn’t enough.

Then Labour was tied. It wasn’t enough.

Then Starmer’s ratings were behind Johnson’s. It wasn’t enough.

Now Labour is ahead. But it still isn’t enough.

It never will be enough for certain people.

Given just how shit Johnson is why is t Starmer further ahead?

Patience.

Conservatives have fallen about a point a month and Labour have risen about half a point a month, fairly consistently since June.

As long as that continues, that's a big Labour lead in perfectly good time.

And is there any reason for the current trend not to continue?

WhisperingOracle said:

The scientists could do for him before the Tory Party - they're furious.

Hardly surprising the impact of the measures on R0 are probably little more than 0.2 at best and that's before we discover omicron's default R0 figure - which seems to be such that the only fix would be to keep everyone at home 24/7.

HYUFD said:

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris.

Making the same preposterous blanket assertions over and over and over again does not eventually make them true.

If the Conservatives manage to hold the seat comfortably at the end of all this then they'll be satisfied. If the majority is cut to about two votes, not so much.

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The goalposts have been shifted so far they’ve fallen down.

First it was that Labour is 20 points behind. That wasn’t enough.

Then Labour was tied. It wasn’t enough.

Then Starmer’s ratings were behind Johnson’s. It wasn’t enough.

Now Labour is ahead. But it still isn’t enough.

It never will be enough for certain people.

Absolutely and quite right too. Its the bare minimum that the Opposition should be significantly in the lead when the government is struggling in midterms. It isn't enough though. It is a 'necessary but not sufficient condition'.

Ed Miliband polled 15% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?
Jeremy Corbyn polled 10% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?

If you think that while the government is mired in scandal that Keir Starmer's Labour polling a 4% lead versus Corbyn's 10% lead he polled is "enough" then please rest on your laurels.

As always with polls this far out, the direction of travel is the key. When Cameron shat in his pants over UKIP it wasn't over one or two polls, it was because UKIP were continually taking chunks out of them. Its the same here.

There was a clear political consensus that England was going to vote Tory to get Brexit done. That compact held all the way through Brexit and out the other side as the government tempted people with shiny shiny. Allegations were something that could be ignored because shiny shiny

Now that we're deep into cuts and taxy taxy the compact is less secure. Stories that did the rounds 6-12 months back (PPE contracts as an example) and didn't make an impact are now rocket fuel for a sleaze story that isn't slowing down.

So it isn't about any poll you want to look at now whether its the one showing Con +2 or Lab +4. Its that the clear and consistent Tory high base has crumbled and the lead is collapsing into a deficit.

(FPT)

Foxy said:

Nigelb said:

Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation
… Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…

Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.

It would also include my wife and children (who were born here).
A little below 10% of the entire population potentially subject to removal of their citizenship. It is an incredibly dangerous and irresponsible piece of legislation.

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

HYUFD said:

Charles said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

In your innermost heart, do you ever question why you are shilling for a schmuck?

Because I will always be loyal to the leader who won our party the biggest general election victory since Thatcher. Forcing Thatcher out saw the Tories lose 3 out of 4 of the following general elections and I do not want to make the same mistake again.

See too Labour, after Blair was pushed out it has lost 4 general elections in a row

I thought your loyalty was to the party and for what it stood. Not to who happened, at the time, to be the leader.

Nigelb said:

(FPT)

Foxy said:

Nigelb said:

Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation
… Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…

Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.

It would also include my wife and children (who were born here).
A little below 10% of the entire population potentially subject to removal of their citizenship. It is an incredibly dangerous and irresponsible piece of legislation.

FPT I don't know the details of this law change, dual-citizens (and those eligible) like Begum can already be stripped of their citizenship that's already the law because of Blair.

So what's new? What's different to the principle that Blair already made the law here?

Also can someone be stripped of citizenship solely because of eligibility for dual citizenship? Or are there other requirements too, like they're a threat to the country or a terrorist etc? In which case again how is it any different to that which is already the law thanks to Blair?

The Government still think lies are the best way forward...

Oh. No 10 yesterday denied he’d refused to go out to bat for the government and insisted he’d been stood down
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1468854730218684420
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1468853963630034944

TOPPING said:

Remember when people on here were criticising @contrarian and me and others for being anti-lockdown.

This is how it ends. The government being able to restrict freedoms at will for any number of reasons including but not limited to doggies in Afghan, booze ups in No.10 and oh yes, a virus that has to date infected 0.000016% of the population.

And just wait until Lab gets in. They have supported and wanted further restrictions all along the way.

And we the British public have tolerated and encouraged it.

I disagree with you about the need for lockdowns when we had them - hateful as they were.

However, you make a very good point about yesterday's announcements. Remember that earlier this week we were told that they do not have sufficient Omicron data to make any decisions, and it would be at least next week before they could do so.

Then Boris's Bunga Bunga Party became public knowledge. And suddenly "cripes, news conference this afternoon". Where they miraculously DO have the data, we have to do this, following the science etc.

It was noted on here how glum Whitty looked. That he said "this was a decision of the cabinet". THAT is the key point. They are not following the science - they are using it as a political shield for Liar again.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

Who showed you an advance copy of Priti Vacant's next conference speech?

StuartDickson said:

As I predicted, the Swedish Greens have been punished by resigning from the coalition government: now on 3.7%, under the 4% threshold (along with the Liberals).

Magdalena Andersson (S), our first woman PM, gives her party a big boost, to 29% (+4).

All other changes in VI too small to be statistically reliable.

Government (S) and C&S parties:
Social Democrats (S) 29% (+4)
Left Party 10% (-1)
Centre Party 8% (-1)
Greens 4% (-1)

Opposition:
Moderates 21% (-2)
Sweden Democrats 19% (nc)
Christian Democrats 5% (+1)
Liberals 3% (nc)

Novus/SVT today

How does that translate into seats overall though? Losing her coalition partner's seats as they drop out might make forming a Government all the more difficult.

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

The goalposts have been shifted so far they’ve fallen down.

First it was that Labour is 20 points behind. That wasn’t enough.

Then Labour was tied. It wasn’t enough.

Then Starmer’s ratings were behind Johnson’s. It wasn’t enough.

Now Labour is ahead. But it still isn’t enough.

It never will be enough for certain people.

Absolutely and quite right too. Its the bare minimum that the Opposition should be significantly in the lead when the government is struggling in midterms. It isn't enough though. It is a 'necessary but not sufficient condition'.

Ed Miliband polled 15% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?
Jeremy Corbyn polled 10% leads. Was that enough? Did he become Prime Minister?

If you think that while the government is mired in scandal that Keir Starmer's Labour polling a 4% lead versus Corbyn's 10% lead he polled is "enough" then please rest on your laurels.

Let's see what the polling is next week.

pigeon said:

TOPPING said:

Boris has nothing to worry about because Labour will support him in the vote and hence it passes and he lives to fight another day. 2024 is miles away.

This will come to be SKS' biggest error. Boring fine, no charisma so what, wooden yes. But supporting the government in vote after vote after vote - unforgiveable.

Unfortunately for Labour, given that the one thing we can pretty much guarantee is that they'll always be in favour of more Draconian measures than those proposed by the Government, there's really nothing they can do but vote for every new piece of Covid legislation. They can't plausibly be in favour of stapling masks to everyone's faces one minute, and then take action which means the expansion of mask mandates is defeated in a Parliamentary vote the next.

"Give us the exact rules we want or we'll make sure there are no rules at all" isn't a plausible threat.

Their position should be anything that you do we would do better. Any situation, event, crisis would be better handled by us than you.

But it has to date been - we agree with and will vote for you. It will all come back to bite them when they try to become an opposition again because the charge will be - but you supported us consistently these past years why now do you think we've got it wrong when you thought we had it right then.

And it will stick.

RochdalePioneers said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

Who showed you an advance copy of Priti Vacant's next conference speech?

Not sure whether to like this or not. Some fanatics might get the impression I was agreeing with La Patel's ideas rather than your irony.

"There is an overpowering fin-de-regime stench emanating from Downing Street that can no longer be ignored" | Writes @allisterheath

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/08/boris-johnson-may-not-recover-double-covid-catastrophe/

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

Remember when people on here were criticising @contrarian and me and others for being anti-lockdown.

This is how it ends. The government being able to restrict freedoms at will for any number of reasons including but not limited to doggies in Afghan, booze ups in No.10 and oh yes, a virus that has to date infected 0.000016% of the population.

And just wait until Lab gets in. They have supported and wanted further restrictions all along the way.

And we the British public have tolerated and encouraged it.

I disagree with you about the need for lockdowns when we had them - hateful as they were.

However, you make a very good point about yesterday's announcements. Remember that earlier this week we were told that they do not have sufficient Omicron data to make any decisions, and it would be at least next week before they could do so.

Then Boris's Bunga Bunga Party became public knowledge. And suddenly "cripes, news conference this afternoon". Where they miraculously DO have the data, we have to do this, following the science etc.

It was noted on here how glum Whitty looked. That he said "this was a decision of the cabinet". THAT is the key point. They are not following the science - they are using it as a political shield for Liar again.

And, just like Walter Wolfgang, it is a fantasy to think that governments won't use the tools available and provided by the electorate to do so.

It was always ever the principle of lockdowns (do they work well of course they do) that I despised because lo and behold at some point instead of doing something that "I" agree with they will do something that I disagree with.

Plenty here on PB mocked me and @contrarian right up until the point their own red lines were breached at which point they said - ridiculous: no more lockdowns. But by that time they had ceded the ground to the government because right from the beginning they allowed them to do this.

And lo here we are.

TOPPING said:

Remember when people on here were criticising @contrarian and me and others for being anti-lockdown.

This is how it ends. The government being able to restrict freedoms at will for any number of reasons including but not limited to doggies in Afghan, booze ups in No.10 and oh yes, a virus that has to date infected 0.000016% of the population.

And just wait until Lab gets in. They have supported and wanted further restrictions all along the way.

And we the British public have tolerated and encouraged it.

They have tolerated and encouraged it from both the left and the right of the spectrum. See excellent article below if you get get past the paywall:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/15/liberal-democracy-will-biggest-casualty-pandemic/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

And the most frightening aspect is that he is not some lone nutter on an obscure blog, but an elected Conservative councillor who has a realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate. In any healthy democracy such unpleasant extremists would be expelled from a mainstream political party.

Says a supporter of the Scottish National Party, a party filled with extremist lunatics

Who are all moderate rational people compared to Blue Corbynites like you.

StuartDickson said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

And the most frightening aspect is that he is not some lone nutter on an obscure blog, but an elected Conservative councillor who has a realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate. In any healthy democracy such unpleasant extremists would be expelled from a mainstream political party.

Oh I don't think he has any realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate.

He has a chance of being selected as one followed by rapid removal as a few posters on here inform the constituency of his posts on here. His views that abortion should be a political rather than personal moral decision would I suspect be enough for his removal - I can see about 80% of the (female) population voting instantly for anyone else once that was known.

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

Yesterday you accused me of the same i.e. wanting to get rid of Boris so us Liberal remainers can win an election. Chance would be a fine thing. Haven't won for about 100 years. Not going to start now regardless.

But doesn't the sample of PB tell you how stupid that statement is. Almost the entire cohort of PB Tories want him gone. If he goes the LDs will lose the potential support of every single one of them back to the Tories.

HYUFD said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

You never supported Boris anyway, nor showed any gratitude that it is only down to Boris winning in 2019 you got your precious Brexit

At least I had the decency to put principle before my own personal desires. Hence the reason I could not vote for Johnson even with the threat to Brexit. Whilst you would do anything to keep your precious party in power no matter how warped or degraded it has become.

eek said:

StuartDickson said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

And the most frightening aspect is that he is not some lone nutter on an obscure blog, but an elected Conservative councillor who has a realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate. In any healthy democracy such unpleasant extremists would be expelled from a mainstream political party.

Oh I don't think he has any realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate.

He has a chance of being selected as one followed by rapid removal as a few posters on here inform the constituency of his posts on here.

Maybe social media has its virtues after all.

FPT

RochdalePioneers said:

darkage said:

Nigelb said:

Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation
… Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…

This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.

The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.

This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)

Well well. I did say that the aim of this policy and the voters the Tories are appeasing was to get rid of the darkies and here it is. It isn't just authoritarian, it's openly racist.

I don't think this one is racist. It is just using a sledgehammer to crack a nut (the Begum problems), but the possible negative outcomes are catastrophic and far, far exceed any benefit from the legislation. This is the reality of being ruled by an arrogant government with a compliant and broken civil service. Everyone eventually has a breaking point; it is noticeable that almost everyone who posts on this website has reached it with this government over the past few weeks.

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

And the most frightening aspect is that he is not some lone nutter on an obscure blog, but an elected Conservative councillor who has a realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate. In any healthy democracy such unpleasant extremists would be expelled from a mainstream political party.

Says a supporter of the Scottish National Party, a party filled with extremist lunatics

You're the one who gets all excited about beating up grannies in the Castilian language, and who condemns the past and present leaders of the Scottish Conservative Party for not being Tories. You're leaving them the only option of independence from the Epping Conservative Party.

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Stocky said:

HYUFD said:

Liberal Remainers have wanted Boris out since day 1 since he is by far the most charismatic figure to hold the Leave coalition together which won the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 2019. Remove Boris and it could be much harder for the Tories to stay in power after 10 years and keep the Redwall.

Getting concerned about a mere 4% Labour poll lead in midterm would be absurd when even Kinnock for most of 1990 and Ed Miliband in 2012 both had 10%+ leads midterm and Blair had 20%+ leads by the end of 1994.

If the Tories held North Shropshire it would ironically now be a triumph for Boris. The first Tory by election hold over the LDs since Witney in 2016, the Tories having lost Richmond Park, Brecon and Radnor and Chesham and Amersham to the LDs in by elections since

You say "over the LDs" but LP is second party in this seat by a margin, 2019: 63/22/10%.

If CP does squeak it and tactical voting means that LP loses its deposit then Johnson has a couple of reasons to be very happy I agree.

Your posts are unremittingly in support of Johnson for the sole reason that he wins elections. I'm curious though - aren't you concerned at all about the directions that this administration is going in, for example the authoritarian direction including the bill to create second class citizens in this country?

Hahaha. You are talking to the man who thought we should use tanks on Scotland if they dare to vote to leave the Union and was cheerleading the Spanish police beating up Grannies for daring to vote. You could have the army shooting down students in the street and he would still be cheerleading this bunch of lunatics.

And the most frightening aspect is that he is not some lone nutter on an obscure blog, but an elected Conservative councillor who has a realistic chance of being a parliamentary candidate. In any healthy democracy such unpleasant extremists would be expelled from a mainstream political party.

Says a supporter of the Scottish National Party, a party filled with extremist lunatics

There are strange folk in every party.

Yes but in support of HYUFD (someone has to) the SNP is stuffed with them