The Tories get their best voting poll for more than three weeks – politicalbetting.com
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PB is the best place to find erratics.Richard_Nabavi said:
Only on PB...Benpointer said:
Flint yes, flint is found in chalk. Basalt no (except a few glacial erratics).MoonRabbit said:
I have been to flint mines in Norfolk. I remember it.Farooq said:
Don't listen to Leon. Everyone knows you don't find basalt in Suffolk.MoonRabbit said:
what? I have been to Grimey Graves when I was small. But I didn’t realise they made these things.Leon said:
I'm a self employed knapper of flint sex toys, based in Camden and Grimes GravesMoonRabbit said:
Yes. If you can have a laugh, does this mean you are feeling better now already?Leon said:
I am, clearly, having a laugh. It's all we have leftmoonshine said:
You’re on top form tonight my friend! Pour that gin and relax.Leon said:
If it is the latter we are basically looking at a new pandemic, all over again. Surely not as bad, but it means more lockdowns, more packed hospitals, many more deaths. And probably mandatory vaxMaxPB said:
30% for double jabbed or triple, if it's the former it's not that much worse than delta, if it's the latter then we've got problems.Leon said:More from Planet Plague
"South Africa has been put on the UK’s red list for travel as health officials and ministers scramble to stop the new Covid “super-variant” from entering the UK, with one scientific expert describing it as the worst variant they have seen.
"UK experts believe the variant, B.1.1.529, which is rapidly spreading in South Africa, can reduce the effectiveness of vaccines to as little as 30 per cent."
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/uk-scrambles-to-block-worst-ever-covid-variant-as-travellers-from-south-africa-urged-to-take-tests-1320497
And who is to say the virus will not evolve AGAIN? Next winter?
I don't wish to be hyperbolic but we are almost certainly witnessing the end of human society as we know it.
However this does seem a deeply serious development to me, the government's incredibly swift reaction - in contrast to their usual sloth - tells me this is so. The variant was only identified on Tuesday and already they have banned all travel from SA, two days later?!
It is the most perilous time for humanity since Delta emerged last year
Reactions seem different for everyone. I think a reaction means good immune system.
will you be getting your time off from your employer okay? What do you do Leon?
Weirdly, Covid has been quite good for me. Major demand for basalt butt plugs from bored people
Edit. Or somewhere close by Norfolk.0 -
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.0 -
Vaccines DO stop people catching and passing on Covid. If they didn’t then why is R in the Uk around 1 with virtually no restrictions (especially England)? Don’t confuse not being 100% with not working at all. Israel is highly vaccinated and has few cases currently.rural_voter said:
The 'vaccines' are 'leaky' and don't stop a person catching the disease or passing it on. For the first 2-3 wks immunity may be lower than in an unvaccinated person. After maybe 5-6 months of elevated immunity, they're again useless.turbotubbs said:
Israel data looks great now post boosters. We’re not far behind. I suspect tonight is a cautious wobble that won’t come to much, but we will see.Heathener said:
But not that bit when you said, and I quote, 'we've got this virus beat.'Leon said:
Actually I'm not having a go. Six months back I too thought we were going to smash it. Then I began to see the data from Israel and I realised that we weren't at all, that we were in fact still facing a god-almighty battle.
Two more years of this I reckon, with downs and ups along the way. A tough winter ahead I fear.
Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on earth. Egypt has a low COVID rate and seems to have a vaccination rate of ... 13%.
If you're in a deep political hole, stop digging and look to your neighbours ... if they're not also in a hole.
There's also a talk by John Campbell 'miracle in Japan'. What could have reduced COVID to almost zero, unlike Israel?
As to Japan, there is evidence that Asian populations have ore-existing levels of immunity not seen elsewhere.
I don’t know why I bother to reply, all we really need is some worming medication, right?1 -
Well, yes, but they're not usually glacial.Fairliered said:
PB is the best place to find erratics.Richard_Nabavi said:
Only on PB...Benpointer said:
Flint yes, flint is found in chalk. Basalt no (except a few glacial erratics).MoonRabbit said:
I have been to flint mines in Norfolk. I remember it.Farooq said:
Don't listen to Leon. Everyone knows you don't find basalt in Suffolk.MoonRabbit said:
what? I have been to Grimey Graves when I was small. But I didn’t realise they made these things.Leon said:
I'm a self employed knapper of flint sex toys, based in Camden and Grimes GravesMoonRabbit said:
Yes. If you can have a laugh, does this mean you are feeling better now already?Leon said:
I am, clearly, having a laugh. It's all we have leftmoonshine said:
You’re on top form tonight my friend! Pour that gin and relax.Leon said:
If it is the latter we are basically looking at a new pandemic, all over again. Surely not as bad, but it means more lockdowns, more packed hospitals, many more deaths. And probably mandatory vaxMaxPB said:
30% for double jabbed or triple, if it's the former it's not that much worse than delta, if it's the latter then we've got problems.Leon said:More from Planet Plague
"South Africa has been put on the UK’s red list for travel as health officials and ministers scramble to stop the new Covid “super-variant” from entering the UK, with one scientific expert describing it as the worst variant they have seen.
"UK experts believe the variant, B.1.1.529, which is rapidly spreading in South Africa, can reduce the effectiveness of vaccines to as little as 30 per cent."
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/uk-scrambles-to-block-worst-ever-covid-variant-as-travellers-from-south-africa-urged-to-take-tests-1320497
And who is to say the virus will not evolve AGAIN? Next winter?
I don't wish to be hyperbolic but we are almost certainly witnessing the end of human society as we know it.
However this does seem a deeply serious development to me, the government's incredibly swift reaction - in contrast to their usual sloth - tells me this is so. The variant was only identified on Tuesday and already they have banned all travel from SA, two days later?!
It is the most perilous time for humanity since Delta emerged last year
Reactions seem different for everyone. I think a reaction means good immune system.
will you be getting your time off from your employer okay? What do you do Leon?
Weirdly, Covid has been quite good for me. Major demand for basalt butt plugs from bored people
Edit. Or somewhere close by Norfolk.0 -
Are we fresh out of SAM?Pro_Rata said:
Two Joburg to London flights are in the air now, a couple of hours into their journey and still to cross the Equator, and landing around 6-7 am tomorrow. I take it those will be the last to land.Benpointer said:
Not quite:turbotubbs said:
At least on this occasion we did it as soon as we saw the horse had gone...Philip_Thompson said:
Its relatively easy for the government to do this as besides South Africa perhaps there's not exactly going to be hordes of people complaining about their holiday to Botswana getting ruined on Sky tomorrow.Foss said:
Apparently it's already been detected in Hong Kong so this Red List stuff now feels a little pointless.Leon said:
Here you go. I got it bang onBigRich said:
Do we know which 6? our friends where expecting relatives to visit form Zimbabwe, I'm guessing that will be on the list?Leon said:BREAKING
- UK govt places 6 African countries on its travel red list, due to new variant spreading in South Africa
"Flights from South Africa, Namibia, Lesotho, Botswana, Eswatini and Zimbabwe will be suspended from Friday and all six countries will be added to the red list, after the discovery of a new Covid variant which one official called the “worst one we’ve seen”"
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1463978953857814528?s=20
But its a bit closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Either we redlist the planet or this is coming, if its transmissable.
Javid: "So what we will be doing is from midday tomorrow we will be suspending all flights from six, southern African countries and we will add in those countries to the travel red list. " (my bold)
Admittedly, it's a sight quicker than previous lax attempts.
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I am also doubtful about the translation. I thought he said, "listen very carefully, I will say this only once."geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
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This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow0 -
I doubt it would close labs or end careers. We do as scientists take safety very seriously. I sit on three safety committees at work. But we are all human, and no matter how good your protocols are, mistakes get made.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism0 -
Also the vaccines have clearly broken the link between illness and hospitalisation/death.turbotubbs said:
Vaccines DO stop people catching and passing on Covid. If they didn’t then why is R in the Uk around 1 with virtually no restrictions (especially England)? Don’t confuse not being 100% with not working at all. Israel is highly vaccinated and has few cases currently.rural_voter said:
The 'vaccines' are 'leaky' and don't stop a person catching the disease or passing it on. For the first 2-3 wks immunity may be lower than in an unvaccinated person. After maybe 5-6 months of elevated immunity, they're again useless.turbotubbs said:
Israel data looks great now post boosters. We’re not far behind. I suspect tonight is a cautious wobble that won’t come to much, but we will see.Heathener said:
But not that bit when you said, and I quote, 'we've got this virus beat.'Leon said:
Actually I'm not having a go. Six months back I too thought we were going to smash it. Then I began to see the data from Israel and I realised that we weren't at all, that we were in fact still facing a god-almighty battle.
Two more years of this I reckon, with downs and ups along the way. A tough winter ahead I fear.
Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on earth. Egypt has a low COVID rate and seems to have a vaccination rate of ... 13%.
If you're in a deep political hole, stop digging and look to your neighbours ... if they're not also in a hole.
There's also a talk by John Campbell 'miracle in Japan'. What could have reduced COVID to almost zero, unlike Israel?
As to Japan, there is evidence that Asian populations have ore-existing levels of immunity not seen elsewhere.
I don’t know why I bother to reply, all we really need is some worming medication, right?1 -
Three safety committees? What is god's name are you involved in that needs that much safety!? I hope you are on the ball.turbotubbs said:
I doubt it would close labs or end careers. We do as scientists take safety very seriously. I sit on three safety committees at work. But we are all human, and no matter how good your protocols are, mistakes get made.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism0 -
It was the first item on BBC news before my wife rolled her eyes and pointedly walked upstairs to our bedroom. Not sure how long I'll hold out now...Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow1 -
The extreme cynic in me suspects the guardian hopes it’s really bad and forces Johnson to cancel Christmas, just because.Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow2 -
Who reads yesterday's papers? Who needs yesterday's Nus?turbotubbs said:
Pretty sure that’s based on potential results based on PCR drop out rates. May be all Nu, may not be.Leon said:
I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps that means tests properly sequenced. SA today reports 2,400 cases or so, and it is thought 70-100% of them are Nu. There is no other reason for this sudden surge - doubling approximately every dayDavidL said:Only 59 cases identified. This virus is the most closely and rapidly examined in human history. We can only draw some hope from that.
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Does it have a definite answer, or are we (the world, the scientific community) still guessing?rural_voter said:There's also a talk by John Campbell 'miracle in Japan'. What could have reduced COVID to almost zero, unlike Israel?
One of the things I've realised is that personally I have absolutely no sense for whether cases are going to trend up or down at any point in time or space. Why do some countries do so much better than others? Why do different areas within the UK have such different trajectories sometimes? I have no idea...
0 -
The other night I had “we’ll have to agree to disagree” and that was that. I hate that shit. The polite real life version of Muting on social media.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism0 -
Cheers, missed that bit out. Boosters are currently giving a superb d3coupling effect right now. See bristoliver on Twitter.Taz said:
Also the vaccines have clearly broken the link between illness and hospitalisation/death.turbotubbs said:
Vaccines DO stop people catching and passing on Covid. If they didn’t then why is R in the Uk around 1 with virtually no restrictions (especially England)? Don’t confuse not being 100% with not working at all. Israel is highly vaccinated and has few cases currently.rural_voter said:
The 'vaccines' are 'leaky' and don't stop a person catching the disease or passing it on. For the first 2-3 wks immunity may be lower than in an unvaccinated person. After maybe 5-6 months of elevated immunity, they're again useless.turbotubbs said:
Israel data looks great now post boosters. We’re not far behind. I suspect tonight is a cautious wobble that won’t come to much, but we will see.Heathener said:
But not that bit when you said, and I quote, 'we've got this virus beat.'Leon said:
Actually I'm not having a go. Six months back I too thought we were going to smash it. Then I began to see the data from Israel and I realised that we weren't at all, that we were in fact still facing a god-almighty battle.
Two more years of this I reckon, with downs and ups along the way. A tough winter ahead I fear.
Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on earth. Egypt has a low COVID rate and seems to have a vaccination rate of ... 13%.
If you're in a deep political hole, stop digging and look to your neighbours ... if they're not also in a hole.
There's also a talk by John Campbell 'miracle in Japan'. What could have reduced COVID to almost zero, unlike Israel?
As to Japan, there is evidence that Asian populations have ore-existing levels of immunity not seen elsewhere.
I don’t know why I bother to reply, all we really need is some worming medication, right?0 -
June 26th, so the timetable makes complete sense. Assuming that one thinks that allowing people to book after five months but forcing them still to wait the full six for an appointment makes any sense, of course.Benpointer said:
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.
If hurrying up the administration of the boosters is the primary aim of the exercise then quite why the gap is still in place, God alone knows.0 -
Either Katya Adler is taller than I thought or Michal Husein is smaller. Or both.0
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Come on, man up and do your duty. How much of a hint do you need?MaxPB said:
It was the first item on BBC news before my wife rolled her eyes and pointedly walked upstairs to our bedroom. Not sure how long I'll hold out now...Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow8 -
No, I’m really not. Just responsible. One of the worst incidents this summer was one of my students...kle4 said:
Three safety committees? What is god's name are you involved in that needs that much safety!? I hope you are on the ball.turbotubbs said:
I doubt it would close labs or end careers. We do as scientists take safety very seriously. I sit on three safety committees at work. But we are all human, and no matter how good your protocols are, mistakes get made.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism0 -
The Spectator has done an interview with French presidential candidate Éric Zemmour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5lw4VeKpo0 -
I guess it depends on how friendly she looked...MaxPB said:
It was the first item on BBC news before my wife rolled her eyes and pointedly walked upstairs to our bedroom. Not sure how long I'll hold out now...Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow2 -
Amazing story about the Rutland Roman mosaic.3
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Tricky. I assume it's a balance where six months is felt to be the optimum gap.pigeon said:
June 26th, so the timetable makes complete sense. Assuming that one thinks that allowing people to book after five months but forcing them still to wait the full six for an appointment makes any sense, of course.Benpointer said:
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.
If hurrying up the administration of the boosters is the primary aim of the exercise then quite why the gap is still in place, God alone knows.
If it reduced to, say four months we're all looking at three boosters a year rather than two. People will get vaccine-weary.0 -
In other Covid related new:
German has reputed 76,132 new cases and 315 new deaths, their highest number of new cases in the whole pandemic.0 -
I hate it as well. Worse, it comes with an eye-roll of moral superiority, like you are making some racist comment. It is ridiculous. If it DID come from Wuhan, America is equally to blame, as Fauci quasi-covertly funded the research there. It is not racist to blame China AND Americamoonshine said:
The other night I had “we’ll have to agree to disagree” and that was that. I hate that shit. The polite real life version of Muting on social media.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism
And major British institutions - like the Lancet and Nature - were complicit in the early cover-up, which definitely DID happen1 -
My father believes a variant of that one. Apparently there is the will and skill to undertake such a phony operation, and cover it up with all the people who would need to be involved, but it'd just be far too inconvenient to have it happen more than a few miles from Porton Down to allay suspicion.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia.turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
He's gotten really into conspiracy theories as he's gotten older for some reason.0 -
On the Salisbury attacks I read somewhere that Skripal wasn’t the point, it was to do an attack near Porton Down. No idea if that’s true. Bloody lucky for the Skripals and the copper though, thanks to the expertise on hand and regular contact between the local nhs and DSTL. No coincidence that they lived after a supposedly lethal attack.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia. If you start from a point of scepticism about the UK government, and someone offers you that story, what can possibly convince you?turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
People shortcut to authorities, believing what a trusted figure tells them. Which might be problematic. Frequently.
This is why the resistance to the "lab" theory. It was put about by Donald Trump. Donald Trump's other notable contributions to the public understanding of Covid was that it wasn't in America (it was), it was going to disappear (it didn't), and that bleach or somehow exposing your insides to sunlight cure you (not advisable). Oh and the various quack cures he and his acolytes pushed. In that context, when he says without backing it up that it came from a lab, do you believe him? Of course not. And when someone later says to you "ooh it might have come from a lab!", all you can think is "bleach, sunlight, shut the fuck up."
We're all caught in a position of having to rely on SOMEONE for information, and we all use heuristics - mental shortcuts - to quickly assess whether something is worth thinking about. If your heuristic is "I only head this from Donald Trump so it's probably bollocks", then that's very understandable. It might sometimes lead you astray because even Donald fucking Trump is right sometimes, but there has to be some pathway to something you really trust. And in these furious, polarised times, authority is patchy.0 -
May as well take every plan you have for every year for the rest of your life and chuck it in the bin.Leon said:"Johnson has always caveated his comments when he is asked about Christmas – roughly once a week – that new variants could throw plans off course. Now the worst news has come from South Africa – a variant that is feared to be more transmissible and has the potential to evade immunity."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/action-over-variant-shows-government-keen-to-avoid-christmas-calamity-of-2020
Take every plan you had for 2022, and chuck it in the bin
As if it is not the Botswana and South Africa variant, the next year it will be the Peru variant, the year after it will be the Egyptian variant etc. Every time we get a variant which is a bit more transmissible in fact.
Unless it proves completely vaccine resistant we cannot lockdown again, otherwise if we do I think on and off and on again lockdowns will be with us indefinitely and that could wipe out most of the hospitality and retail industry for good0 -
People don’t want to hear that either though. Because Trump didn’t get on with Fauci. So Fauci must therefore be right and righteous about everything.Leon said:
I hate it as well. Worse, it comes with an eye-roll of moral superiority, like you are making some racist comment. It is ridiculous. If it DID come from Wuhan, America is equally to blame, as Fauci quasi-covertly funded the research there. It is not racist to blame China AND Americamoonshine said:
The other night I had “we’ll have to agree to disagree” and that was that. I hate that shit. The polite real life version of Muting on social media.Leon said:
I can actually understand why virologists and epidemiologists (etc) are so fiercely if illogically resistant to the lab leak idea. If it is ever proved, it means their profession was responsible for killing millions and millions of people. It will also close down labs and careersglw said:
SARS escaped the same lab in China TWICE. A big flu epidemic in the 70s was almost certainly a lab escape from Russia as well. More generally serious lab accidents involving chemical, biological, and radioactive material are not uncommon.moonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
I think science generally and medicine in particular has a problem accepting that human falibility renders extensive security and safety measures ineffective.
It is the non scientists who evince the same response that intrigue me. Arty types, generally lefty - but not always. They cannot cope with the idea it might be true, and, as moonshine says, it can make them really really angry. Is it Trump? A strange little behaviourism
And major British institutions - like the Lancet and Nature - were complicit in the early cover-up, which definitely DID happen0 -
No guarantee we will need regular boosting. It could be that three is the magic number.Benpointer said:
Tricky. I assume it's a balance where six months is felt to be the optimum gap.pigeon said:
June 26th, so the timetable makes complete sense. Assuming that one thinks that allowing people to book after five months but forcing them still to wait the full six for an appointment makes any sense, of course.Benpointer said:
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.
If hurrying up the administration of the boosters is the primary aim of the exercise then quite why the gap is still in place, God alone knows.
If it reduced to, say four months we're all looking at three boosters a year rather than two. People will get vaccine-weary.0 -
Old people, eh!kle4 said:
My father believes that one. Apparently there is the will and skill to undertake such a phony operation, and cover it up with all the people who would need to be involved, but it'd just be far too inconvenient to have it happen more than a few miles from Porton Down to allay suspicion.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia.turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
He's gotten really into conspiracy theories as he's gotten older for some reason.
0 -
-
See my post. It’s a theory that Skripal was targeted as they lived near a Porton Down, above all else, so it’s not a coincidence.kle4 said:
My father believes that one. Apparently there is the will and skill to undertake such a phony operation, and cover it up with all the people who would need to be involved, but it'd just be far too inconvenient to have it happen more than a few miles from Porton Down to allay suspicion.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia.turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
He's gotten really into conspiracy theories as he's gotten older for some reason.
I don’t really see what we gained from an inside job. It cost millions and to what end? The sad death of a women from Amesbury and the loss of a good police officer from the force.0 -
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.0 -
Six months or so is reckoned to be optimal, in the abstract. However, we don't live in the abstract, and taking that down to five months (as Ireland and some other countries are doing) looks a no-brainer to me, given all the other factors. The six months is only approximate, and getting more people triple-jabbed should be a top priority now, IMO.Benpointer said:
Tricky. I assume it's a balance where six months is felt to be the optimum gap.pigeon said:
June 26th, so the timetable makes complete sense. Assuming that one thinks that allowing people to book after five months but forcing them still to wait the full six for an appointment makes any sense, of course.Benpointer said:
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.
If hurrying up the administration of the boosters is the primary aim of the exercise then quite why the gap is still in place, God alone knows.
If it reduced to, say four months we're all looking at three boosters a year rather than two. People will get vaccine-weary.0 -
2 mins if that on Sky about it. With the concluding remark that the flight ban is really shit for people with family in South Africa so close before Christmas. They’re now showing a happy looking Alsatian in the new army Ranger division.Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow0 -
He has fallen back a bit.Andy_JS said:The Spectator has done an interview with French presidential candidate Éric Zemmour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5lw4VeKpo
Latest poll for 1st round
Macron 25%
Le Pen 20%
Bertrand 13%
Zemmour 12%
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1463958360550785027?s=201 -
I am happy to report that I am feeling a little better. Tho I have had an enormous gin and tonic and several other painkillers. Perhaps my mini-cytokine storm has passed. Now can everyone please stop hyper-vemtilating about Nu
Which reminds me, my ex girlfriend used to call her naughty bits "my Nunu"
I am not sure of the relevance of this, but I'm just punting it out there0 -
He is, which is also a bit odd as he's been everything from Tory to LD to OMRLP and everything between in the past, so fervour was not expected. His wife is an even bigger Corbyn fan - visiting the saturday after GE2019 was an...interesting time I can tell you.Farooq said:
Is he also a Corbyn fan? There's a bit of a correlation between the two in my experience.kle4 said:
My father believes that one. Apparently there is the will and skill to undertake such a phony operation, and cover it up with all the people who would need to be involved, but it'd just be far too inconvenient to have it happen more than a few miles from Porton Down to allay suspicion.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia.turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
He's gotten really into conspiracy theories as he's gotten older for some reason.1 -
Case rise is still mostly in the unvaccinated children. @Malmesbury helpfully posts this up every day. In older, booster groups cases are declining. Admissions are down from over 1000 a day, to below 800. In hospital numbers are 2000 down from the recent peak. Things look like they are going in the right direction.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.1 -
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.0 -
The German per capita case rate is currently following a very steep trajectory with no sign of slowing down. France, with it's additional restrictions, is demonstrating precisely the same pattern, only with a two week delay: German cases took off in mid-October, French ones at the end of the month.BigRich said:In other Covid related new:
German has reputed 76,132 new cases and 315 new deaths, their highest number of new cases in the whole pandemic.
Ireland started going to pot around the beginning of October and is therefore in even worse shape than Germany. The rates in Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands all seem to have started climbing about the same time as Germany but have skyrocketed even faster. Spain and Portugal both seem to be going the way of France, but from a slightly lower base. Rates in Italy currently look as if they're increasing at a less alarming rate, but it's a bit soon to tell.
The UK is an obvious outlier which, as we know, has been exhibiting moderately high but fluctuating infection rates continuously since July.0 -
At extreme risk of hubris, but maybe it was right to open up in July, and allow lots of cases? High price in deaths to now, maybe fewer for us in the next few months.pigeon said:
The German per capita case rate is currently following a very steep trajectory with no sign of slowing down. France, with it's additional restrictions, is demonstrating precisely the same pattern, only with a two week delay: German cases took off in mid-October, French ones at the end of the month.BigRich said:In other Covid related new:
German has reputed 76,132 new cases and 315 new deaths, their highest number of new cases in the whole pandemic.
Ireland started going to pot around the beginning of October and is therefore in even worse shape than Germany. The rates in Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands all seem to have started climbing about the same time as Germany but have skyrocketed even faster. Spain and Portugal both seem to be going the way of France, but from a slightly lower base. Rates in Italy currently look as if they're increasing at a less alarming rate, but it's a bit soon to tell.
The UK is an obvious outlier which, as we know, has been exhibiting moderately high but fluctuating infection rates continuously since July.0 -
While we wait for the local by -elections results I can say that there are bullish comments coming out of the Lib Dem camp in North Shropshire. Their national campaign chief has arrived in the constituency and is staying for a few days. Some canvassers are reporting that the response is better than C and A - but that there are only 3 weeks left rather than 6 weeks.2
-
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.0 -
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say let 'em crash.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.1 -
Let's hope so.turbotubbs said:
No guarantee we will need regular boosting. It could be that three is the magic number.Benpointer said:
Tricky. I assume it's a balance where six months is felt to be the optimum gap.pigeon said:
June 26th, so the timetable makes complete sense. Assuming that one thinks that allowing people to book after five months but forcing them still to wait the full six for an appointment makes any sense, of course.Benpointer said:
When was your 2nd jab?pigeon said:
Computer now says yes! That's the good news. The bad news is that the booster appointment is for December 29th. As I said, painfully slow.pigeon said:
Yes, I can just imagine that even when computer finally says "Yes" (hopefully tomorrow) it will probably only offer me appointment slots for after Christmas. The whole system is actually getting through the population more quickly than in most of the rest of Europe, but it feels painfully slow.LostPassword said:
Yeah, I don't really want to wait until January for my booster in these circumstances.MaxPB said:
Not to hand, but I remember seeing that's where all three vaccines did pretty well, efficacy against death was into the 90s and hospitalisations above 90 for Pfizer and Moderna, above 85 for AZ, even with some efficacy waning we're looking at maybe 70-80% for each against hospitalisation which will go up with the booster shot.Leon said:
Do we have data for hospitalisations and deaths amongst the Vaxxed versus Beta? That seems criticalMaxPB said:Here's the beta efficacy stats vs delta:
Moderna 85% delta, 60% beta
Pfizer 60% delta, 50% beta
AZ 40% delta, 30% beta
These numbers are from real world observation for delta and trial data for beta and relate to infection of any kind (including asymptomatic) with two doses of vaccine separated by 4 weeks for Moderna and AZ and 3 weeks for Pfizer in the beta trial and real world data for delta.
If it just gives everyone a bad cold, fine. If it crushes the NHS, not so fine
Binding efficiency for beta isn't as bad as people think, but again, I'm very happy we've done 16m booster shots. It might be time to push the emergency button and lower the gap to 4.5 months to bring all over 40s into the booster shot funnel and most over 30s.
If hurrying up the administration of the boosters is the primary aim of the exercise then quite why the gap is still in place, God alone knows.
If it reduced to, say four months we're all looking at three boosters a year rather than two. People will get vaccine-weary.0 -
Why are we recruiting from France for the Ranger unit?moonshine said:
2 mins if that on Sky about it. With the concluding remark that the flight ban is really shit for people with family in South Africa so close before Christmas. They’re now showing a happy looking Alsatian in the new army Ranger division.Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow0 -
The idea that we can meaningfully impact vaccination rates of seven billion people is ridiculous. Especially when we need 3 or 4 jabs a pop.DavidL said:
That's what they said on News at 10 on the BBC. I am not sure how many of the infections are sequenced in SA though. I don't think that anyone on the planet is doing as many as us.Leon said:
I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps that means tests properly sequenced. SA today reports 2,400 cases or so, and it is thought 70-100% of them are Nu. There is no other reason for this sudden surge - doubling approximately every dayDavidL said:Only 59 cases identified. This virus is the most closely and rapidly examined in human history. We can only draw some hope from that.
What this alarm, which will hopefully not amount to anything, shows is that any delusions about fortress UK are just that. We need to step up and make a material contribution to vaccinating the world and reducing the depth of the pools of infection where these new variants can so easily develop.0 -
way to sound like a boring crank. WTF is a covid denier, and who here actually is one?londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.
2 -
Precisely. Reporting of the situation with cases lacks nuance, because nuance would mitigate against panic and reduce the attention garnered by these daily doom reports.turbotubbs said:
Case rise is still mostly in the unvaccinated children. @Malmesbury helpfully posts this up every day. In older, booster groups cases are declining. Admissions are down from over 1000 a day, to below 800. In hospital numbers are 2000 down from the recent peak. Things look like they are going in the right direction.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
Cases in the over-60s are currently in decline (a fact probably not entirely unrelated to the progress of the booster campaign.) Cases in children are still increasing, but everybody save for the most extreme doom merchants has long since ceased to care about cases in children. Even the teaching unions appear to have given up banging the drum for masks and other countermeasures in classrooms. Again, we've had panic clickbait headlines for months about how cases in children might translate into a tidal wave of sick grandparents, and no such thing has happened.1 -
Jane Merrick
@janemerrick23
BREAKING: I understand South Africa will be placed on the U.K. red list due to the rise in cases of the “super variant”
Hurrah!!!1 -
I think you are talking 'moonshine' there. Wake up and see what's happening.moonshine said:
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.0 -
Zemmour is going to have to start doing better if R4 are to sustain their in-depth hystericising over him all the the way to next April. Mind you the mileage they got out of AfD floating about on 12%..HYUFD said:
He has fallen back a bit.Andy_JS said:The Spectator has done an interview with French presidential candidate Éric Zemmour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5lw4VeKpo
Latest poll for 1st round
Macron 25%
Le Pen 20%
Bertrand 13%
Zemmour 12%
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1463958360550785027?s=201 -
Yeah, sheeple, smell the coffee.londonpubman said:
I think you are talking 'moonshine' there. Wake up and see what's happening.moonshine said:
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.0 -
But that's just it, surely Corbyn wasn't offering anything fresh and interesting to someone who had been a voter back in the 70s and 80s, since while in actuality there were plenty of policy differences, his whole schtick was 'I have kept my principles unchanged for 40 years'?Farooq said:
It's not odd. Corbyn was offering something fresh and interesting. It's just... it also came with something stale and discredited too. The man has two sides to him, and it's hard to see them both at once.kle4 said:
He is, which is also a bit odd as he's been everything from Tory to LD to OMRLP and everything between in the past, so fervour was not expected. His wife is an even bigger Corbyn fan - visiting the saturday after GE2019 was an...interesting time I can tell you.Farooq said:
Is he also a Corbyn fan? There's a bit of a correlation between the two in my experience.kle4 said:
My father believes that one. Apparently there is the will and skill to undertake such a phony operation, and cover it up with all the people who would need to be involved, but it'd just be far too inconvenient to have it happen more than a few miles from Porton Down to allay suspicion.Farooq said:
It's for reasons like this that some find it hard to really know what's true or not. I mean, some people were saying the Salisbury attacks might be related to Porton Down rather than Russia.turbotubbs said:
It’s clearly a possibility, but by no means certain. My wife works at Porton Down (currently UKHSA, previously DSTL). Lots of very nasty stuff, with lots of precautions in place, and yet things do go wrong. I know stories about failures in nerve agent protocols and subsequent effects on staff that are not for the faint hearted. There is also the proven leaks from U.K. sites of e.g foot and mouth from Purbright. Almost impossible to know the truth.Leon said:
Yes, it's a kind of specialised madness. Very odd. Not entirely dissimilar to some of the crazier Remoaner reactions to Brexitmoonshine said:
I still meet smart people in real life who become viscerally angry if you raise the idea that it might have come from the Wuhan lab. Like their brains can’t handle it. Refuse to accept there’s even a debate to be had about it. Quite interesting to behold.Leon said:
Humanised mice is what the Wuhan lab was using to GoF engineer the virus, in the first place. Thanks for that, guysmoonshine said:
“Humanised mice”. That sounds terribly exotic. How does that work?MaxPB said:
It will be a few weeks at least because efficacy will be modelled from antibody binding in humanised mice infected with the new variant.Leon said:The news of The Nu is gonna blow every other story out of the window. Even the awful drownings
The world is waiting for the vax results. Like a clock ticking to a potentially apocalyptic explosion
I confess I am not sure what it means for the Greens in Bexley and Sidcup
What a pity we live in interesting times
He's gotten really into conspiracy theories as he's gotten older for some reason.
Corbyn had a relatively engaging, mild manner, and I can understand him seeming fresh to younger voters, but crusty, cynical 70 year olds who weren't fans of that direction previously? Sure, maybe switching to him and the party, but the point of embracing conspiracy theories around the counting of votes on GE night (oh yes)?
Not to traduce the old man too much, he's ok as fathers go, but at times he confounds me.0 -
1) There appears to be a new variant of concern. We know next to nothing about it. Reasonable worst case is it we have to endure a lockdown until adapted vaccines get deployed, which shouldn't take too long.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.
2) The government should do nothing until there is a proven link between this variant and increased rate of hospital admissions. Even then, the response should consider whether admissions will overwhelm the NHS.
Otherwise we shall be in thrall to mini Covid panics for evermore.1 -
Runoff polling shows Macron does worse against Le Pen and Bertrand than Zemmour, so Macron too will be hoping for a Zemmour recoveryTheuniondivvie said:
Zemmour is going to have to start doing better if R4 are to sustain their in-depth hystericising over him all the the way to next April. Mind you the mileage they got out of AfD floating about on 12%..HYUFD said:
He has fallen back a bit.Andy_JS said:The Spectator has done an interview with French presidential candidate Éric Zemmour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5lw4VeKpo
Latest poll for 1st round
Macron 25%
Le Pen 20%
Bertrand 13%
Zemmour 12%
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1463958360550785027?s=200 -
Who had 'bullish' in their by-election bingo card?slade said:While we wait for the local by -elections results I can say that there are bullish comments coming out of the Lib Dem camp in North Shropshire. Their national campaign chief has arrived in the constituency and is staying for a few days. Some canvassers are reporting that the response is better than C and A - but that there are only 3 weeks left rather than 6 weeks.
'Brisk' is not allowed as an option, too obvious.
I like these by-elections as there's so little to go on, as party's can be wildly wrong about their own canvassing (sometimes to their own advantage even), so even 'expected' results are usually at least still up in the air.0 -
One's never 100% sure of anything with this rotten disease, but it looks very much like an accumulation of junking the restrictions, letting it rip through the schools in early Autumn, and the initial head start in mass jabbing oldies and the very vulnerable, which means that most of them have already been boosted. And if you loathe the Government and don't want to give it the credit of anything then you can attribute the decision to drop masks and distancing to the intercession of Whitty and Valance, and their explanation of wanting to get the exit wave over with before Winter.turbotubbs said:
At extreme risk of hubris, but maybe it was right to open up in July, and allow lots of cases? High price in deaths to now, maybe fewer for us in the next few months.pigeon said:
The German per capita case rate is currently following a very steep trajectory with no sign of slowing down. France, with it's additional restrictions, is demonstrating precisely the same pattern, only with a two week delay: German cases took off in mid-October, French ones at the end of the month.BigRich said:In other Covid related new:
German has reputed 76,132 new cases and 315 new deaths, their highest number of new cases in the whole pandemic.
Ireland started going to pot around the beginning of October and is therefore in even worse shape than Germany. The rates in Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands all seem to have started climbing about the same time as Germany but have skyrocketed even faster. Spain and Portugal both seem to be going the way of France, but from a slightly lower base. Rates in Italy currently look as if they're increasing at a less alarming rate, but it's a bit soon to tell.
The UK is an obvious outlier which, as we know, has been exhibiting moderately high but fluctuating infection rates continuously since July.
AIUI a wobbly case rate such as is being seen in the UK at the moment is what one ought to expect from the virus as it finds its endemic level within the population.0 -
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.JohnLilburne said:
Why are we recruiting from France for the Ranger unit?moonshine said:
2 mins if that on Sky about it. With the concluding remark that the flight ban is really shit for people with family in South Africa so close before Christmas. They’re now showing a happy looking Alsatian in the new army Ranger division.Leon said:
This will change. Give it a daymoonshine said:
Almost 20 mins into the News at 10 on Sky. We’re still on dinghies.geoffw said:BBC News showing Macron speaking with a voice-over in English with a heavy French accent. I think they're taking their mission to entertain more seriously than to inform.
It is already THE headline in the Guardian. British TV news is slow0 -
Noo Noo was the vacuum cleaner in the Teletubbies?Leon said:I am happy to report that I am feeling a little better. Tho I have had an enormous gin and tonic and several other painkillers. Perhaps my mini-cytokine storm has passed. Now can everyone please stop hyper-vemtilating about Nu
Which reminds me, my ex girlfriend used to call her naughty bits "my Nunu"
I am not sure of the relevance of this, but I'm just punting it out there1 -
Not smelling the coffee a Covid symptom I think.IshmaelZ said:
Yeah, sheeple, smell the coffee.londonpubman said:
I think you are talking 'moonshine' there. Wake up and see what's happening.moonshine said:
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.4 -
Bollox to Nu
As I’ve said before, the markets do look incredibly optimistic, given the risk of a variant like Nu.0 -
And the panic is in...
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
·
19m
Replying to
@DrEricDing
2) the viral load of these two with #B11529 in Hong Kong hotels were VERY high. PCR Ct values of 18 and 19!!! That’s insanely high considering they were negative on recent PCR tests. Damn, looks like vaccine evasion could be real with this variant.0 -
SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 20182 -
Didn't AZ hit it's 2 billionth dose recently? If we need 3-4 jabs a pop it'll be over a good couple of years, and I somehow doubt third doses will be a major priority in younger developing world inhabitants.Aslan said:
The idea that we can meaningfully impact vaccination rates of seven billion people is ridiculous. Especially when we need 3 or 4 jabs a pop.DavidL said:
That's what they said on News at 10 on the BBC. I am not sure how many of the infections are sequenced in SA though. I don't think that anyone on the planet is doing as many as us.Leon said:
I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps that means tests properly sequenced. SA today reports 2,400 cases or so, and it is thought 70-100% of them are Nu. There is no other reason for this sudden surge - doubling approximately every dayDavidL said:Only 59 cases identified. This virus is the most closely and rapidly examined in human history. We can only draw some hope from that.
What this alarm, which will hopefully not amount to anything, shows is that any delusions about fortress UK are just that. We need to step up and make a material contribution to vaccinating the world and reducing the depth of the pools of infection where these new variants can so easily develop.
We may not get the world done in quite the same way as we get the West done, but we can certainly manage a 'meaningful contribution'.1 -
Good for our Aaronbigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 20181 -
Egypt has cheap generic drugs in use unlike Israel next door.turbotubbs said:
Vaccines DO stop people catching and passing on Covid. If they didn’t then why is R in the Uk around 1 with virtually no restrictions (especially England)? Don’t confuse not being 100% with not working at all. Israel is highly vaccinated and has few cases currently.rural_voter said:
The 'vaccines' are 'leaky' and don't stop a person catching the disease or passing it on. For the first 2-3 wks immunity may be lower than in an unvaccinated person. After maybe 5-6 months of elevated immunity, they're again useless.turbotubbs said:
Israel data looks great now post boosters. We’re not far behind. I suspect tonight is a cautious wobble that won’t come to much, but we will see.Heathener said:
But not that bit when you said, and I quote, 'we've got this virus beat.'Leon said:
Actually I'm not having a go. Six months back I too thought we were going to smash it. Then I began to see the data from Israel and I realised that we weren't at all, that we were in fact still facing a god-almighty battle.
Two more years of this I reckon, with downs and ups along the way. A tough winter ahead I fear.
Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on earth. Egypt has a low COVID rate and seems to have a vaccination rate of ... 13%.
If you're in a deep political hole, stop digging and look to your neighbours ... if they're not also in a hole.
There's also a talk by John Campbell 'miracle in Japan'. What could have reduced COVID to almost zero, unlike Israel?
As to Japan, there is evidence that Asian populations have ore-existing levels of immunity not seen elsewhere.
I don’t know why I bother to reply, all we really need is some worming medication, right?
The fact that the products aim to reduce the severity of the disease but don't stop people catching and passing it on was in the small print. (I don't call that a vaccine, and their mechanism differs from those in the past. But I digress.)
I suggest reading some sceptic websites, of which there are many good ones, e.g. DS. Lots of links from there. Also the BMJ is pretty good, including Prof. Peter Doshi who gave a statement to Senator Johnson's enquiry (USA).
It's fairly widely thought that England had enough periods of normal life for most unvaccinated people who were still susceptible to catch the disease. That gives immunity for a very long period, i.e. a good thing. Sweden is probably better off still.0 -
Lab hold in Halton.1
-
Indeed it is. I didn't quite lose my sense of taste, but coffee was just a warm, brown fluid.Theuniondivvie said:
Not smelling the coffee a Covid symptom I think.IshmaelZ said:
Yeah, sheeple, smell the coffee.londonpubman said:
I think you are talking 'moonshine' there. Wake up and see what's happening.moonshine said:
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.0 -
Massive result for the Tories on Aaron's patch
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 20180 -
GN all 👍0
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The more useless of a cnut SKS is the more hopelessly dcikless fcuking twats you lot are in not displacing him in favour of someone you fancy. Loser.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Hope that helps.0 -
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?1 -
Of course we cannot do it on our own. But we can make a material contribution with the base that we have built up in this country. Its in our interests and their interests too. I really cannot think of a better use of our aid budget right now.Aslan said:
The idea that we can meaningfully impact vaccination rates of seven billion people is ridiculous. Especially when we need 3 or 4 jabs a pop.DavidL said:
That's what they said on News at 10 on the BBC. I am not sure how many of the infections are sequenced in SA though. I don't think that anyone on the planet is doing as many as us.Leon said:
I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps that means tests properly sequenced. SA today reports 2,400 cases or so, and it is thought 70-100% of them are Nu. There is no other reason for this sudden surge - doubling approximately every dayDavidL said:Only 59 cases identified. This virus is the most closely and rapidly examined in human history. We can only draw some hope from that.
What this alarm, which will hopefully not amount to anything, shows is that any delusions about fortress UK are just that. We need to step up and make a material contribution to vaccinating the world and reducing the depth of the pools of infection where these new variants can so easily develop.0 -
If you want panic, Dr Ding is your manrottenborough said:And the panic is in...
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
·
19m
Replying to
@DrEricDing
2) the viral load of these two with #B11529 in Hong Kong hotels were VERY high. PCR Ct values of 18 and 19!!! That’s insanely high considering they were negative on recent PCR tests. Damn, looks like vaccine evasion could be real with this variant.0 -
Not as surprising as you may think. The winning candidate used to hold this seat as UKIP.Pulpstar said:Massive result for the Tories on Aaron's patch
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 20180 -
Don't let the covid deniers bite.londonpubman said:GN all 👍
0 -
25.8% swing surely??HYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?1 -
The only one I really fear is the Epping variant.HYUFD said:
May as well take every plan you have for every year for the rest of your life and chuck it in the bin.Leon said:"Johnson has always caveated his comments when he is asked about Christmas – roughly once a week – that new variants could throw plans off course. Now the worst news has come from South Africa – a variant that is feared to be more transmissible and has the potential to evade immunity."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/action-over-variant-shows-government-keen-to-avoid-christmas-calamity-of-2020
Take every plan you had for 2022, and chuck it in the bin
As if it is not the Botswana and South Africa variant, the next year it will be the Peru variant, the year after it will be the Egyptian variant etc. Every time we get a variant which is a bit more transmissible in fact.
Unless it proves completely vaccine resistant we cannot lockdown again, otherwise if we do I think on and off and on again lockdowns will be with us indefinitely and that could wipe out most of the hospitality and retail industry for good3 -
Indeed. In spades. He makes Dr Pagel look zen.Pulpstar said:
If you want panic, Dr Ding is your manrottenborough said:And the panic is in...
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
·
19m
Replying to
@DrEricDing
2) the viral load of these two with #B11529 in Hong Kong hotels were VERY high. PCR Ct values of 18 and 19!!! That’s insanely high considering they were negative on recent PCR tests. Damn, looks like vaccine evasion could be real with this variant.0 -
Maybe wait for more results before getting too excitedHYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?0 -
I dunno. I might go out on a limb here and proffer the vague possibility that some local factor is involved when you get those kinds of swings.HYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?1 -
Lab gain in Allerdale.3
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You're talking hyperbolic BS as usual.londonpubman said:
I think you are talking 'moonshine' there. Wake up and see what's happening.moonshine said:
“Covid deniers”. And so starts your nuanced and fact based argument.londonpubman said:
Agreed. I see the COVID deniers on here who normally jump up and down on me at this stage of the evening aren't doing so today. They know.Heathener said:
But this isn't clickbait https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-coronavirus-variant-b-1-1-529-identified-in-botswana-as-scientists-play-down-concerns-12478164pigeon said:
Worst ever, panic panic panic panic panic!!!Heathener said:
That is interesting.MaxPB said:Interesting, Portion Down is getting samples of the Nu to run antibody binding efficiency tests and efficacy modelling. We should have answers on vaccine efficacy dilution pretty soon.
The Daily Mail reckon they already have the answer and it's not pretty: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Fucking covid.
Excuse the language.
It's clickbait. Ignore.
I know that people wish it were not so but the situation is far from rosy even without this new variant. Cases have been steadily rising (9.5% for example in the last week) and there's plenty of evidence that boosters are essential. We're starting to see breakthrough infections of the double vaccinated.
What's really good though is that this time the Government have ignored those who, eighteen months ago, came out with mocking 'panic, panic, panic' posts only to be proved very stupid as covid swept through.
Tough times still lie ahead. I wish it were not so.
I wish it wasn't the case. But we have to be realistic.
Covid is real, nobody sane denies it. There aren't any Covid deniers on this site.
But there are a great number of people who quite rightly recognise that Covid is going to be with us forever and we need to live with it.
We can't put our heads in the sand, lock ourselves down and wait for it to go away. It isn't going anywhere. Its here, live with it.1 -
Halton Castle Ward (Halton) Council By-Election:
LAB: 60.3% (+7.9)
GRN: 18.9% (+18.9)
IND: 11.1% (-7.2)
CON: 7.3% (-10.6)
LDM: 2.4% (-8.9)
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2021.
SKS Rools OK0 -
And so, we move swiftly on from catastrophising over lockdowns and even the end of civilisation, based entirely on reports of the umpteenth new Covid variant of which we know almost nothing, to extrapolating the present political leanings of a large part of the nation from the results of one local authority by-election.HYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?
Incredible. Literally.3 -
pigeon said:
And so, we move swiftly on from catastrophising over lockdowns and even the end of civilisation, based entirely on reports of the umpteenth new Covid variant of which we know almost nothing, to extrapolating the present political leanings of a large part of the nation from the results of one local authority by-election.HYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?
Incredible. Literally.
Julia Hartley-Brewer
@JuliaHB1 Here we go again, folks0 -
It is a Thursday night in November, not much else to get excited aboutpigeon said:
And so, we move swiftly on from catastrophising over lockdowns and even the end of civilisation, based entirely on reports of the umpteenth new Covid variant of which we know almost nothing, to extrapolating the present political leanings of a large part of the nation from the results of one local authority by-election.HYUFD said:
First post Peppa Pig gate by election and a 25% swing from Labour to the Conservatives.bigjohnowls said:SKS fans please explain
Knutton (Newcastle-under-Lyme) by-election result:
CON: 51.1% (+25.8)
LAB: 48.9% (-25.8)
Conservative GAIN from Labour.
Chgs. w/ 2018
Anyone still arguing Boris's speech bombed in the RedWall?
Incredible. Literally.0 -
Halton was Labour even in 2019 though, Twigg won it with a 41% majoritybigjohnowls said:Halton Castle Ward (Halton) Council By-Election:
LAB: 60.3% (+7.9)
GRN: 18.9% (+18.9)
IND: 11.1% (-7.2)
CON: 7.3% (-10.6)
LDM: 2.4% (-8.9)
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2021.
SKS Rools OK0 -
Con-IND swing to Green.bigjohnowls said:Halton Castle Ward (Halton) Council By-Election:
LAB: 60.3% (+7.9)
GRN: 18.9% (+18.9)
IND: 11.1% (-7.2)
CON: 7.3% (-10.6)
LDM: 2.4% (-8.9)
Labour HOLD.
Changes w/ 2021.
SKS Rools OK
Must be a vote in favour of Germany's new traffic light coalition or something.1
This discussion has been closed.